JILL SCOTT: Bullied For Being The Only Girl On The Football Pitch & Why It Made Me Determined Not To Quit

0:00Coming up in this episode of Great Company. You had a pretty tricky time with not only other kids, but also other parents. Comments from the side would be, going hard on her. Break her legs. Felt like a weakness if you said you were getting bullied. I remember being like, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry. Why did you keep playing football?

0:20I'm Jill Scott and I'm in great company. It's Scott who draws a luck. Bonito! Jill, you've had 161 caps for England. I played against some of the best players in the world, Alexia, who plays for Spain, Bom Matty. You got caught on camera shouting something at a German player. I did say...

0:44That's not too bad, is it? Has there ever been a time when you felt like you did let yourself down? We were playing this game in the cup final and I actually got sent off and we lost that game. You headbutted someone? It's a long walk down the tunnel and back to the changing rooms. It felt like the longest walk of my life. I think that was a moment where I was like, I've let the team down here. So have you ever had times where you have felt a little low or anxious? Wow. Yeah, it's been a bit of a journey. I think I always thought I was a strong person by not showing my feelings. I was like, what am I even doing on this football pitch?

1:20What? I still get that now. Why do you have imposter syndrome?

1:32Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Laying, and this is Great Company.

1:39Hey, guys. Welcome back to Great Company. Now, if you are a new listener, welcome to the show. I'm your host, Jamie. And if you're an OG listener, welcome back to the show. You know what we're in for. We have Jill Scott on today, which I cannot tell you how excited I am for this. I've been a fan of hers for a long time. I've been following her journey and all the sort of accolades and success she's had. On screen, she seems to be this really fun, entertaining, lovely person. I can tell you this, off screen and in real person, she's exactly the same person. And today we're going to learn so much from her about resilience, about teamwork, about graft, about failure.

2:15So get ready for it. Don't forget to stick around at the end of the episode where I'm going to speak a little bit more about what I learned. But before then, and I know I say this every single time, so please don't get bored of me. But if you can do me one favor before we start the show, and that is if you can click subscribe. It does us so many wonders I cannot explain. I tell you this every single time, but it really does. It keeps us making the show that you like, and it keeps us allowing to get the guests that we want to get. If you can do that one thing for us, I promise you will keep making the show that you love.

2:44Okay, enjoy this episode of Great Company with the amazing Jill Scott.

2:53I'm Jill Scott and I'm in great company With the overlap, it's Roy Keane, it's Gary Neville It's yourself and... Jamie Carragher and Ian Wright Okay, so if I had to say snog... Oh God, I'm not snogging any of them And I'm not marrying any of them You have to, you have to You have to Snog you have to snog okay who would you snog out of that lot out of all the podcasts I do I'll snog Kaz Carney if I had to snog marry a void either Roy Keane Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher I would snog Roy Keane okay I don't know why you're looking at us like is he a good kisser I know I'd marry Gary Neville because I think he's he's quite wealthy I reckon what just for the money Well, it's not for the love of it, is it?

3:50And I would probably avoid Jamie Carrigan. They are all happily married, by the way, so they might not have room for you.

4:06So when's the most nervous you've ever been? What, in life ever? In life, do you think? Oh, that's a good question. I was actually at an awards evening the other night and I had to make a speech. and I thought I was going to be okay but I found that really nerve-wracking you know when you stand up and you look out and it's just all light and you can't make out someone's face yeah so yeah I get quite nervous if I've got to do like a speech or something like that but it's crazy because I do like motivational talks and I'm fine doing that but I found this really nerve-wracking the other day you thought I was going to say like yeah playing at Wembley or something like that but But yeah, I think when it's...

4:46Why is it? Why? Because that feels out of your... But it shouldn't be out of your comfort zone because you're a motivational speaker. Yeah, I think because I was actually receiving an award, I don't like all the attention being on me sometimes. So I think it was a little bit of that. But when it comes to football, I'm sure it's just the same as you with your work. Because it's something you practice every single day. I was kind of all right when I played football because I had belief that I would always have this thing where I'd think of three things that I was confident that I could bring to the team when I played football.

5:21So I always knew I could nail someone in a tackle. I knew I could run because I did a lot of practicing, running and being fit. So I used to just bring these things to the game and then I kind of wouldn't get overwhelmed with the situation. So that was probably a coping mechanism, really. That's a really good tactic. So when you're, for anyone listening, if they're in a situation, you think of three things that you know you can bring to the table. Yeah. Like these three things. Yes. Because then it focuses you so you don't get overwhelmed with the sort of whole thing that's going on. Yeah, exactly.

5:51Because there was girls in the team that obviously could do different things to me, like score goals, do skills and stuff like that. And if I thought, oh God, I'm going to have to do that today, I'd be thinking I'm not going to be able to achieve it. So yeah, I'd kind of nail them three things and then grow into the game really. So yeah. So you've had... 161 caps yeah for England yeah it's a lot that is mad yeah I can't believe it actually sometimes when I sit and talk about it because when I was a young girl who just fell in love with the game of football I never thought I'd play one game for England never mind 161 so yeah I am I am very very proud of that stat when I when I reflect are you actually proud because sometimes we just kind and say I do this occasionally which is where I think it's the it's the Britishness in this but also being a northern Brit as well it's even more so you don't do it right which is where so long as you're proud I go yeah of course I'm proud of myself but actually I don't really know if I'm proud of myself I just kind of said are you truly proud of yourself yeah with that one I am I think because and maybe it's because you're still going in your profession whereas that part Part of my kind of life is over now, football.

7:08So I feel like I've closed the door on it. And maybe when I played, I was like, wow, I'm playing for England. But I was so focused on just giving it everything that I had to put in good performances to try and contribute to a team win. But I think now that that chapter has been closed for three years, I think I've been able to reflect and kind of seen little clips back of like tournaments, the Euros win and stuff like that. And I think I can probably finally sit here now and say, I am proud that I did that. And don't get us wrong. I mean, I'm proud of the whole team. I'm proud of women's football, especially reflecting back on the journey to getting the Euros win, but probably just proud of being part of such a big thing like that.

