JON SOPEL: WHAT IT’S LIKE TO FLY WITH A PRESIDENT

0:00Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a free$250 credit for the next one. Get started at linkedin.com slash campaign. Terms and conditions apply. Hello, everyone. We're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from Nearlyweds and then Newlyweds.

0:35But now, guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newlyweds is now Nearly Parents, and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood, I guess. Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying not to kill each other. Get ready for Nearly Parents, your favourite new podcast.

1:05Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Lang, and this is Great Company.

1:14Well, hello. Hello. How are you? I'm well. Who are you? My name is Jamie Lang. I'm the host of Great Company, and you are? Jemima, the producer. So what are you feeling about today's episode? I'm very excited. How are you feeling about today's episode? I'm really excited because I'm a little bit nervous. There we go. There it is. I knew that was a nerf. Why? I'm nervous because John Sopel, who is coming on today, is a seasoned broadcaster. He is a credible broadcaster on politics. He's a seasoned pro in podcasting now because he hosts the News Agents podcast. And sometimes you feel a little sense of imposter syndrome when you're discussing things with someone who's clearly more experienced and knowledgeable in the area yes however i would counter that by saying we have had a lot of experts who are more knowledgeable than us in the area that we're going so that's a fine and that's what that's what's so lovely about this is it is great company and you're so good at just asking questions that maybe some people a bit like oh it's a bit silly to ask because we're all thinking it like what is the house of representatives for instance yeah i mean probably won't ask that no we could ask that but i don't know what that is but i'm with you and i think i think something with politics especially is we're quite british about it we don't really talk about who we support or or who we're voting for and also maybe uh we're sort of meant to know a lot more about politics and perhaps we do so we don't want to sound stupid yeah it is different from an expert on say a few weeks ago when we had Dr.

2:51Sarah Berry like not knowing loads about menopause you know actually came we realized that there's not much research on it so it's kind of okay for us to be a bit unknowledgeable whereas politics you know it's a bit like why haven't you been reading the newspaper why haven't you but podcasts are a great great way a great way a great way um for people to to oh my word um to consume that kind of content it so is I look I'm really excited so John is coming on he bringing out a new book which is called strange land um it's all about britain and everything surrounding the sort of politics and the sort of culture within the uk which is really interesting he's the host of the newsagent podcast one of the biggest podcasts in the uk yeah um he was a bbc broadcaster for nearly 40 years many many years many years he was the bbc correspondent in america um so he has done a lot of incredible interesting amazing things and he's coming on to have a chat and I cannot wait.

3:50I know. It's going to be fantastic. Also, if you're listening to this and you haven't subscribed to our show, please do. And also you can send us an email. It is greatcompany at jamppopproductions.co.uk or you can slide into our DMs, Great Company Podcast on Instagram. Let us know any notes, any questions, anything at all. Okay, Jemima, are you ready for this? I am ready to rock and roll! Please. Please welcome to great company, John Sopel. Hello, I'm John Sopel, really average company on great company.

4:28We're seeing this during the podcast right now and you have one ear on, one ear off on our headphones. I have mine fully on because I'm fully, I'm in it. You like to take one off because you like to understand potential risk, right? So explain that. I just suppose that there have been times when you've been in places where if you had your headphones fully on, there could be extraneous sound happening a little way away that you wouldn't be aware of. You know, it's like when I first kind of covered the troubles in Northern Ireland, you always learned to, when you were parking the car, to park, you know, reverse in so you can go straight out if you need to get away quickly.

5:05And there were certain risk things. I don't know. I've just always stayed with me. I prefer, I think I'm sounding like a complete weirdo now. You're sounding completely right. Have you been in a situation or been in situations when it's been pretty scary? Yes, yeah. And you've got to have your wits about you. You've got to be aware of everything taking place around 360 degrees. Also, if you're filming, you've got to be aware of your, you know, your cameraman has got his eye in the camera lens or her eye in the camera lens, and they're focusing on that. They're not aware of what's going on around them because they're just focusing on have they got the shot?

5:41Is it in focus? and so to have your wits about you in those sort of situations um well i you know i mean i suppose you know kind of being on a front line moving with a front line in uh you know in northern afghanistan which i was um and you know suddenly if you would so for example i was a there was a situation where we were at this there was a siege taking place of this town and the northern alliance and the Americans and the Brits were trying to dislodge the Taliban. And there hadn't been any firing. The only firing had been from the US and from the Northern Alliance. There was very low cloud cover one day.

6:20And suddenly, Taliban stand up and start firing. And you're suddenly aware of bits of sand spitting up beside you. You think, oh my God, that's gunfire. Right, let's get them out of here as fast as we can. And it's just having your wits about you. Right, come on, let's go. We're going. Because you haven't got time to kind of, you know, you've just got to be pretty, you know, if hot metal is flying in your direction, you really do want to get the hell out of the way. What happens in those situations? Because if you see the sand spitting up, you do, right? That is, because, but it's a strange situation, something like that, I imagine.

6:56For someone who isn't typically trained in combat, which I'm assuming you're probably not. No. So you're a civilian, you're standing there, you're reporting, you're on the front line, and then you see you're being fired at and suddenly you're realising, hang on a second, these are bullets flying over our heads. That is a pretty scary, it must be surreal. I mean, in fairness, we do training. I mean, before you go to somewhere like that, you do what's now in the industry known as a HEFAT course, which is, if I could remember what it stood for, I mean, it's kind of, you know, it's a safety first aid course.

7:28It's what you do, you know, if there's incoming fire, what does that sound like? If it's outgoing fire, what does that sound like? where is a safe place to take cover. You watch a cop program, okay? And you see them opening the door and hiding behind a car door and then firing from behind the car door. We were never going to talk about any of this. I don't know how we've got here, but this is... Do you know why it's because I'm a great interviewer? This is what conversation is. This is why it is. This is why when people say to me, you know, oh, can I have a list of the questions? You say, no, because no conversation has ever worked on the basis of a list of questions.

8:03Thank you. Exactly. It's potty. Anyone who says anything like that is a lunatic. By the way, H-E-F-A-T. Hostile Environment and Emergency First Aid Training. There we are. Brilliant. You knew that. That was just at the top of my head. You're just so clever. And so we went to this shooting range. And someone just gets out. Where are you at this point? This is in the UK. So we got trained in the UK. I've also been trained in the States when I lived there. And someone gets out a low caliber revolver and just fires it into a car door. The bullet goes whistling straight through it. Don't ever hide behind a car door if you think the only part of a car that would be safe to hide behind is the engine block.

