DANIEL MAYS: I've Worked with Hollywood’s Biggest Stars But I Still Sometimes Feel Like an Imposter

0:00Going from being an Essex boy with your brothers playing football to suddenly going doing jazz and wearing a leotard. Those are two separate worlds colliding. Literally head off. It felt like I was leaving that life that I'd known. How old were you at that point? I was like 13. It's young isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was terrified when I first went to RADA. Really? I've harnessed to God, I was like, I just sort of clammed up and I thought I'm way out of my depth here. Feeling just so in fear and that imposter syndrome was kicking in. Hi, I'm Danny Mays and I'm in great company Danny Mays I got nominated for a BAFTA for Line of Duty When they say someone else's name there's a camera pointing at you right at that moment you're like, where do I look?

0:45And then you just have to go Well done, Tom! And what's one role you missed out on? Oh, the cast and director walked me down the corridor to the lift I remember the door shutting like that. You were wonderful. Just really great. I didn't end up getting it. It's a harrowing story. It's a heavy role. It's a heavy role. One of Britain's worst ever sexual predecessors. Nicknamed the Black Cab Rapist. I underestimated it. And I heard that you had to take some counselling afterwards. Yeah, and it was just very isolating. And again, I was like, I don't need to talk to a counsellor. But I ended up talking to the counsellors and it was really invaluable.

1:25Because I'll tell you what it was, Jamie. me. Our daughter is 13 now. As a parent, it absolutely terrified me. Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.

2:03Think of a toilet as just an everyday object. Your entire perspective shifts the moment you experience a Kohler smart toilet. Design changes everything, transforming a basic routine into something extraordinary. With standout aesthetics and intuitive controls, these are functional works of art. Stunning design that never sacrifices performance. Enjoy customizable features for elevated comfort and convenience. It's more than a fixture. It's a cleaner routine and a more refined space. Experience the difference of Kohler smart toilets. Find more at Kohler.com. Guys, welcome back. Really excited for today's show because we have Daniel Mays on, one of UK's greatest actors.

2:47When you see his face, you know exactly who he is. Today's episode, we talk about the industry. We talk about acting. We talk about his life. We go everywhere, all over the place, including his newest role, which is harrowing for so many reasons. Now, if you haven't yet subscribed to our show, if you could, you could join the community of incredible people. It's completely for free. And also it helps us keep getting better guests, keep making the show better for you every single week. If you can do that one thing, thank you so much. okay enjoy this insane episode of great company with daniel mays you're not sure i have cameras here are you you must be used to this many cameras hey come on um when i was on eastenders yeah when i did four that's multi-cameras in it on soaps um is it yeah yeah that's the first thing i did was four episodes on eastenders and it was like i think it's like three cameras filming you at once and you get like two takes if you're lucky it was like a back whoa whoa slow that out Are you kidding me?

3:41So you go two takes, that's it? Pretty much. It was like a baptism of fire. It was just insane. Like, I have absolute admiration for soap actors because they do all the homework, you know, on their own. And they come and they go, right, okay, here you go. You got, that's right. You got the dialogue in the right way. You didn't bump into the furniture. Move on. It was really quick. Because you were Kevin in EastEnders. Kevin. Yeah, so you were Kevin in EastEnders. I was Kat Slater's ex-boyfriend Who chose When they first landed in Albert Square I was her boyfriend And she didn't tell me that she'd moved there So he turns up And he chains himself to the gate He jumps on top of the taxi He has the bedpan thrown over him I mean it was Bit extreme It was comedy gold It was That was my first gig though Can you imagine?

4:31So that's fresh out of rodder Yeah but I didn't work for six months I couldn't I literally couldn't get arrested and I was like, what do I do now? I've got all my eggs in one basket and I was just thankful that I got a part, you know, and it was Julia Cramsey was the casting director and it was four episodes and there I was, my first professional scene coming out of drama school was with Tamsin Alfreight in the Queen Vic. It's just surreal, you know. It's bonkers. But I was like, I didn't want to get typecast, you know. I didn't want to get bogged down in that. You knew that from a very early age, So when you first started, you were like, I don't want to be typecast.

5:09I don't want to be typecast. Yeah, yeah. And then like Julia Cramsey then got me my next job, which was like a neo-Nazi bomber on this thing called In Deep with Nick Berry and Steve Tompkinson. And I was like, I don't want to be typecast. I don't want to be typecast. Yeah. But she was great. I mean, God, I owe so much to Julia Cramsey. I mean, where would I be without her? She was amazing. So she saw something. I mean, that's what you need. Like young actors always say you've got to get casting directors on your side. get someone fighting in your corner that believes in you and it all starts to happen so that's really good advice because what i always want from like a show like this right is for like someone listening is such a big fan of yours right yeah who perhaps is like from the same place you grew up or in the industry or whatever it is that advice of saying have someone in your corner rooting for you but how do you find that person how did you find that person um you they just sort of circle around you you know you I did three years at drama school and it's like you you never know like who's sort of watching you there'll be like a producer or a director or casting director that's seen you in a production or you just you've always got to have that mentality that you know every job is worthwhile give it 110 with everything you do and work will breed work.

6:23I always remember when I did, this just springs to mind, I did this movie, 1917. Great movie. It was a great movie, wonderful film. And all these actors were in it, like Mark Strong and Benedict Cumberbatch. And we all had one or two scenes. Wasn't it the one shot? It was all one shot. It wasn't actually one shot. They lied to me. It wasn't like an episode of adolescence. They did lie to you. There was editing here and there. but Stephen Graham loves the one shot Stephen Graham is the one shot king but it was I was just playing like this Sergeant in it and I always remember like we filmed it on Salisbury Plain and like I'd never met Sam Mendes before and they were like obviously Sam wants to say hello talk a bit about the character I was like yeah great fine brilliant I'd love to meet him see if we can do this movie together and I sat down in his trailer and he says great to meet you Danny I saw you at the Donmar Warehouse I saw you at the National and I was completely unaware that he was there in the audience and I thought, you know, you just never know.

7:26That's really good advice. Yeah. There's a great saying, which is your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room, right? Yeah, that's great. Which is where you have to, basically, it doesn't matter, whatever you do, you always give 100%. If you're in a room with people, you be kind. Yeah. Because you never know who's going to be anywhere. Yeah. Be nice to everyone on the way up because you never know who you meet on the way down. Well, it's like, you know, you can do a short film with a director that has amazing potential, you never know where that person's going to end up.

7:52And I always think there's always merit in every project that you commit to, within reason. No, but do you know what I'm saying? So what is the one that you've committed to that won? But you grew up in Essex, right? Yeah, Buckhurst Hill. Okay, so what was family life like? It was great. I mean, I'm one of four boys, two older brothers, one younger, you know, no girls in the family, only mum. So it was loud. It was boisterous. It was sports mad, but incredibly loving. I'm blessed that I had parents that were really kind of supportive. You know, my dad is still an electrician to this day. My mum was a bank cashier, you know, so sort of working class family as such, really.

