DAVID GANDY: HOW EMBRACING IMPOSTER SYNDROME CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE

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2:16Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Lang, and this is Great Company.

2:24Well hello everyone, welcome back to Great Company Podcast. Welcome back. Welcome back, that's Jemima, who's always here with me. Always. Not always, but... I'd love to be always. You can always... She's always with me. She's always there. In my mind. When you say welcome back, it sounds like they've just gone to the toilet. Yeah, welcome back everyone from the toilet. Where have you been? This is Jamie. This is me, I'm your host. Welcome to the show. a really exciting guest that we have today. Just want to caveat with this. So we've recorded the episode, obviously. And Jemima, you, we have David Gandy on today.

3:02Yes. Very good looking international male model. Yeah. What did you say? So before, before we came in, everyone's like, oh yeah, obviously a very attractive man. And everyone was like, yeah, I can appreciate he's like a really beautiful man, but like kind of not really my type. Maybe a little bit too good looking. Nah, not like I wouldn't. Not for me. And then he came in. He came in and then Jemima wasn't with me, but I was standing in the kitchen. I said hi to him. He went downstairs. Jemima runs up the stairs, runs in and went, good God. All I can say is he really is. He's a good looking guy.

3:40He's a good looking guy. He's got a good looking aura, smell good. Oh, and the other thing, highly, highly embarrassing. I that morning I have normal perfumes I wear and I happen to stay at my mum and dad's house the night before and that in that house is light blue which is the perfume that he very famously advertised yeah and I love that perfume so whenever I'm there I'm always like lather it on because I don't know the next time I'm going to be here and pop light blue on so I smothered myself in light blue then he comes into the office and I was like I stink of light blue I'm like fangirling through smell and you can't cover smell.

4:17So he would have met me and been like, she reeks of light blue. Of my smell. Because she's, no, she's meeting me today and she's done it as not much. Oh my God, that is hilarious. And I was like, I just, I realised it halfway through the recording and was like, I stink. I smell nice. I think he would have loved it. David Gandy. David Gandy. What an amazing chat. What an amazing interview. He is obviously renowned throughout the world for being one of the top male models. we speak about modelling, we speak about fatherhood we speak about business he has his new loungewear sort of activewear business and we talk about so many different things we talk about anxiety, talk about life in general and how he got found as well because he's quite unique when you think of the supermodels you think of Kate, Naomi, Cindy you kind of know them by their first names there's not many men who you would know just by their male models that you'd know by just their name.

5:16It's quite unique. It's fascinating. And also, Phil, it's a great insight into building a personal brand. That's what David has done. He's built an international personal brand. Today's episode has ups and downs and lefts and rights. It's amazing in every single way, so we hope you enjoy it. Remember, also, if you haven't subscribed to the show already, just click that button. It does us wonders. It means we can keep getting the guests that you like, and it means we can keep making the show. Let us know in the comments what you like, what you dislike, maybe what guests you want on next. And as always, get in touch on email, greatcompanypodcast on Instagram or greatcompany at jamppoproductions.co.uk.

5:51Also, as he's so good looking, it might be a good opportunity if you've never done it before, hop onto our YouTube. Have a watch. From Jemima, go and have a look at that. Go and have a watch. Go and have a watch on YouTube. You ready for this? I'm ready. Enjoy this episode of Great Company with David Gandy. Hi, I'm David Gandy and I'm in great company.

6:14I had sort of the worst day of my life and best ever life, almost in sync. I have Google Alerts on. Right. Okay. Which basically means that you get an alert if you're on Google, right? You probably don't have it, but I do. And I got alert, GQ best dressed. I was like I knew this day was coming It's like here we go And I click on it And I'm just trying to be like nonchalant I'm just being casual Click on it Top 10 number 1 It's like You were probably up there It's probably Gandhi Beckham Styles It was going through And I was like I can't see my name anywhere Licked across Top 10 worst dressed I was number 3 I couldn't believe it.

7:09My emotions going from here to here was just wild.

7:21You're at university and your friend signed you up to a modelling competition on ITV with Richard and Judy. Yeah, the original this morning. Tell me everything. Come on, tell me everything. Because I've got all the time in the world. So I'm locking the doors and keeping you in just to let you know. I didn't really know. I didn't know this happened. And I got a call from a guy called Devin, who was a booker at Select. And now I have to do the impression of him. Because imagine if you were on the phone, you're a guy from Essex. He went to university. He was like, how are you? Oh, no. You've got to come in for the last 15 of the modeling competition.

8:02and I was like okay nutcase and I'd love to see you but I was like literally put the phone down sat there that evening said you won't believe what happened today the guy called from select model agency and said about competition and Abby went no no no I put you in for this I put you in for this and showed me what she put in and then um I said well I better call them back so I called them back and I had to go on uh into London they chose the last last 10 of us and I said to Abby they want you on they want you on TV and she went I'm not going on TV I went you put me up for this you're coming on television she went no not coming on i didn't know what else to do so it was in london so my mom and dad they were living essex at the time and i just thought i'm going to take mom but mom won't come on like she'll be too nervous so i sort of went home and went oh by the way i'm i'm on the tv like in a couple of days time the film crew are coming and they need to interview you and my mom went no no like no you haven't really got a choice mom i'm so sorry to have to put you into this.

8:59Mum had no idea about the competition, no idea, and she was like, fine, okay, we'll do it. And bless her, she did, and she was there when I won on the day as well. What did you win?