7:51When you have to close the door on something. Yeah. How hard is that? It wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be from the sense that it was the perfect ending for me. the fact that we got that gold medal at Wembley I think it felt like the right time to close the door I felt like if I was closing it after that it would have been like a rusty close where my body couldn't go anymore my knee was starting to swell and I was carrying a lot of injury so it was just nice to probably just give that door a little push and be like right it's time for the next chapter and I knew deep down that tournament I didn't play a lot I was on the bench and in training I felt like the game was just starting to get away from us a little bit you feel that as a professional you can start to go wow yeah I think when you've got players like Ella Toon, Alessia Russo, Lauren Hemp who were younger and they're coming through and they're dancing around you at times like you're not there and I'm like my head really wanted to do something that my body probably couldn't anymore.

8:52But I just felt extremely lucky that I'd made that squad. And the fact that I played about 35 minutes in the final, I kind of liked that. I was involved to a certain extent. When you went onto the pitch for that final against Germany, did you know in your head, you're like, right, I'm just going to, you had three things, I'm going to run, that's okay, but I'm going to just be a bit aggressive. I'm going to get someone to know that they played against me, they're going to feel a bit like roughed up i was dying to get on because uh kira walsh georgia stanway they'd literally ran every single minute in midfield so they'd done about six seven games and i my legs felt fresh because obviously i hadn't played a lot and i could see they were starting to cramp a little bit and rightfully so they'd covered so much ground probably 11k game they covered so i was like get us on like i want to help i want to help so i was excited to come on to the pitch and I was like I'm just gonna run as much as I can get in people's faces make it difficult and I think that was my game really when I look back I played against some of the best players in the world um Alexia who plays for Spain and Barcelona, Bon Matty and these were players that were absolutely brilliant but my mindset was you know what today I'm just gonna try and make you average just get in your face rough you up and that was kind of my game plan really so yeah to get on the pitch in that final I just wanted to run for the girls that had ran for so long when you win something that big yeah it's like an out-of-body experience right yeah it it was just it was ridiculous I remember me Lucy Bronze Demi Stokes I think was sat on that pitch for about an hour and a half after just looking at the fans and just thinking wow and I remember thinking we're never going to get this moment again and then the girls go and do it again three years this is the best team ever no one's gonna do this again i think i remember saying to them girls take this in because this is once in a lifetime and they're probably thinking we're gonna go and win it again in three years time so maybe i was just talking to myself then but yeah best feeling in the world do you think that looking back at it is that proudest moment of your life yeah yeah and I think whatever happens I said to my I actually said this in my speech the other day when I I won this award and my partner Shelly was there and I said it was the best day of my life and it definitely will be and I actually said to her on stage I am sorry Shelly like if we want to get married or have children hopefully um I was like it'll probably still be the best day of my life is that a bad thing to say no not at all I know you've mentioned this before but you've you got caught on camera yeah although that sentence could go anywhere so i'm glad i'm glad it's going where it's going i don't know what you were thinking yeah yeah yeah you're caught on camera doing what how did you get that video

11:56caught on camera shouting something at a german player yeah yeah can you can you repeat it what um is this podcast oh yeah you can say anything you want in this okay so i did say fuck off you fucking prick and you know what i don't even swear in day-to-day life like honestly i used to live my house used to be like right on a park and if the kids were swearing in the street i'd be like watch your language there's like smaller kids around and you shouldn't be swearing so i hate swearing but in that moment I felt like the camera did not do me justice that day so basically she had my leg trapped and I couldn't get away so I was just getting so angry and then I stood up and I don't even think them words are in my vocabulary I actually don't know where they came from but I must have just been so passionate so emotional and then yeah and I remember getting home a couple of weeks later I was probably partying for that amount of time and I think I told one of the kids on the park I was like what's your language and they were like you can talk so I was like I won't be saying that ever again um but yeah I think it was just a outburst of passion has there ever been a time when you felt like you did let yourself down um probably when you've just asked us that question suddenly like there was a couple of times in my career when I got sent off and that was probably more the case of letting myself down but also the team so I remember we had a cup final at Wembley it was actually when Covid was so there was nobody there but we were playing this game Man City v Chelsea in the cup final and I actually got sent off and we lost that game and it's a long walk down the tunnel and back to the changing rooms when there's a crowd there I tell you now it's so long when there's no crowd there it felt like the longest walk of my life and you're just hearing your stance go down oh honestly and then you sat in the changing rooms and usually you can't hear anything because of the crowd but I could hear every kick of the ball every goal that went in and yeah I think that was a moment where I was like I've let the team down here because if we'd kept 11 on the pitch I believe we would have won that game so probably when you ask that question that's the first thing that comes into my head wow it reminds me and I don't know why I know you're one of your heroes David Beckham yes I love David Beckham oh man he was yeah the him and Johnny Wilkinson because obviously I'm a rugby player as you know number 10 did you do the kicks?

14:23I did the kicks number 10 fly half it was a fullback just you know I was multi-talented just on the field put me anywhere but that moment I still remember when he got the red card yes in the World Cup yeah and you know he spoke about it in his document he went through a whole hell of it but just forget about what fans think and what everyone thinks outside of the media letting your team down in that moment when you make a mistake and you know it's just a moment of frustration or anger and you lash out or do something stupid. Yeah. And you just realise that, why have I done that? I must say this shouldn't have been a red card, just to clarify.

14:59It was a really bad refereeing decision. What did you do? One of them was actually... Head butted. Yeah, I did do that once actually. That was my other sending off. But I didn't put my head back and forward. I just kind of put it forward. I don't know if that's any better. But yeah. Wait, hold on, hold on. I wasn't going to bring this one up. That's why I went to the other one. Let's park the other one for a second. Okay, yeah, it's a bit boring, that one. So you headbutter someone? Yeah, but again... Like Zidane style? No. Again, the girl was kind of like punching us in the stomach at the time and then she put her head towards me.

