MICHAEL OWEN: The Price I Paid for Being England’s Golden Boy

0:00I was born to be a footballer. England's youngest player of the 20th century, signed for Liverpool senior team at 17 and Ballon d 'Or at 21. To achieve that much at such a young age. For the first three, four, five years of my career, that was Michael Owen. If you want to watch the back eight years of my career, then my kids say that. Everyone says you're bored. Does it frustrate you? Hi, I'm Michael Owen and I'm in great company. What is your moment, your proudest moment on the pitch? You think about it, it gives you goosebumps. FA Cup final, Liverpool 2, Arsenal 1. Biggest moment, 97th minute or something.

0:41And you feel the crowd going like that. You've got to go cold and calm and relax. Focus, concentrate, great touch. Boom, boom. My body was my big problem, it let me down. 2006 World Cup, playing at Sweden. When I did mine here, yeah. What are you thinking when something like that happens? That would be the biggest dagger to my heart. What does it do mentally to you as an athlete? The most important thing in life is family. My son is clinically blind. It must be pretty scary. Oh, it's shocking, yeah. And you blame yourself for it. I get to spend like three times more time with my lad because he's got an eye condition.

1:18Every time we sit at a restaurant, he's by my side. Need to cut his food because he can't. And I always say to him, son, your eyes are going to be better one day. There will be a transplant. You're going to be like almost have superpowers. That's amazing. Bonus one. Shag, marry, avoid. Wayne Rooney. Gary Lineker. Aventura. I'll marry Waza. I certainly won't want to shag him. So who are you shagging and avoiding? Um. Hey everyone, it's Chris Guillebeau here, host of the Side Hustle School podcast. This episode is powered by AT &T Business. In my early days, I did some of my best work in parked cars or coffee shops.

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4:29Guys, we have Michael Owen on the show today. I'm not kidding you. My eight-year-old self would be freaking out right now. Maybe my 10-year-old self. Michael Owen, Liverpool legend, England legend, Ballon d 'Or winner. Yeah, Michael Owen is on the show today. I cannot wait. things we talk about I never knew about him and we set the record straight on whether he's boring or not okay before we start the show can you do one quick favor click that subscribe button it's completely for free it means you join our amazing community it means we keep making this show better for you guys each week if you like one thing thank you so much okay enjoy this wild episode of Great Company with Mike Lowen Fessy man thank you for this well when I told my Mrs.

5:12and daughter that I was coming and I was like oh my god that is the best show ever and she also she also said he's so like you he's dead funny which nobody will believe obviously he's so like you he's dead funny and he's and he's got a right fit wife and she rolls her eyes at him all the time as well like like mum does type of thing so apparently we're very similar dude I love that I love everything about that and the last thing she says yeah punching above the weight she said Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you are. As I walk down the road, people just salute me. They go, have you done that again? Yeah, I don't know.

5:45It's great punching above your weight, isn't it? Man, are you kidding me? Like, if I'm being totally honest, I don't really want someone to say, you're punching a little bit lower. Imagine it. Yeah. Imagine it. I'm quite happy. I can take the stick of thinking, yeah, you're just an average looking guy, but the missus is beautiful. I much prefer that. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. But my wife does have to say, I go, do you think you're punching or am I punching? And she'll be like, little bit. I play that card. I give us numbers out of ten. I reckon I'm like a six and a half. This is in the documentary. I do that as well.

6:19What do you reckon you are? And she's like so, she's not like me. I'm like, but she'd be like, well, I'm probably a six and a half as well. Come on. Fair play. I give myself a seven on a good day. Well, I say six and a half because I don't want to sound too bad. I think I'm a seven. I think I'm a seven. If I had an extra couple of inches in height, before you look at me, in height, let's just quantify that. then I reckon I might get to a seven, yeah. My height kills me. Five foot eight, isn't it? I think I'm about, I'm five nine on a good day. If I've slept well, I'm five nine. But I think when God made me, he took my height away.

6:51He said, I can't give you six foot. Can't give you everything. You can't give you everything. I mean, you've got everything. You can't give you everything. How would your kids describe you? Attention seeker.

7:04A knob.

7:08Loud. Drinks too much And when he does He gets louder Generous I think they would think I'm You know I would I'd do anything for My family and my friends And I'd spend my last Penny on them And I reckon if I asked And they would say that You were just You were just there for them Absolutely Misinterpreted They would say What do you mean by that? Absolutely Well You'll see in this documentary that we're bringing out. I think, no, I think, like even my kids say, dad, like, everyone says you're bored. Like, where's this come from? I'm like, I know. I know. I don't know. I might be. I possibly am.

7:55They're like, you're what? I don't know. I always trace it back to when I made my name, when I came to the conscience of people around the world, was in a World Cup. Yeah This is in 98 In 98 And You've got the darling Of English football I.e. David Beckham And you've got this New young Fresh faced kid That's just got into the team That everybody's Demanding that should play Etc And obviously One person gets sent off And is now the villain What happened? Well I've come out Of that World Cup And obviously I've scored The goal I've scored And now the whole world Is who's this young kid And certainly Everybody in the UK And Beckham's been sent off With a red shirt And Beckham's been sent off So it's a wonderful thing for the tabloids at the time.

8:40Let's make one guy the devil and one guy the angel. And then there's a lovely story. So I was whiter than white. I was smiling. I was scoring great goals. I was the new darling of English football. And everybody loved me at the time. And what do you think my agent's going to do? He is going to capitalize. And I had brands falling over themselves. But I wouldn't go with anyone that weren't clean cut. This is Michael's image. This is this. So I was then, the first time anybody knew about me, I'm just this young, fresh-faced kid that's white than white, that's just scored a great goal, and all that.

9:14And I've become almost a boring, straight, blah, blah, whatever words you want to use. And the only way I can describe that image that I've currently got is it's just emanated from there, and I've really done nothing to change it, and I'm not arsed about it. You know what I mean? my kids will say to me just why do people think you're boring I was like I can only think this or the way I come across I don't know but they're like dad you're the fucking maddest dad in the world it's like how? and all my teammates are the same and sitting with you now and meeting you here that is not the impression I get at all all my teammates I'll go to work tonight I'm doing the you know the game tonight for the Premier League and whoever's on with us they all laugh and they all laugh at me the way people view me.