8:48Because that is solid metal. Wow. You find low ground, you hide behind a tree. You know, brick wall, forget it. A bullet goes straight through and a high velocity round will go. So you learn all this stuff. Wow. Before you go out there. I mean, it's always kind of one of the things that struck me as one of the madnesses about when I was in America of saying what you need to do is you need, you know, there are so many bad people with guns. What you need is more good people with guns. And why don't we have more guns in schools? You arm the teachers so that you push them. You cannot believe what a bullet sounds like being fired, working out where it is coming from.

9:23And the idea that you're going to be able to keep this under control if you have teachers with guns where you're not even sure. it seems to be a recipe for even more mayhem to have something like that. What is your, I mean, if we could start here as well, because this is super interesting, right? I think just gun crime in America. From someone living over here who, and I imagine lots of the audience has sort of limited knowledge and just sees things in the news and understands and reads stories, it's sort of catastrophic. The sort of things that are happening over there are crazy. And from a naive position, you say, well, why don't you just put a ban on these guns and stop them happening and stop all these things happening in America?

10:00so that's a huge question it's a huge question i know that's why we have you here so well essentially you you go to the the framing of the u.s constitution and the founding fathers coming together they've kicked the british out george iii is history and they're trying to write a constitution at the turn of the sort of 18th century um about what america will be and one of the great suspicions was that you you know america is this vast geographical landmass. You can't have too much power at the center. You can't have too much power in Washington, DC. You need to make sure that states have rights.

10:38And so the great fear for the framers of the constitution was that Washington would get an army and then it would rule the whole of America and no one would have any rights. And so the second amendment, which is the right to bear arms, came about that everyone should have a small, well-trained militia to fight off an overmighty Washington. So guns became part of life in America in a way that they never have been. So they basically, everyone had militia, so they would stop a sort of civil war from happening. They would stop an overmighty state trampling over the rights of Alabama or Mississippi or Louisiana or wherever it happens to be, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, you name it.

11:15Um, that was the idea. Spin forward kind of until the 1980s, 1990s, and it gets, the law gets changed so that everyone has the right to bear arms. It changes from a, instead of it being a small, well-regulated militia, I think was what the original amendment said. It, it was that anyone could have the right to bear arms. I remember going to cover one of the, uh, crimes, one of the mass shootings that had taken place um in orlando at the pulse nightclub and this the guy who carried out the killing had um been he'd grown up nearby and i went to the town nearby and we did the classic tv vox pop and you know i said are you a gun owner yeah i'm a gun owner how many guns have you got to which he replied no one asks how many pairs of shoes my wife has got and you think hang on just take let's let's just pick apart the logic of that why do you know okay you wear different shoes because sometimes you want to wear smart and sometimes you want to be casual and sometimes you want to go somewhere very formal sometimes it's very informal i understand why people have different pairs of shoes why do you need so many ways to kill somebody but then you go back to that argument which you said which i understand is where everyone, you need to stop this idea of Washington to be able to take over the country or whatever it is.

12:37But then when it becomes such a problem and such an issue where people, parents are scared of sending their kids to schools because they're worried there's going to be a shooting and still nothing is done about it. I tell you the thing that, I mean, look, there are so many things that brought it home to me, but I was brief, I spent four years as the BBC's Paris correspondent, made great friends there with this American family. And their son has just had kids of his own. The little tiny tot is going now to kindergarten. And they got a note from the school, from the kindergarten, saying, we want to take a sample of your son's DNA, aged 18 months, two years, just in case there's a mass shooting and we need to identify bodies.

13:24You cannot quite believe that that is... just consider that that's what you have to do, that you have to have drills now in schools, you know, in case of a shooter, in case of active shooter. They regularly practice barricading themselves in a classroom as if that is normal. As if it was a fire drill we used to do at school. Exactly. It is normalising the most abnormal. And I find that terrifying. And, you know, the number of gun deaths in the UK each year is probably between 25 and 50. A few will be murders, a few will be a shotgun. 25 and 50 ,000? No, 25 to 50. 25 to 50? Yeah. And in the US, it'll be at least 35 ,000.

14:10So, okay, we're five times smaller. So on that statistic, it ought to be 125 deaths in America, if they were the same as us. It is in the tens of thousands. The lowest it's been when I was there was about 35 ,000. So it is an insanity. It is a complete insanity. And they think that the only way... I mean, what is it about the logic that they don't get? They keep saying that the only way to stop a bad person with a gun is to have a good person with a gun. Well, okay, fine. But then why has it not worked? Everyone has got guns in America. I mean, you know, they are widespread. And we've just heard that Kamala Harris has said that she's a gun owner.

14:55And Tim Wohl's, her running mate, he's a gun owner. You know, so everyone has got guns in America. But the fact of the matter is that it would take a constitutional amendment to take away people's guns. It is never going to happen. And there would be a civil war before it did happen. I genuinely believe that the one thing that would result in civil war in America is if the state tried to take away people's guns. But try and break that down for me. Because what? Then people believe that they don't have their freedom and they don't have the ability to defend themselves? Yes. The size of America is vast.

15:30You could live in some rural homestead that is 50 miles from the nearest town. and you feel to protect my family i do need to have a gun i can't rely on the metropolitan police or hampshire police or whatever it happens to be turning up to protect me i mean you know the best job in the world being the bbc's north america editor the worst bit of that job all the endless towns i went to where 40 people had died 50 people had died las vegas there was the country music festival you know all of these different places that i've been to that was horrendous which i associate with mass shootings which i associate with the ready availability of high power high velocity rifles as as much ammunition as you can pack away and you just think this is just it's a disease you speak about america being this sort of strange bizarre place but then you have your new book, which is Strangeland, which is all about how you feel that UK has become slightly bizarre in its own way.

16:40Yeah. I came back from America in 2022. Having been away for how long? Nearly eight years. Living in DC. Living in DC. And you come back and, you know, the first time I'd voted, kind of in the deep, distant mists of time in 1979. And for the next three decades, three decades, there were three prime ministers. There was Margaret Thatcher, there was John Major, and there was Tony Blair. Three prime ministers, 28 years. And I come back in 2022, and we have three prime ministers in one year. And you think, what the hell is happening to this country? And Boris Johnson is, you know, brought down by a whole series of lies that, you know, about the unlawful proroguing of parliament, lying to the Queen, and then lying to about why certain ministers had happened, and the impossibility of Brexit.

