MICHELLE KENNEDY: Becoming a Mum Inspired Me to Build a Community of 5 Million Women | FOUNDERS FRIDAY

0:00Michelle Kennedy: Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things. So why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. I'm Jack Remington. And I'm Ash Home. And we get into all sorts of tomfoolery on our podcast, The Jack and Ash Show. Oh, here we go.

0:37Oh, I'm from up north. I only know about chippies and batter.

0:43If a cherry tomato makes me gay, then my God, smother me in a rainbow and push me down the river by a loo. How amusing. It is amusing. We also help you out with some good. No, let's be honest. It's mostly bad advice.

0:55Michelle Kennedy: Watch and listen to The Jack and Ash Show wherever you get your podcasts.

1:02Michelle Kennedy: When Bumble started, did you know it was going to be a hit? I knew we were doing something special. Why? So you've built Peanut. How many users do you have now? Five million. How that's sinking? 20 ,000 women downloaded the app in three hours. Imagine all those people who told me that women didn't need their own app and weren't lonely or they didn't, and 20 ,000 women told us. Yeah, we do. Wow. Why did you set it up? I was very lonely because my girlfriends didn't have babies and I didn't know what I was doing, truly. I so remember not wanting to leave the house. I so remember it because Finn would cry and then if he cried, people would think that I'm not a good mum.

1:44Michelle Kennedy: I thought I was a monster. I was like, there is something wrong with me. Hey guys, welcome back to the final episode of Founders Friday. We really hope you enjoyed it. Now, before we start, I want to ask a favour from you guys. If you've really enjoyed these episodes, there's only been four of them, We want to know if you want us to continue them. Okay, and the way we want you to let us know is if you can comment in the comment section. If you think you'd like this, if you want to see more, if you want to see more founders, more of these stories being told, please let us know in the comments and then we will take your decision.

2:15Today's episode, the final episode is Michelle Kennedy. She's a great friend of mine. She's a lawyer who went on to help start dating apps like Bumble. and she has now built Peanut, one of the fastest growing female apps in the entire world. She's incredible. She's a great human and a great friend. And today's episode is full of so much information you're going to love. Now, also before we start, if you can click that subscribe button, it takes one second. It's completely for free and it does us wonders. I can't even tell you. If you can do that one thing, thank you. And don't forget to comment if you'd like this series and you want it to continue.

2:47OK, here we go. Enjoy this incredible last Founders Friday episode with Michelle Kennedy. we've met a few times now and i would call you a friend i don't know what you would call you a friend okay well then we're on an equal okay i would call you a friend i would call you someone i know no i would call you a friend and i first came across you because of your amazing business you have which is peanut which i'm going to murder the description of it but this is my description it's a app it's a community you basically have an app which creates a community for women yeah and I came across it because I was interested in different things and different social groups and everything and I came across and saw how amazing you were doing with it and then over the years we become much closer and we see each other occasionally and I find it amazing the resilience that you have had over the years to keep building and building and building and that sort of never give up attitude.

3:46Because Peanuts started in 2017. Yeah. Which is mad.

3:50Michelle Kennedy: Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, it is crazy. Why did you start it? So I was building dating apps and I loved it. It was so cool. How fun. It was so cool. It was the best time of my life. What year is this? So this is like, let's say 2010. Okay. Okay. So it's just the beginning of when apps were becoming something. Exactly. In fact, it was pre-App Store. We didn't have an app. So it was, things were web, and you would have like mobile web, but it was just coming up to like the app store, like in the form that we know it. And so I remember that time, and it was a totally different time, but it was so exciting.

4:34I joined this company, and there were like 30 engineers sitting in a room

4:40Michelle Kennedy: in Denmark Street in Soho. I was like, what is this place? It's so strange. And everyone's drinking Red Bull and headphones on, locked in, writing code. I was like, wow, this is interesting. And it was dating. And also that wasn't what it is now. You know, we talk about dating as if it's like totally socially acceptable, but it wasn't at the time. It was kind of weird to meet someone online. That was the social. What was the website called? It was called Badoo. and yeah there was just this general feeling that people met online that's a bit gross a bit weird and then everything kind of started to change like the social perception of what it meant to me online was changing um and we were really in it and at the forefront of it and i loved it i was it was so exciting we were building things that you know we were using different interfaces that people hadn't seen before.