8:44and, you know, they sacrificed a hell of a lot in me pursuing the dream that I wanted to be an actor, you know. My older brother, one's a cricket groundsman. Johnny, like, works in waste disposal. My younger brother is a money broker in the city at Canary Wharf. So we all do kind of completely different things. But we were all great at sport. Like, my tour, we were all great footballers. Were you good? I was good. I know I was captain of my Sunday league team, Loughton boys. I had to just throw in that I was captain, didn't I? No, do you know what I do? Just had to throw that in. Do you know what I do?

9:24People ask me, I go, I still hold the javelin record at my school. And you know what? I still check the record at my school to see if it's been beaten. For some reason, I was captain as well of football. Yeah. But when you're a kid, you think you're great, right? And I was never as good as my brothers. Were they very good? They were good. I mean, they had like trials for district football and all that sort of stuff. But it was that thing of like middle child syndrome of wanting to try something different in order to be heard and recognized. Because it's a sort of, you know, we didn't have a huge house or anything.

9:58So it was, we were all crammed in the house in Essex and you're sort of fighting to sort of be recognized and heard. So the acting thing was sort of completely left field, really. It's funny how that happens with middle child. I'm middle child as well. Yeah. I don't know about it for you, but for me, I remember thinking about entertainment and being on stage or being in movies or being in theatre plays at school. It was like that idea of being seen, right? Yeah. That was the most exciting thing. Like, oh, wait, I can be seen here and then congratulated for this thing. Yeah, yeah. So that feels exciting.

10:30Yeah. Basically feeding that deep insecurity. It is. I'll tell you what, the first ever performance thing I ever did was at primary school. Yeah. I remember this now, and we put on a production or a stage show of 40 Towers, and I got cast as, I eventually got cast as Basil Forty. I auditioned for Basil Forty and didn't get it. Sorry, this is a primary film. This is a primary film. Yeah, they helped audition to, God, that sounds harsh, doesn't it? Anyway, I didn't get it, and a kid called Glenn Watts got the part, and then Glenn was really naughty and they took the role away from him and I segued in and took the role of Basil.

11:16I can't believe I'm telling you this and I can't believe I actually remember Glenn Watts. Isn't it amazing? It's amazing. I can't tell you what I did last week. You remember Glenn? Yeah, I remember Glenn Watts. But I can distinctly remember going out on the stage and landing a joke and getting that sort of wave of laughter, that sort of acceptance. And it's like a drug, isn't it? It's like that adrenaline that it sort of gives you. I mean, it's the age-old thing of like, why do actors act? Like, what makes a performer? It is essentially standing on stage or in the middle of the room wanting everyone to sort of notice you in a weird sort of way.

12:01That's what it's all about. I mean, it's a mad way to make a living, really, when you think of it on those terms. it's a total mad way to make a living because you're basically you're making a living playing other people yeah sometimes you catch yourself thinking have i really chosen this as my yeah life's work it's insane right yeah but i mean there's there's there's pros and cons to it you know to to to go into theater and you said your parents sacrificed a lot what did your sacrifice for you to do drama well my mom for instance she um she was a bank cashier at midland bank and um I did when I went so I went to Italia Conti stage school first before going to RADA but how old you when you did that day so I did two years at like normal secondary school and then I auditioned I actually auditioned in the second year for Italia Conti and um got in and just couldn't do it because I couldn't leave that you know the normality of like a comprehensive in Essex and that no I couldn't imagine myself getting on the central line going from Buckersteele up to the Barbican and I bottled it and I didn't do it.

13:05Well, you break that down for me. Why, though? I don't know what it was. I was sort of just intimidated by it. It was too, for me being that young, it just felt like too much of a leap, you know. Felt out of your league? Possible, possibly, yeah. There was a sort of, I was just scared of it. I didn't think, because I'd gone to a local dance school. That's where it all started, stage one. and um for some reason i didn't go in the second year and then it was like an itch i couldn't stop scratching and i went and like i remember my friend caroline who was the dance teacher at stage one said look you've got an app a talent for this you've got an enthusiasm like sort of reconsider it and i auditioned again and then i got in so i went like the third year of secondary school and there i was in my italia conci blue uniform you know up on i mean it was a it was a massive departure you know because I it was it was it felt like I was leaving you know that life that I'd known and yeah because I I'm an Essex boy but in a in a weird way I consider myself far more of a Londoner now because I was commuting up there and I was just mixing with so many different varieties of people that it just sort of opened up my world really how old are you at that point i was like 13 it's young isn't it yeah yeah yeah when i think about it now yeah you to do that commute every day five times a week um but absolutely i mean then and then i'm like doing jazz i'm doing ballet i'm doing modern i'm doing acting and you know in the afternoon then i'm doing schoolwork in the um in the mornings and so it was just the mate like stage corp was like it is a bit like fame i want to live forever do you know what i mean there is an element of that you know everyone's walking around in leotards and all this sort of stuff it's kind of crazy um and the the funny thing about conti is that it had a working agency at the top of the building yeah so um i always remember like you know if your name was on the board it said come up to the agency you're like oh my like you know there's an audition and you'd sort of run up there sometimes you'd get the lift if you wanted to be a bit naughty anyway but you'd go in there and you'd have like a commercial casting or something like that and so yeah it was like a sort of you know you were sort of a professional working actor as well as a kid you know i grew up in billy elliott oh right yeah yeah you know that that was like the first theater show i ever went to as a kid yeah yeah amazing show yeah i've seen it on stage yeah it's amazing right yeah and it you know and the story of billy elliott is like you know sort of tough lad going into like yeah this world of dance yeah and i could really relate to that it feels that way right because yeah how do i sort of things are sort of changed but this is a few years ago right yeah and going from being an essex boy with your brothers playing football to suddenly going doing jazz and wearing a leotard that's it those are those are two separate worlds colliding yeah they are so how does that literally head on yeah i still have nightmares about boys ballet i woke up wake up in a cold sweat don't worry it's just a dream because talk we through that right because Because that for me, right, when I was 13 years old or 12 years old, around that time, I was like so desperate to like fit in.

16:20Yeah. This was all I was caring about, right? It was like fitting in and that kind of never really left me. Still with me a little bit, right? But especially at that age, but doing something against the grain, like going to, firstly going to a stage school like that and doing dance and everything that involves, but also having the confidence to know that's what you want to do. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a unique mentality. Yeah. I mean, look, in terms of like what made me want to do it in the first place, it was going to see Michael Jackson live at the Bad Tour at Wembley. 1988, wasn't it? 1988.