17:29And then you get the madness of Liz Truss, and you think, geez, what the hell has happened to, you know, everyone looks to Britain to be this kind of bastion of stability and it suddenly felt very unstable. And instead of lots of irony and humour, everyone felt really angry and people are going to the, you know, on social media, it's hyper-aggressive. Unless you think exactly like I do, then you are to be condemned. And I kind of found there was this intolerance on the left and I found there was this intolerance on the right. And I thought, oh my God, I don't recognize any of this. And so in some ways you could say the counter argument is, oh my God, look at the boring general election we've just had in the UK where, you know, Rishi Sunak goes down in flames, Keir Starmer wins huge, and there's a peaceful transfer of power.

18:20What's the fuss about? And then you look and say, well, hang on, we've now got, you know, a hard right anti-immigrant grouping in the House of Commons, which we've never had before in the shape of reform. Arguably, we've got a hard left grouping around Jeremy Corbyn and some of the people that are attracted there. You've got people who are kind of quick to the barricades on some of these social issues and intolerance of other people's views. And I sort of do worry that there's a danger that we become as polarized as America. And I just don't think that's a great thing because I think that American democracy, I mean, we'll see what happens over the next few weeks.

19:00The one thing I do not predict will happen is that if Kamala Harris wins, Donald Trump will pick up the phone and say, Kamala, congratulations, good luck for the next four years. Just don't see that happening. In a way that Rishi Sunak did for Keir Starmer in July. Wait, just jumping to that, what do you think will happen then if Trump loses? I mean, honestly. Come on, no ways. It can't be that. You think it's going to be that dramatic? well it did anyone think it would be that dramatic last time around this i mean what happened four years ago was not that the u.s constitution showed how durable it was i think it showed how brittle it was um but for the actions of a few people who were really brave and said no no no, I'm sorry.

19:51Mr. Trump, my loyalty is to the constitution, not to you, the president. Donald Trump is going to be better organized this time round. There are all sorts of possibilities. I'm not predicting anything, but I just think that the chances of there being a smooth, easy, trouble-free transition of power, like we had in Britain in July, I think are negligible. I think that if Donald Trump wins, he wins. And if he loses, he'll say the election was stolen from me with the consequences that could flow from that. There's one huge difference. I don't want to be boring and start talking about American constitutional politics.

20:30But when Trump lost in November 2020, the House of Representatives, which certifies the election, was controlled by the Democrats and Nancy Pelosi was the speaker. this time round and nearly all the republicans voted not to certify joe biden's victory for no other reason than they were terrified of donald trump this time round the house is run by the republicans a republican speaker mike johnson who was there who didn't vote to certify joe biden's victory four years ago who might be in a position where he says okay well i know that according to the Electoral College Kamala Harris won, but we're not going to certify it.

21:14And then you're into a full-scale constitutional crisis about what happens next in America. I'm not saying that will happen, but, you know, anyone who thinks there are no dangers and there are no pressure points is being willfully blind. It's quite a scary world we live in at the moment. It's sort of terrifying. And going back to your book, but why did you decide to write the book? I suppose my purpose for writing the book was saying, you know what, I kind of like where we are and i think britain's a great country i you know and there were bits of 2022 i thought the death of the queen was a real kind of that was a light bulb moment for me where you thought my god you know though many people may have doubts about the monarchy and and you know on an intellectual level it's hard to rationalize why you have one family which becomes where the son becomes the king you know it doesn't make a whole lot of logical sense but it was a glue it was a glue that bound us as a nation and i think you know you see the people from all walks of life i remember going to football on the day of the king's coronation and i watched the coronation in the morning on the telly and then i go to tottenham in the afternoon and what a day what a day and everyone and everyone's singing god save the king and it was kind of like oh my god the hairs in the back of your neck are standing up at this and so there are things so i just want us to remember what the all the good stuff that we've got in this society which are considerable but you know there are bad actors out there who would seek to undermine it and if you're Vladimir Putin and you've you know he interferes in elections because he wants to sow discontent he wants he doesn't want to see a strong Europe or a strong America or a strong NATO who genuinely scares you in the world people who have no tolerance of other people's views people who just think that they have got absolute moral certainty those people frighten me and I think there is that sort of danger at the moment that, you know, on certain issues, you get people, it's all the fault of illegal immigration, or it's all the fault of the fossil fuel companies, or it's all the fault of, you know, whatever it happens to be.

23:16And I just think that it's on both edges of politics. And then you, those people unwittingly become the useful idiots for people who've got much more of a plan, like, you know, in Russia, where Putin is clear that he wants to rebuild the sort of Russian empire as was. Anyone who just assumes that what we've got, because we've grown up with it, is permanent, I think is kidding themselves. I think there are dangers out there and there are threats to democracy. Those sort of need to be taken a bit seriously. The hard thing, I think, is we have a lot of young listeners, right, who are probably listening to this and you know losing hope because um you know social media creates a sort of echo chamber of distress and yeah and and lies and everyone's an expert on everything it feels like what would you say to the younger generation well i wouldn't dream to speak to the younger generation in a sort of patronizing well i let me tell you young man young woman you know i i just Because that's pompous and it's just stupid.

24:24I think that, you know, one, I would say, is social media the real world? It is a world, but is it the real world? So don't start thinking that just because someone has got a lot of likes for something on Insta or TikTok or whatever it happens to be, that that is the real world. I think that society as a whole is more diffuse. I would also say my experience in life has been that things invariably happen because someone has fucked up and has cocked up and it's just made a complete bloody mess of things rather than some dark evil conspiracy. And you I mean, you look at what happened when, you know, Kate, as in Kate and Will, the Princess of Wales, gets sick with cancer.

