GARETH GATES: I Was Beaten Up For My Stammer. Pop Idol Saved Me

0:00I became the boy that wasn't able to speak but could sing. I have a stammer, you know, so I'm finding it hard. My name is... You'll find it in the strangest places. Having a stammer is hard. It was hell. At school, I was badly bullied. Like, lads would hold me down in the playground and say, let's beat the words out of him, you know. It was a very lonely place. You started singing. What did that do for you? I could finally get out of me what was in me and I could express myself through music and that changed my life. Hey, I'm Gareth Gates and I'm in great company. It's the Gareth Gates, ladies and gentlemen.

0:40You'd sold 3.5 million records worldwide by the time you were 18 years old. Simon Cowell was right. I saw pound signs in his eyes when I couldn't speak. Katie Price claimed in one of her books that she took your virginity. That was tough. It just kind of made me extremely wary of people in the industry. This literally all happened before I was 18. If you actually find it hard to talk, as it is, you never talk. That's a problem of mine. I don't talk much. I don't air what's in my mind. You can't help but feel like it's a defect. You don't still believe that, do you?

1:30Hello, I'm John Robbins, and I'm here to tell you about a brand new series of my podcast, How Do You Cope? Each week, I'm joined by remarkable guests as I ask one simple question, how do you cope? I'll be speaking to the likes of Richard Osman. If someone is opening up to you, please accept that to them it is unbelievably real. Comedian Alison Spittel. I can't eat my feelings anymore, but now I have to feel my feelings, but I don't know how to identify those feelings because I've repressed them for so long. And former communications director to Donald Trump, Anthony Scaramucci. Every one of those shows that made fun of me, I went on the show.

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2:51Hey guys, welcome back to Great Company. Now, I am beyond excited for today's guest on the show because it's full of everything. It's got nostalgia. It's got heartache. It's got love. And he's probably one of the kindest people I've ever had the pleasure of interviewing. It's Mr. Gareth Gates. Now, if you watch Pop Idol back in the day, you'll know exactly who Gareth Gates is. Because when I was 13, 12 years old and I was watching the final of Pop Idol, Gareth Gates was the person in the final. What I didn't know that I know now is that he has struggled throughout his life with a speech impediment.

3:27And the only time that he doesn't really stutter or stammer is when he is singing. So we hear about a story. We hear about what it was like growing up, feeling different, feeling like an outsider, doing Pop Idol and life since then. Also, within our show today, we have Chris, who's also going to join the show. He's a speech therapist. Now, Gareth feels much more comfortable when Chris is in the room. We have a camera on him and a mic on him. so when you see and hear Chris you'll know exactly who he is. He himself also has a speech impediment and it's incredible to see this relationship between the two of them.

3:59Now before we start the show I would just like to ask you one thing like I always do if you could please subscribe to our show and join the amazing community of followers and subscribers that are already with us. It keeps allowing us to make a better show, keeps delivering on the guests that you want and keep making the show bigger and better every single day. If you do that one thing for us thank you so much. Enjoy this beautiful episode of Great Company with Gareth Gates. Gareth, firstly, I said to you before, I'm so excited for this. As am I, mate. We also have Chris in the room. And perhaps rather than me explaining who Chris is, who's Chris?

4:35Chris is my speech coach. We both share the affliction of stammering. And we're on the same a speech therapy program. And so every time I have an interview like this, whether it be on a live television program or radio or a podcast like this, I have him around. He isn't a sort of trained speech therapist. He's more of a mentor. We share the same affliction and he will throw things at me if I don't speak properly. So I'll be dodging them all the way through. And Chris, you're on mic, so you can say something, can't you, Chris? I can say anything he wants. I can abuse. What is your relationship like with Chris, just so I understand that a little bit more?

5:25Because I met Chris and Chris explained to me that he also has a stammer. Yeah. Having a stammer is hard. It's an affliction I've suffered with my whole life as a kid. It was hell at school. It was traumatic. Answering a register was, you know, something that I feared every single day. Reading aloud in class was hard work. I actually once peed myself in class because I couldn't ask the teacher to go to the toilet and that you know can can you imagine that as a as a child that mortifying and so it's it was very lonely place as a kid I didn't know anybody else who had a stammer and you know I felt like I was the only person going through this.

6:19And then some 10 years after that, I found a program called the Maguire Program. And it's filled with people who stammer, basically. And it's run by people who share that same affliction. So we're all in it together. And yeah, ever since then, I've been using this new way of speaking, brand new way of breathing, and more importantly, a new way of tackling the mindsets that come with having a stammer, which is avoidance. I used to avoid situations like this at what costs. You know, anytime I was asked to do an interview on TV, I'd say, no, buddy, it's funny. It wasn't until you start to say yes and push yourself into those fearful situations that things began to change and that fear begins to kind of melt away a little bit.

7:10Do you know that they always say that exposure is the best form of therapy? Yeah. And we don't do that because if you have a fear of spiders, you don't go near spiders. Right? Fear of water, you don't go near water. Fear of speaking, you don't want to speak, right? But you have to almost approach those places and force yourself into them to kind of get over them. Yeah. I mean, Pop Idol, you know, 24 years ago, I didn't want to do Pop Idol. My mum saw an advert in the local newspaper saying, are you the next Robbie Williams? Are you the next Kylie Minogue? Are you the next idol? And I kind of viewed an idol as the image of perfection, a person you aspire to be.

