CHRIS APPLETON: Bullies Spat on Me at School. Now I’m Kim Kardashian’s Most Trusted Hair Stylist

0:00Guys, just before we start, I want to let you know this episode contains discussions around suicide. So please take care whilst listening or watching this. Now, if you or someone you know is struggling, support is available. Please see the show notes for more information and links to helpful resources.

0:16Chris Appleton: I know so many secrets. I started working with Kim, did J-Lo, did Christina Aguilera, then I think it was like Ariana Grande. Is it true that you charge$100 ,000 for a haircut? This is unbelievable. people relate to your hairstylist being a therapist right women men they open up i was really good at making people see themselves in the mirror look at where they're at where they've come from and where they could possibly get to is there a celebrity you wouldn't do their hair again hey i'm chris appleton and i'm in great company the hairdresser of the year chris appleton so you got asked to j-lo's super bowl halftime show people still stop me in the street now like j-lo super bowl hair it was that huge for me in my career yeah it went viral kim officiated your marriage any party at the time you're like what the fuck's going on here like this is i think everything was overwhelming i'm in america i was kind of going with it i got a job in the hair salon at a young age i think i was like 12 13 at the time i just got bullied they said oh you're gay because you know i did hair but it was before i really even thought about sexuality and i was like spat on and beaten up so i very quickly kind of thought well i'm not gay and i'm not stupid and And I just got really headstrong on wanting to prove people wrong.

1:28Chris Appleton: So you shut down that. I think I didn't want to kill myself. I wanted to kill it, whatever that thing was, with being gay. I've done the work. I'm not shamed of anything in my life now. I guess that was one of the moments of looking in the mirror and I just was like, what about if this is just who I am? Every idea starts with a problem. Morby Parker's was simple. Glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in-house and selling directly to customers, They're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact-resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate.

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2:46Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Great Company. Firstly, thank you so much for coming back. I'm really excited for today's episode. It's going to be incredible because we have the amazing celebrity hairstylist, Chris Appleton, on the show. Now, the Met Gala has just happened, so we thought this was a perfect time to release this episode. Chris has done so many celebrity hairs from J-Lo to Kim Kardashian to Christina Aguilera, and he's insanely famous. He tells me how we went from being a lad in Leicester to styling A-listers in Hollywood. He opens up about so much of his struggles, of what he went through, the hardship that he went through and where he is now today, that finally he can accept himself.

3:26This is going to relate to so many people. Okay, you're going to love it, I promise you. So get ready for it. Now, before we start, just a couple of things. Firstly, if you haven't subscribed to our show, please click that subscribe button. It takes one second. It's completely for free. And it does so many amazing, wonderful things for our show. and you can join the amazing community that are already following us already. It means we can keep making a better show, keep delivering on better guests, and keep improving for you guys every single time. And also, if you haven't listened or watched my show with my wife, Newly Parents, it's out now wherever you get your podcasts.

3:56Okay, here we go. Enjoy this incredible episode of Great Company with Chris Appleton. Is it true that you charge$100 ,000 for a haircut?

4:10Chris Appleton: Oh God, I should never have said it. I got dragged for that. I was awkward answering the question because they were like, and they kept pushing. I was like, oh, oh, oh. And I said it. Do you want to know the honest truth? Yeah, it's success. Come on. It was more. It was. Yes! Let's go! And I said that. It was 200 ,000. But I said 100 because I was afraid of what everyone would say. I don't know. I said it. And then I was like scared. Look, there's so much that goes into it. Like there's plenty of times I do work for free. There's plenty of times I don't get paid that amount of money. And a lot of my world is this and that and this and that, you know.

4:51Chris Appleton: So it's kind of like where something is great, then that has to last for a period of time. The other thing as well, just to sort of set the record straight, let me say, because it made me feel better, is that was like a bigger thing. And it was a lot of traveling and it was a whole commitment. So when you break it down, it's not as much. Also, 50 % tax in America. So that's half. And then your agent takes 20%. There we go. And then your business manager takes five. So the answer is yes and no. Is there a celebrity's hair that you haven't done yet that you'd love to do? Pamela Anderson. Oh, I met her the other day.

5:18Chris Appleton: I never get starstruck and I did get her starstruck with Pamela. I actually interviewed her in bed once. Oh, fucking hot. I know. Did you want to sleep with her? Be honest. Be honest. Yes, she did. Yeah, I probably did. But I was also, yeah, she was Pamela Anderson. And then she gave me her number. Did you sleep with her? I did not sleep with Pamela Anderson. But then she gave me her number. I'm gay and I'd sleep with her. And she gave me a number and then I phoned it and it was a fake number. Very upsetting. I gotta go. That's awful. I got a fake number. Well, also, why did you call her? That's weird.

5:51Chris Appleton: You don't call her. Well, I thought it was a flex in front of it. It was on a show and I thought, well, I have Pamela Anderson's number. And they said, this number is unrecognizable. And that is why she gave me a fake number. And then I was thinking, why would Pamela Anderson give me her number? she wouldn't she wouldn't and she didn't she didn't what is the is there a celebrity you wouldn't do that hair again that's about not really there's people I've said no to just because I don't think it would be a match but that's it so how did you start working with JLo I heard that you I heard that you got an email out of the blue is that right oh yeah so I was actually in London at the time and I just looked at my phone I was with Rita or I just started working with Rita and I kind of been posting my work on Instagram and I, the Instagram had just started.

6:40Chris Appleton: And I remember I got this email. I was like, I was like, are you available to work with JLo for, um, a Vegas tour? And I was like, cool. So I just deleted it, you know, like stupid. And then a couple of weeks later, I got another email and I was like, Oh, maybe it's not spam. Maybe it is JLo. Maybe it is JLo's team. So I thought, well, how does JLo know who I am? and just Chris, you know, from Leicester. I don't know if she knows who I am. But I thought, well, maybe I could go to America. Maybe I could do it. And that's, you know, one of the things that also prompted it. But what was the halftime?