5:35Michelle Kennedy: You would put something in someone's hand and watch how they used it. That was so exciting to me, like to watch what they were doing and how they navigated around. I was so energized by it. And then Tinder came out and totally changed everything, really. But just quickly, so you had these dating websites, but you weren't, were you the person with Red Bull with headphones on? No way. I wish I was. I think next life, that would be me. You went from being a lawyer, right? I was a lawyer, yeah. So I went in and everyone, again, what a weird situation for the lawyer to walk in and be like, so what are you guys doing?

6:09Michelle Kennedy: It's like a police person asking you what you're doing. Everyone's like, because they'd never had to interact with the lawyer before. So everyone told me everything. Was it all men? Pretty much, yeah. And so everyone just told me because they were like, well, the lawyer's asking, so you have to kind of tell her what we're doing. But it was just because I'm nosy and I want to know what's going on and like to understand. And then you start to really get to grips with this business. What I find is, so you have a strong mind. You grew up in Peterborough. You study? Law. Law, where? Sheffield. Sheffield.

6:40You come out and then you do different things and then you find your way into this dating world. What kind of drew you towards it?

6:48Michelle Kennedy: So I was working in private practice. I was a corporate lawyer. And I'd gone to work for a different company, Biotech. Totally different as a client of ours. And one of the lawyers I used to work for called me and was like, Michelle, it's a dating website. I was like, absolutely not. No way. Firstly, my mom will kill me. Definitely not. And... Are you single at the time? Single at the time. Okay. And I was like, definitely not what I'm going to do. um and i went and i was like this is kind of cool i'm maybe gonna join and and in fairness they'd started to hire some like quite serious other executives so there was a ceo they were hiring and a cfo and so i was going in as gc and it made sense that we would go in and the view was at that point we were going to kind of wrap it and sell it um and then it kind of changed my life and I became obsessed with it.

7:45Michelle Kennedy: And I started working next to the founder and became his right hand. And then, as I said, Tinder came out and changed everything. And we were like, we have to do something different. Why do you think you got an obsession over it? Because I think it feels like you saw an opportunity. Yes. You went in there, you saw people with headphones on, drinking Red Bull, coding, at a time when that must have felt very exciting. Yeah, it was exciting. Because it feels different. And knowing you as I know you, you're an innovator. You see opportunities before people see opportunities. So you must have seen that as like, okay, this is something interesting going on here.

8:27Michelle Kennedy: I definitely thought there was an energy. But what type of energy? Because is it the money? Is it the people? Is it the connection? Because what excites you truthfully about it? It was so different to anything I knew. I was coming from a very corporate world where I wore a suit every day. and I would sit around a you know a boardroom full of guys in suits um and that was a very different world and I walked in and I was like this energy is interesting also like there's something interesting if you're a lawyer yeah for anyone who has kind of been in that world there is kind of a status that comes with that where you're kind of I'm a professional and you have like this like professional status and you walk into that room and the energy is like we're builders and that's a totally different energy and that's really to me that was like exciting and yeah I wanted a part of that explain that to me so when you're when you're a lawyer you have a it's a professional status what do we because if someone says you're a lawyer you kind of go oh that wow so you kind of have that like you know I'm a lawyer I'm a very serious professional person.

9:36Michelle Kennedy: At least in my head, that's how I always perceived it to be. It was quite a serious job. And that's not to say that what the eng team, well, that was serious, but it was like, I don't know. There's something interesting about that, which is you're right that being a lawyer does, for whatever reason, give off that status because automatically you think in your head, educated, smart, driven, probably quite ruthless, because that's what's depicted on TV, film. That's what we know what lawyers are. Lawyers are these people that are, they're badasses and they are our leaders because we don't know about the law.

10:11And so they're going to help us. And they do.

10:13Michelle Kennedy: And they do. And you have to know everything and they do. And we know, and this is how you do it. And it's, and it is quite a different thing to, we don't know, but we're going to figure it out. And that's the energy that is different. I think. Why did you go into law? Oh, you know, just the whole feeling of mum, my mum being like, you can be a doctor, you can be a lawyer, you can be a teacher, you can be an accountant, be a professional, earn your own money, never rely on a man. You know, just really having that in my head. So I was like, okay. And I just couldn't have done the other one. So I went for the one that I thought I could do.

