EXCLUSIVE - TULISA'S UNTOLD TRUTH BEHIND DRUGS SCANDAL

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2:17Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Lang, and this is Great Company.

2:24Welcome back, everyone, to Great Company Podcast. Happy Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, or whatever day you're listening to this. Thursday, Friday. There are two voices here. One is me, Jamie, the host, and you are? Jemima, the producer. She's the producer. PJ. She likes to be called PJ. And if you're new to the show, we basically talk to amazing guests every single week. And if you're an OG and you've been here before, you know exactly why you're here. and it's hopefully something that you like and enjoy. Look forward to the highlight of your week. 100%. I've just got to say, Jamie is wearing quite a noisy rain mac, so if you hear someone shuffling around...

3:01Shuffling. Shuffling. Shuffling or shuffling? I don't know, shuffling. Give us a shuffle. Yeah, listen to that. That's just Jamie wiggling in his seat. Shuffling. Shuffling in his seat. Hey, um... Deeply distracted by that. Gone. By the way... Gone. We have an exclusive today. I'm so excited. It's very, very exciting. And this brings me back to a real nostalgic time in my life when I was a teenager and a huge fan because we have Talisa. Talisa. Talisa on the podcast today. Talisa was the lead singer in a band called N-Dubs. Can you remember what are their hits? Oh. When I look in the mirror, I don't really recognise myself.

3:46I'm a world of a winner. I'm sorry, listeners. And they always used to say, na-na-na-na-ee. Oh, yeah. The two other people in the band were Faisa and Dappy. Dappy and Talisa. With the hat. Dappy, yeah. Dappy and Talisa are cousins. Oh. Yeah, and Talisa and Dappy were Dappy's father, Talisa's uncle. He was the one, the rock behind the band. And Talisa dated Faisa for a while, so it's very much a family thing. And they grew up in really sort of hard times. I mean, really hard times. Talisa's mum has severe mental health issues and had a lot growing up there's a lot of crime around them and even growing up in the sort of public eye and being N-dubs they had a really tough time because they were seen as this sort of like bad group like you don't want your kids to sort of represent what N-dubs represented but they still broke through the surface and did amazing things it's cool though bands like that people think are cool yeah but the amazing thing today Talisa's written a book called Judgment and it's out tomorrow it's out tomorrow if you're listening on Wednesday If you're listening on Wednesday.

4:50And what is so interesting is that Talisa had at the top of her fame, the very top, she suddenly got it all taken away from her because she was involved in an entrapment case involving cocaine, drugs. And what turned out is that she was set up by the Sun newspaper. I've actually interviewed Talisa before for something else and she didn't want to talk about this. Really? Yeah, and she says now, you hear about this in the episode, she now feels comfortable to talk about it. So, listeners, strap in. Strap in. And get ready for this exclusive episode. If you haven't subscribed to our show already, just click that button.

5:34It does us absolute wonders. And let us know in the comments what you like about the show, what guests you think we should have on next. And also, you can get in touch via Instagram at greatcompanypodcast or email us greatcompany at jampoproductions.co.uk. You ready for this? That was wonderful. Jamie just took the reins on that whole interview. I'm so sorry, Jemima. Oh, no, sorry. I don't mean it like that. I just was really enjoying. Oh, you were? I was on that ride. You can keep listening. You set that up so well. Really? Yeah. All right. I am strapped in. I've put my seatbelt on. Get ready for this episode because this is an exclusive.

6:06An exclusive. With Talisa on Great Company. Hey, guys. I'm Talisa and I am in Great Company.

6:17Do you think people know that we've met before? Because I'm like, I told you this last time. I'm like, honestly, one of your biggest fans. I told you this last time. I offered you tickets for the London show. What did I say? You just didn't respond. Get out of here! Get out of here! I messaged after, I was like, come down to the show, bring soap. I've got tickets for you, you just didn't respond. That can't be. I just don't believe that's true. Well, you've both got tickets to the next one if you want it. so are you doing you're doing more yeah we will do we're not we've not announced anything yet but we're looking it won't be any later than 2027 because last time remember when we last spoke and you you announced that Ndebs was coming back the tickets sold out under 10 minutes yeah crazy that is wild I think the first set sold out in three and then we did another four O2s no another three O2s so four in total three minutes yeah it's bonkers What are you guys open with?

7:15Ouch Come on Has to be done Has to be done And the whole arena just erupts With 6.30 in the morning And it's just Yeah, it's mental It's mental That feeling when you're back on stage Like Nothing like it Man Nothing like it I actually worry Because in my younger years I feel like I did all the tours pretty much drunk I was just like rock star vibes So I would get through an entire bottle of JD per show. And obviously, you know, I've aged a bit. Haven't really got it in me anymore. So I'm all teetotal, training in the gym. And I thought, how am I going to do this? Sober. And best tour of my life.

7:55Are you serious? Loved it. Loved every second of it. Because you're actually living it in the present and actually enjoying it. Yeah, I feel present for the first time. Actually, I could walk off stage and remember what happened. Is that what you used to have? You used to go through a whole bottle of JD? Yeah. I mean, we all did. We would walk on stage with the J.D. bottle. It wasn't like a secret. We'd get the audience to like neck with us and grab their drinks. We were just little rock stars. But is that also because of like the persona as well, right? Yeah. I mean, and we'd love to drink on stage.

8:26It was just a buzz. You know what I mean? When you're like 21, you can do that. Man, I used to be the same. I mean, like when I found alcohol for the first time, I was like, what is this nectar? How old were you? I think I was 16. When I really experienced it, I had a Bacardi Breezer when I was 14. Okay. And then I had a Cosmopolitan. Oh. Yeah, in Club Med. Okay, spicy. Yeah, real spicy. And then I got really drunk, maybe 15. Maybe it was 15, I got really drunk. And I remember thinking, it was like, what is this like feeling? The incredible sensation. I like couldn't believe this was like a thing that people get to experience and have.

