JAMIE LAING: I HAVE A FEAR OF BEING FORGOTTEN

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2:07Hello everyone. My name is Jamie Lang and this is Great Company.

2:16Well, hello. Whoa. Wow. Wow. That was a good start. Impressive. Okay, so this is an interesting one today. Hello. Hello. Let's start there. Well, we should start there, hello. But we should also start because this is an interesting one. End of series. This is 40 plus one. This is 40 episodes? Plus one. This is the 41st episode. Are you serious? No. Yes. Such a simple question, I failed. No. Yes. Yes. The answer is yes. Okay, well, before we kick off, we should probably say a couple of things. This is a very special episode because this is the first time that you have been seen on camera. Yes. So, hello, YouTube.

2:54If you only watch on YouTube, you won't know who I am. So I'm the producer of the show. So hello. Hello, YouTube. You have a nickname for yourself as well. I'm trying PJ, producer Jemima, but we're yet to see if that one's floated. And Jemima, you have been with me from the very pretty much birth of Jampot Productions. You've helped with lots of shows and you and I started this show together. You were the producer and we built it together. Yeah, my idea to put him on naked on a horse. Yeah, that was your idea for our little promo for the show. And today we thought we'd do a special episode because instead of having a guest, you're going to interview me.

3:34Well, you're the guest because we figured people who listen to the show love you. Okay. And there's a lot of things we want to know. And I'm going to put it out there. You can go as deep as you want. You can ask any question you want. I have some. Okay, you've got some. You can really ask anything. Okay, I will. I will. if it's too deep well nothing's too deep first you can't offend me and you can never offend me imagine if you walked out it'd be quite good actually it'd be so good it'd be really good but you can ask anything you want I'll be as honest as I possibly can if you want to go deeper on any question you can you know me pretty well anyway already you're gagging for it yeah but a little bit nervous for deep are you yeah I don't know what maybe a little bit nervous I don't know I'm nervous why are you nervous I just think I think what you do every week is actually you make it look easy but it's hard.

4:24Well explain that to me. I think interviewing is like you have to be listening and thinking ahead. It's like really really active listening and trying to see what route you could go down but also I don't know I think there's just there's a lot going on in your head and I think it is a hard skill that people underestimate how difficult that is. But do you But do you know what you've taught me? What have I taught you? Jemima's taught me that silence is good. Yes. So I now listen much more than I used to. Silence is fine. So I'm comfortable in silence. And the second thing is that as a sort of entertainer, which I suppose I am, you kind of slip into the area of wanting to be the star of the show.

5:10And when it's an interview show, you're not the star, the guest is. And so it's very hard to remember that. So you have to step away and be the guide for the guest, whoever it is, to be the star of the show. And if you are someone like me who wants to be centre of attention all the time, that was quite tricky to step back. But today's your day. You're going to be centre of attention. I can't wait. Well, actually, now I feel a bit weird because I don't really want to be centre of attention. Well, you are. So I thought we should probably swap sides because that's the interview side and this is the guest side.

5:38So should we swap? We're going to swap sides? We're going to swap sides. All right, let's do it. Take. Okay. Oh, it feels different this side. Wow. Yeah, it feels different this side. Okay, this is a little bit awkward. Hello, my name is Jamie Lang and I'm great company.

6:01I want to know. Yeah. Obviously, people know you from a little show called Made in Chelsea. Yeah. So, I mean, first of all, I want to know, were you ever asked to do Series 1? because you were series two right yeah I was series two so um my friends Spencer and Kagi and Millie McIntosh and like Hugo Taylor they were all asked to do series one and it was kind of floated around that like oh there's Jamie here and things like that because they basically went to a nightclub and they saw who was on tables in nightclubs and if anyone a table in nightclub was basically you'd buy a table and dance around a bucket of ice and you'd pay money for it and And you'd think you were the coolest cats in town.

6:44And actually you were probably the biggest losers in town. Bucket of eyes. Yeah. And the producers went to, they went to find those type of people. And Spencer was a promoter for a club. So he was great. And I think he's still to this day the best casted reality star ever. Oh yeah. Like in any part of the world, anywhere, Spencer Matthews is the best reality star because he got it straight away. Yeah. And most people didn't get it straight away. I didn't get it for like three years. Really? No. What did you think was going on when you first started? I thought it was following you with cameras and just like following your lives, which they are, but they're also not.

7:22And Spencer knew straight away that it was like a dramatic entertainment show. Yeah. He knew it straight away. So it was kind of floating around. And to be honest, when they first started, I remember sitting with Rosie Fortescue in a nightclub and I said to her, why are you doing that show? And she said, well, I'm doing it because there's the reason, this reason, this reason. And I went, such a bad decision, bad decision. And then when I was at Leeds University, we all sat down and watched the first ever episode. Were you still at uni? I was still at uni at the time. And we watched the first ever episode.

7:51And in my head, I went, that looks like a lot of fun. Yeah. And then when I left, or when I was leaving university, they got in contact and said, we really want you to do series two now. And I secretly went for meetings and secretly started like considering it. And that's what happened. How did they Did someone recommend Had you met them Well it was a TV show It was going to be called You didn't reach out to them I didn't reach out to them It was a TV show called Smokers To begin with Because it was like People who smoked In a smoking section And then it became Chelsea Girls Because that's why Kagi was the voice of it They wanted to Reproduce the hills But in London So it was For anyone who doesn't know What Made in Chelsea is It's like a TV show Around the sort of Privileged young kids Of London Typically living in West London area Called Chelsea I mean Vomit into a bucket I loved it.

8:41It was amazing. It was amazing. And they reached out to me and said, oh, hi, because I had dated Kagi and Millie and I were friends and I was great friends with Spencer. So they were like, we want you to come in and do series two. And I ummed and ah'd for ages. Typical me, not me, I'm going to make a decision. And then I went on holiday with my great friend, Cozzy, who actually is in the office. Oh, yeah. And his mum is a person called Sophie Turner-Lang. Sophie Turner-Lang was probably one of the most powerful people in television. She helped run Sky. She helped run Endermol Shine. And I was on holiday with her in France and she said, don't do that show.

9:22And I went, why? And she said, because you'll be hated. It's a TV show about being posh. Do not do it. And so I did it because everyone was saying, don't do it. And I also thought that like, if everyone's saying don't do something, that must be an opportunity to do something. So I did it. and it was a lot of fun for the first few years it was the best Was there ever anything that was not able to be aired? Yeah Can you remember any of them? Okay from like one thing where it was like the end of season do you remember that very famous scene where Millie McIntosh said thank you to my friend Rosie Fortescue for that moment and for cheating on my boyfriend that thing we all go outside to a firework display Yeah Right we're all having loads of a firework fired into the crowd of all of us and blew up around us and everyone was like screaming and running around.

