FRANK WARREN: How a Kid from a Council Estate Became Boxing’s Biggest Promoter

0:00Fighters that you have worked with? Yeah. Tyson Fury, Joe Calzaghi, Prince Seamus. Ricky Hamm. Mike Tyson. What's it like getting punched by Mike Tyson? I didn't know he was going to do it. Well, what happened? Pissed off that I didn't pay$2 million for his jury. Can you imagine me going home to my wife and saying, I just bought Mike Tyson 2 million quid worth of jury, darling. What are your thoughts on Dana White? Who's the biggest diva you've ever dealt with? What makes a good boxing match? Tyson Fury versus AJ. Do you think the fight will ever happen? Hi, I'm Frank Warren and I'm in great company.

0:31The Hall of Fame promoter. Frank Warren! I never thought for one minute I'd be doing what I'm doing. I never thought I'd be promoting Frank Sinatra. Meeting Nelson Mandela, being invited by him to go to his house. Frank, your life is unbelievable! You know, I've been lucky. You signed Ricky Hatton when he was 18 years old. He was a man of people. The fight with Costa Zoo. He was a big underdog from the first bell. He jumps on his arse and he wouldn't give him any room. It's the best fight of his career. So upsetting, you know, what happened with Ricky, right? That sort of mental health side of things.

1:00Why do you think that happens a lot in boxing? I just, I think... You've had moments where you think you're down and out. The shooting and everything fell apart, London Arena. As I got out of the car, I heard a bang. Then I see this guy and he had a mask on and a gun in his hand. Bullet hit me here in the chest and went out the side of my body and into my arm. All I could feel, I'm suddenly feeling this gurgling in my throat. It was where my lungs were filling up with blood. When you come that close to dying, what does that do to you as a person? God, I'm trying to think.

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4:42Guys, welcome back to another episode of Great Company. I'm really so excited for today's episode because it's with Frank Warren. Frank is one of the biggest boxing promoters in the entire world. He looked after Mike Tyson, Tyson Fury, Ricky Hatton, Joe Calzaghe, just to name a few. He's also had an insane life. I don't know if you know this, but he was once shot and nearly died. And we talk about that in this episode today. But before we start, if I can ask one quick favor. I always ask it, but if you can click that subscribe button and join our incredible community. It does so many things for the show.

5:12Basically means we can keep making this show better for you guys. Keep getting better guests and keep delivering week in, week out. If you can do that one thing, thanks so much. Okay, here we go. Enjoy this incredible episode of Great Company with Frank Warren. Frank, I want to kick off with a quick fire boxing question round, right? To just settle this in. Are you ready for this? Yeah. What are your thoughts on Dana White? What are my thoughts on Dana White? Straight in. As a person, I've met him a couple of times. he's okay he's very successful in what he does as regarding boxing take him at his word let's see what he does by the end of the year because he's made he's made some big statements right that he want what he wants to do yeah but we all make big statements you know you can make a statement then you've got to go and do it who's the biggest diva you've ever dealt with fighter wise there was a fighter who's fighting dennis andrews jb williamson his name was and he came over and i put him in a in the sponsors club that they had um who were who were big paper company and cut a long story short after the after the fight they came they said or just before the fight they said to me he keeps demanding things and he said he's demanding a manicurist and I'm like what?

6:21I said to him well let him do it I said whatever it is just give me the bill and I'll take it off his I mean have what he likes you know as long as it doesn't cost us anything yeah so he had that and after the fight Dennis Andrews beat him and he was walking around and no one likes him and he's walking around the dressing room saying to everybody what do you think you know we added our fight and we added our fight and he he came up to Ernie Foster who's down to earth everybody you know everybody's sort of going oh he was alright come up to Ernie he went to him he was fucking useless and he looked at me and he looked at me he said to me what did you think I said your nails look good that was it okay next one for you what's it like getting punched by Mike Tyson apparently happened in 2000 well I've done better than anyone else I got straight out did he actually hit you yeah cold I didn't know he was going to do it cold punch cold punch yeah just cold left left left yeah it's quite a badge of honour that as well isn't it I've done better than the opponent who fought him on the night but you got back up yeah I stand for that did it hurt did it hurt yeah yeah I mean I can't remember I mean what I mean by that is just a boom it come out the blue pissed over pissed off that I didn't pay two million dollars for his jury that he had i mean what can you imagine me going home to my wife and saying i've just bought mike tyson two million quids worth of jury darling you know what you can do that just nonsense just total nonsense and he paid and he settled the bill as well has there been any fighters who didn't think met their potential yeah quite a few really young look talent gets you there hard work takes you there i've seen so many talented talented people waste their talent because they haven't got dedication.

8:07Man, that's a great advice. What makes a good boxing match? An evenly matched fight. Fighters that are well-known to the public at the highest level you want the best fight, they've got to be well-known. It helps if they can both have a good personality. I mean, some really good fighters haven't got such a personality. They're all different characters, but if they've got great personalities, it helps sell it. Like, for example, I mean, you know, you always look at what would have been good fights that didn't happen. I mean, could you imagine if you made Muhammad Ali against Tyson Fury, the press conference you'd have sold tickets for?

8:42It would have been great fun. So that would make a good match. But, you know, we're good at making matches. And also, if you're normally as a promoter, you have your own boxers that you've brought through and promoted. So you're looking to make the right match for them at the right time. Yeah. And the right match is like the most perfect punch. It's all about timing. Really? And wait, just explain that to me naively. Like when do you know it's the right, do you feel it? It's instinct and feel it. And obviously I've been doing this. I've been doing it nearly 50 years now. So I watch fighters and I look to see, we can all see what fighters do, what's good.

9:18I'll look to see what they don't do, what's good. And where's the little chink in the armour? But, you know, if it's the opposition. And also I would get my own guys so that I can speak to the trainer and say, you know, I feel no need to improve on. So who's the greatest showman of all time then? Ellie. Really? Ellie. How good? Beyond anybody. Not just as a boxer, as a person. He was just, he'd light up a room. He walked in this room, it just light up. And don't you ever seen, there's a great film called When We Were Kings. I know the film, I haven't seen it there. You've got to watch it. Anybody listening to this, you want to know what Ellie is, watch When We Were Kings.