16:53That was a light bulb moment. And I was probably, how old was I then? I don't know, about like 10 or something, maybe a bit younger. My mum took me and it was like, what is that? That was like, in terms of like seeing a performance, I'd never, it was just like electricity. It's like Billy Elliot, he says, I feel like electricity. And it was like that. I'd never seen anything like it i'd never i'd never been in that sea of people like that and sort of scratching my thinking all of these people have congregated in this one stadium for this one person then he came out and was just like breathtaking do you still remember it now oh my god it was like it was um it was uh yeah it was like like the world stopped for me you know but it wasn't it was it was the music but it was um it was the dance it was the way that he moved So that became my like party piece.

17:42That was like, I locked myself in my room and I got the hat and the glove and just perfected all the moves. So every school disco I went to, if Billie Jean came on or something like, the way you make me feel, it was like all the kids used to go, Daddy, Daddy. And they used to perform a surfboard. I don't have the hat. No, no. Let's move the table out of the way. I still do it at weddings. You know what I mean? Surely we can see a little bit. no no i've got trouble with my hamstrings lately you know really but yeah so that was like the first that was out where it all started that led to sort of stage school and then uh on to rada when i just wanted to be a serious actor sort of but yeah what is your passion like is your passion still in dance or is it more in the sort of traditional acting no i got i mean i got you know um around about 16 17 and um then i started just getting into like independent american movies and i was watching people like de niro and pacino and gene hackman and all that like and you suddenly go hackman what you just sort of go uh i recognized very early on that you know a dancer's life a dancer's shelf life for instance is a bit like a footballer it's only so long because your body can only sustain it for a certain amount of time but with acting I was like the longevity that comes with that as a career is sort of you can just go on and on with it you know unless people get really bored of watching it but there was to me just I just again you know my favorite actor in the world is Robert De Niro and I had the same sort of you know idolization of Michael Jackson as I did with De Niro because I just thought, I always remember, like I'm a painter as well, I remember doing GCSE art on my mum and dad's dining table at home.

19:37Okay, that's a good place to do it. Yeah, right in the middle of all the noise and everything else. But it was like a retrospective of De Niro films on Channel 4 and every Sunday they'd have a different movie. So you'd have Deer Hunter one week, then Taxi Driver, them raging ball and i was just this is and i i was staggered that all these performances were coming from the same individual why because it was so different they were so different and so engaging and so alive but yeah it was the variety i mean you know he's a consummate character actor isn't he he's so and i've always been drawn to those type of actors like the daniel day lewises and the you know uh denzel washington's and gary oldman's where they're so their characterizations are so in-depth and so varied that they're so good at it, they've just become lead actors.

20:30Do you know what I mean? Danny, I'm a huge movie buff, right? I've actually never seen Taxi Driver. Have you never seen it? I've seen Raging Bull. I've seen Taxi Driver. I've never seen Raging Bull. Never seen Raging Bull. Well, it's always a toss-up for me between the two of those who are like, what's my favourite De Niro movie? Really? Yeah. Because being a movie lover, right? Yeah. I love the storytelling of it. And I like what it makes me feel. But it feels like what you were into was the characters. you became in love with the acting yeah do yourself a favour sit down and watch Raging Bull because it's an extraordinary film anyway but when you consider the sort of level of commitment that he's poured into that characterisation it's extraordinary because you know he got super fit he's like a middleweight boxer trained with the real Jake LaMotta who said he could have become a real boxer himself he was that good and then they sort of stopped filming um and he sort of went on a tour around europe just eating bread and pasta and and he just gained all of that weight and so you know there's no sort of ai or anything like that there's no sort of cgi and it sort of cuts and they're all of that muscles gone and he's just this sort of this slob of a man you know he sort of descends into um alcoholism and everything else it's an extraordinary sort of performance i mean my favorite three favorite films are apocalypse now raging ball and nil by mouth i mean they're just like no no none of those are date movies that way but i've always been drawn to that you know that darkness in sort of the human psyche and there was none better than de niro to bring those characters to life yeah have you ever tried to do a de niro impression no you're not going to get me doing a tom iddelson here Tom Middleton actually did it in front of him on Graham Norton, right?

22:26I was like, ooh, that's brave. Danny, so do you, talking about the Daniel Day-Lewises, right, which Daniel Day-Lewises is, again, I think a huge favourite of mine for many reasons. Like, Last of the Mohicans, man, it's like, it's phenomenal. I mean, I don't think there's anyone that has that, I think he has the biggest range, right? You consider him, like, in Last of the Mohicans and then you see him as Abraham Lincoln. it's like I tell you a story about Daniel Day-Lewis I was doing a play at the Royal Court and it was a play called Motor Town and it was written for me it was written by a wonderful playwright called Simon Stevens and it was all about a soldier coming back from Basra and reintegrating himself into Dagnum in Essex hence why it's called Motor Town because it's Dagnum Motors there anyway it was like the best role I'd ever been given on stage I never left the stage and there was like eight other actors that come in and do their scenes with me.

23:23And it was just an extraordinary gift of a part. Anyway, there was, to cut a long story short, there was no set on the stage. It was just a bank of lights. And once you were in the light, you're in character. And once you're out the light, you can come out of character like that. But obviously I'm always on stage. But when we end, when the play starts, before it even starts, the house lights were on. Yeah. And our brilliant director, Rahman Gray, says, like, you're out of character. I want you to really look at the audience because this thing doesn't start until the lights come on and then you step into the space.

23:57So I'd always sort of look out and sort of see who's arriving like that. And there was an actor in it called Richard Graham, whose best friend at drama school was Daniel Day-Lewis. And he told us this in rehearsals. I went, oh, it's wonderful, like that. And there's one particular performance coming towards the end of the run. And I remember I came out of my dressing room and I was walking down the steps of Richard. And he said, oh, by the way, my best mate's in tonight. I went, oh, that's brilliant, fantastic. I went, wait, what? What? Daniel Day-Lewis, he went, yeah. I said, Richard, you can't tell me that.

24:31I'm about to go out there and lead this play. What the muck? What do I do now? My heart's going like this. And I thought, I'm not going to look out into the audience. I'm not going to do it in case I sort of lock eyes with him. and of course it got the better of me and I I was there listening to music and I just looked up and slap bang in the middle of the auditorium at the Royal Court you couldn't miss him because he had like an orange beanie on and a massive beard and he was sitting there bolt upright right with this sort of scowl on his face with his arms folded just looking at me like that just like because he was just about to go and shoot there will be blood hence the big beard and he was like really intense just looking at me and i was just like i'm not gonna be able to string two words together here anyway that's crazy it was crazy we went out we did the show it was great and then i met him in the bar afterwards and he couldn't have been nicer he was so complimentary and sweet and he just had a wonderful time yeah when someone of that like those credentials says to you hey that was great what you did yeah that must shoot into you like i don't know yeah hold on to those little moments like that.