10:12Oh my God, what the hell? That was like quite a like, so something like humorous, no one's hurt, but humorous something to that, to like things like, there was a very huge scene. I think a cast member sued Made in Chelsea. So can I say that? I probably can. There was a person called, maybe I shouldn't name them just because it's unfair. There was a new girl who came onto the show who was quite religious. And she said, you know, she sort of claimed she was a virgin and all these things and that she was dedicated to God and great, it was amazing. And she flirted with the guys and everyone tried to take her on dates.

10:51Turns out she had a boyfriend the entire time who she'd been with for a long time. She wasn't a virgin and all these things. And there was a scene when she was chatting to a guy and her boyfriend then walks in. She didn't even realise he was in it. She walked in and he walked in and said, you've been lying. I'm your boyfriend. You've been living with me. I've seen on this television show that you're doing that you're saying all of these lies. You're living a double life. She's screen walked out and she was never aired because she threatened to sue because it was slander. So even to extremes like that, that was wild, that moment.

11:26Some of the scenes that happened were absolutely wild. Really? Yeah, like it was crazy. There were no rules. We were just kids getting drunk and like, it was a wild time. How much did it like infiltrate to your real, because you're filming a lot, right? So in the gaps in between, you know, like arguments that you have kind of on camera, do those like filter, did that like, did it ruin relationships? Yeah. I mean, what happened was is that we were all great friends, but then we became like a family together. And I didn't realise at the beginning that it was an entertainment show. So you would have like.

12:03You just thought it was a fly on the wall documentary, right? I thought it was having a fun time. And then I slowly started to realise it was entertainment when I was taking, I took Louise Thompson on a date. I think that was the first episode I ever watched. Yeah, I took her on a date. Golf? Took her golfing, but then we were sitting on the edge of a cricket field and the producers came up to me and said, oh, you should kiss her. And I went, huh? They went, you should kiss her, you should definitely kiss her. And I was like, what, and like hit now? Yeah. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, why don't she doesn't want to kiss me?

12:36She's like, no, no, she'll want to kiss you. We know she wants you to kiss her. You should kiss her. And in my head, I was like, oh, I get it. We're making a show. Of course they want me to kiss her because then that creates all different things. And so it was a real sort of moment that clicked within me that suddenly I was like, oh, okay, so this is an entertainment show. So then what would happen is it was real. Like it was real. Everything that we dated was real and we weren't given scripts. and all that kind of stuff. But I would, for example, Spencer and I were sort of champions at it because I would go into a scene with Spencer and I would, something would have happened, right?

13:16That wasn't good. And I would look at him before, four cameras, 30 people, lights, everything. And I would say, you're not going to like this. And he would go, oh really? And I go, you're not going to like this one. And he went, okay, let's do it. And then we'd go start talking, we go into the scene or we then have arguments with each other that actually we did care about but not hugely care but we did care about and afterwards we go oh that was a good scene what? that's so weird yeah it was quite weird so then what happens and I've said this before but the problem with that is that you're kind of giving yourself like an uber rating every single scene you're doing and we were filming 150 days a year that's what we were filming it's crazy so half of your life is a reality show so then because you're judging yourself every single scene you're going into.

14:04Was I funny there? Was I entertaining there? Was I this? Was I that? Was I dramatic enough? You then step outside of that. Every conversation you're having with friends who aren't in the show or in normal life, you're thinking, am I fun? Am I entertaining? Am I this? Am I that? And so then your perception of what is reality TV show and what is actual real reality becomes blurred. So you don't really know the difference between the two. So you're constantly thinking you're in a reality show. So then what happens is to me personally, is you become, um, socially anxious because you're constantly thinking, am I being entertaining the whole time in every single situation?

14:40So you, you become a recluse. So a one-on-one lunch date with one of my mates, impossible, too intimate. Couldn't do that because I would have to sit across from you and I would have to make you laugh and make you have the best time and make you thing. And if I didn't do that, the suffering that would be afterwards for me would be unbearable. So I would just never see any friends unless I was in a situation where I could drink. And then if I could drink at bars or pubs or nightclubs or whatever, actually fine, because the alcohol would make me less socially anxious and it'd be totally fine and I wouldn't have to worry about it.

15:16But the problem is, when you start drinking that much, then that becomes an issue as well. So during that time, can you see that you became more distanced from people? what was your relationship like with your like with your family or like your closest friends did you kind of oh non-existent really yeah like from the age of like 22 to 27 my mum calls it the lost years really yeah I didn't turn up to I'd turn up late to my mum's 60th I didn't turn up to Christmas one time what were you doing drinking having just better things I thought to do yeah it was bad yeah really bad but I was suffering heavily with anxiety.

15:54Yeah. And so I couldn't, I had to distract myself, which I'd now realise, with a holiday or a party or a date or whatever it was, something to distract myself from my own feelings and thoughts, whatever that was. That's so interesting because yesterday we were doing an interview and you said, I find it easier to open up to people I don't know. Yeah. Which must be from that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not as much anymore, but I did. So I couldn't open up to friends. I couldn't open up to anyone. But I could open up to a stranger because I wasn't going to be judged. Yeah. Because a stranger doesn't know who I am.

16:31So I could tell a stranger my deepest secrets. But people did know who you are because you've got profile. Yeah, but they didn't know who. They thought I was a fun, loving individual. Oh, fine. My fear was I was going to be caught out for actually who I was, which I thought was boring and not as funny and not as interesting and not as entertaining. Because if I'm not those things, then I'm not, then I have no currency on the TV show. So I had to be all of those things in order to create this life. Do you think that show should have had like a duty of care to people? Like what do you think about that?

17:01Because you're not alone, I'm sure, in like your experience of reality TV. And like nowadays it is very different. So there's an argument to say it was, you know, the first time. So they didn't know that that was going to happen. but do you think, like are you angry at all at that show for what kind of those lost years and... No, I'm definitely not angry and look in hindsight probably yeah there should have been but the flip side of it was this is that I chose to go into it I had a choice and I went into this television show and because I wanted to be in this world of entertainment But not with a full awareness of what it would do No, true and there are those sides of things but the things I got out of it were amazing You know, would I be sitting here doing this with you without it?