9:55It's just a marvellous film. And the music in it is fabulous. It's like, I continue to turn along. And Muhammad Ali, you watch him in it. I mean, old friends of mine passed away now. Hugh McAvary, great, great journalist. And Ken Jones, fabulous journalist. They tell you stories. I know I was young at the time myself, but they tell you stories where you try and interview a fighter now or footballers. You've got to go through all their agents, all the nonsense. And it's very difficult. I remember when I was a kid, if I stood outside the Arsenal trying to get autographs, players would sign them.

10:30Now they weren't leaving kids to do that. And no one gets near anybody. You've got to go through these entourages and so forth. And Mahmoud, he'd do the interview and they'd all get what they want because he was so articulate, so clever, so funny. And then leave and the guys were having drinks and then come back down again. And he's that sort of guy. He was just marvellous. and of course listen you know we as like as like boxing like fans we kind of know how good he was but we don't actually know how good he was because we weren't really i wasn't alive of course but how good was he well i i see him fight and i see him fight in at the arsenal i went with my dad uh i think it was about 60 i think it was 60 was it 66 i think it was 63 but anyway i went to see him and he fought Henry Cooper.

11:21And Henry Cooper was a massive British hero, massive. You know, he was a big hero and it floored him in a previous fight and he fought him and he's doing okay, Henry, but he had a, Henry used to cut badly, had bad cuts above his eyes and he used to bleed like you can't believe. They used to say he used to bleed at press conferences. I mean, that's how bad it was. And he, he, he gave a good account of himself. Then, then Ali just stepped up and done what he had to do. But I met him, I was a kid and you know when you're a kid you're meeting your heroes and but what you remember in those days people didn't like him older generation didn't like him well because he was too outspoken outspoken and they were all you know I mean they liked Joe Louis they liked Rocky Marciano who preceded him they loved all those but because he that's what he was he was brash he was arrogant in what they thought was arrogant you know he'd say things and I mean I thought he was funny and in the ring you know the shuffling and all the showboating and, you know, the older journalists want to see him get knocked out.

12:23It was a bit like when Naz was with me. That generation, some of them journalists I just mentioned, wrote some terrible things about him. And I said, but you're the same journalist who was writing good things about Ali. There's no difference. They're selling themselves. It's how they are. And that's Prince Nassim, right? Yeah. Unbelievable. Naz was great fun. Unbelievable. It was great. But do you know what's so fascinating for me, Frank? is this is like history. These are moments in history that we think about, we read about, we talk about. You were there. You witnessed it. You're part of it.

12:57I was privileged. I was very privileged. I mean, I've gone on a four-floor block of flats just off of Pentville Road. That's where I was in Islington. I never thought for one minute I'd be doing what I'm doing and it just got into it by accident. But I've done it. And over the years, the people I've met not just in boxing but outside of boxing, you know some really unbelievable you know people uh i never expected it to happen i was privileged so you grew up in islington yeah in an apartment in a block of flats council block of flats full floor mom dad mom and dad me mom's mom and dad split up when i was about 12 they had a sort of tough marriage but then they split up yeah do you know something interesting you said you there's a quote which you said which was when i was a kid um i just knew that whatever i did this may sound big-headed i'd be successful i've always had a i mean going back to when i was at school in my days i used to have what i called the 11 plus and i passed that and i went to a grammar school and whatever i left i left school when i was 14 and a half which was nuts and i'm really you know education young is yeah but it's they were it was different times and and you know and because my mom and dad split up i started bunking off school it's all you know because i got away with it because they were whatever was going on with them and you know so i got away with a few things but i was i've always whatever i've done i've been okay at and i've done fairly well i mean when i was young i had i had pubs when i was 23 a couple of nightclubs when pool tables came in now again i was in my early 20s we i got involved in that putting the pool tables and machines into pubs and clubs what was it about it like was it about making money or was it about being successful i don't think i even thought about it it was just i used to just want to have a good time and i liked and if you got if you earned money you had a good time you know that's the truth of the match it makes life a little bit better doesn't it and that's what i did and i went out and worked I worked hard and um and had and had fun I mean I was probably the best customer in in the pubs and the clubs at the time I had I mean I would never have made a boxer I never had the discipline to do that but we you know and my family were quite a tough family from Islington they were quite a you know my uncle he was involved in a famous episode with a guy called Jack Spot they sort of my uncle and um Albert they used to look they had a lot of bookmaking pitches pitches illegal pitches in those days street book making because they never allowed you know no betting shops they still had betting pitches and things and there were you know there was a few bits of up and you know rough and tumble over that my uncle and uh you know he spent a bit of time in prison over it but he was he's the best man i've ever met of anybody i've ever met would they be almost like london gangsters in a way well that's what they were they were called that you know but they weren't you know no drug dealing there's nothing nothing like that it was all down to betting but but the characters in these places were just unbelievable it was the best fun and it's a great education you know growing up in this sort of environment how did that influence you in like a positive way do you think well because you've got remember the environment you grew up you're a product to your environment you know you don't it's only when you get older and you travel and you're lucky enough that you the blinkers are off you see how other people live you mean you have a perception sometimes of what you think the world is and what the people are and where i came from I'm saying, you know, because the family I had, you had to be, you know, you was one of the boys.

16:34You had to be a tough guy there. And I mean, I had my fair little, when I was young, I had a few incidents. But, you know, I just wanted to break out of it. I knew I was going to break out of what I was doing. I knew I was going to do that. And it wasn't by design or anything. It just, I knew it, but it just happened and it happened. And each thing I got involved with just snowballed and snowballed over the years. How did you become a boxing promoter? By accident. Because you promoted your cousin, didn't you? Yeah, what happened was, again, Lenny McLean, he's passed away now, Lenny. He was a very big guy.

17:10He was that size when he was 12. He was one of those naturally big kids, you know. And I never really got on that well with him. I found him a bit of a bully, but he was funny. He had a very funny sense of humour. And we got invited to see him fight. He was fighting at a place over in South London, a nightclub called Sonata, spelt with a C. Sounds classy. And we just went as spectators. So we sat there and we're watching. It was these unlicensed fights as such. They weren't licensed by the Boxing Board of Control. But they were all wearing gloves and everything. Anyway, we go, we go, just watching it, spectators.