10:52Michelle Kennedy: and then it was the era of like Ali McBeal and all these you know I just thought I was going to walk around the office in little skirts and you know I don't know go to court which I never did I never did I never did I wasn't a litigation lawyer like ridiculous but that in my head that's what I thought I was going to do so going from taking the leap from corporate lawyer to deputy CEO of the dating website. How was that change? How was that for you? So I think that the change was gradual. It wasn't like one day I was a lawyer and the next day I was CEO and now run the business. It was more like I'm nosy.

11:36I am kind of wanting to understand more.

11:40Michelle Kennedy: I'm asking questions. Andre, the founder of Badoo, saying, huh, come and do this bit with me then. Okay. I'm working on things together. And it was way more gradual than that. So I think by the time it had happened, you almost don't notice it's happening. Yeah, because it's so gradual. It's just a kind of, of course, I'll take on that responsibility. No one else is doing it. I'll grab it. Of course, I'll set that function up because it doesn't exist. So I'll just do it. How many users did you have? When I joined 52 million, and I'd never heard of it before. Can you imagine? You joined 52 million.

12:15Michelle Kennedy: We had like a little ticker on the website, and I'd never heard of this website before. Badu, I was like, what's that? The Chinese website. Yeah, what is that? Were they paying customers? No, so they were registered users. But we were profitable. We were making hundreds of millions in revenue. Because you were selling advertising on the website? No, because we were monetizing users. It was not ad-based. So this was users paying to access other users, send messages. It was a game. Wait, hang on. Explain this to me. So you have the dating website, Badoo. You would, as a user myself, I would go on to it.

12:52I would say, great, I'm now registered on this website. If I want to talk to someone else or do that, I would then have to pay in order to do that. Yeah. Wow, so it is a game. It was a game. And there were layers to the game. And dating is a game anyway.

13:04Michelle Kennedy: Absolutely. So you make it a fun user existence. So at the time, before it was in-app purchase, and we're all so familiar with in-app purchase and subscription now. But at the time, and this is kind of the learning I had and how obsessed I was with what we were doing. Because Andre was a genius. He is a genius. Very clever guy. And he would have like SMS. So you would have a short code. So I don't know if you remember that, but you could text 8335 and get a ringtone. Yes. But we had a shortcode to text you. So to get to the other person, I couldn't text you. I had to have a shortcode. Well, every time you're doing that,£1.50,£1.50,£1.50.

13:47Michelle Kennedy: It was incredible. And no one was using shortcodes like that. And by the way, when we were asking the carrier for the shortcode, they were like, no, that's not what it's for. And Andre was like, no, I'm aware of what it's for, but that's how I want to use it. and that's the the power of well if you say no I'll just go to the next carrier and the next carrier and the next carrier and we ended up with a Spanish carrier who said yes and it was just that unbelievable kind of determination that I was like okay this is how we do it we just don't accept that no is the answer Andre found a CEO yeah what was so impressive about because he's a he's done a lot businesses yes it's so badu was his third big one wow uh third big one yeah he uh what makes him he he's you underestimate him that's what i think is the genius he's he's quiet okay uh he's watching everything body language how you interact with things he's he's observing um and his his temperament feels mild it's not mild but it feels mild so he has this kind of aura of like young he he seems young and youthful um but he's kind of brilliant and he's dogged and he just doesn't let anything go and if you tell him no he he would what he doesn't say is oh okay what he does is think you're not the person to deliver and he discounts you and that's a really interesting like way to learn from someone because I didn't dare go and say no to Andre yeah that's what do you think what do you think is the kind of like um the one thing that you see in entrepreneurs yeah or leaders that typically have the same thing I think it's um there isn't an option to fail it's just relentless and I always remember actually an investor of mine who I really admire and him saying to me actually the strength is knowing when to walk away like in a business the strength is knowing when you draw the line and you walk away and I respect that and I can I can see that but I just yeah I just have never had that I don't really I don't know how to do that you just go and you just make it you're just going to keep going well you say that because because Purdue was huge.