9:14Well, apart from massive kudos. Yeah, you didn't, when you won a contract with Select to go onto their books. I need a, because I think you're a shy person, right? Still am. So that, for me, someone puts you up for something. You're shy. But you still go and do it. Didn't have anything to lose. Hated university. Wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do. It was an adventure. And I thought, yeah, why not? Let's see what this is all about. Yeah, but what I really like about that is there are so many people probably here who, you know, and people who are listening, right, who don't step out of that comfort zone.

10:01That for you, I imagine, was a massive step outside of the comfort zone. But you did it because you were like, I have nothing to lose. I'm going to go and do it. Why not? I think that's the thing. If something scares me, I have to step forward. I have to confront it. And that's, people talk about imposter syndrome as a bad thing. And I always say to people, it's not a bad, it's not a terrible thing at all. And if you speak to most successful people, all had imposter syndrome and it's this idea that i've always thought if i haven't if i walk into a room and i haven't got that imposter syndrome if i'm not nervous if i don't think i should be there i'm never i'm not pushing myself because i'm i've just i've gone comfortably numb in just a situation and i just sit around and go and we've done this haven't we we've we've uh succeeded here so what's the next one and that's why i probably am always pushing and i walk into same thing.

10:49That's your drive. That's probably my drive. Yeah. Yeah. Feeling uncomfortable. If you're not feeling uncomfortable, you're feeling safe. And if you're feeling safe, you're not driving forwards. Sounds kind of strange, doesn't it? Yeah, but it sounds good as well at the same time, because did you ever consider saying no when you were called? I can't remember. No, I don't think I probably ever did. I can't remember. It was a while ago. But, but there's things I have said no to that I was nervous about that didn't do. And that's the only things I regret. Like what? There were a couple of probably films, and I never wanted to be an actor.

11:24This is the other thing. But there were a couple of films that I looked at and I just thought, I'm not an actor. I can't learn lines. What? Tell me, like what? You're going to say Fight Club or something like that? No, no, no. There's been a few. There's been quite a few. Just give me one. Just tease it out. Come on, give me one. Well, everyone, this is the famous one that everyone says that I said no to, but I never actually said no to it. It was, I was sent the script because the author met me and said, can I send you a script? And it was to 50 Shades of Grey.

12:00And I read it and went, what? No. But I actually, yeah. That's why I've only said, that's what I said, the only one I would do. David, your ages are eating a fist when you said no. They were like, sorry, this is going to be wow but growing up for me right you know it felt like the modeling industry was the only place that women were being paid more than men and so they should so they should 100 and it felt like this was where these amazing supermodels naomi campbell kate moss you know these incredible women were sort of dominating this industry did that ever shift or was it always that it felt like it was dominated by these incredible women well no it was dominated and um you know i said before i worked with chrissy turnington and i asked her and i literally said how do you and there was no man i where i wanted to be um there wasn't a man on that level that i could ask and say how do you get there was about branding it was that's all it was and when he spoke to chris turnington and i read about cindy crawford um that was the platform i followed and it was a business.

13:12That was it. Your name needed to be a name. You know, when we say... You need to become a name. That's so interesting. Because when you say Chrissy, Naomi, Cindy, you don't need to ask who they are. I'm not saying you say David, but it was like the name needs to be... Oh, you know David Gandy. He's the guy from this. He's the guy. And Light Blue gave me that platform when I didn't want to be... I couldn't be the guy in the white pants for too long. I needed to then leverage that. and that's when we did and everyone told me not possible and then I would say I want an exclusive contract I don't want to work for many brands I want to work exclusively for certain brands and they were amending exclusive contracts and that's when we did that There's a couple things here which I think is so good Firstly I'm always a big believer in never following logic I say this a lot never follow logic because it gets you back in the same place as everybody else you never follow logic there's a great story of when I used to get a fax out with all the places that you would go to, castings, and everyone went one way, top to bottom.

14:15You turned it around and went from bottom to top. So it was different. Which is so, it's so good. And whether that was... But you say that's not logical. To me, it seems logical. It seems a logical thing to do. Yeah, but maybe it was out of shyness or whatever. It's still a really good tactic. Now that's about people following. You know, they follow each other. Yeah, but don't follow the crowd. Why fit in when we're born to stand out? it's the most important thing and and i also really like the way that you um you knew your worth and and i feel like you did you say i only i'm going to be loyal but i want to work for you and i want this to be that you kind of knew your worth and i think a lot of the time we forget what our worth is well the the worth was i wasn't worth anything at the start i agreed um and that was that was the difference when they what you just said there was the women were paid so much more and they were you know the global superstars of the fashion world and we both said rightly so and if someone said well yeah but you should really be you know there should be equality on a set like if you're both in the same campaign rubbish absolute rubbish if i'm doing a campaign with kate moss and i'm nobody of course kate moss kate moss is going to be the one that everyone is looking at kate moss is engaging with everyone kate moss is bringing in the sales and you have to level that up.

15:32There's no complaining about it. You level that up until your point where you are at the closing ceremony of the Olympic Games and you're standing next to Kate Moss because you're part of that group. Did that happen? That happened. There we go, baby. Yeah. And then you go, and you go, right, I'm now leveled up and now I know my worth and we're, you know, I'm never going to run the same level as Kate Moss. But... But it's true, but there are, it's, there are all the women that you mentioned, which is amazing. there is very few men that I can name I mean someone says to me Gandhi I know who Gandhi is not

16:11that's two we're going back to history that's two someone says to me David Gandhi I know exactly who David Gandhi is and I think a lot of people you know whether they whether they know you or not they've heard the name and I just find it fascinating that you built yourself up in an industry that was dominated by women to come to make yourself into a name. My whole team was women. Yeah, amazing. That was our whole thing. And I always kind of preferred working with women than guys. So, and Tandy Anson and Heidi, still the owner of Select, still my booker today. Yeah, I work predominantly with women all the time.

