BEL PRIESTLEY: TRANS WOMEN AREN'T THE PROBLEM

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1:12Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Lang, and this is Great Company.

1:21Well, hello. Hello. Hello. Hi there. Hi there. I, um, again. Yep. Last week, obviously, I started the show off one, two. Yeah, I heard that. And then today, I listened to that song again. Okay. And the song is H-O-T-T-O. This is actually so embarrassing. And I was thinking this. As in Chapel Rhone song. Chapel Rhone. Okay. And I, Hot To Go. And I was cycling in and I thought, maybe we could do another. So you're going to try and you're going to sing something for this one. And I think it could be. Do you know what we typically, we normally do before we do this? Yeah. Is you plan this off, Mike, and then you bring it.

1:57to Mike. Oh yeah, this is just my musings coming out my brain. Okay, alright. Where else would they be coming out if it's not my brain? My arse actually. Quite a lot of these ideas do come out my arse. Right, you ready? Yes. PJ, PJ, owls, let's go. Because I'm producer, I'm your presenter, Jamie, and you guys are our owls. And I thought, maybe I won't do it in an intro, but maybe I'll just call across the office when we come downstairs. I'll go, Oi, PJ, PJ, owls, let's go. I thought you said crawl across the office. also crawl across the office. Oh my God. So that's what you want to do at the beginning?

2:32Yeah, or just see, I don't know. Are we going to do it? Have we done it? Is that it? I don't know. I feel like that. I'm immediately... I'm sweating. Well, hey, listen. Hi and welcome. My name's producer Jemima. This is Jemima. I'm Jamie, the host. By the way, I want to give you Jemima a shout out quickly. Jemima also produces another show. Yeah. under our wonderful company Jampot and it's Paloma Faith's show, Mad Sad Bad and you had a very big guest on that show which I'm very jealous of a humongous guest and it's out on the 3rd of June so guys, keep an eye out we're back, Series 2 is back with the most enormous bang can we tease who it is?

3:14no, what's your tease going to be? no, you're going to quote something I'm not going to say who it is anyway, I'm just very proud of you Jemima because it was a big, big Hollywood A-list a guest and that doesn't that's it that's enough but anyway it's uh plomathase show is launching on the 3rd of june very exciting with a huge guest and it's coming back for series two cannot wait for that just you're great hey today's guest oh well wonderful you know so our guest belle priestly yes you know belle you've interviewed belle before i know belle i've interviewed belle before belle is a trans woman she's an actor she's a tiktoker she was in the netflix series heart stop her and uh bell is a really interesting person for so many reasons she's she's quite young 21 yeah but incredibly mature today's episode is kind of a really important one because the supreme court has ruled in the uk that trans women are no longer considered biological women And so for someone like Belle, who her whole life has felt like a woman, now according to law, she's not meant to feel that way.

4:27It's a really big topic. And if you're listening to this now, and you may agree with the points today and the thought process, you may not agree with them. You may be sit on the fence. It's a really important thing to understand. and understand it from a point of view that perhaps you wouldn't hear from. So Belle has come on to discuss that with us. Absolutely. And like what you're saying, just because it doesn't directly impact you, it does still impact you. Because the issues for people who are being marginalised and being suppressed and voices being taken away, the implication of that is so much bigger.

5:09I think it's one of those things that we all feel a bit nervous to talk about. If we're not going through it ourselves, we don't really know what we can say. We feel like we're maybe a bit clumsy at times. But I think that's like a huge issue around it is that people don't feel, because they're scared of saying the wrong thing and they're going to get told off, that they just go, well, I'm just not going to engage with it. And like I say, it's important to engage with because it does affect us. It does completely. Okay, so should we go into this? Yes. Right, before we start as well, if you do like our podcast, our show, please subscribe to it there's been a number of you that have subscribed but there are lots of you listening now who also haven't subscribed already and I can tell you this it does us so many favours if you click that button I cannot tell you so if you can do that that would be amazing you can follow us on social media, we're on YouTube at Great Company Podcast and also you can send us an email greatcompany at jamberproductions.co.uk ok, you ready for this?

6:02let's go please enjoy this episode of Great Company with Belle Priestley hi I'm Belle Priestley and I'm in great company.

6:16Bels, you're going on a date later? Yeah, I'm quite nervous. I'm back into the dating scene. On dates, I'm really awkward. Are you? I'm quite an awkward dater. Let's role play. Here we go. Oh God, okay. Okay, here we go, right? So we're on a date, okay? Right. Hey. Hi. Good. You okay? How are you? Yeah, I'm good. Once I get past that point, I'm like, um that'll be fine i just i've had like a i'm just excited to get back into the dating this absolute nightmare oh really yeah what happened we just ended up being a bit transphobic about like eight months into the relationship yeah it was so bad when the whole like uh women's only gym thing happened yeah um he was saying like he was like it's such a good thing like women claiming their spaces i went all right and then also i was at it was like International Women's Day and I was like you know he put on a story like celebrate your woman like make her feel special I thought it's my time to shine yeah no text no call and then I got it got to the end of the day and I was like oh like hi it's me hello and he was like yeah sorry I didn't think it applied to you because you're trans like you know it's just like celebrating like natural women I went

7:30we've actually had a conversation before you and I and it was great and so with you today I want to, like, I want to, like, pretend, always pretend that conversation hasn't happened. So I want to start again of, like, who you are for people who don't know. Obviously, so many people know exactly who you are. And also talk about your life. But also, look, I suppose from my side, I'm like a privileged, like, white male man. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, especially with the new law changes, it could be easier for me just to ignore it. Yeah, I think that, yeah, it's... a lot of people are speaking up, which is nice.