17:47Maybe not. So there's all those sides of things. And I think that television show, they were making an entertainment show. And yeah, there may be things that were done wrong and badly. And maybe we were mistreated in certain ways. But also, I probably could have left at any point and I didn't. And yeah, I think now there's a duty of care, which is amazing. There should be 100%. But when it first started, no one knew the repercussions of what reality TV did. And reality TV is very heavy on the soul. And it caused, and I just think that kind of fame, and if you're a certain individual like me, like it's going to cause all of that crap.

18:25Do I regret it? No, not at all. Do I wish I handled things differently? Yes, for sure. I wish I hadn't drunk as much. I wish I had paid more attention to my family and to my mental health because, you know, I got to like 27 years old and everything just collapsed. but I also had the best time and I don't think I truly think I'm unemployable a hundred percent and so at least I was employed by something that my brain worked with so it's a blessing and a curse in lots of ways what do you think that show did to like to people's perception of you well oh actually more what do you think people really think of you oh my god um I would probably have to ask you that.

19:09What do I think people... No, what do you think people really think of you?

19:15The wider public think of me or my friends or what? Public, yeah.

19:24I... God, I don't know. There's probably a huge number of individuals who probably think it's that posh bloke from Made in Chelsea who's lived off his parents' money and is just inherited all this stuff and is a rich posh wanker which I totally understand and fair do's because I probably think the same I think there's then a closer group of people who probably know that's not true and are probably thinking now maybe that guy's done okay like I think they think oh he's actually done okay here um so I think it's I think it's a it's a sort of two things I think people think people probably I don't know yeah two things what about people closer to you who maybe said don't do this you did do it they've watched you kind of do it lost you for a bit had you come back like what do you think well I think now they're probably with truth I probably think they're proud yeah they're probably like well I think most people my close friends look at me and go oh well done because what happens when you do a television show like that is you take a shortcut into this amazing industry.

20:35Yeah. Which is the entertainment industry, which I love more than anything. But when you take a shortcut into something, it is a long road round. Whenever you shortcut anything, there's always a long road round. So I shortcut it in the industry, but it's taken me 14 years to get to a place where people kind of go, oh, okay. Yeah. We can give you Radio One or we can get guests on Her Amazing, right? Yeah. Before the likes of getting some of the guests, not a fricking chance because they see you as a reality star and they don't want to associate with you. I don't know. Does that make sense? That does make sense.

21:05Okay. Um, well, what I think of you. Oh, here we go. Okay. I, well, no, you just kind of, you kind of touched on it, but I think, I think my favorite thing about you is that you, I find you really surprising. Really? I think you're really surprising. I think you are way smarter than you give off. Yeah, that's true. And I think you're really I think you're really really talented and I really like when I meet when people are like what's he like I'm like he like he's what you see on TV but like he's also like there's a lot of smarts and I love that you're so you are so happy and confident to be the butt of the joke and I think so few people are and that's why people love you because you've got you've got a very generous soul oh my god that's very kind so that's by the by do I give do I say what you're like no okay Scorpio in you wants that can i ask you a very personal question ask anything you want um babies oh yeah are you gonna have one in the next year i i would really like to have one yeah really yeah it's been but it's been a real long road go on it's been a real long road because i um i was really scared of like babies.

22:22Why? I'm really scared of babies because I was really scared of commitment. Yeah. So I never thought I'd really get married. Why scared of commitment? Because you just never want to be held. Like the idea of not being able to escape something that there's always a, there's always a window to get out of. So in school, there's always a window. You know, you do a job. There's always a way to get out of it. You can always quit. You can always quit. You can always get divorced. You can always get divorced. Well, yeah, but sort of that was almost a bit much of a commitment. So, so, you know, well, yeah, you can, you can get divorced.

22:54There's always a way out with a baby. There's no way out. When you have a kid, there is no way out. You are committed to that little human forever. And that for me is really quite scary. But not scary anymore? Um, no, still really scary. Okay. The baby is still a real fear. My God. And to the point where Sophie at one point, beginning of this year, said she thinks she's pregnant. And I had to leave the restaurant because I thought I was so stressed. I just was so stressed. Firstly, that's not a good partner. That's not a good move. That's a terrible move. I hope you've learned from that. It's a terrible move.

23:42It made not only me just really nervous, it made Sophie really scared. because she, as a partner, you want someone secure and calm and relaxed. And you know, I'm hectic more than anything. And then that's, that made her feel really uneasy. Yeah. Hang on a second. We're married and do not want kids and all these different things. So that was really scary. And then I sat down with someone and I asked them about their kid. I said, do you have kids? And she said, yes. I said, is it, how, my question always is, how is it? Oh my God, is it all right? And she went, it's awful. And I went, huh? I went, what?

24:17I wasn't expecting that. She said, it's awful. Yeah, it's really bad. But she said to me, which was really quite clear, she said, if you want to experience every corner of life, you've got to experience sadness, happiness, all these different things. I think for me personally, she said, having a child is one of those corners of life. So I want to experience every corner of life. And for me, there's a corner there that you want to achieve. And that really resonated with me that actually I want to do the same. Secondly, Sophie wants to be a mum more than anything. and um i adore sophie yeah more not not even just like on a level of just being like a husband and wife or like a friend like like a soul she i i like love her soul and so to deny her that because of my own selfish reasons would be unfair so as much as i have a fear for it and i'm sure she does as well i have to be strong for her and i'm in a stage of like accepting it and actually now a bit more excited about it and so i think next year yeah we would go for it that's very exciting yeah it is exciting but it's very scary at the same time do you think a part of you is a bit nervous about not being um the center of attention when a baby comes well i don't not so much that it's more like oh my gosh it's more like what is it if i'm a shit dad you're like i I don't know.

25:40What if I don't love the kid? What if the kid comes out and I don't love the baby? What happens if that happens? You've got a whole lifetime. I know. What happens if, do you know my other big fear? Okay, my other big fear is that my brain is like crazy. So I think most brains don't think as much as I think. Yeah, that's, I think, quite clear. It really thinks and it really moves fast and it really is up all the time. And so, which also means that I can lean into anxiety a lot because it's a constant all the time. Yeah. And throughout my twenties and thirties, I've had periods where the anxiety has been quite a lot and I've had moments of burnout.