7:13What happened at the halftime? So you got asked to do J-Lo's halftime, the Super Bowl halftime show.

7:19Chris Appleton: So basically it was, long story short, probably a lot of people say to me, was there a defining moment in your career? Everything has just been a build, a build, a build, a little builds all along. Because then all of a sudden people know who you are and they see you and you get a title. Oh, you're the best hairstylist or the best this or whatever. But it's just been build, build, build, build. There was a defining moment in my career, which was quite a big jump there, which was Super Bowl. I think just because so many people watch the Super Bowl and there was so much conversation around it. So I did J-Lo's hair and people seemed to love it.

7:49But at the time, she started a performance

7:53Chris Appleton: and there was this video that went viral of me brushing her hair because I'd done her hair in the morning and it was like the big bouncy hair. but any girls watching this know like everyone every girl has a big sexy blowout it's great they kind of bounce around it's really nice it doesn't last though it's one of those things you do and it's just like it kind of sinks okay she basically performs at the super bowl she's doing rehearsal and all that and there's this video of me brushing her hair and it looks like i'm doing it quite aggressively because i was because i've not had a chance to brush her hair all day and she'd done rehearsal she'd done everything and i was trying to bring it back to life and also she had all these beads on and hair just gets stuck in beads i'm like ripping it out the beads i'm like fuck this is everyone's gonna see this gonna make sure it's good so then off she goes on stage she starts on this like empire state build and the hair's all like bouncy and then she comes down and then as soon as she gets into her first dance move she like swings her head around and this piece of hair just got like stuck in her eyelash and then they're kind of like picking picking up she's doing this dance move where she's on people's shoulders she's like she's trying to get i know also in her hair she's like this fucking piece of hair is in my eye like and it's stuck in her eyelash this fucking piece of hair won't fuck off it was there the whole it would not go and i'm looking i'm looking on these big huge screens i'm like oh my god oh my god i've ruined it i've ruined the performance like i've i've she can't focus like it's everyone went out that night and celebrated it's the super bowl it's the biggest night and i went home and cried i literally stayed in bed i thought i'd absolutely ruined her performance that was like my career was over i was like god i can't even control the hair on the biggest i can't even get it right then i can't get it perfect and i remember the next day i woke up and i looked at my phone and i've never seen such a jump in followers on social media or the amount of messages i had and vogue wanted to do this top thing and all these people reaching out because everyone seemed to love her hair everyone seemed to love the way her hair moved and bounced and people still stop me in the street now like J.Lo Super Bowl hair.

9:50Chris Appleton: Get out of here. It was that huge for me in my career. Yeah, it went viral. And then the video went viral, me brushing her hair. It was just a really big moment. Your book is a New York Times bestseller. Yeah. So how are you feeling about that? Great. It's so honoured. I didn't anticipate it. I guess it means people liked it, which is what means the most. But why didn't you anticipate it? I mean, I was never very academic at school. I was dyslexic and that's why I kind of fell into hair so if you'd have told me then I'd be a New York Times bestseller I just felt, I don't know, I just think it was achievable because it was kind of for clever people or people that, you know, went to university I didn't do any of those things so I guess I felt like the underdog but the fact that, you know, it became a bestseller is, I don't know, yeah, I'm really proud of it I'm still kind of taking it in, honestly Dude, you're a New York Times bestseller I know, alright Let's freaking go I'll just keep bringing it up every now and again I do wake up in the morning sometimes, I'm on New York Times Press.

10:48Chris Appleton: It's a nice feeling. You know, the title, Your Roots Don't Define You, right? Which, by the way, very clever title. Yeah. You see what we did? It's a double. Yes. Because roots is the hair. Absolutely. But then roots is also good. And quite often we are defined by roots. There we go. Yeah. But it's true, right? That the reason why you probably felt that imposter syndrome, right? when you were writing it or when it came out is because that goes back to our roots is that you're saying I was this dyslexic kid I wasn't academic so then I can never achieve something like this 100 % and and then so you getting the New York Times bestseller is actually the true definition of your roots don't define you which is kind of amazing I think yeah absolutely and even though I know everything that I know and I've done the work and you know I have that title you still kind of go back to that young kid the difference is now i can kind of snap out of it and come back to myself and be adult me and be like i'm proud of that i did good you know whereas for a long time i think my imposter syndrome was so insane that it kind of really helped me back do you know it's mad right i remember at school when uh i i was just not good at like maths and things like that terrible and i got told by the teachers i had to have extra teaching yeah and And it was like the biggest amount of shame for some reason back then.

12:10I don't know why. And I didn't tell any of my friends. I didn't want anyone to know about it. And what is crazy for me is that our childhood, even though it's kind of a short period, it does kind of like it stays with us. Whole lives. Whole lives. Yeah.

12:23Chris Appleton: Even that short period. That's why I wrote the book. I mean, people relate to your hairstylist being a therapist, right? Yeah. So that, you know, women, men, they open up. I know so many secrets. but like when they sit in a chair the reason being is because it's the one time you sit and you really look in the mirror and a lot of people look in the mirror every day i don't know like 10 or 12 times a day but not many people stop and really look and see themselves they just see that reflection that they know whereas when you sit in a stylish chair i think it's the time you really look in the mirror and most women kind of do this and they're like pulling their face back like is this lighting bad because i kind of have wrinkles and they kind of start tearing themselves apart but it's the one time i notice where they're vulnerable enough to sort of open up and the the possibilities are endless in what you can create.

