CRYSTAL HEFNER: WHAT LIFE WAS REALLY LIKE INSIDE THE PLAYBOY MANSION

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1:15So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexed My Boss. Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Sexted. Be warned, it's a bit rude.

1:32Before we start the episode, it's Mental Health Awareness Week. It is. I'm a big believer in being able to talk about your mental health. And actually the best form of therapy sometimes is talking about your mental health. And if you are struggling with your mental health at the moment, I really encourage you to talk about the way that you're feeling because actually it's the best form of therapy sometimes. Yeah. And you're not alone. And you're not alone. And today's episode is we talk a lot about mental health as well, which is, it sort of fits perfectly into this incredible week of awareness.

2:03Okay, should we get on with the episode? Let's get on with it. Let's do it. Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Lange and this is Great Company. Good day. Good day to you. And to you. And to you. What's your name? My name is Jamie. I'm the host of Great Company podcast and you are... The producer. Jemima. We have this little lingo that we do at the top of the show. Yeah. We say this every time. Are you excited for today's podcast? I am a little continental. No, from the cross. Across the pond? Pond. Guest. That was. Smooth. That was incredibly smooth. Yeah, we have a guest today who's from. Transatlantic.

2:43There we go. We have a guest today, which is from across the pond. Yeah. Transatlantic. I'm very, very excited. Before we get into our guests, though. Yeah. I just want to get because I think what a lot of people understand is the little back history of what goes on in the show when you're editing it how many times do you listen to it so when I used to edit when I first started I'd listen all the way through and then go back and cut but that's actually quite long so when I listen if there's you know like someone coughs I'm immediate cut you take that out yeah so I cut as I go and then sometimes you get to an end of a section and you're like nah so what I do is I edit into chunks and I colour code them.

3:24Okay. And I label them. Yeah. And then I move all the chunks around. And that's my favourite bit. So it's like a jigsaw that you have. It is like a jigsaw, yeah. And then you put the pieces together to make whatever you're making and then that gets your show. Yeah, because often with an interview show, people will edit it chronologically. But the end of the interview is when people are their loosest. So sometimes they're really relaxed. So you get some really funny stuff at the end or you get them all so I'll move around. So sometimes the stuff at the beginning, especially if someone you've never met before, might be a little, you know, like it takes, you know, 10 minutes to warm up.

3:58So often that stuff is the thing I might cut or I'll put later at the end. But that's what that's the joy of the edit. I can do that. But sometimes what's really annoying is when I edit it and the order you've done it in is the best order. And I'm like, I can't. You can't move it around. I can't mess it up. I love moving it around. OK, so today's guest, Crystal Hefner. Famous surname. Famous, famous, famous surname and lots of reasons related to me. Really? I'm going to tell you why in a second. Born in Arizona, she was originally Crystal Harris, an American model author now. And she was the third wife of Hugh Hefner.

4:39Yes. The CEO founder of Playboy. Yes. The late Hugh Hefner. Late Hugh Hefner. And she's got a book out at the moment, which I read for preparation. And it is a real page turner. Just a little note to anyone who's listening, because I feel like sometimes they may think, does Jamie do any of the work? He does. Can you explain? Because I don't want to say it in my own words. So I'll do. So myself and our lovely assistant producer, Galena, will do. Galena does a general document about their life and reads the book. and we both read the book because it was so good. And then I will collate that into notes, send it to Jamie.

5:17But what always surprises me is I send that over to you and then in the interview you'll mention something because you do more research on top of that. And so I get my little bit. And what's great is that the way that I have always worked in certain ways is, okay, I used to act a lot when I was good. So I used to just memorize scripts, right? That's how acting works. So the way that I can get it in so quick is I can read what you have sent me in this bullet point form and it just stays. You're mad good at that. Really good. So when I used to do reality TV, what's so interesting is that the reason why I was quite good at it, lots of reasons I was quite good at it, but lots of reasons were probably quite bad, but lots of reasons.

5:58The reasons why I was quite good at it was because before a scene, the producer would say to me, right, these are the topics we're going to talk about today. You're going to talk about this, this, this, and this, and this. Why do you mention this? Why do you mention this? Oh, and this. if you can also wield that in some way. And I go, yep, fine. And they would never have to brief me again. I would just know how to do it. Would other people, they pause and go... You have to pause and come in and tell them what... Really? Tell them, oh, you haven't mentioned this. You're so good at that. So I would just remember it.

6:24Yeah, it's quite scary as well sometimes when there's something I've mentioned to you in a week later, I'm like, Grey's forgotten. And then you'll be like, what's going on with that? And I'm like, no, I've done it. So what's so great is that you basically spell out someone like Crystal Heftner's life. I then digest it once you send it to me. And weirdly memorize it. And sort of half memorize it and things trigger it. And then we go, I have the interview and I chat all those things through. But her life is insane. It's mad. It's mad. She grew up for the first, I think, seven years of her life in the UK.

6:57Yeah. Loves Ribena. Loves Ribena, Mrs. Ribena. And she was Hefner's wife for a while. And she's opened up finally about what it's like. Now, her book is Only Say Good Things, Surviving Playboy and Finding Myself. And today I'm hoping she's really going to get into everything that happened in the mansion. Weird enough, the reason why I say Hugh Heffern and I have a connection is when I first started Candy Kittens, my confectionery company, it was a different time. and my pitch was I wanted to be a mixture between Willy Wonka and Hugh Hefner. Okay. Because the idea was is that I was a huge fan of Girls at the Playboy Mansion, that reality TV show and I loved the idea of a reality show mixed with Willy Wonka, bring it together.

