ITALIANBACH: GOING VIRAL IS JUST UNDERSTANDING HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY

0:28Hey, it's Adam Grant from WorkLife, a podcast from TED. software, you'll work smarter, not harder. Freshworks uncomplicates. Learn more at Freshworks.com.

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2:08Grainger, for the ones who get it done.

2:39Jemima Jemima It's me. I say, this is Jemima. And I said, this is Jamie. Oh, yeah. So you're the producer. Let me just put it straight. The female voice you're hearing... Me. ...is the producer Jemima. The male voice you're hearing right now is me, Jamie, the host of the show. I was thinking about this the other day. It's quite good that we have, like, our tones are quite different. Because I listened to a podcast the other day. It was presented by three women. And I couldn't tell the difference. It's hard. It was the first time I'd listened. Once you get to know the characters, you're like, oh, that's that one, that's that one.

3:10But for a good while, I was like, I can't tell the difference between these women's voices. Do you think people know the difference between us? I hope they do. They do. They do. Hey, you can't. Today's guest. Oh, so exciting, but I cannot say his name. You can't pronounce his name. So what do you think his name is? I read it and I think I've probably corrected people and said, it's actually Italian Bach. It's not Italian Bach. I think like the composer, Bach. But what is it? Try it. What do you think it is? Well, then I think Italian Bach. I'm saying Italian Bach. No, his name is Italian Batch.

3:41Right. Okay. So, aka, his real name is Isaac Smith. I'm just going to call him Isaac. Just call him Isaac. But his social creator name is Italian Batch. Lots of you listening right now may not have social media, may not have TikTok, may not be into creators, but a lot of you listening will be. And if you are into TikTok and social media, you'll know exactly who Italian Batch is. Isaac is the creator behind some of the funniest content. So good. On the internet. It is amazing. And he's a real grafter. I've seen him grow from super, with no one I was following from the very beginning to where he is now with millions and millions of followers on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok.

4:22He's incredible. And I wanted to get him on firstly because I'm a fan, but secondly, because I want to know the mindset behind building a platform like that and building an audience. What drives you to do that? You know, the constant treadmill of being on that sort of situation is a lot. So I'm so intrigued to find out everything in his mind. Yeah, it's all self-made. And the interesting thing is in terms of the notes, they weren't very lengthy notes because we don't know notes about Isaac Smith. So I'm really excited to find out more about him as well. I can't wait to come on. I'm so intrigued in this space.

4:56And I think for anyone who is thinking about becoming a creator who wants to know about being in that space, this is an episode for you because he is on the rise at the moment. Yeah, or if you just like his stuff and want to know... About the character. About the character and like where the ideas come from because there's just so many and they're all very funny. It's so funny. Okay, are you ready for this? I'm really ready. Oh, by the way, if you haven't subscribed to our show, please do. Also, let us know in the comments what you think of the show and you can find us on Instagram at greatcompanypodcast or you can send us an email greatcompany at jampopproductions.co.uk.

5:28Everything is in the show description. Are you ready for this? Yep. Enjoy this episode of Italian Batch. Yes. A.K.A. Isaac Smith on Great Company. Hi, I'm Italian Batch and I'm either Great Company or in Great Company.

5:47My friend tells me the story, right? He had a panic attack when he was at school. We're professional. I sent him off now. That's my friend Triggered something My friend at school had a panic attack Because he got made a prefect And what he was doing is He made the prefect And at school when you were made a prefect At the school that we're at It was a surprise So you didn't know you were becoming a prefect And so it was announced in front of the school So it was a big moment And as he walked up He had a jumper in front of his crotch And the reason was He didn't realise he was in there And he got an erection for no reason.

6:31Pure excitement. Pure excitement. Oh my God. And he didn't know what to do. So he put a jumper. Just made it more obvious. Just draw attention to it. He put a jumper over it as he walked up. And he had a panic attack because everyone went, what are you doing with your jumper? Oh no. So he's there with a boner just panicking. Just been announced to prefect as well. And he's like, oh my God. I can't believe it. That's terrible. It's actually the worst way. It's the worst thing to happen ever. Did people catch on that he had a boner? Oh, I think they probably did. I don't really know. He then sort of had a panic attack and he went out and it was just really...

7:05Did you ever have anything really embarrassing happen to you growing up? That sort of slings to mind. You go like, God, that moment.

7:14Well, at the time, I didn't think it was embarrassing. But my mum revealed that it was embarrassing after the fact. We had like a talent show and I was going to do magic, which is a cool thing to do at a talent show. But my friends had... had decided they were going to do magic as a duo. So I was like, okay, well, I need to go solo now. I need to go big. And so I did animal noises and all the parents were just there watching. And I'm there just going through like frog, pigeon, eagle, just doing these. I did them for about two minutes. Um, I, I thought I did really well. I find out 10 years later, my mom was just in the crowd.

7:49Like, Oh my God, this is awful. And apparently all the parents were like, what is going on. This is horrific. Sorry to cut you off, but I just... So just bring yourself back there. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm there. And you're there. You're on stage in front of everyone. And your frog noises go.

8:08Believe it or not, I haven't done it in a while.

8:13Wait. That's not as good as it can be.

8:23It's a little bit like that. A little bit... Okay. And it's good high energy for a stage production. It's good high... And there's no mic as well, so no one can really hear it. Okay. And then you went into your... You must have thought that was like a warm-up. Yeah, that was a warm-up, that one. And then you went into... What else are you going to next? I think I went Wood Pigeon after that. Good one, yeah. It's a classic to go to. Obviously. Obviously. Which is like a...

8:55just quickly did you think about your set before did you did you yeah no i had them ready i had them ready and then after wood pigeon what would it be uh then i did cat and dog so cat yeah uh yeah well it's gotten worse over the years not as good as wood pigeon wood pigeon was my speciality no give me another chance still not as good it's right in my ears as well I can feel it's nearly there yeah it's just right on the tip of my tongue I was a lot better at that at the time I haven't been warming up did you and what was the crescendo that was eagle which has gone seriously downhill hill now. I'll give it a go.

9:42But if it's bad, just pretend it didn't happen, okay? Because I have to put quite a lot of energy into this.