17:51And the first, he's fighting a guy called Roy Shaw, who was a bit of a tough guy outside the ring and he'd beaten everybody and he was like the champion of the circuit. And Lenny comes out and he catches him and his legs go and then he doesn't throw another punch. And then Shaw sort of half recovers and then he comes back and Lenny then winds up in the corner, like the ring corner and puts his arms up on the ropes like this and he says, go on then. and this Roy Shaw must hit him about 20, 30 times and he just slides down the ropes or down the corner posts. So I'm like, what the fuck? Anyway, we asked him to go back to the dress room.

18:32I was with my uncle. He walks in my uncle and I said, what's the matter? Are you stupid or something? What did you let somebody do that for? And, you know, I just want to just get out there and go and have a drink somewhere. So that's it, we go. Anyway, about six months later, he said, Lenny's got a rematch with Roy Shaw. And then the week of the show, Lenny's told Bob that if he wins it, he's been told that he won't get out of the place. It's a lot of nonsense stuff. So on the night of the fight, Lenny's calling them in. It's my uncle Bob, me, and Johnny Wall, who's second cousin on the other side of the family, who was a professional fighter, and a very good professional fighter, very good fighter, but was a playboy.

19:18I mean, he didn't give it 100%. So we were his cornermen. So the first bell goes, out comes Lenny, short, and Lenny, boom, does him. Over he goes. And this is on their promotion. Whoever this referee is, he counts up to like, it weren't 10, he must have counted up to 30. And he gets up. He gets up and anyway, bell goes straight to the corner to recover. Anyway, next round comes out. Lenny hits him and he went up in the air and he went through the rope and his feet kept him up, hanging outside the ring. That's how it went over like that. And Lenny's like, because Lenny had a big personality. I'm the boss.

20:02I'm the governor. And we're just, I don't even know what we're even doing there. And that was it. So we come away. Then a couple of weeks later, um, we go to this bloke called, uh, Alex Steen, who had a ticket, what we call them tickets out stand a ticket, whatever they call them these days. And, uh, and he was with a, another fellow called Joe Pyle, Joey Pyle and go up to the office, his office. Then we'll do a rematch. And he says, right, we'll do it. He said, I can't remember. I think it says something. Remember this is in the seventies. He said something that would give you 500 quid or 600 quid, whether it is in them days.

20:42And I looked at him, I said, you know, and I'll leave my uncle to speak. I'm just like there and I'm just listening and I'm not saying a word. And then when he said that, and he said, well, that's what it is. You know, take it. I said to him, he's beating. I said, you know, he said, well, he's beating. He had won the first one. I said, but he's beating. So it's a rubber match now, split down the middle, whatever it takes. No, that's what it is. so I said well he ain't gonna fight him I said we're we're doing our own thing we put a fight I said we'll do it ourselves so we anyway look at me I mean we get up and we walk out and we go outside and Michael said what do you mean we'll do it I said I don't know I don't even know why I said it I was just pissed off with this Joey Pyle so he sort of said to me so he said I said well we'll do it don't worry we'll do it so next week we're booking the Rainbow Theatre which is up in Finsbury Park because we couldn't get you know that was a venue I think it held about two and a half thousand people whatever they got in the cinema and he fought a guy called Sully Francis who was a who was a bloke from Ilford he had a couple these couple of really nice guys who had a couple I think had a car business and a nightclub in Ilford and he was their sort of man so we did the fun we had a side bet in those days because Lenny kept all the money yeah because you know well we weren't promoted we're just we're doing this thing and that's it and we got we had to get the match on got the fight and we had a 25 grand side stake which was a lot of money back then a lot of money what is that like nowadays would you think might be I don't know I don't know what it is maybe 250 300 300 yeah it's a lot of money yeah so we had the bet and and it was held by I remember a newspaper one of the local because that's what we'd done to get press let the newspaper hold it got a bit of mileage out of that we sold the place out and I remember Thames Television as it was in them days.

22:36This is all before your time. ITV were all regions then. It was Thames Television. And they had a program on at 6.30 at night, you know, roundup of what's happening in London. And this bloke, come on, Mike Morris, he was a lovely bloke. And he come on, he said, I was on the phone. He said, this fight, he said, this fight, he said, it's going to be a bloodbath, isn't it? I said, what do you mean a bloodbath? It's going to be a bloodbath. He said, you know, no gloves and whatever. And that is the perception. And that's what everybody's perception was. So I never said anything. I just said, all I know, it's going to be, I said, it's going to be some war.

23:08Because you wanted to make it exciting. I just left it as it was. I'm not saying anything because they had more gloves. On the night, places jammed. About six o 'clock, someone said to me, we haven't got any boxing gloves. I went, what? We had no boxing gloves. So somebody knew a fellow called Ernie Fossett, who'd become a dear, late Ernie, become a dear friend of mine, got in touch with Ernie, rang him, and he came down with this big suitcase full of boxing gloves for the guys to wear. that's how that's how organized it was anyway it was a big success lenny won then we had the rematch with roy shaw and we did the promotion it's it's what's so like um refreshing to hear frank it's like so many of these situations so many things that are built are just like it's fake it till you make it you're just guessing at the beginning yeah yeah i mean it's like what you know i look at some of those guy well guy richie he uh with lenny he dedicated the um Lock, Snock and Smoking, he dedicated the film to him.

24:03Did he? At the start of the film, it said dedicated to Lenny. He obviously never knew him when he was younger, but he dedicated it to Lenny. Because Lenny become an actor. He's done some of them. He was in a few things. Played himself. But yes, and the snatch. It was all that sort of... That was the style of it. That's what it was like. Well, I mean, I watched that and I see where they're coming from. And obviously they did. I mean, you know, and I was a kid. I was, what, 24 then.

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27:08You signed Ricky Hatton when he was 18 years old. Yeah. What made him different to other fighters? He was a man of the people. You know, people loved him. When he signed for me, I met him with his trainer, Billy Graham and his dad. and anyway, we signed him, done the deal and his first fight, I think it's in Witness and he sold three tickets, I think it's three or four tickets, that's what he sold and that was that but he just worked hard at his promotion, Man City connection, went to Man City, you know built up this massive fan base and become and we worked very hard I mean, boxing in Manchester, it was pretty dead, then I got involved up there and started running shows.