25:43Sort of unforgettable.

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26:52Find more at Kohler.com. I have a picture, which I'm trying to get up. This is your yearbook pic. Oh my God. Oh dear. Yeah. This is your graduate year. That's when I had a normal hairline. it's slowly receding. Jesus. The leather, the actor leather jacket, you know, moody eyes. But what was it? Because for me, right? Baby face. Yeah, because not much has changed. Great. Because I remember where there was a, there was a part of me at one point that I wanted to go into acting. Right. Yeah. Like I, I did acting at school and then I went to Leeds University and I was, you know, I did acting at Leeds and I just loved, I loved the stage, but I didn't have the commitment to it.

27:40And the moment I realized I didn't have the commitment to it is when I was going to go and try for Rada. And I had to learn the monologue. And I had to do this and I had to do that. And I thought, I'm not going to bother you. Oh, Jamie. And that's the difference between people who actually go for it. You have to have that commitment. Do you remember your audition process for Rada? Yeah, it's very long-winded, actually. Do you remember what you did? Yeah, I remember doing Joey from Road, Jim Cartwright. Everyone does Road. That was my monologue. and I remember doing Malvolio from Twelfth Night.

28:11You had to do a Shakespeare or the Modern. That was it, yeah. I'm not going to ask you, do you think you could still recite it? If you dug deep. I can't remember Twelfth Night, but I can remember the dagger speech from Macbeth. Yeah, for some reason. Can you give a little bit? Come on. And really get into it. No way, hold on. I try and remember the dagger speech. Is this a dagger I see before me? The handle toward my hand. Come, let me clutch thee. I have thee not, and yet I see thee still. Art thou not fatal vision sensible to feeling as to sight? Or art thou but a dagger of the mind, A false creation proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?

28:58I see thee yet in form as palpable as this which now I draw. Thou marshals me the way that I was going, and such an instrument I was to use. Mine eyes are made the fools o 'er other senses, or else worth all the rest. I see thee still, and on thy blade and dungeon gouts of blood, which was not so before. There's no such thing. Tis the bloody business which informs thus to mine eyes. Now, o 'er the one-half world, nature seems dead, And wicked dreams abuse the curtain's sleep. Witchcraft celebrates pale Hecate's offerings and withered murder, Alarmed through his sentinel the wolf who howls his watch.

29:48Thus, with his stealthy pace, with Tarquin's ravishing strides Towards his design, moves like a ghost. Thou sure and firm-set earth, Hear not my steps which way they walk For fear thy very stones Prate of my whereabout And take the present horror From the time which now suits with it Whilst I threat He lives Words to the heat of deeds To cold breath gives I go And it is done The bell invites me Hear it not, Duncan for it is a knell that summons thee to heaven or to hell. Have I remembered that? That is unbelievable, Danny. How have I remembered it? Let's break it go, man. That shake is just all in there.

30:49What? Have I remembered that? That is unbelievable. Someone call someone. Let's get production. Let's get this going. Man, it's like memorising. That is brilliant. Yeah. did you did you all understand it were you following but do you know what that it's maybe it's age or something i remember when i used to get taken to you know whatever it was maybe it was macbeth or whatever it was at school and to the production i used to this point but listening to you here sitting have that it's like this flow yeah this rhythm yeah but that's just how like the writing is of such power and magnitude it's like because he was an actor right shakespeare was an actor himself so it's like every line just trips onto to a new thought and it's seamless that is an amazing play and an amazing speech because you're dealing with someone who's hallucinating i'm like she's gone right you gotta go and kill him now and he's so wound up like he sees a floating dagger in front of him.

31:52And it's like, it's just an amazing, I mean, I've never, I haven't done a professional Shakespeare production. And I should do it. Here they freaking come. That is amazing. Yeah, it's amazing how I remembered it. I haven't sort of done that for a long time, yeah. Can I ask an odd question? Yeah. And I don't know how to pitch this, but I'm going to try in a whiz away. Acting, and especially like RADA, it used to feel like a sort of posh boys club yeah in a way yeah posh person's club yeah it felt like that and acting used to feel like you had to be from some sort of like wealthy family because you would have to be funded by someone in order to have a career because you'd be auditioning for the first five six seven years of your life and so it was typically these posh kids who were becoming actors yeah is that is that a fair narrative or not a fair narrative um look you're talking about like the arts and things like that it should just be accessible to everyone to everyone and if it's an elitist group then that's a poor thing and it's um it's not right because my question is to you is did you ever feel because you came from you know you came from essex and then going i was terrified when i first went to rada i'm honest to god i was like um that is a very good question because i you know i can't i came from stage school which was essentially like tits and teeth the outside you know jazz hands and all of that that's what i mean to this and then i walked in to rada and i got in and um i didn't audition anywhere else which is really naive really like this lambda and central and access and you didn't want to plan b you just and i was like if i'm gonna go anywhere i'm going to go to rada and um thankfully i got in you know what i mean um but i was so when i first got there um it felt like to me like god they'd all been to like my year had all been to uni and they were so well read and they were so eloquent the way that they spoke and i was just i just sort of clammed up and i thought i'm way out of my depth there and sort of um i remember doing like uh shakespeare sonic class with bardie thomas and like not being able to even over my mouth and feeling feeling just so in fear and that imposter syndrome was kicking in and and i got to the point where i was like you know what this is a golden incredible opportunity if you like i mean you're at rada do you know what i mean like people would love to go here so strip the walls of it trying to you know get as much out of it as you can and um kick the imposter syndrome thing into touch and just roll with it you know that's a great attitude to have because i think lots of us in life we get to that point where we get that imposter syndrome and actually you've got to kind of flip it on its head and say this is a great opportunity i gotta try to remove that from my locker i mean it rears its ugly head every now and again i remember like the first day on thursday murder club with the brilliant know amyaki in the scene but there was also ben kingsley piers bosden helen mirren mad celia imri and i looked over at the monitor and chris columbus is directing it i was like it was a heavyweight first day you said you're saying you still get imposter syndrome i know that day i was like oh this is like you know gandhi james bond the queen whitney houston i was like a little old me and i'm like hold on like you know um but you know you're there to do a job you have to and you use that to fuel the fire and go yeah all right you're a bit nervous but you've got to use it and at the end of the day though jamie they're just people you know they're just people they're just people they're worried about their parts just as much as you are and we're all in it together and it was such a great you know what i mean tell you this is i realized as i get older and i try and say this to like everyone whether you're going for a job interview or you're starting a business you're going to uni or whatever they're just people yeah yeah it's they're not they're just people yeah like you and me they've got emotions most of them and they're yeah normally they're pretty nice oh i mean i i had an amazing job uh called franklin with the brilliant michael douglas you know i had six months in paris filming this thing for apple tv and i was a close hand confidant of michael's character franklin uh edward bancroft and so i had loads of scenes of Michael and like you don't get any bigger than that you know he's Hollywood royalty but you couldn't have met the nicest more down-to-earth unstary guy than Michael he was just absolute dream to work with when you meet because again he's kind of like we grew up with yeah when you meet someone like that are you a bit like hey uh uh what's your name like how do you he was great because um this job kept getting pushed back I was like it's never gonna happen do you know what I mean like something's going on they keep delaying it and then before i knew it i was there on day one in a powdered wig heels and a frock coat and then all of a sudden like but you're right i was like this isn't that this isn't gonna happen i kept thinking of like fatal attraction and falling down and i've grown up with him like this iconic sort of hollywood legend and then all of a sudden he was there and i sort of swam into my vision he was like hey danny great to meet you i loved your tape let's go and i just like that was it he did it like that he said let's go let's do the scene it was like a four-page dinner scene it was great to start with a big scene like that and we just we just hit it off yeah how do you separate the pressure right when you're doing because i like okay like it's not even in the same league and i don't know how i presented with claire balding that's yeah don't worry about it shish yeah yeah that's my that's my Michael Douglas but when I was presenting with her we've all got Claire Bolting yeah yeah but when I was presenting with her right I was in my head I was thinking it's just like she's done this a lot and yeah like normally I'm okay in those situations right I think I can read that autocue and I kind of got this right but for some reason you get in your own head And that's when you have to go back to your technique, I imagine, and you have to really hunker down on your talent and be confident in that talent.