7:53And I just wasn't that. I wasn't perfect at all. In fact, I was defected. I couldn't speak. And I didn't want to enter that competition at all. But with a bit of gentle persuasion from my mom I did and you're you're absolutely right it wasn't until I forced myself to do those interviews and those you know live things on tv that I began you know to sort of get a grip of it it was it was awful and it was hell at the time because you don't want to be exposed as being different or um you know having this problem uh but you know you're you're absolutely right it wasn't until I faced that that I began to get a bit of a hold on it can I be honest with you guys I find it so hard that you say it's like defected you don't you don't still believe that do you um I it's it's tough when you go through the things that I went through as a kid you know I was badly bullied like lads would hold me down in the in the playground and say let's beat the words out of him you know that that that pain and that hurt and that trauma um still stays with me now and it's like you you can't help but feel like it's a defect I I fully embrace it now because you know it's it's part of me and I've and I've learned that being different isn't such a bad thing but when you've been through that hell then it's it's hard to not um you know have a have a negative association with it i guess gareth i didn't want to interrupt you in mid-flow but that's not a hundred percent okay cool you can speak much better than that okay cool why does it make you feel more comfortable with Chris around?

9:51Believe me, without Chris here, my speech wouldn't be nearly as fluent or as eloquent as what it is. I wasn't happy with that either. Come on, get it right. As fluent or as eloquent as what it is now. And just having him here, pulling me up like he just did is exactly what I need because I often start off strong in these chats. But then everything kind of spirals because I talk too fast and then I start to stumble over my words. Can you explain this to me? And also with Chris as well, you can, and I want to tread carefully here. The way, Chris, you sort of talk to Gareth would be, it's almost like a sort of command in a way.

10:35And is that how the relationship has to happen in order to you feel calmer? Yeah, it's not immediately obvious, but I'm a little bit older than Gareth. I think that gives me a little bit of an advantage to be slightly authoritarian. That's not in my nature. But for me, the symbiosis of it is based on that, that I feel we're on the same program. We know how to use the same techniques, which I just did then. And I think that's how it works. For me, that's the only way I can do it. Wow. And talk me through the breathing technique, Gareth, because I can see that when you're doing it, you're breathing, right?

11:20What is that technique? It's retraining your costal diaphragm. Every time you speak, you breathe, and then you speak, and then you release the air that you don't use, and then we pause again. So it's pause, breathe, speak, release. And our diaphragm as a stammerer has been kind of trained over the years to freeze in fearful situations. That's where you get that, you know, and it's very, it's stuck. And so we're now retraining that to have its sort of full range of motion, as it will. Can I just say, this is so powerful. It truly is. I just want to be, it's really powerful. Maybe because my emotions are high anyway, but it makes me emotional for whatever reason.

12:05I recently watched the movie, I Swear. Yeah, yes. I also watched it and I was extremely moved. It is phenomenal. Yes. It is. So John Davidson. John Davidson has Tourette's and it's about his life and how he grew up and how tough it was growing up because no one understood what he was going through. And with Tourette's, if anyone doesn't know what it is, it's where you have sort of a sudden outburst of sort of tics or you say things that you shouldn't probably say in public and you can't control it. It's like trying to sneeze but holding the sneeze in, right? Yes, that's right. And watching that, I just felt so sorry for someone who was going through something so horrendous and no one understands it.

12:44And actually it's just crap. But raising awareness to these things is so important because there are so many people out there who have stammers, who are probably listening to this right now and thinking, God, maybe one day I can do this. I can achieve what you've achieved. Yeah, I think one of the proudest moments of my career and my life is that I heighten the awareness of stammering with Pop Idol, you know, and that exposure. People still now come up to me, stammer us and say, you know, thank you for being so open about it, talking about it. You know, at school when I was going through it, it was, I felt very, very lonely.

13:22I, if, if only there was a person in the public eye that I could go, well, actually I'm like them. That would just made things much easier because I was the only person in my school that had a stammer. So nobody knew what it was. And it was like, you're just a, you're just a freak or you're, or you're different or you're weird. Um, you know, so you, you, you're absolutely right. High to the awareness. Actually, and I, I haven't really spoke about it yet because it's a bit too early, but I've actually written a musical called Speechless, which is about this. And we had a workshop two weeks ago of the first half of it.

14:02We've only written the first half. We're writing the next half this year. And then we've penciled in a theatre in the West End for next year. And it's very, very, very powerful. I can't sort of give too much away, but that's about, again, And, you know, heightening the awareness and getting that message out there, not even to people that, you know, have this same affliction as me, to anybody who has anything that, you know, they feel holds them back. You don't have to accept, you know, everything you're given in life. You can, you know, you can change and you can be anything you want to be. You know, and I think that's the message where I'm trying to sort of bang on my drum.

14:44Can I ask, you said that your stomach gets worse during interviews like this or on news, is that because it's an anxiety thing? It's not a nervous thing, but it becomes worse when nerves kick in. Yeah, absolutely. In more pressurized situations, things become a bit harder. But I think also I start off extremely well in interviews because Chris is very firm. But then as I get talking, you know, I've got a lot to say and I'm absolutely fluent of beer, but sometimes it just gets stuck. That's interesting because what you want to do is you want to get your story out and you, and as we talk and when we're passionate about something like I'm doing right now, our speech gets quicker.

15:28Yes. It gets faster. You get more excited. But you have to control it the whole time because if you don't control it, then you start to stammer too much. Yes. And then it's a spiral then. And as soon as I start stammering, everything starts to unravel. And that's when Chris steps in. Gets air time. I'd actually quite like you to regroup. Okay. For 20 seconds, just breathe a bit and slow right down. That'd be good. Yeah? Good. You all right? Yeah. I just want to take you back to school times, right? When did your stammer start? When did you notice it? For as long as I can remember. Really? My dad had a stammer actually when he was young.