27:54And then Ricky, it got bigger and bigger. He was like the heartbeat of it. Yeah. And yeah, he became Nick. And there was a few other young kids on there at the time who were big ticket sellers as well. So we combined all that and it turned into a good situation. And I took him around the country as well. And he just built this massive fan base and it was exciting. But the problem was after a couple of years, after fights, on the Sunday, he'd go and have what he called his bad shirt. A bad shirt, a couple of these pals, old friends of that, down the pub where they'd all put a crappy shirt or whatever that was, you know, a shirt on.

28:29But they get pissed out of their brains. And that is not what you, you know, a fighter can't live that life. And you can't live that life being on the booze and doing things you shouldn't be doing in the profession of being a boxer. You know, say a boxer fights four, a good fighter fights three or four times a year. You've got big gaps in between. And then you're not training. you're not training for a fight you're training to get fit because you you know you remember he's ricky fatten yeah because he's put the weight on 100 and it's a great shame and and and and he you know and it got and it got a bit worse and at one stage you know there was always talking because john um john botra's sister she was one of the founders of the priory so we were gonna we talked about going there and whatever and anyway it didn't happen and he's just got it just got it was a great shame.

29:22And then we got to the fight with Costa Zoo, who was at that time was considerably pound for pound, the best in the world. And we guided him into the, into the positions of fight. And we were working with an American TV company called Showtime. They were, they were in the Costa Zoo business and we all, we had, we had to deal with Showtime and they were showing a lot of British fights, including Ricky's, but I see Ricky as an opponent for him. and I sort of dragged it out a bit and they wanted to take a couple of things they wanted which we didn't want to do so I said look let's make a final eliminator for the title you're in the number one spot and then we're not obligated to do anything we just go straight for a purse bid unless we do a deal which is what we did and we got it in that position What do you mean a purse bid?

30:10What is that? Well if you can't agree terms and a fight is ordered by the governing body or the world body whoever it may be then the promoters have to put a sealed bid in and whoever puts in the highest bid wins the fight so that's what happened and I sat with Ricky and I said to him this is the moment for this guy I'm telling you because they kept asking for it I said now's the moment to do it you sure? and we talked and that was it and we made the fight and he was phenomenal at night it's the best fight of his career he says that it was his best night and he was just brilliant He was unbelievable on the night, and beyond what I expected.

30:51I expected him, I fancied him really to win. He was a big underdog. He was a massive underdog, and he'd done a job. From the first bell, he jumped on his arse, and he wouldn't give him any room. And he just, I think it was about the 11th round, his corner, very good corner man, they pulled him out to fight at Costa Zoo, and Ricky was champion. That was it. You know, Ricky Hatton, what a fighter. and just um so upsetting you know what happened with ricky right and he's dreadful he's still out of his family and everything it was dreadful it's just dreadful and what's interesting about you see this a lot in sport right which is where um that sort of mental health side of things really comes in you know you've seen it with um ricky hatton you Tyson Fury's being very open about it why do you think that happens a lot in boxing i think it happens in all sport i think what happens in boxing though is that it happens for different reasons and people think you're the promoter so you know what they're doing.

31:44You see fighters, if you're a promoter, you might, you'll see them probably when you're negotiating a fight and the week of the, the promote, the press conference and the week of the fight or maybe, and you might go to the gym once because you've got so many shows on. That's the amount you see them. The people they spend their time with is their family and their trainers. Yeah. They're the ones who, you know, are them so they can see what's going on and some, and for some reason, we, we sometimes, the last people we know when a boxer's even injured. Really? You just don't know? Because they think they're going to get over it.

32:14Don't tell me because I'm going to cancel it. Because you're all going to say well, this is too risky, right? I say, don't tell me afterwards. I'm not interested in your excuses afterwards why you lost the fight. Tell me before. We can always postpone it and put it back. The fighters that you have worked with and looked after, I'm just going to run through some of the big names, right? Tyson Fury. Yeah. Joe Calzaghi. Yeah. Mike Tyson. Yeah. Prince Asim, as you said. Yeah. Joe Calzaghi, Ricky Hatton. Joe Calzaghi unbelievable great fighter Calzaghi didn't lose did he never lost a fight never lost a fight I watched the documentary on Calzaghi phenomenal like the way they used to fight was like slapping almost well it was and what happened his dad became his trainer and the fact it was his dad it made him I think he got a lot out of him because that's because family dynamics I think it can be a bad thing it can be a bad thing and it can be a good thing depends you know there's all sorts I mean look at the relationship with Ricky and his dad yeah was pretty become quite toxic at the end and obviously it affected his life and it was a shame but people used to say joe's as a slapper there was a couple of journalists used to say i said yeah he slapped out 28 people or whatever it is you know he slaps hard it could punch yeah but what it was was when enzo used to take him on the pads a lot and when he took him on the pads as joe's throwing his he'd be catching the punches so what happened as he's throwing the punch yeah he's like before he can get it there, it's there.

33:37But the power is, so wedge-hoges, bang, bang, bang. So it'd be bang, bang, bang. And then he's pushing, as he was pushing the pads back, and suddenly he has the big hook or the big punch. So it'd be, boom, boom, boom, boom. So that was a good training technique. Not really. It wasn't. He'd done it despite his dad's, you know what I mean? He did, because his dad wasn't, his dad done well as a trainer, but his dad wasn't, you know, he wasn't an, what I would say, an orthodox type of trainer. No, he wasn't. But his dad got a lot, you know, because of the dynamic of the pair, got a lot out of him because he's doing it for his dad as well as himself.

34:07You know, it's his dad in the corner. It's his dad looking at him. He's, you know, and that's what happened. And Joe was a great fighter. Joe was a great fighter. Do you think that's what separates real champions? Is they are, they're fighting for more than... Yeah, I think they're fighting for themselves. I mean, look, it's the loneliest place in the ring. Once that bell goes, you're on your own. You're there, aren't you? I mean, no one's coming in to help you. You're there. The bell goes. You've got discipline. You know, you're having a fight. You think about what a boxer does. You're in the middle.