38:01Yeah. But, Jamie, I couldn't do what you do. Like you just said, auto cue. Like my strong suit is not sight reading. No. I remember being on This Morning once with Philip Schofield and Holly Willoughby, and Danny, it was like they just sort of left field and went, could you do the Christmas pass the parcel appeal this year? And I was like, what's that? we just need you to read this out off of autocue I was like yeah yeah that's that yeah that's that's fine like that and I started it and I and I and I went wrong I went oh sorry yeah and um just go again from the top like that and I went wrong again and I looked there and they were just he was just looking at his scripts like I don't think he can do it you know um man but I heard that Michael Douglas um was the one that pushed you into Guys and Dolls yeah I'd all did I had a zoom with nick heitner because like that was like an offer for nathan detroit and um i had to sort of uh dust down the jazz shoes and think if i was going to do it but no it was a great offer but i had a zoom with nick heitner and he said it'd be great and he said i'll give you like a week to think about it as such and and i was filming air franklin out in paris and i was sitting there on set with the brilliant noah dupe who was in the scene as well and no noah went like so what are you doing danny after this and i went well i've had a bit of a left field offer of work really um i've been offered a musical and michael dressed as franklin went what what musical and i went i went um uh guys and dolls he went guys and dolls he went my god he went what part i went Nathan Detroit he went are you going to do it I went Michael I mean I'm just in two minds and he went Danny he went you're doing it and you're not going to take no for an answer and I was just like really went you got to do it and I was like wow um and then within the director of Franklin was Tim Van Patten who's done Sopranos anyway it was what you learn is every American's favorite musical is Kyson Dahl's and it was Tim's favorite musical and then within a couple of days I used to come out on set in Franklin and Tim used to play, it's good or reliable.

40:14And all the French crew were going, good or reliable Nathan. So I couldn't say no, so I had to do it. Yeah, that was it. But Michael and Catherine Zeta-Jones both came to see Guys and Dolls. Yeah. Just before I had a sort of break in the run and they came on the finale of the first run. Yeah. So it was just amazing. That is insane. I remember they came backstage and all of the cast were just sort of... It was amazing. They were all sort of a bit starstruck. And you got an Olivier nomination. Yeah, yeah. It was amazing. The whole experience... You must be so proud of yourself, right? Yeah, because I hadn't done...

40:51We spoke about Contes. I hadn't done a musical in, I don't know, like 25 years. I mean, here's the thing. You don't have to have a great singing voice as Nathan did. That's the first thing that Nick Hyten has said to me on the Zoom. He said, Danny, you don't have to be a good singer. It's more of an acting part. And I went, Nick, you haven't heard me sing yet. But the way this thing was staged, because it was all immersive and it was on moving platforms, and I've never been in a hit like that. And to get an Olivier nomination at the end of it was just like the cherry on top of the cake. It's just that Sunset Boulevard won everything.

41:27Damn you! I always think with awards, when you don't win it, it's fucking like... it's a really weird, um, I got nominated for a BAFTA for Line of Duty, which in itself is an amazing achievement because I was only in one episode. If you know that show, I didn't make it to the second ep, did I get blasted away at the, in the, at the last frame of ep one. So on paper, it was just an amazing character with all that long interrogation scene. Anyway, I ended up getting a BAFTA nomination. It was like, wow, what a moment, you know, like you're a BAFTA. after nominated actor and so but it's like no one tells you the sort of pressure and hype that goes around it like the big days coming and like now it's like six nominations i think back then it was like four so i was in it i was up against tom hollander and john lifko um someone else from the crown it was jared harris so john lifko and jared harris from the crown and uh tom hollander for a night manager.

42:32Like three incredible actors. And so you've got, again, that little old me. But here's the thing. It's just nerve-wracking awards, isn't it? No one explains that to you. So you're sitting there and then I always remember it was like the tickets came through. And I go, oh, look, here's the tickets for the Royal Festival Hall. And you look at it. And I was there with my wife. I've got my plus one. and it's like, we're on the end of the row. And you go, you go, Ella, I think we're in here. We're right at the end of the row. Look at straight access to the stage. Get your dress sorted out. We got it.

43:17Let's work on the acceptance speech now. So you're like that, you know what I mean? You think, okay, and you get there and it's all like hot and you do the red carpet and everything like that. And you think, I was going to be like, I'm a supporting actor category. so normally they're really they're like early on so get it out of the way get the BAFTA and then just sit back and chill um but it was right towards the end with all the main acting thing acting awards and when they the lovely Tom Hollander won it and he was brilliant in that role and he was thoroughly deserved it but when they say someone else's name it's like an instantaneous like simultaneous like utter relief that it's over and crushing disappointment at the same time.

43:58It's an absolute head fuck. And there's a camera pointing at you right at that moment. You're like, where do I look? And then you just have to go, well done, Tom! Love you! And you have to do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a head fuck. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She did that. And then it's over and then they move on to the next category. And it's gone. And it's gone. She gets in the bar. Yeah. Robert Deer and Daniel Lewis, they're like method actors, right? Yeah. What is your take on method acting? Because the role that you have, John Warboys. Yes. In Believe Me on ITV, it's a challenging role. Yeah, it was difficult.