16:54Talking about being shy, right? did you grow up always being would you say shy or an introvert what would you say uh yeah yes yes and yes shy at nursery remember holding on to my mom not wanting to go school never really fitted in um hating school university same wasn't really tired until i sort of got out and working on my own in the fashion and you're basically on your own and you're traveling and you're hanging around the fashion capitals trying to make something happen and you're doing it all yourself it's you yourself right and that's all I needed that's all I was relying on because you only trusted yourself no I trusted certain people I trusted I don't I don't sort of trust that many people um that's learned the hard way but you you mentioned that you had to learn the hard way what do you mean by that what with people uh never trust people especially with money money does funny things to people and yeah never never trust people with money unfortunately i know i know that sounds absolutely horrid it really really does but but but not anyone be very very careful with everything businesses even if it's contracted percentages everything else money does funny things to the best people sometimes if they care and that's what they you know think they care about so yeah you you you learn you learn and you learn about loyalty as well um yeah there was a great thing recently i read about um uh especially men who you men generally have this this group and i know about you all the same and it's been like sort of whatsapp like i have whatsapp groups my friends from back home since i've been like you know five or six uh friends in sort of like the fashion street and other groups and we generally just rip the absolute shreds out of each other and if my other half ever sees and she's i can't believe you guys talk to i said but that's that's loyalty like that's it's it's a weird thing that you know if we're all in a group and someone we can rip the shreds out of each other if there's a new person there that starts as well well hang on hold the phone a second you you haven't you haven't been around long enough to be able to say that but the rest of us will keep on doing it and there's this really interesting thing about how supportive those people are that how loyal you know those friends are within that group when you can confidently rip the shit out of each other and you're still mates because it's quite rare these days and if you were to send a message to that group saying i don't feel good or i'm having a hard time what would the response be i know i'd get a call from larry king within about 30 seconds and probably a few others as well but we never do so you have to this is a thing i do a lot i try and do a lot with men's mental health you'll never say it i think it was i think you have to uh you'll never say i don't think anyone would say i'm not feeling good maybe some people do but i think generally men will not say i think you have to find the clues to it to um because the bet you know what i think the people who do suffer um from from mental health issues and depression they are they spend their whole life trying to hide it not trying to actually you know that that's what your aim is to try and hide it from people so i always think you're you're if i ever say to a friend or say to someone how you doing he goes yeah i'm all right yeah i'm okay and i'm always sort of like you're not because okay is not it's you know that's that's the alert word kind of thing i'm like oh okay you don't have to say anything it's you know you i don't think you have to delve too deep but um that's it's always you know when you have someone go yeah i'm great actually like that's um yeah things are good at the moment okay that's kind of like the truth but i don't think men really open up to go open up to go yeah mate i'm not not doing it not doing that well at the moment i think it's yeah i'm doing okay and okay it's not good why are those words so hard to say sometimes when you're not and and because we're two guys that speak from a men's point of view why is that so hard why is it so hard to literally say you know i'm not feeling good because i've definitely been there right and i took me and i i i i spoke about a lot recently but there was a moment i thought after seven years i finally said to a mate i'm not feeling good took me seven years to say something i still think men won't admit it to this day so and there's a whole thing about men need to talk and not even that sometimes and we're we're in a in a world as well where we're not face to face like me and you are now or we're not going to the you know things like going to the pub or going to the office these are all things that i but you know when working from home came in uh i dreaded it from working with men's mental health and you know we'd be on zoom meetings and there would be two people sitting in the corner upstairs in their in in their office or their house and didn't say anything during the call and then the call goes off and i go where do those two people go they didn't say anything are they in an office you adversely see how you first thing you You come into the office, everyone starts talking.

22:16Let's get a coffee. How are you doing? Community as well. Community, you're talking. And that is being lost. But then, David, if I was going to ask you, because we're being open, if I was going to say, how are you? Are you okay? How are you feeling? What would you say? I would say I'm good at the moment. Yeah, yeah. I am good. Not always, you know, it hasn't always been the way, but I am at the moment. That's, yeah, I'm in a good place at the moment. and I'm fortunate to be that. Because again, I don't want to make you feel embarrassed, right? But you sort of depict that if someone was going to draw a man, they would draw something close similar to you, right?

22:59That's what they would draw. On the walls or somewhere, they would draw that. And that also depicts masculinity and alpha and strength, and that's what it's meant to depict. but actually what you're saying is you haven't always felt that way. Well, we're about to. This is a, you can't get into the depth of this at the moment, but what is changing at the moment is that masculinity, sadly, has been turned into this now toxic masculinity. And it's the new byword, the new word that everyone says. And unfortunately, there's a small minority of horrible men. I mean, you know, we know them, they know them, but we know of them that are spawning it for the rest of us.

23:46And there's a big problem at the moment, which we're going to talk about, and I'm going into the House of Parliament to talk about it, which is called the Lost Boys. Men don't quite, young boys, between the ages of, I think, 15, 25, are a little bit lost at the moment. Yes. But why? Why do you think so? Yeah. for the reasons we were just talking i think a second ago to everything no one no one is communicating everyone's communicating on their phones or um i don't think the opportunities are there and people much anymore and people think success i say this people think success is um be able to bench 150 kilos doing an ice bath and having money in your crypto wallet and and then And that's what they feel like success has got to be.