26:29Yeah. And things like that. and that's quite scary because I also think my brain is my best asset because it's quite creative and those kind of things so my really big fear is that we have a kid and my brain goes into that space which is like so anxious or so burnt out or and I can't get out of it yeah and I'm so worried that it happens if a baby does that to my brain that's what I'm really scared of really yeah Yeah, because if I lose, if I, if I lose my brain, then I won't be able to do the things that I do because I'm not smart enough. I'm not a mechanic. I'm not artistic in terms of things.

27:13My brain is like my, my conversation is what I'm really good at. And if that goes, then I'm kind of depleted of anything. That's like when we were talking about, when we had Harley from Rizzle Kicks on and he was talking about when your brain becomes your. Yeah, your worst enemy. The enemy against this, the thing that brings you joy is kind of stripped from you because your brain's turned against you. Yeah. And I'm just worried that my brain could do that to me at any point. I think, I do think it is. I mean, it's definitely a tough job for the person growing the baby. Let's just acknowledge that.

27:46However, for the partner, your body doesn't change at all for those nine months. So you don't have any of those hormones or like for all you know, you could impregnate someone and then nine months later to have like literally no awareness and their baby's had a, so it's, I do think it is hard in like, you don't have like the hormones and like the connection to this, this little baby in the same way that the woman or whoever's had the baby. So like, I do think there is a, that it is difficult. Like, I think your fears are like, like valid in terms of being really nervous of the whole and like, what if I don't love you?

28:22Cause you don't have the, I mean, everyone, everyone's experience is really different. And I do think it is very normal to have a baby and be a bit like, ah, ah, for everyone because I'm just not good at sitting still. I know you're not, but it's holding, holding a baby and just sitting still. Are you kidding me? I'm never still like I have to go on walks the whole time I have to I have to like I've bought like a Lego set because I just Oh yeah I remember when you bought that Lego set I built that one I built another I'm going to build another one because I have to be doing something all the time it's so mad so just sitting there holding a baby I know but they're not a baby forever I know they're very soon going to be building Lego sets with you yeah but I worry about you know I just worry I really worry about That's what I worry about.

29:13But that's a way to not be forgotten. But I also, I used to worry about it. I mean, I used to catastrophize about everything. Are you catastrophized there? You're kidding me. Oh my God. Like I'm much better now. Yeah. But at school, right? So, I don't know, GCSEs. My thing always ended up with me homeless. What? Yeah, yeah. So, okay, GCSEs. I never revised. I literally never revised. Right. My revising for an exam was to wake up at 2am the morning of the exam, take loads of those caffeine pills to keep you awake and revise the entire time until my exam and then do the exam. That was my technique because it turns out I have obviously ADHD and there are so many dopamine things around me that sitting and revising was impossible to do.

30:03What did you think would happen? How are you ending up homeless from not revising? Take me through this catastrophizing. So I would fail my exams. Fine. That's what would happen. Yeah. I'd be kicked out of school. Yeah. I'd be kicked out of school. Means I wouldn't get a job. Right. Because I'd failed all my exams, so I couldn't get a job. Yeah. I wouldn't get a job, so I'd have to go onto the streets and I would have to beg for money because I wouldn't be making any money anywhere else and I would then be homeless. Wow. There is so, so many enormous leaps going on there. that's how my brain works it's like you've got no one in your family would have said hey John and Will I've got a spare room yeah no none of that I would just be I wouldn't I would be yeah I'd always end up there but catastrophizing is always just goes step step enormous leap to everyone's like the world's exploded yeah but I had that I had that with everything you know I the prime example is right is when I you know this when I had a dead leg I woke up in the morning, had a dead leg.

31:09And it was like dead. And I was like, oh, God, that's really annoying. Why is my leg dead? I went throughout the day having a dead leg. And at the end of the day, I went, my leg's still dead. What is that? So I Googled it and it came up as MS. So I thought, well, that's not going to be good. So I phoned up a doctor because I couldn't go to the hospital. Got a 24-hour doctor come around to the house. And the doctor came around the house and I said, I'm really sorry to call you here, but I think I have MS. And he went, you don't, it doesn't show up this way. And I said, no, no, I think you're wrong.

31:46I've got MS. And the doctor did tests and all these different things. He said, no, you have a dead leg. And I went, no, no, it's not a dead leg. It's MS. And I did that repeatedly for about six times to the point where the doctor went, you don't have fucking MS. Really? It's sore of me. And I went, okay, are you sure? And he went, you don't. It's a dead leg. It's a dead leg. And then he left, cost me£600 to get the doctor over, woke up the next day, dead leg gone. So I catastrophize everything. And I now... But you're better now? Yeah, because being 36, I've experienced so many things that haven't come true.

32:26Right. That actually you can train your brain to go, well, maybe this time again, my brain is overacting. It is just a dead leg. And it's just a dead leg. Or maybe this time. It's not where you go, it could be, this one could be. Yeah. And also life is life, right? Like what will be is what will be. You have to accept that. And life is beautiful and wonderful and amazing. And life happens. It's going to be ups. It's going to be downs. You know, I always got told that thing. Life is like a heart monitor, right? It goes up and down. It has to do that in order to survive. If you're flatlining, you're dead.

33:00So you have to have those peaks and troughs in order to continue in this world. I was talking to someone about this yesterday and I was saying, I quite like when something goes a bit wrong because I'm like, oh, thank God. Because if things are going really well, I'm nervous. Really? I need something to be going wrong. Like what? So like when I first started here, I was like, great, everyone's a great job. But my love life was just atrocious. And I was like, fantastic. And then, I don't know. And then, you know, you go on a good date or you have a good, you know, you meet someone that you're like, oh, maybe this is something exciting.

33:30And then work would be a bit shit. And I'd be like, great, the equilibrium is back. I can't have them both going good at the same time. Oh, I want everything to be good all the time. Really? Yeah, I really like when things are good. If things are good. I'm terrified. I'm like, if things are really good, I'm like, I'm going to, like, if I have like a phone, a missed call from mum, I'm like, dad's dead. Because they can't, like, it's not, it's not fair. Because, you know, do you not have that? Also, mum's texts, she'll just say my name. It's just one text, Jemima. And I'm like, oh my God. And then she's like, oh, are you coming over?

34:10And I'm like, can you just start hello? Yeah. I lean much more into, I love it when things are going well. Like that, when everyone's happy and everything's doing well, that like feeds my soul. Like you cannot believe. It's like the, waking up and getting a message saying something like, we've booked a guest or we've sold some sweets into it. That is like, that will fill my cup for like an hour and for like a while, but like, it's the best. Like I love, good news for me is like the best. I'm not a sufferer. I don't like suffering. Fair, fair. I don't mind. I just don't mind. Cause I'm like, that's where the creativeness starts, you know, when you're like, once I wrote a to-do list on like a Saturday and one of the things on the to-do list was write a song because I was like, I've just got a lot of feelings going on.