10:04Still conning the British public, Mo, and whatever, whatever, whatever. It's like... Does it frustrate you? No, I'm not that bothered. I'm not that bothered. I actually find it quite funny because part of the documentary, we've actually, I think they've done a really clever job in saying, do you know what? Everybody, let's get our cards on the table. Everyone thinks you're boring. Let's open it out with you saying, you know, and then show all your boring bits over the years. So when I was 18, and I was getting to do all these things with these brands. Obviously, I had such a monotone. I was just a footballer.

10:37I didn't know what to do when you put a camera or a microphone. Yeah, why would you? So when I'm talking, I'm very much like monotone and it's like, oh my God, he is so boring. So that has all just stuck. So we actually get those clips out and just show how boring I was and then we go into the show, which probably shows me in my natural environment. Well, it does, in my natural environment with my kids and doing the things I do. How do you handle, I can't, the documentary, I can't, I cannot wait for, it's on Amazon Prime. How do you handle the, when you're that young and you just play football, right?

11:10That's what you do. And what I'm finding, your dad, Terry, was your coach from six years old. He was a pro, but he played for Everton. And he wanted to give you that life that he sort of didn't quite reach, right? He wanted to sort of make you into this football, I sort of imagine, right? and so you achieve it and you're 18 years old as you said you're the sweetheart of England how do you handle that attention that fame the tabloids everything at that age it's it's hard to say what I did and what I didn't do I just was myself yeah you know what what do you do you just the only sanctuary really is when you step across a white line and then you you know then that's my office I'm totally at ease on a football pitch it's the off the field things that change your life it's the way people act with you or talk to you and the change in their behaviour towards you it's like I'm still a normal I'm just bloody good at football I'm not I'm not I'm not an alien all of a sudden why are you you know your mates would be sort of almost like it's really strange they became almost a bit nervous around you conscious you've known me for 18 years and all of a sudden just because of a happening or what's happened over the last year then you treat me it's not me changing it's people that that no don't get me wrong fame fortune changes a lot of people and and I get that and I accept that but I found a lot of it was I was still doing exactly the same things I was coming home going down to the snooker club with my dad and you know and doing all the same things that I'd always done but but the football pitch was where I just felt at home and comfortable and cool and everything else how was your how did you have so much confidence I'm going to run you through some of your stats Cats for England 89 goals for England 40 career goals 163 163 what that was just for Liverpool surely 150 in the Prem so I've definitely scored more than that Helen Helen Helen Helen I mean if you'd said 204 I would have let it slip because it might have been a few more and he's not competitive which is good here we go we've got better stats 260 to 263 is defensible there's a few questions 260 to 263 yeah one for Stoke is that right?

13:32what's what's wrong with that? that was my just because of the team that's a little bit there's a lot of nice Stoke fans you know that goal for Stoke was my 150th in the Premier League you remember that yeah so Helen yeah Helen but you know So England's youngest player of the 20th century, signed for Liverpool senior team at 17 and Ballon d 'Or at 21. And that is, to achieve that much at such a young age is crazy. 21 years old, I didn't know who I was, what I was doing, if I was turning left or right, I was figuring life out. You're thrown into this environment where you're young, you're great at football, and you're winning these things and you have to start making adult decisions and handling finances and everything.

14:16That's a lot to deal with. And if I said to you, I think I was past my best at 21, and nearly shot to bits, then it's mad, isn't it? You weren't. Well, I was. I mean, all of my... You look at every single thing I achieved in my life, or in my footballing career, I should say. They were all in the first third of my career. I was gone at that. I was, like, snapped hamstring, did my knee. I was gone by then. If I hadn't have got injured and I could have just replicated... Forget getting better. if I just stayed the same as I was from 17 to 21 and you just times that by three. Let's say you can have a 12-year career or whatever, 15-year career.

14:56Well, then I dread to think what I could have achieved then. But I achieved all that in the first four or five years of my career and then I was a fraction of the player for the rest. Can you explain that to me? Because there's a sort of saying which is where you have athletes or typically foot, you run out your legs. You play because what we see is the public, right? We see a footballer start for Liverpool, 17 years old. And we think, oh, that's the start of his career. You've been playing since you're six years old. Yeah. And we forget that. Yeah. We think that's where you're starting. Absolutely.

15:31So what happens to you, your body, your mind, when you're playing that much? Explain that to someone. Well, it all is a lovely progression. And mine was a lovely progression. But if you look at, I mean, it's easy. and I'm not trying to compare myself to these people, but it's easier if you talk about people that are absolutely in the limelight because people know about them more. But if you look at great players like a Gaza, for example, very similar, you know, an unbelievable start to his career. You look at R9. I mean, for the first five years of his career, or it might have been six, seven, eight years of his career, I played with him at Madrid when he was at the end of his career.

16:09He could hardly bend his knee. What? I mean, he had so many bad problems. But I would say that R9 is the greatest player that's ever set foot on this planet. And if you could just replicate what he did, if he had just stayed the same and not got injured, we would be talking. I mean, George Best, George Best only played till he was, like he was a baby when he retired. But going back to your question, for the first three, four, five years of my career, that was Michael Owen. if you want to watch the back eight years of my career then i well i'd i'd hope that you wouldn't i'd hope that you'd let me off and sort of realize that you get big injuries in your career you get big problems like that and my body was my big problem it let me down then you can't sustain it this is the hardest sport in the world to stay at the top it's everyone wants to do it every youngster chomping at your heels wanting your place in the team it's uh and i couldn't sustain it because my body let me down.

17:09Just quickly, quick, Tadjian. You think R9 is better than Messi? Yeah. But if you say to me, who's the best player of all time? I'd say, well, Messi. He's done it for years and years and years and years. Ronaldo, you go and ask Sir Alex Ferguson or Mourinho or anyone, they will all say R9. I'm pretty sure. Why? He was a freak. Like a freak. Did you see him? Did you see him? Yes. Yeah. He was like, nothing we've ever seen. Everyone will say the same. I saw an interview with Mourinho the other day, and they were saying who's the best, greatest player all the time. He was just like, oh, nine. But it was only for a few years.

