GRACE BEVERLEY: What I’ve Learnt From Building TALA & Overcoming Burnout

0:00Grace Beverley: Tala nearly went bankrupt. There was about three months where every single week I was wondering if we'd make payroll. I spent a good few years on the path to full burnout, full, cannot get out of bed. I wasn't even ovulating. My whole body had gone into shutdown. If someone's listening right now, a female founder or someone who is starting a business, what advice would you give that person? Okay, big question. That is great advice. I'm Grace Beverley and I'm in great company entrepreneur Grace Beverley Grace Beverley your husband when he proposed to you it was I think some of the world's greatest he organised a fake trip for you yeah we'd arrived at the hotel they'd had briefing calls so like they arrived they go are you here for the Armani event he'd flown out an Armani makeup artist to do my makeup everyone is in on this oh my god this is insane you said your miscarriage was like invisible grief no one knows that you were pregnant and it's just you have to continue it's entirely unfair that you wouldn't get your baby and then also you're expected to well you didn't have that so so here we go guess you're back to work if you lose your pregnancy at tala you can take a full return to leave wow leading from the front like that is so important women are expected to do so many different things to such a high standard i think that if you can have solid female friendships alongside whatever else you're doing i completely will always be in an okay place we have so much owners put on finding a relationship, on settling down, on getting married, on all of these different things.

1:32Grace Beverley: I mean, female friendships aren't said to be a priority in the world.

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3:51Grace Beverley: what scares you about motherhood oh there's so much really yeah yeah there's a lot like I have always known that I've wanted to be a mother I used to I actually used to say so much as a child like I really want to be a really good mom that my sister told me the more you say that the worse mom you become because I was pissing her off so much so perfect yeah exactly so clearly the like the aspiration was there from the beginning. I just, I think like I've, I've built my career in like a very specific way, right? Like over the past, I've been doing this for 10 plus years and every few years I've added on what feels like a really good add-on for where I am at in my career and the teams I've been able to build and all of that to be able to facilitate me to do more and more of what I feel my skill set is.

4:43And that's conscious choice.

4:45Grace Beverley: And that's conscious, like pretty much everything I've done is quite specifically reverse engineered for the type of life I want to live and the type of businesses I want to build and the type of work I want to have. Like even when I essentially kind of fell into, I guess, being a content creator, when I came out of uni immediately, I was like, this is not what I want to do. So deleted all my YouTube videos overnight, like went, like stopped posting for two years, focused on building the businesses because I was like, that's what I actually want to do. So what scares me about motherhood is that what you can imagine from all of that is like a complete, well, it's complete control.

5:22Grace Beverley: Like it's complete control over, and don't get me wrong, every part of the business is a certain amount out of your control. And I deal with that every day as well, but I'm so trained to deal with that and I've done that for so long that I feel like that is really what I'm good at and I this is really unknown it's so unknown and it's so many variables and so much so many uncontrollable aspects and I just and so far from what I feel like my day-to-day is like great do you know what you by the way you you're going to relate to so many people who feel the same way. And I think that, especially when you're a bit of a control freak, like I am as well, I need to be in control of different things.

6:10When you are having a baby, it feels like something you can't control. And a baby is a baby. And it's there. And it has needs and desires and wants. And it's a human and everything. And so you have to let go of that control.

6:22Grace Beverley: 100%. I think two parts of that. A, I literally have OCD, like diagnosed OCD. So there's an element of that that I'm kind of like, Like I've been trying to, I don't know, I've been trying to work around that, but also almost like use the parts of that that I feel like are my superpower. Not to, I mean, everyone will have a different experience who's been diagnosed with OCD. Like I'm not talking for anyone else, but for me, I have tried to mitigate the bad sides of things whilst also being able to use the sides of things where I'm like, well, this actually means that I'm amazing at this, this, this, and this.

6:57Grace Beverley: I think that that is so far from like you have to let go of control so much when it comes to motherhood and parenting and all of that that is probably like I feel like I'm being thrown so in the deep end from from where I am now um how does your OCD manifest before the point two how does it how does that um lots of different ways as you can probably tell like I'm very intentional around how I've done everything, then that's like my happy place. And that's where I feel, it's weird, like I feel most free in an environment where I can control a certain amount of like, like my recurring dreams are about being unprepared for exams, for example.

7:38Grace Beverley: Like every single night, I have a fucking dream about the fact that I'm sitting my finals the next day and I've not done the work for it. And like that's my version of like a true nightmare because like my freedom sits within a certain level of control and a certain amount of that is unhealthy. That's such a juxtaposition though. Your freedom sits in the place where you control it, right? Yeah. But to me, that's where I feel, I guess, like safest and happiest and all of that. I think that the, well, another big way it manifests is that like there's the less nice sides of things. Like I get really strong intrusive thoughts.

8:11Grace Beverley: Like I struggle a lot with like the, I think the reason I try and be prepared for every single outcome, which is impossible when you have businesses and impossible when you're juggling so many different things, but it's because I constantly think that the worst is going to happen in every single scenario. Do you? Yeah. It's exhausting. Really busy up here. Wow. Whoa. I didn't, but you're, you're a risk taker and you have pushed boundaries like way before so many people's times at such a young age and done so many things that no one would do and the reason why a lot of people wouldn't do that is because they would be afraid of the outcome but so that feels like a that I didn't realize that it was so busy in your mind well I think that that I think that's fair to say mine was almost the opposite in that when I started the businesses and generally in the first few years of I guess entrepreneurship although I didn't necessarily see it that way at the time I was not very happy in a number of different ways So it felt like actually the risk was staying where I was rather than doing the big leap things of kind of like getting out of there.

9:19Grace Beverley: So I think when a lot of people think of like, oh, is it really cringe if I do all of this or if I start this or if I start posting about this, then they naturally, it naturally feels like the safest version is not to do that. I always try and encourage people to flip that on its head where it's kind of like, okay, well, what's worth living a life that's designed for someone else? Because you're so worried about what everyone else is going to think. Or like that to me is a bigger risk than actually just trying to go for these, I don't know, bigger things. But when you get those intrusive thoughts, right, and you think the worst is going to happen, right?

9:59When something does go wrong, do you then say to yourself, I told you, I knew this was going to happen? Or do you look at it more logically than that?

10:06Grace Beverley: I think I'm relatively logical. I think that one of the things that it means is that I'm very prepared for most outcomes. That's an anxiety thing. Well, yeah, 100%. And I try, and I'm not very good at being, but I try and be aware of what's actually helpful and what's unhelpful in terms of that internal monologue. But it does mean that a lot of the time I'm, I guess, you know, if the worst that's going to happen is this, what three things can we do that mean that we're prepared in that scenario? Not in a kind of like truly exaggerated sense, but actually some places that's a helpful exercise, some places it's not a helpful exercise.