34:40You're punching the granny out of each other and suddenly a bell goes and you stop and walk back to the corner. It's crazy, isn't it? So you've got this discipline. You've got this, you know, this training that you've got and the focus you've got to have to be in trouble. And if you're in trouble, like seeing Tyson, when he got knocked down in that fight by Wilder, you know, to go back to that corner and get his, and Usyk and go back to the corner and come back into it. You know, that says a lot about them. Talking of like Fury, right? That moment when he was knocked down by Wilder. Yeah, first fight.

35:18First fight. And Tyson never lost. No. Never lost. And then he was knocked down. You're watching there. You're his promoter. And you see him go down. What are you thinking in that moment? I've got to be honest with you. He was winning the fight. He'd gone down. He got a flash knocked down in the fight. Then it was the last round. And the one thing Wilder is, is a tremendous, tremendous punch. Big punch. Statistically, the hardest punch in heavyweight in the last 40, 50 years. Before the fight, the referee goes to each of the boxers dressing room. And he says to them, if you get knocked down, I'm going to get you to stand up.

35:54I'm going to look in your eyes and I may tell you to take a step to the right or to the left, and then I'll tell you whether I'm going to stop the fight or not if you get up. Got it. So he gets knocked down. Tyson's lying there, like arms out, and all Wilders people are to this side of us. We're here, our team. They're there. He's manager, Shelley Fink. And they're all up running to the ring. Everybody in the whole place thinks it's over. and I think it gets to about six or seven and then suddenly Tyson gets up it's like is it Robocop or one of those guys you know which goes down The Terminator Yeah Terminator so he's up and the referee looks at him and he and he box on and Tyson comes and I remember Wilder when he knocks him down he's got cut and he's thrown goes back to the corner he's doing all that and then as he got up I see Wilder's face Wilder's sort of like his jaw's dropped and Tyson gets up And he gets back into the fight.

36:54And by the end of the round, he's on top. And they gave it a draw. I mean, Tyson won it all day long. And they're all, you know, his brothers, real nice. Shane and Yui are screaming. I said, you're not going to change the decision. Stop it. Let's all just be nice and calm. And they get a rematch. Just it is what it is. You can't change it. It's nonsense. It doesn't matter what you do. Whatever you say is not going to change anything. And that was it. Just go with it. And then I said to Tyson after, I said, I can't believe it. how you've done that. He said, Frank, he said, I couldn't feel my legs.

37:25He said, I was all right. He said, but if I got up, I'd have gone all over the place because I couldn't feel my legs. So he had the presence of mind to lie there so he could feel his legs and then get up. And that's what he did. Unbelievable. That's what he did.

37:40Frank, I've got to ask you about Tyson Fury versus AJ. Yeah. Do you think the fight will ever happen? Yeah, providing they both win their next two fights. Sorry, the next fights they've got each, 100 % Can I ask I saw some news Yeah Is Tyson Fury still with you? Yeah We've got a We've got a relationship And we've got We've worked very well I mean His fights He's had How many fights He's had Three fights On the Riyadh season Yeah No four fights Four fights Four fights now On the Riyadh season And That's And that That with Turkey Al-Sheikh His Excellency he's the one who's been putting the money up for those fights.

38:23I mean, we've ran those fights, run the shows as promoters, but that's who's put the money up. And my relationship with Tyson is perfect. I'm happy with it. And it's worked. That's a big fight. That's going to be like a massive fight. Maybe two personal questions. What is the in terms of money, what's the biggest fight you've ever put on? God, I'm trying to think. The biggest grossing fight at Wembley and the biggest event that's ever taken place at Wembley was, was Tyson V. Dillian White. We broke all the box office records for any event, single day event, any event, any event at all, music event, any event.

39:07It still holds the record. What did it gross? It was a massive gross on the gate. It was like, I'm not sure, something like 17, 20 mil on the gate. I'm not sure, but it was a massive event massive massive event because you're seeing these rumors right you know with like this whole like influencer boxing and Jake Paul and all these I can't stand all that shit you're not a fan it's not boxing they're not professional but look I like I say if somebody's going to go in a gym and the two guys are going to fight each other it's not like listen I've done it I've been both sides of the fence these guys wouldn't have lasted five minutes back when I was doing this stuff no way I'm telling you would not last if I but they go and do their best.

39:51They go and train. And anybody who gets in the ring, you've got to respect them for that. It's a brave thing to do. So they want to go and do it. But that's not boxing. That's not boxing. I mean, all of it, the whole thing. I'm looking at people on there, running at people and rugby diving. I'm in the corner. Do you think it's a disrespect to the sport? I think anybody who thinks it's boxing is a disrespect to the sport. It's like anybody can be a, you can start your own tv thing can't you just have a phone and go up and someone asks you questions it's what it happens now doesn't it there's no there's no journalistic background or learning a trade there isn't there's nothing and it's just and with the boxing which is a dangerous sport when what else i worry about is that the influencers or whatever they call them all the different people whoever they are they have a following and these people think this is boxing i know i mean you look at that and then look at you know the show the week before which is on there and the fight's running like you or look at it's chalk and cheese it's not even it doesn't even get the chalk but good luck to them but I don't blame them they can earn the limits their life and people want to pay for it god bless them that's their thing but for me don't call it these guys just don't it's not I had just going back to that money's because it's just interesting about how much money these guys are making right when Anthony Joshua fought Jake Paul on Netflix yeah Fanny Joshua's paid something about around 80 million.

41:21Does that sound about right? I don't think he got that much. I think he got less than that. But any, look, to fight Jake, Jake's a lovely fellow by the way, great promoter. Yeah. Great promoter. He knows how to do it. He knows how to do it. And he does, and he's got a license and he has trained there. He is, you know, he has a professional boxer, but he's fighting a guy who's a two-time world champion. Crazy. That's what happened. He got in the ring and he done fair, I think he'd done well till the stoppage. He was doing okay for himself. you know they both got a lot of money they both got well paid and and uh you know aj in america doesn't he's not as big as jake paul is in america yeah he was like he was there the big attraction over obviously over here we you know we we all know frank and it's a great sorry we know aj and it's smart isn't it because there's a promoter you see it frank because you're like okay you've got this person who everyone wants to see get knocked out and then you've got this big sort of heavyweight who we all love who'd come off of a big loss so you're like against our guy, Daniel Dubois.