17:50A few years. And so when you're judging who's the best player ever, like, how are you judging it? Longevity has to come into it, I guess. 100%. So that's why Messi, Portuguese, Ronaldo, although they will probably go stand head and shoulders above. How can someone like Messi, Ronaldo, these players play until they're nearly 40? It's beyond me. I couldn't do it. I mean, I snapped my hamstring in two at 19, let alone at 39. Yeah. Like, I was born to play football, but I was always born to get injured as well. I mean, my dad was an injury-prone player. All my brothers and sisters are all electrifyingly quick, but all of them pulled muscles.

18:33it's a it's a family it's it's genetic family thing yeah because i i suppose that's the um how do i how do i describe let's try to get from personal point of view i i always talk about like my failures in life right like and i think what are my failures never seen as failures but things that changed my life when i was 18 years old right i always got injured as well i played rugby wanted to go pro i caught the ball ran ran across the pitch someone tackled me and my acl ligament went and I was quick I was fast maybe not your pace but I was fast I would love to run a 100 meter race against you I think I'd have you you'd definitely beat me now I would definitely I think listen 18 year old Jamie versus 18 year old Michael I'd have you and in the what's in that water when I came in there was a fridge with the vodkas and I did debate having one but you've obviously been on them but I remember my knee going and I remember lying on the ground and I was in Italy at the time on tour.

19:30And I remember grabbing my knee and going, and I remember saying, my season's gone. That's my season gone. It was the beginning of the season. My season's gone. My season's gone. And I never played rugby again after that. Yeah. You should have been thinking my career's gone. It's a nightmare. And I remember... And the worst thing is, when it's your knee like that, so it's a challenge, it's like, that's luck, isn't it? That's just bad luck. You know what? And my injuries, what started my injuries, was not necessarily... Well, it is bad luck if you get injured, I suppose. but mine was a conditioning type of thing, you know, or a body makeup type of thing.

20:03I was running. No, no one was near me when I snapped my hamstring in two. So it's a fundamental problem with the way I was made. And I never had an injury all my life. And as you said, I've been playing five games a week since I was six years old. I've played thousands and thousands and thousands, never missed a game, and then boom. But it was 2006 World Cup playing against Sweden. When I did my knee, yeah. You did your knee, and I remember watching it, and you went down. Yeah. What are you thinking when something like that happens? You're on the main stage, on a pitch, and you can feel your knees gone.

20:39Well, the initial thought is that's my World Cup gone. So you're so sad that you just, you know, this is a huge tournament, obviously, and it's like out the tournament. And then sort of that settles down after about 10 minutes. You start coming around, and then you think, oh, no, this is going to be like, how long Doc how long are these if it's a crew show how long it's like seven months maybe whatever it's like right oh god that's next season oh my god so it's a tournament it's season right any sort of problems after well need a good surgery and the rehab needs to go well and hopefully you just get back as good as you left the pimp so that's not even a guarantee you can't come back strong everyone gets injured and say oh I'll come back stronger you can't you're you're ripping apart your body in two if it rebuilds and goes perfectly, you can possibly get back to the left.

21:29You're not going to come back better. But you've got to convince yourself you're going to. Otherwise, you might just retire there and then. So yeah, it's the worst thing that can happen in football. And you were known for your pace and your skill, but your pace was everything. And that ultimately takes you down a notch or two. And can I say, what does it do mentally to you as an athlete when your body starts to let you down, when you have an injury like that? Mentally, where do you go? Well, a mental anguish and a mental, not depressing, but it's so depressing to think that you're never going to be the same player again.

22:04The mental side is one thing. Like, I was an instinct player, so you get the ball now, and I think, let's say you're Steve Gerrard or Paul Scholes, I know that you're on my wavelength, you get the ball. I don't need to think, I'm sprinting, I'm making a diagonal run, I'm staying on set, whatever I'm doing. But that's how I used to hurt people. sprinting over the top, using my pace. But when now you get the ball and I've had multiple hamstring injuries and I know that if I turn and sprint now, I'm going to pull my hamstring, you're now having to think instead of react to instinct. So all I became in the second half of my career was what can I do?

22:44What were my strengths? I could, obviously after getting injured, I could finish. I was cold in front of goal. And as I say, I had pace. never linking the play up was a strength that I didn't need to. That was the most potent weapon of all. So why am I going to do something that is not going to hurt defense? So when that injury came and when I could no longer sprint, I had to try to change my game and try to do something that would be effective. So all I did was try to link play and get in the box and just become basically a goal scorer. So there's a generation of people that watch me play that thinks, Michael, I was a bloody good finisher.

23:24But that's all he was. He was just a finisher. And that would be the biggest dagger to my heart because obviously you watch me at 18. It was one of the things that I was very good at. At the end of my career, I was only a finisher. I could give no more. I couldn't sprint. I was average at linking the play up anyway because it wasn't what I used to do and wasn't what I honed as one of my USPs, let's say. and all I could do was finish that was the only thing I was good at anymore so I used to just basically become a goal hanger and score goals if the ball dropped to me and that's just not what I was and that's why it was quite a depressing end to my career yeah 33 when you retired from football I just feel like that's so young I know it's crazy and I wish it was years before really yeah I hate no I didn't hate it the problem was I would still score the odd goal and it's like oh my I can still do it but then you know the next few weeks it's oh yeah I didn't it was a job because I remember when you went to United and you got the number 7 number which Cantona had and Beckham had I took it off Ronaldo you took it off Ronaldo right and I remember your debut you scored the winning goal did you not?

24:38it was about it was early yeah it was about the third game of the season against City yeah yeah you know and so those little moments yeah I could still produce you could still produce and you were like there and back here we go exactly but that type of finish that was absolutely what I could do. I didn't have to sprint. I had to show a little bit of cunning, a little bit of movement, a little bit of this, a little bit of a great touch, cold under pressure, biggest moment, 97th minute or something. And you feel the crowd going like that and you've got to do opposite to everyone. You've got to go cold and calm and relax, focus, concentrate, great touch, bump, bump, finish.

25:17You know, you've got to go through that process. Get out of here. So you can feel the emotion of the crowd. You can feel them all rising out of the seats. You feel those seats go up in the stadium. And you just have to laser and focus. Here we go. That's why there are no goal scorers about. You're doing something that is totally the opposite to nature and to what we all... If you think about watching a game of football, the closer you get to the box, the more you see an opportunity coming, the more you tense up, the more... You might stand out your seat and you take a breath or your heart rate goes, all of these things, you're getting excited.