8:07Which is really nice. And for me, like I care about injustice. I care about if people are feeling suppressed, I care about that. But I also want to just make sure that if I say anything clumsy or I say anything stupid, we're friends. So you can just tell me to shut up or you can correct me or whatever it is. So that wasn't me crying. That was just a bubble in my throat. Is that okay? Is that a deal? Yeah, of course. A hundred percent. Because there's a lot going on at the moment Yeah No, it's intense It's definitely been an interesting couple of weeks And it just keeps unfolding Which is like the bit that is crazy So should we Why don't we hit Before we understand who you are Should we just hit the bullseye?

8:48Yeah Because the Supreme Court has Basically they ruled that Legally Trans women are now seen as men So basically trans women aren't women In the eyes of the law But it was an act done by the Supreme Court which the government didn't necessarily need to take so to see the way I understand it is the government could have like taken it as like they can act upon it how they want to and I think it's kind of given the government leeway to do what they want now which is to sort of like it's good trans women from certain spaces and um so stuff like toilets and stuff and women's changing rooms etc but it kind of becomes like it's one thing that everyone's talking about which I think which I think is important to mention it's just kind of it's kind of deep-reated misogyny because no one's talking about trans men it's all about trans women and um it just means that it's going to become a lot of like who looks the most feminine who looks the most cis because there's a lot of women that don't look like you know i might look more cis to like a cis woman like it's it's and when you say cis what do you mean by that this is just like someone that's basically born the gender that they are so it's but also i love how online people like don't call me sis it's but it's like a word from i think it's like a latin word it's been around for like thousands of years like no one's calling you a slur like you're fine um so yeah basically it just it's gonna become a bit of a interesting situation right yeah it's how do you police it how do you police it and and the thing is you're so right it's interesting that you talk about misogyny there because no one is talking about trans no and so that's then i know because then you say like oh well trans men will have to go into women's spaces and then and people are like no obviously not like they're men so it's like but but trans women aren't women because you're not letting them into women's spaces so it doesn't really add up um and like health care is getting harder like it's just it's going a little bit downhill and like also i think people are following suit from america and like i think now new zealand is now like following suit of other uk's doing it's all just a bit like much when i saw i saw it and I was um I was pretty shocked right by the whole thing because it feels like we've we've kind of really progressive and we've taken steps back in a really sort of peculiar way and then I saw your TikTok yeah that you did which was I was really debating posting that I think like it was just my I was actually going to an event and I was on the tube and I saw the ruling because I knew it was happening um but I didn't know we obviously were waiting for the outcome um as my other friend who was trans we just both kind of just in shock and then i got to this event and you know you you almost get more sad because you have to put on like a brave face oh yeah i'm fine like and i got to the toilet and i was like no i actually like i literally just burst out crying and the video actually was from i was explaining on my private story what was happening and then i started like obviously i got quite upset um and i think with this whole situation when i when the whole like women's only gym thing happened i did a big like five minute video explaining i wasn't emotional in it I was explaining like statistically what's happening and you know what this means and whatever and I got ridiculed anyway so I actually don't have any words to like describe how I'm feeling because I'm so fed up of this situation um and yeah I posted I mean it's quite nearly 20 million views which is like ridiculous you post a video basically you just looking incredibly emotional yeah and it was just writing across the screen just explaining what you were feeling and I saw it because obviously we follow each other and we know each other but also it was trending number one yeah which is scary it is scary yeah and and it's scary because what happens is I suppose viewers then then people look to you as a spokesperson and that's like a lot of pressure that maybe you do or don't want yeah I think to be fair since a young age I've kind of I was one of the first sort of trans people on TikTok in the UK to a certain degree as I've always felt a pressure to kind of make sure that I'm explaining the right narrative and I hold myself to such a high account because I know that I'm the first impression of like a trans person to a lot of people so how I act is dependent it will affect how people see trans women so I've always been really careful of what I say and how I act so it's it does get scary when as I get older the more people see me and the more people watch like like nine too many people is what like a third of the UK it's crazy that's terrifying it's really terrifying look I mean also I just I think we should take a step back and understand like you as a person right as well which I really want to know and like I already know it but I think our listeners are gonna it because you're you've had a really pretty topsy-turvy life yeah it's been so when you spoke about the fact that last year was a lot of yeah and you probably mentally went to maybe a dark place I by the way I get that because I think throughout your life you've had to protect yourself yeah in lots of ways from bullying and everything and I think same ways that I think a lot of us do and especially me is that when you're in the firing line yeah you're just you've got the shield yeah you're just kind of and you're working you're busy and like you've got the next event and the next event and it's like you don't really have time to think about it and slowly what happens is subconsciously it breaks you down yeah and then it's about three four maybe five six months later that's when it hits you yeah and you don't understand why you're feeling that way yeah and you're like why do I feel anxious why do I feel sad why is my brain not working the way it isn't because all of the historical things have happened so they hit you at once exactly because that's what i found because i i kind of i got like school was really rough and then i left school and then started social media and then it's i mean i'm only 20 i'm only 21 so it's like i i left school what like four or five years ago where did you grow up bell i grew up in leighton buzzard they got fucking in shit i have to say that because it's close to milton keen's i tell people milton keen's they all give me like the dirtiest looks i'm like i'm actually not from it's like down the road um yeah i grew up in like buckinghamshire parents were together yeah my parents together till i was 13 and then um they divorced yeah well i was like transitioning at time so like my parents they were they were gonna stay together till i was 18 and then my dad love him like love him to pieces now but when i was younger he found it really hard me being trans so just i think it's a big shock i think you can still love someone so much but obviously you've he's grown up my dad's like a football guy like he loves cricket um cricket's like not the most manly spot like sorry if you play cricket i'm sure he loves cricket yeah yeah don't let that like no toxic masculinity it's not exactly like um and uh so i think for him it was a big it was it wasn't a shock because i think it was you know the closet was glass but i think um it was still a big thing for him to process i think seeing his like his son slowly become more feminine and wearing makeup like he found it really hard so i think he knew that for me to sort of become who i wanted to be he had to sort of take a step away which meant he was they were going to divorce anyway they weren't they weren't very happy um but they're going to do it after so i left it went to uni or whatever um but that was sort of the timing i ended up being which i had to do with that and then also like obviously school which was horrendous were you an only child yeah do I give off only child energy?