16:11He was one of the very, very fortunate ones that grew out of it. I haven't, my middle sister Charlotte has a stammer too. Yeah, you know, it was tough at school. It was some of the hardest years of my life. But it's funny, it's made me the person I am now. it's made me very very very resilient I can I can handle a lot more pressure and and and fear of stuff without it you know kind of breaking me um yeah and and although it was tough at the time um in a sort of weird sort of way I'm quite thankful that I went through that this is in Bradford right yes yeah so it's in Bradford where you grew up and just just talk me through those moments when you would go to school because I because imagine kids are cruel right what kind of things were happening in the school?

17:07It was, you know, a daily anxiety would set in from, you know, from the morning, from when the teacher would read out the register and you have to say, yes, miss. And I, and I literally wasn't able to, it was, we call it the creeping death where you know, you know, the, there's two more people before your name's going to be read out. There's one more person then, and then that anxiety, uh, creeps in and creeps in and the fear starts to rise. And then I'd be like, I struggle saying yes, miss. And then the classroom would laugh. It's exactly the same with reading. You have to go along and read a sentence or paragraph from whatever book we're studying and you know you see that it's four people away it's three people away shit shit oh god you know and and the anxiety and then yeah we it was awful and we all know what kids are like you know i don't blame those kids because they were kids you know and you were also a kid so it's hard to yeah yeah but you know again it goes back to what I was saying earlier.

18:22It's like there was, there was nobody else in school that had a stammer. There was nobody in the public eye I could say I'm like them. So, you know, we were all kind of blind and, um, yeah, I've, I forgive them for laughing. I do. And, and, and I forgive people on a day-to-day basis when they laugh, whenever I'm in a restaurant, for instance. Now, one of the things that us stammerers go through, we say we avoid words that we know that we're going to find hard and we replace them with words that we know that are easier the hardest thing for a stammerer to say is their name because it's the first thing you have to tell somebody when you first meet them hey you know you're supposed to tell them your name you know as a as a kid i told people that my name was something else you know my middle name's paul so i'd call myself paul or john or whatever you know you know and can you imagine how soul destroying that yeah that is your name is your identity it's who you are but it's it's the hardest thing for a stammer to say i'm i'm sure there was thousands of people when i went on tv for the first time and you know there was like wait a minute his name's not gareth it's paul or john you know i'm sure there are lots of people that was uh extremely confused but yeah but why is it that because it's the pressure of saying you i'm just trying to understand that it's there's there's only one answer to that question isn't there whereas a stammerer uh will avoid words like for instance um you want to um odd um try to think of an example um but i get it i get it with the name because there's only one answer hello i'm john robbins and i'm here to tell you about a brand new series of my podcast how do you cope each week i'm joined by remarkable guests as i ask one simple question how do you cope i'll be speaking to the likes of richard osmond if someone is opening up to you Please accept that to them it is unbelievably real.

20:37Comedian Alison Spittel. I can't eat my feelings anymore, but now I have to feel my feelings, but I don't know how to identify those feelings because I've repressed them for so long. And former communications director to Donald Trump, Anthony Scaramucci. Every one of those shows that made fun of me, I went on the show. I faced the music. Join me every week for How Do You Cope. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Do you keep hearing podcast ads, like this one for example, but always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think.

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21:34You joined the choir at nine years old, wasn't it? Yes. Bradford Choir. Yeah. And you started singing. Yes. What did that do for you? What did that make you feel when you started singing? Well, I hadn't been able to speak at all as a kid. And then at the age of eight, actually. At all? Yeah, well, I just find it very hard. I'd be really sort of evidently struggling, you know, to everybody around me. You know, I remember being four or five years old and just not being able to speak. And, you know, the impact that having of, you know, everybody laughing or mocking, you know, I have those early memories.

22:20Wow. Even as early as four? Yeah, yeah. Isn't it crazy how that sticks with you? We think four-year-olds, like we think, oh, they're just four-year-olds. They can't remember that. They're never going to remember. But you remember those moments so well, like it was yesterday almost. Yeah. And it's strange. You can't really remember much else about those times, but you remember the, you know, the hard times. But at the age of eight, actually, before I joined the Braffert Cathedral, my first girl was putting on a production of Joseph and his amazing technical dream cut. I was a very shy young boy that couldn't speak.

22:55And so, you know, I wasn't going to be attending those auditions, you know, but my friends went along and they sort of encouraged me to go along. And I was just asked to sing on the spot by the music teacher. And I sang and for the first time, kind of music came flooding out of my mouth, my lips, my tongue wasn't tense. And I could finally get out of me what was in me and, and I could express myself through music and that that changed my life i remember that first day eight years old like just we just changed everything just poured out of me what were you singing any dream will do from joseph and i just and i just sang and that changed my world i i then knew from then on you know that my all my energy had to be put into music and that's when i learned to play the piano the guitar, the drums.

23:49And I spent hours on my instruments and singing because that was the only way I could get out of me what was in me. And that kind of changed everything. You know, music saved me because, you know, I don't know what I'd be doing without it. You know, I had an outlet at last. What do you think it was? What do you think it is about the music? Why do you think singing made you relax made you not feel tense in your tongue i'm i don't know i mean i there's i don't know i think you know every time i sing i adopt a different persona i'm not me i you know i'm wearing a mask you know i've done lots of big western shows i've done lame is i've done joseph um you know footloose legally blonde um you know all those shows have big kind of lots lots of dialogue where you have to speak and and act and it's and it's strange once i've learned a script and i'm acting i'm walking in a different way breathing in a different way often in a different accent you know i'm not me i'm not gareth i'm gareth gates the singer or whatever role I'm playing in those shows.