35:02And I just feel like today I'll write a song. I remember sitting down and being like, I don't know how to write a song. Yeah, but that's good because you're challenging yourself. That's amazing. Yeah, I think I wrote maybe a line. It's somewhere in my notes somewhere. That's my big thing for 2025 is to really challenge myself. Yeah. You've got to start suffering then. Totally. Yeah.

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36:08Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. warning this product contains nicotine nicotine is an addictive chemical they say if you want to go fast go alone but if you want to go far go together at amica insurance we know what matters most to you and we work even harder to protect it together as a mutual insurance company we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs amica empathy is our best policy call 877-41-AMICA and get a quote today so made in chelsea we're talking about duty of care yeah um but it did make you very very anxious and i so for i think anxiety is a thing that everyone feels at one point or another we'll we'll have moments of low and moments of high and anxiety is like a very common thing and i for me i've had moments where i felt really anxious and i felt like panicky however recently i've also had times where my stomach's really hurt and i'm like why have i got tummy ache and i'm like oh that's anxiety then you know it like it can manifest itself in so many different ways so i'm really intrigued to know like what does it look like for you really good question it really is so my anxiety the only way I can describe it was like living in fear all the time like heart beating fast it wasn't physical it's like the most uncomfortable feeling of adrenaline running through your body but a negative adrenaline not like you're about to jump off out of a plane, which is like quite exciting.

38:09And oh my God, it's more like a feeling of like dread and horribleness and something is around the corner and it's going to be bad. That's what it feels like. And it was constant. I mean, all day, every day, every day. For how long? Oh my God. Well, I had a panic attack. I've said this before. I had a panic attack. And when I was 23. Was that the kind of Kickstarter of it? Yeah. I nearly had a panic attack before that, which I now realise when I was in Starbucks and I thought someone was looking at me weirdly and I started to get panicky and I was like, oh, that's a bit weird, whatever, but it didn't turn into one.

38:47I had a panic attack that I didn't know what the hell it was. It was awful and because it was such high adrenaline for so long, this panic attack, that when it dropped, I felt so low because everything dropped and this was like by myself and I remember going to bed and going like, there's no way I could live like this. Are you kidding me? Like, what is this? And I woke up the next day and it relieved a little bit. And I was like, oh my God, what was that? And then that way it was like a light switch. It was like, it was, my life changed from that moment because I then understood what anxiety was without knowing what anxiety is.

39:22And it was just like awful. It was awful. So I had it from 23 until like maybe 10 years. I think it definitely, in my experience, anxiety is a lot of kind of those feelings but basically it's like there's some sort of hurt but you don't you haven't worked out so like for me whenever I feel anxious I'm like why do I feel this way I feel these kind of nervous feelings and it's because I don't anxiety is not knowing what's upsetting you yeah and it's that hunt yeah and also the problem with anxiety is is the more you fight it which I always did I don't want this I don't want this I don't want this this can't be Amy, I don't want this.

40:00I don't want this. I need this. I need to go. What do I do? Maybe I eat chocolate at like 6pm at night. Maybe if I sleep on my left shoulder at night, it will go. Maybe if I meditate three minutes a day on the dot at 6am, it will go. Like I was always trying to find a cure for it. Oh, I've been eating too much ice cream. That's because my body's now cold. That's obviously anxiety because what it is, if I stop eating ice cream, it will get better. Oh, it must be because I'm drinking tea at night. 100 % that's what it is. I was always trying to find an answer. But you weren't looking, you didn't think, oh, it's probably maybe something I'm like, it was always an external thing.

40:35Always external. Oh, it's because I'm drinking too much. Oh, it's because of this. Oh, it was never internal. Because it can't be me. Because if it's me, then I'm, I'm not good enough. Because it's a weakness, I thought. Yeah. So it can't be me. It has to be other things causing it. And it took me ages, beyond ages. There's a real arrogance to that. No, a real, I think more fear. It wasn't arrogant. It was more fear because if I had accepted it was me, then it's going to be with me forever. And I can't have that. the doctor when I finally went to the doctor after six months of feeling like on the verge of panic attacks every single day and I said something's wrong with me they said you have anxiety and I went well what's that and they said it's this like adrenaline and your fight or flight and I went well how do I get rid of it and they said you can't and I went no no come on what do I do to get rid of it I went you can't and I said well what do I do and he said well you have to learn to accept it and I went what yeah I can't learn to accept this are you kidding me like no no, it needs to go right now.

41:41Like it needs to go. And they said, no, you have to learn to accept it. And it's the worst piece of advice when someone starts to get anxiety because you're like, well, hang on, this is forever. But it's the best piece of advice because when you actually do learn to accept it, then it's the road to freedom. And actually what taught me to accept my anxiety is when I got tinnitus. Yeah, so I got tinnitus about eight years ago, which is basically a constant ringing in your head. It's your noise in your head, it's ringing. And for me, it was like the worst noise and feeling in the world. but after someone said to me, you're going to have to learn to accept it, treat it like an air con in the room or a fan in the room.

42:15If you're, if you, if you're thinking about hearing the fan, then you'll know it's there, but actually just, you block it out. Your brain just blocks out. And after about six months, I learned to block it out. And I went, oh, maybe if I do that with anxiety, maybe if I just accept that I'm actually anxious and that that's my makeup and that's okay. And actually figure out what has made me anxious in my life, then maybe that will be a better thing. And so that was around 28, 27. And then I started to do therapy and all those things. But for six years, I just, uh-uh, no ways. That's mad to me that you didn't think to look for all external.

42:51Oh, it's because I had a beer last night. That's what it was, 100%. Oh, it's because, I don't know, I didn't get enough sleep last night. Is anyone, are either of your parents anxious? Yeah, my mum gets anxiety or has had anxiety. but she's very tough like she's like a bull different generation yeah but she definitely has it and you know it also comes hand in hand with I think ADHD and hyper focusing so I hyper focus on stuff yeah so yeah so if I have anxiety imagine the hyper focus that you have on anxiety it's like that that engulfs everything so a lot of people who feel anxious yeah just go oh I feel a bit anxious oh whatever oh whatever I go and I lock onto it.

