JESSIE REYEZ: DEPRESSION IS LIKE A DAGGER BUT YOU CAN'T SEE IT TO TAKE IT OUT

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2:12Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Lang and this is Great Company

2:20Well, hello Jemima Can you do it without a well? Hello Jemima Hello How are you? Well Jemima just asked me to start the podcast without a well change it up I'm just trying to spice up Trying to spice up the podcast Trying to spice it up We are a year into the podcast, but we do like to start it as always, which is saying Hello, my name is Jamie. I'm the host of this podcast, Great Company. And this is Jemima, who is the producer of the show. And the reason why we do this, we sit together, if you are new listeners, is because we like to have the insight of the host as well as the producer, because you make the magic happen.

2:57A little bit of the bee. A little bit of this. Hey, this is over a year. Wow. We've been going over a year now. well done everyone so what was our year episode? Eliza last week last week was our year episode yeah that is amazing hey well I want to say a big thank you to everyone who has listened to us over the past year you guys are amazing you really are we love you we really really do and I appreciate every single one of you of always tuning in I know you probably have busy days probably don't have that much time you're probably living your life but to click on to our little podcast and listen to it is simply amazing.

3:36So thank you so much. And if you're new here, there's a whole 52 episodes to go back and listen to. Boy, oh boy. I could probably name every single episode. Really? Yeah, maybe. Do you want me to give it a go? Wow, this is going to be intense for the beginning of the episode, but I can give it a go. Go for it. Youngblood. Yeah. Joe Brand. Yeah. Zara Larson. No. Okay, Youngblood, Joe Brand, Paloma Faith. Yeah. Zara Larson. No. Elizabeth Day. Yeah. Casper Lee. No. Jesus okay I give up I honestly give up Who's been your favourite guest? I can't I don't think I can say Who's been your least favourite?

4:14No I can Who's been your favourite one to edit? Favourite guest Favourite one to edit Favourite guest But you don't want to say favourite guest Because they're all good I don't want to be rude Yeah but who's been your favourite to edit? That's not your favourite guest Favourite guest to edit Or favourite So a dream guest of mine I've always always wanted to work with Was Alain de Botton And we had him on And he was just wonderful Yeah he was very amazing And what would you say I have changed From the beginning of our journey to now? You've got a lot better at interviewing Have I really? Yeah, definitely You've got like You're way calmer Yeah I wasn't so calm at the beginning Yeah I've realised though I think that's my style It's just It's like As a producer Like I don't interfere with you too much Best way to do it But it's like get you calm I think that's the best result Yeah, but for a lot of people who don't realise Is that you do as well because whenever I'm sitting at the table, Jemima, we have the iPad that sits with us and you'll constantly be writing notes in of like different questions, options.

5:12Yes, true. But it's also like they're there for you to ignore as well. Very true. Do I ignore them? Sometimes. But that's what I'm just there. I'm just your safety net for you to go. And when Jemima really wants something to be said, she puts it in bold. And big. And sometimes in red. And then sometimes in red. And sometimes I underline it. And then I know exactly. And then sometimes I get, we only have five minutes left. Don't like that one. Yeah. Anyway, you've changed lots. You've got much better. But you weren't bad to begin with. You weren't bad to begin with. Well, I would like to say, as we are complimenting each other, while people are listening to this episode, I want to say you're a brilliant producer in every single way.

5:49And I'm very lucky to have you on the show. I think we're a good team. We're an amazing team. We have synergy. We have great synergy. Speaking of synergy, we have a guest today. And our guest today is Jessie Reyes Jessie Reyes Jessie Reyes is a Colombian-Canadian singer-songwriter She has collaborated with some of the biggest stars in this world She's collaborated with Calvin Harris Eminem Eminem She wrote the song One Kiss with Calvin Harris and Dua Lipa She's written her own music like figures She's worked with Lil Wayne I mean, within the industry, she is renowned Sam Smith she's renowned to be a complete superstar Jessie is one of those really unique people who has a lot of fire and a lot of emotion and is an amazing storyteller She's definitely a musician's musician Yeah, any musician out there They know her They know exactly who Jessie Reyes is She is incredible I'm so excited, she's really cool She's really cool Jessie's had lots of things in her life from hard upbringing to experiencing sexual misconduct in the workplace by one of her music producers.

7:01Yep. And she was vocal about it. She didn't name who the person was and then other people came out and named him and she felt that she then had the power to voice who it actually was. She's a huge activist for Women Empowerment, which is amazing. She's a strong, fiery individual and I cannot wait to have her on. Yeah. Are you ready for this? I'm really excited. She's just so cool. And if you don't know her music, do go and listen to it. She's also got a new album, which is called Paid in Memories. Correct. And we'll leave the link in the description below. Anything you need is in the description below of this podcast as well.

7:33If you haven't subscribed to us already, please do. And please let us know in the comments which guests you would like next because we want to hear from you. We're also on social media, YouTube, and of course you can email us greatcompany at jampopproductions.co.uk. Are you ready for this? I'm ready. Please enjoy this episode of Great Company with Jessie Reyes. good evening my name is jesse ridges and i am in great company i i love your guys videos oh you see them what get out of here yeah wait you like the videos we're recording i love them yeah you guys you guys uh you guys fucking kill me man you're you're a meter from regular skin color to red when you guys start cackling is the fucking best.