42:15Yeah, so it's a smart move. Queensbury and Matrim again. Can we just talk about it? Because I know we don't have too much long left. You know, the Hearns and the Warrens, it's like a family rivalry there. No, Barry reinvents history. He talks about, I see a thing he talks about, or someone told me in his book about how he tried to buy my business back in the 70s. That's absolute bollocks. I never even knew him. I never met Barry Hearn until I was introduced to him by ITV because he'd just got early days of snooker. And I got introduced to him and they asked me if I'd get involved in the snooker, which I did.

42:52That's the first time I met him. And then you became business partners, right? We became us, IMG, and him. We did this breakaway snooker tournament. And I come out of it fairly quickly. It wasn't what I expected. It wasn't what I was told it was. you guys had this it was your company versus the Hearns company and you had this sort of boxing box off well what happened oh that yeah that happened later that was with with Eddie yeah and it was unbelievable and you it was your best fighters versus their best fighters they picked their five and we picked our five and what was the score in the end it was five fights and the captain if the captain won then you get double points and we won 10-0 did that feel good it was I've got to be honest it did no it was it was good fun we had a bit of luck and you know when he took it well and I quite you know I sort of because I never knew him and I only sort of listened to some of the stuff and people what they sell you but I found it to be alright I found it to be okay and I found it to be you know we had a couple of drinks and whatever so it was good fun

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45:49How do you stay so grounded in a world which is not grounded? And it's all about showboating. And it's all about kind of beating the next person and staying relevant. How do you stay grounded? I was just talking to Ellie, who's with me today. We were just talking about how, I don't know how to mention who it is, but how he's changed so much and how people change. Can I make a guess? You can make a guess, but you won't get any response. I reckon it's Tyson Fury.

46:18No, it's people, but anyway. Oh, it's people, okay. All right. Eddie Hearn.

46:27Well, I think Eddie has changed. I mean, other than know Eddie, I only met him a couple of years ago. Really? I never know his dad. I was partners with his dad for a short period of time. But, you know, Eddie, I never met him. When I did meet him, my son done the introductions. George, who's the CEO of our business, he done the introductions. And it was, you know, it was that. And then we had, because of what we were doing in Saudi, we wound up with this Queensbury v. Matchroom show. I'm doing it. I know you're going to get to the result of that. I can't. Yeah. I think you were quite happy with the result, weren't you?

47:05Yeah. Smacked his ass. We're going to get into it. But how do you think you stay grounded? How do you do that? I think you've got to just be yourself, you know. Yeah, but that's hard because you lose yourself sometimes, right? No, I don't. I mean, I don't. I think you've got to just, it's an old expression, just keep it real. well you know i'm not impress anybody you know as long as i'm i'm comfortable myself i think people who do all that sort of things all those sort of things have that i don't think they're comfortable with themselves and they obviously have to put some sort of aura around or whatever it may be what they are shout like who shouts loudest all that rubbish it's what i haven't got no time for that the fights and all the shouting out you know do your talking in the ring let's see what you do when you get in the ring.

47:51And sometimes it's like that in life. And just be yourself. That's really great. I think the biggest problem we have is that the majority of us aren't quite comfortable in ourselves. We don't know ourselves. We feel like we have to get that validation by doing something big, brash, whatever it is. And telling everybody about it. A hundred percent. But it's quite hard to be comfortable with yourself. So have you always been comfortable with yourself? I've always stood up for myself. So I'm okay with myself. And if I can't, and I don't think, you know, from being a young fellow, you know, I would never back down from anything, never have backed down.

48:27And even as I've got older, and I'm talking about some cases physical and physical when I got older with a couple of people. But I always stood my ground. I'll stand my ground. And I always will stand my ground because that's how it is. You know, and if I've got a point of view that I believe in, then I'll stand my ground with my point of view and argue the point with somebody. you know you're either I'm either going to they're either going to we're either going to compromise or not whatever it may be but you know at the end of the day and they may may change what I'm thinking and if they do then they've proved you know they've convinced me and that's what you've got to do have an open mind so Frank have you have you been in a fight before yeah I had some fights when I was younger not in the ring outside the ring no I've never had a fight in the ring I told you I never had the discipline to do that my cousins a couple of cousins who fought.

49:20So you've had a fight on the street? Yeah, I've had a fight on the street. Did you win? I always come through.

49:31I remember when I was a kid, come out of a place in Liverpool Road. It was a pub, and in those days, it was a disco on top of a pub. I was only a kid. I was about 15, 16. We'd come down the stairs, and there was a couple of older guys, and I was standing there in this thing, and I remember this car pulled up and the back door opened. You know when you know when something's going to happen? Yeah. And he got shot and I was standing next to him. What the bleep? And there was that and there was that little fracas going on and his car just pulled up. They must have been waiting for him to come out and bang him.

49:59It went up in the air. Did he survive? Yeah, he lost a few of his fingers and whatever and whatever. You also got shot. Can you tell me what happened there? Yeah, I had a shot. At the time, And I'd had a, with my partner, John Bottres, who was at the time of Slytherin, he's a barrister now. And we built London Arena, which is a 12 ,500 seat arena in Docklands on the Isle of Dogs. And I had a show on, only a small show in Barking. And I wanted to go and see the fight. So I said, come on, let's jump in the car. And we went and we got there. And my chauffeur at the time, driver, he got lost. Anyway, eventually, as he pulled in, and as I got out of the car, I heard a bang, and I thought it was a car backfiring.

50:51I looked around and looked the other way, and then I see this guy, and he had a mask on and a gun in his hand. And I thought it was a joke, to be quite honest. And he's standing, but he's probably about 12 foot away, not close to me, about 12 foot away. And I thought, what's that? And then I heard a click and then there was another bang. And what happened? I turned myself, so a bullet hit me here in the chest and went out the side of my body and into my arm. And John, I mean, he's at Oxford. He went to Trinity College, Oxford. He's a top scholar there, brave guy. He just jumped on him. It was too far because I was too far away.