16:18I don't think you do actually that's what I was putting like I don't think you what is only child energy do we think? the only way I say because also if you're not only do and look I don't want to put words in your mouth right but not only did you probably growing up feel alone in society right but also not having any siblings around that's also alone you don't have anyone to communicate with or talk to apart from your parents because I move schools a lot because I was bullied since I was five so but I'm so like desensitized to it partly because I haven't processed it I think um what do you mean just hang on just like yeah explain it for someone who is sitting like listening to this right now right who because I want to I want to go to the bad yeah then I also want to flip to the good yeah to make sure what do you mean you were bullied at five well I just I was always it got really bad in upper school but when I was younger I never really fit in because I also I think looking back it's quite sad really like looking back I always wanted to be a girl um I think I just didn't have the work also it wasn't a thing this is why I get so angry at people when they say we should be taught in schools it's because like if that happened to me like if I know about in school I'd be in such a different place to where I am now um but yeah I think it was just a situation of like didn't really fit in didn't really want to do the boy things the girls also was like who the fuck is this bloke like not leaving us alone um so it was kind of like i just was on my own a lot and then the boys were quite horrible to me so i moved schools when i was seven which is a bad time to move because i i joined a new school halfway through the sort of four-year situation and then no one wanted to be friends with me there because i was i was like an odd kid um not odd i just didn't really fit in you were you were confused like an individual, right?

18:09Which is like, and if you, again, I don't want to put words in my mouth, but it feels like if you're, as kids, we just want to fit in. Yeah. That's all we want. That's the thing, I used to play football. Like, I was a defender. I was cracking though. Do you know what? It's a real shame they banned us from all the sports because I really could have gone pro. Like, you know, could have seen me in like the lionesses or something. What was her name? Jill Scott? marching down the pitch love the lions big up the reds yeah don't know any football terminology so don't catch me but that's how so you had to move school and just just just talk me through just understand what the bullying was like was it just name calling what was it yeah i think well when i was younger it was just sort of name calling and not being allowed in like groups and stuff so i got quite used to that like but it got really bad um i'd say when i came out as gay it was okay because i was still in the middle school how old is that like some where i'm from it's like lower school upper school lower school middle school upper school so it's like four different like three different schools which so i know a lot of people do it so it's like year one to year six and year seven to 12 but mine was like year one to four five to eight and then nine to twelve and and my nine to my like upper school that was really bad because i i made friends in middle school and I was like I was gay in camp and then I went to a bigger school like double the size where it's like all these kids from like the local area we went to and obviously it was such a big shock to the system for them because I was really the only like out like gay kid in my area really yeah that was like that was quite feminine anyway um yeah and then I'd say it was I had friends in year nine but then when I came out as trans it was like it was um yeah it was it was just a lot like it was do you find it hard to talk about I can talk about it it's it's just one of the situations like it's the only way I can describe it it was like this constant like it was one of the situations where I was so like subhuman to everyone um and it was anyone could do anything to me and it'd be fine um like even the teachers were that would like dead name me at school and I used to always like argue to like be in the women's toilets and I used to like go through like arguments with teachers all the time and I had like my nudes leaked multiple times people spat on me like it was like it was genuinely like the worst and I also I think this is what makes people like I never talk about it because I also don't want to sound like a sub story but it's like it was luckily like I don't know like I didn't do anything crazy but um yeah like it was horrendous like so bad like and people would like I was I didn't want to like be here like it was horrendous like it was just like no it's fine it's not like it's like I'm happy I'm fine now I know you are but also like it's it's so like I can even almost like feel yourself like trying to defend yourself now because you feel like I I wanted like I I almost want to and this I don't know what, I almost want to go to that younger person and like hug you and say it's okay.

21:27And this is like when you're in a situation like that and you're going through something so awful and you've already come out as gay, which is brave enough. That is incredibly brave already, especially in an area that no one's come out as gay. And then you then want to transition as well. And you're going through that and then you're going through all those things. Yeah. you have every right to say that you were feeling shit and it's not a sob story you you are you kidding me like one million percent and you should almost just like accept that was a moment in time but it's so scary when you're in that moment you don't think there's an end to it yeah this is like what worries me now of kids like in school seeing the news because it's like they're gonna think how i felt which was like it's not gonna get better which i'm like lucky also like you know a lot of my job aspirations happened and i'm very grateful but i don't know where i'd be now if it wasn't for my career um i had luke evans on yeah i don't know why i pointed that he's not behind me yeah yeah i just got luke evans he's so cool yeah but he um when he was on the podcast he uh he experienced like terrible bullying but he knew that it was going to there was an end to it and I think sometimes when you're in a job or relationship or you're in a mental health situation the hardest thing is to think this is going to pass and you've got to always think that it's going to be okay you just got to get through these moments I think also because it was like even my friends it was like everyone around me your friends turned on you well my friends wouldn't like I was seen as like not like really like they didn't want to be near me so i used to like eat lunch by myself and um like at prom like i was like made to go by myself um yeah i'm in my first um non-school uniform day as like a trans girl um and i wore this i was like i saved all my money and my mum bought me this like really nice outfit it was a twint of twofold looking back it was fucking shocking but like red clots it was really bad um but I was like so happy and so like just whatever I went to school and literally everyone mocked me the whole day and my friendship group were like being really horrible and like just allowing it and yeah it was bad and even like one girl she went my phone and this is like a few weeks after she went on my phone found these like explicit pictures of me and like sent them to herself and then sent them to school like and she was my friend in my friendship group um and that it like yeah it was just I think they I'm looking now I'm older I'm like maybe they just didn't want to be the ones to be bullied so maybe they were the ones like making sure that I constantly had things to like it was like every week it's like a new thing that happened to me or like a new someone like would join the school and they wouldn't understand the situation would be horrible like you know so i think maybe they just were like self-defense i don't know but it was like it was not sometimes just i mean it feels just like kids are just assholes sometimes yeah yeah and i don't know as well to be fair because when you and i promise you we will get to the light bit i promise i'm happy to talk about it i never talk about it it's just just for me it's so important firstly i think for you it's important but also i cannot tell you the amount of people that you are going to be helping.