25:56And I'm doing the same. I'm smelling a chance is about to come. When that ball drops out the sky, I'm thinking, come on, Giggsie, good touch, I'm in here, back away. I'm going through all these things. And as much as I'm getting excited and my attention is sharpening, I've then got to click into cold mode type of thing. It goes totally against what everybody else... And what I would naturally do, if I'm watching a game now, I'd get excited when I... But when you're in that situation, you just... And to have the ability to go the opposite way to what nature says is a very rare thing. And that's why there's not many finishes about.

26:39What is it like scoring a goal? Especially for England. What does it feel like? Maybe scoring your first one in front of a crowd, putting on that shirt. It changes. If you're in a friendly and it's the fourth and a 4-0 win, it's fine. It's great. It's all right. But the good ones are the good ones. You know, a World Cup or a 97th-minute winner or FA Cup final, scoring two goals in the last five minutes of an FA Cup final when you're 1-0 down against the Invincibles is pretty smart. You're 18 years old. You're a prodigy. You're this kid who's just come up through Liverpool. Played for senior team when you were 17 years old.

27:14You get called to the World Cup. You're 18 years old. And you come into it. And I remember sitting on the ground watching the 98 World Cup, England versus Argentina, and you scoring that goal. You look so young. You can't be that old. I love that's what you're thinking as I was getting really into this. 37. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well done. You're looking good. Thank you very much. Don't worry about it. But I remember sitting and watching you, and I remember being like, I would have been eight years old. You were 18. And you scored this goal where you take it around the defender, you go to the right, and you score it top left.

27:52For me, like, there are a couple goals, I think, that I remember in my life. One is yours, and one is the Beckham free kick against Greece. Right. Those are the two ones. For you, do you remember that moment scoring that goal? Yeah, absolutely. I do remember it. It felt all very natural at the time, of course. I love that you just go through the pace of it. You just think, yeah, it was just normal. Yeah, it's what I did. It's just what I was trained to do, what I was born to do, and what I did do all the time. It's not like it was a fluke. I was doing it every week. Obviously, not the exact same goal, but it was just what you do.

28:37I always find it fascinating, people's reaction to it. Because if I throw it back on your toes or throw it back on any other professional's toes and say, well, how do you, you know, a brain surgeon, how on earth do you wake up and, you know, are you not nervous? Are you about to change somebody's life or save somebody or whatever? And then you think, well, the night before, did you have a few drinks or did you go out? Well, of course, they're just normal people that do an extraordinary thing. Yeah, but I tell you what it is. The difference is it's doing an extraordinary thing amongst extraordinary people.

29:11So it's when extraordinary things happen in extraordinary circumstances. So when something's already extraordinary, you've got the best of the best of the best playing against each other. And then an individual does something even more extraordinary. That's what's special about it. It's when that little 1 % or the 2 % separates you from the rest. you go, wow. That's a moment. Yeah, I get that. But somebody's got to do it. Somebody will do it. And why isn't it you or me or whatever? I just, listen, the moment's not lost on me and my age and the audacity and the cheek or whatever the words you want to use, how that outcome can eventually play out like that.

29:56I get it. I get it more now than ever. but it's not surprise I don't find it surprise that's just what I did there's a skill in everything you just did it I just did it it's not like I took a potion before the game it's not like I went and saw a psychologist that was just me then I did the same like a couple of years earlier against Scotland as a kid and then you know scored dozens and dozens and dozens in the meantime it wasn't how people talk about it is almost like it was this out-of-body thing and you did this mad thing on one again it really wasn't so do you think if you spoke to Maradona about his goal he would say the same thing absolutely it wasn't a fluke he does it every day in training I'm sure he scored loads of goals like that it would just happen that there was more eyes watching on that game it was just a big game and do you know what some people haven't got the arse to do it on the big games that's the point most people shit themselves and some people actually get a little bit better because they're show-offs and they love pressure.

31:03Which camp were you in? Were you a bit of a show-off? Yeah. Yeah, this goes back to what my kids think. Oh, I can't do anything without being the best. So what is your moment, your proudest moment on the pitch, right? That still gives you if you think about it, gives you goosebumps for you? FA Cup final. Liverpool 2, Arsenal 1. Nowadays, the Champions League, the Premier League, I get it, it's massive and people probably look down at the cup competition but when I was young the FA Cup final was the biggest game of the calendar winning the FA Cup was everything it's all I wanted to do and we were playing against the invincible era of Arsenal with the Henri's and the Vieira's and all these great players and we got battered for 87 minutes and I just remember you know the royalty, the national anthem, the heat everything that you'd dreamt of putting a suit on before the game watching your heroes coming down the cameras were allowed on the coaches back then all of that and then to go and play in one and just to go I almost liken it to a fight like Muhammad Ali against George Foreman Rumble in the Jungle when he just gets battered and battered but he doesn't even throw a punch that was us and then all of a sudden and it's over I just in the last five minutes scored two goals and it killed Arsenal, obviously.

32:26The feeling of that winning, but feelings of you played a massive part in winning and the happiness of people and just, oh, dreams come true. Yeah, that was the day. If I could live one day again, it wouldn't be the birth of my kids. Nah, sod that. Because I was going to say Palace moment off the pitch. You're like, nah, I can't even think of that.

32:50Hey, everyone. It's Chris Gillibow here, host of the Side Hustle School podcast. This episode is powered by AT &T Business. In my early days, I did some of my best work in parked cars or coffee shops. When I landed my first big contract, I realized I couldn't bet my future on a public connection that cuts out if someone turns on a blender. As a small business owner, you're already wearing at least 10 hats. You shouldn't have to be your own IT department as well. That's why I rely on AT &T Business. They keep your connectivity reliable so you have one less thing to worry about. Powered by AT &T Business, built to work.

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35:32you know watching you admiring you you were just the biggest inspiration to so many people especially my age to sit opposite you now is a real kind of pinch me moment that's very kind of you to say so thank you do you get that a lot do people say that a lot to you becoming less and less only the older people show your age when you say you remember me playing C yeah listen the younger generation obviously have no idea who I am nowadays. They all prefer my daughter or point to my daughter and say, she's famous over there. I'm like, what about me? What about me? But no, older generation still reminisce nicely.