13:05Chris Appleton: And I've done that with celebrities now that people know, but also just, you know, women that came in the salon every week, like cancer patients that lost their hair, models on a runway. And I noticed that when you really see someone and you really get into sort of where they come from, why they look the way they look, and the possibility of like changing that, it was really powerful. And people really kind of related to that. All people, not just like rich or famous or, you know, Because hair is like an identity, but you carry it from a child. Because a lot of the time you're told as a kid who you are, you're like, you're the quiet one.

13:40Chris Appleton: Or, you know, your brother's the clever one. You're the one that's artistic. Or even as a job, like I want you to be a doctor when you're older. People go into relationships, jobs, make financial decisions, all based on what they were told to do or what society told them to do. And then you get to an age where, I don't know what I mean, I got to an age where I realized you could change, but not everyone does know they have the power to change that. And that's kind of what the book is about. It's for anyone that's ever asked, is this it? Like, you know, looked in the mirror, was this who I am? Was this my decision?

14:11Chris Appleton: Like, am I happy? That's a big moment, right? And I'm so, dude, I'm so with you, right? Because I think it takes us a really brave moment to go, actually, maybe that's not who I am. Maybe I'm not that like insecure kid or dumb kid, or maybe I'm not that person that someone's put me in that box to be. Maybe I can break out of it, but it takes a lot of work in order to have the strength to break out of it. Yeah, 100%. Honestly, doing the work is kind of brutal. It's terrible, yeah. I realized I was really good at it. I was really good at making people see themselves in the mirror, look at where they're at, where they've come from, and where they could possibly get to.

14:46Chris Appleton: Okay? Holy smokes. I made a job out of it. It was great. I made a whole career out of it. Do you know what I never did? I never looked at myself. I was very good at making other people do it. I was too afraid to see myself. and that's when I came out at 27 like that that's when I had to see myself and then that was incredibly hard um but I realized I made a whole career out of making people look and feel good and see themselves I just didn't do it to myself and I think a lot of people can sometimes be in those situations it's easier to help others than to actually help yourself well why were you too afraid to look at yourself I think well as a kid grew up in Leicester found that I was good at hair at a young age.

15:25Chris Appleton: I used to do my mom's hair around the age of nine because we were really poor and I kind of somehow wanted to sort of make her feel better about herself. She had a really, her parents died at a very young age and in a brutal way. And I think like I recognized that trauma and I could see this sadness. So I used to see these Hollywood stars and I'd be like, I want to try and make my mom look glamorous. So I'd do her hair and she'd stand up and look in the mirror and I saw her react. So her shoulders would go back, she'd stand a bit taller. And I was like wow you get to make people feel something and i loved that so i was like okay i'm gonna do this so i got a job in the hair salon at a young age and i was like 12 13 at the time and because i had a job in the hair salon kids at school just automatically the guys were you just i just got bullied they said you're gay because you know i did hair but it was before i really even thought about sexuality you know i was like 12 i wasn't i was just having a good time i don't know i was just happy to find something i was good at because i was told i was stupid a lot of school because I was dyslexic.

16:21Chris Appleton: And dyslexia then wasn't really recognized. It wasn't really acknowledged. So it wasn't as though these things were said in a nice way. It was a very brutal way. I mean, I was like spat on and beaten up. And it was just because, I mean, I wasn't, I didn't. What, in like the playground at school? Yeah, and jumped when I left school on the bus. It was just like relentless. I didn't, I didn't understand. I remember once I was walking home from school, I was with my girlfriends and we're having fun. And these guys jumped me from the back and were punching me in the head and pushing me into the gates.

16:50Chris Appleton: It was several of them. I just didn't know what I'd done. I was so confused. I was like, I haven't done any. I don't even know who they are. But it was because I did head and they said, then you're gay. And like I say, so I very quickly kind of thought, well, I'm not gay and I'm not stupid. And I just got really headstrong on wanting to prove people wrong. So you shut down that? Really badly. And I didn't, I would, I mean, if you've asked me through my teens and my early twenties, I would never have said I would. I wasn't aware that I was doing that, but I was on such a mission to prove everyone wrong and to do what society told me to do, which was be normal.

17:25Chris Appleton: I just didn't want to be different. When I came out as gay, everyone said, well, you must have always known. I didn't. I wasn't watching gay porn. I wasn't thinking about guys when I was having sex with girls. I wasn't like secretly meeting guys. I felt like my life was great. I had two kids. I had kids when I was 19. I felt really happy. I felt great. So then when I did come out, because my relationship with my partner uh we'd been together nine years broke down i kind of was just i thought i was just like kind of having fun my career was taking off i was traveling a lot with work and you know i hook up with girls and then i remember one night this guy like tried to kiss me and we'd had a lot of drink and i was always around gay people because of you know the industry i work in it was not foreign to me and i didn't think much to it i was just drunk and i'm like yeah you know just being a bit crazy because i'm heartbroken and i'm sad you know but then we kind of became friends and uh we just had it was a conversation over the phone they didn't even live in england um but that was my first introduction into that of like feeling safe to talk to someone it was just conversation like went over months and months and then i'd started to sort of feel like more but then i very quickly shut that down again which you started to feel i just kind of felt open i knew he was gay and i was you know i'd start to speak to him every day i enjoyed speaking to him so it went from being friends into feeling some sort of more emotional side to connect into.

18:45Chris Appleton: Then I got very afraid of what that was. And I thought, I'm just going through something, you know, I'll be fine. So I was fine for a minute until I wasn't. And then once I kind of opened those doors, I then had to understand what had happened for the last, you know, 15 years of my life. And that took a long time to figure out. That took years of work. Were you in love with the, and I'm sure you were, the mother of your kids? Oh, I think it was an unconditional love. I think it's the greatest love apart from my kids which we still have I'll tell you for why because me and Kate got together when I was 19 when we broke up when I was 27 it was really dark when I came out as being gay I tried to kill myself which was terrible I speak about this lightly now only because yeah you do speak about it lightly well I just think it's because I've done the work like those words don't scare me for such a long time it was such a big secret it was the darkest secret that I thought no one would ever know about because I was so ashamed.