9:55I probably see it was better at the time. There was more throat to it. Now it's a bit breathy. And the crowd erupted. It was incredible. The parents loved it. They really did. Well, I thought they did at the time. Apparently not. How old were you, can I ask? Oh, probably about 12, I think. So good prime age. Yeah, probably should have been singing or dancing or something. Just not even on stage. Could have passed up. A lot of people passed up on the talent show. I was like, no, this is good enough. I'm going up there. But I wasn't embarrassed at the time. Yeah, that's good. That's the main thing.

10:34you know it felt good oh my god i say i need it before okay before we get into anything right so i'm calling you isaac which is your name is isaac smith yeah but you're better known for your internet personality which is italian batch italian batch yeah or batch and what's so amazing is that we've never actually met no no but for some reason i don't know why maybe it's because I'm such a fan of yours, is that as soon as you walked in, I felt immediately connected to you. I know, you chased me down the stairs. I know. I actually haven't had that before with anyone. Oh, really? I swear to God, I promise you, on this show, I will never lie.

11:15I'll just be honest. I've never had that before. I honestly, for some reason in my head, I thought I knew you. I've never met you. Yeah. But I've just seen every single one of your videos. You're probably sick of my face. No, not at all. Do you have that with a lot of people? Is that what happens with the sort of following that you have, that people really feel like they know you? I do feel like a lot of interactions I have with viewers, they're always really good. And they do. I had one the other day, actually, and they were like sort of outweirding me. And I thought, oh, this is great. Like she came over, she was like, hello, my lady.

11:49I was like, what? Now I don't know how to react, because usually that's my line. I don't know how to go. I don't know where to go from there. So what did you do? My lord, obviously. obviously couldn't let her do it herself and I had to sort of step back and think what am I doing right now but they do seem to yeah they just seem to be more comfortable as if they do know me which is nice it's always nice when you have like a interaction like that it is nice when was the first video that you made and you put it up and what was it The first videos I started making was with a friend. I was like seven years old.

12:33We started making a lot of videos on Facebook. We were watching I'm a Celeb, and we would just recreate, like pretend to be Anton Deck, and then we'd edit it so it looked like an I'm a Celeb episode. And then we started doing scooter montages. What is scooter montage? Like just stunts on the scooters. Montage that, upload that. And this is all to YouTube? Yeah, this was on YouTube. So this would have been in 2007? Yeah, yeah, a long time ago. Because you were born 2000, right? Yeah. Okay. And then I turned up at his house. I spent a lot of time at his house. He spent a lot of time at my house because our mums were best friends.

13:05And I turned up and I was wearing a pink t-shirt. He was wearing a pink t-shirt. And we decided to start a channel called The Pink Bros where we would just dance. And we must have uploaded like five videos of us dancing. We don't know how to dance. Never did. Still don't. Then after that, I made like gaming videos. I'd play Roblox and like put out tutorials and stuff like this. and then after that uh he moved away i moved away and i think i uploaded again when i got to 12 years old i i uploaded a video called pineapple war which is still out there that's that's the oldest video that's still online yeah and it's me just cutting a pineapple to uh labyrinth and it's really dramatic and and um that i know and every time i uploaded a video i thought this is going to go viral yeah and it just and it never did but it didn't stop me and then i i made a video um when i was in school a big thing for me was not to make videos in school because i didn't i didn't want people to think it was uncool so i made a video where i was like cutting up a pineapple no no no not not i was cutting up a pumpkin this time yeah and i made the video everything i never put it out i did another thing where i did like an ice bath with friends and never put that out and then it wasn't and then i had like a an eight-year break until i then started doing content again when tiktok was about not an eight year probably like a six-year break because that was like my school years and i was like i don't want to upload anything while i'm in school because it's it felt embarrassing why did you think chopping up a pineapple to labyrinth would be a hit i don't know you don't know at the time labyrinth what song was um earthquake Oh yeah.

14:45Yeah. Of course. Of course, yeah. Sorry. I predict an earthquake. Sorry. How does it go again? I predict an earthquake up in here. You know the one. Yeah, I know the one. And where did you start on the pineapple? So, well, actually, you know the pineapple cutters that you spin around? Oh yeah. That was, obviously that was in my bedroom in my chest. So I'd film myself getting it out, spinning it like, yeah, this is the weapon. Walking downstairs. But I didn't understand cuts yet. So I'd film myself walking downstairs from loads of different angles. But it was like a minute total of me walking down the stairs.

15:16And I'd be walking down, I get to a point, and then the next scene, I'm still walking down. The next scene, I'm still walking down. You were an artist. Yeah. At the time, I was really proud of that. YouTube was a weird space where something like that could do well. Because it wasn't very saturated. And, well. Did you study YouTube? Because it's what I find so... What I've realized, right, about life is... Okay, my co-host on Ready One is someone called Vic Hope. which is made of Calvin Harris. Yeah. The international DJ. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? He, what I found out with him is that he basically just sat in his room just studying music.

15:56It's not just your, hey, I want to be like, you know, just a DJ. You actually, he studied it. And a lot of successful people have realized, actually, you study it. You look at Mr. Beast. He studied, studied YouTube. Did you study it and understand it? Well, I grew up like that was my main thing. I'd watch YouTube. again with the older sister thing they'd be watching shows that i wouldn't want to watch like they'd put on scrubs and stuff like that and i didn't quite understand it so as much as i'd enjoy doing that i'd more enjoy watching youtube because i could pick the youtuber and i have control over my ipod or whatever it was yeah so i grew up watching youtube um and when i realized i wanted to be a youtuber i'd start idolizing these specific people and then like who um there's been a few like a lot of prank couples so i thought i would uh this this prank couple called nikita banana 88 and I would think, okay, I'm going to do pranks.

16:45And then the Janoskians came out, an Australian group. And I was like, okay, that's what I want to do. And then like TGF bro and the Sidemen, obviously, and Mr. Beast, even that wasn't too long ago when I first started deciding, okay, I'm going to post to YouTube and I'm going to make it work. I went back and I watched every single one of his videos to see how he did it. And I did the same with Ryan Trahan. I went back to the beginning of his content, I watched his progression. because I thought if I mirror what they did and at what point they switched up their content and I mirror that but put my own style on it, then I would see the same results.