25:01By speaking about this and seeing the position you are in now and all the success you've had at such a young age, people are going to go, well, if she can do that, then I can do that. And that's what's so important.

25:15When you are younger and you are a boy, but you feel like you're a girl, what does that feel like? For me, it was never really... When you're young, you can only put it into situations of like, you want to hang out with the girls, do you want to have long hair you want because that's obviously what you don't so you're just kind of you don't really know what's going on like you just want to be exactly what the girls are doing who the girls are with and you don't really feel comfortable wearing boy clothes and you want to play with girls things and that's how like it starts off well that's how it started off with me anyway um very simple things but I think because it was so ingrained in me that I couldn't do that and I couldn't like whether you kind of put it to the back of your mind that's well that's what I did anyway because I think that that just shows depends on your parents like I think some parents like oh yeah you can do that and I think that obviously opens up a broader conversation but I think if you kind of push it away it kind of it went to the back of my head um and then for me when I when I sort of found out what what being trans was um it was like you find that out it's just online like I didn't know what it was really I literally like it I didn't know what it was it wasn't until like monroe burgdorff did like her like pierce morgan gmb situation or this woman called like nikita dragon she was like back in the jeffrey star days i was like like like youtube youtube um she was on i was like oh god this girl's so pretty and they were talking about being trans oh my god she was that's no way um and i came out straight away because it was like a sort of jigsaw it's like a little puzzle piece like finally and i was like this makes so much sense because i was straight away yeah straight away like to my parents like because it like i was already wearing makeup and like but it was never enough like i always wanted to be a girl and i was like oh this makes so much sense and then you look back and you you sort of realize oh my god like all them years of why i felt like this and why i thought like that and why that upsets me and why i don't like this like all kind of made sense um and it's like it was like a light bulb moment i think it's brave of you to just suddenly come out with it because normally it's one of those nothing else to really lose to be honest but that's what's yeah you're so brave in those situations yeah like normally with the the the bullying and the thing that's going on that would make you go more and more into self and not but you you're constantly what it feels like is you're constantly trying to feel find yourself you'll know your true self and i think i think i'm still doing that now i think like i think because i was online like three years into my transition or four years into my transition and that's still so early on i think it takes it takes like a good like five ten years to like fully start to feel good explain that explain that more to me because well first of all especially when you're so young you have to like wait to get on hormones and then you have to like it takes years for hormones to like properly start to like you see a difference and then you have to get the like i've had so much so much work done since i last was on here but you get like people get like obviously facial feminization surgery or like their voice done or their boobs done or the bottom surgery like it depends on the person but to get all them processes and it takes a long time so it takes you a long time to feel like actually more like a woman if that makes sense yeah it's not just like this is when when people slag off like jenna mulvaney for example who like shared her transition online from day one to however many now and people like well she doesn't look like a woman like when she was in like day 200 like well she's not going to she's transitioned from a man to a woman like you're not gonna look like the fishiest like dull and like that's terminology that you might not understand fish is like fish like she looks like a cis woman um and dull is like what trans girls are called um i can't believe i'm having to explain that to I'm sorry I said fish down and he was like I was just I was just still smiling at you Fish Yeah Yeah No As in You're not going to look Because also If you transition In like your 30s You spent the last 30 years Being a man It's going to take a long time If you decided tomorrow That you're trans Yeah For you to look And act and sound How you want to be And act like how you want to be And look how you want to be It takes ages It's not just going to like Happen overnight So I think Like, this is what worries me.

29:31It's going to discourage people to come out with this whole, like, law situation. Because, like, I didn't use the female's bathroom until I was, like, 17, probably. Did you know? Because if I went out and I knew I wasn't going to pass, I just would, like, put a hat on, like, wear boy clothes. Like, I wouldn't, like, because you just, because also I was always, like, I didn't want to, I didn't want the stress of that happening. Of course you wouldn't. Yeah. The, you started transitioning when you were 13, right? Yeah. And so then that's this sort of process that you have to go through. Again, being naive, is it expensive?

30:07Can you use the NHS? Do you have to go private? How does it all work? So with the whole situation with the NHS now, it's different. Like you can be waiting for like seven years to get your first appointment to go on hormones. So most people go private because it's just, I mean, who's waiting seven years of your life? There's a big thing. I saw a thing online where a doctor was asked about transitioning and doing sort of sex changes and things like that on the NHS. And he said, it's a really beautiful thing because you can't understand the mental damage that is happening to women and men who don't have the ability to transition.

30:43And the suicide rate is so high that actually, would you rather someone take their own life than actually feel comfortable in their own skin? And also because now the government are telling GPs to not, if I went to the GP and said, can I get a blood test? Because I go private for my hormones. They're allowed to say no. Like they're allowed to, because basically the government are not condoning people transitioning really. And I think the same doctor that you're on about said that like the government are basically pushing this narrative, like not to basically help us with our transition. Like a lot of trans women are getting their hormones denied to them.