19:42Chris Appleton: I'm not shamed of anything in my life now. This is all parts of my journey that made me who I am today. And I'm all right with that. In my darkest times when I couldn't see myself, she saw me. And for a lot of years in my life, I couldn't see myself and she saw me and not everyone has that, you know, even when it was so painful for her and the shame of me being gay and how that made her feel. And, um, I always get upset when I talk matters but she she saw me and um and still does in actual fact we spent Christmas together with the kids this year and it was New Year's Eve and the fight with fireworks going off and stuff and it was really cute and I put my arm around her and she said I said oh I did it okay I did it you know because I just brought a house back in the UK which was again very kind of full circle for me and um well she said oh I always knew you were Chris I always believed in you I always knew you would do it and i i thought i said i didn't and she says i know but i always knew you'd do it and she's just always believed in me always had your back always believed in me and like you know although sometimes me and kate felt so bad for our kids because they didn't have the conventional family but they do have i mean i think we created two beautiful children we're so proud of and um it's it's maybe not conventional but it's loyal and it's solid and you know the kids have always when a focus yeah so i think there is an unconditional love i mean look review sorors will argue like cat and dog and but it's just like there's there was a pact we made with each other when we met and i think in having kids and this bond that just never left and never will um and yeah she she saved me in many ways she's the one that found me when i tried to kill myself and you know she she was the one that like i say even when she was in the most pain and shame and probably should have just hated me and never want to talk to me again she didn't because she could see what i was going through she could see what happened to me as a kid she could see why i was in the place i was and that takes a lot of compassion for someone to be able to do that yeah i think what's important here is like people listening right now who don't know your story are really going to connect with this oh man 100 because you're kidding me so many people out there are feeling shame feeling guilt feeling whatever it's feeling not themselves yeah so you talking about that is a really important thing.

22:00Chris Appleton: I think I was trying to understand something that I didn't and couldn't because you can't, it took years to get it right and understand what had happened to me and why I made the decision to try and prove people wrong before I'd even let myself develop who I was. So when I did come out, it was very quick and everyone started to talk and there was just conversations all around and when there's a secret people want to know what that secret is you know when people know everyone really cares but you know when there's this secret and um so told kate told my parents and it wasn't like a nice way i was i was kind of shouting it i'm gay you know it was like this because i couldn't stand it you know i couldn't get rid of it and i wanted to you know every night i used to go sleep with a picture of the kids and i just pray to god i was was pray to God that I would wake up and it would be gone.

22:53Chris Appleton: Because I was like, why could I have done, why I was okay for so many years and I thought I was all settled and fine. And now it's like this thing I can't get rid of. And I just, I think I didn't want to kill myself. I wanted to kill it, whatever that thing was, well, being gay. So the night we told the kids, we had to tell the kids and it was just horrible. It was awful. They were upset. I was upset. I was in no state to tell them. What was the decision to tell them? I think everyone was just talking. Everyone in the town was talking and conversations and because it's just gossip i just yeah we just never wanted someone else to say it um and i just think we've always had very open relationship and honesty with our kids so we told the kids as gay i couldn't even say it her mom ended up kind of just saying your dad's gay and they just looked so confused and i remember my son saying are you gonna have your arm like that you know like he'd been told gay guys do this you know like in the playground i was like like how bullied i was at school and how miserable my life had become because of that i felt like i just given all of that to them and put all that shame and they were going to get bullied and just have the shit that i had to deal with as a kid and that was miserable and as a as a dad or as you know like all you want to do is protect your kid if someone kicks them in a playground you wait you want to go find that motherfucker and when the fucking mum's not fucking watching deck of like who was it like you know but when you're the one doing that i just was like i can't take i so i just thought it would be better for me to be dead than to be gay and um i just just switched i don't know i just needed to i felt like i just need to get the fuck away from them i just yeah but you know you know now looking back at that that is like completely the wrong choice not because well there was a moment that when i woke up in the hospital several days and i remember kept hearing people in and out when i eventually woke up i remember laying there and i thought to myself like okay i didn't die and i thought to myself you know i couldn't hate myself anymore like i was thinking what can i do i was thinking i couldn't hate myself anymore like i literally tried to kill myself and i didn't die and i thought well what's the opposite i could do and i thought what about if i just stop and surrender and i think for the first time in my whole life i think my shoulders like went down wow it's like a physical thing where I just sat there and I was like, I guess that was one of the moments of looking in the mirror.

25:16And I just was like, what about if this is just who I am?

25:20Chris Appleton: And I don't really know what's next, but maybe the first step is just saying, this is me, I'm Chris and I'm gay. And I don't know what to do next, but I'm going to start here. And that was the beginning, I think, of me living and being honest and authentic. And, you know, it was definitely a journey but acceptance was just it's like someone was trying to shut it's like a mirror was in front of me my whole life and I kept dodging the mirror I kept dodging the mirror it's fucking exhausting I didn't even realise how exhausting it was man Chris like honestly I remember so I in my 20s I like I had serious anxiety right and I had like a panic attack and that panic attack was like a light switch it just suddenly I just experienced this thing of like anxiety and it wouldn't go and so I'd suffered with it for so long and for like ages and crippling crippling and I never spoke about it to anyone It's like my hidden secret.