8:17Yeah, yeah, I'm about to blow up with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:24I find work-life balance the hardest thing. This is what I find the hardest thing at the moment. Like to juggle family, work, relationship, friendships. I'm way off at the moment. It feels like a lot of my energy is just going into work. Yeah. Which actually also doesn't make it that fun sometimes, because when work becomes work... Yeah, what's your escape? it's not as fun do you feel like that a lot not a lot anymore i used to feel like that often and then 2020 kind of reset me uh and i started making more of an effort to enjoy my life more like for years i kind of just had my head down and i'd been hustling like a motherfucker and i also didn't like grow up rich or anything so when i started making money i had this weird relationship with success where I almost, I didn't want to look at my bank account.

9:16I just wanted to keep working and wanted to keep working. And, and, um, 2020 hit forced me to stop working. And I kind of looked around and realized that I'd given up so many years of my life and hadn't reaped the benefits of, uh, or, or like eating the fruit that I'd worked so hard for. I didn't even like bit of strawberry, you know? So I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. I started eating some fruits 2020 It was nice When you When you say fruits Is that metaphorical? Is that actually Eating fruits? No, no You bought like a slide Yeah I bought a truck Yeah, you bought a truck I bought a truck And a Lamborghini No Lamborghini It's a ghetto ass truck I ain't gonna tell you the mark Just in case Because I got some stockers That'd be trimming But it's a nice little truck And I spend a lot of time Up north now I'm really I'm a lot better With my off time You know You know, hustle culture, it makes you feel guilty for that.

10:12So you really have to set boundaries and make sure you're working when you have to work so that you could silence any guilt that might come from that. Because you only feel guilty when you half-ass it. But if you've been fucking sweating and now it's time to rest, you have to rest in order to work that hard because life is about this. Life is about that. I always said, life is like a heart monitor. It goes up and down. If it's flatlining, you're dead. It has to do this, boom, boom, the whole time. and I think so many people who are going to be listening to this will relate to you with that where it's like this this like constant treadmill that we're on and it's like and then as soon as we stop doing it I had this thing recently which is like where I suddenly realized that like there were clouds and there was like blue sky and like there were flowers and there were trees and I just hadn't I'd been so down in everything that I hadn't noticed that there was this world going on around me that was so beautiful and so I'm trying to put my head up a little bit more metaphorically yeah I think so I just yeah I just hadn't noticed anything Yeah Which wasn't good Yeah Do you think you've always been a workaholic?

11:13Yeah Ever since you were a kid? Ever since I was a kid I had a front row seat My parents have a very, very like Admirable work ethic And it bled into me Mind you, I didn't always have the best relationship with authority So my work ethic didn't really have a chance to shine Up until I was in charge of my own shit And up until I was doing what I absolutely loved Which is music so I've always had great work ethic but had a bit of issues with authority what do you mean? I just fired a few times more than a few, fired several how many times do you think you've been fired? oh I can't count anymore over six you've been fired six times?

11:57yeah yeah that's how I knew that I was like I'm destined for this because everything else would have been a fucking failure everything else would have been a fucking failure but yeah yeah what were you fired for i had danced three times that three times out of the week and i and i uh dance practice got canceled but it had those in the schedule that i couldn't work those days i was like fuck that i got a day off but then you know your frontal lobe didn't really developed and i got hungry and i was like fuck and that's the closest store to my house because i was a cashier there so i was like fuck it i'm gonna slide in slide out maybe nobody will see me and then i got the bright idea of going in with rollerblades because i was like if i could go in and rollerblades and get out and go in the fast track lane, there's more of a chance of me being successful.

12:40And boy, was it not. Like, fuck. I got a call later that day and she called me and she was like, Jessie, it doesn't really seem like you want to work here. And I was like, you're right. And that was how the conversation ended. And that's how it ended. And then I pretty much got fired, but willingly fired. That was one of them. And then the other one, I was 14, I think. And I used to have multiple jobs all at the same time. I was working at Wild Water Kingdom, which is a water park in Toronto. It was my second year working there. I ended up working there four years all through high school. I would work there in the summers because I could get free funnel cakes and I could get free access to the water park.

13:19So I was like, man, this is great. Cool with everybody. Management loved me. And this fucking lady comes up to me. I'm at the funnel cake stop and she's with her fucking loud ass kid. and she goes she said something she wanted something she's yelling at her kid and then she starts yelling at me she's like I want this and I was like okay I'm like it's gonna be$10 like I told her how much it was and this fucking bitch took all her motherfucking cash and threw it and she threw it at me she threw it she didn't throw it at me she threw it on the table but towards me and I caught the disrespect and I was like I took the money and I didn't get her fucking change and I'm like here's your change and I threw it back cause I was petty cause I was young and petty with an underdeveloped frontal lobe.

14:01And I threw it and this lady lost her fucking mind. This lady lost her mind. She started cussing like crazy. Like she had a megaphone, but all she had was lungs. And she's going off. And then... She had a megaphone too, she had was lungs. Her kids just watching. And then I'm cussing back. She's significantly bigger than me. This lady's at least a foot bigger, at least like 40 pounds heavier. She's a grown woman. And I'm a little teenager. But I'm loudmouthed. So I'm cussing back and I'm like, oh no, I'm cussing back because we're eye to eye. And this lady gets up and she stands up on the fucking counter.