7:51My business partner very quickly said that's the worst idea and I went, okay, let's not do that. I remember... Because we wanted to make fun, sexy packets of sweets. Was it meant to be like women like selling the sweets in the shop? Not just women. It was meant to be sexy people. Sexy people. Love that inclusive. Sexy people selling sweets in a shop. I mean, sex sells. Do you think I should say that to her? I think, I mean, say it and I can cut it out if it doesn't work. I'm ready for this. Are you ready for this? I'm really excited for this. I hope this is going to be a good one. I feel like it is.

8:23I think it is. Okay, listen, everybody, we're going to get into the episode. Also, before we start, I've said it before, but if you could follow the episode. Oh my gosh, you're such a tease. I know. Please follow us, click that subscribe button. It just does so much for us. I cannot tell you how much actually, but it really, really does. Anyway, here we go. Enjoy the episode of Great Company with Crystal Hefner.

8:47Apparently when you come to the UK, you'd love a Ribena and a Cadbury's. Yeah, I lived here until I was eight. That makes you British, right? Yeah, yeah, my parents are British. I had an accent when I was younger, but... Can you try and do a British accent? No. No, it's so embarrassing. Give it a go. I'll try and do an American accent. No, I won't. I'm not thinking of that. Hi, I'm Crystal Hefner, and I'm Great Company. Can I ask a personal question? Yeah. I don't think it's too personal. But were you in love with Hef? No. No? Pretty soon Like being there I thought Okay if he wants to have like multiple people In the bedroom He can't love me Like that's weird and this is all fake So I just I think he loved me the best way he knew how Considering he just loved himself Like that He took up the most real estate In his heart with himself And maybe like I had a small little part in there and then maybe his kids after me, sadly.

9:56But yeah, he wasn't a very good family man. I think he loved me the best way he knew how. And I think I cared about him in a way that kept me there for so long. But do you know what, this is just from my own personal sort of analysis, right? is that you still have this real sense of respect for him maybe. Because you're telling your story and it's your story and you're happy to say that. But when I mention him, you feel a bit reserved. Almost you don't want to say that. Like him about not being a great family man. You don't quite want to say it because there's still this element, oh, I just don't.

10:39Why is that still there, do you think? That's very interesting. I think I felt sorry for him. Really? Yeah, he was sad. It was sad. I think he, I don't know, his parents never showed him love. He told me that. All the girls, you know, he was dorky when he was young and all the girls that he had a crush on always went off with someone else and his first wife cheated on him. And I think he started the company and brand to like overcompensate from, for all that stuff. And he had a void he was trying to fill, you know, other people do it with different things. And he tried to do it with creating this persona and all these women.

11:21And he was just sad, sad. He was a sad old man at the end. And I felt sorry for him. And that's why he still wanted to be the man. And so I protected him and yeah. It's incredible loyalty for me though. It's weird. It is weird. Like Stockholm syndrome. That's exactly what I, it feels a little bit like that. I know. It's weird. But it's okay. It's so, cause at that point. It's so okay as well. Right. Cause I just, you know, you're, you know, I have, I have friends, I have, I have friends, right. That I, that I went to university with. And I, you know, so I spoke about this on my last podcast, you know, my parents weren't really around when I was a kid, but I, But my parents had some money and so they sent me to private schools and things like that.

12:03And I went to a boarding school and all that stuff. So I always looked up to men because people weren't around that much. So I always kind of idolised men, always wanted to be their friend, that kind of thing. And still to this day now, I have friends who I was great friends from school and things like that. But the ones who are older than me and idolise, I still now go back to that sort of child when I'm around them. And I still become this little... That's interesting Yeah it happens a lot Wow And I hate it when I do it I'm like why am I Why am I still trying to be Really funny around them Or acting like this And I'm like 35 What the hell's going on But you just do that naturally I think Yeah Yeah so when you When you talk about him Or things like that You sort of almost refer back to This sort of loyal person That you were Because you almost see You almost see him as this dorky guy So you feel sorry for him And so you go Actually you sort of see the side You see that vulnerable side of him Probably no one ever saw potentially potentially yeah yeah potentially was it was it real it's like was he was it real was it fake but when he when he died then were you sad i felt guilt which is weird get why are you feeling guilty well i thought was there anything we could have done to save him something that could have been done differently.

13:27But he was 91. Like he lived a good life. It's very weird that I felt that in the beginning. But why do you think you did? I have no idea. I didn't leave the house for six weeks. I went into another bedroom and was in there for six weeks and couldn't leave. And his children went out to dinner and the paparazzi were getting them. And I don't know how they could even leave the house. I just didn't leave the house.

13:52do you consider yourself an extrovert or introvert introvert 1 ,000 million really yeah it's like percent so introverted and why have you always known that yes I've always been shy introverted hiding behind my mom when I was younger she's the she's a leo and she's very outgoing, very extroverted. And so I think it made me kind of go the other way. What's your star sign? Taurus? I don't know why I even asked. I didn't know. What's yours? Scorpio. Okay. Water sign. I'm earth. We get along. It's cool. We get along? I can feel that, right? Can you feel that? We are getting along. Yeah, we're getting along.