26:13And I remember I was speaking to a therapist finally when I was like, I don't know how old, maybe like 29 or whatever it is. Do you like therapy? Yeah, I love it. I've sort of stopped it now, but I think it's, if you can afford it and do it and you have access to it, it's the most incredible thing you can do, that's self-awareness, right? But the therapist said to me, Jamie, I wish you could just accept. I wish you could just accept that you have anxiety. And I remember just going, all right, okay. And I remember I was on holiday and I remember just thinking, all right i'm just gonna accept that i have anxiety i'm gonna accept it yeah and i remember that moment that i just accepted yeah that perhaps i was an anxious person that didn't you know and i know it's different to what you were going through but accepting that it was anxiety was my makeup that's what i was dealing with yeah that was my shoulders also relaxed yeah shit

26:59Chris Appleton: wow and that moment it's not a loud moment though is it's really quiet it's quiet yeah and it's like oh and you suddenly have this like road to freedom where you're just like so crazy like well For so long, I've been trying to hold my breath and not breathe because I think it's going to... I know I can battle my way through this, but actually the damage that happens and also just acceptance. A lot of times you're just fighting yourself, you know.

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28:28What's your relationship like with your kids now?

28:31Chris Appleton: Oh, great. My kids are amazing. Kitty's 21, Billy's 23, and they're living their best lives. I'm so proud of them. They're incredible kids. I mean, I think probably one of the best things I did as a dad was they came to America. I think your kids leaving the town you grew up in is really powerful, I think, because it enables them to see there's more than just what's going on, you know, in the 2.4 children. You know, like they're kind of like, you know, you go to work, you come home, you know, you get married at a young age, you have a kid. I want them to experience some life to see what was out there for them to make the decisions they wanted to make.

29:06Chris Appleton: And I'm incredibly proud of who they are. And like I say, very open and honest. Um, I take Kitty with me to all these different events. And I mean, it's interesting when she first moved to America, she couldn't even look the waiter in the eye. I remember we were ordering food at a restaurant and she was just so like, you know, shy and timid, but now, you know, I see her and she handles herself conversations with people and you know she's just grown so much to see the growth in them at such a young age i mean i moved to america when i was 30 and that was really scary to do it at the ages of 16 and 18 i'm just really proud of them yeah because it's a huge job especially la and hollywood it's a crazy place to live in you know it's fun and it's the land of dreams but it's also can be a very sad and lonely place you know and you know a lot of people go there to be someone or be something so there's lots of different things you have to learn about la you know certain people want access to things or you know they want to be a part of something like with celebrities or whatever so you know you have to learn to protect yourself and protect your circle but they're incredible when you when you arrive in la right and um you get off the plane did you suddenly go okay here we go i'm here this is it did it feel like you had turned this new chapter and started again yeah it just feels crazy i'm like it's hollywood it's the land of dreams that everywhere you look, it's just like, oh my God, like go to get some lunch.

30:25Chris Appleton: It's like Brad Pitt's getting lunch. It was just people everywhere. They sell slushies in the 7-Eleven. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, oh my God, the food is crazy. Everything's bigger. Supermarkets are bigger. The roads are bigger. The cars are bigger. Everything's just big. You know, not everything's bigger. I don't know. I think the Brits are. Not everything. Yeah. I don't know. In my experience. For anyone who wants to know. Well, the Brits are bigger. Yeah. yeah okay uh so no i i uh even like working i did the voice i did the voice here when i worked with rita oran and the first job i got was with christina aguilera on the voice which is huge huge uh i was like wow amazing let's go and then i was like oh my god it felt like mount fucking everest it was like oh it's christina aguilera she's she's so famous you know like she's huge she's worked with everyone she could work with anyone she wants every photographer every has you know she's had the best why the fuck would she want me so i turned up to do a hair on the voice and there was like three hours for glam but even the voice was just bigger i've been to the voice in the uk it's kind of nice it was great this was big and it's like you know craft services and all these different things and i don't know i was sitting outside a trailer waiting to go in and there was three hours for glam which you might think is a long time but it takes time to get yeah yeah i get that looking gorgeous yeah i mean i was in glam this morning for two and a half hours Six hours.

31:45Chris Appleton: Did it in five minutes, mate. And you look. I don't even have any makeup on. So the makeup watchers goes in and I got left outside. So an hour went by and I'm like, an hour of anxiety is not great. So I feel like a little bit like I can't move, but still didn't get invited in. An hour went by. Anyway, last 20 minutes, they're like, okay, she's ready for you. And I'm like, well, probably someone else has done a hair and I'm just going to finish it. Finishing touches, right? 20 minutes, finishing touches. What can you do in 20 minutes? Well, you, I kid.

32:18Chris Appleton: So 20 minutes, I go in and I'm like, Hey, and she's like, what do you want to do? And I'm like, okay, cool. And I had all these hair pieces, very prepared, had all these pieces done. Like I thought I could put this wig on the back, like a half piece. It would be a quick way to change it up. Cause I'm not like the beachy wave kind of guy. I'm not like same as usual. I'm always very much like, who do you want to be? Let's kind of reinvent something. Let's do something different. I love kind of transformation. so i was like oh i think these like wigs could look really good these hair pieces she's like i don't like wigs and i was like oh cool okay and i thought you were like nor do i no you know what obviously i don't did i say wig i don't what i meant is i want to go home no so i just like oh cool okay of course you don't in my head i'm like why would you like any she sees me i was like she sees i'm a piece of shit so i said okay cool so i did that thing hairdressers do where they basically just kind of like they just move your hair fuss it's just fuss yeah there's they're just moving it and they're hoping something's going to happen so i'm just like moving it and thinking i'm just going to touch in it and she's probably what the fuck is he doing like when you're at a wedding and you feel really uneasy and you just like move your time just start moving things and then i felt paralyzed i felt the fear come in through my chest come out through like my arms i felt like i couldn't move and i felt like she sees me she sees this little kid she sees chris just this she knows i'm from leicester she knows i'm like stupid and just trying to who am i kidding you know she can see me for who i am like you guys are all famous and stars i'm not and i came back to myself i came back to like adult chris instead of this like child version of myself and i was like you know what you've never tried one of these pieces like let's just try it because they were all prepared and they were good they were fucking good i know they were good so i got one and put it on her head and she was like oh she's like oh and the stylist looked over she was like oh i like it and she's like okay so i put it on her head and it was like 10 minutes i buried her hair underneath and off she went on the show and um i remember i was like taking pictures of the screen and then she came off um the stage and she looked over at me and she was like everyone likes your wig and then she like carried on talking to the contestants and in that moment was the defining moment where i realized like oh my god I did it and I nearly because I nearly didn't do it I nearly really didn't do it and if I hadn't have put that wig on if I hadn't have come back to myself and I hadn't have been able to ground myself and have those that technique to be able to come back to myself I would have not done a good job on a hair I don't know what I would have done that was 10 minutes and I wouldn't be here now I wouldn't have written the book I wouldn't be in America I would still be in Leicester You really think that defining moment was everything?