15:39And I must say, it is a natural human reaction. If I put my head to you now, you would meet my... I'm not saying you'd headbutt us, but you would meet my head. So in some kind of contact, I'm not getting out of this. But yeah, basically I got sent off. That was against Arsenal. But that's my only two sending offs. That's not too bad, is it? Do you think you've always been competitive? Because I say that because you were a cross country runner when you were younger and you won the London Mini Marathon when you were 14 years old. Yeah. you obviously played a lot of football where does that competitive nature come from i'm not too sure i grew up with an older brother who was i was going to say about three years older than us he still is three years older than us because it does change you get older yeah exactly he's now younger than me everyone thinks we're twins and i'm like he's three years older than me but um i think i always wanted to be better than him and he was fast he could play football and whatever he could do I wanted to do better even if we were playing like FIFA on the computer or anything like that I was a really really bad loser but I think when I speak about being competitive I always wanted to win but I think it was more I just wanted to do the best that I could do I never wanted to like let myself down and that's something that's probably stuck with us like I put a lot of work in to whatever I'm doing because I just want to do the best that I can do and I remember a football manager saying to us one year he said whatever you do just look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day and think could I have done any more today and that stuck with us it was Nick Cushion who was Manchester City women's manager and that stuck with us so I like to think like I don't actually stand in front of the mirror every night and go Jill could you have been better today but it's something it's something that I always think did I prepare right um did I do the best that I could and yeah so I think it's a competitive kind of nature with myself in a way as well the healthiest one yeah I think so yeah I think so I because I I remember speaking to a therapist and the therapist said to me um and I said I think the problem with like life at the moment is like and I was probably around 29 30 I was like I'm comparing myself to so many people yeah and like people who I work with or people who I know and people are doing better or worse I'm constantly looking what people are doing and she said why are you doing that I said well because that's that I compare I see what I'm doing she says no you just got to compare yourself to yourself yeah if you're doing better than you were doing yesterday or better than you were doing last year that's the most important thing that means you're doing better so keep doing that yeah and I think we can get caught up because of social media now like constantly thinking our lives aren't good enough and comparing to everybody else like somebody does a post and you think oh they had a better week than me or they'll put something on you think oh well I haven't got that but I think I've always been quite good at like I love to see other people doing well I'm like oh that's brilliant and I think in football I used to always say you don't compete with each other like if we all do well we can get to whatever you perceive to be the top together and yeah it might happen at different times for different people but I just always wanted to be a better version of myself and I think in society today we probably could be better at supporting others and that I hear loads of people when they say um oh so-and-so did really well and oh so-and-so looks great and I'm the person that'll go and find that person and tell them like I'll meet people and I'll go you know what somebody said to me last week like how beautiful you look and you're doing so well and because I think we're not very good at actually telling the person sometimes so I think when people meet us for the first time I think I'm a bit weird because I'm like you know so-and-so from down the road they said you look beautiful last week on telly that's amazing though i my my buddy told me the same thing he said what i do now if i'm talking about someone yeah with someone i always message and say we've just been talking about you uh we think you're amazing at this then i said that's such a nice thing because we love being told nice things and we don't really we forget to say to people oh my god a friend was saying you're looking beautiful the way you played was amazing or the fact that you inspired me here that's a really and that knock-on effect is so nice yeah I do think it's an important thing and I don't know why we don't do it as much now.

20:06I'm not too sure, but I do try to. I've heard you speak about when you were younger, you had a pretty tricky time with not only other kids, but also other parents. Yeah. Because shouting things like break her legs when you were playing football. And even one time you were crying so much, you couldn't even see because there were so many tears in your eyes. Yeah, I think I bumped into an old football manager recently. it was one of the boys dads and he was so lovely with us and it was back in the day where you used to have to beg steal and borrow to try and get a lift to training and I was only nine ten years old but my mom didn't drive um four children it was difficult sometimes to be taking them everywhere whereas now I feel like parents are at absolutely everything aren't they like if they've got three kids they'll go to three different events sometimes in one night so sometimes I'd be there without my mom and he would always look after us he was lovely but I think because I was quite decent at football if I ever took it past people's precious sons or nutmeg them or did something good they would just get so mad and the comments from the side would be going hard on her and you've got to think I was nine years old and I remember being like don't cry don't cry don't cry but then I'd be getting tackled quite hard and yeah the tears would come so he recalled the other day having to take us off in a game and he was like you'll be okay and I was crying my eyes out and I missed the rest of the game but I always say that I always went back to training on a Tuesday there was nothing that was going to stop us from playing and I think that was when resilience was kind of building inside of us and I kind of became a little bit immune to comments but it took us a long time to get there there was so many moments at senior school when I don't know if you've ever when you've ever had it when you're with your friends and you're walking and you just see certain groups of people and you know they're going to say something to you and you're so embarrassed and it'd just be like she's a man she's a man because you played football and it sounds something so small but it was something that I carried with myself like throughout school so yeah that bit was tricky but I never told anybody about it I never told my mum or anything like that because it also went back to a time which I'm so glad this has changed for so many different reasons but we were always told to like be brave be strong like where you face the right way and stuff like that whereas I think children now I was talking to my niece the other day and I think they walk into a classroom and they get told to tell people how they're feeling are you a little bit anxious today are you happy are you sad and I think that's so important but I know when I was younger I don't know if it was the same for you but I think it was always a weakness it like it felt like a weakness if you said you were getting bullied or whatever else just keep it in yeah I wouldn't say you wouldn't say a word no definitely so um I'm glad times have changed but yeah I think I was definitely building a resilience from a very young age there's a hard balance though joe right because you want like i would building that resilience is important yeah and you want to be strong and you want to be tough and you want to be able to take the shit that had that life throws at us yeah because it does life is like this the whole time it's up and down so you have to have that but also there's a balance to be able to like talk about your feelings and be open and be emotional which i don't think we had no definitely so it's a hard balance to to get there we don't want everyone to be so not resilient over emotional yeah over emotional we also want that resilience to be there so it's a hard balance to sort of strike yeah I think I always thought I was a strong person by not showing my feelings but then as I got older I really admired the people that I played with in a team that could go you know what I'm struggling today like I'm not feeling great this has been happening at home and and then I realized you know what they're the strong people I'm probably quite weak for keeping everything inside and as my career went on I definitely got better at probably creating a little bit of a circle of friends very close friends where I felt like I could speak honestly and even now Shelley will say to us she'll go whenever I ask you if you're all right you just go yeah I'm fine and I think yeah because I am but I suppose even if I did have something going on I'd probably think I'll try and deal with it myself first and then if I can't then I'll probably bring it to the table so I think I have changed a little bit but I think it comes from probably a being young and probably getting bullied for playing football and two probably well a and b not a and two a and b and b probably being from kind of a generation where it wasn't the thing to do I suppose it's funny I my my partner as well says to me um she says you're never honest about your feelings I am honest and she's well you kind of are honest so she says when if you're feeling anxious you'll tell me you're feeling anxious but sometimes you won't even say that and she says I think it's because sometimes you don't even understand what you're feeling because you've buried it so much for so long that you just don't and yeah like you sort of like myself yeah what's the point of me burdening you and she says well because I I want you to burden me because it doesn't affect me it just lets me understand what you're going through otherwise I'm in the dark the whole time yeah and it's hard right no that's so true that is true but I yeah and I think sometimes I remember like with anxiety and stuff like that probably not really knowing how it felt like probably after I played football I think when I played football because I don't know if it's the same as you but when you exercise I always feel in a better mood and it was when I stopped playing football and I wasn't training very much and I felt like I started to feel all these emotions and I was like why is my mood low today and then I realized Jill you're gonna have to do some kind of training I kind of took it for granted that I was exercising every single day so I think when I train it stops us from overthinking as well because I'll probably get it all out as I go for a run or something like that so have you ever had times where you have felt a little low or anxious um yeah I think so definitely probably anxious maybe post career I've I've gone into some situations that have been like really good and really exciting and I'm trying to think of an example probably doing say a league of their own and suddenly I got the opportunity to be a team captain on there and I probably didn't realize the magnitude of the show like I'd watched it but then I think that first day when I actually sat down and there was a live audience and I had Jimmy Carr next to us there was Ramesh, Jamie Redknapp, Micah Richards and I remember being like shit this is like this is pretty big and suddenly you've got to like try and be funny or try and like chip in and you're with these absolute like experts of comedy so I think there's moments there where I'm like right this is sink or swim time but then I also think then moments are what kind of make you grow as well because once I'd went through that I was like oh you know what I'd with each episode I felt more comfortable so that would probably be an example I would say retiring though as well that's a big like shift in your life and I always think this was sports you know with professional sports people right it's you spend your whole life doing something and dedicating your life to it and you you know from you were playing football from what age uh like five from five years old yes so 30 years of playing football that's what you do and then you you get to you know you 35 or whatever it is and you suddenly stop playing that's like when life normally begins i feel like life for me is starting to begin but you've always lived a life before a life and then you've done amazing because you you can go and do tv shows and you you're you you're a pundit and you can stay in the mix of it but a lot of sportsmen don't get to do that they then just have to stop and they have to find a new career doing something and no wonder they're then because that problem with people feeling anxious or down or low mood or whatever it is yeah I do feel so lucky I think when I finished playing I never really had a plan I had my coaching badges and I love coaching but it's something that kind of life took us in a different direction I suppose um the jungle came up straight away it's like do you want to go on I'm a celebrity get me out of here and I was like well I'm not doing anything so I might as well so that I think that was a a great experience it was a it was a difficult one at times but it was a good experience for me and then yeah just suddenly opportunities started coming along and still to this day I'm sure it's the same for you when you get a call to say you've been offered work I'm just very grateful because there's a lot of people that do retire and maybe them calls don't come or they're trying to look for that next job so yeah it's been been a bit of a journey.