44:40Can you explain to the audience to listen to what it's about? So John Warboys was nicknamed the black cab rapist. He was a black cab driver who in the sort of early noughties, he's effectively one of Britain's worst ever sexual predators. And so he was a licensed cab driver and his modus operandi was, he'd go out in his cab and he'd sort of pick up, you know, drunk women, young girls from nightclubs and things like that. And he'd be taking them home. And he'd come up with this concocted story that he'd won at the casino that night or won the lottery. I've won 30 grand tonight. And then he'd bend down and pick up a bag and hold up the bag of cash, which was the visual clue.

45:28And he'd also say, oh, look, I've got a bottle of champagne as well with my winnings, but obviously I can't have a drink tonight because I'm driving. I don't want to lose my license. You'll have a glass with me, won't you? And he'd talk them round that he would sort of be insistent and wouldn't take no for an answer. and then he'd laced the champagne with a concoction of drugs, which would render them unconscious. He sort of offended up to 105 women. So, I mean, it's written by Jeff Pope. So the drama explores those incidences, his arrest, the trial, and how basically he got eight years, but then after that they gave him parole.

46:13They granted him parole and it was about these two extraordinary women, Layla and Sarah, as they're named in our story, that effectively under the Human Rights Act sued the Metropolitan Police because the whole case, the whole everything with these women, it was littered with police failings from the Met. So they held them to account. They sued, you know, the judicial system and everything. And it was like an extraordinary act of courage and bravery and dignity from the victims to do that. but it's a harrowing story it's a heavy role it's a heavy role and because the thing is i've played nefarious wrongans in the past pretty much at the beginning of my career and you always have to try and find some element that's redeeming about them there's something even in someone like that there's something likable and i there was literally nothing with this character and so essentially the thing is when you watch the it's like four episodes and every time you see the character on screen he's lying he's not telling the truth and that was really difficult you know it was a challenging headspace to sort of occupy how do you get into that headspace because that's a like yeah anyone man that's a lot yeah it was it was hard because i i i underestimated it because i thought you know i've got like 26 years as a professional yeah so it's like another role he's just like i'm just gonna get into this role and just do it yeah and it was just very isolating because i i we filmed it down in cardiff so i had a sort of light schedule at the beginning of it so I was traveling down to Cardiff doing something unspeakable and then going back to my family, which was really disorientating.

47:49And then it got more and more intense with the court case and all the taxi scenes were in the last week. And then we had to do these extraordinary psychiatrist scenes where when he's in prison, he finds God, which was basically just a ruse to get parole as quickly as possible. and so I've got these really lengthy scenes with the psychiatrist where um he starts to emote all this emotion and he's so sorry for what he's done but you know he's lying and so I had to sort of lean into my acting training which is like Stanislavski where you sort of use which is called emotional recall where you'll think of something in your own life which upsets you like you've lost a loved one or something's happened and I often do that if I need to do an emotional scene or listen to some music.

48:40You can see Danny's in the corner of the set somewhere just getting into it. Where do you go in your mind? I just go to, you know, like a granddad I've loved who's passed away or, you know, various stuff that's happened. And you just sort of, it's like hypnotising yourself or getting yourself into that headspace. And you picture that moment that you find out? Yeah, yeah. And then basically you've got that on a low light. You've got that emotion running in through you. I mean, I have to do it that way. Some actors can just turn tears and emotion on like a tap. You know what I mean? I have to sort of really get into it.

49:12And so then you're called to set and then you have to sort of use that emotion, but obviously fuel that into the dialogue that you're coming out with in the scene. So it's a mixture of those two things. It's about technique. It's about using your craft and technique as an actor to serve what the writing is trying to give you. Yeah, but what you're doing there when you're playing such a deep role and a heavy role, you're manipulating your emotions. but your body and mind don't really know you're tricking yourself. So you're putting yourself into that space. You know, I spoke to Naomi Aki, right, who she played Whitney.

49:43Yeah. And she was talking about how much Whitney took from her. She was like, it just took everything. And it feels to me that actors sometimes underestimate how much it takes. And I heard that you had to take some counselling afterwards. Yeah, well, there was, we had intimacy coordinators on this job, which I'd never worked with before because when I was doing those types of scenes that they weren't about. But we did have a facility of a counsellor and it was in that last week with all the taxi scenes. And again, I was like, I don't need to talk to a counsellor. I'm like big and brave enough to get on with it.

50:22But I ended up talking to the counsellor for 45 minutes and it was really invaluable just to talk it over because it was sort of relentless character, really. And just to sort of talk about it and to check in with someone, it sort of stabilised me a little bit. Not that I was sort of uncontrollable or anything, but it was just a really invaluable exercise into sort of getting the load off as such. Do you know, it's such a male response, which is like, well, I was fine. Well, yeah, I don't know, that much, I was totally fine, but it was invaluable, but I'm totally fine. yeah and to do the role justice you have to become the the person almost yeah because i'll tell you what it was jamie it was like when i read the scripts yeah because jeff's a friend of mine and he said look this is coming to your agent but i want to talk to you about it first before you jump out the window because the nature of what it is um and i was like okay so let's send me the scripts and you know our daughter is dixie is 13 now you know she's sort of teenager and like she's going out on trains with her mates and before long she'll be in the back of a taxi you know when I read those scripts as a parent it absolutely terrified me because that's someone's daughter in the back there and um I just as a as a father as a parent I had a completely different response to it as I if I'd have if I'd done that like in my early 20s I'd have been like so sort of gung-ho and yeah let's make a mark with this character but it sort of terrified me yeah so you have to absorb that but not let it affect what you have to do because when you're doing it you can't judge who he is you just have to play the character yeah it's funny I've just become a parent right to a little baby boy oh congratulations thanks man and it's like and I know we do the same thing it totally changed my view yeah it knocks you for fucking sakes it just takes four times as long as to leave the house oh my god why aren't we out the door yet hey going on holidays it's mental it's like a moving house yeah yeah yeah but you're right when you become a parent you view things totally differently and yeah and you're so right when you read that script you're thinking that is someone's daughter yeah yeah your sensibilities change everything shifts doesn't it because i mean becoming a parent is like you're no longer the most important person in the room which is a great leveler isn't it you know you're thinking about someone else before yourself i was into an interview with Coogan, right?

52:51Yeah. Steve Coogan, who played... Alan Partridge? Sorry. I thought you were reaching for it. And the way that he got into that role, he played, reached on BBC, I mean... Oh, Jimmy Savile. Jimmy Savile. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He played Jimmy Savile. Oh, I know what you're going to say, yeah. And he wore Savile's... He wore his shoes. He wore Savile's actual shoes. Yeah. Which is... Again, that was written by Jeff Pope. the thing is like you're talking about like it's a weirdly like it's a that feel it's a it's it feels really dark that but i mean you know like i sort of in a way respect totally i do for doing that because like i think whatever you need to do to get into the character then that's what you have to do and sort of like if you're talking about method acting and things like that as long as it doesn't encroach on the other performer you know all avenues are open to try and get the best out of the characterisation.