10:48And I guess that the battle for me has been differentiating which is which and not needing to approach everything in my personal life, for example, with the same rigor that I would try and approach it to, you know,

11:00Grace Beverley: run a business and manage millions of investors' money and all of those different things. Do you remember the first time when you felt out of control? Yeah, I think that from relatively early on, I definitely realised that I preferred situations that I was able to control the outcome more. Like I really liked going into an exam, for example, feeling very prepared for it and feeling like I truly understood things and whatever it might be. and I think that one thing that's probably maybe a misconception about me maybe maybe not but is that I because I had quite a I guess textbook high achieving kind of beginning I don't know but I think that the actually I was told throughout school that I wasn't like as in that and I don't say this is a soft story at all I genuinely think this is what's like motivated me to to get to where I am now and to get to that point is like I was told over and over like in primary school my parents were told like she's she's not an academic candidate for anything um she's unlikely to you know be able to go to any of the kind of more competitive uh schools so I would just like don't stick her through the 11 plus like just don't you know like this is not that's not the direction for her and that definitely like continued in a narrative like every single thing that I achieved that was impressive I never got the first time like it was never a so you see Oxford I didn't get in the first time like I tried twice um same with many different like literally every single thing I have that's impressive that I've done was not achieved the first time I was never particularly good at things and so was constantly told that over and over it was kind of like yeah yeah like fine and so like for my GCSEs for example I was predicted like I was predicted like I don't know like in some of the subjects I really loved and thought you know I would do well at I remember coming home with my predicted grades which were like very different from what my older sisters had got and it was kind of a handful of C's and some B's here and there and like all of that and I just remember being like oh like I this is so refreshing to hear no I'm so this is so refreshing to hear well for some people like as in I don't know I don't know I always resistant to say these things I think everything's so relative because obviously for some like for some people that would be like you know as in like that wouldn't be something that they'd be upset about or whatever but I just remember like that was constantly the narrative that was around me I was just like that's not her lane um and so like I remember for example when I became when I came home with those predicted grades like I doubled down and like wrote myself this like insane revision schedule and realized that I didn't learn very well from the tuition method I was receiving like I just didn't learn by rote like I just wasn't good at that so like got all the textbooks set myself different like literally had it on a calendar on my wall of like this day we're going through this chapter this day we're going through this chapter this day we're going through this chapter printed off all the past exams like all of this went through that that was my first example after GCSEs like I remember coming out of that and I remember getting the results and I got like an award for getting the highest in my school and I just remember being like what the fuck like I was like explicitly like they called my parents into meeting and were just like this is not this you know like this is not where we'd expect it to maybe be but this is what we're expecting for her and I think from that point I started to like really put two and two together of like okay that makes sense when you're stressed about things and when things feel that far out of your control you are only a certain level of preparation away from making that reality different.

15:01Grace Beverley: And I think that - That is great advice. Yes. I think I may have taken it too far at some point, but I agree. I think that that became like, almost like a drug for me. My whole narrative has been, if you take things into your own hands and if you do X, Y, Z to be able to put yourself there, there have still been examples where I've fallen short, but it was like that element of control was actually, as I said, what brought me that freedom of being able to achieve what I wanted to achieve. Yeah, because it's so true. Because what you found at a young age is you found that awareness that you can actually do it yourself.

15:35Grace Beverley: And I think I also learned in a way that like, I was always very, I think I always wanted to do the right thing. Like I wanted to, I don't mean that from a moral sense, although like as much as we'd hope that, like as in genuinely, I wanted the acceptance and validation and yes, that was the right thing to do or whatever. So even prior to that point, it'd be like, well, surely the way everyone else is doing things is the right way to do things because everyone else knows better. And so that's what kind of enabled that change is that those early times were some of the first times where I was like, actually, sometimes different things work for different people.

16:08Grace Beverley: And this clearly isn't working for me. And therefore, what if I do all of this myself? And I kind of, I don't know, I've built up a real trust in myself to always get myself through these situations. Does that make you stubborn probably i just i don't know my husband's more stubborn than me so it can't be that bad um but yeah i mean i mean do you still feel you have something to prove to the teachers was it to your parents was it to your family where was that drive coming from to be to break down those barriers and say well if someone's telling me no i know i can do it and i want to do it because a lot of people would just go i can't get into oxford i've been told i'm not going to I'm not going to that school or this school.

16:56Okay, fine. I'll just accept that. You didn't want to accept that. But that needs to come from somewhere.

17:02Grace Beverley: Yeah, I don't think if I'd, if someone had talked to me at the time, for example, around the Oxford thing, if someone had talked to me and said, you're not going to get in, I probably still would have bought that whilst trying to do the opposite, if that makes sense. It's not that I had this fierce conviction in myself that was just like, well, no, you're completely wrong. I was kind of like, well, yeah, but I might as well give it a go. and like these are the things I'm going to do and like if I don't get there at least I know I gave it a good try. I think that like in terms of like what's the motivation, what's the drive, I think if you spoke to, and I'll be interested here if you agree, I personally think if you spoke to any single entrepreneur ever, they've all got a chip on their shoulder.

17:41Grace Beverley: Genuinely, like sorry. I think it's the case because it is an insane thing to do. And I think so much. Go deeper. I want to get, what is your chip? What do you mean by this? I think they can be different things for different people. Like for some things, it's proving something to someone. For something, like I think I was really quite an insecure teenager. And I, yeah, and I think that I started my first business, what, at 18? And I started suddenly being able to prove to myself that actually like, maybe not that I was like the most fun person or the prettiest or the like this, that, and the other, but I could make money.

18:21Grace Beverley: I can do that really well and so I think that that like you know it's not that that became everything but I I started to realize that I was quite good like various of these different things particularly without needing other people's buy-in like it wasn't necessarily that I needed you to find it cool that I was selling ebooks online I found it cool that I was seeing the fruits of that because I just want to understand this because I think this chip on the shoulder idea is really interesting right because being in being an entrepreneur you have to there has to be something driving you and there's that whole saying which is are you being dragged are you driving and typically we're being dragged by something like the idea to be seen or to make someone proud or whatever I think with so much entrepreneurship as well it like goes beyond the threshold of like what would make sense in terms of like okay well if you were just doing it to succeed in this area which I see some people do and then they're great and they're happy I also see lots of people who have you know they're like serial entrepreneurship the exit after exit the complete obsession with like like constantly hitting new heights and I think that has to and I say this from my perspective so perhaps I am projecting um but I think that to a certain extent has to come from an underlying search for validation that's not being found elsewhere How important are friendships to you?

19:47Grace Beverley: Very, very important. I think one thing that I like, try and make really clear, even across socials now, for example, is yes, I would love you to take me seriously as a very important businesswoman. But the most important things to me in my life are my relationships outside of work and particularly female friendships. Explain why. I believe that what you can get out of female friendships is, and what you can, the fulfillment you can both give to and get out of female friendships is unlike so many other things. And I think that particularly for young women, we have so much onus put on finding a relationship, on settling down, on getting married, on all of these different things.

20:36Grace Beverley: I mean, women are expected to do so many different things to such a high standard and to never look like it's hard and all of this all comes from the like having it all aspect. But I think that actually for so long, that's meant that female friendships aren't said to be a priority in the way that I absolutely think they are. Like, I think that, you know, I'd like to think that my marriage will last forever. I'd like to think that every relationship I've been in will last forever and all of these different, you know, that my businesses will last forever and all of these different things. I think that if you can have solid female friendships alongside whatever else you're doing, you will always be in an okay place.

21:15I think that friendship is the most important thing. And actually, there's that great analogy we had a guy called Bob Waldinger on who's part of the happiness test, which is basically saying that connections with family and friends are the most important things to make you happy in life. And actually when we go through life, we forget that. But you haven't. You've realised how important friendship is.

21:34Grace Beverley: Yeah, and I definitely think there have been, like, look, there have absolutely been times, like, where I haven't prioritised it anywhere near as much as I should. Like, I'm clearly a workaholic. But I think that where you can, like, it can look at, like, different things to different people. And I have no doubt certain things will change as I go into motherhood and have less time in that respect. Certain things change. Like two of my closest friends moved to Australia. That was like a, I was like, oh, you know, how am I going to deal with this? I talk to you about everything all the time. Like various different things.