28:57Going back to school and you're in that moment when you know the kids are being mean and the parents are being mean why did you keep playing football I just loved it I honestly I just loved it and I even think back to when I was five and think what made us what is that moment that ball I know my auntie liked playing football obviously she's like uh 20 25 years older than me and she liked playing football at school but obviously it was the time when women and girls just didn't play football obviously the FA had banned girls from playing football I didn't know that yeah so they were banned from a period of time for for playing so I think for what reason I'm not even sure of the exact reason it was just a thing that come about and there was a whole generation before that where they were going away they were playing in world cups there was 70 ,000 people in the 70s I think it was in Mexico called watching the women's game and then obviously this ban came into place so it kind of set the game back so many years and basically so my auntie was part of that generation so she used to actually take us to the beach in the park and we used to play football and and she was pretty decent and so I don't know if my love for her kind of come from then because she would babysit us and probably wouldn't think twice about oh we'll have a little kick about with the ball but I just loved I loved playing football and it probably took us a couple of months at school because I was only five years old so you're in like reception where I was like wait a minute I'm I'm the only girl playing football here so and then it hit us that I was probably a little bit different apparently the ban was because the FA deemed football unsuitable for women to play there you go that's the reason but I do always think I know it is isn't that mad it is mad because even now when people go oh it's so good the opportunities that young girls have got I actually try and remove all the emotion and think about it so logically and I think but who said football wasn't for girls do you know what I mean like it yeah it is mad I think there's no other word for it but I am somebody who likes to look at the positives I always do do that and I'm like we're in a good place now young girls have got the opportunity to play when we finished the Euros there was only actually 44 % of girls given the opportunity to play football in PE, which really astounded me.

31:26I was like, I just thought everybody now had equal opportunity in any sport. So I think that's now up to 80%, 85 % because that was always going to be the Lionesses' legacy to get them numbers up. I don't want to bang that drum though, but what it feels is that 44 % have the opportunity to do it, But I can't imagine how many young girls still feel today that if they play football, the boys aren't going to fancy them or they're going to think they're, you know, too boyish or whatever. So even if they have the skill or the ambition or the competitiveness to go, they won't do it. Yeah. Which upsets me, right?

32:03And there is a big dropout rate from the age of, I think, 13 or 16, I think it is. And I think that's exactly that. obviously like how you look and maybe you start to get introduced to relationships and stuff like that so I think there is definitely a stigma around that um but it's not as if if you play football you have to suddenly be a tomboy or anything like that like there's loads of the girls who play for England that are really into the fashion and it can just be a thing that you're good at a thing that you're passionate about you can be whoever you want to be but isn't that even I know, but isn't it even funny that we sort of sit here together and say, you can be anything if you're...

32:44They would never say that about the men's sport. No, I know. There are other people in the sport, in the men's game, who like this. And it's like, what? Yeah. It's not even a conversation. It has to almost... You have to sort of try and persuade people to go into it because there's so many... It's strange, right? It's sort of irritating. No, it is. It's true. But the thing that makes us so happy sat here is, yeah, I feel so extremely proud that I played for England for 16 years. Like so proud. But the fact that I got the opportunity to play sport, I think for young girls now to get the opportunity to play football, be part of a team, get outside, learn to win and lose.