24:36And actually success is not that. Success is, I think, and maybe I'm wrong here, but I think success is truly about having a purpose, about being close to family and friends, about being loving, caring, and loyal. And that's what true success is. And we've somehow shifted this idea of what success is to being this sort of toxic idea. And when you're not achieving that, you're then lost. So as young men, if you're not getting there, then it's a problem. But I do think young guys have turned to that because no one else is listening. This is my other problem. Tell me, I want to hear this. It's not a theory, but it's what I've said.

25:14Remember, there was a big thing about men's mental health. It was probably three, four years ago, maybe a bit longer. And it was a thing that men need to talk. That was something I didn't really agree with as well. And I said, that's great. who's going to listen? Who's listening? Because no one's listening anymore. It's a polarized, if you hear something that you don't like, an argument, there's a polarized opinion instantly. There's no conversation anymore. There's no, it is, you don't like what I've said, I'm not going to listen to you anymore. You either like what I say, or we can't, we can't have a discussion um and i think that's a sort of i think we are so polarized in everything now um these conversations can't really you can't have a discussion because it turns you know i think we're seeing this around the world everywhere yeah um and people like trump you know and people now have grown up in this era of celebrities and people bickering on twitter and bickering on Instagram and having a go at each other.

26:24And what do you think this is going to do to children? They're almost not reenacting it, but they've grown up to think this is okay. We have to be so careful about what we say, unless it's taken the wrong way, because people turn things very easily to sensationalize everything, because that's what sells news. Yeah, so it's funny. I made a joke. I do a podcast with my wife, and I made a joke about the fact that it wasn't really, It definitely was a joke. But now looking at it, it doesn't feel like a joke. I made a joke that because she's pregnant, right, and her hormones are slightly all over the place, I said, oh, that I was going to leave her because of her hormones.

27:06It's not a funny joke. It hasn't turned out that funny, but it was sort of funny at the time. We said it on the podcast as a joke together. But then the headlines come out today saying, seen for the first time since Jamie threatened to leave over hormones, which is not a great looking title. It's not the one you want on your Google Alerts. rather the GQ one back to us. Talking about that men's mental health and modeling, right? Modeling, I find a fascinating industry because it is pretty much on the way that you look. Absolutely, yeah. And that must come with deep insecurities because when I started doing the TV stuff, the only thing I cared about at the beginning was what I looked like.

27:48I didn't care what I was saying. didn't care if it was funny or interesting or intimate i didn't care i just cared what i looked like and that and every single time every single week another episode came out i just looked do i look okay oh my god what do i look like there and with modeling i can't even imagine the sort of body dysmorphia that hits um yeah it's a funny thing you read that it's um how honest can you be i can be how honest how i felt i i can't ever talk about other people and it's something I get asked about a lot is about this image that we are portraying that is this unachievable image to other people and it's making them, you know, this kind of element to it.

28:35Which I've always sort of said, you know, and they say, well, you know, of course, David, you have the body you have and you know, it's unachievable. And I always say, hang on a second. Like, when I was 15, 16, and I had quite a bit of puppy fat, and I was a little bit overweight. I didn't have the body I have now. This body is how I wanted to. It's the body because of the sport I played, and because I played it, I wanted to work out. I don't train for the modeling industry. I train because it's been part of my life since I was 18, 19. And again, it's my 40 minutes a day of this freedom of being in the gym, and it's how I feel better.

29:17it's got nothing to do with anyone else it's how I feel the best and I fit that into my day because it makes me feel better and that's basically it so everything is achievable in that sense I can understand the other argument behind it but that is why I say to people and say to any man that it is achievable but did because you, like you said you were a shy kid I've heard you mention before that you experienced some bullying growing up that would, you know, for anyone who's experienced that, it makes you feel insecure. And then going into an industry like modeling, like any sort of place where you're put in the public sphere, did it make you more insecure or did it make you more secure?

30:03I'm not sure if I've ever been insecure. Have you not? No. No, no, no. I never have. Really? And I think my insight, if you saw me drop the kids off in the morning at school when I do the kids around, And if you saw what I looked like at that time in the morning, you'll realize I'm quite secure in what I'm wearing. I brought it to you. It's going to look better than me. I can't go anywhere. My breath is honestly like... But I generally don't care what people think. You've never been insecure? I don't think I have. Get out of here. No, honestly. There's insecurities. I don't look at them and go, you're perfect.

30:45I mean, I've always just gone, you know, look at the nose. Look at the, you know, I've probably never seen what other people maybe have seen because of the self-critical side. But there's a difference between like that insecurity. I'm confident in myself that I'm not like, I'm just not worried about being part of a tribe or a group that I have to fit in because I haven't got the right trainers, watch, car, mobile. So you don't care what people think? I'd rather be the opposite you don't care what people think not particularly no wow I don't I care what they think if about my personality yeah I wouldn't want someone it would devastate me to say he's an unkind person yeah but I don't care if someone goes you know what are you wearing I'd be like what I fucking want it doesn't matter who gives a shit no I prefer it are you insecure would you say you have insecurities within your own personality I always want to work on my personality I've always I think I'm always worried about I mean I I always have a guilt factor about how I've treated people.

31:47I always think about it in the office. I always think about it. Have I, you know, sometimes, you know, business is tough and you have to make decisions. And I am sometimes don't explain myself as thoroughly as I should. And, you know, tempers can get high. That's business and you have to make decisions. Sometimes they're not nice decisions. But I never want people to, I always go back to say someone that evening and not be, you know, sort of two up my own ass not to go, let me explain why this happened. I am sorry for maybe, you know, we went a bit far and we said things or I was wrong. Never be scared to say you're wrong, ever.

32:31That's what people are scared to. The people are scared these days to get things wrong.