16:17It was doing great. It was doing amazing. But then you go and set up your own thing. So you do sort of leave. And in a way, what you do, which I admire, and I think there is truth in that, which is where you need to know the right moment to change, to adapt. And I see a lot of people, I think the big problem that we have in society is that suddenly people wake up in their 30s or 40s and they've been doing the same thing for the 20 years. And they're just like, why am I doing this thing that I'm not really enjoying or liking? Or why am I here doing this? And we get into this cycle. But for you, what I find amazing is that you become a lawyer, you move to a dating website, you then go and set up your own business.

16:53And so you're slightly always constantly changing to follow what you want to do, which is amazing.

16:58Michelle Kennedy: Yes. But I think that makes it sound like more deliberate than I think it was. I don't think it was as deliberate as that. And I don't want anyone to think that it was as deliberate as that, because then they start to feel pressure like, oh, you must know the route. and I didn't know the route. I just knew instinct is huge, I think, and I really rely on it. Yeah. You just kind of instinctively know this is the thing. This is the time. This is the moment. I met Andre that first time and he took me for lunch and he was having spaghetti carbonara. It's such a weird, vivid memory. And I was like, this is so weird.

17:35Michelle Kennedy: He looks so young, like baby faced and he's eating spaghetti carbonara quite like a baby, like quite little. And he's this really powerful guy and he was like you like spaghetti carbonara and I was like I can't yeah I don't mind it it's not my favorite but sure and and you know it was one of I just remember it so vividly but I knew instinctively it was the right move and by the time and there are other things that happened you know we then built what became Bumble and I remember meeting Whitney for the first time and instinctively I was like I I don't know she had something where she could hold she'd look you in the eye very intently and be like mid conversation she'd be like I love your eyelashes mid conversation about business and I'd be like wow and there was something about perspective like so it's like it's interesting it makes you think differently or that's a clever way of interviewing almost and I was like wow so smart what a clever person so you know you just start to and then instinctively I knew that that was going to be something like very meaningful and And when I left to start Peanut, I didn't know that it was going to be like this mission and this obsession that it is now.

18:51Michelle Kennedy: But I knew that the timing was that I just instinctively had to do it then or I might not do it. Whitney Wolfe gets a lot of the credit for starting Bumble. But I don't think a lot of people know that you were there from the right at the start of it. Yeah. What I find really interesting about what you said is what Whitney obviously did in interviews. is she shifts the perspective or makes you remember her in a certain way. And that is really important as an interview technique, I always think. You say, if you're having an interview with someone, how do you get them to remember you? How do you stand out from the crowd?

19:23And I remember speaking to this guy who runs a big VC firm and he was trying to hire a new person. And I actually interviewed him years ago for just a chat on a podcast. And I said, how's your day been? He says, really good. And I just chatted to this really interesting guy. And I said, why was he interesting? And he said, well, we're having a chat and we were talking and he was um uh good and i liked him i was trying to hire him part of the team or trying to hire someone part of the team and halfway through i said well you know and how's life how's everything going and he said well at the moment my anxiety is really quite high i have i have anxiety and i have this thing with gad and he started talking about it and because the interviewee became more human during the interview my friend who who was trying to hire then hired him because it felt like it wasn't just an interview.

20:09And what Whitney almost did in the interview is she became human within the interview, which is quite an interesting way to do it.

20:14Michelle Kennedy: It was such an amazing... It's disarming. Yes, it's disarming because people think you're going to just say the right answers, but actually saying, oh my God, your eyelashes look amazing today. It's disarming. You suddenly go, well, were we friends? That's it. Oh, and you're human and like what a... It's just disarming. But I always think that you're very disarming. Well, that's very kind. No, but I do. I remember when I saw you at the airport with my kids and you were so like so gorgeous with Finn and he was really like you know just like who was that nice man you know and it was just like I think being disarming actually is such a like an incredible tool for anyone to have like being the person in the room who remembers say how you doing yes right or whatever it might be how you You know, how was your night out the other night?

21:04Michelle Kennedy: Remembering a fact about them, like something. Actually, another thing that Whitney was very good at, she would remember details that I had told her about Finn months before. And she'd be like, oh, whatever happened with his rugby, rugby tots or whatever it was called? And you would go... I'd be like, oh, you remember that always. Very, very, very important skill. Because then it makes you feel passable. It makes you feel your thinking. Important. It makes you feel important. and making someone else feel important is really very, very valuable, I think, in life. When Bumble started, did you know it was going to be a hit?