36:07That's strange. So because someone was saying today that, do people know you as Gemma's dad? Or as Michael Owen? Which is kind of wild, right? It's knowing your career that there's this generation or some people know you and some people don't. Yeah, it's happened multiple times where people have pointed at me and I thought, oh, they recognize me. And they said, I'm sure that's that Gemma Rowan's dad over there. So it has happened. I can't deny. And I hate it. You know, I've just become a dad, right? And I talk about this a lot. And my baby's eight months old now. So I'm kind of in the trenches with it all.

36:42It's the worst, isn't it? That age. I could never go back. I don't know how my missus did that. And he's been like sick for like three days straight. They're just a nightmare. It's a nightmare. It's the worst. anybody that thinks being a parent is the worst first year of your life isn't it you've got four kids we had four I mean we had our first we were both 23 and I think we had our fourth by the time we were 30 so we had sort of Gemma was seven and we had four kids or eight and we had four kids I mean how my missus did it my only advice is they do get better when they become proper people but for a father it's hard especially in the first I think for a mother it's bloody hard You know, and I look at my wife, Sophie, and I just, I admire everything.

37:28Like, with your wife, Louise, you just go, how? It's just... It's so much effort, I found. It's so much effort. You know, if you gave me my daughter or my son for an hour, that hour, I just cannot, it's just, whereas my missus just floats through the day and automatically looks after them, they're fine. When I hold, it feels like I've got to bounce them for an hour and I've got to do this for an hour. And it's just so stressful. And every moment you think they're about to die. Exactly. I'm just such not a natural looker after babies. Jeez. But my point was is that how do you, as a parent, how do you make sure that you give your kids the width to allow them to do what they want to do, but also have that fence to make sure that they don't go too far?

38:18Because, you know, like your kids, allowing them to do certain things, whether it's going on a TV show or whatever, You have to allow them to make their own mistakes, right? You do, but if you're very confident in what you've done in the early years of their life and how you've brought them up, then it's not a worry anyway. Do all the hard yards early, get the right foundations, the right principles into them, and you'll never look back. So what was your dad, Terry, like? What was he like to you then growing up? What principles did he give you? My dad never shouted at me once in my life. I can't remember him shouting.

38:50It was my mum that used to always nag us and shout at us. but I had this strange with my dad even though he never shouted at me I was sort of petrified of disappointing him he had this spell on me and I always just wanted to please him always whether it was playing football whether it was just behaving whether it was my school results you know he never once looked at my papers and said well you only got a C and that you only got a D and oh what that but I knew he was looking at them and I knew he'd have thoughts about it so I was petrified of him being disappointed in me. Because you wanted to make him proud?

39:24Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I think you've always got to have, in my opinion, two or three people in your life that it really matters what those people think. Man, I think you're so right. I think having heroes is really important. Yeah. People that you look up to and that you aspire to be because then if you have those people in your life and you really look up to them, it sets you on that track. They're your North Star. Absolutely. Exactly that. And that's what I had. I, as it was, obviously I was a budding young footballer. So people that were in the game of football meant even more to me.

39:57So gaining their approval was really important. So the youth development officer who was an ex-Liverpool player, Steve Highway, he was somebody that if he looked at me, I'd melt. You know, if I did something good and I saw a little twinkle in his eye, thinking, oh, that Michael Owen did well, I would be like, oh. And my dad, those two people, in my life. And as much as I adored my mom and respected my mom and adored loads of people and my teachers and whatever, and be respectful to so many people, there were two people that I did not want to disappoint ever. You know, I used to play rugby. I played a bit of football, but then when I changed school, I started playing rugby, but I was a big sportsman, right?

40:39And wanted to go professional, wanted to go down that road. And I remember my coach, shout out Mr. Greed, his name was. He was incredible. But I still remember running down the touchline and scoring a try. And at the end of the game, he never said this. He said, you played well today. And still to this day... It's unbelievable, isn't it? Still to this day, probably one of the proudest moments of my life. Yeah, it is. It's crazy. I know. I don't know what it is. Like, I don't know why making someone that you admire, that you respect, that you aspire to, someone like that, proud. It's incredible.

41:18It sticks with you. And also, I'm all for these people that pat you on the backside and say, well done every day and how much they love you and how much they do. But when you never say it and then you say it once, it means something so much more. Steve Highway, my coach as a youngster, he never used to tell me well done. He never used to say I'm a good player or anything. But when there was 15 kids in the group and he wanted to teach us all a new skill and said, right, Guys, this is what I want. Or go away and practice this one. And he said, Michael, come and show us that. Just an act as opposed to a, well done, Michael, you're great.

41:54But just to say he's going to show you in front of all the 15, it just, you know, those little triggers, those little, it just makes you think, oh yeah, he does like me actually. What was the moment for you that you knew you made your dad proud? Didn't always have to be football. Actually, that was the easy bit, the football. And there was never a moment. I always felt that my dad's so proud of all of them. And it sounds really corny, but I'm one of five. He is really proud of the kids in general. He's got a lot of faults, but he certainly knows how to make you feel great. And I think I'm always the same now.

42:31One of the best things I do is if I get a day off at home or whatever, once or twice a week, I'll pop my dad a message and we go down the pub together. and to this day my dad's 76 now to this day i leave that pub later on and go to you know go home thinking was he proud of me today not not that it it's not something that i'm trying to but do you know what i mean it's like even to this day i think did i swear in front of him he might he might have been a bit disappointed with or did i do that or did i do that was the conversation and actually i i always go home and think you know spending that time with your dad quality time in the pub we both love you know we both feel comfortable in our local etc but even to this day i still have that tingling in my stomach that our dad yeah dad's proud of and occasionally he'll say you know these trips down to the pub that we you know they mean so much or whatever and you know just that that odd thing but and i don't mean them to me i don't do it for anything other than i want to be with him do you know what i want to spend a couple of hours um you know every every few days with him you know i sent my dad a message because i i sent a message when maybe this is like six years ago right and it was after a conversation i had i sent a message just because i think i'd you know i'd grown up parents divorce all this kind of stuff and my dad is the most incredible person but i felt maybe felt i hadn't said things to him that i wanted to and i couldn't do it really face to face so i sent him a message maybe seven years ago or six years ago just saying just want you to know you're you're the best dad i could ever ask for and the reply that i got back was It's just like, you've never known how proud I am of you.