14:35And now she's cussing down at me. And I'm like, you bitch. And I'm like, I'm still cussing at her. And everyone's like, holy shit, holy shit. And she looks like she's about to jump on me. Mind you, she's bigger than me. So I had no choice. So I back up and we're at the funnel cake. Do you know what funnel cakes are? No. So they're like deep fried dough. Okay. Like a donut. Kind of. Yeah. Like a waffle that's been shot at. This has got a lot of holes.

15:02So that's what it looks like, right? That description. Like a donut, like a waffle that's been shot at. Okay. So then I back up. Are they good? Are they good? They're fired. That's why I worked it because they're so good. They're cracked. Actually, it is cracked. But anyways, I back up and the only thing I could grab was one of the frying pans because it was in there with the fucking butter cake. Get out of here. No, you didn't. I swear. But then, but then everything didn't, it sounds like it's about to get, there's a lot to be a lot of carnage, but no. I grabbed the fine print and I lifted up to go and then everybody got in between us then because then they realized what the fuck was going to happen and then they pulled us apart.

15:35They kicked their ass out of the fucking out of the park and she's eating her fucking funnel cake as she's walking out with her kid. And then my management comes by and they reprimand me like, Jesse, like, how could you? Like, what's going on? And I was like, y 'all don't understand. I'm trying to defend myself. And they're like, come, let's go to the office. And I'm like, OK. And so I go to the office with them, which I'm very reminiscent of school. I go to the office with them and then they close the door and we sit down and they're like alright tell us what happened because they loved me because I was just cool with everybody so it was just funny they had to put up a front with everyone because it looked fucked up but they knew me enough to know that I wasn't completely in the wrong if it got to that level it's not like it's not something that I would have instigated I could have handled it differently had I been more mature Jessie how old were you at this point?

16:1614, 15 yeah 14, 15 and you went to pick up a frying pan? yeah went to pick up a frying pan actually funny enough that's the only one i didn't get fired from that's not even a firing story that's not even a firing story that's just you just attacking defending defending sorry let me put it out that was you defending yourself with a frying pan yeah were you always a i i'm the same as you at school i was like reckless uh i you know i was just all over the place my parents just thought i was naughty i would like break windows i would steal money weird i'm not even kidding like four years old yeah yeah yeah i'm a kleptomaniac you better watch your shit because it'll be gone but i used to steal so much stuff from my i was like four and i used to steal money i couldn't even use it no way and i used to hide it in around the house i used to steal like house keys and i was like basically like i don't know if you have it in the states but in the uk they're saying called a magpie which like they like shiny things my dad is like a magpie.

17:21I like shiny things. I used to just take it the whole time. But I then, because of all of that, I thought I was a naughty kid. And so then, teenage years, I was just, well, I'm naughty. Oh, you identified with it. 100%. Ain't that a bitch? Yeah, it's terrible. So my question is, did you identify as a sort of reckless kid? Mm-hmm. Then how does that manifest in your life? I mean, professionally, I've been able to alchemize it in a way that I found useful. where I could stand behind what I do because I'm authentic in my choices. And also it helps me swallow failure because if I fuck up in a choice, it's my choice directly and I can live with it.

18:02If I'm fucking up and I'm making mistakes, but I'm trying to aim to someone else's perception of who they think I am, it's going to be a lot harder for me to swallow mistakes. So if I'm fucking up on my own accord because I've been able to identify with being reckless and just being myself regardless of the consequences, it's easier for me to to walk through particularly the music industry because it could get a little convoluted I've been able to alchemize it now that I'm an adult but younger it was a little bit more difficult because because I would just you know you end up in trouble and everyone kind of not shrugs their shoulders but they're like what do you expect you know what I mean yeah

18:44I feel like I feel like you have these like big emotions like I can feel it on you valid Yeah. How do you live with such big emotions? How do you do it? How do you process them? How do you get through them? Because when you feel so much as a human, it's hard to move or get through people because you must feel people, relationships, you just feel. Yeah, I create like vomit. I create like a river. I create like a volcano at peak. I create like a fucking waterfall. It just kind of comes out. And I thank God for that because if I didn't, I think I'd fucking explode. I think I'd be dead, to be honest.

19:28Yeah, if I didn't have an outlet for it. And I've also learned to not self-soothe, but to know myself enough to be like, oh, I need to make and I need solitude. That's my medicine to calibrate the overstimulation of feeling too much. So because, you know, if you look at someone like Amy Winehouse, right, she obviously felt as well. And that, you know, ended so sadly. And I think when people feel a lot, because I think I've been in this bracket, right? When you feel and you don't understand it, that's when you kind of can lean into maybe like medicating and like drinking too much or whatever. So how do you make sure that doesn't happen?