31:19which also if you've had the surgery that's really not good because obviously you don't have any way of producing hormones so you have to take artificial hormones to survive so it's just a bit of like an interesting situation but it takes like seven years now so you started transitioning at 13 years old you're now 21 yeah so that has been eight years is that right it's been eight years it's been eight years how do you feel in your skin now um do you know what i think it's it's it's interesting because i think if i didn't do my job i'd probably be a lot happier really with myself yeah probably yeah i do get quite i have quite bad low self-esteem i think uh just from like years of hate and stuff no matter how i look i'm always gonna get called a man so or like say like even i got my voice done like i get loads of comments saying oh she sounds fake she sounds this she sounds out like i was so nervous because i have such a sore throat so i was coming out like oh my god i'm gonna get ripped to shreds in this comment section because of the way i sound today even like the video that i posted recently it has like a hundred thousand comments and i'd say probably like 80 of them are hate i think i'd be a lot happier if i didn't do my job but i think also i love my job so it's not like i'm gonna quit anytime soon it's a lot yeah it's a lot But you have to remember that those people who are spending their time Oh yeah, they're absolute losers, don't worry, I know that You do know that, right?

32:46Freaked Yeah, exactly, it really is And you do love your job You're great at your job What you do is brilliant Yeah, but I think obviously because it's ingrained in me since I was like Whenever I transitioned, like the way people treat me in school And then the way people treat me online My brain's not gonna hold myself to like I'm obviously going to think that it's, even though I know it's not personal, like I know the situation, but I think I always put so much pressure on myself to look a certain way or act a certain way because people are going to come at whatever, so you kind of hold yourself to a high regard.

33:18You said there was a time when it got really dark. I've talked about it before, but I think when I was like 18, 19 was really rough. Not last year, but before that it was really bad. I had like issues of like alcohol and other things and I had really bad friendships and I was in a really bad place this is before I got heartstoppers this is like probably six months before I did the original interview with you yeah it was really it was really bad and probably drinking a lot partying a lot yeah I literally was like out every night yeah when I was I can talk about this but I'm not going to go into detail.

34:00Like when I was 18, like at a festival, like,

34:07anything you'd say, we can always, we don't have to put in. I spoke about it online, but like when I was 18 at Reading, I got my, like first time wasn't consensual and I was drugged. So I then spent like a year, this was after everything happened at school and stuff. I was like just had left college um so and I was getting like a lot of hate online so um I I'm so sorry um by the way if you want to cry I cry on this the whole time so you can let it all out don't worry yeah no crying is the big thing can we get some tissues because you crying listen crying thank you so much I cry all the time on this I mean you can't even imagine I'm so sorry no it's it's fine um so I yeah I just like that was like a big self-esteem thing um and it kind of like I just drank away my problems for a long time yeah and then I had like issues with friendship groups and I was in this group that I used to live with and then they kind of all quite horrible so it's literally on my own um and yeah it was really like some nights I was like this is like I'm just gonna whatever that was a tough time because I think like it's it took me years to like go over that and I think I am now luckily I I wasn't like I wasn't conscious when it happened so I'm grateful for that in certain aspects because I don't remember anything so I don't have any like sort of like what's it called a visual stuff to like recover from it's just like how I felt mentally so um yeah do you know what's amazing is that with all of this that you have gone through and it's a lot it's a lot for any human to take it really is you're still a voice of hope for so many people you're pretty amazing human you really are like truthfully right and I think there are so many people out there who um watch you online look you like maybe don't comment the amount of people that are not commenting maybe their daughter or their friend or their son or their um themselves are going through the same thing or dealing with the same stuff and you're that person that's saying this is what i've dealt with this is what i've been through and i'm still here i'm still standing strong i'm still getting through it really it's it's it's beyond amazing i i think but then you know you when you do start going on social media and start talking about it did you kind of find like a place where you could start speaking out and being like oh maybe I have found my crowd my team whoever it is I think it depends on what I talk about and sometimes I go through stages where like I'll be on the for you page a lot so like it's a lot more of an open audience but sometimes I'll go through stages where I'm not like my videos aren't my videos aren't performing as well so I know I can kind of talk about stuff that's a bit more open because it's not gonna be seen by that many people wow so you you monitor it like that yeah so if your videos aren't being seen as much you're like oh I can talk about yeah i wanted yeah but then then i shot myself in the foot with it like with this whole video when it came out last week the last like videos i posted last few months everyone's obviously viewing them and talking about all these things like openly and everyone's seeing that like that i didn't know i'd see that so also i'm not a child like i know that posting anything online like anyone can see it so i share i share less than i used to share i think after like certain situations like reading and i kind of share less now i would like i don't think i'd come online and like i'll do something like this and i'll say how i feel but i don't think i'd like sit and talk about it online like to my followers because i also think a lot of people have shit to deal with your story is fundamentally so important and a lot more important right now and then lots of other people so i think you should share i really think i think you should be scared of sharing i think you in those situations if someone came fine let's let's think about someone who's listening right someone who's listening and perhaps they are going through sort of similar experiences maybe it's bullying or they do want to transition or they're coming out as gay or whatever it is and they want to start talking about it online what advice would you give that person i think it's so interesting because my advice is like don't listen to what people say there you go right like be yourself but you know um i think it's good for people to share their stories i find now with like having a bigger platform you can't really win i think you get this as well yeah if you share your shit if you don't share your shit yeah it's true that's exactly what it's like it's that you kind of always have this moral compass of like how much do i share