22:10Grace Beverley: There are always going to be changes, but I think having a, it's just like knowing your life pillars, like knowing what your pillars are, your core pillars are and how to uphold them. Because Because I think that that really has been over the past few years why I've not just, I think prior to the past few years, I'd been at a point where I've been like, yes, happy with my life, happy with my career, still striving for more, but like happy with where I am. I think that over the past few years, I've really focused on, okay, what genuinely would make you happy outside of thinking that your career is ticking lots of boxes, like genuinely in the day to day, in your soul, like in what you are getting from all of that.

22:49Grace Beverley: And I think that absolutely that comes from friendships and just knowing what you're, knowing, as you say, how you water that, knowing you don't need to have 10 really close friends. How many close friends do you have? I don't know. I wouldn't want to say a number and people cut themselves out. No, because the reason why I said it is that I heard that firstly that you have a fixed date that you'll see your friends every week, which is amazing. And I remember looking on social media, seeing one of the greatest things I've ever seen is when your friend had just given birth. You and your friends get on the train, dressed as cleaners, turn up her house and help her with her cleaning the house.

23:28The greatest video ever. Thank you. It's fantastic. And amongst everything else, amongst working as hard as you're working, you're still creating time for others, for your community, for your village.

23:41Grace Beverley: Yeah. I mean, I think, and as are they for me. I think the main thing is, is as with anything that you believe is a priority, it has to be a priority in your schedule. Like, I really love the saying, if someone followed you around for a week, would they believe you're serious about your goals? And I think we often focus on that in terms of career and in terms of lifestyle. I don't think we necessarily focus on that in terms of like, okay, well, if one of your goals is to build connection and feel fulfilled and have great friendships, where are they in your week? Like, and I'm not saying, I know that people have, you know, particularly people with dependents, particularly people who are working alongside that, particularly people who have moved across the world, all of this.

24:20Grace Beverley: It doesn't need to be sitting down and having dinner. It can be the phone call, like you phone them while you're walking to the gym or you, or in your lunch break or like whatever it might be. It is facilitating connection in a way that matches your schedule and matches the way you live. And I think that that's one thing I got wrong for a while and I just couldn't work it out. And I was just like, I guess I'm just having to prioritize Korea. And actually, there are various different things that I've done a lot of content on, like, how to make a village, how to be a part of a village. Like, that cleaning thing, as I was saying, like, everyone wants to have a village.

24:56Grace Beverley: No one necessarily wants to do the getting on the train and doing a full deep house clean when you haven't even cleaned your own house for your friend. but like that is you've got to be the village in order to have a village and all of that and I think that again it's just tailored to me and what my life looks like so for example with the weekly friends dinners that's like if if it was on a Friday night and it was always at a nice restaurant there's no way it's happening it is however on a Monday night which I know sounds insane and at the beginning I was very anti. It was on a Monday night at a friend's house and the rule is we all look like shit.

25:35Grace Beverley: Like as in you actually can't compromise on that rule. So people come with wet hair in pyjamas or, you know, like as in it's and sometimes someone will have cooked. Sometimes it will be a takeout situation. It's like, there's no way I can cook this week. I can't even make it to the shops, like whatever it might be. And again, it's just like a standing thing. It's just on repeat because if we all have to go to the like, additional mental load of booking something in the diary we're and actually at the moment i'm i'm renovating my place before we have the baby and so jesus wise um and so we should be moving in in three weeks stress levels pretty good oh yeah feeling strong yeah but like so so all of that's fallen out the window at the moment because i'm not i'm i'm living in a temporary place i'm not kind of like as in like everything's kind of all over the place but it's about and so it's about knowing that not all of your pillars are going to be like completely upright the whole time but you can still show up and be that any version of yourself it doesn't matter exactly and you can still you can still pick that back up you can still you just need to when you say something's a priority it needs to be a priority in the actual realization of what that looks like in your schedule can I have you do your friends show up for you as well yeah so before this pregnancy I had a miscarriage um in like October of last year and obviously that was really difficult and at the same time we had our Westfield Tala store opening the like literally the next week and so I had to like I mean I had to have an operation I had to get the operation moved forward but in order to be able to do the recovery in time to be able to make it to the store opening because I was just like I on top of everything I really don't want to miss this thing that we've worked so hard for and literally like being I'd done the whole prep for the store also in first trimester because I had a whole first trimester so I'd be kind of violently nauseous all over the place trying to like build the store get it into place the week before we actually open I end up having a miscarriage so I'm obviously like emotionally completely thrown grieving massively going through an operation the hormonal like cliff of that is massive like I don't think that was ever even talked about to me from doctors or whatever it might be like it is a huge crash um and every single day that week and my um my husband he's self-employed so I mean he's there for me through absolutely everything and of course he was there from me throughout all of that there was no way he could not be at work um he had contracted work um it's not like a kind of you know talk to your boss and say you know this is going on or whatever and so every day I would have been alone at home and every single day one of my friends got permission to work from home to work from mine and like they cleaned my house they cooked my food they did they brought me like packs of like sudokus and crosswords and like foot masks and we watched full seasons of things and they were fully still needing to do their jobs and sitting there and still doing their jobs they had rotors set up with each other in order to make sure that I wouldn't be alone at home and in order to make sure that I would be recovered in time to be able to do the thing that I had said fully like everyone was like you don't have to and I was like 100 % I'm going to be at the store opening like I'm not missing this like this is this is you know I've worked so hard for this um and so yeah you are a village to other people you and it doesn't always go both ways that is a that's a credit to your friends but also a credit to you because when when people show up for you that means you've shown up for them and what I've talked about before as well is like it's not always been like that at all like as in that's been a very conscious effort on a number of different people's things.

29:33Grace Beverley: And don't get me wrong, you're going to have different tiers of friendships. There are going to be some people who would do that for you and some people who never would, and you still have a great time with, and you just don't ask it of them and you wouldn't do that for them either. Like, it's just a kind of, you know, it's not who they are. But finding high effort friends when you are also high effort and being able to kind of maintain that through doing the thing first rather than expecting the thing first I think is so important and it's been a real concentration of mine over the past few years to like I don't want to say be a village in order to get a village because that sounds like it's like entirely selfish and just like buying it but like as in genuinely like be the friend that I always wanted to have because I think for a very long time I was like god why does everyone else have these massive friend groups that they just came from school with and they're you know so close and they get on so well and they do all these things together and like these friendships didn't start till my mid-20s yeah and I think that's really important for people to realize that if you haven't found your village that doesn't mean your villagers are not going to come they're going to be there you know by the way thank you for sharing that because I saw your post when you spoke about your miscarriage and it's very brave to talk about it especially so openly why did you decide that you wanted to talk about it I think it's probably one of those selfish things where it it shook me so much that I maybe like couldn't believe that it was such a taboo subject elsewhere when it is such a mass disruption in your life and so many I mean I think I don't know the stats off the top of my head I think it's like one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage it's a huge stat and I mean before November of last year I think it was there wasn't even statutory miscarriage leave like unless you lost a baby after 24 weeks which is considered like essentially you've gone into labour past that point like it's not even considered so much a miscarriage as a stillbirth past that point at that point you get two weeks as in statutory and prior to that you don't technically get any it's kind of up to your employer to truly understand and all of that add into that the complication around even telling your employer you were thinking about having a baby in the first place and all of these different things it's there's it means that so many women are going through this amount of pain and obviously the dads as well but kind of going through this amount of pain and on top of that because it's so taboo like when something's taboo it carries shame so what like why like why is there all this shame around the fact that you had a pregnancy and it didn't work out it should be better understood in order to be able to be better supported and you described it so beautifully you said um you said your miscarriage was like invisible grief because you're still showing up you're still functioning you're still doing all the things that you know but no one knows that you were pregnant and it's just you have to continue yeah and I didn't talk about it until over a month later as well like I did you know for a while people didn't know like it was it wasn't a it wasn't an open thing that I went back in kind of told everyone about I tried to get out of my grief before I actually felt like I could even speak about it um but it also just like I don't know I think even since that point, we've made changes, for example, at Tala to actually introduce a miscarriage policy, like to introduce the fact that you can have prolonged leave, obviously including prior to 24 weeks.