20:11I'm sober now. Oh, you, hey, congrats. Thank you. Love that. She said sadly. No, that's amazing. Hey, Jessie, good on you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's been, it's been almost two years. Wow. No liquor. One or two. One or two. Yeah, the album release party Come on, I love that How was that journey? I'm so interested in this space I used to bartend for years, I've had a lot of jobs I used to bartend for years, I was a bottle service girl for years too And then when I started in the music industry When you work nightlife You learn how to be drunk And have your fucking wits about you still So I could count money drunk And I was okay And it taught me how to function and then in studios you're drinking and then on days off you're drinking and then on show days because you're nervous before you go on stage you're drinking and it just I noticed that it was a crutch my family wasn't a fan of it my exes weren't a fan of it shit I wasn't a fan of it the next morning the mornings after anyways I wasn't a fan of it either ultimately I definitely miss it though there's moments where i miss it like a mother but what was that moment because i think with the last time i got drunk yeah my album release party for yesi wow what happened i got fucking torched i'm grown this is enough because my poor mom my poor mom has i started drinking so young i got a whole bunch of older cousins yeah and the first time they got me fucked up i was i I was 11 years old.

21:5211, 12. That's the first time I got drunk. And then I started drinking in high school at like 14. And it's fun to begin with. Of course. Of course, it's so fun to begin with. But it's reckless. I'm surprised I didn't die. My mom's prayers have saved me from a lot. There's a lot of nights I could have fucking died. But I have really good friends that would drag my ass home. But that's what I mean. My poor mom has had to open that door and see me like that so often. that when that happened, I was just the next, the hangover lasted days, like two, three days. And my mom - But anxiety or just hangover?

22:26Yes, anxiety too, of course. I had said what to who? I was with, like, it's just ass. I was like, oh, this is enough. My body hates it. My body's rejecting it. I've done it for years. And luckily, my first sober show, because I used to, it was a must. I'd always take like one shot, two shots before the stage. To get the buzz and the confidence and to get the nerves away. Yeah. And so then I was able to like curb that but I would still use it for life and studio. And then yeah, the album release party was just a fucking shit show. Nothing bad happened. I took it as a blessing, grace from God and then I was like, this is enough.

23:04We should call it a day. Walk me through it. So you woke up in the morning and you're like, I'm done. This is it. I'm done. Yeah. And then my mom, it's just embarrassing. You know, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. And it's even more embarrassing when you have a mom like mine that tries to be understanding. Because then you, she's not even mad. She's just like, mija, like, esto mucho, this is too much. Like, you know, not angry. I just, I don't know. She did great, though, because it served enough to get me to stop. Do you miss it? Yeah. What do you miss about it? You know when I miss it the most?

23:37When? I can't have fun without it, which is great, because I know a lot of people can't. Yeah. I can't have a great, I can't, I can't, I could just have fun without it. I could dance. I'll dance all night, sober as shit. When I miss it the most is when life is hard. Fuck do I miss it then. Oof. Because I just, there's nothing, you're just in the weeds and you're on your own. And it used to serve like a little life, like a little life jacket, like a little donut. For the moment even. Obviously it wasn't a solution that had any longevity. but at least for the moment it was just a little bit of like and now I don't have that now it's just breath work and prayer I'm working out or yoga or nature it's something else but nothing that has the like that that mechanical as a as mechanical as an effect actually there's one thing that kind of has a little bit of a mechanical effect which is a this this this um thought technique for lack of a better word that I learned in the power of now that just teaches you to observe what you're thinking and observe what you're feeling as opposed to feeling it.

24:42So you kind of take a step behind yourself. Run me through this. Give me an example. What do you mean? Like right now I just got emotional and I'm able to step back and see myself feel that as opposed to feeling it. It's almost like if your POV just got grabbed and just moved back and it's nice because it unloads you. I'm not holding that weight anymore because I'm just watching it and I understand that my thoughts aren't me and my feelings aren't me I'm just the awareness it's kind of it's a little bit esoteric the book does a better job of I'm butchering it a little bit but I get it I get it but it's I know what you mean it's that um it's that reliable friend that gets you through those hard times yeah but it's the easy option it is the easy And feeling it.

25:30And you're getting emotional now because it's hard, right? Yeah, it's hard. It's hard when it's hard. But I'm happy I haven't broken when it's hard. Don't break. Yeah, yeah. Don't. No, no, I won't. There's really close people in my life. Yeah? Yeah, real, real, real close. Nice. And it's hard, but it's an amazing thing because it changes your life for the better. And I flirted with it. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. my 20s were mad crazy and i used i used i haven't really ever said this i used alcohol really to numb everything and i would drink all the time i would go to meetings drunk me too yeah i'd take shots before i went into the meeting to make sure that i'd be okay because my anxiety was too high yeah and it was not a good thing but then when you yeah it's also if we if i look at it sometimes is it's like a, it's a poison and it's this and that and so there are so many other things in life that give us that excitement and that joy.

26:33Yeah. You just have to find them. Makes you stronger too without it. Also, the problem with you when you feel so much, when you put alcohol into that, you feel even more. Oh my God. Let me tell you something. It's like petrol. Don't miss. I fucking, I'm so happy of not, there was so many calls that shouldn't have been made. So many conversations that shouldn't have been had. It's insane. It's insane. I should have deleted my ex's numbers It would have saved me so much It's crazy Give it to me because A lot of your songs, right? Yeah Are about heartbreak You know, especially, you know If you go back to your first song in like 2016 figures, right?