25:13you know we went mad we went mad with the conspiracy theories of that it was the marriage that was over she was dead she was dead she's not alive the palace is not admitting it you know a million different things were going on about why we hadn't been told what we'd been told and you just think oh it's a much sadder story than that she just wanted to tell the kids that conspiracy theory is it really plausible or is it probably more complex more layered more gray and murky and muddy than all of that and i think that the more you get to know about things the more you think there isn't a simple unifying explanation of these dark forces that are at work i just don't buy it you know one of the things that sort of slightly frightens me now about the environment out there is that you know people catastrophize things and build conspiracy theories and actually i think life's all right you know i think life's okay i think there are challenges sure there are challenges sure life's complicated and it's messy but i don't think the great conspiracy theories and you know and what what really pisses me off is when i see sorry my language has suddenly deteriorated because you're in my company that's what happens all the time i don't know what the hell's happened anyway i'd like to apologize um happens all the time yeah you know that there are not they when when i see someone like liz truss trying to explain the fact that she was brought down as prime minister because of these dark forces of the bank of england these dark forces in the treasury who plotted against her the british establishment wanted to see her fail no you just screwed up love you know you know just made a complete utter horlicks of it and you failed you came up with an unfunded budget that sent the markets It's berserk.

27:04And hey, presto, people said, you've got to change course. And she didn't want to. And the markets forced her to. The free markets that she reveres. And you just think, what has happened to people being able to take responsibility for their own behavior?

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28:08As a mutual insurance company, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amika, empathy is our best policy. Call 877-41-AMIKA for a free coverage review. Hello everyone, we're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from Nearlyweds and then Newlyweds. But now, guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newlyweds is now Nearly Parents, and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood, I guess. Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying not to kill each other.

28:48Get ready for Nearly Parents, your favourite new podcast.

28:58You mentioned that you say that being the US correspondent is the best job in the world. Why is it the best job in the world? Oh, because it's so fabulous. Look, America is an amazing country. Everything is big. Everything is big, whether it's Yosemite National Park is big. It just doesn't feel like the Lake District National Park. Everything is oversized. The sandwiches are too big. The food is too much. The sweet food is too sweet. The salty food is too salty. everything is over the top in america right and so but it relates to the politics as well so even the politics is big in america and you know i was kind of privileged to be part of the you know the white house press corps you would travel with the president i've traveled with the prime minister in a motorcade it's cool traveling with the president on air force one and being part of his motorcade is cooler.

29:50It's just ridiculous. I mean, the size and the scale of it and the self-importance and the kind of, you know, landing at Stansted Airport on Air Force One, getting into these Osprey helicopters that take you from by the foot of the aircraft to the back garden of the US Ambassador and Regents Park in about 15 minutes. I mean, hey, it's testosterone. It's kind of cool. It's all happening there. And you're just thinking, well, this is a laugh. What is Air Force One like? It's a really shitty old plane. Get out of here. It can't be. It can't be. It is. I've seen the movie with Harrison Ford. Yeah, I know.

30:31It's not. So the law of Air Force One, right, is you can only walk backwards. You can't move forwards. So no, no, no. So if you're at the back of the plane, which is where the journalists are, there are yeah and there's i try to imagine this the bulkhead at the back of the plane goes down the middle of the plane so you've only got you can only you can't see what's at the far side of the aisle got it okay yeah so we're on one side and there are about 13 seats uh for the journalists that's all under wrangler you get on air force so you you you go to andrews air force base right in maryland and you film uh the president going up the steps and then secret service take right on the plane and you go up through the belly there's a little short staircase that goes up through the belly of the plane you're not going into the cabin you're going into the hold and then you're going above that and there's all sorts of weird shit in the hold of stuff that you know boats and whatever else you know crazy stuff are you serious yeah and then you go up to the back of the plane which is where you sit and you have not put your cameras down and your microphones down and the plane is moving it's like being in an uber for a start once the president is on board the plane is moving there is no waiting there is no air traffic control clearance you are in the air while you are still putting away your stuff forget seatbelts and all that kind of crap you don't worry with any of that um but it's a really old rust bucket of a plane at the very front of the plane you've got the president's quarters and his bedroom.

32:05And then on the top deck... Did you see that? No, because of course that's out of bounds. As I say, you can only move backwards. And if you're at the back of the plane, all you can go to is the galley and the toilet. In front of us on the plane are the Secret Service and the Secret Service carry their weapons all the time the plane is in flight. So realistically, if you want to make a move to the front of the plane, you've got to get past about a dozen secret service agents who are all armed i'm going to suggest that's not going to turn out well for you on the plane if you try to do that there is an operating theater on the plane there is there are doctors on the plane there is it's you know and then there are staff quarters and there are the meeting rooms and on the top deck of the jumbo so at the front is where no one goes and that's where all the comms team are who are you know patching you to world leaders or whatever.

32:55And that is, you know, strictly, strictly out of bounds. I think for even for all the White House staff, only the president and those that, you know, have got the highest clearance can go up top. When you amplify things purposely, you know, whether it's in supermarkets, food is big, or you go on Air Force One, it's big. If you make, if you sort of create theatre around things big and strong, then you yourself feel important and big and strong. And And there's that kind of, with American politics, it feels it's a little bit like that. It feels like it's a very big theatre show. Here we go. It's absolutely like that.

33:31It's also the projection of power. That, you know, in Britain, we do understated. Always. Which is what I love about this country. I remember once being on the M4 and going up behind a Range Rover and kind of, it was in the fast lane. It was doing 70 and I wanted to go faster. You know, I was rushing to go somewhere. I can't even remember where. and i so i flash the the range rover and just this little thing on the back comes up and says police keep your distance and they were had i don't know whether the royalty or the prime minister in front but it was like three cars that was it we do discreet understated america does big projections of power and it is theater and it is show and you know look america is you know still the most powerful country probably in the world.

34:20It's got the biggest army in the world. It's got the most heavily armed armed forces in the world. But then there could be an assassination attempt on Trump. Yeah, there has been. Is there a real threat that people are so radical now that they will climb on roofs with guns and try and assassinate presidents or, you know, anyone? Yeah, Jamie, I want to just pick that apart slightly. Please do. I think that there is undoubtedly polarization in America. And it is my belief that had the assassination attempt succeeded on Donald Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania, you know, back in July, it would have resulted in civil war.

35:01I think the consequences would have been horrific because a lot of the Trump supporters are heavily armed. and they are, you know, January the 6th, we saw that they were prepared to take the law into their own hands. I think that any Democrat politician or media person who'd ever been critical of Donald Trump would find himself in the crosshairs of people saying, we want revenge. I think it would have been a really scary moment for America. You know, thank God he missed on every level because one, we should resolve our political differences through argument and debate and listening to each other's viewpoints and letting people vote and decide.