53:50So if that's what Steve Coogan wanted to do, then all power to him for doing that. I actually thought his performance was extraordinary. So good. It was so good. And again, incredible, like, it's a very daunting and brave thing to take on. But it's like, how far do you, how far would you go for a role then? Because if you go like Daniel Day-Lewis, right? Yeah. I mean, the length that he goes to is kind of wild. So you have that side of it, right? Yeah. But then you have like Laurence Olivier right yeah who's one of the supposed greatest and there's that famous line that he said to dustin hoffman i've got it on my instagram page for some reason do you really yeah it says why don't you try acting dear boy yeah which is hilarious i think they were filming marathon man weren't they yeah and um dustin hoffman sort of runs he's decided to do like five laps of the park because the scene he had to be hot and sweaty and out of breath and things like that and so he got to about lap three and Olivier goes why don't you try acting dear boy like that and it's like but you know Dustin had to do what he had to do to get into it you know so you other actors will go right just put the sweat on me I'll jump up and down for like two seconds and then go it's it's it's so where do you where do you lie um I think I was much more like that when I was a younger actor i think i've got more sort of technique and um know-how now just to sort of turn it off and on you know but i did a lot of work with mike lee when i was younger i did two mike lee movies and the thing about when you work with someone like mike is he's very clear about there's the actor and there's the character and so you have to keep those two things separate and then you've got your sort of directors and tanai sort of going all the time when you're playing the role you can't you know what i mean like i've done scenes i remember doing a scene with someone once and um this guy well he should remain nameless but it was like a fight scene type thing who was i can't and he and he and i remember he slapped me around the face like that like proper slap me on take one and i was just like what the fuck was that and he went oh was it a bit too hard i went yeah it's like we're going to be doing like another seven eight takes of this and you are you planning on hitting me that hard like for eight takes i said i'm not going to be able to hear out my ear do you know what i mean it was sort of because that's the the thing of like you've got to you've got to have technique you've got to be able to say if you're doing like a play you're doing eight performances a week do you know what i mean you've got to make sure that there's always safety with the actors and things like that and looking after your voice it's all you know it's it's got to look spent spontaneous and in the moment but you've got to back it up with the craft can i can ask you said you would like that in your early years and maybe this is totally wrong but is that because you you you came out of rada right rada is like the creme de la creme right it's the it's supposedly supposedly right was there an element that you had to take yourself seriously and so if you and so i'm an actor so i have to is there an element of that as you get older and more relaxed in your career because you got you know you just you kill every role and you have all these things you kind of go i don't need to take myself as seriously is that wrong for me to say that yeah i think i've mellowed out as the years have rolled by because um i you know ultimately i don't think you can take yourself too seriously in this industry in the acting world you know what i mean that i think it's too uh i don't you know i actually don't think i've ever been like that really do you know what i mean like i'm sort of the thing that has always appealed to me about what i do for a living is that it's always this i look i'm not a lovey do you know what i mean i i respond to the notion of it we're all in this together from the person that's bringing you a cup of tea you know one of the runners to the lead actor on the call sheet you know it's about a group of people all pulling in the same direction to serve the writing.

57:53That's really what it's about. And I think if you are too serious about yourself, if you're a diva or whatever you want to call it, then to be honest, you won't last long in the industry. You'll get found out. Robert De Niro says the moment that you think you're cool is the moment that you're not. Yeah. Always stay calm. Yeah, yeah, stay calm. Stay calm. Yeah, yeah. This is a hard question, especially being a Brit. Do you know you're good? No, I don't think about it like that, you know. Because you're brilliant. You're so brilliant. End the podcast right there. But it's funny how Brits can't take this comment.

58:33Suddenly we close up and... What are you reading at the moment? Do you know what's interesting, right? If I was to go to a dentist or a surgeon or, I don't know, maybe an architect and say, do you think you're good at your job? They'd probably say, yeah, I'm good at what I do. When it comes to acting, for some reason, in that sort of entertainment space, especially when we shy away, I'm not a good singer or I'm not a good dancer, I'm not a good actor. We don't want to say what we actually are. It's all a question of taste. It's all subjective, isn't it? Totally. There'll be people that love me as an actor and there'll be people that go, I don't really fancy Danny Mays like that.

59:15I don't think he's particularly good or he's a bit one nut. Yeah, but I don't think anyone actually says that. But do you know what I mean, though? I get it. It's sort of like, and I don't think you can ever, again, it's that thing of like staying grounded, isn't it? And I've always had that discipline that every character you play, wipe the slate clean and come at it afresh. Never rest on your laurels. Never rely on the last performance you've given. That's advice you'd give someone listening now? Without a doubt, yeah. Always, because try to test yourself at all times, you know. Because there's parts that you haven't played yet.

59:44There's parts that, the beauty about what I do for a living is it's like it's so mysterious and endless yeah and you can hopefully you get better as you get older and it just sort of rolls on to the other job and you know it was for me it was always about um longevity it was all I want to be old and gray one day and look back at a body of work which I'm incredibly proud of you know um that's my goal in life i think along with trying to be a nice husband and a good dad and all that sort of stuff all the other stuff but i mean all of that life stuff makes you a better actor anyway you know i mean your parents must be so proud um yeah i mean i don't my dad my dad's not one of those guys that says i'm really proud of you son and you know it's sort of um i think they are but I guess particularly, I'm much more closer, I'd probably say to my mum than I and my dad, but I know he's proud, but he's just of that generation where he doesn't express that as much.

1:00:46What's one role you really want? And what's one role you really want and what's one role you missed out on? Oh. Or is there anyone that you thought you were going to get and then they finished it? Oh, there's countless auditions where you've gone. You've gone, I've nailed that. I remember going into, I remember auditioning for a part and it went so well. The casting director walked me down the corridor to the lift and was like, you know, blowing proverbial smoke up my arse and was like, that was incredible, Danny. I just didn't think it would be as good as that. Oh, well done, brilliant. She actually pressed the button.

1:01:28And the door, I remember the door shutting like that. She went, you were wonderful, just really great. I was like, I think I might have got that. And I didn't, you know, I didn't end up getting it. Because, you know, it's hard. In a way, it gets harder the more successful you get because the pool of actors that you're up against becomes sort of smaller and smaller and you're all on that list together. And, you know, you're up against some serious talent. And rejection, that's part and parcel of being an actor. And you just have to accept that. You're never going to get everything you're going for.