14:35This is great. But it's, you're an introvert. So one would expect, right, that you wouldn't put yourself into that sort of limelight because you would almost shy away from it. I imagine it interprets from, you know, if I was to generalise, are people who sort of shy away from the limelight. They don't really like being in groups of people. They much more prefer being one-on-one. They're not loud, all those kind of things. And going into something like the Playboy Mansion and being part of that life, you always have to change your whole character. And that's then living a lie to yourself, which is detrimental in so many ways.

15:14Yeah, absolutely. You know, growing up, you would see the different celebrities and the big ones at the time were like Pamela Anderson, Jenny McCarthy, Carmen Electra. You're like, oh, these women like are so powerful and have the world at their feet. You're like, okay, like I want to be just like them. But yeah, so I guess I just started molding myself into this, you know, person I thought would be powerful or, you know, better off than I was. And yeah, I ended up at the Playboy Mansion and being introverted there is very, very hard. But I just, you lose yourself completely. That's, I became some other weird version that I dug out of who knows where.

15:55How does that happen? Because from my understanding, you know, you're sort of, you're very young and you get invited to go, is it to the Playboy Mansion? you get invited to or work with Playboy and you think it's this glamorous place. And that's when you first meet Hef. Is that right? Yeah. So I got invited to submit a photo to potentially go to a party. So I submitted a photo. I didn't think I'd get picked, but I ended up getting picked and invited to the Playboy Mansion Halloween party in 2008. But who says to you submit a photo? Who says that? A friend of mine had a contact. So she asked me if I wanted to submit a photo, potentially go with her.

16:43So she had a contact to, I don't know, one of the casting offices or something. Yeah. Yeah. And so you then submit the photo, it gets picked and you go. Yes. And what's it like when you first arrived? It was incredible. The house itself is massive and beautiful and it's on like five acres, like rolling hills. And it reminded me of like, I don't know, like a beautiful home, like in the countryside here. So it took me back a bit and there's this big winding drive and there's a sign that says playmates at play. So you go up and the house is just lit so well. And I remember there was women that came out and they had trays and they were all body painted.

17:30I'm like, whoa, are they like, what are they wearing? They're just body painted and they're like handing stuff on. I don't know. I remember what was on their tray. I was just like watching them like, whoa, this is crazy. and then go to the backyard, which is where like most of the party was and the stage. And it just, you know, the champagne's flowing and all these fancy things are there. And they spent a lot of money. They used to spend a lot of money on parties. Like I think it was like 400 ,000. 400 ,000 on one evening. Yeah. That is wild. Yeah. And you have celebrities and everyone there. Yeah.

18:07And then when was the first time you meet Hef? Well, we were walking around, checking out the party and the animals. There was a zoo there. It's just, just very incredible. It felt like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, you know, and Hef's Willy Wonka. And I hadn't seen any, I hadn't seen a celebrity in my life. And all of a sudden, there was a wave of people like coming from the house into where the cabanas were. And my friend, And like, she said, oh, that must be, she's my extroverted friend. It's like, oh, that must be Hugh Hefner. He's coming out. Let's go. And she's like, pulls me across.

18:39And we're following this crowd. And Hef goes into his cabana and sits down. And, you know, it's all roped off. And so she pulls me to the front and we're standing in front of the ropes. It's like in the book I talk about, it's like you're watching the animals in the enclosure, like Hef's in there with a couple of girls. And you're outside and they're in the enclosure. Like we're at the zoo, just checking them out. And my friend starts waving. He looks over at her and then his gaze kind of fell on me. And there's a photo of that moment in the book. Really? Somehow when Hef's staff took a photo of it.

19:16But yeah, I'm standing at the ropes. He's looking at me and I look back. I'm like, oh, it's me. And he motioned his security guards to come and bring me into the cabana. Whatever Hef wants, Hef gets. And so the crowd parted and I went into the cabana and sat right next to Hef. And my soul left my body at that point, I feel. Yeah. Strange. Were you feeling special? Yes. Feeling very chosen. Yeah. That's what it feels like a little bit. Like the little green aliens in Toy Story. Yeah. Yeah. That's literally what it is. It feels like that, right? You have been chosen. It's like going up on the claw.

20:00Because it does feel like that a little bit. You don't know where you're going, but it's, yeah, but you think it's going to be amazing, I guess. Because it must have felt amazing because this is the first time, you said it yourself, you'd never seen a celebrity, you'd never experienced this world, you never thought you were going to be picked, and then suddenly you're at this incredible party. And not only that, you're being picked by the king of the party. Yeah, I'm like, whoa. Yeah, it was weird. What was the first thing he said to you? he asked me what uh hi i'm hugh heffner and in my mind i'm like as if i don't know what your name is oh my god crystal and he asked me where i was from and what i did and i was like oh no he's asking me what my job is and i don't have a job because i was in school studying psychology but thinking back like that's even better right i'm younger so i said i'm in school i'm studying psychology um at san diego state and he said oh i studied psychology at the university of illinois And I'm like, oh, cool.

20:56Like something in common. And they just, yeah, we were just chatting for a while. And then he said, we have movies throughout the weekend. I'd like to invite you to come in the house and come stay for the weekend. And if you want to. And I was like, yeah, yeah. He was magnetic and charming. Is he charismatic? Is he charming? He is all those things. He must be, right? Yeah, yeah, he was. Yeah. And your friend at this point, where is she? Your extroverted friend is behind the rope? I don't know if we were separated on purpose or if it was because she wasn't his type physically. I'm not sure. But she didn't come.