43:38It will not go. Hence why a doctor saying you've got to learn to live with this is just... Then I focus on that. Yeah. I got something called depersonalisation. Yeah, what is that? Basically when your body has had so much stress and anxiety for so long, it can come from lots of different things. Your body goes on autopilot. So you basically feel like you're floating above your own body. So I woke up one day, I didn't, I had an argument. It was like the straw that broke the camel's back. I had another argument with a girlfriend at the time and basically a fog-like thing came over my eyes. You know if you're like really tired or you've been really hungover, you feel a bit blurry?

44:12Yeah. It was like that constantly. And you basically are watching yourself. It sounds really weird. You're basically watching yourself above your body. Your body feels like a robot and you're watching yourself from outside of it because your brain is protecting you. And for how long? Oh, that was six months constant. Sorry, what? Yeah, while I was filming the TV show. So I would go into scenes and not really know what I was saying. It was like my body was saying it and my brain was watching me say it. Have you watched those scenes back? No, I haven't seen any of it back. I never watched anything back.

44:44But that was quite bad for a bit. And then I went on holiday and I rested and it just like a light switch lifted. I was playing backgammon and suddenly the fog just disappeared from my eyes. Did you tell anyone? How did you know that that was what was depersonalisation? Well, I had it for like a month. And I wouldn't want to wait. I wouldn't want to open my eyes in the morning because I'd see this fog. So I just keep them shut. It was awful. And I finally went to psychotherapist and he says, you have something called depersonalization. Again, latching onto something. And I said, what's that? And he said, well, anxious or all those things.

45:15He said, but also people who have psychosis get it. So I went, well, I've got psychosis. So I thought I was going mad for six months. Yeah, it was not good. Yeah. So that was quite bad. And did you like, did you do anything? And so one month in you go see a psychotherapist and you get that diagnosis. and then five months later you go on holiday and it switches. In those five intervening months, nothing? Nothing. You just... Just had it. All day, every day. All day, every day. Every single day, boom, it was there. Boom, it was there. And were you in a relationship at the time? Yeah, I was in a relationship with a girl called Frankie and didn't tell her about it.

45:49Like, I didn't tell her. I never spoke about stuff ever. I always just kept it in. Never told anyone. Yeah. So I just dealt with it and then had to film scenes and just... Yeah, because I thought if I admitted what was going on, oh you can't do this you can't you're sick you can't do this I was like okay so I never told anyone and then it lifted and then for about two years after that I was just always afraid it was going to come back so then I was so fearful the whole time but it also led me down the road of therapy yeah and therapy is the greatest thing I think because you then become self-aware and all these different things yeah it was full-on yeah it was I didn't realize I thought when you've explained it to me and the idea of in my head I'm imagining you're like you're like a ghost like following.

46:32It is, it's like that. Yeah. That's exactly what it's like. So that's my image of what, when you've talked about it. And I just thought a day, a day or two or a few weeks, five, six months. Yeah, not my experience. My experience was like real bad. But, but I, but mine was like leading towards it. But also I was like drinking a lot. Right. And like, like I was drinking and not looking after my body and like so many things. And I would go on like nights out and drink a lot and wake up in the middle of the night and not really know where I was because my brain was so, yeah, it was just bad. It was bad.

47:04It was just not a healthy, fun time.

47:10You know, when you sit down, do you always have a first question in mind? Because sometimes I give you them and sometimes you don't. Well, okay, so the first question of an interview is really important, I think, because it sets the tone of how the interview is going to feel for the guest. So I think always about something that makes someone feel comfortable. Because everyone's expecting to go, tell me about your childhood or tell me about this or tell me about your music. And so they're expecting that. So if you say something like, what do you eat? Do you have eggs in the morning? They're taken off guard.

47:44And as soon as you take someone off guard, then you can see in their eyes and their whole body just relax. Because they're like, oh, I have scrambled eggs. And you go, God, I love scrambled eggs. Do you know I cook the best scrambled eggs ever? And then the really important thing with an interview, right? I think this is all a personal take is if you ask someone about eggs and then they say scrambled you straight away give an example of how you like scrambled so they feel in a safe space because you're already sharing with them so it's about doing it's taking someone off guard at the top but then also sharing a story that relates to that as well so you feel that you're in a shared space where did you learn that though?

48:21have you learned that is that your own intuition or is that you have you done it wrong? oh okay So I learned that probably, okay, so I grew up in a big family. So I had five brothers and sisters. Two were half sisters, Tash and Jems, who were older than me for my dad's first marriage. And then I had my older brother who was called Alexander, the perfect child. Calm, relaxed, never cried, smart. Then there was me, hectic as shit, as you can imagine. And then I had my little sister. So I, and I, and I wanted attention all the time. And so I found out ways to get attention, which was interesting.

49:03And then when you go to boarding school, you're thrown into a, an environment of people who are strangers. So what you have to kind of do is you have to, it's survival. You have to make friends and everyone's different. So subconsciously you're working out how to connect with people. Oh, that person over there likes Pokemon. So I'm going to talk to them about Pokemon. That person over there is quieter. So maybe I approach it a different way. That person's sporty. So maybe I talk to him about sport. So straight away without realising you're learning individuals because you're with strangers all the time.

49:34And so I think boarding school for me was a place to learn. And then reality TV, when I did reality TV, you're thrown into a scene where you have to make it entertaining. And so you're straight away learning how to make things entertaining because talking about the weather is boring. So you have to talk with people to make it entertaining. So I think that's where I learnt it. But I think what's interesting is lots of people go to boarding school. Yeah. Well, not a lot. I didn't. Actually, you're the only person I know who went to boarding school. However, some people go to boarding school. But I don't think everyone who does has that same mentality of like, you have to get people on side.

50:11Like there's like a really strong desire to be liked. Yeah. So I think the question is right, like is, but do I have a real desire to be liked? Yeah, I have a real... But what, like, as in the, to go into a room and be like, I need to get people on side. I need to like get, you know, I need to entertain people. That is not a normal thing. Like, it makes complete sense that you're like, oh, this is how I learned to interview people. This is how I learned to get people on side because of the X, Y and Z experiences. But I think some people have those same experiences and don't view them in the same way.

50:48Yeah. I had like weird things. like I remember when I was five six years old and I um I I went to school called Hatherick Castle School which was outside of London and how old were you then I must have been so four five six seven I left at eight and it was when we before my parents got divorced when I was eight so we lived in this sort of in in the Cotswolds and I still remember there that I had my friends there. A guy called John, a guy called Two Toms, a guy called Harry and a guy called Josh. We were like the friends together. And out of a year of what, 30? I don't know. I used to do things where in the lunch time you could go to the hot food or you go to the cold food.