1:02:00It builds that character, which is just like insane. And I think that's why I look at your career, right? Leaving kind of home at 13, getting on the tube, going to Italia Conti, then trying for Rada, doing those things, going... That builds that character, that resilience to then go into the world of acting. I think sometimes if you just jump into the world of acting without having that experience of rejection and hardship, it's a bit like it's a shaky ground, right? Yeah. The thing is, I mean, look, I can't... Now I can't do anything else. Do you know what I mean? It's sort of... What would you do?

1:02:30I mean, I'd probably be an artist of some, I mean, another reliable job. Yeah, same with Brie Hall. I'd usually be a bus driver or something like that, shouldn't I, really? But when young actors come to me and they ask advice, it's like you've got to have that mentality where there are pitfalls and rejection and it's really hard. It's a very hard industry to make your way in. but if you've got that fire burning within and you can't put it out then this is that you've got you've got to see it through do you know what i mean it's like you can't do it it's like it's more than a job do you know what i mean it's just like it's a way of life i also think with acting which i find is that and i hope some hacks forgive me but i my sister's an actor and she's incredible she's incredible but i find sometimes with actors they say with the rejection but i'm so good yeah but i'm so good it's like that doesn't matter no it doesn't it doesn't matter and you and you've got to get past that yeah you may be good you may be great but you've got to kind of get past that yeah you can't take it personally you can't take it personally and sometimes you do if you really want a gig and it doesn't come your way it can be demoralizing you have to use that you know what i mean what's one role if you could play any would you play um i mean i'd love to be in like a you know my great mate is steven graham and you know Steve's done like Scorsese movies and things like that I'd love to work in like a Scorsese movie for instance He used to send me little WhatsApp messages every now and again With him on set with De Niro and standing there with Pacino And I'm like wow Hey Steve, thanks buddy Have fun

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1:05:32danny you have your new podcast coming out as well uh gangster presents the story of ronnie biggs Yes. Well, I played Ronnie Biggs way back when in Mrs. Biggs alongside Sheridan Smith. Yeah. So it was, I just got approached to narrate the radio series because it's like the anniversary of him coming back to the UK after being in exile and on the run in Rio. and it's like six episodes. And what was extraordinary about revisiting it and him as a person was there was just lots of stuff I didn't realise. And it's an amazing show on BBC Radio and there's footage of him that has never been heard before.

1:06:17They've interviewed all of those sort of characters around the story. And for anyone who doesn't know, who is Ronnie Biggs? Ronnie Biggs is the famous great train robber. he um what year was the great train robbery it was the early 60s was it 63 i'm gonna say 63 but i think something like that anyway so it was the master that long ago yeah that's the wild thing right yeah yeah yeah i mean and nothing like that had so the great royal mail train was um um, Bruce Reynolds was the mastermind behind it. Um, and the, the story goes that cause Ronnie Biggs was trying to live a straight life. You know, Ronnie Biggs as well.

1:07:00Do you know what I mean? Like he was sort of, you know, doing this, that and nicking cars and doing like robberies and things like that. But he was definitely trying to go straight down in Surrey with his wife and 1963. Yeah. With Charmian Biggs, his wife. And then, um, he needed a deposit for their house and he turned to his friend Bruce Reynolds and said listen I desperately need 500 quid for this deposit and he said look I haven't got it Ronnie everything I've got is tied up in this big job that I'm doing but I can give you a place on that job if you're willing to come on to the crew and in actual fact they needed a train driver to drive the locomotive and it was Ronnie Biggs himself that his friend Peter was a train driver and he got him involved in it but here's the thing on the night of the robbery peter couldn't drive the train like for whatever reason it was like the wrong uh make model and he and they got told to sit in the van and they actually never touched the mailbag they actually physically never handled the mailbag off the train itself and then you know they're in the hideout and then one by one they all get caught and they got sentenced to 30 years in prison in um which is an extra that's a crazy amount it was they they were made an example of you know it was like an act of treason against the crown no one had ever attempted anything as audacious as that before and so they were made examples of so 30 years i mean i remember saying i remember the line you wouldn't get that for murder you know and so he got deeply depressed when he was in um wandsworth prison where he was uh behind bars and of course they broke him out.

1:08:40And it was literally like a rope ladder over the wall on an exercise and he jumped through the thing and then he eventually goes to, he has plastic, it's like a botched job, plastic surgery thing going on, ends up in Paris and then goes to Australia and then ends up in Rio. And absolute, like it's an extraordinary story, Ronnie Biggs. like it's and he's he's one of these characters that had like uh nine lives it was just he always managed to evade things and and he got raymunda the stripper pregnant in rio which meant they couldn't extradite him and um yeah just your archetypal lovable rogue i had an amazing time playing him um so to revisit it again for the radio series was just awesome yeah i loved it man everyone needs to go listen to that and we'll put it in the show notes as well as you can click on it.

1:09:32Danny, listen, I know that we're stuck for time, so we've got to wrap up, but I just want to say thanks, man. Thank you. I've really enjoyed it. It's been such a lovely chat, Jamie. Are you kidding me? I've enjoyed every minute of it. And that monologue is going to stick with me. Oh, God. It's unbelievable, man. If I went wrong, could we do another take? It's unbelievable. Oh, man. Thanks. Listen, before we finish, I'd like to ask eight quickfire questions. Okay. You ready for this? Yeah. what's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up oh um he who dares that's my um little nod and wink to fools and horses best compliment anyone's ever given you I could think of the worst thing someone said to me yeah go on he's got a face like a thwarted man cub that was that was that was a review it's funny the ones you remember isn't it A thwarted man cub on the cusp of a tantrum, I think it was.

1:10:35What is that? What scares you most about yourself? I can be impatient sometimes. Yeah. Same as me. Last time you cried? Oh. I cry a lot. It must have been some TV show I've watched. I don't know what it was, but I'm a bit too low. Brilliant's gone talent with that golden buzzer. Oh, right. Yeah, that got you. I guess me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guess me. Yeah. What's something you can't let go of? The four-tuned man cover of you. No. What's something I can't let go of? It can be anything. Security of your family. Great answer. What's your guilty pleasure? I do like a... What's that? In the jungle.

1:11:14I'm a celebrity. I do like a bit of that. Yeah. I reckon they've asked you a few times. They have asked me. Yeah. I wouldn't last five minutes. I like it as well. What turns you off? Cruelness. Very good answer. What turns you on? Good acting. Yeah. Last one, tricky one for us Brits. What do you like most about yourself? I don't take things too seriously. And yeah, hopefully I'm still as grounded as I was when I first started all those years ago. Love that, don't you? Bonus one, favourite dance move. And can you show us? Favourite dance move. Yeah. You can't knock the running man, can you? Let's have a look.

1:11:52Go on, let's do it. Let's do it. Classic. Yeah, let's get it. I can't believe you. Danny Baze, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

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