21:33She was not invited. Looking back, that's kind of a big moment, right? It changed my life forever. Completely. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie, Sliding Doors, right? Who's the movie with Sliding Doors? Gwyneth Paltrow. Okay. Have you ever seen this? No. You've got to watch it. Okay. It's a movie where it's two lies, but Gwyneth Piper plays where she just misses a train by the door slide. But in the other story of her life, she gets on the train. And it's a point of these moments in life that we have that really change it. And that moment there that you walked at that point, you got to that business at that point.

22:08Butterfly, anything could have changed and your life would be completely different. Completely, yes. Is there any part, and this is a big question, any part of you that sort of doesn't, would change that moment? No. No, you don't regret any of that moment that that happened at all? No. Because it led to you doing all the things that you're doing? Yeah, I guess I also didn't know any better at that time. And, uh, yeah. So you, you then go to the Playboy mansion and you get invited in and how many people are living there at the time? What is it like? If you had to describe it again, what it was like then, what was it like?

22:50It was, it was surreal. It was beautiful. You know, Playboy is how they, you know, Hef wanted the world to feel that it was a place of freedom and expression. And so you just had this feeling in your body like, wow, this place is opulent and feeling of freedom and all the things. And the house was beautiful. You walk in and it's like marble everything. The wood panels are all carved. And then the staircase, the double staircase that goes up. And yeah, it was, it was gorgeous. And the art was great. um yeah you just feel you're transported to a whole new world and I live like apartment to apartment before that so seeing like carved wood and when I'm used to just playing walls it was it was very different I'll tell you a story the you know my this candy brand I was saying candy kittens right so that that's my sweet business amazing and I started it uh maybe now it was started 14 years ago, a long time ago.

23:59And the reason I started, so it was called it Candy Kittens. And I was sitting in, I was at university college at the time and I was sitting there and I was doing no work. And, um, one of my friends who I'm still friends with today said, what are you going to do? And I said, I'm going to set up a sweet company. She said, what are you going to call it? So I'm going to call it Candy Kittens. She said, why? I said, well, candy is the international term for sweets and the kittens are going to be the beautiful, amazing people to represent the brand. And I had modeled it off Playboy. What? Yeah. What?

24:26Yeah. wow and that's why the logo was similar and things like that because i was in is it still similar what's the logo the logo is the is a is a is a cat see that cat face yeah and um i then got it tattooed on my leg all these different things when i was younger so it's like the rabbit head logo but a cat was that the that was my inspiration behind it because i was a huge fan of of playboy i just i was a huge fan of i watched obviously the tv show girls the playboy mansion which was i grew up with. And I was just a huge fan of the brand when I, this is no word of a lie. When I was eight years old, I must've been maybe 10 years old.

25:07I went to a place called Club Med, which is like a place where you can go and it's all inclusive. So it's great for kids. You have scuba diving, surfing, whatever you want. And the food you pay on like stickers or whatever it is. and my parents had just got divorced at the time. So my mum took me and we went with family friends and every day I'd walk past a magazine store and on the top shelf was a Playboy. And every day I'd look at it. And I was 10 years old. Every day I'd look at it. And then my family, a family friend who recently, he was a great guy, he passed away. He one day, he saw me look at it every day and one day he bought it for me at 10 years old.

25:44And said, there you go. And gave it to you. So I had this fascination of it. Do you remember what issue it was or what year or anything like that? So I'm 35, so I must have been 10. So it was 25 years ago, whatever issue that was. And I still, my mum still has it because she found it. Yeah, we still have it at my home, at her home in like the attic. So it was amazing. And, you know, it's interesting, right? Because you're being in there and for you going in there, you're suddenly arriving at this sort of iconic kind of place. It must have felt incredibly surreal. Yeah, yeah, it did. Yeah, because everyone loved Playboy as we...

26:25Well, I understand the glamour and appeal. I totally get it. Yeah, what was it that drew you to it? It was the sense of freedom, but you see that, but on the darker side, you don't realise that there's a darker side to it all. Yeah, yeah. I understand how people, like the lifestyle and things. Yeah, I can understand that. When did you start getting close to Hef then? When did that start happening?

26:55Well, you know, Hef was very narcissistic. And so I think it's pretty hard to get that close to somebody who's that way. Can you explain what he, in terms of being a narcissist, what do you mean by that? What narcissistic traits did he have? Um, he was controlling. He was manipulative. He only wanted to speak about himself. He only wanted to, yeah, if any, he just wanted to talk about himself, his legacy, the company. People would bring articles about him and he'd love that. And so as long as I was talking about him or something to do with him, it was fine. and I just thought that was his personality and I know I didn't have the term then but it was his world and I don't know if he helped society or hurt it if I'm being honest what do you think he's done do you think he's hurt it or he's do you think he's hurt society a little bit well yeah because I do think beauty is subjective and what he's done he's just put the type of person he was attracted to in the magazine most of those years.

28:07And so it's like, he's, he's fed it to people just kind of what he likes. It wasn't really, you know, that much freedom, I don't think. Now I think it's gotten a bit better since the company sold and somebody else has it. I think it's more like more wide of a range and different people and values. But yeah, I mean, he was into that skinny blonde with implants look. And that was, so it's like, if you don't fit that, that you don't feel beautiful. Yeah. I didn't have implants. I didn't have blonde hair. And so you're like, okay, I'm not worthy. I don't have value. So I think that's, that's hard.