9:06And I was like, man, this is like the best thing ever. Yeah, I think I was 11. And my friend's older brother, who was like 15, he walked in the house with a bottle of Jamaican rum and her mum was out. And he was like, do you want some? And I was like, yeah. And I basically took a glass just like this, maybe just a tiny bit under, like a whole mug full to the brim. And I nicked the Jamaican rum. That was my first ever experience with alcohol. and the first the first maybe like half an hour was the best half an hour of my entire life Yeah, yeah, yeah and then when the illness kicked in Yeah Yeah, it was an experience Anytime I smell Jamaican rum to this day it just makes me I had it Mine was absinthe Oh, dangerous Yeah, it was Jesus We used to do this thing I was my first time that happened I was in Portugal and we used to drink this thing called Gold Strike and Absinthe okay what's gold strike gold strike it was like the shot that you would do and they said it had gold flakes in the bottom right and the gold flakes probably some toxic like like lead I was like necking and um suppose the idea was you'd have gold strike and absinthe mixed yeah the gold strike would cut your throat and the absinthe would then get into it it'd go into your bloodstream quicker wow so I was like necking these things and I remember walking across this like bridge bit next to the beach in Portugal.

10:32And what I thought was Danny from McFly. Funny. Like at the time, I was like, I thought it was Danny from McFly. I was like 14 walking across the, last thing I remember, I woke up in hospital. Did you ever find out? Next to Danny from McFly. No, no, it wasn't. I woke up. Did you ever find out if it actually was Danny from McFly? I don't think it was. It was a guy. Weirdly enough, do you know who I think it was? Who? This is such a random caveat, but this is what I found out years later. a guy called Oli Locke did a TV show made in Chelsea I know Oli because he was in Big Brother with Daffy wasn't he?

11:07Oli Locke said that he looked like Danny from McFly when he was younger and he was also in Portugal in the same place so I think it was Oli Locke This is one of the world's greatest mysteries I love Oli he always sends me like little random DMs like out of the blue like once

11:31Dappy's your cousin. Yes. And Fraser was also friends with Dappy and also you knew. So you were just a team together, right? And N-Dub started at such a young age. I know you've spoken about that. Just before people who haven't had the context, just tell me just really briefly how that all started. Well, Dappy and Fraser met at the age of eight years old in karate lessons. Yeah. And then they became best friends. And so then I was always with Dappy. Dappy was like my best mate and my brother, even though he was my cousin who was the leader of the youtube when you were younger him was he he was the leader and the bad influence okay all right um and i used to think like he was super cool because he was mr popular and i was a bit of a nerd um and then i obviously met phaser through him and then when we got to 11 i decided i wanted to move to daffy's school daffy and phaser school to be with them and i remember daft and phaser took me shopping to make me cool you know like one of those old school teen movies where the girl's like super nerdy and she's got like glasses and pigtails and then Daffy's like right you're gonna wear these gap jumpers and get you these night tns and then he's like well you're gonna wear your hair like this and I do it in a side part in you're gonna wear these earrings and then he like brought me into school like this is my super cool cousin and I was just there dressed up as an imposter um and yeah we started making music from then from the age of like 11 years old in my dad and my uncle B's studio um we were little terrors always bunking off school but at least we're doing something productive which paid off um and yeah we we didn't really get any success until the age of I want to say 17 so there was a long run running up before we actually cracked it of us perfecting our craft and grafting away making music there's a lot of unheard when we were called the little rinsers Like the little rascals Yeah like the little rinsers Because we rinsed the mic We were 11 Man I like it With a CK Lickle Lickle The Lickle Rinsers I read that when you were younger All you wanted to be was rich and famous Yeah In that order Why was that so Why was that such an aspiration for you Why did you want to get that Life was just a bit crap for me And I spent most of my childhood wanting freedom, wanting to live by myself, wanting to have my own place.

13:59And I felt like the only way I could do that and the easiest way I could do it was to utilize my talent and get rich and famous. Yeah, it's funny because when I was younger, that's what I wanted to be. I thought that if I was, if I could get some sort of fame, then, and almost be like loved by everyone, then all of these sort of insecurities that I was feeling would go away. 100%. But they didn't. Oh no, they got worse. It got worse. Always the way. It's weird. It's sort of, be careful what you wish for. Yeah. And I think what it is, is you spend your entire childhood basing your life around this hope of this feeling that everything's going to be perfect if you can gain this.

14:42and then when you get there and you feel the void is still there yeah then it's like 10 times worse because any anxiety or depression that you had comes crashing down even further because you're like well what now because at least you had the hope that if you got to that place everything would be okay and then if you get there and then it's not at all then you're like now what now what's going to fill the void it's so right we have this like blueprint sometimes and when the blueprint doesn't live up to what it's meant to be you're suddenly like stuck you're like hang on my north star the thing that i thought was going to get me out of this place isn't yeah and then you're suddenly thinking fuck now what the fuck now what the fuck do i do yeah why did you want to escape your childhood so much um my mom had severe mental health issues so she has schizoaffective disorder which is bipolar and schizophrenia combined um man she look it's not her fault but she was constantly going through waves of illness I don't think I can remember longer than a year of her being completely well where she didn't you know take a turn and it would it would we'd call it episodes so it would kind of be this progressive journey where she'd start to change the whole thing could last about eight months after maybe a month six weeks of the change it would get really bad then she'd have to be hospitalized and then she'd remain in hospital for months and months and months I would go to an aunt's house and then she'd come out start going into recovery I'd be sent over for visits and then I'd get slowly integrated back into the home again but this would just repeat every year and a half constantly um so it just wasn't a great time and I wanted my space and I wanted my freedom and I wanted to escape it's hard to understand that when you're a kid right that's hard to process really hard to comprehend yeah and I always I always find it's like especially people in the public life especially like yourself people just see you as like Talisa yeah we don't walk around with life stories slapped on our forehead so it's very easy to just yeah yeah is your mom okay now she's okay unfortunately she has Alzheimer's now because of all the years of the constant medication she's had to be on it shrinks the brain so um you know that's now another added thing to the situation but um you know it is what it is as is life and these things happen you're you're i can even the way you're like expressing it right i can almost feel like you it's almost like in the box you're just like that's what it is just pure acceptance like i've just come to the point in my life where if you can't control it let it go and I'm like that with everything.