25:07And it's a crazy thing in the mind that I just... Your stammer goes? Yeah. Yeah. That is just, that's crazy. Yeah, it is crazy. It's crazy. I'm trying in my own body and head to understand why that happens. Yeah, I don't know. Because that's a magical thing. Yes. But also an upsetting thing because it's when you're not being yourself, that's the moment your stammer sort of softens a little. Yeah, I mean, it is upsetting that I can't be like that when I'm just being me. But, you know, I don't see it like that. I see it as that kind of saved me. That was my lifeline. And that's what I kind of grabbed onto, held onto.

25:45And I was like, I'm going to put everything into this. Have you ever met any of your bullies again? Have you ever seen them or spoken to them? Well, after Pop Idol, I was doing my A-levels at the time. so I was in my second year of A-Levels. This is after Pop Idol? Yeah, well, so the live shows for Pop Idol started at the end of 2001, and it was December, I think, when the live shows actually started. So I'd already started my last year of A-Levels. So young. Yes. Crazy young. And I was at the school that I'd been at since the age of 11. So there was lots of bullies there that, you know, kind of witnessed that and saw that.

26:39And then in the February or something, you know, it was still part of the sort of academic year. You know, I went back to the school to perform an assembly or something like that. And yeah, there were quite a few of the bullies that kind of walked past like, tail between the legs um what was that what was that yeah no but i i bet that felt unbelievable yeah and why it felt nice was because you know up until pop idol having a having a stammer was a very negative thing in my life because of those people that they made it a negative thing but for the first time on pop idol you know having a stammer actually made me stand out from the crowd and in a weird way yeah it was a positive thing you know i became the boy that wasn't able to speak but could sing and having a stammer got me noticed for the right reasons whereas in the past it was for the wrong reasons and i was like this is crazy um you know so seeing those people that made me feel that way as a kid you know was actually quite nice can we talk about Popeye though?

28:02yeah please Gareth before you do will you do something for me? yes guess what I'm going to ask slow down take a few breaths you're really quite quick and tripping up here and there so yeah would be really just to I know when you're passionate of course that's the price we pay we have to distance ourselves from the passion the enthusiasm and control everything but I can but it's interesting you said it because I can still feel the passion right yes which is kind of amazing yes Popeye so when I was I went to a boarding school and I say this the audience like yes we know but every Saturday night, I think it was.

28:54So I must have been 12. And every Saturday night, we would go and watch it. As you'd been in your boarding house and you'd go and watch it, and we'd watch Park Idol. And it was like the greatest thing. Who did you vote for? Here we go. Next question. I wasn't allowed to vote because I was in boarding school. But I remember just being in awe of you and it was like the most exciting. It was the first like singing competition. For me, it was like blowing my mind that this was like something we could watch on TV, but you were in it, you experienced it. And it was the height, there was no real social media.

29:33It was the height of like paparazzi and media and clicks and glamour and oh my God. What was it like for you, that whole process? It was crazy. I look back on that time with all the kind of fond memories. You do, so it was all amazing. Yeah, it was tough at times. of course but you know pop idol was the first of its kind well before x factor and the likes and so nobody really knew what it was or what it was to become or how it would change people's lives you know all the shows that came after that you know had seen how it had you know exploded me and will and and and how we had this this career now we sold lots of records and toured and yeah you know and was you know all over the newspapers and the magazines so people who did it afterwards had a bit of a head start because they knew exactly what they were getting in into whereas you know we went in blind it was it was a first of its kind and you know i'm i'm fortunate i was young because you're 17 yeah seven i was i was a boy that's a baby yeah and you know to to um to experience that as a boy and to be able to do exactly what you love every day and to be able to have whatever you want and you know live this you know kind of gorgeous life it was yeah it it was amazing what was the audition process like um that was tough you know i i genuinely walked into that room thinking they were going to go you can't speak you aren't an idol um you know i'd watched people like people like robbie williams who has the gift of the gab and his show is as much about that as it is the music and so i thought well i have them i can sing i've trained in music my whole life i can do that side of things but the other there's there's there's no chance and i was more concerned about speaking in the audition than actually singing you know i wasn't even thinking about the performance um but when they said yeah you're through to the live finals i was like what that just yeah i was i was as as surprised as anybody else i think we had will young on the podcast yes he's such a nice guy oh my god he's the he's the best guy as well i um and apparently you guys still chat even yeah yeah yeah we um we went through a lot together you know we was together at the start of the process and the end and then we toured together we had a number one together in fact recently um i had a message from from will saying um well basically he's moved um out to wiltshire now and he texted me saying have you got a place in this tiny little village in in wiltshire and i was like yes i have a two-bed apartment there that i bought because it's opposite the school that my daughter goes to so I literally bought it for when I'm not on the road you know I can sort of gravitate to there to see you know spend time with her etc he said I've literally just bought a place in the exact same village absolutely mad the smallest village in Wiltshire and you know both kind of pop out of contestants are there you're like Kindred Souls what is that bizarre that you find the same place He did say, though, on the podcast, he said Pop Idol was a blessing and a curse because lots of people criticized him in the show.