28:47And that's something he pushed out that was wrong. Yeah. Cause then that, if you don't feel worthy, that just breaks you down slowly or slowly cause you just don't think you're good enough. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you then start getting close to half. Is it competitive in there with other girls? And it really is. Yeah, it's very competitive. Feels like one big sort of band that you want to be the lead singer in. That's what it feels like a little bit, no? Yeah, more like a cult. It's a better way of putting it. I think like a group like, I was just going to say maybe like a group like the Pussycat Dolls or something like an actual like band or group had it better but I don't think they did to be honest because I'm friends with a couple of them and they're like that's she's like it was pretty intense so it was kind of like a what do you mean that was kind of a cult if you had to explain that well I've talked to a couple people who have been in cults and I feel that we related so much in what ways um just people pleasing mainly feeling like you're nothing without the specific person and being controlled manipulated everything do you think that was purposely done hef secretary once said to me hef takes in the broken ones and that really got to me so i'm like oh gosh like i was that's me really yeah And besides me, there were twins that lived there.

30:22They were 19. And they came from a pretty broken place as well. We all have vulnerabilities and we all have different things that we have growing up in lots of ways. You used to be spoke about, you had a lot of grief, you had a lot of different things going on. Yeah. Do you think you knew you were, were you anxious? Were you, you were obviously an introvert, you said. How were you broken, do you think? Like, how do you think you were broken in many ways? Before I went there? Yeah, before you went there. I think having faced so much grief and loss and having no money and just feeling that everyone's better than me.

31:01My mom remarried to get her green card in America, this guy named Lyle. I mentioned him in the book. And he had a daughter that he treated really well, and he treated me terribly. So I learned quickly to just keep myself small, make sure everyone else is happy. So I think that was the perfect type of personality to be at the mansion. And I didn't know who I was at all. And because I didn't know who I was, it was dictated to me by Hef. And that's dangerous. I talk about that where if you don't know who you are, it can be dictated to you by someone else. And the one that's given to you can also be taken away.

31:40so I think it's very important to just know who you are and have um you know value yourself higher than I did it's so hard though especially in our early ages we don't know who we are no I didn't like you I have no idea like at least

31:58yeah I don't it's interesting right you know we we typically we all kind of go into adulthood when we're sort of 18 years old or that's what people think but 18 we're so young we have no idea what we're doing. Like I have no clue. And so you can be molded by all these other people. Yeah. Yeah. It took me until my thirties to figure out who I was. Cause I mean, I left the mansion at 31 and then I think it starts small. Uh, I remember somebody asking me in my thirties after the mansion, like, what do you like? And I, I thought to myself, I'm like, I don't know. Like, what do I like? And it's so simple.

32:39I just didn't know. And so I thought about it. Like, what do I like? Like, oh, I like to travel. I started traveling. I really like traveling. I really like spending time with my dog. You know, I really like going to Hawaii. I started going to Hawaii. So I bought a farm there. Like, I really liked that and being in nature and I like Disneyland. So, so it's finding yourself that way, like for people who don't, they're having a hard time with that and like finding themselves, start, maybe just start small like that. Like, what do I like? And just really dive into that. And it helps, it helps with your inner compass and inner voice.

33:19Let that be stronger. And yeah, I think that started me on my, on my path.

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35:05How do you deflect? Because you've had such an interesting life and I can imagine that sometimes people ask you questions that you don't want or don't like. How do you deflect that? Or do you just answer it straight up? Do you say if someone's being rude, you're being rude? Yeah, now I do. But before I didn't. I didn't have the tools before, but now I do. Wait, before you couldn't hit back because you felt like you couldn't say what you want to say as someone's being rude. Yeah, yeah. Especially when I lived at the Playboy Mansion, I was just half shadow and, you know, be seen and not heard. And people would ask me horrible questions.

35:40I was like a low hanging fruit. I was a target for a lot of the media and they asked me terrible things and just grinned and bared it. And now when people ask me things and I don't like it, I'll definitely, you know, clap back. Like yesterday, Pierce Morgan, I was getting mixed reviews of how it would be and like, well, whatever he says, I'm ready. So it was good. It's so funny. When I first started doing this podcast, we had a big guest on an actor. This was years ago, eight years ago. And he came on and he was so rude. Like so rude. Yeah. So rude. And I didn't say anything. Nothing. I just sat there and just took it.

36:19He was rude about me. He was rude about everything. It's like he didn't want to be there. And when he left, I was so annoyed that I didn't say anything. I wish I had said, why are you here if you're just going to be rude? I didn't say that. And even he sent an email afterwards. It's very rude. He said to our producer, can you take out the bits where I was a C-U-N-T? Wrote that in an email. And now when you get old, I'm 35 now, you have the strength that if someone says something to you, you should always hit back. But when you're younger, we just don't do that. No. Have you called him out since?

36:49No, still haven't. I'm too scared. You haven't? I'm too scared. I couldn't do it. Really? Yeah, well, I could. The problem is, is that I'm... Like, tell us. It's not that interesting. Yeah. Okay. Was Brad Pitt? No.

37:05It wasn't. But it's because I'm... I think, like you, I'm a sort of big... I'm a bit of a people pleaser. Yes, it's very hard. I don't know if it's the generation we grew up in or what that was about. When did you realize that you were a people pleaser? I think not until after the mansion. Really? Yeah. Until I went to therapy and realized all the resentment I had was from being a people pleaser. It's interesting though, because when you're a people pleaser, it sort of manifests in different ways. Like mine is constantly wanting to be liked. I always said that for so long, constantly. So I would say things and do things in certain scenarios that just would be baffling to me, but I would be doing it because I wanted that person to like me.