44:10Matt, still to this day, even if I think about it now, oh my God, something about that father-son relationship is just... How come you couldn't say it to him, to his face? I'm the same. I wouldn't have the bottle to do it. And then I'll probably regret it when he's gone. But no, I'm the same. It's easier to message, isn't it? Yeah, why don't we say it? But at least you said it. Regardless of whether you... Well, that's why I asked, because I couldn't say it either. I can't say it. I can't even say to anyone. But why? I don't know why we can't do that. Is it a masculine thing? I like never, ever tell my kids I love them, but they're the most dearest things in the world, the most precious things.

44:46I don't say anything like that. I just assume that my actions would show them that I love them. But it's a bad thing. What do you think that is because of? Because I have that. I think most of us are like that. But it's not a good thing. It's not a healthy thing. It means that we don't, we're not. I'm definitely trying to be more vulnerable more open more emotional I this is if you say it all the time does it mean anything I don't know you know kissing your kid and sending them to school and oh well done and no matter what they do you just keep saying well done and oh you're and if they do rubbish oh you're trying awfully hard and no I like tough love and I'm not trying trying to condone the way because I would love to be a little bit soft I think it comes with age as well I think the older you get the more you reminisce the more you probably your days are numbered but you know all of these things I think I think you get better when you're older you've probably got time to think a bit more and you realise what mean you know what the true meaning of things are I don't know I'm definitely getting softer but still not soft enough to say something like that You played in Madrid with the likes of Zidane R9 these incredible players right then you moved back and you went to Newcastle and you have said that was a big regret of your career.

46:05Well, a regret because I wanted to go to Liverpool and it was close to Liverpool and we had agreed everything with Liverpool and then Newcastle basically came in from left field that no one knew about and offered twice as much money to Real Madrid and all of a sudden put Liverpool out the picture in terms of Madrid. We're like, well, we're not going to sell you now to Liverpool and they're offering 8 million and they're offering 16. So if Liverpool match the bid, absolutely you can go to Liverpool. I'm like, no, I'm not going to New York. I'm going, you know, they're like, well, you'll stay here then.

46:34That's fine. We want you here. Like, we don't want to stay. It's fine. I'm like, oh my God, everything's sorted. I'm going back to my club. You know, because I never really wanted to leave, but I wanted to go and experience. I just thought, let's go for a year or two and then come back. And that's what we sort of had to handle, a gentleman's handshake. But Newcastle just came in from left field without anybody knowing and just, it was obviously their only chance of getting me because if they had offered what Liverpool were offering, then I was always going to go there. So they basically backed Liverpool into a corner, and then I had a choice.

47:10Liverpool was off the table unless I played hardball, but I knew they wouldn't sell me for eight million. So eventually I agreed. My wife wanted to come home. It was the end of her season, was the World Cup. I thought, got to be playing all the time. A bit nervous about some of the players that he's brought in and might not start every game, etc. So I thought, so the decision was made, sign for Newcastle, but you can have it in your contract. They agreed. And I said, the only way I'll sign is if I can move to Liverpool, you know, for a set fee at the end of that season. So that was the sort of the compromise of going to Newcastle.

47:47And as it happened, we all know I did my knee at the end of the year, etc, etc. And that played out. That makes it sound very disrespectful to Newcastle. No, it doesn't. I don't want it to. but that's the God's honest truth and if it does then that's it doesn't I played for it, I came through the academy Newcastle fans would expect Alan Shearer to be saying exactly the same as what I'm saying about Liverpool that's just I've got a passion for Liverpool and that's what makes football so great it runs in your blood and Newcastle were absolutely my second choice I've got no problems I wanted to go back to Liverpool with your wife Louise and your kids they're moving around the place the whole time.

48:28That must be tough for family as well, right? That you're moving, you're going to Liverpool, then Madrid, then Newcastle. You forget that you look at you and you go, you're the, it's you, but actually you've got this whole family as well. Yeah. Yeah, listen, absolutely. That is something to consider when that's your career. But I'm not the only person and it's not the only career and obviously people aren't going to have their violins listening to me saying, I had to live in Madrid. I had to live in Newcastle. I mean, lovely city, lovely places, lovely people. So I couldn't, but yeah, you're right.

49:02We love our family, love our roots, love our area. So it isn't easy when you're moving. But it is part of the game. And yeah, Louise did it, came to Madrid, struggled, went to Newcastle, but then Gemma was of an age where she needed to start school. So she moved back. So I moved my dad up to Newcastle and we lived up there for a couple of years together. you know you've been you've known your wife since primary school it's unbelievable what do you think the secret is to a happy marriage oh wow um well it's never all plain sailing is it never um everybody will have their their ups and downs um and possibly somebody like me more than most that has actually only ever known one person in my life um lots of people get lots of things out their system by the time, whether that's girls or drinking or drugs or whatever they want to do in their life, they get it all out their system.

50:02And then they tend to sort of mature a little bit and settle down or whatever. I'm not generalizing, but it's, you know, that can happen in life. 100%. Whereas I was virtually married at 17. You know, I mean, I've been with my, with Louise for ever really, and then don't know anything else. And then dad at 23. Yeah. Which is so young. Yeah. But we were really lucky to be in a position financially and such a stable relationship whereby there was nothing stopping us. And I always wanted to be a youngish dad as well. Mainly because I wanted to win the sports day, dad's races. I could think of nothing worse than losing those.

50:44So that was the main reason for having kids young. Buddy, listen, I'm going to fuck up those other dads. That's exactly what I thought. I can't wait to do it. But what do you think? do you think it's louise that keep you grounded do you think it's that family roots that knowing who you are that like because you're so family oriented and this is what i'm so excited for the show that's coming out right to see you and your family together i i sometimes feel like we we for whatever reason maybe it's social media bring us away from what's important the most important thing in life is family so i'm excited for your show because it feels like it's going to be this solid, amazing show about family and life and what it's like.