35:40That's how you do it in a democracy. But thank God he missed as well, because the consequences would have been so far reaching and so destabilizing for America, which has already had the shock of January the 6th, you know, 2021. But the other thing about it is, you know, do I think that the two attempted assassination attempts were from people who were deeply politically motivated who had you know it wasn't a communist plot it wasn't a kind of like the jfk assassination it was a random uh guy who kind of had disaffected individual there are a lot of i mean you know there are a lot of nutters out there to use the politically incorrect phrasing uh for it there are a lot of people who are fruitcakes who've but who've got guns we got fruitcakes in britain as well, they don't have guns and they're not in a position to do quite as much damage for the most part.

36:34So I think there is a difference between political extremism and polarisation, which I think is there. I think it's real. The fact of the matter is that you get a lot of people who have got guns, who shouldn't have, who get it into their head that they've got messages that someone is telling them they've got to shoot. They're hearing voices, I've got to kill Donald Trump, or I've got to kill Kamala Harris, or whatever it happens to be. And so, you know, but that I don't think is necessarily a function of the extremism. I went to Miami in January. And it was and I hadn't been to America in a while.

37:07And I arrived there and I went through security. And I felt this is just a personal opinion. Compared to London, where I live all the time, there feels this sense, it feels aggressive. When walking through security, you feel like you're being watched. You feel like if you put a foot wrong, something's going to happen. Did you when you were in america did you feel that there is a sense of unrest uh well obviously on january the 6th there was unrest um were you there at the time yeah i was in i was in the capital i wasn't at the hill i wasn't on the hill when the riots happened i'd been at the i'd been at the ellipse when donald trump made the speech we've got to fight we've got to fight like hell to save our country for anyone who doesn't know can you explain what happened then so yeah so let's go back to January the 6th, I'd been to so many Trump rallies and there was always a slight carnival atmosphere.

37:58I mean, you know, yeah, we were called fake news. Yeah. We were called, you know, enemies of the people, all that sort of stuff, but people dressed up. It was like, you're going to a fiesta and they were wearing Trump costumes and Trump hats and Trump t-shirts and Trump socks. And, you know, they adored Donald Trump. And it was a kind of, it was a kind of fun that people went for entertainment. You know, don't believe that all these people that go to Trump rallies are deeply political. Trump is funny. He's a very entertaining speaker. You know, if you wrote it all down, transcribe what he said, you would think he was a nutcase.

38:29He's serious. Yeah, no, no, but he's entertaining. He comes on to, you know... Explain what he's like saying... Well, because he comes on to YMCA, you know, a macho man, okay? And he's kind of, he's dancing and he's hamming it up and he's, you know, and it like, he was in Michigan, I think, at the weekend and he was telling, you know, get your fat husband off the couch and get him to vote. You know, in normal political terms, you would not campaign like that. So Trump does this because he wants to make people laugh and he wants to be an entertainer. January the 6th, the mood was sulfurous. It was sour.

39:04It was aggressive. People had come clearly spoiling for a fight. And, you know, I mean, Trump would deny this, but he absolutely encouraged it. He said, you know, come to Washington on January the 6th. it's going to be wild. He did nothing to deter the rioters when the riots were first taking place. And he knew, was aware that there were gallows being built to hang Mike Pence, his vice president. And there was an attempted insurrection. There was an attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power from Donald Trump to Joe Biden. I was doing the 10 o 'clock news that night. I went on air and Joe Biden's election victory should have been certified by Congress by then.

39:47And it hadn't been because the mob was in control of the House of Representatives and the mob was in control of the Senate. And it was an attempt to overthrow democracy. I mean, it's hard to describe it as anything else. That was January the 6th. So there was a real danger of violence. I just want to go back to your question about you arriving at Miami airport and feeling this sense of aggression. what you get in america is pasag there's a lot of passive aggression no sir you can't do that don't ever try and do a joke with a security official in america never ever ever try humor never try irony or sarcasm just leave those behind in britain not going to work in america with the security forces that are there they are not going to laugh they're not going to smile and before you know it you'll hear the snap of latex gloves and could you bend over uh mr lang please uh there is a certain we are going to conduct a full bodily examination i really don't it's and that i think marks it out and that takes some getting used to where you kind of i suspect you and me are used to kind of joshing our way through things and you know kind of you you try and have a laugh with someone you try and you deploy a bit of charm whatever it happens to be because you think you'll get more that way.

41:09And that's the sort of my life. I've kind of, you know, once I'd written on a school report, Jonathan must learn that in life, charm is not enough. Because that's all I was good at, really. It's exactly the same as me. It's all I was good at. My report said getting across at Jamie is like drowning puppies. Exactly. So you and me are the same there. So I've always tried to deploy humour. American security, no, forget it. It's not going to work. They just do a very serious matter of fact, yes, sir. But, you know, there's this sort of, there's this kind of strange politeness, whether it's yes, sir, no, ma 'am, you know, walk this way.

41:46It's sort of polite, but don't ever think you can cross the line of engaging in banter. You know, when you're getting your passport stamped and you've queued for bloody hours, you know, just suck it up. John, why did you become a journalist? Oh, God knows. I couldn't get any other job. because you're clearly so passionate just from this brief sort of moment that we've spent together you're clearly passionate about it you're clearly passionate for the truth which I think is what we're really lacking at the moment is people don't want to particularly find out the truth they want to find out what fits their narrative and I think you don't mind what narrative it really fits as long as it's the truth and has that always been with you ever since you were young?

42:36Were you truthful when you were younger? Caring about the truth and being truthful, I would say are two slightly different things. No, I do care passionately about it. I do care. Why? Because I think that there's a real danger. So, you know, if my book is a kind of, living in a democracy is a bloody great thing and we should preserve it, then I think that if you are going to have people being fed utter falsehood and nonsense on social media and, you know, AI generated pictures and whatever else it happens to be, which we have seen now in successive elections. And some of it is put out by people who just want to make a bit of money on the side and create clickbait.