33:22Grace Beverley: But after 24 weeks, if you lose your pregnancy at Tala, you can take a full maternity leave. Wow. And same with full paternity leave. Wow. Because - That's amazing. it's entirely unfair that you wouldn't get your baby. And then also you're expected to, well, you didn't have that. So here we go. Guess you're back to work. Leading from the front like that is so important. That's why it's so important to look to female founders, see what they're doing. So then you can incorporate it and borrow that and use it within your own businesses. Well, thank you. I think that's really important to say because obviously we also know that female founders statistically receive less than 2 % of venture capital funding.

34:01Mad.

34:02Grace Beverley: It's just, but also like, as in, so I think that people often think of that as a specifically entrepreneur specific problem. It feels like, you know, when you talk about, okay, well, there are less women in this field or there are less women in this. When we look at the amount entrepreneurship affects the whole rest of the world, like the tech you are using, the products you are using, the science that's being done, the studies that are being done, all of this comes from, the large majority comes from privately owned companies. so if that's the case privately or or obviously IPO'd as well but that have been founded in some what way that means it's all built in the vision of a male world because founders build things to solve their own problems we also know that women hire more women they put more women into positions of power like we god forbid we promote women just before their maternity leave if that is the right thing for the company like same with you know hiring like as in people are terrified of putting women in positions of power within companies when they are at childbearing age which is most of their working life and they then you know there aren't policies around like a number of these different things in order to actually facilitate women being able to work in the way we expect them to we expect women to be mothers as if they don't have a job and work as if they're not mothers and all of these different things and it kind of all of it creates this massively uneven world where I don't think we can even start to talk about gender equality or gender equity when actually it is so far skewed from the reality because if 98 % of the funding is going into companies where that's not being reflected then think about even if you don't care about entrepreneurship you don't care about the products, you don't care about the data, you don't care about the tech you're using every day, all of these things.

35:52Even if you don't even think about that, look at the, you know, the fact that

35:59Grace Beverley: like how few women are in those positions of power, how much they're actually getting paid, whether they're getting promoted, all of these different things. Like I am so proud of working within companies where I can look at the leadership team, the large majority of women with children. and that is means that we are able to not only cater for our customer better and truly understand the life that they're living but also we're able to build something where yeah we have to understand what flexibility we need then in certain environments and what how we actually build a company that that facilitates those things rather than just assuming that every single woman who goes on maternity leave is never going to come back to work not through their own choice but because your workplace doesn't have things to support it like it just it doesn't it doesn't make any sense let's fucking go grace let's fucking go i can hear everyone internally clapping like yeah you're part of the two percent though because your businesses have been funded by venture capital right does that make you proud it makes me proud but i think i'm so kind of disappointed by the statistic consistently and by the way i've been tooting this horn for however many years too.

37:09I first raised funding, what, five years ago?

37:12Grace Beverley: Had the stats changed? No. Also, before you think it doesn't affect me other ways, this is literally coming from your national insurance money because it's coming from the British Business Bank. So there should be disclosure around what's being invested in. Like this 98 % discrepancy wouldn't happen in any other industry. What was your experience like as a female founder going into those meetings, asking for money, trying to raise capital for a business? Because you've mentioned that they almost didn't believe that you were the CEO, you were the founder. I thought you were, oh, you're just going to be the face of the company.

37:43Grace Beverley: Yeah. It's always been a mixed bag. I think, you know, I've, we've been very fortunate to be in the position each time we've raised money to be able to be quite selective about who we've ended up going with because we don't want to compromise the key values of the company or who we are or like whatever it might be. And we generally go for portfolios that have already invested in lots of other female founder teams as well so because also particularly if you're doing it to get your stats up which i do think people like the stats should be up so we've got to do that somehow but and then we get into the room and you don't believe i can genuinely run this company or whatever it might be and that's also going to be difficult no because we've chosen well with our investors but like that would i've seen that happening all over the place particularly you know i was shit scared to tell our investors that i was pregnant and even that like that that's not a reflection on them that's just because i know the industry that's society i know the industry i know society i know the expectation i wrote in my email telling them about it essentially like obviously i still want to work here whereas the amount of times i've heard from investors oh by the way my wife's having a baby next week and you go okay well thank you for letting me know i'm glad that's disrupted your life so much like as in and And obviously, like a big equal part or like a big part of improving a lot of these things is things like Shed, Matt and Pat leave and like all of these different things.

39:07Grace Beverley: So, of course, it should be, you know, that I'm not saying that that's necessarily like their fault either. But yeah, I think that, you know, I've had so many different responses because I've raised three different rounds, different types of investors for tech and for consumer. So I've kind of seen the whole, no, not the whole space. I've seen a big chunk of the space. There's a lot of, I wonder what it would be like, were I not, like when I've raised Fatala, I've always wondered if I wasn't raising for a product that they would assume they didn't understand because it's so, because it's for women.

39:46Grace Beverley: would I even be allowed in this room? Like genuinely, because the assumption is that women make things for women and men make things for everyone. If someone's listening right now, a female founder or someone who is starting a business, what advice would you give that person? What would you give them if they're going to look for funding? What should they do? Where should they go? How should they start? Okay, big question. Kind of totally depends. Sorry, not very helpful. But there are many different types of funding and venture capital funding is not right for everyone. I think I would get the first thing I would always recommend is getting really, really clear on why you need investment, what for, what it will ideally do for the company.

40:26Grace Beverley: If you can't write those three things up, you're not ready to raise. And I think once you've written those three things down, I think that you can then become quite clear on, okay, what does this investment need to look like? would it ideally be one high net worth individual who can give us a little bit of advice sometimes but they're really just writing a check and we're then growing the company and we'll see where we are in a few years or do you want to be on essentially like a jetpack growth situation which can be very exciting also comes with just as much chaos as you'd imagine from being in jetpack growth and also a huge amount of paperwork, like all of these different things.

41:09Grace Beverley: And pressure, all of these different things. So I think it's like really about working that out. And then I would say it's about really refining your pitch deck and actually your ask overall and like who you are. You would not believe the amount of pitch decks I receive because I do personal investing as well, that I cannot tell from the first five slides of your deck what you are like who you are what you're doing and what this money is even doing like the i should not be having to dig through this i should not be having to essentially try and summarize elsewhere it should be very very clear should be there simply straight away and so i think that that is another thing and often the best way to do that is in the form of a pitch check it's great advice

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43:47I want to go back to that moment when you're talking about you're at university, you're posting on social media, and most people wouldn't be doing that because it was embarrassing. And it was you being judged, but you went against that. I know that full well because I did Made in Chelsea. I don't know if you... Very rubbish for that. Oh, yeah. But when I got asked to do Made in Chelsea, it was like everyone was saying, this is lame, don't do it. Why are you doing that? It was just not cool in any way. But I saw it as an avenue to achieve something else, sort of cheat code my way in. Yeah. Right?