34:58Chris Appleton: believing a version of myself that I was told 100 % without a doubt Do you look at that like Because you're only as good as your last gig. And that was my gig. That was my chance. That was my chance. What's amazing though, having that confidence in the moment to say, I think this is going to work, having your opinion, that is so important to have sometimes. And we don't do it because we're scared of the reaction we're going to get. Right? And you kind of just push that forward. That's insane. And it wasn't in an arrogant way. Like I was 30 years old. I spent my whole life learning my craft. And I didn't know what I was doing.

35:26Chris Appleton: And I was like, this is what I thought. I thought if I do me and she doesn't like it, that's all right. We're just not a match. But if I don't do me and if I don't show up to be my best self, I will kick myself for the rest of my life. So when did you start working with Kim Kardashian? Who? Huh? Kim Kardashian? What? I was waiting for you to bring that one up. I started working with Kim about 10 years ago. Did you? Yeah. So I did J-Lo. No, I didn't do J-Lo actually. I didn't do her for a minute after I moved to America. I did Christina Aguilera. Then I think it was like Ariana Grande. But every time I did something like Ariana Grande, I put the hair hoops, those hoops in her hair, that kind of became a thing.

36:09Chris Appleton: And I made a ponytail longer. So all of that is your little ideas. Yeah, like Christina Aguilera, he did like lavender hair. She had like lavender hair on the, and then we put the hoops in. And then someone saw that. Who did that? You know, it's like a knock-on effect. It's that tumbleweed effect. Totally. It was like social media. I was posting my stuff. People look. And honestly, anyone watching social media, we have a love-hate relationship with it. But anyone that does want to succeed, I'm always like, find out what, like sell the sizzle, not the sausage. Like show people what you're good at.

36:35Chris Appleton: Show people what your thing is. My thing was like reinvention. I love to do different things, even if it was just a little twist on it. Like when I got the job to do Ariana, it was like a test and I knew she had a ponytail. I was like, I don't even know if that is her ponytail, if it's her hair. I didn't know what it was, but I was like, what could I do that would make me stand out from someone else? So if there's three of us having a test, what could I do that would just put a little twist on it? And I loved, like I say, these hoops. and I kind of was like her ponytail, but with this interesting detail and that kind of, so I think I've always just tried to be like, well, why me?

37:07Chris Appleton: Why am I going to stand out in that situation? So yeah, in answer to sort of getting acknowledged, I guess in America was I did those little things that made a difference. And then one day I got the call from Kim's team and I walked in and said, oh, I've heard you're really good at like wigs. And I was like, yeah. Oh yeah. Because I think I was changing Christina's hair on The Voice. so you see the thing that Neal she had in like wigs and then got known for and then we did this short like I remember Kanye came out and I sat down and had a conversation with him we were doing this and we were doing that and she was going to do blonde and then we ended up doing this like short blonde wait so you were telling Kanye about you being like hey we're thinking about this and he was like I don't know maybe well yeah he was like you know this is kind of where it was like that kind of whole Yeezy era and I'm like Chris were you not like any part of you at the time you're like what the fuck's going on here like this is i think i was just everything was overwhelming i'm in america this is kind of going with it so um i don't know fake it till you make it yeah i kind of we did this like shorter look on kim was different and no one knew it was wig ever thought she'd cut her hair off again that was another moment and then people saw that so everything was just like everything was just like a leaping board into the next thing but if i said to you how are you where you're at now like did you just get a call you know overnight sensation no it's like so many little builds right?

38:22Chris Appleton: Always. And then knock down and then build and then knock down. Kim officiated your marriage. I was waiting for you to bring that one up. Did you like my tone of voice where I went, I'll beat this. It's a little bit awkward. Okay, yeah. But you got married in Vegas. I did. For the world to see. On the Kardashians. Yes. But then you, the marriage broke down. Of course. You got a divorce. Yeah. What I've noticed about you, Chris, is you're pretty brave at making big decisions. And I don't know about your marriage. I don't know about your relationship, right? But you make the decision to come out at 26.

39:00You make the decision to go to America. You make the decision to put the wig on. You make these big, bold decisions. You get married and then you make the decision, amicably or whatever it is, to have a divorce as well, even though it is so public. They're big, bold decisions. And sometimes in life, I think that a lot of us get stuck in situations and we're afraid of the outcome, so we just stay in it. That can be a job, that can be a relationship, that can be anything. And you don't do that. You feel that something's not good for you or you're not feeling it and you do make that decision. You almost like breathe.