17:23And like any... That's amazing. Any podcast that Mr. Beast has been on, I would have watched it because I was like, okay, this guy really understands it. And I would just absorb the information. But I found it interesting. Even if YouTube wasn't my job or TikTok wasn't my job, I'd still be obsessed with it. I think it was one of those obsessions that really stuck for me. It's an obsession that you felt like you loved it. Yeah. So what did you notice about everyone? So if you look at those YouTubers, what was the sort of formation that they did in order to get successful? So it's like, because the problem is like a lot of people look at a YouTuber now when they're already established and they'll think, okay, whatever video they post now, I'll try and mimic that and I'll have the same success.

18:04But they only have success now with those videos because they already have the following. So no matter what, that video will do well. But if you go back and look at the videos when they had zero subscribers and no one was watching them, you've got to realize what they did to get the subscribers and get people watching them. And so I would just go through and I make reaction content now, whereas Mr. Beast is doing these huge videos. So I look back to when he was doing reaction style content and I'll see what he was doing and why it worked. And I'll apply that to now. And then I just see myself as just a few years behind the people that are doing better than me.

18:39And you just mimic what they were doing back then. And it works a lot better. Fuck. History is our playbook for the future. 100 % of this. Yeah, exactly. And people don't realize that. And I think people forget that taking it. You're so right. You've nailed it with that. That people are following. People make a huge mistake. They follow people now, what they're doing now. So, oh, we make these type of suites. They need to follow us now. No, they should look like what we were doing 15 years ago, 13 years ago, right? Or with YouTube, looking at people now because they're successful, we need to copy that video.

19:09No, you look back at what they were doing to begin with and follow that playbook. So then you grow your audience slow. Yeah, exactly. Because if you look at what they're doing now, they've done all the hard work. This is the easiest stuff now. So they don't have to optimize what they're doing because they know they're in a position where what they do will do well. My videos now are very different from the very beginning because I knew I had to draw in an audience, whereas now I have an audience and these platforms will naturally push my videos more because they're getting engagement already. So you do have to switch up what you're doing as you grow with your channel.

19:47And the beginning is the hardest because how do you convince someone to watch your video over someone who is already successful? You're selling a product. How do you swap it over? How do you make sure someone stops and then come over to you? Yeah, exactly. exactly so I would I think um there's when you put out a piece of content there's like two parts you've got the idea and the execution explain that to me so say if you apply it to TikTok one of my concepts like um like the old man character that would be the idea and the execution is how I I do that I could give someone starting out an idea that I know if I were to film would do well but it's whether they execute it right and if they don't execute it right that's that's where the problem is.

20:31So if you're putting out content now and it's not doing well, it's either the idea that's the issue or the execution that's the issue. And so in the beginning of YouTube, when I'd look back, I'd see that a lot of creators in the beginning, say I'm doing reaction stuff, the stuff they're reacting to has to be really, really interesting. That has to bring someone in because they don't care about you. So the idea is what's important there. So I would bring in these videos that no one else has done. It's really interesting to watch by itself if I don't exist. And I would just make sure that I execute it in a way where I'm adding value.

21:10So someone's like, actually, I came for the video he's reacting to, but he's actually kind of funny, so I'll stick around. You've nailed it, man. My big thing is that basically people are too arrogant to be good on social media. Because everyone thinks that if a video doesn't do well or a clip doesn't do well or a picture doesn't do well, it's like, well, why not? No, it's because people don't care. They don't care about you. So if your content is very selfish, no one's going to care. You need to make stuff that appeals to the mass. So someone, I always say on our team, when we do like videos or whatever, I always say, but hang on a second, if someone doesn't know who Jamie or Sophie is or who I am, why the hell are they going to watch this?

21:47Unless they're dedicated fans to us, they're not going to give a shit. It's fascinating. You need the content that applies to an audience who don't know who you are. If you're always like doing the content that you know, like if I were to keep posting TikToks, I think my followers are going to love this, then I will slowly fall off because new people don't care. Like you, you, you got to understand that you're not as important as you think you are in the content. It's the idea and the execution. And if you keep on top of those and keep making sure you're getting better and better and better, then people will watch and enjoy it.

22:23That is an amazing outlook on it because I sort of feel that that's the issue that sort of happened with the sort of content space is that everyone wants to be, everyone's kind of maybe doing it for the, everyone wants to be famous. And that is the wrong thing. If you go, it's like when you set up a business, if you're going into a business because you want to make money, you're going to fail. Yeah. Because it's not, it's like making money is the byproduct of something that you're creating, right? That's the end goal. Exactly. But it's not the be on end. You're going to lose a lot of time and money and stress, all those different things.

22:56And I think it's exactly the same with content creation. You can't think, I just want to be famous because then you're not going to execute what you need to do. Exactly. And I think that's one of the most important things you can say as well. Because if so many people will start YouTube because they see the money and the fame that might come along with it, but the first two years, no one's going to watch your videos. And so you will give up. But if you start YouTube like I did, because I love YouTube, I'd do it if it wasn't my job, then you're so relentless with it you're uploading past that period where people aren't watching you until people start to to find you discover you and then they're watching you and and so if you start for the right reasons you it will work but if you start because you want the end product you're never going to get to the point where you enjoy that

23:49what were you like as a kid i want to take you all the way back what were you like were you an outgoing kid? Were you an introvert? Were you an extrovert? What were you like? I think I was definitely, I was an introvert. I was very anxious as a child. Really? Yeah. So I was an introvert, sort of clung to mom. And yeah, I had like a, so I've got three sisters, two are older and my oldest is really outgoing, really funny. And so she was always like the funny one, looked up to that sort of thing. And just eventually over the years, I sort of just became more extrovert, but even now I'd say I'm an introvert.

24:20Okay, so that's so funny The same as my sister So I had a sister who was maybe 8 to 10 years old She's amazing, she's so cool And she like, I remember She would throw, maybe she's a little, maybe 12 years old And she would always have like boyfriends Who like I thought were like the coolest guys in the world I remember this one time when she threw a party She threw a party at our house We lived in the countryside And I must have been what, 6 years old, right? And I feel like 6 years old you shouldn't really be conscious of what's going on. But because you have older siblings, you become more conscious of like what makes people cool, which is quite a weird sort of thing to have.