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34:04with well where your business that you're building You're juggling your personal brand, which is David Gandhi, which is a, I would say, a sort of worldwide known brand. And then you're building Wellware, which is a separate brand, but you are the founder of it. How do you juggle both? It's around leverage it. Generally leverage the both. Explain that to me. So the fact is with Wellware is it's certainly the hardest thing I've ever done. I knew it was going to be the hardest thing. It's so bloody hard now. So hard. And just a quick one. It doesn't get easier. No, I can't see it. And I knew it was going to be this hard.

34:52It's why I didn't do it. Because I had the David Gandy autograph with M &S. And we did over 80 million in sales in five years. 80? 80 million, yeah. So, and then we came out of M &S. and I've never ever planned it. I knew how hard it was going to be, but it was the last sort of tick in the box I had to do. And I just had guys coming up to me and saying, in the supermarket on the street, and Parker's going, David, we can't get your t-shirts. Where can we get your t-shirts? As if I was selling them out of my boot or something of the car. I was like, guys, we just don't make them anymore. I'm so sorry.

35:31And it just carried on. And then one of my best friends started a creative agency and a branding agency. and he said, look, I think we could do this again. And that's where Wellware started. But of course, you haven't got the M &S funds, the M &S money, the M &S marketing, advertising. You're starting off with not very much money in the small team, and that was three years ago. But it's difficult. It's difficult. But sort of leveraging my, the brand is, yes, I'm two separate entities. But in the end, you have to look at where, and there's always a plan. there's always a you know five-year plan in the end well where needs to be a separate entity but i need to have built it up and you know i can help you know like i've done with other brands to be the ambassador to be the face to be the driving force and i am going to use that advantage hopefully 100 and that's and that's what i've had to learn with my businesses is that that's where I'm most useful.

36:33And focusing on that is really important. Yeah, it opens doors to a lot of people, if you know where you're going. But it's tough. But with well-wear, it's about integrating style with well-being. So how does style and well-being work together? Well, the well-being element to it is, I've always had this idea that you should have confidence from your clothing. Clothing should give you confidence. um when i was talking about me going out in trend driven stuff and walking out i you know don't just never me walking out and instantly i've lost that confidence in me i'm not me anymore i'm something else um why i always loved tailoring tailing to me to a point was like a suit of armor i put it on i would i knew i was ready to go i was ready to go into battle and you know face the day and but that would go with you know a great fitting t-shirt and a pair of jeans and uh I still felt as good.

37:27And clothing, as much as looking good, should make you feel good. And it's about the tactical element or the tangible element of that clothing, what it's made from, how it feels. We all have that, our favorite. We have our favorite of everything. We have probably our favorite pair of underwear, our favorite T-shirts, our favorite jumpers. And half the time, you'll probably say they're probably the most comfortable. you know they are the things that not that look good but the comfort level of those things and it's it's a it's seen there are studies that proof if you're if you're comfortable they did it with students um in this study that that when they were more comfortable in items they were allowed to be in confidence they did better in exams they were more open to people maybe they were talking colors weird thing is like if someone's wearing blue um people are more open with you and that it it's very strange and they have more confidence it's it's it's that idea that we sort of came up with so i just put a number i said to guys if we're doing this it has to be style led um super comfortable as sustainable as possible or responsible as possible um and you know what else can we what else can we put into this brand um and and wellness is such a big thing at the moment and the guys went off and they came back and they said look we can put treatments within the clothing so we can put infrared infrared basic treatment technology within a hoodie so it absorbs the the fabrics absorb your your heat from your body and then put it back into your body wow oxygenation and and we we've done the same with um all our summer stuff is uv protectant um and then we have sort of well wear breathe and well wear care so all our pajamas have aloe vera in them which moisturizes your skin and then we have in most of our t-shirts i think wear t-shirts actually um we we have some antibacterial anti-odor technology in it um many reasons for that um you don't have to wash your clothes clothes as long uh sorry as much so you're um i mean i had a meeting today with uh talking about microplastics which is one of the scariest conversations i think i've had near that it's just terrible it's in everything it's um well you you i'm not to take this in a very weird way but you know it's just found it in men's testicles because of the water that we're drinking everything breathing everything else and they're actually thinking of the declining birth rates and people not being able to conceive as is to do with this um so we you know we even even to this idea of when we came to build our swimwear and i said you know guys we're making swimwear out of you have to make them out of a polymer resin what's the you know that's great but it's you know polymer resins if it goes on landfill it's here for 50 to 100 years so they went to italy and found the fabric that's biodegradably enhanced which if ends up on landfill which unfortunately a lot of clothing does that it breaks down in in in three years instead of 50 years so we're just trying to prove to other people what could be done to break the cycle in the fashion game as well.

40:33I love it. You very kindly, I don't know if you know, but you sent me some of your clothes and whenever I take a flight, I'm always in at the airport. It looks great and it's so comfortable and it feels amazing. Yeah. And you're so right. And it's weird. You go back to tailoring or a suit or your clothes with world wear. when you wear something that makes you feel good and you feel comfortable in it it makes you makes you mentally feel better yeah absolutely what is the what is the jeopardy with something like starting a business the jeopardy um i think it's more jeopardy if you're if you're scared of failing are you scared of failing no no this would this would if i had never started a brand that I would have gone on life going, I should have started a brand.

41:30What if now this has been so hard, you know how hard it is and you can never really explain how sometimes hard it is. And yeah, I think you have this lovely idea that will be in the gorgeous office and we'll be coming up with creative ideas and our budgets will be huge and we'll have billboards. I mean, no, no, no, not at all. I literally like, that looks great. It looks fantastic. Let me try that. Great. I'm often going to get some more money and finance and, and, uh, yeah, I can't afford to pay everyone this week. Yeah. I can everyone. That's it. That's basically your, you know, and, and then it just takes, I literally said to Charlie, you know, he's my MD and I went, when the last time I had any good news, literally because it's been.