39:28I mean, I think a lot of people in this situation

39:31Chris Appleton: maybe said that it was reckless. But I think sometimes it can be more about hope than recklessness. And I think sometimes we shame people too much for, I don't know, following their heart and you know people say well i know that wouldn't work and i think i'd rather feel like i lived than you know never lived at all but i think the important thing that i've always done is try to learn by my mistakes and try and look why i make the decisions i make and you know not wanting to make the same mistake twice yeah um why do you think the marriage didn't work i think probably what i've done my whole life is think that love is enough and unfortunately love isn't enough and I always just thought oh we'll figure it out love's enough love love will win love is the ultimate thing that will win which I'd love to believe is true but unfortunately it's not and I think alignment is a true is really important I think um honesty I think um two people that have you know aligned intentions um and I think those are things that I never really looked at, you know, throughout any of my relationships, even friendships, I don't think I've done that.

40:46Chris Appleton: I think I've just kind of thought, oh, it'll be fine. And it's not. But I think unfortunately now that's why, well, unfortunately or fortunately, that's why I've been single for the last two and a half years because now I do know what's important. I know what works for me. Whereas before I kind of just wanted to make something work. Whereas now I'm like, what works for me? And when you realize like what does work for you, the pool of people become much smaller, you know, and, uh, that's okay. I'm all right with that. Wow. Yeah. It's, it's a big moment when you realize that you don't have to be friends with everyone and then that you can just have this select few and actually that's okay in life.

41:22Chris Appleton: Yeah. A hundred percent. And I did, I think it's just really important to, to whatever you get yourself, you know, I don't have any regrets about my past. I have no regrets. I think everything's took me to a place now of where I'm at. Like I said, I don't try and delete it or ignore it. I just think some things are for a season and some things are more for a lifetime. And I know the mistakes I've made in my life and I'm, you know, aware of who I am as a person. And that's all I can do. I can't be accountable for other people and their actions. You know, I think that's their journey and I'm all right with that too.

41:58But when something doesn't work, I think, I hope that I still feel that I am confident enough to say as much as, and it's not without, you know, working hard.

42:12Chris Appleton: I'm not a flaky person. I'm very loyal. I'm probably too loyal. But when something just isn't serving you anymore, I do think it's important to say, I have to just step away. And, you know, all right, you talk about my marriage and a public experience. it's very interesting when you have the whole world's opinion, when you have people's opinions. When I say whole world, that sounds like people talk about it. But it feels like when you're in that moment, you feel like it is the world because you feel like every single person is looking at you, they're messaging you, they're saying all these things, and it feels a lot.

42:44Chris Appleton: Do you know why it's all right? Because I know who I am, my family knows who I am, the people that I love know who I am, and I'm all right with that. And I also am not naive enough to know that if you do do something like get married on the Kardashians, there's not going to be opinion. or if you do go on podcasts and talk about your life, or if you do, you know, you know, you go on a beach and you get photographed, you can't complain. Oh God, it's a possibility. I mean, it's all right though. It's okay because you put yourself, I know what I'm doing. I'm putting myself out there enough to know that there is going to, if you go to a restaurant, people might do videos of you or take pictures of you.

43:20Chris Appleton: And then that ends up on a website. You know, I'm aware enough to know there's going to be a conversation. I'm all right with that. I don't, I don't, I don't love it when people are like, oh, I hate that side of things. Because I think when people are invested in you, that is a part of like, you know, when people say everything, right? Totally. And all comes, hey, can I take a picture? And I always think it's nice and it's flattering. And like, it's very sweet. I just think it's like, if you put yourself out there, these people are invested in you and they kind of want to know, and there's going to be a conversation.

43:45Chris Appleton: And look, sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad, but that's okay. I remember once there was a conversation that went out and I was like freaking out of my publicist. And I was like, I shouldn't have done this. We should took it down. It was actually when the Jay Shetty thing came out. I'll just be really fucking honest. Why not? So the Jay Shetty podcast came out and everyone was like, he knew he was gay. He ruined that woman's life. And I was looking at some of the comments and I was on a plane. Things always happen to me when I'm on a plane. I'm stuck. It's like fucking wild. I want to open the door and jump out.

44:11Chris Appleton: You can't do anything. And the Wi-Fi shit. You can't ring anyone. I'd love to have a phone call. It's that all night time. It's like a Sunday at like 11 o 'clock. And you're like, what? Wake up. I need to talk to people. I'm like, what the fuck? So I'm looking at these comments, he's like, he's evil. And I'm like, oh my God. I'm literally was like back to that time when I came out and tried to kill myself. I was like, they're right. Like I'm the worst. And also you've also, you've also been open for like the first time properly. We've come a long way. People, you know, but nope. Right. Like, okay, cool.

44:40Chris Appleton: So I was like, get this video taken out. I should never like, let's get it down. Please let someone take it down. Like I can't, this is, I can't take it. I was like, I'm having a panic attack. And I felt like I was making everyone ashamed again and bringing all this shit up for people. I was so afraid. And my publicist was like, Chris, it's viral. And I was like, I know. And it's bad. And she was like, Chris, you can't go viral and there not be a conversation. You have to have the good and bad. If you want to get it taken down, we'll take it down. But some are good. You're only seeing the bad, which is what you do.

45:08Chris Appleton: You only see the bad. And I was like, you know what? Do you know what? That's such a good. And also, it's so true. When you say your truth, right? whatever it is once you are honest but yeah there's going to be judgment especially when it's in the public eye and you can't always just be good no you're going to get bad and you have to accept that it's actually it's all right it's healthy it's healthy to it for there to be a conversation and i'm kind of like all right do you know why it's all right because like i say i kind of for the first time in my life i i'm good with who i am i never have been i think i would have been so knocked before and for anyone watching this to do struggle with it if you are so not maybe there is a bit of work you need to do in finding yourself and knowing who you truly are and that's like kind of why i wrote the book to help these people from my experience of how i found some of that doesn't mean you're perfect it just means that you can kind of be solid enough not to be completely knocked over with every gust of wind um and you know honestly sometimes i think something was a little bit funny something kind of really people say people say shit about my face my hair, my body, I'm like, hmm.