25:00And I remember she threw a party in the house with all these people and her room was up in the attic and they would come down the stairs past my bedroom. And for the whole evening, I just lay in bed like this. Just sitting up in bed. Just hoping they'd peek in your eye. And one person said, what do you do? I went, nothing, just chilling. I was like six years old You're like just chilling Not doing anything Just chilling What do you want me to join you guys You need another guy down there That's insane It's insane That's so cool though It must have been her 18th birthday Because it was crazy But it did It made me as well feel I don't know It made me feel Maybe insecure I don't know why So you had that Yeah More like just Well in general I think I was just, just had anxiety.

25:52It sort of came from my mom anyway. So my mom was more introverted, I'd say. And so I just sort of followed what she did. And so that's just how I, whereas Kira, my older sister, was like the cool older sister. She was more rebellious and stuff like that. But then I'd see how, where rebellion gets you. And I was like, okay, well, I won't do that. And so I would just sort of just keep to myself and be that sort of child. I still had a great child. I still had loads of fun and it was more just like I didn't like going out in like public places. It's more like socially anxious. Yeah, that sort of thing.

26:24But content really helped me to get through that sort of thing. And although I'm an introvert, I'm happy going out and doing stuff like this and extrovert things. It's not an issue anymore. But at the time, it felt like, yeah, it's just things I didn't want to do, you know. What kind of things make you anxious then? It was like big crowds and stuff like that. So if my dad wanted to take me to football, I didn't want to go because it was, I knew it would be like full of big rowdy crowds. And that's not the sort of thing. I didn't like meeting new people, like parties. If I knew, say a friend invited me to a party, but he had a different friendship group, I wouldn't really be comfortable there because I didn't know anyone else and I didn't like to mingle.

27:03Whereas now it's a, I'm at a place where I'm fine meeting new people. I really think I had that as well. I don't know. Because I, God, I mean, honestly, the audience is probably bored of me saying this. So, I mean, but I went to boarding school at eight. I mean, and I say it so many times. But I remember being, one of my core memories as a kid is when I was sent to nursery for the first time and I was crying so much. And then one of the teachers, Mrs. Gillian, still remember, she said, don't worry, come get the milk with me. And so we went and got the milk. And I was obviously this anxious kid as well.

27:34Like, it's like an anxious attachment stuff. You just, I didn't want to leave my mom. Yeah. Yeah. I had the exact same thing. Yeah. So I basically, how mine would manifest, I used to get a lump in my throat. Yeah. And I felt like I couldn't swallow. And so I was like, oh, what's that? And obviously it was anxiety, didn't know what it was as a kid. Yeah. And then I sort of, it didn't really pop its head up that much until I was around like 22 years old. And then I had a panic attack and then it really popped its head up in a big way. And then I just did silly things like drank to get through it and which really didn't help.

28:02I found better ways of dealing with it. But the acceptance, as you said, is the big thing. Yeah. Once you accept that's your makeup and that's who you are, that's kind of really helps. Yeah, yeah. But that took me ages. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, as soon as you put a label on it, it's like, okay, I didn't want it. Like you'd be feeling the same things, whether you call it anxiety or not. But the fact that you put a label on it would make me feel like, oh, that's, that's not as cool. That's not something I can help now. Yeah. You know what I mean? So what were you at school? Were you, were you a popular kid or no?

28:32Yeah, I was fairly popular. And I didn't really struggle at school because once you know everyone, it's fine. And I had a good group of friends and I think I was well-liked by a lot of people. And I was fairly sporty. I was in the sports teams and stuff like that. It was more when it came to things outside of school. Like if my friends, like when it came to going out, we became the age where people would go clubbing. I'd be like, not for me really. It would make me feel anxious. So that's the sort of thing. What age is this? What age were you doing now? 12? No. It was boring. It was like when you hit 18, then they start going clubbing.

29:07So, and at that age, I was like, it's just not, not for me. I just, I know I'm going to feel anxious there. So not something I want to do. Good on you, man. You had a real sense of self. You knew exactly what you were like. Yeah. And I stuck to it and I'm glad I did rather than, because there would be times where I'd go along with something because I'd be like, I don't want to be boring here. But then I'd really not enjoy it. And I'd make a mental note and I'd be like, okay, well, I'm just going to set a boundary that I'm not going to do that because I know I'm not going to enjoy myself. That's really mature

29:37It's the end of the podcast That's really mature But man it is Because okay Like It's tricky right for me Because you do the stage performance right Where you do all the animals And things like that So you clearly Maybe You like being on stage And performing So you like that part But then If you think about the psychological About it But then also I really wanted to be popular And really wanted to be there You almost were so comfortable in yourself. You didn't really care about that because you knew that was bad for you. But you would also go onto stage and perform because you sort of loved it.

30:09So you had a real sense of self in a sense. I think I like what I liked to do and still do is I like to be an entertainer. And so the performance things and being in front of a crowd, not really. And I could talk in front of a class and it wouldn't be an issue. I don't know if it's like I would create unrealistic scenarios in my head that going out would be dangerous. or like I didn't like roller coasters. I love roller coasters now, but at the time I was like, no, I could stop breathing on a roller coaster and I'd be like, that's me done. And I'd go to, I went to, in Little Hampton, they had the waltzes and I went on the waltzes once and I thought I was dead.

30:45And I got off and I was like, oh, I'm never doing that again. I was dead for five seconds. I'm sure of it. Because I just couldn't breathe. What do you mean? You thought you were dead? You couldn't breathe? They're spitting me so fast. I couldn't take air in quickly. Like the air was coming too quick at my face to take it in. And I was like, I'm never doing that again. That is bad for me. Maybe it was like a protective thing of my own life. I thought everything was a risk of life when it wasn't really. Even the waltzes.

31:14Even now, I won't actually go on the waltzes because I'm like, well, better not risk it. Just in case. Yeah, what's going on? It's like when you stick your head out of a window and you're like, I can't breathe through that. That's coming too quick. Have you ever been to Winter Wonderland in London? They had this... It was years ago. I still convinced I went to the first ever Winter Wonderland. Oh, really? I'm just convinced. I'm actually convinced. What year was that? 78.

31:51You were the only one there. It was just post-war. I was the only one there. But I honestly, it was one of the first. And it was one of these things which you would go in, stand there, and it would spin around like this. It would just keep you there. Keeps you like that. And so I thought this was a really fun thing. So I started going on. And I realized that you could then spin your body. You could spin your body. So if you went at a right angle, you could get stuck there because of the G-force going around. And I honestly, I thought I was going to die. Wait, so you just got stuck? because I did this one.