42:11I'm 14 years into Canada. I don't think I've had good news since making the logo back at the beginning. I don't think it is. It's so hard. But you, but you keep building and you keep going and you never give up, but it comes with a, I think the jeopardy, right, because you are David Gandhi, if the business doesn't work, it falls on you. Of course it falls on me. And I'm also responsible now for, like you are, people's livelihoods and people being paid and wages. And before it was just me. It was me. I, in many ways, didn't have anything to lose in the modern game when I took chances. and how we transitioned from a very commercial catalogue model.

42:58I had to give up everything to then go after what I wanted to achieve. I didn't have anything to lose. People say it was a gutsy move, and I don't really think it was. It is a gutsy move. I only really was. I find that story is so amazing. In the mornings, you were doing those things, and you just said no. You stopped everything. You did nothing. You said no to all the jobs. and you just waited? David Morgan Well, we did a shoot with Tanny Ernst and the owner of Select. I did a shoot with Lawrence Thomas, her now husband. And now, I mean, everyone says it was that light blue image, which it was.

43:34That was in the stratosphere when it came out. That was mental. But it was two or three images that Lawrence took that totally changed everything. David Morgan What were the images? David Morgan The images were just very different to what I'd done before. and people because I had come out I think all the images I had were commercial images I wasn't doing editorials I didn't have any you know major campaign shoots so it was cheesy catalogue um so you couldn't really use any of them so we just did a test and we did this very very different and by that stage and even in that five years um I had changed a lot and you went from being a 21 year old not a man at all to you know a man really because you're mid-20s you are you've grown into yourself a bit um and and it had changed and that from those pictures were sent out and then i started getting a bit of work and um yeah it was we then um you got booked no i we we can we can try to we tanny anderson said i'm going tonight to i'm going to a dinner with dolce and gabbana it's her birthday you have to be there how can we get you there and she came up with this idea and she said right it's mariano vanko who i literally spoke to this morning he took my first ever headshots he he was at the party and he said so i'm going to tell mariano that we have airline tickets that you've got to come pick up because you're going away on a flight tomorrow so coming make sure you go and say hello to a minute ago and stefano gulch and gabbana and i went in and i went i went hi guys so sorry to interrupt your party and i've got to pick up and he said david no stay stay stay please and i said oh thank you so much and i stayed and i missed my train home and it was you know back to i think i was living essex at the time and uh because i had to and um and uh yeah and and that's where the week after we got put on i got put an option for the campaign and then from the campaign led to doing light blue explain light blue quickly for anyone who doesn't know what light blue is light blue is the dolce gabbana light blue fragrance which i i'm not doing anymore um i did it for 18 years so it was a fragrance that was a women's fragrance and then the men's fragrance started in 2006 and i was um cast as the um the very sort of italian looking guy um to to uh be the face of it you um the picture is iconic it's you in very small very small very very small white speedos looking incredibly tanned ripped i reckon they used some sort of oil on your body there was oil definitely oil on that body um and you're lying on a boat yeah you know the the funniest story and i always tell this story so that was in 2005 2006 so we probably started me i met them at that meeting i was told you about probably 2005 and it was in 2001 i just started i went to go and do my um first show season in milan which is hell it's what's it like i don't know what it's all for you you literally have you're either requested for these shows or it's a general casting there are thousands of guys all going for the same job they're trying to put a t-shirt on you that the last 300 sweaty guys have tried on which is soaking wet it's it's a it's a farm just it's it's it's awful i did it once and I went never again.

46:58But anyway, I got Dolce & Gabbana, and I did the show. And then the second time, I didn't really go back, but I went back for Dolce because Dolce kind of directly kind of booked me, and I went for the casting. I got it. But what Dolce do, they start, they have the first show. And what they do with every guy is almost give you a haircut where it's so Dolce because they like buzz. It's hard to explain. they buzz the side of your hair off so that you're kind of dolce for the rest of it it's quite clever oh they do that say make you look dolce so you can't go anywhere else well you do but you're then dolce and um that was that was the theory behind why they used to do it whether it was true or not but basically they basically brand you like cattle they used to send you down to the barbershop down below the fitting so i went for the fitting and at the time i was an option for a big amani campaign and i had longer hair slight longer hair and they said no we like david's long hair make sure it keeps up so i went down i went oh no you can't cut my hair because i'm so they went i'm going to speak to dominico and stefano so i went upstairs again i went dominico stefano i went i i'm on option for something i can't cut my hair and you know that if i think about it now they're in the middle of like trying to fit 400 guys and you know they've got this major show and i'm sort of tapping on the shoulder going so sorry they're in a car can't can't cut my hair and they were like David David David you know either cut your hair or you don't do the show and I didn't cut it and I didn't do the show no and I left and I didn't get the Giorgio Armani campaign as well so that was see that was a that was a decision made then is that stubbornness or opportunity that you just stupidity just stupidity no but maybe it wasn't maybe maybe yeah you know listen you take you take the chance but at that point it was um you know um it was a marnie why you take the what is the i have a couple of friends that you made is sam webb uh amazing sam webb just yeah just the best and uh cheshire and those guys and i've heard stories about how amazing it was whether was it a pretty wild time as well back then there was some great time how many I can talk about it's a great time I wasn't as wild as Loathe they were they were wild you had you know at all eras how wild were you?