51:21And I totally agree. And I actually think that we think it's normal in our house. I mean, my, you know, I'm one of five, as I said, my brothers and sisters and my mum and dad all live in one street. You know, I bought them all a house when I was 19, 20. And that's not to say, oh, well done, Michael, and give me a... It wasn't meant to be, but it's more to the point that I've been brought up in this family. I don't know any different. And you're right when you start looking around and you think, wow, I thought this was the norm. You know, I thought doing everything together as a family and, you know, whatever it might be.

52:00Like family was the only thing in my life. And if you were a friend and you could penetrate into our family, then actually that's, you know, you're part of our family as well type of thing. And the same with my kids. It's like, my kids all live at home. It's weird. I could think of nothing worse than that. But obviously, they will leave and do their own thing. But I see it as normal. But I think when people watch our show, they'll think, bloody hell, that's a strong and totally normal, natural. People will be their own judge of that. But you're right. What do you think viewers will see? What do you think that you're going to expect from the show?

52:38What do you want people to take from it? Because I can't freaking wait. No, to be honest, I can't wait. I can't wait for people. And it's strange, isn't it? Because most people are quite private. How the hell would you want cameras in your living room and things like that? But we've actually really enjoyed it. And Gemma's always been in the public eye. I've always been there. It's not a problem. I'm not that bothered at all, to be honest. And I hope people like the family. Of course, I do. I mean, these are my pride and joy. These are people that I've had an influence on, you know, bringing up and having the right morals.

53:15I think people will possibly be surprised at how close we are about how much we take the piss out of each other and how much we shout at each other. And I think there'll be a little bit of empathy. Obviously, my son is clinically blind. And all the challenges that James has day to day, that'll be a... I was going to say an eye-opener. That'll be a little bit of a bad pun, wouldn't it? Can you just explain that he hasn't... explain his... James has got Stargardt's disease. So he was born with a degenerative condition in his eye. His light sensors are really poor. So when it's dark, he sees a little bit better.

53:50Light reflections and all the rest of it. But white, coloured white is a nightmare. He can't see any contours. If he goes skiing, he will literally hit a mogul and probably break his neck within two minutes. So he needs it quite dark a lot of the time to not, you know, one for him to see, but two for him not to get headaches and things like that. His peripheral vision is okay. It's quite good. But his central vision is shocking. And you will see in the doc, like some of the things that he does to, you know, get by in life, which are hilarious. And he laughs at himself. I mean, there's one scene that I just, I'm not, I can't give it away, but things like when he's pouring a drink, he has to stick his finger in over the thing, you know, just so he knows so it doesn't start overflowing.

54:40And I remember, I can't remember if it made the cup, I remember asking him how he wipes his arse and if that's the case, if he can't see what's happening, how do you know when to stop wiping? Things like that. I mean, but he just laughs and he takes the piss out of himself all the time and he is just a dude of a lad. When you have a kid, when you have a baby, you just, you want to make sure that they're as healthy as possible, right? So when something like that does happen, and now it's okay, right? Because it's fine, and we're going to see how brilliant his life is in every single way, right?

55:11But when it first happens, it must be pretty scary. Oh, it's shocking, yeah. And you blame yourself for it. But it's only fine now, and you're right, it is fine now. Yeah. Because he's amazing. Of course. And we love, and we, you know, and I look at it and think, do you know what? Every time we sit at a restaurant, he's by my side, because I read him the menu and I need to cut his food, because he can't. whenever we're watching racing he's by my side because I'm giving a commentary whenever he wants to go he needs his dad to take him on his taxi driver I get to spend like three times more time with my lad because he's got an eye condition now I might be a selfish bastard but I think that is I love it I wouldn't want it any different and of course I would give my eyes to him in an instant if we could swap of course I would but let's take the positive from what he is so bright He is almost self-taught.

56:03He is just, he doesn't sit back and pity himself. In fact, it's quite the opposite. He gets out there and he laughs at himself. He can come to my stables. We've got 135 horses. We've got hundreds and hundreds of clients. And we'll have events all the time. And he will pick up somebody's voice. No. And he will walk over. Imagine how scary. He will walk over. Hey, Gary, blah, blah, blah. knows their daughter, knows their son, knows their kids, knows the horse name, knows what happened last time they ran, knows his job and her job or whatever. Wow. Of 135 people. That is incredible. He's just a genius, honestly.

56:44And if he didn't have this eye, and I always say to him, son, your eyes are going to be better one day. There will be a transplant. There will be something that's going to come out. These skills that you've learned, that you've had to push yourself to, you know, be uncomfortable in certain situations. And all these coping mechanisms and all these things, imagine you're going to be like almost have superpowers. And that is something to look forward to. Imagine that. That's going to happen in three, four, five years. Something's going to happen to sort his eyes out. And imagine that moment. It's going to be incredible.

57:18Wow, that's amazing. So it's a positive in my eyes.

57:26Hey everyone, it's Chris Gillibeau here, host of the Side Hustle School podcast. This episode is powered by AT &T Business. In my early days, I did some of my best work in parked cars or coffee shops. When I landed my first big contract, I realized I couldn't bet my future on a public connection that cuts out if someone turns on a blender. As a small business owner, you're already wearing at least 10 hats. You shouldn't have to be your own IT department as well. That's why I rely on AT &T Business. They keep your connectivity reliable so you have one less thing to worry about. Powered by AT &T Business, built to work.

58:01Get AT &T Business at business.att.com. Mod.com is changing the way people battle excessive fatigue. Ever hit a wall in the middle of the day and a third coffee just doesn't do it anymore? Here's what's actually happening. Coffee only briefly blocks adenosine, the chemical that tires you out. When it stops working, your system is flooded and you crash. Modafinil is a prescription treatment that works in a completely different way. Modafinil works by stimulating multiple receptors in the brain associated with wakefulness, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate, and orexin it's a more complete solution that gives you 10 to 12 hours of steady focus and energy to learn more go to mod.com fill out your intake form meet with a license provider and if approved mod alert ships straight to your door go to mod.com to get started that's mod.com

59:08Give me your first team 11 for the players you played with and played against. Oh, wow. What combined? Or the players I played with? Played with and against. Starting from keeper. Who would you have in your 11? Okay, so the best keeper I played with I'd say is Edwin van der Sar. Oh, yeah. Casillas was very good but I think Edwin van der Sar was brilliant. Love that. Best keeper I played against is Peter Schmeichel. Should we do him as we go? Just do your top 11. My top 11 that I played with. Right. and played against you can pick both but just in goal oh right anyone basically basically anyone okay so Schmeichel in goal yes huge right back Cafu left back Roberto Carlos come on centre backs this is tricky I might go English you know Rio was an absolute Rolls Royce of a player John Terry was brilliant as well do you know what I played again Yapstam Marcel Desailly was a monster Go on I'm going to say Rio and John Terry Really?