51:36And you could pick what you wanted. You could go for the hot or you could go for the salads. I used to go to a certain, I used to go to the salad queue. Even though I didn't eat salads. And you were like four? I was like five. Right. Six maybe. To see who followed me to the salad queue. Just to understand where I was in like a pecking order in terms of like, okay, who was following me? I was so conscious of like people almost like being, I suppose, the leader. Yeah. I was so conscious of that. And I think it was because I was such a people person, like people pleased that I wanted everyone to like me.

52:17So I would do things like that the whole time. It was very, it was quite a strange thing from such a young age to have that sort of consciousness of like awareness of who people are. That's mad. Yeah, it was really mad. Yeah. But I think that came from having two older sisters and I had two older sisters, Tash, who would have been about 18 at the time and Gems, who was 16. So like four, they're like over 10 years older than you. Yeah. And they, but they were in the stage where they were obsessed with boys. They were obsessed with like movies. It was a time of like Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt and these insane actors.

52:48And they had posters on their walls. You know, that's what it was like back in whatever, like the nineties. and so I knew that I thought they were so cool so they just talked about being cool all the time because that's what you do as a teenager so I was like okay what is cool trying to understand what that is oh being cool must mean being popular because these movie stars are all popular and so not only did you have to be popular you had to be like attractive because all they talked about was how hot Brad Pitt was and how hot Tom Cruise was so I was like well what does this hot thing mean So then you were conscious of like how you looked and things like that from a very young age, because I had these older sisters to the point where when I went to boarding school at eight years old, I sat in the room of my first class.

53:34Mrs. Logan was my teacher. I still remember I'm eight. And I looked around to all the boys and there must be about 15 boys. And I thought, well, who's cool in the room? Who's cool? Who's cool? Who's cool? So I was so conscious the whole time of like awareness and things like that and being perceived as popular, I suppose. how that's odd uh um a bit but also i can i definitely um have done things where i've like done like a course or something and i've gone into a room full of new people and i've just thought does everyone fancy me i hope they do is there anyone else who's competition for the so maybe it's a human thing that we actually do i think it's a scorpio thing yeah but the thing i was going to ask you is that's so interesting you had that though Yeah, but I sometimes think I'm maybe a psychopath.

54:24No, not really, but just like, because everything you're saying about wanting to be popular, wanting to be liked, I'm like, yeah. Which is why half of me is a bit like, I don't even know what to ask because that makes complete sense to me. But it's a complete curse. Yeah. Constantly analysing individuals and people and whereabouts and whether people like you or not. It's a curse because you're constantly thinking that. some people just go into situations and don't even think that they just accept it for what it is. Yeah. And all that person's playing with me, that's great. And that person's handing me a sticker or that person's eating their food in that way, whatever, they don't care where maybe you and I were just constantly analyzing things.

55:03Yeah. And that's definitely held me back from doing things. I think, you know, like wanting to be, I'll want to be the best or some, so say for instance, I'm a producer. I probably would have very happily gone down a path to, to present, but I was like, I don't know if that's kind of, it's, it's the showy side of, of things. It's in front of camera. And I don't know whether I will be the best at it, or I'm going to have to like really, really like push myself. I think there are a lot of people who are producers who were like, who probably have that same thing of wanting to be I think loads of people want to be the best whatever but the popularity thing it's definitely like held me back from from So you were nervous to do it because you were the fear of failure?

55:50I guess so you know like whereas I think also there's a level of like for you you know like kind of oblivion as well of being like I don't have that fear I'm lucky in that sense where fear so I definitely think the fear holds us back from doing so much so much stuff and I'm quite lucky where I never really had that so for example when I was offered the Made in Chelsea show right reality show and I was like 21 22 at the time every single person was like don't do it oh my god you're this you'll be that you'll be a loser all that because I went I went I don't really care what everyone thinks they're really about it I but I care so much what people think but And actually, in that sense, I don't care because I think I'll be really good at that.

56:39So I always had a sense of like not being not doing stuff because I was scared to do it. And I think so many people do have that, that they won't do something because they're scared of failure or scared of not achieving something or scared that they're going to be judged. It's a real barrier. But also when you just said that, you were like, I didn't care what people think, but I cared what people think. Like you didn't care what your family thought, but you also because you want it. Do you see? I care what my friends and family think. I don't care what other people think so much. But you didn't care what they thought of you doing Made in Chelsea?

57:11No, I didn't care what my family thought. It's interesting. Like there's a level of I really care what people think, but also throwing it in like the bin and being like, fuck it, I'm just going to post this thing and I'm just going to take the opportunity. Well, I think the worst thing is like to live with like, I've said this before but I never forgot it when I was 14 years old I really fancied this girl I fancied her so much I've said this before but I have to repeat it I really fancied this girl and we were sitting on the rocks and we were like chatting so much with each other and it was like the best night ever and I'd fancied her for so long and we then had this moment where we sat in silence and I didn't kiss her because I was too nervous and then three weeks later I was like why the hell didn't I just kiss her that rejection I would have got or may not have got would have passed by now.

58:02I'd have been embarrassed for that moment, but it would have gone. And I had that moment to try it and I didn't do it. And I went, and honestly, in my head, I went, well, I'm never going to let that happen again. Yeah. So I think, yeah, there's a real fear with like doing things like, I don't know, posting on social media or taking the job opportunity or asking for a pay rise or asking the person on a date. There's a fear of rejection there for sure, but that's only a fleeting moment. If you never actually do it, the sort of regret is worse. 100 % And so what you should do is you should throw yourselves into situations Because yeah, it's scary within that moment But actually that moment then passes But the regret of not doing it I think is a little bit worse That's what I think Do you still get fear of Is there anything that you're still fear of being rejected for?

58:51Not so much rejected I don't mind rejection Because I've been rejected like a hell of a lot I don't think so much I don't mind rejection I mind I have a real fear of being forgotten Okay So What does forgotten like to who? Well Yeah I think I have a real fear of being forgotten So and forgotten means like So that's what really drives me Okay That's my real drive I would say So doing something like Made in Chelsea is like a drug to someone like me. Because what happens is, is that you get, you're seeking validation your entire life. And where does that come from? I don't know, divorce or boarding school or whatever it is, but you're seeking validation the entire time.