17:29How do you do that? For me, that's a really hard thing sometimes. I feel like there's no other option. I will go insane otherwise if I take, like I can't take on the weight of the world and constant stresses and drama. I'm just at the point where anything that stresses me out or disturbs my peace, I'm just like, I can't. Good on you, man. Don't get through that barrier. Hold that arm up. Oh, 100%. Like I couldn't be any other way. I think because I am prone to, you know, depression and stuff like that, my mental health can be fragile so I have to do the utmost to protect it which means surrounding myself with constant positivity no negative energy no toxicity no low vibrational humans it's just keeping the life keeping my life the way I want it creating the life I want to live and creating the environment that I want to be in and a lot of the time we have a choice with that totally and we forget that and there's a lot we can do and I always say when you're going through life and you're feeling like shit isn't right look into you and go okay what is there for me to do no matter how small or how big what change can i make before you start you know moaning and looking out to the whole world going you know it's everyone else and putting blame do what you can control first and then see how you feel that's a really great advice it's 100 true and i suppose when that's all going on at home and then end dubs is that huge escape right so you're then like right I can put my all into this because this is going to take me away from all of that.

18:55So here we go. I'm just going to go full blast into it. A hundred percent. It's like I was obsessed with it. I used to sit in my bed at night banging my head against the wall going, you have to let me fucking make it. Like talking to God. I remember once, it's so effed up. That's mad. I made this, like I thought I was making, obviously God doesn't do deals like this, but I was like, I'm willing to sacrifice something. I said, I looked up to the sky and I said to God, you can take love away. I'll never have a partner. I'll never get married. I'll never have any children. I'll never be in love with anyone.

19:30Just give me my career. That's all I want. I'll trade that if I have to. I'll sacrifice it. Wow. Like God makes deals. But that was my thing. Sometimes you make a deal with yourself, right? Yeah. And so then you think you're making a deal with God, but actually making a deal with self. Yeah. And so therefore you do, you end up, again, be careful what you wish for. Because then what you do is you start sacrificing everything to gain that success. And normally that is social life, love life, friendships, everything. Yeah, 100%. When you became famous, what did it feel like to you? It was like, I've done it.

20:05It was that, yes. It was, I felt like I wasn't alone as well. Because it's all that I'd prayed for. So I was like, you gave it to me. So it was that kind of feeling. Life made. Life made. Nothing can describe that buzz, that initial buzz when we first cracked it. I can remember doing the first show where we got success and it was in a place called Red Hill. And there was like this just 2000 capacity club, but we'd sold out. And we went in there, 2000 kids singing every word to our song back to back from the top of their lungs, screaming at us like we were bloody Justin Bieber. are and me Dappy and Fazer just looked at each other and were like what is going on and that was the moment and then B got to see that Dappy's dad and then he literally passed like three days later but he got to see the moment before he went and B was your uncle who basically made it all happen yeah yeah what a ledge props to Uncle B And Dobbs becomes huge You then become X Factor's youngest judge on it It's like high flying Everything is going And it is like You're the name on everyone's lips Like everyone Yeah, it was crazy It was crazy I remember being at university And just seeing you And just thinking you're the queen You really, you would just stay Yeah, 100 % So that was the worst thing I've ever done but you were like a hundred percent like and um and then the next stage is what's happening is that the the press is constantly like after you they're they're constantly after you they're trying to find things they're just digging things up they're just doing everything they're going for you going for you and then suddenly you're caught in a sting entrapment completely explain to me everything like I want to know every little bit of detail I honestly just tell me everything what happened um god okay here we go um I had gone to LA I was really sick of doing X Factor because of the press attention and the media it was really heavy for me so I wanted an escape um so I thought let me go into acting it means I could move to LA I could you know become someone else when I'm work in.

22:31As soon as I got off the plane, I had received like a Twitter DM from 21st Century Fox, someone at 21st Century Fox using their official account, putting me in touch with these Bollywood slash Hollywood producers that are interested in me for a movie role. A long story short is I go into about four to five months of meetings with these producers uh i've flown to las vegas like first class flights hotels um they basically told me they're doing their first big bollywood slash hollywood production it's going to have kira knight no not kira knightley it's going to have leonardo dicaprio in it um and the the lead female is going to be this sort of ghetto girl like a ghetto girl from Camden.

23:23And it's this kind of troubled love story because of a culture clash. But she's like really hood and she's kind of naughty and she's from the streets. And we think you'd be right for the role because you are that character in real life. But we want to give it to also possibly Keira Knightley to play. I know it's so messed up. But when you're getting DMs from 21st Century Fox and you're getting flown to Las Vegas. And you're looking for your way out. You're looking for that moment as well. Yeah. And there's a million actors that they've hired, right? So they've got their own accountants. They've got lawyers.

24:01They're pulling up contracts. They're pulling up scripts. Like it was so extreme. Like they're sitting down with my accountant talking about, you know, how I'm going to receive the three million pound fee. And then they've obviously, they tried to get me done for offshore accounts as well. So they were trying to put that to my account. And luckily he was like, no, we don't do all that around here. But yeah, and they just kept goading me to play up to the bad girl role. There was an assistant of one of the producers who was a female. And this assistant kind of befriended me. She said she was a big Talisa fan.

24:41She knew about my mum's mental health. She knew about how spiritual I was. She'd read my original autobiography. and she's like I really want to help you um and she would pull me in the toilet and take the recorders off like herself she would have left her recorders off and then she'll say to me listen I need you to go up there out there and up the ante like you have to make him believe that you are this ghetto chick in the role otherwise he's not going to give you the role he's going to give it to Keira Knightley so I literally go from saying yeah I used to smoke a bit of weed and I was in a bit of a, you know, rough group of girls and we used to have fights to, oh yeah, I used to sell crack, you know, I know people with guns.