33:20What was your experience of that? I think that that show was actually made for somebody like me. You know, I think I'm guilty for creating the kind of story-led contestants. contestants. What I mean by that is that, you know, all the shows after that, they weren't, you know, so only interested in your talent. It was the story that you came with, you know, your, your, um, you know, um, uh, try to think of an example. It is, it's your background, it's the story, it's everything. It's, it's, it's not, it's not just the it's not just the talent it's it's the whole package yeah of like where you've come from where you are now everything right yeah and i genuinely think that if it wasn't for pop idol or that kind of format of tv show then i'd have found it very very hard to get in into the industry because of my stammer you know i wouldn't have been able to the promotion you know the interviews on the live television shows or on the radio, you know, I'd have really struggled with that.

34:39I had the talent, but I didn't have the kind of personality that you need as an artist for fans, you know, to kind of latch on to. But you do have the personality. That's the thing. And that must be the trickiest thing for you. You had the personality. That's the most frustrating thing. In your head, you know you've got the personality. You just can't get it out because you have the stammer. Yes. That's the most frustrating thing, you know, in my life. I want people to see me, you know, and they can't at times. But Pop Idol was perfect for me because it showed my story. You know, people kind of labeled me that boy that can't speak, but can sing.

35:21That's incredible. Yeah. So for me, you know, that show was made for me. Simon Cowell kind of took you under his wing from the start in lots of ways he just saw you as his boy and he saw, I think Simon Cowell must have seen it it was the first time Simon Cowell was on TV as well it was the first time he was a judge, right? yeah, that's right and I think he you know, he's a he's a god in terms of knowing what will sell sell and I'm absolutely sure that he you know heard me speak and then heard me sing and thought wow we can you know we can absolutely market this this is yeah you know and he did he saw I saw oh he did I saw pound signs in his eyes when I couldn't speak yeah wait this guy's got a stammer here we go guys come on let's get him in here we go exactly how do you how do you because that show part it was huge I mean it like Like, I mean, it took over everything.

36:29It was a movement, right? And that comes with a lot of fame at such a young age. 17 years old. 17 years old, I'm like having my first Bacardi Breezer. Like, I'm not like, you know what I mean? I'm just experiencing maybe having a cigarette, you know, whatever it is. How did you handle fame when it hits like that? And so quickly. Yeah. And at such scale. I think my age actually helped. because it was just all fun for me. Because you were naive. Yes, yeah, because you didn't really think about the business end of it or you're just like, wow, this is really incredible. I just enjoyed it. It was tough at times, you know, and they ask a lot of you.

37:21But when you're having the success that I had, I had number one after number one after number one, And then it's, you know, it becomes, you know, I could then start to support my family and, you know, give them the lifestyle that I had. And, you know, all those sort of lovely things you can do, you know, as a result of being successful was I enjoyed that side of things. I'd like to stop you, Gareth. Apologies, Jamie. for my consistent interruptions. You can keep interrupting. I don't mind one bit. You know, Gareth, you said that you start well and then you speed up. Shall we start, regroup and start?

38:10Cool. I'm happy you jumped in. Yeah. Great. Thanks. You had sold 3.5 million records worldwide by the time you were 18 years old. Mm-hmm. Simon Cowell was right. That's right. That's a lot of records. Yeah, it was great. I was thankful for Simon. You know, he saw that in me. He, you know, as you said earlier on, I was his boy. I heard a story from a person who was in the room on my first audition. and they said that when I left, he raised his hands and said, we've found our pop idol. You know, from that early on, he just, you know, sort of knew, you know, that was, you know, exactly what they were looking for.

39:09But because you had the voice, you had the look, you had the story, you had the whole package. And that's why those shows are so brilliant. Because as you said, which is upsetting, is you don't think you would have made it into the industry unless it was for a show like that. So what those shows highlight are people who are incredibly talented who deserve to have a moment. Yes. You know, have that success that they deserve. Yeah. And that was it for you there. Yeah. And it's happened over and over again with many artists, you know, in those shows. You know, for instance, Susan Boyle, for instance, you know, would have never have, you know, had the success that she had on that.

39:50Sure, you know, kind of worldwide. you know, that's the example. Can I ask you a big question? When you're standing there in the final and I'm watching it, 12 years old, in my boarding house, and you're there and you're standing next to Will Young, right? And the names are announced. I'm thinking it's going to be you winning it. Are you thinking it's going to be you as well? No, I... Because when Will's name was announced, I was like, sorry? what's happened here yeah no i i um you know i certainly didn't expect and you know anything yeah i i i think they were i i was certainly surrounded by people that were like you know this is in the bag you've got this but you know i didn't choose to believe that i still then thought you know i'm not an idol i'm not the image of perfection i'm not that person um and hey if i'd have lost to anybody but will i'd have been fuming yeah but um you know he was he's a he's a talent and he's a lovely man and um yeah and shout out to will by the way who will if you're listening to this and i'm i wanted you to win as well i knew it

41:14With fame and things like that What happened especially at a young age That comes with just everything else Like it comes with You know As soon as you finished Pop Party You got flown to Miami or Florida Yes To record the album Or record Unchained Melody Isn't that right? Yeah So literally the next day I mean You know That week of the final Both me and Will We signed our album deal You know Before the final actually happened So we knew we were going to be artists And make a record Keith can I be really personal and you don't have to answer. When you're that young, you're 17, 18 years old and you sign a record deal, what does that record deal look like?