44:22And I didn't care what other people thought. Weirdly, I didn't really care. And with you, it feels like the same. You care a lot what people think, but you also don't care what people think because you went and started posting stuff on social media.

44:34Grace Beverley: I think I did care. I think I really did care. I think I still wanted to belong and to make friends and for people to not think I was a massive loser. But I think simultaneously, I didn't care enough for it to stop me doing something that was quite clearly getting me things that I wasn't getting from elsewhere. So, for example, you know, I started this account when I was 18. I sold my first products within the first six months. Break that down for me. The account was called? Oh, the account was, well, I didn't post my face and it didn't have my name. Um, so that was just maybe a visualization of how embarrassed I was.

45:25Grace Beverley: Um, I think it was called Kayla Gbug because I was doing the Kayla Ibsenis workout plans. Okay. Um, naturally. And so I kind of posted that, as I said, didn't post my face, didn't post my name, was just kind of posting of my journey of trying to be, trying to stick to the gym as someone who really was very, very bad at doing so. So I just always like fall off to, yeah, I guess I would just try and stick to something for a few weeks and then I wouldn't be able to do all of that. So I started it as a kind of accountability page. Then within my first six months, I was like posting, I started working at IBM, which was where I worked for a year after school, just in their kind of school leavers slash placement year program.

46:12Grace Beverley: And so I started working there. I was essentially working very long days there, trying to prove that the corporate life was for me, which obviously went really well. But I was also then posting on Instagram in a way that started to grow. So I think I started to get a few thousand followers and that was really, really exciting. And I... exciting because it was feeding your that niggle that chip as well as everything it was feeding everything yeah yeah just just you know numbers yeah yeah this is great exactly i don't even know them why i don't know why it's great but i know that it's it's great it was making you feel good yeah it was making me feel good definitely um and so i i was like posting all of these recipes of like i like i have a massive sweet tooth so like healthier versions of brownies or banana breads or like whatever it might be.

47:03Grace Beverley: And I was posting these all the time, but because I was working the kind of classic corporate hours, I was every weekend, I was having to spend like hours and hours a day, basically making all these recipes and photographing them because in the, because in the winter, which is obviously most of the year in the UK, I, there was no daylight. So it was very important at that time to have a very bright, gorgeous Instagram. I even bought myself like a little food light box to be able to you know take good photos what year is this 2015 so this is way ahead of its time you're ahead of your time already I was posting pictures of my foot like I was really not I was in a niche for sure you were in that beginning stage yeah very very early on but so because I was spending so much time every weekend making these recipes and churning them out I kind of thought well what if I could sell them because this has taken me a huge amount of time and I was taking up all my weekends and I was working at IBM in the week and I was just like this is so much work um and so I basically put made two different ebooks called eat my Instagram almost definitely not allowed trademark wise um but there was a sweet one and there was a savory one and essentially they were five pounds each or you could pay eight pounds for two so I did that and then I remember over the next year I made a few hundred quid off that because I set up a Shopify I got their digital download thing so essentially anyone who purchased it just got emailed to them directly and I was like oh my god this is the greatest thing ever I don't even need to manually email everyone who's purchased and so set that up and then started like that year where I started really seeing differences was like when I put on like a 20 % off flash sale or when I'd say this is only available for the next 24 hours.

48:51Grace Beverley: So you were learning, you were just learning the whole time. Just learning by actually doing it and seeing what other people were doing. Yeah. And so I did that for the next year. And so I think by the point of even going to university, which was in October that following year, having made a few hundred extra quid, I was like, that's a solid amount of money. Like I was earning 18k a year because I was an intern at IBM and it was a paid internship in London and it was great. I felt like the richest person in the world. And I, to earn like a month's extra salary probably from the whole year on top of that, I just, I felt like I was printing money.

49:29Grace Beverley: Like I felt like it was amazing. So I think that by the time I got to the question of like, is this too embarrassing to continue? I was kind of like, well, essentially I am printing money when I do this because I am not like there's no marginal cost there's no cost for each extra product you're producing so i could tell to you and every single other person in this room and it costs me the same amount but i get obviously you get multiples on the profit and so i was just kind of like at that point i was like well i'm not really gonna give up my my money so i guess all of you are just gonna have to think i'm a loser like that's just like how it's gonna work um and so i think that by that point i'd kind of the trade-off just didn't add up for to for it to be too embarrassing to not continue i wouldn't give myself the credit of being like oh i just don't care what other people think i absolutely did and i continued to care for what other what other people think for for a very long time and still do but you were earning too much money to stop to stop what you're doing because you were because you didn't care enough what other people thought to stop doing that i think i think realistically yeah that was my that was my thought process being totally transparent i think it was kind of like well yeah you can think I'm weird doing this but at the same time I got 500 extra pounds in the past six months and is that what you would say to people no absolutely not you wouldn't say that you're really making me out to be a lot stronger than I am um no that's what we're going inside my internal 24 hours a day yeah exactly I'm having the invisible argument in my head that's amazing what you're achieving and what you're doing what you're building is phenomenal like truly is in that space and I'm incredibly inspired by you and I'm not just saying that and you keep turning up in a relentless way and I love that right I'm relentless and sometimes when you have relentless people other people are looking going they're doing it again like sit down like relax but that does lead to burnout and that does lead to those moments which are tricky and you know how do you balance that And when burnout hits, how do you get past and what does it feel like?

51:38Grace Beverley: I think I spent a good few years on the path to full burnout. Full, cannot get out of bed. Once locked myself in a room for a day without my phone and just did a jigsaw for the entire day. Because I was like, that is how on zero my brain is at the moment. That is real burnout. Fully burnt out. And I've had other times where it's kind of been similar and I've literally just been like, I, well, I've had two other times where I've literally woken up and been like, I physically, I physically can't do this. and the last time that happened was January last year so I and I think that that really started from when in like 2021 I restructured the whole of Tala and had like a huge legal battle to get out of the licensing agreement we were previously in restructured the entire business Tala nearly went bankrupt there was about probably three months where every single week I was wondering if we'd make payroll and just like chilling things to be able to like, you know, get that to happen at that point.

52:50Grace Beverley: I think at that point, that was where things like things never really got out of that burnout zone from then. So I think from, I had then five years after that point, or like four years after that point where I was kind of like teetering on the edge of burnout, but at the same time believed that in order to do my job, I needed to keep operating to the same capacity. And actually, I used to cry pretty regularly about the fact that I thought I would never be able to start my own family or take maternity leave to any extent because I would not be able to spend a single day out of the businesses. I literally have notes in my phone of being like, I'm never going to be able to do that.

53:32Grace Beverley: I'm never going to be able to have babies because I'm never going to be able to even spend a week out of the business. Like I can't even be ill. And so I think that was a real wake up call for me when in the space of two months, I had like two moments where I physically was like, I'm on zero. Like I'm worried that I'm like physically ill. That's how drained I am. Like I feel like I, you know, and I'd actually given myself adrenal fatigue or adrenal dysfunction. I think it was, I can't remember. But essentially where my cortisol had actually just like stopped working in the way that it should work.

54:03Grace Beverley: because I was so... Because you've been driving for so long. And so I think that since that point, that was a real wake-up call to kind of be like, okay, well, if this was all engineered to build you the life you want, this is clearly not the life you want. Like, yes, it might be some of the things you want down on paper, but it's clearly not the life you want because if you can't think about starting a family, if you can't think about taking your wedding offline, if you can't, as in taking the day, or a few days around that. If you can't think of all of these different things, then that is not the life you actually want.