25:25I know every drug dealer in London. Like I just, you can hear the difference from like, I have this prior conversation, then I've gone in the bathroom, then I come out and it's like, whew, off the Richter scale. Because all your dreams are about to come true. Yeah. And so you're going to try and sell it any way you possibly can to get it. What difference does it make? In my mind, I'm like, I can do this role. A hundred percent. So if you want me to just blag that I'm super, super ghetto, I can blag you. So I did. And then they just kept pestering me about getting drugs. Now, obviously, I've said I know every drug dealer in London.

25:57And they keep harassing me. Oh, we need coke. We need coke. And I just kept making excuses. Like every time I was out with them, every time there was a dinner, because I didn't know anybody. They kept asking for it. Yeah. Like, can you get us some coke? And obviously, they're like Hollywood people and like all the fucking... people are up to all sorts. So I wasn't surprised by it. And were you feeling at this time that this is, this is weird. This is strange. This is why? Because half the industry does cocaine. So I didn't, I was just probably one of the only few that didn't. So to me, it was like, yeah, of course they're on gear.

26:27Yeah. So I wasn't surprised at all. I should have thought, why can't they get their own if they've got so many links? Why do you have to keep pestering me? But, um, they just kept pestering and pestering. And I'd said no multiple times. Yeah. Um, and then eventually, they got a telephone number and they called that number and they asked for 800 pounds worth of coke in one call 800 pounds and then basically i was arrested for concern in the selling of 800 pounds worth of cocaine i'll say drugs man what like it's it's it's just mind-blowing it's completely mind-blowing that okay so what was the moment where you suddenly realized that it it was all a sting that it was all entrapment that none of it was real my manager walked in i was sat in the living room playing playstation and my manager walked in and he just had this look of horror in his face and he was like it's all a lie it was all a lie it was all a lie i was like well what's all a lie and he was like it was all a lie and he's showing me the headline like the headlines come out talisa's cocaine shame and everything is in there and the recordings of me saying all this fucking messed up shit you know that i fucking used to sell crack and everyone i know has got guns and i know every drug dealer in london they're just relaying that in the story but not saying why so there's no mention of the entrapment what all the things that they've done they spent four months doing this it's just talisa went and set up 800 pounds worth of cocaine um to be sold and she also said all of this to our person that was recording her so like with no reason why and then i had to stay quiet about that it started when i was 24 finished when i was 26 and i had to stay quiet about the whole thing for that whole like two years of my life just letting the public think that while facing two four years in prison man i can't even imagine yeah you're you're you're 24 at the top of your game you have everything going for you and then because these articles come out and everything stops yeah everything's everything's gone everything so i don't have this movie role and now I haven't thought to keep X Factor because I thought I've got the film.

29:02So that's why I wasn't interested in them. All my branding endorsements, everything's frozen. I just put a half a million quid deposit on a house and I hadn't completed the mortgage yet. So I lost the half a million quid. And then I had a million quid in legal bills to pay. And no future income. Oh my God. Yeah, it's catastrophe. it's like it's beyond it's the eye of the storm to the utmost level yeah utmost level and then as well they did it in such a clever way there's so many technicalities with the way they did this entrapment when it gets to court number one entrapment isn't illegal I thought it was in the UK at the time it's not illegal unless they can prove if they can prove that they have a source that led them to believe that I actually was selling cocaine.

29:58So their theory was I was a drug dealer. I was an X Factor judge slash drug dealer in my spare time. This is their story. And that they had a source that could confirm this to them, which is why they came after me. But they don't have to reveal that source in court because of something called journalistic privileges. So if they couldn't prove they had a source, the whole case would have fallen apart but they don't have to prove they have a source because of journalistic privileges so their word it can be accepted so they're in a loophole right so they're in a loophole then the next loophole is i my whole defense is this woman called nish who kept goading me and bringing me to the toilet telling me to say this stuff but nish doesn't have to appear in court.

30:51She's just a journalist that he hired. And because of journalistic privileges, she doesn't have to turn up. And if she doesn't turn up, I can't speak about her. Therefore, I can't talk about my defense. So they locked me down in the position where I couldn't even say to the jury what had happened. So I couldn't defend myself in court. So it got to the point where my lawyer was saying, you're going to have to shout out what happened. the whole Nish thing to the jury and they're going to hold you in contempt and they're probably going to drag you to a cell. But it's the only way they're going to find out because you're not allowed.

31:26They basically, in the pre-trial, I wasn't allowed to put forward my defence because it involved Nish and Nish didn't have to come to court. Did you shout it out? It didn't get to that point. So what happened is a guy that Mahmood worked with for like 20 years plus. This is the guy who acts as the sheikh? Yeah, so Mahmood is the guy that acts as the sheikh. And his guy that he works with, his name was Alan Smith. He plays the driver. And so he would drive me around to locations, also recording me and listening to me. Now, when they initially approached Alan, the police did. Alan had said that I had had a conversation in the car about being anti-drugs.

32:11That there was someone that I knew that was hooked on drugs, how distraught I was about it, how I was going to try and do everything to get them off of it and that I was going to try and bring them to my house and keep them there and get them clean and that I couldn't have drug dealers anywhere near my house. It was all anti-drugs, anti-drug dealers. And he gave that statement to the police, which is true. This was a conversation I had in the back of the car. Mahmood realized that he'd made this statement and he got him to retract the statement. So then a week later or a couple of weeks later, Alan Smith calls back the police and says, oh, it wasn't her.

32:43I made a mistake. It was her friend next to her that had this conversation. but this is something my lawyers were bringing up in court and in the initial pre-trial they had said to Mahmoud did you tell Mr Alan Smith to change his statement no I didn't tell him to do that um and then Alan Smith stepped forward the week of trial while we're in court and just handed my lawyers the email of him emailing him to change it like a guilt conscience guilty conscience

33:18fucking god and he saved my life otherwise i was going i was going to prison because i couldn't even defend myself i was banged to rights you think you would have ended up in prison yeah because i couldn't even give my defense what's my argument i'm legally not allowed to say what happened it's mad that the the legal system works that way that you can't defend yourself when you have a you have evidence and people there no it's just because of legal loopholes there's no it's about right and wrong it's just legal technicalities and then this man Mahmood he's now he got sent to prison he then got sent to prison what a fool yeah when you're in the court and you're going through that moment you don't know what your future is gonna hold how how scary is that moment do you know what like I do mention a lot in the book is the hope I had this this spiritual sense there were times that I felt hopeless but there were other moments like in the court and I actually still have this note that I wrote I used to doodle when I was in the courtroom and I just I wrote this note that I said good always prevails over evil and literally within I think it was like five minutes of me writing that note is when the case basically fell apart So I have that piece of paper framed in my office.