32:27So much force. I was on it like this. Yeah. Like this against the wall. And for anyone who's just listening to this, it's quiet, but my back was against the wall. I was stuck to the wall and I wanted to act like a door and open myself up. So then I would face the wall. And I opened myself up and the G-force slammed me with my face against the wall. Oh, you're so close. Like a door slamming. I couldn't breathe. I was so close to the wall It's actually one of the scariest moments of my life I'm just picturing being on the other side of the ride And seeing you do that And thinking, what is he doing?

33:03And then you just hear, boom You're just stuck there What was going through your head thinking Oh, it would be a better view if I turn over this way I thought I would do it going down So I'd be like, you know one of those stick men That like, all these things against the window And they sort of like Oh, and they just flip round They flip round, I thought I could do that round You thought you'd just go round people just like that You just smacked your face and got stuck. That happened to me. And then... Oh, that's terrible. I remember another time I went to Chessington World of Adventures. Love Chessington.

33:33Oh, man. Yeah. There was something called the Magic Carpet Ride. Yeah. Okay. It goes... Okay. Okay. So Magic Carpet Ride sort of goes... It goes like a magic carpet. I'm trying to explain it to people who aren't watching, but it's like a magic carpet up and down. Makes any sense. It's like the pirate shits you see that swing back and forth. but it's a bit more yeah yeah my brother went on but there was a height restriction and my sister had these platform shoes so i put her platform shoes on to get past the height restriction weirdly i don't know why the guy doing it didn't look down and see this child is too big and i went on to the ride and it was just a bar that came down and the ride started and i suddenly realized very quickly why there was a height restriction it honestly went so fast that i I thought I was going to be whipped out.

34:22I was clinging onto it so bad. I looked to my left. My brother is also clinging onto it. And he just looks at me. And he's so scared. He just mouths, hold on. We're going to die here. Oh, no. Well, that teach you for faking your height to get on a ride.

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36:48Do I have a... and you were like, I'm not that cool. Exactly. You then, TikTok starts coming up, right? And it was musically, then it became TikTok. Yeah. You start posting on that. How many videos are you posting a day, a week, a month? What is it looking like? And no one knows who you are at this point. Well, because I started posting, I made a fitness Instagram account because I was working out a lot. I was very into the gym. And then it made sense to make Isaac Smith fit, which is a TikTok account I had. To sell training programs or to look at it as a business? Just to upload because I was working out anyway and I loved video creation.

37:28So no matter what it was, I was like, I just love putting a video out there and people being like, oh, this is cool. Oh, I get value out of this. I love that. So I started doing that and I did that for a year or so. And it did really well. I got 350 ,000 followers on that fitness TikTok. But I got to a point where I was like, this isn't the style of content that I enjoy watching and it's not the style of content I enjoy making. I like to make people laugh. I like funny content because people appreciate it more, I feel. So I started the whole Italian Batch account. Why the name Italian Batch? It was an old gamer tag.

38:04So I'm only quarter Italian. My mom's Italian. So I was probably eight years old on Xbox and I was like, I need a cool name. So I'll put Italian in there because it's cool to be uh italian and i try i tried to call myself italian bitch because i thought oh this is so cool yeah that's wicked uh but obviously xbox wouldn't allow that and i i got rid of the t for bitch it was like no it's still too much like bitch so then i changed the i for the a and then you got batch and and i thought when i was making the um uh tiktok account and my youtube account um it was at the time that i was studying like mr beast and stuff like that and i was like a lot of the YouTubers and creators who go far have, don't use their name because it's more memorable to use something someone hasn't heard before.

38:48Because I could be Isaac Smith, but there'll be another Isaac Smith or there's other Isaacs already, but there's not another Italian batch. There's not another Mr. Beast. There's like a name like that will stick in your head. So I thought, okay, I'll go, I'll go on an Elias. I'll go under Italian batch and that's how I'll do it. And And yeah, I was posting like five videos a day constantly. I said, that's a real marketing skill. Well, it all came from just watching other people who had done it before. And I was like, I was trying to recognize patterns. Yeah, but there's a difference between, there's a difference, I think, between copying and actually having a sense of why they've done it.

39:24Yeah. And that's the difference, right? People can copy, right? You can try and copy. And I always think if you have an idea or whatever it is and talk about it, because if someone's going to try and copy it, they're not going to do it as well as you because you have the feeling. People can't copy, but people can take inspiration. And you saw that as a mark. You were just like, no, that's going to stand out better than using mine. That's a sort of insight. And that's just like a feeling. A lot of what I did, I was trying to optimize and think what makes it more memorable. Because I can, at the time I was taking part in trends.

39:55So I'd post a trending video. And I knew at the time people were in the beginning, people don't care about you. They think the video is funny, but they think it's a one-off from you. They don't think it's, oh, this guy's funny. He got lucky and that's a funny video. And so I was just thinking of ways that would make me unique. So I thought, okay, well, I'll make a memorable name. I'll grow a mustache. And then I cut my hair into a mullet because I thought, okay, now I have a recognizable look and a recognizable name because I was trying to build a brand that so people would be like, okay, oh, that's his video rather than, oh, it's just a funny video.

40:28Trying to create something that people would remember. How old were you at this point? It wasn't long ago. I mean, four years ago, three years ago? Yeah, I'd say three years ago. So you were 21, 22? Yeah. That's a young man to understand that, I would say. I understand about building brand and understanding the identity behind a brand and understanding that you have to be unique. There's a bit, we had Rory Sutherland on, right? He's a big marketer. He's an amazing guy. And I say this a million times. Jemima, who's the producer, this is one of the first things I ever said to her is that, and I live by it, which is he said, you should never follow logic because it gets you back in the same place as everybody else.

41:05You have to go against the grain. And it stuck with me forever. And people seem to follow logic because they're like, well, that's how you make a car. So I'm going to make a car the same way. But you knew straight away that you had to be different to everybody else and you had to stand out. That's unique to know that. Yeah. I mean, but it all just came from like my obsession with YouTube. I've always been obsessed with content creators. Yeah. And so, and these are the people that I'd idolize. So I would just learn from, from what they did and, and just every little detail I'd think, okay, well that must've played a part in their success.