38:44are you good at accepting love not at all absolutely not but i just yeah my brain's not used to it but it's just like i don't know i never talk about this it's crazy for me have you ever been in love no do you not um definitely like platonic love but not i wouldn't say like in love in love i think it is it's so hard dating as a trans woman it's something that's not really talked about a lot but it is really difficult explain that to me well i think especially with everything going on but aside from that I think like a lot of men it's still really shunned upon to date a trans woman I think people still think you're gay or think that like you're this or that and you know a lot of guys like are happy to like have a one night stand with me or whatever not that I do that too often anymore I have standards um but people like don't want to date you or don't want to be seen out of you and i think that's a really difficult thing and yeah sort of deal with and you don't have the normal dating experience and that's why you accept like i accepted with that boy such like shit situations because i was like this is it doesn't get better than this and i'm not going to find someone that will treat me the way i'm meant to be treated because it just doesn't have it's not like I'm not meant to have that like you know I don't know if I'll ever get like married or like I'll find someone that you know whatever because I don't know if that's like it's rare for us it's not a situation that happens as often as like would you like to get married yeah I would I would I think like it's so weird like I think if I I always wonder what I'd be like if I was like born as a girl and I think I'd probably have like probably get married really young and like have kids and have a pretty chill life but um yeah I don't know I don't know if that's something that I'm ever gonna have so can I ask a personal question yeah do you ever sometimes think or sometimes go I hope this comes doesn't come across but you just kind of go why why me why why yeah why can I why couldn't I've just been born yeah I think yeah I think especially when I was younger it was really hard because I think you ask yourself like why am I so different to everyone else um yeah I think I I think I stopped after a while though because I think you just kind of get used to it and it is my life like I think you know there's certain things that other people have experienced or other people have that you just becomes part of you like being trans is me I can't change it so I might as well just try and embrace it but I do think it's more now like why do I have to deal with this or why do I have to deal with a guy being like this or why can't I just have this like why can't i just have like i won't probably have like a young love situation you know but because i'm trans um one more personal question i want to ask like just and i hope this is okay you said said occasionally when you had like uh maybe a one night stand or whatever in the morning when you wake up does the does the person then sort of go do they i've had so many situations with guys when they've been really cold after or not spoken to me after um granted again I haven't had like 51 that's not that that's all right I just personally don't get that much I don't anyway um sex positive stuff but that's just not me um I I find that like it's people are fine of it until sometimes they get in that situation when they see me or like whatever happens the next day I find that people just go cold or they take a step back or it's very much like oh yeah just casual baby like they'll try and like ask me on dates and stuff and then whatever happens it's like actually no and then you'll see them again love women but it's they they'll like pie me and then they'll come up with some girl who is like a minger and I'm like okay fair like if that's like it's like it's annoying though because like you sit and think like why can't i like what was wrong with me and obviously shock horror i know what it is but like what why can't like you always end up comparing yourself to these women who you look nothing like um because of a guy who never respected you in the first place like it's just um yeah it's interesting um but i think every girl's had that where like they've really fancied a guy they've gone on a few dates and then the girl that they end up being with you're like fair enough.

43:26Like, do your thing. If you're happy, you're happy. If you're blind, you're blind.

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44:55Heartstopper came around. Yeah. One of the biggest Netflix shows out there. You would have been, how old? You'd be 19? 20? I was 19 when I got out. You were 19? Yeah. What was that experience for you? Oh, it was insane. Like, it changed my life completely. And I love my job, but I want to do bigger things like that. Yeah, I loved it. I mean, it was a great show. I'm very grateful that I did it. What is the response like from it? Yeah, it was insane. It was a lot. that was the time where I felt like people were really proud of me which was nice and I felt really proud of myself which was nice as well what's it like turning off on set for the first day I get I'm if you can tell I've been for a lot get quite anxious I was shitting bricks I was so nervous I had a matcha and it went straight through me and we were on set in this field and I poor poor people there was one toilet and I used it and I was like I'm so sorry and then got to set obviously never been in a Netflix show before as many people haven't and this guy love him so he says we were doing our lines whatever and we got to set ready to do this scene whatever and there was something about a wave I had to do a wave or something and they did it a few times like cut cut and then on the big boom mic in front of about 200 extras it was like Bella can you like do your line like that'd be really appreciative like when we say like go like go like get up I can't remember what it was it was I was like okay that was in front of the whole cast like the whole crew Alice was there she was fucking hell here we go it's a lot yeah it was a lot but I loved it um and I think season three I enjoyed more because I felt more like a part of because obviously you get to set and everyone's got friends from season one and you're kind of like getting into it um but yeah i love it and like obviously i've got hopefully future projects coming up so it should be really fun but i love it but that is amazing there's a big thing which people think which is where sort of and it's sometimes in some circumstances it's really hard to believe it but um especially with yours but everything happens for a reason yeah a hundred percent really yeah i really believe that a hundred percent so you sort of believe that all the hardship that you've been through and all the ups and downs and all the things that happen have led you to the right place yeah i think so i think that's like i mean i'd like to think that and i think also what i went through through school as much as it was awful definitely prepped me for what i want to do because also like you can't get yeah you can't really get worse than what i went through in school so dealing with what i deal with now online i'm like like no offense but like call me all you want because i it's been 10 times worse so like you can't really shock me like yeah there's no shock factor to it like be a bit more creative that would actually make my day a bit more someone did say recently that i look like i take part in like bestiality or something i was like wow this is great like a new one like i'm so happy like a new comment because i was so shocked by it i thought it was great like i was like oh this is cracking but yeah like the whole like bloke comment doesn't really like bother me anymore someone did say yesterday i look like john senior in a dress and i was i was like oh okay like thank you so much for that but like sometimes it makes me laugh like i see the i see the humor in it now i don't really read my comments like you shouldn't read them there's no i don't if someone listening right now right who is maybe experiencing a lot of hate maybe it's at school maybe it's way smaller than ever you did but what coping mechanisms would you say that they should use i think having a support system is so important like it's something that i didn't have in school and i think if i had a support system it would have been a lot better um and like finding your people like you need to find your people in life that understand you and you don't have to put a guard up or be a different person like just being yourself around a good group who really helps and finding your people and also like I find it now online that you can meet friends and you can find a community that's very similar to you because I didn't have that growing up um I think that would have made things a lot easier um and also obviously just ignore people like you have to just keep your head down keep going and just ignore people um because they're not gonna like they're not gonna you can't win and if you can't win with someone there's no point in valuing their opinion do you mean completely like with people that comment it's like if i like transition tomorrow you're still going to think i'm a weirdo so like so i do transition tomorrow you're going to still think i'm odd so i i can't win so there's no point in having a conversation with you i was meant to go on and this like this news thing and debate with someone and i was like i'm not debating with someone i have no words for someone that thinks i'm a man like what am i meant to say like i'm not going to argue with you over my existence i'm here like what do you want me to say like oh like like if you can't respect me as a woman we there's no need for us to have a conversation in my opinion um so yeah i think it's it's just listening to like it's when it really values you values you and you trust them listen to their opinions not to random stacy down the road you're so right