27:15Which blew up when viral What do you like in a relationship? And what do you like when heartbreak? What do I like or what am I like? What are you like in a relationship? what am i like now or then let's give the past tense and try and be and listen i'll be real with you i will be as honest with you about me so you just listen what were you like tyrant a tyrant a tyrant but i wasn't healthy how could i have loved someone healthy if i didn't even love myself like but I was a fucking tyrant I was very um passionate and just making stupid decisions there was relationships that should have ended within the first year trying to trust people that didn't want to be trusted is a joke loud angry passion latina throwing things it's a lot it's a lot it's a lot and I don't miss that version of me at all But passion is a good thing sometimes It is It's a great thing Passion and liquor Is a different It's a different monster Yeah

28:33I can feel the energy with you now, right? Like it's the energy that I love That's like a bouncy ball in a room And trying to control that as a parent is quite a lot So how do your parents control you? People see us Like my parents come on tour with me My parents are often at my crib. If I'm traveling, chances are they're traveling with me as gang. But people see that and assume that it was always like that. And it really wasn't for like since I had puberty, since 12, 13 till about 19, 20, we were at war. I ran away all the time. I lived with my aunt. I lived with boyfriends. I lived with like homegirls.

29:11I just had, we were just at war. and then my first time ever being depressed, I kind of went underground and when I finally came up, I looked around and the only people that were legitimately there were my parents and that was the first time that I woke up and I was like, oh, you've been a fucking asshole and that was the first time that I also thought like, or, you know, you have that realization when you get older when And you're like, oh, my parents are just humans. They're just doing their best. How could I have expected them to have done anything more than what they did? Because they were just doing what they could with the tools that they were given from the parents that they had.

29:51Which seems so normal, but everyone doesn't know that under a certain age, that's something that you only come to with age. So it was difficult for them. But now they're reaping the benefits because all I do is apologize and try to mend, or not make amends, but give them sufficient compensation for their years of suffering. When was that moment that you suddenly realized that? Because that's always a big moment when you realize that your parents are just humans. They're not superheroes. They don't know everything. They're just working and figuring everything out as much as we are and you are and everyone in this room is.

30:30it was a few things during those years a few things but you just you know trials and tribulations that you you see their humanity you see there you see under the armor or they make choices that you wouldn't have and then all of a sudden you think you have you might have had better judgment in that situation that kind of fucked that that mind fucked me for a bit yeah that mind fucked me for a bit great for ego yeah great great ego when did you know that you wanted to do music I was always doing shows around the house. So my mom knew before I did. Because before I was conscious of me, she saw it.

31:07Like I would just stand in front of the TV watching Pavarotti and then trying to sing his songs. And she saw it in me at like three. There was this music school in the basement of the Pizza Hut at the corner mall. And she took me there. And she tried to put me in lessons. And the guy was like, no, no, she's too small. She's too small. My mom did her best. She convinced him to take me on as a student, even though he kept saying, no, no, I was too little. And my mom was like, I'll just pay her to come. Even if she doesn't retain it, I just want her to be here. You're three years old. Yeah. And my mom fought for that and convinced him.

31:43And then that's when I started piano lessons at three. I wish I stuck it out because I'd be a great pianist now. Obviously, things worked out pretty well, though. I think it worked all right. Yeah, it worked out all right. But it would have been a nice additional skill to have honed in on. That's crazy. Mm-hmm. Were you writing music then in your bedroom? Where were you writing your music? Writing in my bedroom. I mean, I really started writing songs at grade five. How old are you? 10, 11 years old is when I started writing songs. But I didn't really write a good song until high school. And I'll never forget because I was...

32:19This is when the depression kind of started to hit and I would not be able to stay in class because I'd be too emotional. and I'd end up skipping and I'd go to the music room because the music room had a room inside with a piano and a guitar and I could just hang out there. And my music teacher, Mr. Lagussure, was one of the few teachers that worked chill. But he would see that and let me hang out in there and call the other teachers and be like, she's in here. She's not skipping. She's still in school, but she's in here. So that would like, they'd kind of give me a blight. Anyways, my homegirl, Mona, who's one of my oldest best friends, She came into the room one day because I wasn't at lunch with them.

32:58And she was like, what are you doing? And I showed her a song I was working on and she got emotional. Wow. And I'll never forget that. Yeah, because I was going through it, but it was the first time that I saw one of my songs move someone. Yeah. That's a big moment. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. Very vividly. She's great. I love her. Her kid's my godson. What was the song about? Some motherfucking boy. Seems like a theory. He's a great guy too. He's great not to. He was young. How could I have expected more of him? He had an underdeveloped frontal lobe. It's always his lobe, yeah. You mentioned the depression, right?

33:35Before. You said it to me. Talk me through that because I think in my 20s, I suffered severely with anxiety. But when I first came, I didn't understand it. I didn't know what was going on. And I know people listening to this right now will probably be in the mix of something it is. So can you describe to me what your depression felt like and why you think it happened? It was the first time that something that wasn't tangible, that wasn't material, had the capacity to physically hurt. And that felt like fucking dark magic because I didn't understand. And you feel like you've been stabbed, but there's no knife to take out.