33:23And I really feel like sport has given me tools for life. Like what? Give it to me. Loads of, like, well, resilience, determination, and probably even things that I don't think about like how you structure your life and stuff like that like I feel like I've got good emotional intelligence so I'll always check in on people I have a sense if I feel like somebody's down or something like that wanting to help people and I think it's not about your child going on to play for England or play at the top level it's about them being a good person and I really feel like sport can teach them that and if you have a daughter the fact that now there's so many opportunities out there for us she can pick from so many things whereas going back 30 years she probably would have felt like she could only pick maybe 10 of things so I think the word opportunity is is so important yeah I think sport taught me that like failure is okay yeah and like if you lose you can go back next week and go again and that that idea of failure was really important to me because I think I think um I think not knowing that not knowing that like if you if you're kind of going through life and you're kind of winning at everything which a lot of kids do right it's like I mean maybe they're good at exams or they're good at this or good at that but sport it's constant up and down because you can't always win and that really taught me a lot yeah and you probably you'll do it a lot with your work like me and Kaz Carney have got long story short podcast I'll give it a little plug no no I was but basically like we just sit there and tell stories about our career but when it's finished like the next week I'll go oh how did it do this week in terms of numbers and whatever else and then I'll sit down I'll go right how can we make it better and I'm constantly trying to make things better now I think if I didn't have that sport background I'd probably be like oh we've done a podcast and we'll do it next week i'm always and i'm sure you're probably the same like you want everything to be the best that it can be and that's a good life skill it comes at the good and bad because when you're obsessed like you are with your podcast um you constantly check it constantly want to know constantly want it to be better the whole time and actually sometimes um it's never good enough yeah and so that's a problem i always find but then when you stop doing something like i said with retirement from football that's probably when you'll reflect and go oh you know what that did well when I did this at this time of my life and it's probably just because you're in the the mix of things and everything's going so quick so yeah sometimes it's nice to you should pause and reflect more that's the sense I'm getting from you

36:05so you grew up in Sunderland yeah and you then started playing for Everton yeah and so you had to drive to Everton which is like a three-hour drive yeah and you'd either have to sofa you'd have to like sleep on people's sofas or just do whatever just to play the the passion and the desire and the commitment to play yeah it's wild that commute I think my nephew gets mad now because he's 17 nearly 18 and he's at college he's like doing a bit of coaching and stuff like that and I always say it when I'm like you know when I finish college at three o 'clock I'd get in my little Peugeot 106 I'd just learned to drive as well I think I had a road map it wasn't the days of like and I knew I had these three motorways A19 onto the A1 onto the M62 and then I'd arrive in Liverpool so you can imagine when you just pass your test it's it's quite a daunting time isn't it and I just had to get a football I'd finished college at three I'd jump in my car I'd drive to liverpool three hours we'd have the it used to take about four hours with traffic we'd have the last training slot which was eight till 10 p.m and then i'd jump back in my car i'd get home i remember it was like one o 'clock in the morning back to sunderland and this is after training as well and then i'd get about six hours sleep and then i'd have to go to college the next day and i was doing that journey probably three times a week i would say but that was on top of like college and stuff like that.

37:40So my kind of academics started to kind of fall off a little bit because my focus did become probably given too much to football. You were so exhausted. Yeah, but I think when I look back now, I go, God, how did you do that? But you know when your reality is just your reality. I wanted to play for Everton so bad. It was such a big move for me. I was playing with international footballers, Farrah Williams, Rachel Brown. I was playing with these amazing players and I wanted to go. And I was just literally felt so lucky to be part of that team. So I did this journey, but it was a journey that kick-started my journey to playing for England and everything else.

38:20And you know what? I made the best friends in that time. We're still friends now. And I think because of the journey we had where some nights I was so tired to drive back, I was like, do you mind if I sleep on your sofa? And yeah, obviously to the girls, not just random people in the street. but yeah I think your reality is your reality and I loved it loved it when was the moment that you realized you wanted to be a footballer as a career I don't feel like there was a moment I feel like I just kept doing this thing and I was so determined to keep getting better at it and then kind of instead of maybe following a path you made a path that's probably the best way to think about it so I felt like I'd get better than an opportunity had come along like signing for Everton and then I'd keep trying to play at a certain level then I got my England call up then Manchester City started their team and they asked me to go so I've always kind of believed in just trying to be the best version of yourself and see what happens and then this amazing journey happened for me which I do think you need a bit of luck as well at the same time And God, when I look back, there was so many better footballers than me when I was younger, when I first played for England.

39:36But you won so many awards. You won player of the year and everything. But I was like, there was so many players where I was like, what am I even doing on this football pitch? What? But again, it went back to... Is that just self-doubt? No, no, honestly. Like in terms of technically, there was players that were so much better than me. But I also had to be like, you know what? You can't run as long as me. So I'm going to just try and run as hard as I can. Could you outrun anyone? Until Lucy Bronze joined the England team, I was fit, but I worked at it. I did work at it. But I thought I'm just going to win the ball back and then give it to the players like Kelly Smith, Rachel Yankee, Karen Carney.

40:15So you just have to, the thing is, like we said before, you can judge other people and compare yourself to other people, but you can all bring something else to whatever you're doing. And I think that's really important. Did you ever get imposter syndrome? I still get that now. Do you really? Yeah, do you get that or not? Yeah, I definitely do. But I get it in certain situations. I get it when I talk about business a lot. Yeah. Even though I kind of know what I'm talking about, I'd still go, I don't know. My toes go off and I go, oh shit, I don't really. Because I feel like sometimes I'm just guessing, which I think a lot of us are doing.