41:40So I'll do that for myself or that I don't think that works. So I won't do that. And you just learn what, what works and what doesn't work at the end of the day, it's just psychology that like TikTok and YouTube and everything. It's just human psychology. like I saw Mr. Beast talking about even little things like you put a if you're putting a number in your title you want it to be an odd number because it sticks in someone's brain more it stands out more than an even number I would do a 10 year old me finding out this or whatever so I tested that against like 9 year old me and 9 year old tends to do better because it's a number that just sticks out better in your brain you've got to it's just psychology of course it is or like 24 hours a common thing is people will put 24 hour challenge in their in their title or 24 hours here but if you did 27 hours you had three hours on and it feels random but it excites you more yeah why 27 exactly and so people because 24 is obvious or 48 is obvious but 47 isn't so you think why and then you click to find out because you what you need so you need to question it if you want to question it right yeah and then the only answer is to watch the a mustache and Mullet is now a trend.

42:55Do you think you set that up? No. I actually think I was late on it as well. People were already doing it, and I was like, that's quite cool. I don't think they were, were they? Maybe Agassi. People were definitely doing it, and they've started to get rid of it now, I think. But I'm still hanging on. You cling on, man. Yeah. Don't let it go, guys, please. But there will come a time where it ends, I think. So, big question is, how many videos were you posting at that time? on TikTok, on social media. How many videos were you posting? How many videos are you posting now, would you say a week on all platforms?

43:31So at the time I would post, I'd say I would aim for like five TikToks a day. There was a time when, so I only stopped doing the fitness account when Italian Batch overtook it in following. And that was a promise I made to myself. I was like, I want to do Italian. And I said to my girlfriend, I was like, I don't want to do Isaac Smith fit anymore. um Italian batch had like a hundred thousand followers whereas Isaac Smith had 350 and I was like I I'm gonna stop doing the fitness and just do Italian batch and she was like uh I don't think that's a good idea because well the fitness it has better prospects for a career and it did at the time and it made sense but for me I was like okay it doesn't fill your heart no and I was like I know that I could make Italian batch work and if you get rid of your plan b then the only thing that can work is is plan a so i was like when i hit 350 on italian batch and it overtakes that's i'll get rid of the fitness and i will just do do that because then it has to work because i've i've made the leap and so i was posting yet five in the beginning i think it uh dropped down when i started making skits i'd post a standard for me was two a day now i try and do two a day it's it's more like one a day on the uh the main italian batch account i made a second account because I thought I need to make myself more personable because skits, you lose your personality and I'm playing a character.

44:53So I thought to get people to want to watch my YouTube, I have to get my personality out more on TikTok. So I made a second account where I post more personable videos. It's just me talking. So I thought that then is more transferable to YouTube and what I'm doing on YouTube. So I'd be posting like maybe three on there. And then YouTube now, Now I post three a week. So in total, I'd say... You're up at nearly a thousand videos a year. Yeah, I've got... I think I've got almost a thousand videos on YouTube, including shorts. So that's a combination of probably every TikTok video I've uploaded and YouTube videos on that account, which is within the last two years or...

45:37Yeah, it's a lot. Last two years or so. So the question then comes, right, which is burnout and fatigue. And I've definitely realized this with social media. I think that social media, out of any other job in the world, is always on. There's no nine to fives or there's no something the market switches off or you can't get a hold of a client. And especially your work yourself, it's always on, always on, always on. And it's competitive and it never stops. That's right. So then how do you not burn out? Or maybe you have. I do. And yeah, I have many times. And it will just be, it's like a cycle. Like I'll burn out and for like a week or two, I put out less content and not because I want to, but because I physically can't bring myself to do it.

46:28What does it feel like when you get there, is it? It's like I've got, I decide that's not what I want to do anymore. It's like I've got no motivation to upload. I'm like, I know I need to do, but I just, I don't want to. You find yourself, because the job is nonstop, you find yourself, you burn out. You want to take a rest, but you feel guilty that you're not working. And so you never truly rest. And you get lost in that cycle for a week, two weeks, three weeks, until eventually something just switches. And you're like, no, I need to pull myself together and get back to it. And then it's just go from there.

47:03It's a cycle thing. and that's the never ending cycle that constantly happens the whole time yeah i saw this thing with mr beast right which is um i just saw recently on steven bartlett's one where he he was asked then are you happy yeah and i want to throw the same thing to you because i find it interesting with creators do you think you're happy i have i have a great life i've got no reason not to be happy i've got my dream job and stuff like that but um there's i I'm always driven by the desire to want more. And I think that limits your happiness because you never feel like you get to a place where you're like, yeah, this is where I want to be.

47:38And that's the problem with creation. Yeah. Because there is no, when you're constantly creating video after video after video and it's about subscribers and this and that, that feels like there's no end to it. Yeah, no end, exactly. And that's quite a sort of daunting aspect that, because if someone said to you, if someone you first said, you're going to have 500 ,000 subscribers, you would have been like... Ecstatic. I wouldn't, yeah. I don't need any more. Exactly. I don't want any more. Yeah, exactly. And now you hit that, it's like, well, I still feel the same as I did before. So maybe if I hit a million, it's going to make me feel better or it's going to make me satisfied with where I am.

48:13And so what are we then striving towards? What are people striving towards? I mean, I think you're chasing a fulfillment you'll never have. And that, I genuinely think I am happy. I'm a happy person. I'm very happy with where I am, but I'm not fulfilled. And I don't think that, and I think that's something you'll always chase. And that's not a bad thing though, because it means that you're constantly striving to go forwards. Yeah. But it's, it's the, I think that's where burnout comes though. Cause it's like you never sit down and you're, you're happy with the way you are and you appreciate your position and you're content with it.

48:43But it's. I have to say, I have the same, but I, I, I have burnout on a cyclical basis and my wife's heavy hates it. She's like, it's going to come. And I'm like, well, deal with it. Here it comes. And then they do what, how mine works is that I lose the joy for stuff. Same here. It's crazy. And you go like, and then suddenly, it comes back. It comes back, yeah. And then you drive yourself to the same thing. Yeah. And when you get into that zone of burnout, you forget what it feels like to snap out of it. And you think that it's going to be like that. This is it forever. Yeah. And that's when it takes my girlfriend to remind me, you know there's ups and downs and you always come out of it And you're better off afterwards.