21:39Michelle Kennedy: I knew we were doing something special. Why? Timing, firstly. Okay. There was a timing point. It was women's marches. It was definitely, Witt had just had a very public lawsuit with Tinder. so there was a kind of a moment in time where we were seeing okay she's made a stand we've had me too we've had women's marches there's something here which opens a door so timing definitely and timing is very important sometimes you can have the best product in the world and if the world isn't ready the world isn't ready and it won't land so i think that timing was really really critical can we give an example of anything like that that we can both think of where where where timing wasn't timing wasn't right for something so i can't think of anything yeah but i know there are times so if you think about spotify and where we are with spotify now and you know we we all love spotify but if you think about soundcloud before we weren't quite there were we nearly yes we were nearly there but when spotify came we were the world was ready so i think that there are times when products like the the concept is there but we don't really know that that's what we need and i think that bumble came at a time when we really did need that you know there was starting to be a real like tinder fatigue and we were ready to have something new and the world was talking about women so putting the two together was a really important moment so timing was really important um i think we had a good team the team was great with badu we already had product market fit we knew exactly that the product was going to land because we were already doing it so the risk was really much lower.

23:37Michelle Kennedy: So then it was about, can we tell a story with this product and do we have the right team to do it? So I think we had a great team to do it. So I think those things made it feel special and like something was going to come. And then the one thing that everyone tells me that you have to look for in an entrepreneur or in a CEO or anyone leading is a chip. You just have to have a little tiny chip, something to prove. why and why because i think you just have to drive through all those punches because those punches come hard and fast and frequently and um sometimes they you're on the floor but if you've got a tiny chip that gives you something to prove you'll get back up again and again and again so what's your chip oh i think i've got too many i am a chip um we all have loads of chips yeah whether or not we want to omit them exactly oh god i mean i think what's your big one now yes um i think my big chip is that what you said not many people know how involved i was in other products gone by and so i have to really show that through the wealth of what else i can build peanut um that's my probably my biggest chip now well and the i don't want to dig too deep because I can understand it's in the past and things like that but obviously what my thing feels like is that you were there from the start and then whatever reasons happened and then it's now where it is and you then left?

25:12Michelle Kennedy: Yeah. So look I am so proud. I love Bumble. I have always loved it. Did you ever use it? No. You didn't? No but it is named after my husband. Is that like that's cool isn't it? Yeah it's named after Rich. Get out of here. Yeah because he's Bumble-y and he's like

25:33Michelle Kennedy: so you know that I didn't use it but I love it I love that I love that product and I love what we did and I'm so proud of everything that we did there and I will always love and be connected to Andre and Whit because of that and I am so thrilled that we did what we did and when I left It was pre the IPO and, you know, I went to go and build something with both of their blessing and I loved it.

26:102017, you set up Peanut. Why did you set it up?

26:27Michelle Kennedy: have skipped the line with stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. Hi, I'm Molly. And I'm Tom. And we're the hosts of Nailie Weds. Taking you on the journey from saying I do to our wedding in just a few weeks now. On this week's episode, we tell you all about our legal wedding. Surprise, we're married. So we share all the juicy details and behind the scenes from the legal ceremony, including Tom having an allergic reaction and nearly going to A &E.

27:09In case it nearly getting concussion.

27:12Michelle Kennedy: God. You do not want to miss it. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

27:19Michelle Kennedy: So I can tell you the human reason, then I can tell you the business reason. I want both. So the human reason is I was, I had a two and a half year old. So Finn was five months when we started building Bumble and it was intense. Like he was, he came everywhere with us. He was in Mykonos with us when we were working out how we were going to build Bumble and what we were going to call it and all these things. He was just a little portable bundle. How do you juggle that? At the time, I think I didn't know any better, actually. I didn't really know how to do anything other than just bring him along.