34:41You're like an ultimate manifesto. Oh my God, I'm so sick of manifesting. That's unreal. Everything I manifest happens is crazy. That is wild. Crazy stuff. But I always had a sense, like I just knew. And I knew he was going to get done in as well. You knew it? Yeah.

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36:38what do you like in a relationship um honestly what do you think the old me um bit of a demon a little bit toxic um i think i i was just very much the kind of person that i didn't like to be vulnerable i didn't like to lose control and i i wanted to be loved i didn't do anything with malicious intent but I probably play a lot of mind games because I wanted to reel someone in and have them in the way that I wanted them and wanted to be the one that was controlling where the emotions were going so I was a little bit toxic but it's something that I become aware of become aware of a lot of things about myself so in the past few years the person I've become I think I'd be an absolute I think I'm a 10 out of 10 partner to be honest got it all covered because you said you were celibate for three years I was okay let's go

37:45all right let's go

37:51that must be a wild ride with that I was no that's in the book I've spoken about that in the prologue in the end I'm not going to lie What was the reason to go celibate? Because you just felt like People think there's some kind of like vow I've made like to God or like to myself I just am very picky Finding someone that I actually like Is very few and far between And then if I do find someone that I like I can feel physical attraction to them I can enjoy their company I can be very flirtatious But I don't think about having sex with them until I start building quite a deep emotional connection.

38:32Got it. And it takes me a long time. And it has to be a certain type of person that I really like to even want to get to that place. Yeah. So it's just very few and far between with me. So it's less about like me going, no, I don't want to have sex with anyone. There's just no one I wanted to have sex with. I just didn't want to. Like there was no point where I was like, yeah, this is right for me. Yeah. And you feel like sex is like a sacred thing. Not a sacred thing. Yeah. But it's important. I think my body is sacred. I think all women are sacred and they should be worshipped a lot more so than they are being treated in today's society.

39:05I agree. I agree. Good man. Imagine if I said I don't agree. Bad idea. Yeah, bad idea. Yeah, because I do think we live in this time, right? It's like with OnlyFans and people. Hookup culture. It's not a, I don't think it's, and I'm a big, I don't watch porn yeah good and I watched porn before yeah I'm sure yeah I did watch porn everyone I admit yeah I watched porn I watched porn but I don't watch porn anymore because I definitely think that it desensitizes us I think that that quick easy fix he did the research and became aware of that quick easy fix that you have the whole time it separates you from the connection 100 % it should be about that sex is energy exchange and that energy is sacred.

39:58And you're also taking on other people's energy when you're sleeping around. You don't realize the things, aside from STDs, the other things you're putting into your body. You know, you're messing with your energy field. The energy has got to be right when you're having that exchange. And it should be about the connection. So, yeah, I'm just a bit of a prude. You're not a prude at all. I think it's the right way to be. Are you with anyone now? Not currently. But you now want to find love? I don't believe in seeking. I think to seek is to be in a state of lack. I think... Explain that to me. Well, if you're saying, oh, I need to find someone, I need to be with someone, I need this, I need a relationship where I can't be happy, you're devaluing yourself.

40:44Like, what is it you're afraid of, of being alone? And I feel like if you just let go, like the universe is going to do what it wants with me anyway. Like, I can't control it. And you believe that, right? Yeah. So do I, I believe that What is meant to be is meant to be And I'm just like, cool, do what you want, mate Man, it's freaking freeing to be that way I know, I'm learning more and more to be like that I definitely wasn't like that I try to control everything Yeah, same, same, so did I But you can't, I had, of course I had a whole plan But that's one thing you can't control You can't control that So have you made peace with everything that's happened to you?

41:17Have you been able to forgive everyone? Yeah, but I'm actually, I've gone through this phase recently Where at first when I came off the trial I was all love and light and literally like I would catch flies to release them out of my house. I wouldn't even squat a fly. It was like that, like Buddhism level. Well, because you were just so... I was so... In a moment of like, I'm going to try and help everything because goodness, goodness, goodness coming to me. Like just complete love and light. Like I was just like super sensitive, super soft, like at my maximum level of empathy for everything and everyone.

41:45That's because you were such a vulnerable place, right? I get, yeah. That you were just so grateful that you're out of the trial, you're past it. Yeah, and I knew pain, so I was so sensitive to other people's pain. Wow. So, and then I actually began having dreams where I'd have a being, so to speak, say to me, like sometimes before I slept, I'd ask like, what am I missing? What do I need to do here? And I kept being told, you need to balance the light with the dark. There's, you're too much on the side of the light where there's room for weakness. You know, you're leaving yourself open. there is darkness in this world and sometimes you need darkness to fight it so you need to balance yourself out.

42:26So how do you balance that? Well, I had to toughen up a bit as well. You can't be too love and light because you're going to have no boundaries and you're going to leave yourself open and be vulnerable. And there's arseholes to fight in the world and who's going to fight the bad guys if you've got no... If you've got no resilience there, if you've got no grit holding on. Exactly. And so now I've come to the point where I'm finally at the balanced period. so I have the total savage that I used to be kind of just parked in this little box you know female boss just kind of stays there until she's 100 necessary and then I pop her back out and I'm like I'm not gonna deal with this one I'll let her come through so I have a tamed beast how how savage were you back in the day I I was just I was very ballsy I wouldn't take crap from anyone I always spoke my mind but I was very fair with it You would just boom Yeah just straight to the point and I have become I need a little bit of that sometimes Have a full read Was it a persona?

43:33Was the female boss a persona? Or was it actually you? Or was it a part of you? It was a part of me that was created as a defence mechanism because I was dealing with constantly so much crap so it was a persona but it became a real part of me because when you're dealing with constant nonsense every day, you have to deal with it. And I had to become that person to deal with that. So then it became a very real part of me. Because there's the icon at the moment on The X Factor where you would come up and you would hold your...