40:51But why do you have imposter syndrome? I think I have it all the time. I think like when I walk in a room and I'm working with certain people and I don't know, I just feel like, wow, I've, because see the guys that I do the podcast with. So take, for example, Roy Keane. In the open up room. He was like, yeah, he was like my idol growing up. So there was like Beckham, Roy Keane, obviously Gary Neville, like watching that Man United team. And then I remember when we first did the podcast, we did a bit of a quiz. and I remember being like there was just a moment where I was like wow I'm sat with these like absolute legends of the game um I don't tell them that too often but I think and once we did a few episodes and obviously then you just kind of become friends and I would like to think that we are friends now but yeah I think it's like working with your idols isn't it and I think you question you go god should I even be here and then you have to kind of like talk yourself through it but no do you know what the the great guys the really are like i feel like since doing the podcast they've all like really welcomed us and obviously they'll tell a lot of stories from their generation of football so sometimes like obviously i wasn't there i was probably watching as a fan isn't it amazing though that you're in that moment you're suddenly with them you're like and and you always your inner child yeah is going what yeah and you know what they'll tell stories and sometimes they'll just like bypass certain things and I'll be like wait a minute did you just say that really happened so sometimes I I feel like I'm getting to hear these stories firsthand and then I can ask a question or kind of bounce off it but yeah but you'll never lose that I think the most I I think what happens in life is I I get this analogy of like you know as kids we used to climb to the top of the tree right and we wouldn't if we fell out whatever we'd get back up we'd go around because we were kind of naive and innocent yeah and that childlike attitude was just amazing that's what got us through life and as we get older we lose that yeah but what you're saying is you still have that childlike energy yeah because you're you're not only a professional but you're also a fan yeah and that sort of inner fan comes out which it does with me and everything I do as well that's the reason why I love podcasting meeting you and other people that inner fan comes out they get excited by it and I think we lose that as we get older oh I get so excited especially with the overlap when we have a guest on as soon as we're finished i'm like who's the guest next week has had some brilliant guests on there we've had david beckham on what was it like when you met him oh yeah it was brilliant i was quite quiet that episode i think i think i was just smelling him i was like you smell so nice snog marry avoid david beckham i'll just snog david beckham i'll just do both of them he smells amazing yeah he smells amazing but um how does he get that though because you must spray it you know when people waft and they yeah i don't know how people do that i spray on and it doesn't like stick on me i don't get it i think you have to find the one that's right for you and also the one that costs half a million pounds that might be it you mentioned that when you were playing at everton that was kind of your favorite time of your life yeah why was that the best time even though you were traveling three hours three hours back like that feels hectic but you're still your finest time i think we just had like really good banter and i remember us being and by the way some of the girls were they were a lot older than me and some of them were full-time lecturers and they were playing for england so they do full-time lectures all week then we'd go away on a saturday because we were playing arsenal away and we'd be on this tiny little bus and then we'd stay over and then they'd get back sometimes early hours monday morning and then they'd just go and lecture all week again so i didn't have as rough a ride as they did really but when i think back to them coach journeys we'd just have so much banter and we'd just be playing these mad games and probably all these just crazy games that you play and i think it was because we weren't probably sat on our phones yeah whereas now if you go on 99 of team coaches I bet they're all just sat on the phones probably not even interacting so I always think if I ever got to manage or coach a team I'd be like when we get back on that coach phones away like interact because that's when you have the best banter and I think that's when the best friendships are formed as well so I just love that I got to experience that with that team and I think that's why we'll always be lifelong friends.

45:21You go from Everton then you go to Man City and you spend a lot of time there and obviously the England squad you've been around a lot of leaders yeah what do you think makes a good leader I think what makes a good leader is when they do it their way and they don't try and do it like somebody else so I've had leaders that were very focal who would get in at half time and they'd be shouting and screaming and telling people what to do then I've had leaders who say like a Kelly Smith who for me is still one of the best footballers England's ever had and she led by example on the pitch so she'd put a tackle in you'd be like I'm gonna back you up and put a tackle in as well but she would never scream she'd never shouted you um so I think yeah I think leaders that are true to themselves I think they have to be true to themselves because I think if not you can see that they're trying to do something different and you don't feel as if it's genuine but I've been around some great leaders and then you look at managers Serena who's had so much success with the Lionesses.

46:23And what I loved about her and what obviously she still does is just that directness. She'll tell you exactly what she thinks of you, exactly what needs to be better. And she doesn't leave any grey areas. So you know where you stand. Yeah, definitely. And I think that is a Dutch mindset, definitely. Really? Yeah, where they're just kind of... It's good though, because then you're not guessing. Yeah, because there's some managers who'll be like, yeah, you played all right today. we'll probably play you next week and then you don't play and you're left so disappointed. Whereas she'd probably just be like that wasn't good enough.

46:56Be better in training and you've got to earn your spot. And it'd be hard to take at the time but you'd be like right, I know what I need to do. And I think that's important. Would you ever want to be a football manager? Not a manager. Why not? I don't think I'd like to be a manager because I think I'd like that kind of rapport with the players. Whereas I think with a manager you'd need to have probably more of a gap whereas say an assistant coach I'd like to be on the grass coaching telling the players when we need it to be better but then also being able to sit, have lunch and probably have a bit of a laugh I think that would be a better role if anybody needs an assistant coach

47:40You spoke about your partner Shelley earlier Yeah. And you mentioned you would like to have kids one day. Yeah. Would you like, you would like to have kids one day? Yeah, definitely. I think, well, I'm 38 now, so I'm getting older. But yeah, I think it's definitely something in my life. I was talking to my mum the other day and it was my nephew actually, he said to us, have you always been a tomboy? And I said, yeah, I was always scraped knees, wanted to be out on my bike playing football. But one thing, when I look back on photos of me, I've always got a doll in my hand I love dolls and like having a pram and whatever else and my older sister's got three kids um and I've always been very hands-on with them since I'm being babies my younger sister's just had a baby as well and I just love babies love kids don't get us wrong when I've had them all overnight and they get up at early hours in the morning and I get to give them back and then I get to go and have a lie in that is a good feeling but I just love kids I I think they're just such a joy to be around.

48:46Shelley's got two daughters as well. So we've been like a family for the last eight years. They're older now. They're not like little kids. But yeah, I just love being around kind of children. And I think you can come home, can't you? And you can think so much has been going on in work. And then you can just get back, maybe watch something on the telly. That's like a kid's TV program. And it just relaxes you. And you look and think, you know what? maybe that wasn't such a bad day at work it's it's amazing I know you know you've spoken about this in the past about you never felt that you had to speak about your sexuality in any way whatsoever no but it feels like in the men's sport it's still something that people don't really talk about yeah I think I've always kind of been somebody where I've never hid away from the fact that me and Shelly are together but I never really wanted to sit down and do a big interview about it because I'm a big believer in if you meet someone and you're happy and you fall in love well that's it like I don't care if you're with a man a woman as long as you're happy um it's fine so it's always been something that I feel like hopefully I've set an example in a way of just maybe doing a post on Instagram or when we got engaged doing a post and saying look we're happy we're engaged and I yeah I don't like to probably sit down and and do this big thing like oh I'm with a woman because I'd like to think that the next generation can hopefully just talk about it like oh I've talked to the parents and say oh I've met a girl or I've met a boy and maybe the parents turn around and say are you happy yes well that's the biggest thing so yeah and I hope Obviously, in the Males game, I know it's not spoke about as much.