54:38Grace Beverley: That's the life that you thought you wanted. And so since that point in the last year and nearly a half now, I have tried to change every single thing about how I work with the businesses to be able to give them the maximum efficacy and kind of help. I don't want to say help because they're very capable of doing their own job. but like the founder vision, like what you need from a founder and what you need from the operator job I was providing, whilst also stepping away to a helpful extent to be able to maintain everyone's autonomy, to be able to not be micromanaging. Like I was micromanaging for years because I was just trying to essentially make sure that I, you know, I didn't want to do things wrong.

55:26Grace Beverley: I didn't want to have a massive cancellation for the business on socials. I didn't want to, a single social post to go out without me seeing it or you know an event or a product or like whatever so it was across absolutely everything which is also not helpful to everyone within the business because no one could do their job without having you over their shoulder so I essentially a piece of advice someone had given me about six months before which I completely ignored was one of the best things you can do in this scenario is remove all of your approvals and see what breaks and pick them up and I said well I don't have the luxury of doing that because if something breaks, it's going to break on a big enough scale that I'm going to need to take responsibility for it and get the shit for it as I should as the founder and the owner and the public face and all of this.

56:12Grace Beverley: And I can't deal with that mentally right now because I'm so on the edge of burnout all the time. Like I'm so on the edge. And so I felt like I was like trapped in this need to see absolutely everything. And also that not being right for the business, also not being right for me but if I didn't see absolutely everything then how could I make sure that things weren't going to explode um but that's what I ended up doing in the end I ended up removing all of my approvals and picking back up the things that were genuinely helpful to the business and the people within the businesses um and I've actually started to be able to live my life like even at that point I wasn't even I wasn't even ovulating like my whole body had gone into like shutdown like I wouldn't have been able to even like I tried to change absolutely everything because I was just at the point where I was like, my body is shutting down from the amount I'm working and the amount of stress I'm under.

57:04Grace Beverley: And this is clearly not conducive, as I said, to the type of life I want to live. And then you're living your truth because your podcast, Working Hardly Working, right? Which is just amazing. Go and listen to it. Honestly, we're going to leave a link in the show description. Go and check it out. It's fantastic, right? And that sort of mantra is how we should really be living life, right? And you sort of weren't living true to that. A hundred percent. I think I thought that the... as long as you do the work side of things, like everything else falls into place because you are able to get yourself into situations where, I don't know, at least you can take an Uber home or like whatever it might be.

57:38Grace Beverley: And actually just when you, when I built this, I built this massive cage around me and my body was literally rebelling and I was miserable. Um, and I couldn't even do like, I couldn't come and do something like this, for example, in the middle of the day ever, because I was like, well, that's not going to work. And also if I did do anything, like I would go and speak at a conference and then work till 3am, just getting through specific approvals that I never needed to be on every single day. Like there was every single Friday, I'd keep meeting free and I'd sit down at my desk at like 7am and I would not stand up until like 10pm and I wouldn't have even made the dent.

58:15Grace Beverley: And that it just felt like this, yeah, I was on this massive path to burnout slash already there. But over the past year and a half, I've made significant changes and now I'm in a very different place. Your husband, he has a lot of fans online. Does he? Yeah. Where? Wait a second. What's he been doing? You posted and apparently everyone's like, who is this hot stuff? You guys met on a dating app. Yeah. The moment that you guys started messaging, right? And you started messaging, and the first time you met you flew to New York wasn't it? No that was not that not that on my toes Okay well explain what happened I'm just saying I have control issues Yeah You think I'm flying to New York?

59:03Grace Beverley: No we met in a July years ago and went on a first date then and then we he was living in New York at the time so he was in London for work and he was in London approximately once a month for work so we'd finally found a date kind of in the July. We'd matched a few months earlier, but just like our dates where he was in London, all of that kind of hadn't worked. And then, yeah, went on a really nice date. I thought, what a nice date. Then went away. Kind of just... You didn't think anything else? You weren't just like, oh... No, as in I thought he was lovely. Like as in I actually said it in my vows.

59:42Grace Beverley: The literal text I sent my friend after that was saying, yeah, he's really hot. I love that he lives in New York, so I can't fall in love with him, which is... kind of hilarious given his baby is now growing all up in here um so uh yeah and he then came back to London about a month and a half later went on another date then he was here for about 10 days so we went on kind of a few dates and by the end of that I was like oh shit I have been got um I was really not looking for a relationship at the time which I think actually had a big impact on me asking for enough in that relationship. I think traditionally in the, like, in the past, I definitely bent over backwards for people who wouldn't bend over backwards for me.

1:00:28Grace Beverley: Like, I think that that was, I'm a very high effort person. And so I would happily do that. And that was my love language and all of that. And I think that because I wasn't necessarily in the place where I was like wanting a relationship, I wasn't trying to be the person they liked. Like that wasn't my mo and like going into a date it wasn't kind of like exactly i was just being me and he showed from the beginning that he was also a high effort person and was very happy to show that he was into it and show that he was you know enjoyed our dates and all of this with absolutely zero gameplay which I which yeah I'm in but like for example you know one of our when he was in London the second time that kind of a week in and we'd been on like three dates within that week so we'd we'd had a um we'd had like such a lovely time and I was then moving house and I was I was moving to work that morning.

1:01:35Grace Beverley: And I remember I was on a date the night before with him and I, my dog sitter texted to basically say they'd cancelled and said, and I was like, oh shit, I was like, I've got the movers coming in the morning. I've also got to go to a meeting in the morning. So I'm leaving the movers in the house for me to go to a meeting on brand, come back and then, and then move into the flat. And I wanted the dogs out so that they're not running in and out the door, all of this, or the dog, sorry, there was only one at the time. and he just said he was just like he was like oh I'm not working tomorrow he was like I'll just I'll have him I'll have him and I was like oh you really don't need to do that and he was like no it's fine he was like I'll just I'll come round to yours in the morning I'll pick him up and I'll I'll just take him up for brunch and so he literally came round and took my dog for brunch while the movers were in the house I then come back as you whisper you were like I love you I love you and so i i came back acts of service oh yeah big on acts of service and he is big on acts of service and we got in like got in the moving van went to the flat he was like he was like i'll just help you move stuff all of this he helped me like set up all my furniture he helped me like there were the move there was like a problem with the moving bay so people were having to like go up loads of stairs like all of this there was a number of different things going on so he was doing like all the runs back and forth basically doing the removal for for everyone and then you know at one point he went down to go get more stuff from the moving bay and there was like a there was like a small shop like a kind of express shop and he did like a full weekly shop for you know just like the essentials just like you know you're washing up liquid you're all of that that I'm not going to have just having moved in like your toilet roll you're just very domesticated stuff and so he came back and I was like I was like what's that and he'd also bought like there was a little dog toy he brought my dog a little toy and he was just like he was like oh I just thought you'd need the essentials just saves you doing it later just like kind of not even not like this was a big thing and I was like that's what I would do for my friends as in like that is the approach I have like I like to make people's life easier and show them love by doing that and I was like how isn't that lovely yeah how attractive is that yeah it's so attractive and I think this is what men don't realize other men are trying to tell other men what is attractive to women right but actually if you listen to women yeah this is what is attractive well that required a lot of vulnerability too because say he does that and then i'm like anyway i'm not actually that into you but like thanks so much for the services today like that it's vulnerable but like we you have in order to get you have connection you have to have vulnerability and so i think it was just like those things at the beginning and i remember at the end of that day i was like oh god my friends are coming around for dinner at the new flat and i was kind of like i kind of need to kick him out but he's obviously helped me move all day but I was like I don't really want you at my girl's dinner so I just said to him I was like so tonight um I've got some friends coming around and he was like oh he was like he was like don't worry about it I'm going for dinner with my mum and I was like great perfect done with your mum as well oh wonderful and then just um woke up the next morning to these gorgeous flowers outside my apartment and I just thought well that's me done when you find a relationship where that happens it makes you realize that in life that you really should not settle a hundred percent and I think that was the real difference is I kind of and I think people often say this and it's so infuriating to hear is the kind of like when you'll know you'll know and it will come when you're least expecting it and like it will make you realize what shit you've been putting up with in the past genuinely that was fully my experience and it also let my barriers down in a way that he was leading with that kind of vulnerability and just being like, well, this is how I like to act in a relationship.