44:06Let's reckon that. That's like my childhood dreams coming true. Are you kidding me? Brilliant. Man. Because it, like... That whole X Factor was just, that's when it was, I mean, 40 million viewers a week or whatever crazy numbers it was. You looked after Little Mix. Do you still speak to the girls? Yeah, I do. I do speak to them here and there. Funny enough, people were like, oh, you know, did you take care of them afterwards? I was like, well, I went through this afterwards. So they were then the ones taking care of me. So I'll be getting, you know, flowers off them. They're always checking in.

44:38They're so good to me. So good to me after. Did Simon Cow ever reach out? Yeah, he did. He brought me back on the show after. So not as a permanent judge, but as a guest. I imagine there are people listening right now, right? Yeah. And perhaps they're in their darkest moment. Yeah. They're probably down and out. They've lost their job. They lost their relationship. Maybe they lost their kids. Maybe they don't know what to do. Maybe you're their inspiration. And they're just like, do you know what? I'm out. Yeah. I'm checking out right now. I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. Like where you were.

45:06What would you say to them? Well, number one, you just need to hold the fuck on. hang on in there I always set myself time frames um when I'm at like my worst points and I just reach that peak of like can't do this anymore I go okay that's how it feels now you've got this this and this happening give yourself to this date and just see how you feel then rather than you know making assumptions about your life and just kind of I just go with it until that point and it always changes by the time it gets to that point really always yeah I set myself these time goals and two of the reasons that I eventually was like I want to get this book out now or three one because I was really passionate about it and I worked super hard on it and for me it was a great little piece of art I also felt like through reading it is the only way you could ever truly know me like anyone that reads that you're gonna know me as a person now and the last one was the inspiration like when you get through it at the end it's and this is me getting through it remember I've had to re-edit this a thousand times imagine me having to read over and over and over my own story and I always start off going oh not again and every single time I've read my own book over like 50 times and by the time I get to the end I'm like I just feel like there's just so much hope in the world there's so much hope and that feeling of hope and inspiration and miracles because i mentioned a lot about you know my spiritualism in there um and i just hope that it it can do that i just hope that everyone that reads it at the end comes out with this feeling of hope and inspiration for whatever they're going through like do you know what if she can get through that and the miracles that have gone on in that situation i can get through this right 100 it must be incredibly cathartic right to see how far you've come and got through it all and been there and like are you here now standing going like right i'm through it i'm accepting crazy like it's a crazy sensation and like that every time i'd finish the read like when i finished the last read and i just sat in my living room and i looked around and i was like wow like how was i there and now i'm here man it's amazing

47:34One of the reasons you're here, right? Yeah. Firstly, because we're buddies. I like to think so. Better reply to my DM, mate. I know, man. Fucking down straight. But the other, probably more important reason is that you've written your book, Judgment. Yes. We've got it here in front of us. Mm-hmm. And reading it,

47:56your life has been very tough. Yeah, it's been interesting. It's been, I mean, it's, insanely like almost like takes your breath away at certain places and it's raw and it's honest and it's beautifully written and it's it's heavy because in the second paragraph as soon as you start reading it you talk about taking or trying to take your own life and you're almost put into the moment of what's going on Yeah. Can you explain to me, like, firstly, why you wanted to start with that, but also what that moment was like and how old you were and where you were?

48:42So it was, obviously, it's 2013, so it's about the year of the trial. And I wanted, initially, when I've written that, I've done it in the timeline of events in 2013. But when I've pieced together the book as more of a work of art, what I want to do is instantly pull people in so I thought let's start with that moment because you know if you open a book you grab someone in the first chapter so if it starts with you know I want to kill myself then you're going to want to find out why so that was I started with that for art purposes man I'm just like yeah well to be fair um that was more of a I call it like a lesser attempt so I speak about two attempts in the book and the first was just I give up I didn't even know what these pills were and like I say in in the book I'm like I don't know if they'd kill me but I'm gonna do it anyway um and they didn't but then it was actually the second time that was when it was all over that was the serious time where I knew exactly what I was doing and how I was gonna do it so when I woke up in the hospital I was like why the hell am I here but you you know how like that like like from like a fan point of view but also like from someone who's spoken to you that is yeah like distressing and upsetting and just every part of my like body wants to say to you like why yeah like don't do that yeah of course well yeah obviously now my head's in that space but at the time um I don't know it's weird because everyone would hear that and go oh my god like that's so intense that's so extreme it was just like I was in this dark place I was super unhappy um I couldn't see any light at the end of the tunnel and I thought even if I push to get there it's going to take me so long I just don't want to spend any more time being here and being miserable and when you when you wake up in the hospital yeah and you realize that you're still alive what feeling do you have then I was fuming I turned around to my friend and said why the fuck am I still here

50:52but you know that passed it's all part of the journey if I was going to go I would have gone so I obviously wasn't meant to go so that for me was the universe's way of going well you ain't going anywhere and I thought to myself alright I get the message I'm meant to be here I'll stick around for whatever you've got in store for me man that's like wild yeah but I haven't ever tried to do anything like that again off the back of trying so hard and failing, I was like, okay, that's my sign. I'll take it. All right, I'll stick it out. Why do you think these people wanted to set you up? Why do they go to all these lengths, spending all this money, going through all this time, putting you on first-class flights, meeting you in hotels, meeting you everywhere to try and get you, try and get a headline, ultimately ruin your life and try and send you to prison?

51:40Yeah. Well, it's something that I deliberate, you know, a lot in the book and I might hint at things, But, you know, a long story short is I think my short time in the larger, more commercial industry, I think I ruffled a few feathers. I think I wouldn't play the game. And I think to some people I ended up as a little bit of a threat and they wanted to take me out because I had maybe given too much power to the wrong person. They didn't want to play the game. It's an extreme way to go. Did you sue? I did

52:21I mean Suing, winning, whatever that is It doesn't even like It doesn't even The damage that it does mentally Physically To the ripple effect The butterfly effect To friends and family To everyone around you Yeah Of course Man I'm so sorry It's okay Honestly I'll tell you honestly Jay So I wouldn't take back a second of any of it. Really? Yeah. Like that year before the sting happened, you know, we were talking about getting to that place in life where you've achieved everything, but you can't fill the void. That is where I was at. I'd got to the biggest position I'd ever wanted to be at. I was living the dream.