49:28But in the moment, you're like, no, this is it. That's me done. What's your support system like in those spaces? I have a really good support system. My girlfriend's brilliant. She's grown with me through everything. I've been with her for seven years. I can't wait to talk about her. She's seen everything. It sounded creepy. I can't wait to talk about her. So she's been there from the beginning. She knows my ins and outs. She knows everything. And you can be vulnerable in that space? Yeah, 100%. And I've got great friends that are inspirational friends in the space and also friends from home. Amazing.

50:04So you have that balance between the two. You have the history and the present as well. Exactly. And great family. So I've got a really good support system. But there's obviously times where I take it for granted and I feel like no one can help me. They're giving me suggestions. But no, they don't understand. This is it. This is a serious problem. Yeah, this is never going to get better. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, Liv gets frustrated because I'll be discussing a problem with her because I like to just get it off my chest. And she'll give me solutions, which are valid solutions, but I'll be like, no, that won't work.

50:35No, that one won't work either. That won't work. And she's like, well, I am trying to help, but it's...

50:55zoned in in that area. This too shall pass. Always. Yeah. Are you competitive with other people or no? Because that's a really hard thing, right? Silently, yeah. I love it that you admit it. I always admit it. Yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely. I'm not competitive out loud. I'll never make it known. And even in games, I won't be competitive. It's like, whatever, if I lose, I lose. But in life, yeah, I'm competitive. I'll keep track of like what people are doing and compare it to myself and think, oh, could I, maybe I could do that better. And then I'll catch up or I could go further ahead or I'm always, I'm always looking at things and how things perform and how I could be better.

51:40Because I only now see that some people copy your content. Sure. Yeah. Have you noticed that? Yeah. I've seen it. Yeah. It's a weird one because it's like. They're doing your content. Yeah, because I don't know how to feel about it. Because immediately I'm like... It's a positive. Yeah, but immediately I'm like, that's really annoying. Why are you doing that? But then I'm like, well, it is a compliment. Because they think it's funny, so they've done it themselves. Yeah, it's a weird one. Because it's hard for me to get over the fact where I'm like, don't do that. You know, make it your own. But it's inevitable.

52:18Do you ever comment on them and go, hey, this looks really good? I think there was one. There was a period where a guy had copied like four of my videos in a row. And it would be fine, but he had like a bigger following than me and he was getting more views on the videos. What was the content he was copying? There's a video where I did when a friend shows you their baby, but it's ugly. And it was like that video. And it's almost word for word. And I remember commenting and I was like, this looks familiar. And my comment got deleted. but that's the only time that I've ever commented on something like that's cheeky you know just copy it yeah you're just outright taking my video and and got more views with it but um but I'm over that now I don't yeah sounds like it doesn't know I've forgotten about it believe it but I don't I don't comment on things anymore if someone copies my my video or the concept I'm like it's it's inevitable I'm not the first to do anything so it's like even I'll post a video and although it would be like an idea unique to me and I've thought of that, someone probably would have done that before anyway.

53:26So it could be a subconscious where I'm like, I've seen something like this and I put it out in a video. I don't think anyone's really first to a concept and it's rare when that happens. And when that happens, it's annoying because if you are first to a concept and someone copies it, it's like, well, that's just outright. It's annoying, right? Yeah, yeah. When you post, do you still know when you post videos, do you look at it if it's not doing views do you ever delete it i do come on baby it's so in the um but what i do is i'll uh i can tell by the morning if a video is if people like the video or not you wait that long so you post an evening you wait till the morning yeah but tiktok can be temperamental because uh it can not perform for a plethora of reasons like i had a video that was a great video it was about getting winded and um it's really relatable really funny i uploaded it.

54:18It was doing really well. And then TikTok took it off the For You page, but people could still see it on my account because it was dangerous. So I took it down and I waited a month, re-uploaded it. And in the caption, I just said, TikTok, this is fake. So a bot would look at it and be like, okay, this is just a recreation. It's not like actually someone getting winded and hurt. And the video got over like 4 million views and did really well. And I was like, okay so sometimes it's just the way you package it that all wow it's just a slight little difference exactly and so sometimes that will happen now where i post a video and i'm like no i know that's funny there's something going on that is meaning it's not done well so i'll i'll private it i won't delete it because i think um i read somewhere that if you delete a video on tiktok tiktok monitor your account because they're like well why are you deleting videos that's a bit suspicious really yeah so your next video might not do as well so you should always just private it never delete it never delete it laura's looking and then i delete this oh do you start privating and then and then uh and then i'll re-upload it on a different day and people will clock on as well they'll comment and they'll be like uh oh i saw i've already seen this before i saw you delete this nice try getting it past us but usually if i have like a gut feeling that a video should have done well.

55:38Yeah. And I private it and re-upload it. It usually does. So it's, yeah, TikTok can be temperamental like that. This is a big question for you. You might not want to answer it. You are. If a video does on TikTok 4 million views, what revenue would you hope to get for something like that? So it has to be over a minute long to earn money on that video. But so it works out. um the way the rewards program works is so four million views um only a certain amount of views are counted as actual views has to be watched for over five seconds and there's a few other things like that so usually works out to be about half so for four million view video two million of those views count and then i have an rpm of 50p per thousand views so what's that it's like uh what is that?

56:28400 pound? Is it 400 pound? How much is that? So 50p. Don't worry, we'll cuddle this all out. So 2 million. Just make it really confident when you go back. 2 million views. Wait, 2 million divided by 1 ,000 times 0.5. Oh, 1 ,000 pounds. There you go. Oh, just worked out, 1 ,000 pounds. No, I just really struggled with the math there. So yeah, so 4 million view video. If it's over a minute long and is registered in the creative fund or whatever it's called now that will earn a thousand pounds whereas on youtube um say you upload a the rpm is very different so it's like um can be up to 10 pound per thousand views wow so a million view video is probably getting close to 10 grand wow in terms of revenue yeah so it's a big difference that is a big difference but it's harder to get a million views on something like YouTube than it is on TikTok.

57:25Yeah, and harder to get monetized as well. I was uploading for two years before I managed to get monetized. Wow. Yeah. Hustling. It's because I loved it. Like I said, I would do it if it wasn't my job. It was just a hobby for me. So I was like, okay.