27:58Michelle Kennedy: You know, and there were amazing moments. Sarah Mick, who is one of the early founding team at Bumble, messaged me the other day and she was like, do you remember when he was just sat there with us? And I was like, yeah, I do. Of course, it's my baby. But, you know, it must have been so weird for them that this tiny, chubby little cherub was sitting there while we're like, you know, and then we could do this. and you know wow yeah so he he was very um portable and i was very lonely because i my girlfriends didn't have babies and i didn't know what i was doing truly and i was very anxious and i also anxious about what um everything going wrong not getting it right not doing the right thing how i was feeling it felt weird yeah i felt really odd um i wasn't as sharp actually as i was before and that felt frustrating like i was a bit out of control on that and i like control and i like to know what's coming and i like to do a good job and i like to be the good girl and get the good grades and that's not how babies work and so that would compound quite a lot into like feeling anxious a lot um because you you can't be perfect with them but i think we also romanticize about childhood and about having babies and everyone says oh god it's this and that and things and it but i can see from my wife's perspective it is tough so hard it is so hard and until you're in it it's like running a marathon and someone going that's tough and you You go, well, how tough is it?

29:37And then you run a marathon, you go, my God, you can't really explain what it is. Or try and explain to someone what an apple tastes like. Unless you try an apple, you don't know what an apple tastes like. And so until you experience what motherhood is like, and especially the pregnancy and afterwards and all these different things, it's a lot.

29:51Michelle Kennedy: It's such an alien feeling. And I don't mean it. It's just something that you can't even put into words about what's happening. So many things are changing. You can't control what's changing. You can't control your reaction to what's changing. and some of it is the superficial and that's also hard by the way and some of it's just not being able to go at the speed that you used to go at and that's a weird feeling and you feel a bit I started to feel a bit like irritable like what no come on let's do it let's get back into it so there's so much going on and you have got that narrative of I'm the luckiest woman in the world and you know which you are but when certainly for me when finn arrived i looked at him and he was beautiful and i thought what what happens now i don't i hadn't thought about that part truly i didn't have any thought about what to do then and i remember i i so remember not wanting to leave the house i so remember it because finn would cry and then if he cried people would think that i'm not a good mom and you had this idea you need to be you had to be an expert at everything to be good girl and get it right wow that is I didn't even think about that if you your whole life has succeeded and got the grades and done good and been this and been that yeah and then when you have control over another human being that you can't control their emotions and can't control you feel like you're failing repeatedly didn't have the birth that I thought I was going to have feeding wasn't as easy as I thought it was going to be.

31:25Michelle Kennedy: He cried. Yeah, Michelle, because babies cry a lot. And it's their way of telling you everything that they can tell you. But I was - Do you realize now that's so much pressure on yourself? Oh my gosh. It was horrendous. Honestly, I was very, very, very, you know, not to glorify this, but I was very, very slim after I had Finn because I could hardly eat because the worry was so extreme so when I went back to work I it was honestly it was like trying to get back in touch with me because I didn't I totally lost who I was in all of this it was really hard it was really difficult oh my god Michelle so that was the emotional side of it no but also I know um I know with you you're you're you're sort of giving a glimpse into what it was like but you're not showing the whole picture so I imagine it's worse than you're even sort of betraying you're saying it was really tough I imagine it was in almost unbearable I didn't sleep there were nights when even when he finally did sleep I just couldn't because I was so fraught with anxiety about what time he would wake up like I was obsessed by it why because I don't know just because I I felt like surely now we have to have a routine.

32:41Michelle Kennedy: Now he has to wake up at this time because then I have to get this done. And, you know, my obsession with how the day was going to look became all consuming. And truly for me, it wasn't until I went back to work to have something else to control and obsess over that I started to breathe and be a normal, normal, a better mom and enjoy motherhood. Were you honest with how you were feeling to other people? I don't think it was, we're better now. It wasn't a thing to talk about. But I don't think at the time you could really say, I need to go back to work to get a sense of myself again. I think people would have been like, you're a monster.

33:19Michelle Kennedy: What is wrong with you? You've got a perfect baby, enjoy it. I need to go back to work to feel normal again. To feel normal again. But you're a mum, that's what you're meant to do. You're meant to be like, no. You've got everything. And I had everything. I spoke to a great friend of mine who also just had a baby and she left her job for a bit and she was she's very honest and she said the first month was just horrendous and not just scary because lots of people have different experiences some people have amazing experiences some people don't want kids some people haven't and she didn't have a great experience and she said during that month if I had a button that I could have pressed to reset everything I would have reset I would back.