43:22Other of it is being created by states who want to undermine our institutions and undermine our democracy. I think there is a real premium on having facts out there. And people just can't have their own facts. There are certain stubborn things that are facts. I have got a cup of coffee in my hand. That is a fact. Is it? Yes. And it's a very nice cup of coffee and I want to thank your producer for getting it. I think that those things are facts and I think that we should be able to stick to those. So why I became a journalist was that I was curious. I didn't have any high... when i went into journalism which was 40 years ago god help me i didn't have these high-minded ideals about upholding democracy i just thought of course quite interesting to be able to poke a microphone under somebody's nose and say what the hell's going on you know it satisfied the nosey in me i think also i like telling story you know are you a storyteller yeah and i think that there is an element of that in journalism and the the correspondence that you kind of want to watch and read other people who weave a beautiful story and say look this is complicated but we're going to cross this busy motorway i'm going to hold your hand and we're going to get to the other side and we'll get there safely but just hold on because i'm going to tell you something that you know and we've got to go through this busy lines of traffic but we're going to get there and it's worth listening to so i kind of quite enjoyed all of that about storytelling today as i sit here now with you in 2024, I am a bit fearful about the amount of fake information out there.

44:53So I don't care, Jamie, whether you go to a polling station and you vote Tory or Labour or Reform or Corbyn or pro-Europe or anti-Europe or Democrat or Republican. All I care about is that you've had good information on which to base your judgment so that when you pick up that little stubby black pencil in the voting booth, you've got kind of reasonable facts on which to base it. And I worry that exactly as you say, that people listen to news and there are, you know, there's a whole variety of ways that people are getting news, that people are listening to news not to be informed, but to be affirmed, but to hear their own views echoing back to them that, oh yeah, this is what I think, yeah, absolutely.

45:40Yeah, you're right. And never listening to anyone who says anything contradictory. And I just think that, you know, that sort of level of intolerance about hearing another viewpoint is really bloody dangerous. It completely is. And I love that sort of idea of just understanding when you are going to vote to have a little bit of knowledge about what you're doing and understanding things. When it comes to voting, why are we so as Brits so private and so scared about saying who we're voting for? Where in America, if you're a Trump fund, you're screaming about it. But in the UK, we don't. We hide it.

46:11We're embarrassed. We're shy. We're reserved. Why is that? You know, one of the things I, when I was sort of thinking about writing this book, I read an essay that Orwell had written in 1941 during the Blitz. The bombs are falling on London. He's sitting at, you know, a Remington typewriter, clack, clack, clack, clack, clack, you know, all the rest of it. And he describes the British personality so accurately that I think it's sort of relevant today and he says we are basically private individuals we're not showy demonstrative people we're not people who beat our chests that our army do not go in for goose step marches and stuff like that we're not this sort of outwardly projecting showy you know we like the privacy we like you know we we kind of like our own front yard i mean i remember going to the netherlands and seeing no one had net curtains in their houses and thinking that's not british we we want to we want to lock ourselves away totally and i think there is a degree of privacy that we have and i kind of like that and i think that people who invade your privacy is is one of those things that you excuse me don't stand so close to me please please can you keep your distance like when you're when you're on the tube or you're a cocktail party and you meet an italian and the italian is wanting to be nose to nose with you and the brit is backing off another four feet because we don't want that invasion of our personal space and it's like a dance goes on around the room as the Italian is trying to get closer to you and the British is trying to get further away.

47:36And I think that there is an element of that in who we are. I quite like that. I think that's respectful. I think, you know, respect people's space. But that's sort of counterintuitive to what you do as a job because... Yeah, I know. As you described it, I would have put a microphone on someone's nose. Yeah, but I try and do it in a sort of, you know, nice way that, you know, people want to open up to you. Because I think people do like telling their stories. how do you open someone up in terms of in conversation so if you are trying to you're trying to deliver a message but you're also trying to get something out of someone what is a tactic that you would say to someone in conversation in order to get the answer out of someone um i think it depends on the person i think you've got to you know you there is no generalized rule of social conduct that some people are shy and it takes a little bit of coaxing you've got to build confidence but you've got you've got to have people have got to have confidence that you are fundamentally a decent upright person i think if they're going to open up to you and you've got to be you know i'm interested in people and i think that people think that the great skill of broadcasting is do you have a great sonorous broadcasting voice the great skill of this and yeah I reckon You're about to say I have it thanks very much I am actually No, no, I am No, because I'm going to say what you've done I suspect that you know look, your producer sent me a rough plan of what the interview was going to be and we've gone way meandered all sorts of ways because that's where conversation takes you Totally and it's about you know if you imagine that there is this giant switch on top of your head and one switch it's got two positions one is transmit and one is listen too often people are on transmit and are not listening to other people and i think that the art of good interviewing and getting stuff out of people is to be able to listen to what they've had to say i couldn't agree with you more more people need to listen how many years do you spend at the bbc again oh i don't so i mean you know people do less for multiple murder Was it 84 years?

49:41Yeah, exactly. I did, oh God, 35 plus years. So 35 plus years, the BBC, which, you know, I do Radio 1. I understand how the BBC works. It's very controlled. You have to sort of be quite balanced in your view in lots of ways. And I mean, I don't need to, I'm telling you how to suck eggs here, but you understand. You then go to do a podcast, The News Agents, which is hugely popular. I was listening to it this morning. It's just, it's great. and if anyone who hasn't listened to it, please go and listen to it, which kind of are no rules. You can kind of do what you want. You're paid more money. What was it like going from the BBC to doing your own podcast?

50:21There's an easy glib answer, which is, you know, I kind of compared it to mass murder. And there was an element in which you're sitting in your prison cell and the water comes and you hear the lock turning and they open the door and they say, Mr. Sopel, you're free to go now. And you think, well, I don't want to go outside. I don't want to go out there. It's scary out there. I'm much more comfortable in here. And there was an element in which I was institutionalized at the BBC in the sense that, okay, I had never bought a mobile phone. I had never bought a laptop. I had never bought an iPad. If I had any problems, I used to ring IT support because that's what there was there at the BBC.

50:57The BBC would give me my phone. They would give me my laptop. They would give me my iPad. They would give me the microphone I needed to broadcast with. and so when you go outside and suddenly think oh my god i've been wearing this heavy wet woolen overcoat for quite some time now and i can just take it off and i can my shoulders can move freely i think that that's kind of there's an element of liberation and there are things that probably we've got wrong on the podcast you know no one's perfect but the ability to talk in a more free way more open way and you asked me about young people and i've got you know what's my advice i haven't got any advice but i think the reason we're attracted i don't know we're attracting young people because i think that we're having a conversation that is more inclusive that seems a bit more human goes back to when you were asking me about my passion for journalism it's still there it was the case when i left and i was doing the 10 o 'clock news or the today program that you were reaching an older demographic you were reaching people in their 60s.