57:45I've enjoyed every second of this, man. Me too. I really have. It's been really fun. It's been insane. I really appreciate everything. and I'm so glad that we got to do this. And I just, I really admire what you're doing and your work ethic and your honesty. And what I also really admire is, I think you're, this sounds, I hope this, you're so grounded. You just obviously really well liked and that's always like a good thing as someone who's completely grounded and just a good dude. Yeah, that's really nice to hear. It really is. So we'd like to end with eight questions. Are you ready for this?

58:17Yeah, sure. What's the saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? Ooh. Oh, I think, um, I don't believe in the saying, but my mom always says it. And I make fun of her for saying it all the time because she'll be on the phone to her friends and you could just hear it. She, she always says, um, everything happens for a reason. And even though I don't truly believe that it's kind of some comfort knowing that that's, it's, you know, it's your mom saying, oh, everything, even if something goes wrong, everything happens for a reason. It'll work out, you know? Best compliment anyone's ever given you?

58:52When someone feels comfortable in your presence. Yeah, when someone says that, oh, I know, I feel comfortable around you. You have a great energy. Yeah. Like if someone feels I'm comfortable to be myself around you, that's really nice to hear. What scares you most about yourself? I've got a terrible sense of direction. That's terrifying. You put me anywhere. If I didn't have a phone, I'm not going back. Back from where? Don't know. Even yesterday, I was supposed to go somewhere in East London. I ended up in West London. And I had to make my way back. It was like 40 minutes out of the way. I don't know how I managed it.

59:27Terrible. I once got on a train. I was at Exeter St. David's. And I got on a train to go back to London. And I was sitting on the train. I was like, so excited. I was like, thinking about eating scotch eggs. I was actually thinking about getting mini scotch eggs. And I was so excited. I was like, this is amazing. And I was watching Parent Trap. And I looked out the window and I was like, where the fuck am I? I went all the way to Penzance and I was so angry I punched the ground and I had to fly back to London No way Oh my god It's actually one of the worst days of my life You brought to I spent on my knees on the ground and punched the ground You love scotch eggs I fucking love scotch eggs When was the last time you cried?

1:00:07Not long ago actually It was probably from stress Yeah To be honest Just getting overwhelmed Yeah And you just cry? Just cry yeah That screamed sexy. No, I'm an ugly crier, so it wasn't sexy. It's hideous, really. Do you remember what I said? Don't laugh, but it is. No, it's funny to laugh. It's funny to laugh. You should have seen my face. All squished up and wet. What's something you can't let go of? Drake. Actually. There may, yeah. A lot of people have landed on Kendrick out of the beef. But you're with Drake. I'm with Drake. A lot of people say, oh, his music's gone downhill. I don't care.

1:00:44You still love them? I love drink. I love that. What's your guilty pleasure? Brunch, actually. Brunch. I love brunch. That's the best answer ever. I freaking love brunch. That's unbelievable. I hate to, I like to pretend I don't know what it is, but I know what it is and I love it. I want it every day. I love brunch. Yeah, it's great, isn't it? Do you drink or not really? I do drink, yeah. Okay. I prefer the brunch. Oh, I drink, yeah. Oh, you want to drink? Oh, yeah, don't test me, pal. Yeah, I drink. I like the brunch without the drink. I just like just sober brunch, just brunch, just straight up brunch.

1:01:21I'm with you, man. I think pancakes are one of the most underrated things. Yeah, yeah. What turns you off? Arrogance. Yeah. Don't like it when people are arrogant. What turns you on? Oh, the Elizabeth line. Oh, it's so good. So comfortable. It's by far the best line ever. Do you know what I mean? you step in there and you're just comfortable I could just stay just stay in that carriage all day that's great for me yeah what do you like most about yourself? I think if I if I decide I want to do do something I will do it you know if I decide oh that's where that's my goal then I'll make sure that I do yeah I achieve that I love that man bonus favourite swear word?

1:02:07oh I can say anything anything you want even the bad one if you want to Go on, Seth I like cunt Now the swear word

1:02:22I think it's the best one It's the most powerful And you don't get to say it enough as well So it's one that you really feel good saying it I also want to shout out your podcast, man I listen to it Thank you Yeah, I listen It's really good I really like it And it's just come back as well, hasn't it? Yeah, it's just come back for season two, yeah Man, you're amazing I really enjoyed this, dude I really enjoyed it You're just amazing. And I just want everyone to go and check it because I remember I first saw your content. I reposed and sent you a message. Yeah, I couldn't believe that at the time.

1:02:51I was like, oh my God, Jamie has seen my video. And I am truly, truly a fan. Like if I ever am having a shit day or I always go to your content. I mean, you did one, I think it was today where you did the trend about, it's going to be so out of date if we say this. You know the trend that's going around on TikTok? Like, this is my emergency contact. You did. And you did the face. Yeah. It's so good. Oh, man, this has been so much fun. I just want everyone to listen to your podcast, go and check out all your content, all your YouTube, everything like that. Before we say goodbye, can you say goodbye as an eagle?

1:03:31It's getting worse. Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:03:40What do you think? Oh, so funny. So funny. So funny. When he was doing the animals at the beginning, it was honestly genius. Being a hawk. It was the really slow frog for me. On stage in front of everyone. What's the most... Did you ever do anything embarrassing like that? I don't think so. I did stage shows, but I never did a wood pigeon on stage in front of the whole... No, no, I don't think I... That's a particular kind of child who doesn't think about, like maybe someone will make fun of me for doing this. This is going to rock it. This is going to be cool. I'm going to go for it. Exactly.

1:04:17No, it was really good and so interesting. I could honestly hear him talk about YouTube all day. Yeah, I know. It was so fascinating. It was so fascinating. And also, which I loved, is people focus on successful things. So they think, okay, that video there or this thing is successful, I'm going to copy that. No, history is the playbook for our future. Go back to the beginning to see what they were doing there and follow that. that's the way to do it also the number 9 is better than the number 10 odd numbers are better yeah we'd take that I know I love that oh my god we should put that in our title yeah we should oh that's fun 9 reasons 9 reasons why the reason why using this is going to be something like a title the reason why using odd numbers is better than even numbers when making content that's quite a long title I know we'll think of that ok everyone remember to subscribe to our show if you haven't already let us know in the comments what you think of the show and also you can send us an email.

1:05:08GreatCompany at jampoproductions.co.uk or you can slide into our DMs at GreatCompany Podcast. We're on YouTube, TikTok, everywhere. Go and check us out and we'll see you next week for another episode of Great Company.

1:05:26day.

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