50:31And we know that a lot of players think about the stands and the stadiums and maybe the environment that it would cause for them. And that makes us really sad because I think we should be from a generation where... I didn't even think about that. Weirdly enough, I didn't even think about the fans. Yeah. I'm more thinking about locker room and this and that. I didn't even think about being on a pitch and having to deal with the fans, the away fans, and them saying something towards you or whatever it was. Yeah. Being such a, they would think maybe a distraction by, you know, using your sexuality against them.

51:07That would be awful. I don't think it would ever be anything in a locker room. Like being from team situations, I think that team becomes your family. And your family love you, don't they? And they want you to be happy. So, yeah, I don't think it would ever be anything from like within a locker room. But I just can't get my head around when people give people stick for maybe falling in love or meeting someone. I don't get it. I really don't get it. I'm like, as long as you're happy and however that may look, God, it can look a million different ways. I'm like, yeah, I just don't understand it.

51:44I'm so with you. And Joe, and just what you're like a pillar for is just to be yourself. Yeah, exactly. Who drilled that within you, though, to say, like, I'm just going to do, you're going to do whatever. It feels like throughout your career and whatever you've done, it's just like, no, this is who I am. And this is what I want to be. So deal with it. Yeah, I think I'll have to give my mom credit for that because I was third child out of four. And I remember when I was younger saying, I just want to play football. And she probably thought there's no one even really playing football, like women who were probably making a career from it.

52:19But you know what? She never questioned it. she was like if that's what you want to do that's what you want to do and I think I was a very determined young person so she probably thought even if I tell you you're not doing it you're still going to do it but she did give us a lot of freedom I even think about my younger days like I'd come in late because I'd gone to football or and she I feel like she did trust us so maybe we're not really a family that sit we're very close but we'll probably don't sit and talk really deeply about things but I think just the fact that she allowed me to follow this dream that didn't even exist I think I'm really grateful for that and I hope I hope parents can allow the kids to kind of follow whatever the dreams are which I think a lot of parents do now anyway that's it when families are there you they don't have to say that they you know every day that they love you whatever you just know they're there yeah and so you know that they're just going to be there for you whatever happens yeah and I think that's definitely me with my family I don't think we'll probably say I love you and stuff like that but I know if I ever need them if I think back to to my life where maybe I've like needed my sister in a moment she's she's been there in a flash and I think actions speak louder than words don't they one thing people might not know is that you love writing poems yeah I love poems love poems I've written you a poem oh is this for Valentine's or are you going to tell us it now?

53:43This is for Valentine's Day for you. Are you ready for this? Yes. There once was a lioness named Jill. She didn't need to take the pill. Is that the next line? Yeah. Okay. You got it. There was once a lioness called Jill whose midfield play showed mighty skill. With passion and fight, she shone dare night and left fans with heart she would thrill. what is it about poems you love um i've always been into so at school i was always quite good at the creative writing in english but i do think i've got a brain that goes 100 mile an hour sometimes so it sounds really weird but sometimes i'll be walking through to get the train and i'll just be speaking in poems in my head it's serious yeah it's just it's weird sometimes you think that's an adhd thing i think you know what the more i learn about adhd i think i could definitely have have a form of it i think like the overthinking i never really sit still um i don't know if not is not having structure part of that yeah yeah so i think there is certain parts of it but at the same time again i think there's a lot of positivity can can come from having a i don't want to say i've quick breaks I'm not saying I'm super clever but yeah I think creativity um and sometimes I like to just sit on the train and I'll just write a poem and when I was in the jungle actually you stay in a villa for like eight days before you actually go in and it's just you no phones you've got a tv and I remember just sitting one day and I just wrote for about seven hours just constantly and I just wrote like this whole book of poems and it just went all through my life but then what's so weird is I could sit now you could give us a pen and paper and I might not be able to write anything but it is it's that creativity obviously that you love right yeah which is it's like a football where it's like you're building towards something it's the same when you're writing sort of poetry yeah there's something about the creativity behind it then you're left with like a finished product there's something like amazing about that yeah I think yeah you're definitely right it's definitely something to do with process with your podcast long story short what do you love most about it because it's just me and a friend just chatting about stories and we reminisce about the past a lot as well which I love talking about stories from England camp back in the day but then also we'll talk about things that have just happened in the week and it'll just be you don't actually remember all the stuff that happens until you write it down and we'll sit and chat and it'll be like i went for a run in the back garden and i tripped over and then i was looking so i've got a camera in the back garden and you just see me absolutely stacking it when i'm running and there's just all these different things i have and i'm like oh kaz somebody said i could hire a rolls voice car for the week and then i'll just go pick up this rolls voice car and she's like what and then you just give it back and i'm like yeah i'm like my life's so random sometimes but we'll just sitting chatting was so different like me and Kaz like the whole name came from we love telling stories but I'm long she's short and so it all comes from that and I think she's had to really like open up a little bit because at first she'd be telling stories and she'd go Jill can we keep that in or not and I'm like yeah we're keeping it in so it's just fun catching up with a mate and just yeah telling stories Jill can I just say thank you so much for doing this oh thank you to probably make you blush I can tell exactly why you won the jungle oh thank you just of who you are you sort of you wear your heart on your sleeve you're so honest and authentic thank you it's really refreshing to see so thank you so much we'd like to end our conversation with eight quick fire questions okay are you ready for this?

57:39I'm really bad at giving quick fire answers has it just got to be like whatever you think okay what's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? oh erm Oh, that's a very good question. And it's quickfire. Yeah. A phrase that cheers us up. Should we go for a coffee? That makes us very happy. If somebody says we're meeting for a coffee, kickstarts my day. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? I think when I retired, I joked about this recently on the podcast, but nobody ever said you were a great player. you did this so well when you were playing you were technically good but I did get a lot of thank you for being a good teammate and thank you for being there for me so even though I joked about it I am happy that people have seen us as a good teammate What scares you most about yourself?