50:00Can I ask you some sort of big questions? Yeah. Okay. Not that they've been small already. Yeah. How do you personally define the difference between sex and gender? So sex is, this is what's interesting is, so sex, people think it's male or female, but it's actually intersex, which is, I think there's 40 or 50 variations. So a lot of people aren't, like sex isn't, it's complicated. It's not just a one or other thing. like it's not a binary thing um so gender is how you identify and it's how you express yourself and it's like what you feel most comfortable in so you know so i am transgender so i change genders like you can't change sexes does that make sense yes and but this whole situation with the bathroom situation people saying like well biological women but a lot of women if you look at women in general you have women that are about five years ago again don't quote me about five years ago English about five years ago there was a study if you look at a woman that's who who is like six foot two flat chest male like masculine jaw or like you have women that are five foot and curvy and you know whatever that like their chromosomes will probably be a bit different it's a it's a spectrum it's a range now it's what i believe is like scientists are starting to discover so and a lot of people are into sex so when it comes to the hub like biological biological argument when it comes to bathrooms you're excluding a big group of people because a lot of people don't fall into that the two lanes and but yeah so sex and gender are different and gender is how you identify and they're also you know thinking on that there are sort of extreme people who believe that trans women now shouldn't be in female spaces what do you feel about that with the whole like argument when it comes to trans women i think a lot of them haven't met a trans woman and people always do it on the basis of protecting women but you have nothing to protect them from and also with this whole like new law and stuff how's your life changed because i could ask any woman in this room and i'm sure they still feel as unsafe walking home at night nothing's changed like this hasn't made anything better and like trans women aren't the problem it's men um oh shock horror like it's not like i don't see any of these women at like women's marches or any of these men like you know calling out their friend when their friends are sexist or like have you know done something to a woman like it's it's really interesting when people pick and choose their battles and you know with this whole situation people saying how it's not going to affect women like i if i get stopped by a police officer or like public transport i will now be strip searched by a man which is crazy look at situations like sarah everard obviously he was murdered by a police officer because she trusted him like police have like i think it's like 1100 like cases like sexual misconduct a year or something like that against them do you really trust the police that they're not gonna see a woman that they fancy on the train strip search her which they can do now and claim that they thought that she was trans and then in the eyes of the law be fine because legally oh why i thought she was trans because also like if i walk down the street i i mean here in comes the comments saying i could tell but like you probably wouldn't be able to tell so it's it's a really dangerous game and also now men can claim they're trans men and go into women's spaces and go into the female toilets so if you weren't if you were worried about me coming into the toilets before you've got a bigger issue coming your way so just so again this is my naivety so they haven't changed the law so trans men can go into well they're saying you have to go into the toilets that you like you were biologically so these trans men i didn't why didn't i not even think that through clearly these trans men who were women when they obviously transition from female to male who have had surgeries who have also been on hormones since they were god knows how old like you know you might have a guy with full beard looks like you but was trans is trans now technically has to use the female's bathroom so as a trans woman do you feel unsafe i think i do but i know i have a lot better than other trans women i'm more concerned about and i'm more here to talk about kids that are just transitioning and how life and how scared they must be compared to me because it's not about me really it's about all these kids that don't pass all these people that just transitioned they now can't use the toilet and now are gonna be scared walking out and about because you have the government saying that they're not the gender that they identify with and that is scary because it's just gonna like increase hate crime in school when i was younger i had luckily i mean the situation with trans people is a lot better than it is now and i always knew that in the eyes of the law i had somewhat protection and you know technically the higher-ups saw me as a woman so like these people just being twats but i knew that like legally and stuff i could still get to a certain level as a woman so now that's out the window and you have the government basically shitting on trans people so then that what does that what narrative does that send to kids and what narrative does that send to you know lads like they're just going to get worse what kind What kind of challenges arise when your legal sex doesn't match your gender identity?