53:00I was an expat to charge. I had everything. I was in my massive mansion, mills in the bank. And I was like, I'm gone clear. I'm flying. And I was so depressed and empty inside. the most miserable I had ever been. And my whole life, as I told you, I'd pray, success. Give me success. I want to be successful. And for the first time ever, I stopped praying for success. And that year, I prayed for, my words were, I pray for enlightenment. I want to see things clearly. I want to see the world for what it is. I want to feel things clearly. I wanted to be fulfilled internally. and then the sting happened and I literally said give me my year of enlightenment um and through that I learnt on a very long journey off the back of it but through that I learned inner peace wow and I don't think I ever would have without the start of that that journey and the journey it took me on.

54:07I used to think that the purpose was success, the maximum success and, you know, the outside things and the surface things, the material things. Now I understand that the purpose is becoming my highest self, ascending to the highest version of myself, vibrating on the highest energy, seeing the most clearly I possibly can, being in touch with myself, with others, it's way way deeper my purpose now is is spiritual ascension for myself but that's the purpose and inner peace and happiness that's the mission um and I would never have really got to that place without that experience and every other experience in my life it's quite an accepting thing for me to be like this has to have that has to happen it had to have happened I know it could not I could not have got to this place any other way so you religious I'm so I'm on this like thin line between religion and spiritualism so I believe in some aspects of religion I'm an omniscient I believe in some aspects of all different religions um but I feel like too much of religion has been written by a man and man that may twist words and things for their own ends to divide and conquer i don't believe if there was this higher power he would decide to send individuals to one place and then leave the rest of the world in despair i think it would make sense that there would be you know someone sent down to everywhere what's happening is the men in charge of these stories are just changing the stories to make it separate um i think we're all god's children but i don't believe in god in the sense of how he's necessarily described in the bible yeah i think it is a it's a consciousness in the universe that we're all a part of but when when our loved ones leave us where do you think they go i think they go to i believe even the reincarnation process.

56:18I'm very much into, I'd say to describe my spiritual beliefs, you'd have to read The Emerald Tablets of Thoth, the Atlantean. Sorry? Yeah. Sorry? I've just finished Holes. Do you remember that book? You should have just finished Judgment. No, sorry. I started again. I just finished Judgment. Not on. I've had the other bed. What is that again? It's basically, I mean, Thoth never claimed to be a god, but the people deemed him to be a god. Like the god of wisdom and knowledge. And these emerald tablets were found. It was actually copies, not the actual emerald tablets themselves. And it speaks about basically pretty much the meaning of life, the reincarnation cycle.

57:16uh the different ascension levels that we go through i feel like earth is the school of learning and we send ourselves down here and we sign these soul contracts before we come down we agree to even you know me and you are going to have this podcast at some point and your mom's going to be your mom your dad's gonna be your dad your partner's gonna be your partner and we live out our life with all these experiences that we kind of pre-choose to help us ascend and each lifetime with someone different completely different situations and through continuously repeating that process every time we kind of go back up we remember who we are and we have and go oh my god we have that information and then you go in again oh my god i've just lived that life and so by the end of it you can imagine the kind of wise and ascended being you would be and when you're talking about getting to heaven for me it's about ascension maybe higher realms and to do that you have to repeat through the reincarnation process if i was to bet my life on it like someone said press a button now you have to pick something that is what i choose but i am fully aware that the man who thinks he knows it all is the stupidest man in the world so i also could be completely wrong and i'm completely aware of that as well there could be nothing could be nothing but if i had to lean on something what my heart and my logic and research tells me that would be it the reason I ask is because I'm really sorry I heard your dad Steve passed away a couple weeks ago he did yeah I'm really sorry it's been a crap month it is what is part of the life process and I'll see him again in the next one I think it makes it easier for me to handle death in some situations because of my beliefs also I think my spiritualism has a big effect on all areas of my life.

59:12Were you close to your dad? So we became friends again after a period of not speaking for a while. And then now in my old years, we became close again, which was nice that we got to have that makeup period and get that bond back before we passed away. But it leaves you with a lot of regret because we had a bit of a troubled relationship at time. You think, oh, years wasted. But you made it up. Yeah. And that's beautiful. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I had, yeah, I, it's funny, we get to this age now, we suddenly start to realize that like, maybe you realized way before me, but I'm definitely realizing now, and I've said this before, that like, life is temporary.

59:56Yeah. And I've only started to look around and realize that it is, and it's really precious. Yeah, fleeting. And sometimes I've had, I think sometimes we hold grudges or resentment or we hold anger towards people and actually that only sort of hurts us and there's no point doing that we need to sort of get rid of that and let it go but how do people do that if you have resentment towards someone maybe it's a parent a loved one a sibling i don't know what it is how do you let that go i feel like you can't really let it go until you find peace within here if you're holding so much resentment towards someone you're basically saying i'm reliant on your actions for my happiness I'm relying on your actions and for you to be good to me to validate me so you need to start distinguishing the way you view yourself and the way others view you is not personal it's not about you that's about them so you need to work on how you feel about you great and until you really find that inner peace and self-worth and self-value and self-love internally only then can you look at what other people do and go, well, it doesn't, I know who I am.

1:01:11What makes me so angry is that to get a headline, people are almost willing to let someone die in order for heaven. Yeah, of course, especially about them. I mean, that is... I mean, it's crazy, isn't it? It's more than crazy. It makes me so angry inside that people do that, that they can see people in the public eye. and use them as fodder to try and sell newspapers. Yeah. And I go into it a lot in the book about all the other crazy stuff that was happening. It was more than just the sting. It was like the 24-hour surveillance, another repeated attempted sting out in Dubai. I was at the point where I was literally fearing for my life.