1:05:20Grace Beverley: So I'm going to act that way. If you reject me based on that or anything else, then that's fine because I'm still true to myself. Whereas like I definitely, particularly from past relationships had then got to a point where I was like, well, I'm not going to do any of this until you're this, this, and this. And actually because he was like that, I was then like, okay, perfect. Well, I can meet you in exactly how I like to be in relationships, which is actually very well matched because we're both very high effort people. And so I think that that actually, he gets credit for it working at the beginning because actually I think that you're going into the relationship as hey this is authentically me yeah and you're going by the way this is me here I am and if you think it's too much that's fine yeah because this is what I want to be in my ideal relationship because I think I'd I'd had a thing before where I'd essentially thought clearly my effort level doesn't match the type of people I like to go for and therefore I should bring that down, which is fair in certain scenarios.

1:06:17Grace Beverley: But I think in reality, what I needed to do was bring the effort level up of the people I was with. Because then how amazing if two of you are like high effort people, both trying to make each other's day great or life great. Like that is so ideal. Because it also means I can be like, I do some stupidly over the top stuff sometimes. Like I really like to do the types of things that will make him that happy and all of that. And I think in every past relationship, I just felt like it was too much. Wow. That's such a great example because what you want to do is you want to better each other's lives.

1:06:54So if you're constantly pushing each other's boundaries in like a positive way, you're kind of moving along life in the best way.

1:07:03Grace Beverley: Yeah. Well, they always, I think they, the psychologists, always say that the people with the best relationships are the people where they're both trying to be the 60 % or you know like when it's like sometimes it's 50 50 sometimes it's 60 40 sometimes it's 90 10 like if you're both trying to be the 60 % then it mitigates for times where actually one of you needs to be 10 % because you're going through something or you're having certain stress or like whatever it might be and then you never resent each other because when someone else's battery life is at 10 % you're like it's okay yeah because I know that you know what you do I know what you do on the other side of it and so therefore you're okay with that yeah and that is he when he proposed to you it was i think for some of the world's greatest like i was saw it seeing that and i was like that motherfucker he's really outshone everyone here he organized a fake trip for you yeah explain what happened well essentially he wanted to propose somewhere that would be special and exciting and kind of ideally wanted to do it abroad because I think he knew that I wanted it where we were away somewhere and we could just be in a bubble and all of this.

1:08:11Grace Beverley: But at the same time, he wanted to make sure it's something that he'd fully organised and kind of fully, you know, just like everything had been managed by him. He's a big organiser. He wanted to feel that this was a moment that he, because the proposal, if you're a guy I'm proposing, in my experience, you want to, this is my moment. This is it. Yeah, like this is, I'm the one showing all of this. And yeah, he's a big planner he believe it or not which is quite off brand for me he is the one who kind of like when i go to the airport with him i don't even know what airport we're at get out of here you relinquish control oh complete complete control oh yeah yeah i i could be blindfolded like amazing that's why i married the man um and but essentially he kind of wanted to make it like end to end something that he felt like was my perfect proposal but was also he also kind of was well aware of the fact that I'm a little bit, how do I say?

1:09:10Grace Beverley: Nothing gets past me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're a hard person to surprise. Exactly. And so I think he really wanted to make sure it was a surprise because I am never surprised. And so he'd reached out to my agent a few months before and essentially said, I'm going to pop the question. I need your help, essentially, being able to make this convincing enough. So they'd had conversations about it. They'd chosen a brand that we'd worked with before, but not so much that I had like a super close relationship and I would, you know, maybe message them all of theirs. Got like the invitations done, sent a message.

1:09:43Grace Beverley: But like before the even invite was confirmed, there was like a one month before lead of like, by the way, just to check, if this comes through, would this be something you'd be interested in? Which is quite regular in this world. Oh, just had a meeting with Armani, just wanted to double check if this is something you'd be interested in. Armani as well, he went for it. Lovely. um and so yeah so that came through and so I was like yep no would love to do that um and then the actual invite came through and everything was done so perfectly to the point that I actually went kind of insane in the lead up because I had this I just had these spidey senses essentially telling me that this was going to be the proposal through no fault of his own the poor man um I just woken up one morning at like 5am and be like, it's on that trip.

1:10:34Grace Beverley: Like he's going to propose on that trip. And I don't know what I'd picked up on because it was so, it was so well thought out. And then I was like checking back on all the details and everything was so perfectly done that I was like, there's no way that this is not the trip because we've got all of the different assets. We've got the like contract come through. We've got like all of the, just like all of, it was so watertight anyway then the the real kind of final thing that made me think no you're this is definitely a brand trip was that the night before we were leaving I was trying on all these different outfits because there was this like big gala dinner and I essentially said you know I've got nothing to wear and like I don't like anything and all of this and he was literally he was like you're never like this about brand events it was it was just like it was like it's it's just a brand dinner you can go you don't even need to take pictures if you don't like it like you don't look me dead in the eyes great cow and he literally like was just like there's just you know like you don't usually act like this and and so i was like yeah no fine and i was like okay well it's definitely not a proposal then because he's just like lied to my very face slightly disappointed Yeah, exactly.

1:11:46Did you feel slightly, you were like, ah, I did.

1:11:49Grace Beverley: I was like, oh, well, that's a lot of adrenaline for nothing. I've just got my nails done. And then flew out. He'd done everything perfectly. There was full, there was Armani product everywhere in the room. There were these, like, it had been done, like, perfectly. We'd arrived at the hotel. They'd had briefing calls. So, like, they arrived. They go, are you here for the Armani event? All of this. Like, they clearly knew who we were, like, what we looked like. Like they sat us down in the, like when we were checking in and they go like, yep, so the event is down there later, all of this. And so I was like, oh, watertight.