41:48Yeah, big. It was, I can't remember the exact figures, but it was something like half a million pounds. And in those days, that was big. Someone like me, that had come from very, very little, that was big. That was like life changing. you know, and then everything else had come off the back of it. You know, I had big sponsorship deals, you know, and then the more you sell and then, you know, all those big, big tours in massive arenas. You know, I was earning a lot of money, you know, and to be able to, as I said earlier, you know, to then sort of take care of your family. You know, the first house I bought was a house from my parents and my sisters who were very, very young at the time.

42:41You know, to be able to do that and to be able to give back to them who'd invested everything into me was the nicest feeling ever. You've become super famous. You're singing, you're touring. That also comes with like, I imagine like a lot of female attention. Hmm. Yeah, it was great. it was it was fun you know just imagine being a young boy and having you know everybody yeah you know sort of at your feet he was uh he was great you know but but but more so you know i wasn't able to chat up girls this is what i want to understand right it was my worst nightmare so to not have to chat some girls and put the work in.

43:28It's brilliant.

43:32Because that's what I, you know, that's what when, you know, growing up my teens, right, especially when I was younger, when I hit the age of like 14 years old, it was all about dating. I just wanted to go to like meet girls and go to the other schools and hang out and flirt and do all the things I'd seen on TV. And it was just the most exciting time, right? But I imagine for you growing up, that was a really scary time because you couldn't flirt or chat or date or do anything because you were nervous about talking. Yeah. And, you know, I avoided it at all costs. You know, being able to sing and being so good at music at school gave me some respect, you know, and some attention from girls then.

44:17But, yeah, I was debilitatingly shy. it was hard you know so fame and that exposure on the television you know really really helped my love life too which is good I have to mention this and you we can pass over it quickly my stammer's going to become very bad now and I'm not going to be able to get a word out Chris can ask for me You're on your own, Gareth

44:57Katie Price Yes Katie Price claimed in one of her books That, you know, she took your virginity No comment Oh yeah, hey, I was Is there truth in that? I'll just say I was extremely inexperienced With a girl that was extremely experienced. So, um, yeah, uh, I could see why she thought that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very good answer. But, but you did, but you did, and I'll go over this very quickly. It's just important to mention, right? You, you said that when that whole happened and she spoke about that, you felt that people almost didn't take you seriously afterwards in a way. No, it was, it was, I, I haven't ever spoke about relationships.

45:45You know, I, you know, I believe that relationships are between two people and I couldn't believe that somebody else was selling stories about, you know, very, very intimate details. You know, and I was shocked and I learned a lot about that, you know, about people and about the industry and about trust, I guess. I would have never, ever done that to her or to anybody else. And so it was a real learning curve for me. Well said. That is so true because it doesn't matter what the situation is, they are quite sacred. Yes. And it's two people. Yes, yeah. And if there's no sort of harm done in any place and it was just a romantic night, whatever, why is someone talking about that?

46:41Yeah, I felt exactly the same, you know, at the time. And yeah, it was a shame because she's a really, really lovely girl. She's, you know, but I couldn't quite believe that somebody would do that, I guess. How has your idea of trust changed? Yeah, I became sort of very wary of trusting people, you know, after that, because that was such a big thing on such a massive, massive scale. It was everywhere. It was all of the newspapers, all of the magazines. Yeah, it was everywhere. You know, it became the main thing that, you know, in every interview, you know, everybody just wanted to know about that and not about my brand new album, which I've worked tirelessly on.

47:33It was like, oh, that's a shame that I'm now, you know, sort of having to talk about this when actually I just want to be an artist. And, um, yeah, that was, that was tough. Um, and it really sort of made me re, it, it just kind of made me extremely wary of, uh, people in the industry, I guess. Did you become anxious at the time? How does that, did you just, do you go into yourself? Do you become quiet? What happens mentally? Yeah, you become very careful about what you text people, what you say to people, because, you know, you always, and, you know, if you're a single man as well, well, I was a boy at the time, I wasn't even an adult.

48:20um but you become sort of very very wary about what you're saying to people because you're thinking to yourself you know they could sell this you know they twist it yeah and yeah it was tough times at the time because you know i was so young as well um this you know literally all happened before I was, before I was 18, you know, and it was just like, oh, this is a shame. Yeah. But even the words that you use in saying it's just a shame, it's just that you're, you're just, you're so kind about that. And, and obviously for the things that you've been through and experienced, you, you have so much like forgiveness in your space.

49:06You're just like, it's a shame that that happened because, um, there there's, you know, not even with that, but just with everything, there's a great quote, which is seeking revenge is like drinking poison and wanting the other person to die. That's right. And what we do annoyingly in life, I think, is when we are felt wronged by or bullies are horrible to us, we remember it and we hate because that's the natural thing to do because they hurt you so much. But the most important thing to try and do is forgive. That's right. Because when you forgive, that's when you become free. That's right. otherwise it just eats you up and it feels like you have forgiven a lot in your life yeah you I didn't see any point in you know holding on to grudges it's um I've I've actually done the opposite I've actually used you know all that hurt as a kid to make me a stronger and a better person and you know everything that I've been through in life I've just seen it as as character building and you know I'm a I'm a much stronger I'm a much I'm a much resilient person as a result of that when you were releasing albums and your your first album had huge success yes then the second album again and then you had a little bit of a break wasn't it yeah before your third album yes and your third album didn't do as well as you hoped no if you've had so much success in the past you automatically expect that the next album is going to be as successful yes i imagine when it doesn't become as successful what does that make you feel it was just kind of part of the times and part of the journey i i i you know think i mean it's you know it's disappointing when you've had so much success and then the album that you release after all that that success or the singles you put out you know don't go straight to number one which they you know always did and then you're like oh that's a that's a shame but i um but the next sort of batch of talent competition winners were out you know they'd already moved on to pop idol to you know they'd already moved on to x factor you know and it i think that that's the nature of of the industry and particularly at that time you know where there was a brand new show you know sort of each and every year um pretty also pushes you in different directions as well you know i then went back to my original passion of of musical theatre and and I think if he you know hadn't have been for that third album not doing as well I don't think I'd have ever gone down that path you know which is led on to lots more even led you know onto me even even writing my own musical which you know I think you know will hopefully um touch wood if it does well will will be my legacy I was watching earlier your, and I saw bits of it, but I was watching the clips of your celebrity SAS.