34:21It's so fucking spooky. So that's what that was. I'm sure anybody who's gone through it can relate. That's such a good description. It's fucked. That's such a good description. I've never even thought of it that way. You can't. Where's the pain coming from? Why am I feeling this pain? Because I can't see it. Yeah. How old were you?

34:4716, 17, when it really hit. 16, 17. And because of a boil, because of what was going on in life? A combination. A combination. I was a troubled kid, rebellious kid, and heartbreak didn't really help. Didn't have my brother around. There was just a lot. There was a lot that contributed to it. Music really helped. Music really helped. You know, everyone around you who loves you is like, you're going to get through it. Man, after the first heartbreak, it's just so funny. And if you're lucky enough to be with the love of your life and you happen to be high school sweethearts and you've never experienced this, goddamn, you should count fucking blessings because the way that there's this, it's almost comical.

35:34Because when you get crushed, all of a sudden there's like, if you're lucky and you have a community of people, there's this like onslaught of heads that come around and you're looking up and everyone's like, it happens to everybody oh don't worry about this oh there's more fish in the sea oh this is normal and everyone tries to convince you that it's like a norm and it is for a lot of people a rite of passage your first fucking heartbreak but it's hard not to doubt what they're saying when they say you'll get through it you're great you deserve someone because to you I mean for me at least I received it like oh but you love me you're speaking to me with bias how do you know that I'm gonna be how do you know that you don't fucking know and and you think i'm great because you love me so you i couldn't even i can't trust your word so it felt like i couldn't even find comfort in their constellations but when i heard comfort in music from someone objective that was able to detail the same pain i was like oh fuck maybe i'm not alone as a cliche as cheesy as it is but it made me feel, she made me feel not alone.

36:39What was that song? Who was that artist? Amy. Amy Winehouse. Back to Black hit like a fucking, like a bag of bricks. Yeah. Yeah. But all her songs, like, so many of her songs. But Back to Black hit like a son of bricks. Do you ever meet her? I wish. I wish. No. In heaven. In the spirit world, maybe we'll jam together one day. But no. Not in this life. My friend, he just bought the house next to her old house. Oh, shit. In North London. Wow. And what is so kind of beautiful, but is that the amount of people that come in graffiti and like write messages on the wall. And for the owners of the house, they're a bit like, can we stop doing this?

37:25Can we stop doing this? But also they respect that. What an incredible. Legacy. Legacy. Yeah. That is a legacy. That's a legacy. Yeah. because you're huge on legacy i'm huge on legacy yeah i like it i like it as a north star why explain that uh it makes life a bit more defined helps me make better choices helps me think of i don't know just making sure i could leave the world better than i found it somehow i don't know the people that you know of course making the people that love you proud making the people that fucking sweat for you and sacrifice for you and we're in the gutters with you proud and making them happy and making sure everyone's cool with all the success you can get and all the fame, the money the awards, whatever it is, that is not yeah that's fun but that's not really what we kind of want in the end, what we want is to make our people that we love and care about proud of us and like you said I want both for the record but yeah I want a little bit of a little bit of column A a little bit of column B yes you didn't mention that so okay so okay so we want to but you're right but you're right it's the it's the core the heart of it the heart of it is the sentimentality yes because I heard that all you want to do is you want to buy your dad a farm and you want to set up an orphanage for your mom yeah that is beautiful thank you thank you the farm fucking came and went because I've been trying and my dad's like Like he's not, because I got to the point where I could.

39:02Thank God. I got to the point where I could. And I was like, all right. And we went to go look. Anyways, it's a long story. But ultimately he was like, I think I'm okay. Wait, why was he okay? Because I got a spot up north that's like a lot more chill. It's right by the water. It's low maintenance. A farm is a lot. The way I want it to is like I want some horses. I want some goats. Maybe someday still. But my drive to do it with urgency was for him. And he pretty much took the took his foot off the off the pedal and was like, you can chill. It's fine. I'm good.

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41:17What was your first breakup that you remember? First breakup. What was your first heartbreak? My first heartbreak? Well, that was the depression one. Was that the depression one? Yeah. Yeah, that's why I got fucking thrown into oblivion. Otherwise, it wouldn't have hit that much. But my first heartbreak came young. And that was my first love. And that shit rocked me. That shit rocked me. But... Because you don't even understand it, do you? You don't understand it. But so many good stories came from that. So many good stories came from that. Because I was a maniac. And... and shit happens how it's supposed to happen it was more so the craziest thing wasn't so much me in a relationship it's me freshly out of it that's the one that you shouldn't give the gun to why?

42:05because she's nuts because she was nuts that's your passion you know you can't help who you are you're just authentically you right? that's who it is but I'm much better now I don't resort to violence I get that yeah much better now Talk about music, okay, because I'm so with you where you say that like without being out of... But the reason... It's so funny you use that term. I swear to God, and Jemima can also vouch for this. The reason I started my sort of production company and do stuff like this is because I always say I want to vomit creativity into a bucket. Oh, nice. I have always said that.

42:40Because I need to get it out of me. Get it out, yeah. 100%. And so with you and music, and you have collaborated with amazing people, and you have your new album. It's out, right? It'll be out when this comes. It'll be out, yeah. Pay the Memories is out. Let's go. Yeah. Let's go. What is the difference between your music then and your music now? I'm better. I'm a better musician, better artist. I sharpen my pencil. I sharpen my knife. I'm vocal coaches. I study music. I break down lyrics. Come on. Yeah, take piano lessons. I'm just better. What do you think that's because of? Age? Going sober?