37:50How did yours manifest itself? I think it's just keeping myself small and letting other people rise, especially with Hef. Just, you know, anything he wanted. I became his mirror, like reflecting his self-importance back at him and just stayed small. You stay small and let other people shine and just, yeah, anything anybody needs. And you lose yourself and then you get resentful and it's hard. You don't want to be at the end of your life just regretting everything. It's true though, right? But it's sometimes quite hard to kind of see the light. And when you're in it, you know, you don't realize how you've been treated or how you've behaved or what you've done until you step out of it and go, God, what was I doing in that scenario?

38:43Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, people ask me a lot, like, oh, why did you stay? And if it was so bad, why did you say like, I didn't have the tools and I didn't realize then it took me like in time and space to realize what went on that, what went on there. And, you know, we have, we talk about mental health more now and we have terms now that we didn't have when I was there. You know, I didn't really know what a boundary was when I was in the mansion. I didn't really know what a narcissist was when I was in the mansion. And I just assumed that was Hef's personality, just had a strong personality and liked what he liked.

39:21But yeah, misogyny. This was pre-Me Too when I lived there. Me Too happened a month after Hef died. So, yeah. Wow. It's just, you just think, oh, this is the way it is. And the media praises him and everything's, everyone loves him. So you just think, okay, maybe something's wrong with me and I need to, you know, just work on myself. When people say those things to you, why didn't you leave? I hope you now hit back at them and just, and you, or you just say, don't ask me a fucking stupid question. You should say that now. Yeah, yeah. I, yeah, yeah. I started off by just, I don't know. Now I ask people like, have you read the book?

40:05Because it's in the book. And the, you know, the first media thing I did, like here, he kept drilling it, drilling it, drilling it, drilling it. And I just thought, has he read the book? and but then then we stopped talking and he was rude to his staff that worked for him so i'm like okay this explains it that feels like a cop-out what is the what is the response from the book the response oh my gosh yeah when i put it out i thought okay this however it'll be received is that you know everyone's just gonna see whatever like everything's a reflection of yourself, right? Like whatever projection.

40:47I didn't know how it was going to be received, but I knew I had told the story in the most truthful and best way that I could. And people loved it. I started getting so many messages saying that people, that they could relate and it helped them get through the hard time they're in. So many things like I wanted to be a playmate i wanted to be part of playboy now i'm in my regular house in the middle of america and i'm i'm happy and thank you and just so many people it's been overwhelming i'm trying to write back to everybody and i found out in the first week i became an instant new york times bestseller it's amazing so yeah it's it's been it's been great that's a great moment when you heard were you like yeah yeah that was a moment where i truly feel i had taken back my power yeah because it must be scary for you as well because as you said yourself being called gold digger and these different names and all these different stuff horrible names right to then release this story is ah my god because you have no clue what is going to happen You have to basically just go, okay, well, what it's going to be is going to be now.

42:10Yeah. And all the girls that looked up to me when I was at the mansion, because of being at the mansion, you know, all these girls that were following my life and fans and fans that became friends. And I thought, oh, how are they going to react? Because everything they liked or was drawn to about me is a lie, I guess, is the best way to put it. And it was received so well by them. I'm so proud of you for telling your truth like team crystal forever and I related to it so it's it's been wonderful I think your story is really empowering especially for women thank you I really do right because I think I kind of see sometimes and she hates it sometimes I see it with my my little sister she's not that little she's she's old but I call her my little sister.

42:56She's 30. But she is definitely quite vulnerable. And she has been molded a lot of the time, but I see it by men, right? Because she just people pleases and wants to become something that they want her to be. And I think your story really helps typically women, and I'm sure men, but women for sure, to realize they don't need to follow a certain road and can become empowered and choose what they want to do. Yeah. Is that important to you for women to realize that? I think it's extremely important because, you know, if you don't realize that, then you end up in bad relationships. You end up in abusive relationships and relationships where you're disrespected.

43:43And no one deserves that. You know, if it's anything less than nurturing, like run, because we just need to be treated with respect and kindness. Feel safe. Don't feel like you have to change for anyone. Just be safe and feel safe to be yourself. Being in a... Because it feels like the relationship that you had, because it's almost like you had a relationship with Hef, but it was more a relationship with this whole corporation in a way. And that's all psychologically. That is incredibly tough. because you're just, you know, we talk about abusive relationships, right? And that's an abusive relationship.

44:29We can kind of go, that's so hurtful because we see the bruises, we see the scars and we go, this is wrong. When it's psychological, it's much harder to define it, isn't it? Yeah. Emotional abuse, financial abuse, a lot of, a lot of that happened there. And what was the financial abuse? Well, you know, Hefwood give us little bits of money here and there, but never enough to be substantial because he never wanted to give us enough to where we could leave. So it was financial abuse in that way. And every Friday he would make us like ask for it or beg for what he called allowance. It's like a thousand dollars every Friday.

45:04And you'd have to go into his room and say, Oh, Hef, can I have my allowance? And then he'd open the thing with his key. It was like a whole, whole thing. And then count like 100, 200. Get out of here. And then collect the little pile and hand it yeah it's it was demoralizing it was terrible and that whole place like and it's pre me too yeah so all heff's friends were weird and and you just assume well this is just how men are but most men don't act that way and i do believe that it was some weird like social experiment in time that will never be repeated again it can't ever be repeated again.