52:25Yes. Which was just amazing. And Izzy was also watching one of the clips and it made us very emotional when you were being interrogated and you break down and start talking about the bullies and everything. And it's just... I didn't have Chris there with me, so my speech was much worse. and you know being put into that situation they're they're very um they're hard men and they know exactly how to get out of you you know what's under the surface and what's um and you're stretched in every way possible physically mentally emotionally and you know as soon as they start to tap into that everything just comes out and it it was it was awful it was celebrity sas was one of the hardest things i've ever ever done you know and those final stages where you're hearing these awful sounds in your ears and you're having to hold stress positions you know there were times you wanted to tap out but i just you know had to dig deep and you know all that was going through my head is, you know, this isn't as bad as what you've been through as a kid.

53:42You know, this isn't as bad as what you've been through as a kid. And, you know, and I think that's the reason why I sort of won the show. You said I was unearthing trauma and exposing scars I hadn't spoken about before. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I, you bury things, don't you? And just, you know, hope that they never, ever resurfaced. But touching upon that, it was, it was hard at first, but it then become very therapeutic and and and actually since then i've talked about that a lot more and i've dealt with it a lot more now um yeah which is you know in turn made me stronger because i heard that it was the first time you they offered you a therapist after the show yes it's the first time you'd ever been to therapy yeah i i had therapy for about six or seven weeks afterwards because yeah they expose things they kind of dig up things you've put to bed many many years ago you know and it really really brought a lot out and um yeah just you know talking to somebody is and what's by far the best way to deal with that because as men we don't talk about things no and and i've been very open about this and i i never spoke about anything my anxieties my things that i was feeling internally yes that's also a very lonely place to be because um you think you're different and you don't want to even speak it that's what you're thinking because you think you're going to be judged and you're just trying to hide it yeah and you know all of those feelings and if you actually find it hard to talk as it is you never talk and you know that's a uh that's a problem of mine you know i don't talk much i don't you know sort of air what's in my mind i keep it all in and i think that tv show was the first time that they you know kind of picked off that scab and then everything you know just kind of came out i'd even think of it like that gareth where the the best remedy is talking right that's why we say like therapy is talking but if you don't want to talk that much because you're almost afraid of talking it's it's almost a double yeah that's right that's right yeah and can i can i ask because if someone's listening right now who perhaps is in that position and they're having a really tough time and whatever they may be going through what would you say to that person i'd encourage them that being different isn't such a bad thing and it and it actually makes you you um you know and these scars that we bear and these you know sort of hard times that we go through um actually makes you a much better and a stronger person um in in the in the long run um and a piece of advice i'd give to lots of people as well lots of people in the same in the same situation is to try and find the

56:50try to laugh at yourself at times at times you know I um I have a funny story about having a stammer I was asked to present a tv award um at a tv award show this was probably 10 years ago and I was waiting in the wings you know and that for a stammer is a massively highly pressurized situation you know you have to open the envelope and call out the winner and I said oh god so I'm there waiting in the wings the presenter says and to present the best daytime television award is Mr. Gareth Gates. And so I come sort of walking on, and I begin to read the autocue. And I said something like, and the nominees for best daytime television program are, and they showed like a VT.

57:48Then I opened the envelope, and the winner was a TV show called Countryfile. Now, often as a stammer, it's the first syllable of the word that you find hard. and so I said and the winner is cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt cunt

58:10that was so bad it was so bad I mean thankfully it was a pre-record and the director said cut cut and come running up to the stage he was like what are you doing I was like what do you mean what am I doing I have a stammer I have a stammer and so then the next time that I really hummed it up. And the winner is cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.

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59:23So where do your passions lie now? So you're writing this musical, right? and you're going to write the other half. When do you think that will be released? Well, we're hoping for autumn 2027. So exciting. Yeah, it's really cool, actually. It's hard to write something so personal and it has to come from a place of truth. you know um and i'm a producer now as well i'm producing lots and lots of shows boy band in the buff yes um i train hard in the gym now every day and i have done for the past seven or eight years and buddy you look good yeah i've seen the top off you over there nodding

1:00:20um yeah but it was it was actually celebrity sas that gave me the you know even more more drive to train harder and be better um and then yeah it was only last year i was kind of coming up with ideas for shows and yeah i came up with this idea of boy band in the buff um it's it's all the big 90s and noughties boy band hits from um bands like backstreet boys n-sync westlife take that boys on blue to name a few five is five in there is that yeah lots of everybody get up singing wow dude that is unbelievable dude um and it's my self and forward the lads very very talented boys who do lots of western shows all sing all dance and just so happened to look half decent without a top on perfect perfect night out wait so who's your favorite band of all time well boy band of all time yeah boy yeah uh i i mean i dreamed of being in in westlife when i was young i just really wanted to be in westlife and then i i had absolutely no idea that simon cowell like created westlife you know i had no idea before my first audition just so happened i sang one of the westlife songs in my first audition um to the man that created it and uh and then um after pop i'd a westlife were on on tour um and i performed with them at wembley and i kind of came up and and sang one of their songs with westlife and i was what is that like yeah what is that like it was just you know these were songs that i'd performed you know, as a kid, you know, in my school talent show and to be singing with, you know, your, your idols were, yeah, it was incredible.