43:14Just life? No, drive. My work, I think, is just something that's innate. And my drive to... Actually, maybe, yeah, I'm sure it has to do with the self-work I've done too. I'm just always in pursuit of greatness. Always in pursuit of getting better. And there's always room for improvement. There's a voice note from Sam Smith. Yeah, there's a voice note from Sam Smith. Talk to me about that. I love them. I love them. Love the UK, man. Shit. I told them about some shit I was going through. and yeah just honestly it's just a just two friends talking and and me sending them an update about some fuckery and them sending me back a very sobering sobering consolation which was nice sobering and and it felt like a hug you know someone on your side wow yeah yeah very pertinent to the song too like the song is exactly about the situation I don't even know if I want to well whatever yep anyways nothing but it's just it's just fucked it's a fucked up song fucked up situation fucked up story but it's what it is you can tell me about it if you want no that's fair yeah I tried thanks it's in the song here we go Jesse what's so funny is you're now getting emotional because you can feel it again yeah yeah very surface they're easily accessible you don't let go of emotions oh my god I wish I could I try it's like a it's like a it's like a draw like a present draw like of just these emotions that you keep but that's a good thing as well I think what do you mean a present draw well I don't know I don't know why I described it my mom always had a draw which was like full of like oh yeah yeah yeah I thought you meant like a present draw like a present draw no no no like a but you keep gifts and stuff like that and you have like a draw of emotions that you just can't let go of yeah it's like a suitcase that I wish I could kick and that's why you you have to write about it you have to create because otherwise they don't get out.

45:13They just stay there. Yeah, I think so. Maybe that's it. Talk to you about M &M. A fucking legend. Come on. Yeah. Oh my God. A legend. It was a beautiful opportunity to be able to have not just made a song, not just made two songs, but like shot videos and... What? Yeah, mad sick. Mad sick. What would young Jessie say about that? I remember being in the theater watching 8 Mile. Yeah. I used to... I used to rap. Yeah? Gifts?

45:45Made some raps No I used to rap Mockingbird The whole time I'm always tempted To do it But I'm not gonna do it But I've made some raps Yeah Everything's gonna be alright How should I Shit How nice But wasn't it his daughter Who found you Yeah She's great But tell me this You know she's Craigle I heard this. I heard this. Yeah, yeah. But tell me, so what happened? He had seen me on a late night show, thought it was dope. But then time passed. Like it was just like, I don't know if it was internal, but like, oh, she's sick. Cool, cool. And then left it at that. And then months later, his daughter pretty much followed up on my behalf and was like, yo, Jessie's popping.

46:29She did it on a late night. Y 'all should link. Y 'all should create. She's dope. I'd like to imagine that that's how it was said. I don't know if that's how it was said verbatim. That's exactly how it was said. Let's go. there's also one thing because I know we don't have too much time but I want to talk about it because I think it's important you being a a woman in the industry as well that's tough for lots of reasons but you also had a moment where a producer tried to take advantage of you and you spoke about it incredibly brave to do that and to be open about it and when you spoke about it you didn't mention any names because you didn't want to mention any names.

47:08And then what you realized is other people came out and spoke about that same person. What was that experience like for you when you could finally feel like you were brave enough to open up about what happened? The first time without names, it felt very natural because I feel like I'm always forthright with my experiences. The only thing I really had to... The only thing I really was hesitant with was the reaction my family was going to have because I didn't want them to think that it... The worst case scenario didn't happen. It could have gotten way fucked, but the worst case scenario didn't happen that night.

47:39And I wanted to let them know and also wanted to let them know that shit could be dark for a minute because he was obviously in a position of power, had way more influence than I did. So shit could go left, but I needed to put the song out and that they shouldn't worry about what it detailed because what it detailed is what it was and it didn't go to hell. um fuck the after when names started coming out and and other women started coming forward that was a difficult time because a when I made it I was a lot younger and I was didn't have like it

48:19there's a lot of fear involved there's a lot of fear involved so many people don't believe women so many people some people don't believe women or so many people immediately go to like well what was she wearing that night well why were you out well why were you like just these fucking arguments that try to try to um try to induce more doubt and judgment towards the victim as opposed to empathizing so there was a lot of fear but then when women came forward it was it was even more difficult because that fear turned to guilt because I wish that I had been forthright with the name prior to because then maybe certain situations could have been avoided after me.

49:05But what's fucked up is the women that, the women, some of the women that came forward were prior to me and some of the women that came forward were after me. So it had been happening, not that that justifies it. And also not that I'm trying to dump on my guilt because I also hold space for myself.

49:21Because something that they don't have the strength to provide and if I didn't have the strength to provide and and I also didn't want to make it about him either because I wanted the song to just speak for itself and and and not it becomes less universal when you do that but that was that was uh it's a it's a it's a it's not mental gymnastics but it's definitely a mental battlefield it was a mental battlefield when that happened because then it was like reliving it all over again but now with another element of guilt because it almost made me feel like I should come forward about it sooner yeah but i think it's brave of you to come out and say that and that behavior needs to be called out 100 yeah yeah thank god it's it's it ties ties have shifted not completely but ties have shifted where people are calling it out where where it's also not just women where more men are allies luckily and more men are more forthright we're calling it out when when they see fucked up bitch-ass behavior i want to say thank you firstly thanks Thanks for having me.