51:59Well, that's crap. We need to reach all sorts of, we need to reach all demographics. News needs to get, you know, facts need to get to all people. Good reporting, interesting takes on what's happening in the world. I want it to reach the widest possible audience. And if we are getting young people listening disproportionately to us compared to what was the case at the BBC, happy days. What does it teach you about taking risks? Because I feel like you've sort of taken risks in your life? You've been to the front line, you leave the BBC, you start this podcast. That's a good question. I mean, we started off talking about me on a front line.

52:37I want to add for context, I bloody hated it. I was absolutely terrified. The moment we got out of Afghanistan, I thought, and likewise, when I've been in Iraq or other places in the Middle East. You still did it? Yeah, I still did it. I mean, I suppose part of me wanted to see how much of a coward i was or wasn't and whether i you know i could do this and it was a kind of like you know could i do this i but i didn't want to become a war correspondent at the end of it i every time i left somewhere like that i just thought thank god for that thank you know i wasn't hankering to go back to the next place where i'd be shot at you know i'd kind of quite like my family and i quite like to get home in one piece and so i i but i mean yeah i did yeah I took risks.

53:22And there are things I've done where I think, I look back and think, you are mad. Why on earth did you do what you did? You know, the drive to get on air, to hit the bulletin at the top of the hour, driving at ridiculous speeds, cutting corners in your life to get there, to do the story, to be on the story. That is a disease that's in me. I fully acknowledge and, you know, you can probably tell from the way I'm speaking about it that it's probably still there. that if if i got a note now saying that you know a big story of broken i would be there in a shot you drop everything pack a bag airport go you don't know where you know you're in flight you don't know where you're gonna when you land you don't know where you're gonna stay you don't speak the language you've got to make you don't know whether you're hoping that while you're flying that someone is taking charge of the logistics of kind of figuring this stuff out so that you can hit the ground running because that's what i've done for you know for years and years and years And that's, you know, that adrenaline is still there and it's still in me that if the story broke, I'd be gone.

54:26I would be on it. So, yeah, that's sort of part of it. And then there was a risk of doing, leaving the BBC. You know, I'd done a long time at the BBC. How much of a risk was it? I mean, I could have fallen flat enough. We could have fallen flat. We stay in our lane and you seem to not. And I just, I think it's so important to encourage, especially the younger generation to, I'm a big believer in taking risks. Totally. And I always look back at when I was 14 years old, I really fancied this girl and we're sitting on the rocks and I didn't kiss her. Now we're going. Now the podcast is getting interesting.

55:00And I remember I didn't kiss her. And then two years later, she had a boyfriend and I said, we got drunk and said, I was going to kiss you that time. She said, well, I didn't know I wanted to kiss you. And it never left my head. I realised that you've got to just, you've got to take risks, even if it makes you feel uncomfortable, even if it makes you feel nervous. And I think the younger generation need to, you know, in voting or in politics or have a view, take risks. I think it's really important. I also think that the other side of that is, I completely agree with you, is resilience. That sometimes you're going to take a risk and you're going to fail.

55:30And that's not the end of the world. It doesn't mean you forever got a black mark against your forehead. Failure is part of what we have to do. And we have to learn to live with the fact that at times we're going to get rejected we are going to be rebuffed we are going to find that we've made an idiot of ourselves and you know no one likes to humiliate themselves i still have nightmares about you know the moments where i've felt oh my god i screwed that up how could i have got that so wrong um but you've got to do that because i think that otherwise you know you can play everything really safe and i'm not and this is i'm not kind of i'm this is not me advocating you know doing stuff recklessly because Because I think recklessness is equally, you know, what's the point of, you know, when I hear some of the risks that people take that are just preposterous, that you haven't even thought about what the dangers are.

56:22But equally, I think the idea that you just stay under your woolly, you know, nice warm duvet and never cross the road for fear of getting run over means that you are never going to explore the world. And it's fabulous. And, you know, it's honestly, I mean, I mean, the weird bit about, you know, you talked about being in Afghanistan. never felt more alive in a weird kind of way because of the threat of death and you know just your senses of the colors the vibrancy of everything just feels more kind of alive and potent than just humdrum daily life and i heard you had you know alan de botton on the other week and you know he was talking about a lot of life is ordinary yeah it's true and we do live with that But you've got to challenge yourself.

57:08Speaking of Alan de Botton, we always ask these questions, which I'm going to ask you, which is not quite yet. We're nearly there. I asked him what his biggest turnoff was. And he probably gave my favorite answer, which he said, when people are certain, when they don't go, hmm, or maybe. How important is it for people to change their minds and not be so certain on things? the weird thing is you you asked me as i've got older i've become less certain about everything i think you know when i was 25 i was absolutely i thought i had the answers to everything we were talking about i was talking about this podcast last night to my daughter anna and she was saying you know why the hell are you doing that no she's no she was said what what you know kind of you're going to get our strength and weaknesses you're going to get asked this you're going to, you know, and I, and she, and I said, oh God, what are my strengths?

57:58She said, well, I, because, you know, I've always driven her mad because I've always challenged every argument. You know, I've kind of come at it from a contrarian point of view. Which is healthy though. Yeah, which is healthy, which is to debate, which is to make people think that they're not a hundred percent right on everything. And debate is really important. And people go against debate for whatever reason, because they think it's arguing and it's not. It's a, debate is good. Yeah. I mean, look, you know, I kind of see some of the stuff in universities where people have been, you know, I hate the phrase, deplatformed or whatever it is, where you know, we don't want to hear your viewpoint on this.

58:28You think, well, you know, you don't have to be convinced. Listen to the argument and counter the argument. You know, that's how we kind of move forward in life is we, you come up with an idea, but actually I think your idea is wrong. This is a better idea. Well, actually your idea is okay, but it would be improved further still if we could, you know, that's how you make progress. And I just think that the ability to listen is really, really important. John, I've loved every minute of this. No, you say that to everyone. Well, I do, but I really mean it on this one. John, I really do listen when we're recording this Monday morning and I don't know, just, I'm going to be honest, I was a bit nervous about this one because you're so highly educated in the world of politics and perhaps sometimes there's a bit of imposter syndrome from my side because you're an amazing broadcaster and all these things.