1:02:15But to now be singing these songs, you know, every night now on this brand new tour, Boy Band in the Buffer, going all over the country. We've extended now into the autumn of this year and into next spring. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me. Are you kidding me? That was... just beyond amazing thank you for being so sort of open and uh you know these things are hard for me still and you know as you saw i'm sure i started off very strong and then but i would disagree i just i i don't think there was a point ever which where the way was lost or something it faltered i thought you were pinpoint perfect yeah truth i i promise you maybe that's Chris, what do you think?

1:03:04I think it was a great interview. I think it was good. It went well. I think you were fantastic. And thank you for allowing me to interrupt. Anytime, Chris. You can stay there forever if you want. Thank you for having us as well, because I absolutely know that me talking about my speech will absolutely reach somebody on your podcast. you know, and it'll make a difference, you know, so just talking about it, you know, and raising awareness is a big, big thing. So thank you. Okay. If we'd like to end the conversation with eight quick fire questions. Okay. Don't have to make them quick. We can make them as slow as you want.

1:03:47What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

1:03:53Saying or phrase, I would have to say adapt and overcome. I've, I've, I've had to do that. My, entire life. When you struggle with something, you have to be quick on your feet, you have to adapt, but still be sort of pushing to overcome and to push through whatever you're going through. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? um so um not long after pop idol um i was doing comic relief actually i i did spirit in the sky for comic relief you know i had a big hit with that for the charity and i was doing some promo for that and i walked into a tv studio and ron atkinson was there ron atkinson mr bean and he came up to me actually he said hey i suffer the same affliction as as you do and he was really really really stammering and i was like what that's that's that's crazy you know all those big comedic roles that he's done and comedy for a stammerer is the hardest thing because it's all about timing and you have to get the punchline um you know sort of out at the right time and i couldn't believe what I was seeing and and hearing and he then told me that the character Mr Bean was actually born from you know him not being able to speak very much you know and all that Bean and and and I was like what you know so that's another example of a person that has a stammer you know but actually using that you know and and and then creating this this character in the shore which is now worldwide you know everybody knows mr bean and that's through him having a having a stammer and that kind of blew my mind that's totally blown my mind yeah that is so cool yeah seeing seeing sort of fellow person in the industry that's going through the same as you you are and that it's you know okay to be different what scares you most about yourself a stammering live on television that that for me is my biggest biggest fear really yeah yeah it's still a big one you know every time i do any of the um the live tv you know like this morning um on the rain we did a few a couple of months ago and the fear level you know for that you know even even years and years after is is sort of hard work yeah but it's so amazing that you put yourself out there and actually do it even though that's your biggest fear yeah i i have to really because you know as soon as soon as you start to say no to those things think things get even harder when was the last time you cried um the last time i cried was possibly last week my beautiful beautiful daughter turned 17 um and we uh actually got her first car um and um she was like really really really made up no she cried i cried we all cried what's something you can't let go of um probably probably probably the memories of having to stand up at school and speak you know those those will stay with me forever i think what's your guilty pleasure

1:07:37um my guilty pleasure would have to be boy band music yeah it's phenomenal um i mean it's the best it's actually the best yeah and i did a lot a lot of research for this brand new show that i'm doing and um yeah and it just kind of rekindled my love for boy it's so good it's yeah i you know i was i was extremely fortunate that i actually grew up in that golden era of pop um yeah and it's you know i think at the time it was sort of criticized to be you know sort of too pop but it's just brilliant. It's so good. Exactly. I want it that way. Oh, the best song ever written. I think it's after with Let It Be by The Beatles.

1:08:20It's like, it's the greatest. That guy who wrote that, Max Martin, he's just an absolute genius. And yes, it's extremely pop, but it kind of evokes an emotion and it's brilliant. It's so good. What turns you off? turns me on arrogance what turns you on

1:08:46the gym let's go turns me on let's go I just love it what do you like most about yourself

1:09:03that's a tough one I'm not I'm not the best at finding things that I like about myself. I'm actually going to say my new teeth.

1:09:22Yeah, it's great. They're perfect. Gareth, thank you so much. Thank you to Chris as well. Everyone needs to go and buy a ticket to Boy Bands in the Buff. We're going to leave all the links in the show description. Thank you so much for having me. Are you kidding me? You're the greatest. And thank you so much. Come back anytime. We adore you. And you've been great company. So thank you so much. Thank you. You've been amazing. Thank you so much.

1:09:59Hello, I'm John Robbins. And I'm here to tell you about a brand new series of my podcast, How Do You Cope? Each week, I'm joined by remarkable guests as I ask one simple question How do you cope? I'll be speaking to the likes of Richard Osman If someone is opening up to you please accept that to them it is unbelievably real Comedian Alison Spittel I can't eat my feelings anymore but now I have to feel my feelings but I don't know how to identify those feelings because I've repressed them for so long And former communications director to Donald Trump Anthony Scaramucci Every one of those shows that made fun of me I went on the show I faced the music Join me every week for How Do You Cope?

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