51:38after the click I think if it had been nearer I would have obviously had no choice to try and do something but I was too far anyway so now all I can feel I'm suddenly feeling this gurgling in my throat and it was where my lungs were filling up with blood because it went through my lung and I remember the time I remember sort of you know going down on one knee and a cab driver pulled up and he looked and he said and it was a bopsic who his name was Gary Davison who I promote he went you alright Frank? I was here I've been better yeah I'm feeling marvellous and then anyway I went over and what happened they went and got the dots because we have dots at the fight so they went and got them one of the dots came out and he said to me have you got a handkerchief and I'm like lying there I'm trying to breathe and I've got a handkerchief he said hold that on you so I'm holding this I'm lying in black and I've got this bullet in my chest going through me and they said the ambulance was on strike back then so they put me in the back of an old police black well not black you know police fan and Bundle lifted me up put me in the thing and I feel I'm starting to get dizzy now and then then we and he had to do a I always remember it was a three point circle I feel him he was banging up the table and I'm going oh and eventually They had to take me to a hospital that can deal with that sort of thing.

53:11And the nearest place was appropriately, the hospital appropriately named in Shooters Hill. So that's where I wound up. So in there, when I got my wife, Susan, this is what I'm being told afterwards. And they told her, it's like 50-50, wherever I'll make it through the night and all that stuff. And so she had a lot of concern. She was pregnant. And I remember the next day I woke up in the hospital. I always remember, as I was going to the, they're taking me to the theater. my uncle now is there he's there and me dad and you're lying flat and you're seeing all the lights you know the fluorescent lights it was like a you know like a strobe effect if you know what i mean okay and they said right and they said and i just said to my house said don't let them knock me out and i felt if if i was knocked out i did oh that's i thought am i going because i feel like i can feel that i'm trying to resist it but i well anyway cut a long story short i had to do that and i woke up the next day with like drains in my lungs and where they done took the bullet out and everything and sorry done all the repair work and everything and that was it when you come that close to dying what does that do to you as a person i didn't think about even then you know i didn't think you know when it went afterwards there's a lot of negative stuff in the newspapers about why it happened i sued about my suit i think about five newspapers which they all had to settle with me um because it was just ridiculous the things that were being said and whatever all quotes without anyone's names.

54:39What were they saying? That the gun had been used in a previous shooting, which it hadn't, and it was a gang that had done it. It was just a load of nonsense. There's lots of stuff, but anyway, I'm front page on a couple of them, and the apologies like that end up, it's like a couple of paragraphs in the papers. But again, I wouldn't stand for it, And I got a bit of a, I suppose then, a bit of a reputation for anything. Anything you're not going to stand for it? I wouldn't stand for it yet. Did you find out why did the shooting happen? It was a lunatic. It was a lunatic. At the time, I didn't know, but I found out very quickly.

55:22I didn't know before the trial. I found out after the trial who it was, and that was it. You know, you've been married for 40 years. Is that right? I got married in 83, so it's 43 years. I've been with Susan for 47 years. What's the secret to a happy marriage? Well, we've had our ups and downs, I suppose everybody, but the secret to a happy marriage is letting her get her own way. She'll be happy then. That's it. Because, you know, Susan had to deal with that when you were shot. She was pregnant at the time of the shooting. That's pretty tough on... Well, it was dreadful. I mean, and, you know, afterwards, you know, that's what I remember.

56:02We was at the hospital and I remember I sort of come round and she was at the bedside and whatever. And it was awful. It was an awful time for her. And my uncle and my dad, they wanted to go and bloody sort it out. And I said, leave it. I said, I don't want anybody doing anything. You know, let it all take its course and get worked out. And it did. Who was the biggest influence you were growing up when you were growing up? My Uncle Bob. Really? Yeah. Very, very straight man. Well, I mean straight man, very straightforward. To the point. Yeah, to the point. Massive principles. You know, principles very well liked and respected.

56:45I mean, you know, amongst his friends and people, very, very well respected. And massive, you know, when he passed away, it was a massive, massive turnout, massive funeral. Because he was so well loved and liked and a loyal man and not a liberty taker. never liked to see any liberties taken whatsoever. And, you know, very respectful and taught, you know, for me, taught me a lot about, you know, respect and listening to other people's opinions, not, you know, being like how some people, certainly words from the world, I'll grow up, you know, forget about him. He's, you know, he's got no style. He's got no, you know, he's not a decent person.

57:21When someone that influential in your life passes away, that hits you quite hard, I imagine, right? Yeah, it does. you miss them because you miss the, you know, it used to be the funk, especially, you know, when I was younger, I'd see him all the time. As you get older, you're traveling, you know, and his phone calls and I'll miss them. The catch-ups and popping up and seeing him. He was a lovely man. Yeah, it's interesting. I always think about this now for some reason. I don't know why, but like when you're younger, you feel like life is not temporary. You feel like it goes on forever. It goes like that.

57:54I know, doesn't it? It just flies by. I mean, I look around and I just think, you know, this one's gone, that one's gone. And, you know, I'm older, so I can, you know, people have, all the old ones, all my uncles, aunts, all of them are gone now. Every one of them, you know, and they've had good lives and all that. But it's just what happens and it flies by and suddenly I've, I mean, I've got 12 grandchildren. So you, it's just, and they're, I mean, I love it. I love it. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. It's just great. Do you know what, Frank? I have this, someone told me this amazing quote, right? Well, it's not even a quote.

58:28It's just a way to look at life. And I was talking to them. I was like, how do you like judge success? And he said, very simple. If your table gets longer, you're successful. And it's such a great way to look at it. If your table gets longer, family, colleagues, friends, whoever it is, that's it. That's it. And happiness. 100%. And that's it. You know, I've seen so many miserable kids, you know, in my life who've got money and that and don't enjoy stuff. I still got my friends from Islington. we still meet up and have our lunch. Do you really? Yeah. What, every month or what? Yeah, every month, six weeks.

59:02And we're out and we sit down and we're all equals. They're all different, come from different backgrounds. A couple of them were cab drivers, a couple of them a little bit, you know, the boys. But they're all, you know, and I enjoy it. They were, that we grew up. It's just, like, Frank, it's a real honour to sit with you. It's an honour to sit with you. No, it's really not for you, but it is for me, I promise you. Because it's just like I said before, you... You have so much of this history and just seeing all these different things and talking about these people that we all love and wish we had known and wish we had seen, and you've sort of seen it all.