50:20We like to end it with eight quick fire questions. Oh, let's do it. I'm excited. Are you ready for this? Fuck yeah, I am. This is going to be great. I can't wait. Need for speed. Let's rage. Here we go. What's the saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? Hold these nuts.

50:38Fuck.

50:42Best compliment anyone's ever given you?

50:47Dig deep. that I come on you can say it wow crazy you can't think of one I'm trying to think of the best I'm trying to think of the one that like shook me I'm trying to think of one that stood and I'm also trying to like weigh out weigh out give me a few thinking a few I'm thinking? one was that I'm really that I'm really like astute when it comes to giving someone advice like I'm really fucking good for it And it's so funny because I wish I could take my own so often. But when someone else's life is laid on in front of me, I could see, I just have clarity. I have a lot of, I'm gifted with clarity.

51:27And it's been nice to hear that multiple times from people where they're like, fuck, you give great fucking advice and direction for choices. Another one has been on my creativity. just really really good connection to wherever it comes from and how fast it can come and how good my retention is because I have a really good memory when it comes to like I don't like writing songs down anymore I just go you just go? just go I saw it Lil Wayne does that as well yeah he just does it that's unbelievable that's a good one what scares you most about yourself? Jesus Christ I know it's a big one but what else?

52:07what scares you most about yourself? my depth big yeah my depth my depth of love my depth of hate my depth great one when was the last time you cried? fucking right now talk about whiskey what's something you can't let go of? grudges just kidding yeah it's okay I got a shit list I'm gonna die with what's your what's your guilty pleasure just kidding no wait a minute I can let go what's something I can't let go of can't let go of yeah what's something I can't let go of alone time solitude I can't let go of solitude yeah what's your guilty pleasure cartoons that's a great one yeah I love South Park loves Bob's Burgers so much yeah what turns you off lack of eye contact immediate no yeah that's a good one media no what turns you on?

53:10eye contact intelligence intelligence and heightened awareness when someone can pick up details what do you like most about yourself? my brain that's great one more if a young woman is listening to this right now and you're her inspiration and she's getting into the industry what advice would you give her? fail faster don't be scared of trying new things find out where your weaknesses are try to make friends that are just as apt as you and as hungry as you and also figure out where you want to aim learn to objectively criticize yourself put yourself in situations where you're constantly getting criticized so that your skin can get thicker because if you're more successful it's going to be more eyes more eyes mean more criticisms and if those criticisms get to you you're going to break so just put yourself in situations where you have rejection therapy where you have where you can smile when someone critiques you and it's your choice whether or not you want to take it constructively or whether or not you want to dash it and be like no thanks asshole and and make sure that you're also cognizant of your the state of your soul and the state of your peace because to achieve so much success but have lost that it's fucking worthless you're gonna make sure that's intact so you can actually enjoy enjoy what you're working for let's go jesse this has been amazing final one favorite swear word give it to me Fuck.

54:30Let's go. Jessie, you've been the greatest. I really appreciate you being amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. This was great. Thank you.

54:42Wow. That was so good. Yeah, it was great. It was great. Fari, interesting, amazing. And also... The energy. Wow, yeah, yeah. The energy's good. And also, she's one of these people... For those of you who are just listening to this, her emotion is like dripping off her. It's such big emotions. But it makes me think like, do some people just have bigger emotions than others? Like, why is that? She just feels it too much. And I love when she's like, I couldn't, like music and art like saved her. You know, like, because otherwise she was like, I would have exploded. She has almost too much emotion.

55:14She needs to get rid of some emotions. Well, that's like through her art. It comes out. Yeah. There's certain people that you sit with and you can feel their energy. And I think I'm a real, I can feel people's, you could feel her energy she she's great in every way and she has a lot of love to give and she's fiery as hell and so talented like the way that she was speaking it was just like poet so many things we were like that's a lot that could be a line yeah she's great and she is a poet she wrote a she wrote a poetry book which we didn't even mention and also i'd like to say one of those episodes is the episode where i could have gone on for hours same but her time you know with these sort of superstars their time you know we only have a sort of an hour an hour and a half with them sometimes.

55:55She was going into sessions. She was going into music session. And she was recording with Calvin Harris. I know. Which is amazing. Anyway, ladies and gentlemen, I want to say a big thank you for tuning in once again to the episode. Thank you, Jemima, for being here. Thank you, James. Thank you for being here, actually. If you haven't subscribed to the show, please do remember we always release every Wednesday a new episode. So next Wednesday we're going to have another one. Let us know if you want us to pick any guests. We'd love to hear from you what you think, who we should be chatting to next.

56:24Also, we're on social media, YouTube, TikTok. And of course, you can send us an email, greatcompany at jampopproductions.co.uk. Everything is in the show description. And we'll see you next week. See you next week. Goodbye. For Great Company. Great Company.

56:54Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams. Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine.

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