46:11I'm like, don't I have a big face?

46:13Chris Appleton: Don't I have sex with my face? My face really, everyone says I have a big face. I'm like, oh my face is that big. But in the book, I write a whole chapter about envy and about how dark envy can be. And in my life, I could be very envious from many people that I've worked with in my life because they have it all or seem to. Oh, okay. I've always tried to, and thankfully it's been something I've always done. Even if I was passing pins, learning how to do hair at a fashion show and I was the bottom of the barrel passing pins. I would watch the head stylist and be like, what makes him the head stylist?

46:43Chris Appleton: What makes him the best? How does his hands move? How's he talking to people? How does he conduct himself? And I would just absorb it, absorb it. And so even with the women I work with, some of the most successful women's in business, or what Kim did with Skims, I'm just like a sponge. I watched her create Skims, come up with, you know, it was originally kimono and then she changed the net. And I've watched the whole build and I've just been like a sponge absorbing it. And I think what I - That's the best advice for someone. Someone, someone listening or watching now, become a sponge. Sponge, yeah.

47:11100%. Learn, learn, learn. Become a cunt. Yes.

47:15Chris Appleton: Because you could just become jealous. Yeah. A lot of people - It's easy to become jealous sometimes. Look, you go on social media, I want that body. Why do they always have that partner? They look like they've got it easy. Look how luscious their hair is. They don't even want a hair extension. It's like so easy to get jealous. Oh my God, they go to everything. They get invited to everything. jealousy can be really dark and it can get you to a really dark place and i encourage people and talk about it in the book of trying to get to a place where you can look at the person and acknowledge there's something about what they're doing i like there's something that i want about what they've got so using that person as more of um motivation and a bit more of a mentor to be like how did they get to where they've got and i use them as a bit of an experiment to like dissect how they got there and their challenges and stuff and then first of all you sort of then realize the build and it makes you more empathetic but it just takes that kind of the green dark rootedness of envy because envy can just make you sit at home and be a miserable fuck and you know i think that's really sad whereas in actual fact you could use it as motivation to get the fuck up and do something you know damn straight yeah let's fucking go let's go who are we jealous of no one

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49:30Thank you, man, by the way. This has been freaking great. Oh, good. You're welcome. And also, it's one of the things, because you are British, right, and we see you just killing it in the US, I think Brits are always a bit like, yeah, let's freaking go. like that there is a lot of that i think now which is good where before yeah for sure so man and being open and honest and just fun and everything is just the best thanks dude i appreciate it we have eight last questions you ready for this oh yeah let's keep going i'm going to be aware now here we go here we go what's the saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers

49:59Chris Appleton: you up at the minute it's your roots don't define you because i've been talking about it so much and honestly i just think a lot of the time they do and it reminds me that they don't best compliment anyone's ever given you? I have a huge personality, which I think goes a long way. What scares you most about yourself? Just that, you know, I think I like to, my motto is always to like die with memories, not dreams. So I really like to live life. Great one, love that. Yeah, I think that's really powerful. That is a good, that's one of my favorites. And you know when you were talking about my marriage earlier or different decisions I've made throughout my life, I think that's one of the things, I try and follow my heart as much as I can.

50:40Chris Appleton: And I think sometimes the thing that scares me, though, is doing that. Because I think sometimes a little bit more reality is needed. I think it's fucking good, that one. When was the last time you cried? I cried the other day talking to someone I'm kind of talking to right now and talking about my life. And I was speaking about Kate and that she was the one that saw me and talking about love and what that means. And I got really upset and cried. And then they cried. I know. Are you open for a relationship now? I don't like open relationships. I've been in them. I just didn't know about it. No, but are you open?

51:18Chris Appleton: They didn't tell me. That's the other problem, you see. That's the other problem. I've always been in monogamous relationships, but not apparently. But are you also open? Because you're single right now. Are you not single? Okay. What am I? I don't know. Okay, all right. We'll leave it there. What's something you can't let go of? I think I've tried to get to a place where I do. I am really good at letting things go. I'm really loyal until I'm not. And once I'm done, I'm gone. What's your guilty pleasure? Many things. Things I can't say on this thing. I don't know. Guilty pleasure just generally is like probably binging a Netflix show.

51:57What is the one you've been watching? The ice hockey thing. Heated rubber, yeah.

52:02Chris Appleton: But that made me sad. What turns you off? uh oh just liars people that lie um people that are inconsistent people that talk the talk and don't walk the walk i just think i've i'm fucking allergic to that shit now what turns you on honesty uh kindness a passion um i i think it's really hot when someone even i don't care if you work at starbucks but if you love it and you're passionate about it. Passion's everything. Yeah, passion. What do you like most about yourself? That I'm proportionate. Are you talking about fizzy? Physical? What are we talking about? It can be anything you want. Why are you laughing at me?

52:48Chris Appleton: I wasn't expecting that answer. Oh, I ask that question a lot on days. What's your favorite body part? You do? Yeah, what's your favorite body part? Mine is my feet. I have good feet. I actually do. I have good feet. Show the cameras. Let's see. I have really good feet too I'll show you my Well maybe not Let's compare feet Did I have a pedicure? Do you have pedicures? I've had one before But I don't typically have a pedicure Are they cute? Your feet are bigger than mine Jeez I've got this tattoo on here Yeah we've got good feet There we go That's my wedding date Look I still have it on my ankle Forgot I had that Chris Thank you man Honestly I want everyone To go and get this book We're going to leave a link In the description Where you can click on it as well You're incredible Thank you so much You're amazing Thank you so much We adore you Man you're the best Thank you so much.

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