49:27well I mean before before there was a group of guys Robert Kwanjic Bill Gentle now you probably won't know anything these were the superstars from Select and they were doing everything and they were like the Rat Pack of the Modding History but again you didn't and I wasn't part of them. And I saw what they achieved, but I wanted more than that because I thought, actually I saw what they do. I said, why is there a glass ceiling that you're not breaking through to be this? You're still not a name. And when I know those names in the industry, everyone will know them. That's why I thought about it slightly differently.

50:06But Webby and Cheshire and everyone, they were the youngest sort of Rat Pack. and um was there a lot of drinking yeah still is yeah there was a lot of drinking ask Webby about the Victoria's Secret after party once

50:27that's always a good story I've never experienced like so mad in my life when I went out with a friend of ours called Sam Webb and other people and it was I was it was me and a group of models and I was like why is everyone just looking at us in this nightclub I was like what is going on and then I suddenly realized it was mad the because it feels like it was that sort of maybe still now but that sort of time just felt like it would there was a different there was an energy and putting a lot of beautiful people into a space with alcohol and whatever that feels like a wild party yeah I was never one of the the party I honestly probably never was.

51:08I had some incredible moments. I remember. Did you ever find yourself in a situation where you're like, this is mad that I'm here with this person and that person. I sat there at Dolce & Gabbana party with Matthew McConaughey, Jennifer Lopez, just everyone. I mean, you're sitting there going, what am I doing here? This is just absolute madness. And then I remember there was a song coming on. And I was like, Diana Ross. I was like, I love this song. Literally, like, going over to Matthew McConaughey. I fucking love this song. I might go for a dance.

51:42And everyone's rushing out. It was fucking Diana Ross. She was actually there singing the song. They brought Diana Rossing to sing the song.

51:53Where did the love of tailoring come from? Don't know. You would think in many ways that my love of tailoring design design i include like architecture cars the whole thing um would come from family history and thing like that but it wasn't my my dad and grandfather came from very impoverished backgrounds they they didn't they didn't have much at all until dad built his businesses up and went from there but he didn't um you know sort of fashion or style was not something majorly in our house So neither was cars and neither was, and, but it was always just something ingrained into me. Like my mom would say, you just used to, you used to choose what you wanted to wear when you were a kid.

52:40And, um, tailoring came about, but my dad had, I've still got the suit. He had a suit made in East London, pinstriped wall suit. I've kept it because it was my first suit and I knew I loved that. And I couldn't wait to the day I kind of, you know, could wear that. And my grandfather and my father were always people who would shine, you know, they shine their shoes. I still shine my shoes. I have a shine kit. And there's this thing ingrained into me that you don't keep buying shoes. Your shoes will last forever when you shine your shoes. And now my daughters, I get my shine, they're like, we're going to shine shoes.

53:12It's really strange, but we stand there shining shoes together. And it's kind of like an art and you look after pieces. I've always been taught. But my father, if you looked at my grandfather and my father, they obviously didn't have much but what they had and what they didn't like you know they would they would always have a half winds at eye it wasn't you know it was always impeccably impeccably you know sort of created it looked good everything was fitting well and even though there was pride in appearance there was pride i suppose in appearance yeah and in the traditions of tailoring i suppose that kind of got instilled into me and yeah you know it's tailoring is when no one was wearing tailoring and i when i started i sort of remember when i was um boarding as ambassador for men's fashion week and um i just went i'm going i'm going for tailoring because no one's in it no one's wearing tailoring i feel like tailoring needs to come back and but explain that to me someone who doesn't understand that what do you mean tailoring isn't in tailoring needs to come back what does that mean tailoring because we We were in a very sort of dressed down element of, so we're talking 15 years ago.

54:23And I just decided, and in my head, it was like, this is the British Fashion Awards. I'm ambassador for it. I'm on the British Fashion Council. I need to be in a suit, tie, tailoring. And I worked with Tom Sweeney and lots of different brands just for this day. And that's where kind of then tailoring started to build. and then you know tom sweeney had their real moment i mean they still are but of the horseshoe waistcoat that kind of everyone was in and that was their moment tom sweeney um that launched them but i've you know worked with you know sort of so henry paul saviro you know if when people talk about um they'll talk about a a tuxedo or a dinner suit and henry paul invented the dinner suit it needs to be in midnight blue.

55:10It should never be black. A black is a tuxedo. So if someone shows me like a dinner suit, I'd be like, well, that's a tuxedo. And they'll say, no, no, it's a dinner. I said, no, no, that's a tuxedo. You need to be in midnight blue. The British dinner suit is in midnight blue or the dinner jacket. And I have one of their original, not original, they made it for me. And so I got to this love of tailoring and seeing, and the love of Savile Row and this this artistry that goes on in this incredible street in london and i seem to then become unofficial ambassador for sort of savile row um but it's just that is a true flex tradition of you know uk and everywhere in the world every man where do you want to where do you want a suit made with several row anywhere in the world and that's why i was you know and then several has changed a lot thank goodness now because um we've got a lot of new brands and a lot of new names and there and tailors and female tailors and everything else.

56:06So it was exciting to sort of be part of that transition along and working with the brands. So it's the traditional thing that you also love. Because I think, and I don't know you, but it feels like you're a lover of history. I was listening to an interview that you did and you said one of the only roles that you would love to play was Churchill's bodyguard. Oh, yeah. It's so interesting that, right? And so you obviously, maybe consciously or subconsciously, you're a huge lover of British history. Because if you're the traditional, the suit and Savile Row and shining your shoes. Shining your shoes, by the way, is one of the fundamental things.