1:01:57And it was quite literally the craziest year I have ever experienced. And then at the same time, I was going through this extremely, like I met someone and ended up falling in love that year. And I had this extremely chaotic love life happening. And when I first started writing the book, I was like, I'm just going to kind of document everything. Because you did, you started documenting everything. Yeah. And I started doing that. And then I met, I call him Jacob in the book. and then I met Jacob and then I started writing about that because I was just writing about my everyday life Like journaling in a way?

1:02:41Yeah, like journaling but then I would go into story tangents where I'm telling it like a story, like a novel but a first person narrative Wow And then I kind of had this crazy chaotic drama slash love story going on when I'm reading back it and I was like, well I'm going to write it in novel form So I stuck to the first person narrative and the storytelling aspect. So when you think, oh, I brought out an autobiography about 2013, it's not an autobiography in that sense. It's actually, if you didn't know who Talisa was, and I gave you this book and you read it, you just think it was a novel. 100%.

1:03:19Unless someone told you it was true. And that is exactly what it is. And that's why people listening right now, you need a go and get this book because it is not only going to delve in so much more to everything else but it does it reads like a novel and it's honest and it's fun and it's exciting and it's dangerous and it's everything it's actually like there's like parts where it feels like a bit of a thriller Helen has written down as also really sexy

1:03:58did you get to read it Helen is like obsessed Helen is honestly you loved it yay that's what we like honestly I promise you Helen is like obsessed yeah no I bloody know it's good I spent 10 years writing it but man isn't that isn't that amazing that like documenting and journaling and keeping all of these things and then getting it together and having this moment to write it 100 % well I wrote it all on I wrote it all during 2013 and then I continued writing so this is where I have a part two I continued writing for the next two years so like the aftermath and then I was left with three novels worth of material so I whittled it down and then split it into two um and then I spent the last 10 years going back and forth editing it again and then every two years I always feel like I kind of evolved as a person and then I'd go back and kind of adapt things, putting in a part of who I am now.

1:04:53And then I was terrified to release it for the past 10 years because I knew there's so much juice in there. There's so much goss. It's just headline central. And that feeling for me was like, oh my God, I don't know. I do not, I can't do it. I can't cope with all the headlines because I'm giving everything in there. It's literally like, and not just everything, but it's done in a way that it's just all the best bits so it's just juice juice juice juice juice all the best moments whether it's the crazy moments the thrilling moments the terrifying moments the sexy moments um back to back it's just like uh um how mad would it be if out of all of this this became a movie and you starred in the movie so because that is my my thing i think it could you know because it's such a crazy story when i'm telling you it's mental but that would be the dream I would love that why do you want to release it now why is this moment is it now you're like this is the time because now I'm over it really yeah and now I'm you know like when I went in the jungle I said I was doing it because I wanted to overcome this fear and I've had this anxiety for so long and it did the trick so it's like I don't mind dealing with press okay you sure you know being in the public and I don't mind those headlines coming out because they were over 10 years ago.

1:06:15Like it's done. Write it. Honestly, like I just want to say like a big thank you. I want people to go and get this book. So when can they get it? Tomorrow. It's out tomorrow. Let's go. The audio book's also available which I narrated. That was an experience narrating the whole book as well. But yeah, it's super juicy. It's super exciting. Like I'm not making this up. I worked my ass off on this book for 10 years. It's bloody good. We'd like to end the conversation with eight questions. Are you ready for quick fire? Okay, go for it. What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

1:06:45You've got to go through it to grow through it. Let's freaking go. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? Oh, oh my God, but it's kind of toxic. Go for it. Oh, no. One of my ex-boyfriends said that I was a human cancer that rots the brain, but it was only because he was like a total F boy and I basically won. I was the kryptonite. So the fact that he said that about me, I was like, yes, I got him.

1:07:18What scares you most about yourself? My dark side. I think if I was in a zombie apocalypse, I would just kill everyone and take over the world. You would get through it. Yeah, you'd get through it. When was the last time you cried? Yesterday. Why? Because of my dark. there's the hardest yeah what's something you can't let go of something I can't let go of maybe nothing cheating yeah you're out of here yeah you get out of here what's your guilty pleasure um I don't think it is a guilty pleasure but like all like reality TV yeah my wife's saying she freaking yeah I'm on like the hundred seasons of Atlanta Real Dogs Wives Whatever Like I honestly It's like It's honestly like I don't know what we're watching Like now they're like I don't know Buying up I don't know what it is Everything I don't feel guilty about it though No I mean I have a wheat intolerance And I still eat pizza Yeah For myself But that's like I'm not really guilty about anything I do That makes me happy That's my business I love that What turns you off?

1:08:37what turns me off in a human anything um what turns me off ignorance ignorance and oversized egos what turns you on um love and light and empathy okay what do you like most about yourself um my ability to care for and advise others that's great and bonus favourite swear word um wank stain she's the other best man I really appreciate it go and get this book everybody you're the best thank you so much

1:09:21woo I'm glad I had my seatbelt on okay good because it was bumpy it was a wild ride there you go what a life what a life what a woman what a woman um lots of things to understand and take from that I mean yeah it's completely wild that so the man who set the whole thing up is now in prison because he lied and was just deceitful but also that thing she said about when she was in court knowing good will prevail yeah that's strength to have that yeah that is mad and she wrote that down wow we really hope you enjoyed the episode as always get in touch with us at greatcompanypodcast on Instagram or greatcompany at jamppodproductions.co.uk everything is in the show description as always and remember if you haven't already subscribed to the show and let us know what you think of it what guests you want us to have on next because we as a community want to know what you guys think okay Jemima we're going to be back next week aren't we?

1:10:15we will be back next week are you ready for it? I am really excited actually next week's another biggie it's huge it's another biggie guys it's another exclusive yeah it actually is we have another exclusive next week guys hold on to your hats all week strap them on strap them on put your seatbelt on hat on goggles as well We'll see you next week for another episode of Great Company.

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1:12:18It's hilarious, awkward, and occasionally kinda hot. Write Me Dirty. Thursdays just got thirstier. Write me dirty.