59:22No, but you are. But so I was a bit nervous coming in and I thought it was just fantastic. We like to end with eight questions and you have to be honest and you can make them short or long. It's totally up to you. Are you ready? No. Good. Can I go now? No, you can't. I think I need to go to the toilet. You can't. Please, sir. Not allowed. What's a saying or phrase that always makes you smile or cheers you up? It's the motto in life, which is if you stand by the riverbank long enough, the body of your enemy will eventually float past. And it's a great piece of resilience advice, which is that every time you think, oh my God, it's over and my career is ending and nothing, and then you kind of see that the person who's been blocking you has been fired and suddenly the world opens up.

1:00:08Never think it's all over. There you are. That is so, I was talking about that with my wife last night. It's the old Chinese proverb. It's fantastic. when we think we're down and out we never are I love that never give up hope best compliment anyone's ever given you you look like Robert De Niro and then there was once on a plane where I was flying from Washington to LA and the woman mistook me for the cool good looking doctor in Grey's Anatomy and she kind of says are you And I said, no, sadly I'm not. I'm just a Brit who happens to be on this plane. And so I think that was pretty cool. Who is it?

1:00:52Was he just voted sexiest man in the world? Patrick Dempsey. Is it conceivable that I could have been mistaken? Oh, you see, I've got production help here. So anyway, so that seemed the most bizarre thing ever to be. And I told my daughter that. She just laughed. Laughed erisively. Dr. McDreamy. Dr. McDreamy, there we are. What scares you most about yourself? Bad judgment. Bad judgment. Occasionally, I suppose I kind of want to give people the benefit of the doubt. And occasionally, you give people the benefit of the doubt. And you think, oh, I shouldn't have done that. When was the last time you cried and why?

1:01:31I mean, there's the sort of, there's the easy answer, which is watching a movie on a plane, which I don't know why. I think there is something about being at 36 ,000 feet and this sort of existential angst that the plane could crash at any moment. But somehow rom-coms just kind of have me blubbing like a baby. Oh, I suppose, I mean, recently, you know, kind of death and, you know, having to deal with stuff like that and the sadness and saying goodbye made me cry. Yeah, that was quite recently in a hospital, seeing that still body. Yeah. I'm sorry, John. No, no. What's something you can't let go of?

1:02:11Youth. it's an interesting one because i don't think your brain ever suddenly starts thinking i mean yeah physically you know you kind of you can't move around a tennis court in the way that you used to you can't run like you used to you know my knees are shit and it's kind of crap like that but but mentally i still feel excited by the world and so you know i can't i can't let go of that great answer what would you be embarrassed for people to know you like or want too much and i'm not going to say um it's funny actually embarrassment is one of those things that does you know there are some people who just i don't give a damn i don't give a flying whatever and i kind of you know i cringe at certain things and i suppose the sort of there must be a streak in me of wanting to be accepted.

1:03:05I'm eager to please. And so, yeah, that's not, I don't think that's a great thing, to be honest. I think that, so I do get, there are things that make me feel embarrassed when I, you know, just sitting here now thinking about it. I'm the same. I'm exactly the same. What turns you off? Arrogance and certainty. I think that people who just are so confident of their own rightness and don't give room for doubt i just find them very unreal as people and i think it's a sort of unhealthy and unnatural to be like that what turns you on being called robert de niro yeah

1:03:51being with people who are doing things for living life who are making their way who are excited by the adventure that we can all have and who want to do you know make the world a better place and i i mean that sounds a kind of i don't know whether that sounds a really sickly answer. But yeah, it's people who've, you know, got that sort of positive energy about things that can be done and see the potential ahead. What do you like most about yourself? I mean, just really super smart, good looking, suave debonair. No. Not the obvious. Yeah. I mean, obviously that all goes without saying. This is, you see, this is where if you do this in america you could really screw this interview up i know i once i once did a conference where i i said you know and i was i had to do a thing about communication skills and we played this show real and i said at the end of it i have no idea why you've invited me i mean i know nothing about this subject whatsoever you know did all that kind of faux self-deprecating i came off stage at the end of it and this american woman said you never ever say that in a conference of mine you go up there and say i kick ass you know and that's why and that's why you're there um so what do i like about myself i suppose there's again it's double-edged i think generosity of spirit last question who is going to win the american election can i go now it's gonna be i mean i want your honest answer i honestly i i wish i could say in my bones i feel it with absolute certainty.

1:05:34You know, if I had to bet a thousand pounds on it, I'd say I'm not going anywhere near the bookmakers. If I had to bet 10 pounds on it, I would say Kamala Harris marginally, because I think that, you know, we're talking politics now. In 2016, Trump won the election. Not a lot of people saw it coming because it was underestimated the support he would get from the male pale stale brigade the old white men who lived in trailer parks who polished their guns who didn't have much education but who came back onto the grid to vote trump i think in 2024 the hidden superpower is young people who feel that a woman's right to choose has been taken away from them because of the overturning of the abortion laws who want to go back on that taylor swift has had an impact You know, you can't deny it.

1:06:29Billie Eilish coming out for Kamala Harris. I think maybe that young people will vote in this election. A lot have registered to vote. There's been a very high early voting. I think that probably, not definitely, but probably works in Kamala Harris's favour. John, thank you so much for coming on. Great company. Thank you so much.

1:06:54That was great. That was good, wasn't it? That was so good. Did you enjoy it? I really loved it. It was fantastic. And little note to the listener, I'm Pete behind the curtain, we finished right on time because John had to zoom off to record the news agents. And just what a lovely, lovely man. There's something very generous about him and he just wants the podcast to be good. Yeah, he said it himself. He's very charming. I absolutely loved it and learned a huge amount. That was amazing. Hey, listen, if you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe to our show. It helps us so much. I cannot explain.

1:07:31And we're on YouTube. And we're on YouTube, so you can go and watch it there. And you can send us an email, greatcompany at jampopproductions.co.uk, or you can slide it onto our DMs, Great Company Podcast. Let us know anything or everything that you want to tell us, because we'd love to hear from you. Little owls. Little owls. What an amazing episode. And we can't wait to see you next week for another episode of... Of Great Company.

1:08:08Hello everyone, we're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from Nearlyweds and then Newlyweds. But now guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newlyweds is now Nearly Parents and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood, I guess. Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying not to kill each other. Get ready for Nearly Parents, your favourite new podcast.