1:00:13Yeah Over Yapstam? Yeah Okay fine Midfield let's go This gets harder How many are you playing in the midfield? Eight if I can Zidane Gerrard Yes Right They're the two that just Non-negotiables What should we play? Four. What do you want to play? Let's play 4-3-3. Okay, playing 4-3-3. Give me another midfielder. Scholes? Yeah, Scholes. You could have... Figo was good if you put him central. Oh, my God. Did you play against Ronaldinho? Oh, sorry, against. Oh, sorry, I'm thinking of players I played with. Yeah, sorry. Zidane and Gerrard and... Well, if that's the case, then we will go for... Let's play Ronaldinho just as the sort of the tan.

1:01:03Yeah.

1:01:07Ronaldo, obviously. I didn't play against Messi. I was on the bench against Messi in the Champions League final. I didn't get on, so I can't have that. You can't have that one. You can't have that one. Right. Sorry, Messi. Sorry, Messi. Well, I'm going to play someone slightly out of position, but Thierry Henry. Great shout. And R9 as my centre forward. There was two players in my life when I was growing up. And I thought, this is when I'm like 13, 14, I was thinking, I'm going to be a player here. I'm good. I'm pretty good. I'm going to be, I would think an international. Wow. I didn't know if I would be better than that, one of the best players, but I thought, and then I switched the telly on and I saw Ronaldo R9 and I had to reconsider overnight.

1:01:51And the only other thing, I won the golden boot in my first year as a 17-year-old, golden boot again as an 18-year-old, and then Thierry Henry came to the league, and I took one look at him and thought, I will never, ever win a golden boot again. They were the two players that literally made me think. Everyone else, I felt, yep, I can do what Shearer does, or Rooney does, or Van Nistelrooy, or whoever. I felt as if I, in my own way, however that might be, I might not have been as good as them, but those two players, R9 and Thierry Henry, made me think about my career choice. they were different were you quicker than Henri?

1:02:28over how far? 10 metres? yes over 40? yes really? and then I reckon he might be getting me at 40 I reckon I don't think there was anybody that was quicker than me over 20, 30 metres you were electric but I think there was millions that were quicker than me over 100 that's why you're do you know who was quicker than you? me over 100 maybe I will let you have that Mike can I just say you're a legend you're an inspiration just man and just the documentary is like what I meet and see that I cannot wait that's going to be electric and I'm so excited for it meet the Owens before we go we have quick fire questions are you ready for this?

1:03:08Yeah Here we go what's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? You can't polish a turd That's the best saying ever isn't it? It's so apt in so many ways Best compliment anyone's ever given you? That your kids are well mannered The best what scares you most about yourself? Um, how delusional I am. It's my thing. I, but I, I, I, I'm so delusional. I think everything will be perfect and everything's, you know, just, yeah, and everything's possible. Exactly. It will, it will bite me in the ass one day. I love that. When was the last time you cried? Probably when James was diagnosed with Stargat's disease.

1:03:48Wow. That's a long time ago. That's 11 years ago. Yeah, you should. Don't cry much. You should let that out. I know. What's something you can't let go of? Can't let go of? Could be an injury. It could be a goal. I suppose, yeah, in the back of my mind. Injury? Yeah, the what if. The what if. I mean, incredibly proud of my career, but I think, yeah, it could have been even better if it wasn't for injury. So, yeah, the injuries. What's your guilty pleasure? Oh, wow. Banoffee pie. Oh, come on, let's go. Biscuit bottom, right? Oh, 100%. 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Biggest turn off? People that watch films.

1:04:37Virtually everybody on this planet. Sorry. I think you're a bit of a weirdo. If you watch films, you're a bit of a weirdo in my book. What? Not that I'm not weird for not watching them. Are you serious? Can't watch films. No. Can't watch films? No. What are you doing with your life if you're watching just fakeness?

1:04:58Sorry, 99.999 % of the population, but you're all weirdos. I love that. Your kids must be like, Dad, just let me watch Toy Story. What's your biggest turn on?

1:05:13I can't really say. Can't say anything. on I think buying horses that's my it's another guilty pleasure of mine but it shouldn't turn me on that's like the wrong thing to say when you said it it made me feel something as well yeah felt good then yeah what do you like most about yourself that I can laugh at myself yeah you can take the piss out of me and I'll laugh along with you bonus one shag marry avoid Wayne Rooney Gary Lineker Alan Chirer

1:05:50I'll marry Wazza lovely of course I certainly won't want to shag him no thank you bit too hairy for me he's so funny in fact in fact I would marry Wazza would you really yeah I would he is such a good laugh yeah I don't think it would go to I think we would you would break up yeah in terms of him Who do you... So, what are the others? Marry... Marry and shag. Hold on, no. A married wager. Shag, marry, avoid. Avoid. So, who are you shagging and avoiding? Well, I'd have to... Shagging me in the car? I'd have to, yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. About right. I get that. And so, then you're avoiding Alan Shearer.

1:06:33Yeah. Yeah. Three good strikers, though. Great strikers. Be a fun little... It's not a nice question, that, is it? No, it's not. I'm not bothered about the avoid anything. I'm just picturing the shagging bit. It's a weird orgy, that looks like. So we're going to end there. Thank God for that. Michael, you're fantastic coming. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mike.

1:07:11Hey, everyone. It's Adam, host of Ted's podcast, Rethinking with Adam Grant. And this episode is powered by AT &T Business. When you're building a business, momentum is everything. There's nothing worse than hitting your stride only to have a spinning loading icon bring everything to a halt. When navigating competing priorities, reliability isn't a luxury. It's a foundation. AT &T Business is built to work so you can spend less time troubleshooting and more time focusing on what actually matters. Powered by AT &T Business. Built to work. Get today at business.att.com.