59:35It's kind of amazing. Yeah, I've been blessed. I said earlier, I met people I never thought. I mean, I never thought I'd be promoting Frank Sinatra. I promoted Frank Sinatra. I never thought I'd be meeting Nelson Mandela, being invited by him to go to his house, fly over to his house to meet him. I mean, you know, I've been lucky. I've been really blessed. What is that moment that you've had in your life that it was a real pinch me moment? You're like, wow, this is actually happening. I think Nelson Mandela, who I think is the most impressive person I ever met. Without a doubt. Yeah. How many years in prison?

1:00:0618 years, wasn't it in prison? Yeah. And I think the guy who was his prison guard was head of his security. Can you imagine how he got married? It was just an amazing man. I made Nigel Benn against Sugar Boy Malinga for the world title. and sugar boy malinga beat nigel ben and on the following monday i get my office gets a call said it's nelson mandel's office and would i go and meet him in joeberg and i thought it was a joke someone's taking a piss and cut a little story short the next day i'm in in his house in joannesburg and he's this he had big feet he was a big quite tall guy and he was so gentle and he had this aura around him really calmness night you know like of niceness yeah i know what you mean and And it was, I really, really, I couldn't believe it.

1:00:52And I was talking to him and he said to me, I want to thank you for all you've done for South African boxing, for Sugar Boy Malinga. I said, I've got to be honest with you, Nelson. I wanted Nigel to win. I didn't want you to win. And he just laughed and we had some photos done and I went home and I thought, bloody hell, what was that all about? It was just marvellous. Isn't that amazing? Big boxing fan he was. Really? Talked about it all the time. And he'd done some paintings of when he was on the island, you know the prison island he was only done some paintings and they did a limited edition first print and i and people i knew the people in the gallery and i and they said would i buy do i want the first first limited and i said yes i said but i want him to inscribe each one with a i'm going to get a quote out of his book for each of the things that he said and he hand wrote them to me and put them on there so i was thrilled with that do you know one of the greatest quotes i'm sure it's nelson mandela which is drinking poison uh seeking revenge is like drinking poison when the other person to die great oh isn't that great let it go great man look what he did do you do you hold on to uh do you let things go i never used to if i as i said if i'd never i would be i can't let it happen um i'm a big believer in karma now 100 in two ways be calm and it will happen because the world keeps spinning around somebody does a bad turn i don't care who it is they always get found out at the end always and i imagine like frank like with all your success you've had moments as well because i think it's like interesting though because i think in life we see the end product right you watch you say in bolt do the hundred meters and you just think oh he's just he's quick he's done that you see david beckham score the free kick you don't see sacrifices you don't see the sacrifice you've had moments where you think you're down and out haven't you yeah i mean the shooting and everything fell apart london arena everything i was flying at the time i was really, I mean, the arena, we had a value on it then with the banks that we were selling it to for nearly 80 million, which was a fortune back then.

1:02:47And we wound up with zilch. But you had to keep working, keep working, you know, live to fight another day. That's what you have to do. Keep doing it. You never give up. Keep going. Keep going. I had no choice because I've got family. And what am I going to do? Don't want to feel sorry for myself. Get out there and do it. It's better than living on a full floor of Priory Green. Your proudest moment. What is it? Um, my kids. I'm proud of them all. And when I look at them, they, you know, they fill me with pride. I've just had a baby. Oh yeah? Congratulations. Wow. My wife has. We helped. I helped a little bit.

1:03:24It might have been. Were you a boy or a girl? Boy. Lovely. What's his name? Ziggy. That's a good name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, and you know what, Frank, it's, it's, your whole, my whole mentality has changed. Of course it has. It's like, you know, from appetite for risk in terms of my own physical risk like I won't take as many risks anymore and you want to get home to see that it's just amazing everything changes there's nothing better than you know it's being them grow up and it happens and as I mentioned earlier everything goes like this does it really watching them grow up they grow up and seeing them develop and looking at their the good things they do you look at some of the things and they're always you've always got a problem with kids don't matter how old they are they're your kids and that's what it is but that's that's life you know we all go on our journeys and you just got you got to try and help and guide them and look after them so what advice would you give me for being a good parent give time i i you know when i when i look back that's one of the things i regret because i was so focused on being successful you know when i mean by successful is as making sure things worked and you've got to give you know you've got to spend so much time yeah and that was it and i traveled a lot because the shows were all over the place.

1:04:36And that's one of the things I didn't spend as much time. Yes, give as much time. I think, you know, I look at my sons, my daughter, especially my sons because they're a couple of them working the business. And I look at the time they give their kids and how good they are with their kids. They get the balance right. Really? You know, be there. You know, I'm not saying I work there. I mean, there's better as much as I could be there for work, but, you know, just be there and support them. And, you know, we've got a good family. our kids Eric's quite a tight family and I think the most important thing is showing love that's what it's all about 100 % kids want to be loved couldn't agree more Frank listen thank you so much I appreciate everything we end the conversation with 8 quick 5 questions you ready?

1:05:15go on here we go what's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? good morning yeah come on means I'm here there we go Frank listen also not that you're you're a little bit older than me you look incredibly fit I'm 74 let's go Old geezer. Ancient. You look incredibly fit. Just going to leave it there. All right, here we go. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? You look fit. What scares you most about yourself? That I don't look fit. You might like it. When was the last time you cried? Blimey, when was that? I think when my granddaughter, the other, when was that, a little while ago?

1:05:58She made me laugh so much. It was very touchy. that's beautiful I love that that's amazing what's your guilty pleasure? I love my wine I love going out dining wine with good friends that's my guilty pleasure yeah that's the best that's my thing what's something you can't let go of? life perfect answer what turns you off? arseholes what turns you on? nice people I thought you were going to say assholes nice assholes

1:06:37what do you like most about yourself I don't even think about that that's a difficult one what I don't like about myself I like wine there you go Frank Warren thank you so much you are a fantastic company I really appreciate it unbelievable that is fantastic take a hand

1:06:59I, I, I, I, I, I. Do I, I, I.

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