55:40Like in terms of healthcare, travel or employment? Well, now it's like, it's going to predominantly be the issue of what spaces we're allowed in. And also we're not protected in them spaces anymore. So like I'm not protected in a woman's space anymore. Legally, I believe, once the law goes into place. It's complicated, isn't it? It's complicated. It's really hard. it's interesting um and also like for example if like something happens to me i go to a male ward i don't go to a female's ward anymore yeah so if if i if i get or if i get in like you know i mean i'm a lover not a fighter but if i scrap her bitch which i won't do um peace and love um i if you know she was a knob and took it to court and i got put in prison i'd be put in a male's prison i won't be put into a female's prison because in in america they're they're changing people's passports back to male that's like a big thing it's happened to like hunter schaefer and stuff it's really bad i've got turned down from a club once when i was like 18 for being trans i think like he looked at me he's like oh like that's like doesn't line up or something you can't come in i was like so if you start to see we'll start being excluded from certain spaces i think and also what happens now um is they say publicly like any public toilets there has to be a third place which also we're in a recession do you really think we have the money for doing that um but it then becomes like what a business decides to do then also if a business isn't following the uk guideline like guidance they can also be sued so it's like basically if people really want to be twats like they'll feel so much pressure from turfs and whoever to make sure that it's biological spaces because they don't want to get the fear of like people not turning up and stuff so it's just like it's going to be really interesting to see how it plays out can you explain the term turf it's a trans exclusive uh trans exclusionary feminist or something i don't know like radical feminist so basically it's a feminist that doesn't believe in trans rights or doesn't believe they're trans men or women and they're separate um an example of that would be someone jk rowling who put like 70 grand into this whole supreme court thing by the way of course that's why they won i think she was neighbors with the guy as well or like one of the supreme court people sorry she's she what a knob like can we just like discuss like write another novel like you could do a sequel like harry potter's still alive do you know i mean like there's so many other things you could do what a twat

58:20Just thank you Thank you for having me Are you kidding me? Thank you so much Honestly You're really brave You really are so brave And it's just wild The fact that you were an only child And you felt there was no escape And I'm just so glad you're here And you're doing great And you're killing it And you're doing these amazing things and you're this beacon of hope for so many people. So just keep doing what you're doing. Promise me. Oh, yeah, I promise. Okay, that's a promise. High five. Okay, great. Thank you so much, Bella. Thank you for having me. Oh, you're the best. We have eight questions that we'd like to end on.

58:58It's quick, fire, or how do you want it? Are you ready for this? Yeah. What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? I love to say, that's crack.

59:10I love saying, oh my God, that's crack cocaine. like oh my god this is crap or so random i started saying this recently if someone this is not a quick fire answer if someone says something i don't understand oh let's meet wednesday my point i just say my point to everything and it's it's my i just love it like if you said something my point someone said to me the other day which i quite like which is when you're having a conversation and we're probably similar going off in all different directions someone said to me oh we'll just pin that there for a second pop a pin in it yeah that's what i do just pop if someone I said something I don't know what I was saying was yeah that's a good one best compliment anyone's ever given you um I get a lot of compliments say I smell nice which is nice um yeah they say that well like sometimes it's like such a backhanded compliment it's me Chris oh you actually look quite like a woman thank you so much do you know what made me piss myself was on this ITV news thing this it was all this hate and then I had one comment like five likes hear me out I went yes fucking when was the last time you cried um i think i've locked the last like two weeks but yeah i quite like when this whole situation happened i cried a lot what's something you can't let go of one thing that i find it's a big motivation but also a big like it's annoying as the way people treat me at school i'm always trying to prove people wrong which i don't actually ever get rid of and it's a good driving force i'm like your hair like you work out a girl isn't that like but nothing wrong garden centre but like it's just the people that were such trash to me at school it's now like well what are you doing but then I've got past the point I'm like Bella you've done like you've got like past where they thought you were going to go like you don't need to keep proving these people that don't care wrong but it's like I don't know that's something that I always keep taking but I mean it's got me to where I've got so sorry it's only going to get worse what's your guilty pleasure?

1:01:07good question Sleep I love a good nap I'm such a napper That's a good one Yeah That's a good one That's a pretty short answer No I like it What turns you off? Like Stupidness Like people that aren't educated In situations I find like Especially now You know when like The Election happened Oh I'm just not like Very political It's like Shut up Like Get educated I hate I hate people that don't know What they're talking about Like Read on the news It's not difficult no offense what turns you on um smart people i like some of ambition like i think ambitious people are really and i also think that you could be you could want to be like the number one tesco worker and if you have the ambition i think that's so attractive like i think with you in that like it doesn't i don't have to like i don't want to do that but like if it's not like if you really have a passion that to me is like a really yeah it's nice when someone has a passion in life and someone to like goals i find that really attractive i'm so with you i like friends and stuff yeah it It doesn't matter what your passion is.

1:02:08I love it when people speak passionately. Exactly. If we're talking about making this table, I love it. Exactly. I think it's really interesting. Yeah, I'm exactly the same. What do you like most about yourself? Probably, I think I'm a good friend. That's one of the best things to be. Yeah, I thought that's a shit answer. No, it's not. No, that's a good answer. I'd like to say I'm a good friend. I like I'm a loyal friend. It's the best thing to be. Yeah. Never lose that. Yeah. bonus one favourite swear word I love the C word you can say it if you want I love saying that but I've started saying it too much that I call everything that like some woman could be like I once said to my friend I was like hey cunt and they were like whoa that's too far I was like I'm so sorry but yeah I love the C word or twat this has been crack that's what it is it's fucking crack thank you so much thank you so much for having me thank you That was so good.

1:03:07Yes. I really, really enjoyed that. What an amazing, amazing woman. An amazing woman. And just brave. She's been through so much. She's so young. And but like also can have a... I just thought her whole energy, she was just like... She was so sparkly. Yeah, she's an amazing person. And again, as we said at the very beginning, whatever your views are, it's so imperative that you listen to voices and understand people that you may not chat to normally whether you disagree with the supreme ruling or you agree with it whatever it is these conversations are so important to understand and hear so we really appreciate you guys listening if you enjoyed the episode remember to subscribe and share it with others and also get in touch with us at greatcompanypodcast on Instagram we're also on YouTube and TikTok and you can send us an email great company at jamperproductions.co.uk Lovely.

1:04:00Thanks Jemima. Thanks Jamie. I'm going to see you next week for another episode of Great Company. Great Company.

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1:05:13Shopify.com slash retail. Your sausage mc muffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage from muffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just$5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary. Hello, everyone. We're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from Nearlyweds and then Newlyweds. But now, guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newlyweds is now Nearly Parents. and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood, I guess.

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