45:46The world has shifted and yeah, just I'm collateral damage from that, from that time. When, now that you have, having written the book and now where you are now, what have you discovered about your, your character that you didn't realize you were? I think I'm stronger than I thought I was. I'm smarter than I thought I was. And I can accomplish more than I ever thought I could. Really? And I think that's inside everybody. Completely. Yeah. But it's hard, like I said, to realize that until you get out of these situations, then sort of go, right, you know, because you've got the strength now to write the story.

46:23And most people don't, when they've been through hard times, don't really talk about the story. What gave you the strength to write the story? I think understanding what it was over time. And okay, a lot of people, you know, not a lot of people lived in the Playboy Mansion, but a lot of people have been in terrible relationships and can relate to this or have problems with self-worth or image, self-love. So I'm like, okay, I need to write this. I need to write this because I've controlled the narrative for so long. People thought we're all happy there and people need to know the truth. Like I need to tell the truth.

47:01If anything for the girls that were following me along and thinking it was all glamorous and great. And I need them to know what it was really like. You had some resilience there because you were able to leave Heth. Yeah. And that is insane. And then, you know, I showed the image of the Playboy cover, which was famously said, Runaway Bride. Yes. Yeah. We were shooting a cover and I ran away, but I came back. But you ran away. I did. And that's the most important part. Like coming back, okay, fine. I understand. There's probably reasons behind that, but you, you had that strength to go, you know what, this is not right.

47:44Cause that, that's my God. Like that is a, out of any time to run away, that's a big time. Yeah. Five days before the wedding. I just, I had had enough at that point. I was being controlled so much. Like he would tell me, wear a more colorful shirt, wear the flag, which would be the Playboy bunny logo, like wear something that has it on, wear a necklace, shirt or anything. And he would hit me, like tap my thigh, like tone up, you need to go tone up. So that's how it started. And then it got into the financial stuff, having to like ask for money. It was awkward. Then we got engaged or he just handed me a ring and this whole wedding planning started and 300 people were invited.

48:28We started getting RSVPs from like Gene Simmons and Paris Hilton and all these people that, like, I'm so introverted. This is so uncomfortable. Then he handed me paperwork because he set up to film a special on, I don't remember where, but it was a two-hour special called Marrying Hef. And I had overheard him speaking something about it, something about $800 ,000. So like, oh, that's what he's being paid. And he gave me a release form that said talent fee of 2 ,500. And, and I thought, okay, you know, I, I don't expect half, but maybe like 10 ,000 or something where am I, like that he respects me in some way.

49:14Um. But also when you look at it, you're, I know that is, you're being paid a talent fee to marry him. Yeah. That's that, that was when I ran away. good on you okay well because i asked him i asked him oh maybe 10 000 and he says what are you in this for and it immediately took me back like ptsd from all the interviews and all the things gold digger and all this because i hadn't asked for him for anything really just this allowance each week but yeah like this is this sucks do you know what is just from a if you look at it from a brand. It feels like there's this obsession over himself and over Playboy.

49:58That's what it is. And money and this power and all these different things. That's what he's obsessed with. But you running away almost led into that narrative, well, we can sell more as a magazine covers. Yeah, it was one of the highest selling, top grossing issues of all time. So yeah, I put the Runaway Bride sticker on, sold tons of magazines. it's just yeah yeah i guess i didn't even think about that until now that part of it yeah i just profit it's interesting because people now are saying oh you're writing a book and you're profiting off of a dead man and you know there isn't huge money in in books these days and um like what about when he profited off of me for so long way more money than i would ever see trying to profit off of him or whatever.

50:51And you should be strong about that. You should be. You should really be strong. Because I'm not even in your body and it's frustrating me. Because he gave you a talent fee to shoot a TV show about getting married to him. It's crazy. He then profits off the fact that you run away. And for him, that fits his narrative. Oh, this is going to sell more magazine covers. Great, let's do that. And he went straight to Piers Morgan after that. And I just thought, oh, if you're sad, why do you go the next day and talk about your breakup? on air in the media. It's really strange. Yeah. Sometimes I just don't have the words when people attack me still, because it takes me back and it just makes me feel uncomfortable.

51:33But especially when people say, why did you stay? If it was so bad, why did you stay? Why did you stay? Why don't we ask the people who abuse people, why are you abusing people? Instead, we ask the other the other people why did you stay it's it's really strange yeah because it's because it's um why do why do we say that we say that because it's because we try and put ourselves in the situation we go well i'd leave i'd leave of course i would leave no you freaking wouldn't if you're feeling vulnerable and you're stuck and you have you don't know what's going on and you feel like this is okay i i i'm this is the i'm going to try and relate it to something but it's not a good comparison but when I did that television show that reality show for 10 years right the reason I didn't go is because I was so scared of what was on the other side right I didn't want to go so I stayed in it how soon did you were you over it like how many years in or how many seasons pretty pretty soon in okay yeah but sounds familiar yeah you know what I mean but pretty soon in and I left because I fell in love and realized I had to leave that's where I left um And that was an easier way to leave.

52:42And it's no comparison. Yeah, I was manipulated, but I wasn't kept captive. You know, there are similarities in a way. I don't really want to compare it actually at all, but we were given money and we were given some sort of fame and we were told this is what times you have to do, this is what you have to wear, this is what you have to look like, this is the drama you have to create. If you don't create enough drama, then you're not going to be in any scenes. So it was a food chain for sure. It was hectic. Yeah, it sucks telling you who to be, what to do, who to be. But that led me to feeling I just every day was anxious.