56:46I think people, in the army, the reason why they shine their shoes is because if you do the small things right, the bigger things fall into place. It's a really good attitude to have in life. and you feel like you had this sort of um yeah love of history and tradition yeah i mean i do love history and that's probably why i've always stuck to living in london i've had my stints in america and new york which i love as well but i always loved coming back to london i love walking around london i've lived in london for 20 odd years and still i can walk past street walk down the street i've never been to before and there's a history behind it um those i live near richmond park and um i was talking to one of the rangers and there's this big gate in richmond park if you walk up to the west northwest side that says the way it's because the way in the railings and the range said to me don't know what that is i said no he said well you know you have to see some board's cathedral from there it was it was built to commemorate the 300 or 400 year wow and i said from richmond park and he said yeah i was like no you can't see some board's cathedral so of course that afternoon he went well i've got to go and walk up there and i said i walked up there with a dog and it was and i looked through and if you look the hedges there's seven viewpoints i believe around london where you have to viewst paul's cathedral so from richmond park nothing can be built from your view there i think it's seven miles all the way to and those parts of history i was like i absolutely sort of adore things like that um what era do you think you would like to be born in probably the 50s why they made some really good race cars in the 50s, Jim.

58:20Like what? Give them to me. I'm a Jaguar man. And we race in the, I think called the Millet Millet, which is a thousand mile historic race. You have to have a pre-1957 car and you race a thousand miles in three days. And it's like going back to the era, I suppose. And it's when I'm happiest, really. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Racing. Why? Give it to me explain why is that when you're the happiest i suppose it's the freedom of the driving you're not concentrating on anything else at that point no cars are very different nowadays this is a car with you know disc brakes it's it's from you know it could be 65 years of age um and you are racing this car on public road not racing we should never call it a race it's a rally okay we're we're we're putting down in italian roads there's nothing else to think about at that moment apart from you and that machine and, and, and driving and getting the most out of that machine.

59:17nothing is taken out of your focus. Like there's, you know, there's no time. There's not your phone or any, you can't hear anything. You know, there's no one talking to you. Um, there was time. The first day of race I did, I did with the Yasmin Le Bon. And there was a time we were driving through, hurting through, through Tuscany in a 57 XK 120. That's a good image. And Yasmin Le Bon was feeding me, hand feeding me Haribo into my mouth. And at that point, I thought, it doesn't really get better than this, does it? Like, how do you top this? Like, if it ended now, you'd probably be quite a happy man.

59:51This is all right. David, this is everything and more that I wanted. Man, I really appreciate it. Like, honestly, it's been an absolute pleasure. And yeah, it's been amazing to just like, I think there's something so mysterious about the world that you lived and what you're doing now and to sort of be open about it. It's just amazing. We end our conversation with eight quick-fire questions. Are you ready for this? Yeah, go. A single phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? Never argue with stupid people. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

1:00:34Unbelievable. That's right. That's unbelievable. Best compliment anyone's ever given you. You're a good dad. Last time you cried and why? Every time Rachel Reeves opened her mouth.

1:00:52What scares you most about yourself? My determination. What's something you can't let go of?

1:01:04Chris Norman once t-boned me in a karting race when I was about 18, just so that I came from the back of the field when I was in first. And to me, just so I didn't win. Can't let that one go, I'm afraid. He even says to me, you can't let that go, can you? I bring it up every time. I'm like, no, I can't let that one go. Sorry. Guilty pleasure. What is it? My lawn. It's my new love, Jamie. My lawn and my lawnmower. Are you serious? Yeah. Once you're a dad, get a lawn. The smell of cut grass. Oh, man. You'll get into it. You'll understand it in about six years' time. I can't wait. What turns you off?

1:01:38turns me off um oh goodness me there's quite a few things um I'm supposed to be quick fire um I can't stand noisy eating like literally I have that I think what it's called when you there's actually there's like a syndrome or something yet I can't stand it what turns you on um death my partner great answer great answer well done well done I better get laid for that. There you go. Yeah, well done. What do you like most about yourself? Oh, God. I didn't think you could... Come on. It can be anything. Personality can be anything. Anything at all. I think I'm a good dad. I think I'm falling into something that I actually feel like I'm naturally good at.

1:02:27And I hope that's true. And I will, it turns out. But I actually feel like I'm quite proud of that. And bonus one for me. Best person you've ever done a shoot with. model

1:02:43it was Chrissy it was Chrissy Turniton really you've never seen anything like I've never seen I've never I'm not really starstruck but I but I couldn't stop staring at her you understand why supermodels supermodels they are almost superhuman really and she was just the loveliest person and yeah she was still to the stage and that's that's although I probably it wasn't a shoot I saw Michelle Pfeiffer in the street in New York once. And that was just, I think I was just there for five minutes. And when she was there, she was like, we were at the lights and we were crossing the road. And she turned, she looked at her and I just looked at her.

1:03:22I was like, my God, it's Michelle Pfeiffer. And she carried on and I was just still looking. And so I just wandered home and I went, oh my God. It was, oh, Michelle Pfeiffer. What happened to that Victoria's Secret afterthought?

1:03:39We'll leave it there. David, thank you so much. Thank you, mate.

1:03:48Matt, what, just a good-looking guy. Very good-looking man. Do you feel intimidated? At the beginning, I was intimidated. Nice guy. Nice guy. Interesting guy, great guy, great stories, great kind of insight into just everything and quite deep in lots of ways. I really, really enjoyed it. I enjoyed that too. We hope you liked it as well. Remember, please get in touch at Great Company Podcast on Instagram. You can slide down our DMs or you can send us an email. Greatcompany at jampodproductions.co.uk And of course, we'll be back. We'll see you next week. For another episode of Great Company.

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