1:12:23Grace Beverley: It's flown out an Armani makeup artist to do my makeup in the room. And then so I was obviously stalking her stories because I was like, well, what's she posting? On her stories, there's a video of the hotel going here with Armani for their event. Everyone is in on this. Because I'm then like, oh, well, come on, like this is too much. and so um I'm then getting ready and I say to him I'm like oh it doesn't say because the itinerary's in the in the room like beautiful gorgeous paper I'm like this is obviously branded um and it says all of the different things but it didn't say the location for the drinks that we were going to and I said can you phone down and ask where the drinks are because it's not on the thing and he goes yeah no worries he goes into the bathroom uses that silly little bathroom phone who uses the phone when they're taking a shit anyway he literally is like on the phone and he's like hi can you just tell me we're here for the Armani event could you just tell me um where the drinks are has this whole fake phone conversation obviously he knows where we're going and then um we take the lift down and I'm like rubbing up against him because I'm trying to work out if there's like a ring in his pocket still at this point I'm like not dropping it the OCD is really coming out literally I'm like shimmying against him um and then we yeah then we get down there and then he um we're like down in the front of the hotel this beautiful setup in the background and then he he's like oh would you like a few photos here and takes a few photos and then he hands me back the phone I'm like that's not usually the amount of photos you'd give me usually I'm getting at least 60 more I'm like this is far too few and then he like comes and stands by me and there was a hat on the floor um which was obviously the place that the photographer had put like this is where you should stand because the photographer was hidden in the bushes um and so I I was like standing there and I kind of like gave him back my phone to be like more please it's like that's three photos like you think i'm gonna get my photo from that absolutely not and handed it back to him um and then he just literally started his proposal speech with um don't be mad it's like but it was like i'd really like to marry you and then um yeah proposed and it was so watertight everything was so good and they'd he'd like talk to the hotel they'd stopped anyone else walking outside in that moment so it's literally like completely clear in the background just like every single detail it's very much who he is one thing i i i i did see which is can i ask is um which i think is a is a great thing to talk about which is prenups oh yeah it's it seems like a taboo term that we don't talk about in america very open about it yeah and i saw you speak about it very openly which i thought was a great thing to chat about where are you at with that what do you think about prenups well i'm in the same place thankfully nothing's being used um essentially i just we actually did an in-depth podcast on it um with vivian too who's like your rich bff online she's amazing we love and she one thing she said that's really stuck with me is like you're signing a contract anyway you might as well like when in any other scenario do you just accept the contract and just go like okay well this is the one we're signing like okay maybe a small little disclaimer to get a facial but like other than that like not your entire life and like all just all of this stuff so you might as well design your own contract it doesn't need to I think people think of prenups and they're like oh well it's going to be like this and it's going to be like this and actually we're two people who've got to very exciting points in our careers who've entered a marriage each with assets why don't we have a conversation when we're getting on really well as to what this would look like if we no longer be together and you're signing that contract anyway.

1:16:02So I think it's just a good prenup should protect both of you.

1:16:07Grace Beverley: We'll say they're not well upheld in the UK and you have to refresh them when any big change happens. So any asset change, a baby, a house change, all of these different things, and still they likely don't fully stand up. But I'm sure that will change at some point soon because it's quite antiquated. But essentially, I just think that particularly women need to be comfortable having conversations about finances in a way that has often been seen as so taboo and for so long has been seen as so taboo. And I refuse to go into that.

1:16:48Hey, Yetis, this is Nick and Jack from the Best One Yet podcast. Now, the last company we worked at, they used Paylocity and everything just worked. It wasn't until launching our own media business, this show, that we realized how rare that is. Because Paylocity is one delicious burrito of operational needs. They roll up HR, finance, and IT seamlessly into one delicious bite. When everything wraps together like that all at once, your workforce, your tech stack, your business, you don't need more tools. You don't even need cilantro. You need one solution. And that is why Paylocity built a single platform to connect HR, finance, and IT with AI-driven insights and automated workflows that simplify the complex and power of what's next.

1:17:25Or as we call What a delicious operational burrito. Yes, we do. Experience a one place for all your HCM needs, besties. So start now at paylocity.com slash one. Paylocity.com slash O-N-E. Hi, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and this episode is sponsored by Experian Boost. Summer glow up? Check. Credit glow up? Even better. Boost your credit scores instantly by getting credit for bills you're already paying. Your phone, utilities, rent, and insurance. I wish dating kind of worked like that. Connect your bank account, add those on-time payments to your Experian credit file, and your FICO score updates right away.

1:18:04You could instantly raise your FICO score by an average of 14 points with Experian Boost. Download the Experian app for free today. Results will vary. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points. See App Store or Experian.com for details. Results will vary. Not all payments are Boost eligible. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score rate from Experian by an average of 14 points. Some may not see improved scores or approval odds. Not all lenders use Experian credit files, and not all lenders use scores impacted by Experian Boost. See Experian.com for details.

1:18:40Grace, listen, thank you so much. You are just amazing in every single way. We'd like to end the conversation with eight quickfire questions. Are you ready for this?

1:18:47Grace Beverley: No. What's the saying or phrase that makes you smile and cheers you up? Should we get some food? Love that. best compliment anyone's ever given you um we can pass yeah pass sorry I'll think about it no worries I have this thing where I need to think about something I won't think about anything that's the only time I think about like nothing's going on in my brain you can message me later yeah perfect what scares you most about yourself inability to slow down when was the last time you cried oh on Sunday because we were walking outside and it was 35 degrees and in case it's not very obvious I'm heavily pregnant and it was too hot and I felt really uncomfortable so I cried.

1:19:25So far. What's something you can't let go of? Coffee? Wine? Well, no, I've had to give up coffee

1:19:33Grace Beverley: because I still can't stand the taste, being pregnant. But actually, no, that is quite a good one because I still try and get a coffee most weeks and I get it and I spend, obviously, a mortgage on it because we're in London and then I have one sip and I have to throw it away and I'll go to a nice place as well. I like that. What's your guilty pleasure? Oh, I'm big on reality TV. Yeah, that's the best. 100%. What turns you off? I don't like mean people. Yeah, I'm with you. I really don't. Like, as in, I don't like being mean for no reason. I don't like trying to make other people feel shit. Feel small.

1:20:03Grace Beverley: I'm with you. I just, I don't like it. I don't like seeing it. I don't like seeing it online. I don't like, like, for other people, I think that, like, sometimes you go to people's comment sections, you're like, people are so mean. Oh, have a field day on mine. Go and check out mine. Oh, perfect. Thank you. What turns you on? Acts of service. Yeah. Big proposal in France. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you like most about yourself?

1:20:36Grace Beverley: I do a lot for the people I love and I'm very thoughtful. I love that. Grace, thank you. You're incredible. You're amazing. You're beautiful in every single way and I really appreciate you spending time with me. You were great company. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. You're welcome. They're going to give me a hug. You are amazing. It's going to take me a second. Just get off.

1:21:07Hey, Yetis. This is Nick and Jack from the Best One Yet podcast. Now, the last company we worked at, they used Paylocity and everything just worked. It wasn't until launching our own media business, this show, that we realized how rare that is. Because Paylocity is one delicious burrito of operational needs. They roll up HR, finance, and IT seamlessly into one delicious bite. When everything wraps together like that all at once, your workforce, your tech stack, your business, you don't need more tools. You don't even need cilantro. You need one solution. And that is why Paylocity built a single platform to connect HR, finance, and IT with AI-driven insights and automated workflows that simplify the complex and power of what's next.

1:21:44Or as we call it, a delicious operational burrito. Yes, we do. Experience a one place for all your HCM needs, besties. So start now at paylocity.com slash one. Paylocity.com slash O-N-E. Hi, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and this episode is sponsored by Experian Boost. Summer glow up? Check. Credit glow up? Even better. Boost your credit scores instantly by getting credit for bills you're already paying. Your phone, utilities, rent, and insurance. I wish dating kind of worked like that. Connect your bank account, add those on-time payments to your Experian credit file, and your FICO score updates right away.

1:22:23You could instantly raise your FICO score by an average of 14 points with Experian Boost. Download the Experian app for free today. Results will vary. Users who received a boost improved their FICO score 8 from Experian by an average of 14 points. See App Store or Experian.com for details. Results will vary. Not all payments are Boost eligible. Users who received a Boost improved their FICO score rate from Experian by an average of 14 points. Some may not see improved scores or approval odds. Not all lenders use Experian credit files. And not all lenders use scores impacted by Experian Boost. See Experian.com for details.