53:16Yeah, it eats at your soul, I think. My God. Every day I was anxious. Would you wake up every day just feeling? Because when you're not living your true self, that's when really your soul gets. Yeah, anxiety, paranoia. Yeah, there was nowhere I could really have privacy. And I would see shadows of someone walking by the door. I always thought it was someone listening to every conversation I have when I call my mom and say, I hate it. I feel trapped. Yeah, it's very, yeah, anxious feeling, paranoia. Do you still want to be small? Because you said earlier that you just wanted to be small. Do you still want to be small?

53:56No, no, I don't think I'm small anymore, but I'm still introverted. So I don't, I'm not someone who wants to be famous or anything like that. Like I just, yeah, just want to show up and tell my story and hopefully help people. Really? You still have your name Hefner. Yes. But your original name is Harris. Yes. Are you going to change back to Harris? Yes. So I'm talking to like Twitter and X. Oh no, X now. X. You're trying to Elon. And Instagram and all those to try and figure out how to. Swap all that back. Yeah. I don't need that name. Because your story is honestly amazing. And I just, and what I just love is that you're just, you really are empowering, I think, women out there who are in similar situations, perhaps feeling stuck in relationships or stuck in scenarios that they can't escape from.

54:51And I think you're giving them the strength to get out. So I just encourage people to read that book. Thank you. A hundred percent. We like to end the podcast with eight questions. and you can take as long or as short of them as you want. And you said to me, you were asked these, but you were like, these are weird questions. But try. I didn't think of any answers yesterday. We'll do it together. I still can't. Yeah, you can. We've got this. We've got this together. We're going to do it together. You ready for this? Yeah, I think I know the first one and I don't know. It's like a phrase or saying.

55:23Okay, the first question is, what saying or phrase or something, there's something that cheers you up or makes you smile. It can be anything you want. Hakuna Matata Told you we did it together There you go, it's great The song you had stuck in your head It was stuck in your head So I thought of Hakuna Matata What is the best compliment Anyone's ever given you? I think something that has nothing to do with what I look like Anything I mean now I'm getting older So I'll get more of those hopefully But yeah Something about who I am as a person That's amazing. You must get incredible responses from the book and from the women.

56:06I'm sure that must be amazing as well all the time. I love it. And I try and share them as much as possible so that other people can read them and not feel alone. What scares you the most about yourself? I think I'm afraid to get stuck in a bad situation again. That's fair. But maybe I've evolved where that won't happen. When was the last time you cried? When the whole publishing team called me and said the book became a bestseller. That's good. That's great. What's something you can't let go of? I think I'm still fearful about a lot of things. So fear. Great answer. What's something you'd be embarrassed for people to know you like or want?

56:59these are hard they are i don't know like i love singing spice girl songs you do love it i love it i play them loud yeah yeah i mean i'm i'm obsessed with disneyland like i have a like a soho membership but to disneyland sorry what's that what is that it's like it's called Club 33. Okay. So I guess some people think that's sounds cool. Yeah. Anything Disney related, I think, because a lot of people say it's for kids, but it's not. Favorite Disney princess? Ariel, Little Mermaid. Great shout. What turns you off?

57:42Misogyny. Great answer. What turns you on? Respect. What do you like most about yourself? My ambition Great answer And for a bonus one What's your favourite swear word? None of them You're not going to do it Okay Krista thank you so much That was honestly amazing Thank you so much It's been incredible And just you know being such a, you know, just a viewer of everything that The Playboy is about and then speaking to you and seeing how you're a credible book and it's empowering so many people. It's amazing. So thank you so much and thank you for sharing your story. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

58:36Wow. What a story. Do you know what? We were so right. Introverted opened up more as we got into the episode. Yeah, yeah. She was amazing wasn't she? She was really amazing She really opened up And her story Oh my god It's so insane to see Like perspective Right you I remember watching The Girls of the Playboy Mansion The TV show And just seeing their lives And just being like God how fun would that be? How fun would it be To live in this Playboy Mansion And live this life And be on TV And be a part of Hugh Hefner's No Yeah It would not be fun Yeah And it's so that's what I love about this job is like getting to be in the same room as someone like that and meeting them and hearing the un I mean I know I'm producing it but the unproduced unfiltered side from them and seeing them they're real people I really love that interview and I want to say a big thank you for Crystal for coming on yeah because I think she had a busy day as well with lots of different stuff going on yeah flying visit we'll put the link in the bio yeah so you can go and get the book everything else is in the bio as well if you want to follow us on Instagram, if you want to send us any messages, if you want to follow us on YouTube and if you want to follow the show, you can as well.

59:51And just a big thank you to you, the listener. Thank you so much for enjoying this. Please share it with everyone. It makes a big difference for us. So if you're listening to this and you enjoyed it, please tell other people about the podcast. And we're going to see you next Wednesday. For more amazing... We have, honestly, this is my little pitch, but definitely follow because we have amazing guests. We have incredible guests coming up. It's going to be, I'm so, anyway, I don't want to go because I'm so excited. But thank you so much for listening. And we'll see you next Wednesday for another episode of Great Company.

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1:01:09Nicotine is an addictive chemical. shameless is the pop culture podcast for smart people who love dumb stuff i'm mish and every monday and thursday i'm joined by my coho sarah hello i am sarah every monday we go deep on a big culture story like why you love the summer i turned pretty so much or why you keep seeing so many celebrities announcing they have lyme disease on thursdays we welcome you to the quick and dirty also known as the biggest sugary headlines of the week our episodes have been listened to over a million times, search for Shameless in your favourite podcast platform to see why.