59:46And the validation you think comes from everybody else like cheering you on. So then doing a television show like Made in Chelsea, which was a reality show around yourself, you gain this sort of small popularity and you think that's going to like cure everything. And you're going to be get this validation from so many people out there. And they're all like strangers. You don't even know them, but you think it's going to cure everything and it doesn't heal you at all. And so now what sort of drives me is the sense of being forgotten in a business sense. So not growing a business and people go, oh, wasn't it that guy who like tried to grow that sweet business and it didn't quite work?

1:00:26Or wasn't that guy who used to be on TV and then really didn't do anything? And so for me, it's like that sense of being forgotten by individuals. That's still quite scary within me because I'm probably driving towards stuff more it was for other people rather than myself, I suppose. Also, that's an example of when fear is probably quite good. What do you mean? Your fear of being forgotten is propelling you to do things that you want to do. Totally. Yeah. Totally.

1:01:04So, Jamie, we like to finish every episode with the same eight questions. Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. Have you ever thought about the answers to this? No, I'm going to just fire them out. I think about the answer to this all the time. Okay, go for it. Okay, what's a saying or a phrase that always makes you smile or cheers you up? Shall we have shots? It's so great, isn't it? I love the energy of shots. Isn't it so great? There's no other drink where you're like... And you're just like, look, drinking and stuff, I totally get it. But when someone says, let's have shots, and they do it in like a bit of a whisper, you're just like, let's go.

1:01:34We're about to have a fun night. I don't think that will ever, ever leave me. I love that. Like that, that is like the best. That's fun. Man, it's the greatest. Okay, what's the best compliment anyone's ever given you? probably probably saying that I'm kind that's probably a good one isn't it you are very kind that is a good one what scares you most about yourself my brain that it would overpower me it would overpower you yeah it would like it would just one day just go see ya and it would go yeah that scares me oh fair yeah I actually think I'll die from madness yeah that's what I worry about I worry about that a bit dark yeah a bit dark sorry when was the last time you cried and why and don't say that bloody scarf commercial.

1:02:17Oh my God. When was actually the last time I cried and why? I don't really cry. Like I hold a lot of emotion in me, I think. So whenever anyone is talking about proud things, that's when I cry. So like I watched a lot of things on TikTok, which are like military people coming home to their wives. That makes me cry a lot. Oh yeah, that's really emotional. Yeah, like anything that's like that. Anywhere where I'm able to release emotion, which is not about me, I can cry. But if I really thought about stuff, I could probably cry. oh really yeah probably when was the last time you had a personal cry um when I think about my parents not being around that can make me quite sad yeah you get really emotional when people talk about that yeah yeah that would be really bad that would not be fun and like not not saying things I want to say like I could even just do it now not saying the things I want to to my loved ones before they go that would be awful do you find it difficult to say those things yeah and so I now make sure that I like have sent messages to my parents or written them letters.

1:03:16I'm going to write letters for Christmas. Really? Yeah, saying to them what I think about them. I once, me and my brother once wrote a card to my dad for his birthday and we were like, let's try and make him cry. And we gave him this card and watched him read it and he just like wept and we were like, oh no. That's actually too much. We were like, oh God, we've really gone in hard there. Yeah, this is not so good actually. But I find it, I feel exactly the same when I'm with my family. You know, just saying something like, this is really lovely to all be together. that I actually think I'm going to be sick.

1:03:43I'm like, I can't say that. I can't say that. Yeah, so yeah, it's a lot. Not saying it, but thinking it and I can cry, yeah. Yeah. What's something you can't let go of? Probably the desire to entertain and to be loved, yeah. Fine. That's fair. That's very fair. What's your guilty pleasure? Guilty pleasure is bread, man. That's not a guilty pleasure. It is. Everyone likes bread. And also everyone who likes bread thinks they're unique in liking bread. Guys, everyone likes bread. Chick flicks. I love like, yeah, chick flicks. Which one? Oh, like anything from Mean Girls to like 10 Things I Hate About You.

1:04:22Like all that vibe. Love it. I mean, those are both great films. What turns you off? Rudeness. Hate it. And what turns you on? Passion. And like anything, passion about anything. Like it could be about a piece of grass. like passionate about anything makes me go yes. Okay. And what do you like most about yourself? I like the way that I can make people feel comfortable in situations. Yeah, that's a great one. And bonus, your favourite swear word? Shit. Really? Shit, yeah. Shit, shit, shit. Very nice. Okay, Jamie Lang, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

1:05:05So I ramble too much, probably. I could talk to you for hours. But hang on, but tell me, be honest, what do you think? Of interviewing you? Yeah. It's hard. It's really hard interviewing someone because I'm listening and I'm like, oh, interrupt, and I'm like, don't interrupt. I mean, there was stuff that I definitely have not... Have I said stuff like that before? I feel like I'm going to need to listen back to it to know if we go... But I was definitely more honest than I've ever been. Really? Yeah, for sure. On other things, I hold back. Really? Yeah, I definitely said things that I just haven't really spoken about.

1:05:34Well, like Made in Chelsea stuff and like my feelings and more and like all that stuff. How did you find it? I thought you were great. Really? Yeah. I actually find it really hard to talk about myself now. Yeah, I find it really hard. I find it so hard. But I'm the same in that I think I'm open. But when someone asks me, you know, I'm like, I actually find it really hard to say. Well, we should say that if actually generally people want to hear more, we can maybe do a part two at some point. Yeah. Oh God, there's so many more questions. And then maybe I should do... And if you guys have more questions, send them in and I'll ask.

1:06:01And maybe I should ask you. You can do. I mean, I don't know if anyone's interested. I think they're interested. Maybe they are. Guys, listen, if you want to get in touch, please do. We want to hear your thoughts. You can send us an email, greatcompany at jampopproductions.co.uk or you can send us a DM. At Great Company Podcast. We're also on YouTube and TikTok and everywhere as well. And please subscribe to the show because it makes so much difference to the show. I cannot tell you. Are you ready for next week? I'm very excited for next week. So we'll see you next episode for another episode of Great Company.

1:06:34Do da da da. Do da da. Do da da da. Do da da. Do da da. Do da da.

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1:08:03Two million free gold coins and two free sweeps coins. No purchase necessary. VGW group void. We're prohibited by law. CT &C is 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino. Hello, everyone. We're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from Nearlyweds and then Newlyweds. But now, guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newlyweds is now Nearly Parents and we're bringing you the same honest heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood I guess Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying not to kill each other Get ready for Nearly Parents your favourite new podcast