58:35Oh, that is a good question I do, I get scared about sometimes, like I'm always checking in with my family I think because I live away from home and I have since the age of 17, I think it scares us sometimes that I'm not just like two minutes away from them. So I over-check in. I ring them like every single day. So I don't know if that's something that scares us. Maybe the fact that I'm not close in distance sometimes. When was the last time you cried? Last night, I went to watch Pretty Woman at an open cinema. You know, when you sit on a deck chair, get a blanket and everything. and I was actually crying.

59:16You know which bit I was crying at? You know when she goes in to try and get clothes and she's got the money and they won't serve her? And I just thought, that's so sad. And then when she went back in with all our bags and she was like, you work on commission, right? I stood up and I was like, yeah, girl, you got them. I have seen the movie about 50 times. I did that in Top Gun, the new one, Maverick. I stood up in the cinema and went, yes! I've never done that I did that the other thing I saw I'm not we haven't I can't remember why this popped in my head you know line bikes yes I was coming to work this morning and there was a guy on a line bike and he was loving it so much he slapped his leg really he went yes he was enjoying his line bike so much but what was he loving just the air in the morning he was on a line bike that is so crazy he literally went yes that is so crazy but do you feel like the cinema is one thing that switches you off yes i can i can close off i don't know why the thought about it the eating popcorn i know i switch off yeah yeah what's something you can't let go of um can't let go of well people will probably joke the lionesses because ever since i retired i've been to the world cup with them the next euros with them and i think there was a bit of a running joke going around that like jill's just everywhere I was even in the bus parade going through London.

1:00:42I was working. I was working. I was doing interviews. But I think it became a bit of a running joke. So I can't let go of the lionesses. Fair. What's your guilty pleasure? Chocolate. Oh, I love chocolate. Favourite chocolate? Dairy milk, cabris, just the plain bar. Good shout. Love it. With tea? Yes, with tea. Lapsang sushant? Yes. You took the words right out my mouth. Do you know what else I love as well? and this is really bad, custard cream biscuit. Yeah. And I eat the whole pack. How bad's that? Like 10 biscuits. That's a lot. I know. That's a lot. I just can't stop. You eat the whole pack?

1:01:21Yeah, yeah. What turns you off in general? Turns you off. Are you going to ask what turns us on? Turns us off. You know what? People, when they're just being difficult, like I was on the train the other day and they were bringing, this is a really random example but they were bringing water around and the guy wanted sparkling and the lady was so lovely and she's like i'm really sorry we've ran out but we've got still and he was like why haven't you got sparkling and she was like i'm just sorry like this is all we've got and i'm thinking mate just take the still water at least you've got water you obviously haven't got an allergy to still water you know just them people that just make situations it's difficult and I'm thinking there's so many people going through things in the world like the fact you haven't got sparkling water like just take the water what turns you on oh turns us on in in a weird way it's up to you I was gonna say coffee which that's gonna be the headline Jill gets turned on by coffees um I'm trying to think of things that make us happy we just went on a big family holiday to ibiza and there was 15 of us and my mom was there my sister's new baby like it was just such a great week away with the family being on family being away with family turns you on it's good that's a bit weird family and coffee they'll be like this is weird what do you like most about yourself oh i don't really sit there and say oh i like this about myself but um i love having conversations with people i really do i find like when i'm in london though because i'll be sitting and i'll just go to somebody if i'm by myself i'll go oh like get eye contact and i'll be going are you having a nice day or whatever and i think people think i'm so strange whereas if i'm up north especially in sunderland i'm like having a good day they're like why I yeah like what have you been up to and I have conversation but I think sometimes in London everybody's just so busy so I think probably the ability I'd like to think everyone's so busy they're just rude I was trying to be nice I know to talk the ability to talk to people and have conversations I would I would say okay bonus snog we're not doing this bonus favorite goal you ever scored?

1:03:48I think the goal that meant a lot at the time was the semi-final of the Uo's 2009 I come on an extra time and I scored the winner to get us to the final so I always say I try and paint it like it was this really good header but the ball literally smacked us on the nose and went bottom corner so it wasn't the best goal in terms of technique but in terms of what it meant Joe you're the best thank you so much oh thank you Thank you. You're amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Jill, that was amazing. Thank you. Wow, what an amazing episode. Jill, if you're listening, thank you so much for coming on the show.

1:04:26So many things I learned from that. So many things about sport and resilience and graft and teamwork. I didn't realize how much sport can play an impact into your life. When Jill came into the studio, She walked around and shaked every single person's hand and looked them in the eye And said to them by name, hey, how are you doing? She learned that from playing sport and going to different teams and meeting different people That goes a long way in any situation If you can go up to every single person, say hello, look at them in the eye and say, hey, how are you doing? What's your name? My whole team loved it The fact that she spoke about failure so openly You know, she would lose matches She wasn't the best player on the pitch, but she got up every single day and went back She kept going back.

1:05:09That mentality of never giving up is really important that we should really have in life because things always do get tough. We are going to fail. We are going to get knocked down. But the fact that we keep getting up and keep going, that's what's really important. How teamwork is really important. I think in life, sometimes we don't like to collaborate. We don't like people copying us. We want to kind of keep ourselves to ourselves. But actually, life is about collaborating. It is about teamwork. And with a team, you can achieve so much more. And it made me realize that you don't have to be the most important cog in the machine, but being a cog in a machine that is doing amazing things, that is what you want to be a part of.

1:05:46You don't always have to be the best, but as long as you're doing what you think is your best ability, then no one can ever doubt you. Jill, you're an amazing person and thank you so much for coming on. This episode of Jill also reminded me of a great episode I did with Ashley Roberts. Ashley Roberts was part of the Pussycat Dolls. She was a band member. And again, Ashley spoke about resilience and hard work and never giving up and graft and being part of a team and maybe not being the best singer or the best performer, the best entertainer, but being part of a machine that did so many amazing things.

1:06:17So if you liked this episode of Great Company with Jill Scott, you'll love this episode with Ashley Roberts. We're going to leave the link in the show's description so you can go and click on it. And here's a little clip from the episode to whet your appetite and see if you like it. You did a European tour and you did something like 200 dates or something crazy like that or something wild. Yeah, we were in like three different countries in one day at one point. It was nuts. And again, nobody spoke about their mental health or how they were feeling. No one said anything? No one said anything, no.

1:06:48I mean, yeah, it wasn't until I was in the hospital that they were like, you probably should take a little moment and just stop for a little second. We will see you next week for another episode on Wednesday of Great Company. Do-la-da-do-la-da