34:03All of this new life, suddenly with kids, and I was just like, I don't know, I want my old life back. And I think that's quite a scary thing to have to deal with quite alone.

34:12Michelle Kennedy: Alone, because how dare you say it? And also, is it normal? I truly did wonder. Is it normal to say this? What's going on? I thought I was a monster. I was like, there is something wrong with me, because why am I even thinking these things? I'm a disgrace. Like, what? And so you go through all of this and then you start to come out the other side because you've gone back to work and you're like oh no I remember I can control this bit and then you start to love this like gorgeous messy chaotic unstructured part of your life I couldn't I'm obsessed with my son you know I just love him so much and so that all became much like a relief but then I still wanted other women in my life because I wanted to ask them what they were thinking I was thinking about leaving and starting my own business.

35:00Michelle Kennedy: I wanted to talk to other women about it who like, what did they think? Did they have this moment? Or, um, he was doing different things. Like I need to think about nursery or, you know, what were they doing? And I just needed to be with other women who were tracking at the same time as me. So the idea that I'd had about, can we connect women came throughout, but the moment was actually him going to nursery. And I was like, change for him, change for me. I'm doing it and what's interesting is the way i said before is that you you don't want people to think it was an instant thing it's this gradual process and what you're so right you you have the strong powerful mum yeah who is you go and go and do you you can achieve anything so you're like brilliant i'm gonna go and be a lawyer because that's what i'm gonna do you become a lawyer you achieve that so you're then professionally you're respected you go to badoo and you start this in this this sort of dating website you see these coders you understand coding and you see things and then but but also it's about community and it's building a community.

35:59And then you move on to Bumble, which is women. And so it's women bringing women together to be able to date in a safe space and community. And then your progression of that is towards Peanut, which is a community for women who are feeling lonely or have questions. Have questions or whatever it is.

36:15Michelle Kennedy: Want to say, is it normal? Want to say, can I backtrack? Did I make a mistake? They want to say all of the things in a place where I hope that you are on Instagram leading your edited highlights. I hope that's your real life. But I just needed the space where I could also really have the real life. So you've built Peanut. And how many users do you have now? Five million. Now that's sinking. It's good, isn't it? That's very, very good. It's really good. It's pretty cool. Five million women. That's really cool. And I love them. And thank you, five million women, for choosing Peanut. That's cool.

36:53Do you remember, you won't remember your first customers ever?

36:57Michelle Kennedy: I remember the first day that we launched Peanut. I remember that. And 20 ,000 women downloaded the app in three hours. I remember that. And I sent a screenshot to one of my investors. And I was like, dude, look at this. It was like on a really old fashioned dashboard. And he was like, wow. and that was almost like my because imagine all those people who told me that women didn't need their own app and like you know they weren't lonely or they didn't and 20 000 women told us yeah we do wow that was cool that was your chip being filled a little bit that was the chip yeah exactly so what makes you get up every single day and keep going with peanut the the truth is I absolutely am like the it's the biggest honor of my life to build this product and I really mean that like how amazing I get to go in every day and the world is a tiny bit better than I found it and that that for me is like the biggest honor of my entire life and I did a talk last week and there was a woman who was sat on the front row and um she put her hand up at the end she said it's not a question it's just to tell you I've been trying to have a baby for eight years I thought right and she said and I went on to peanut and I met three girls who were also trying to conceive and three years ago I had a baby and I'm quite sure that I wouldn't have got as far as I did let alone get pregnant if it wasn't for peanut and you changed my life and she started crying I started crying the girl who's interviewing me started crying we're all crying and um that's why I don't.

38:42Michelle Kennedy: That's amazing. You know, the reason why I started this podcast is because I felt like we're living in a world where we're disconnected. And actually, I want to bring connection back together. And what Peanut does is bring that community and connection back. And I think that's so important in our current climate. We need to connect. And we've forgotten that art of connection. We think that having a text or this or that is connection. It's totally not. And that's why there's this loneliness crisis, because people aren't connecting. It is an epidemic. And it is really, really difficult to say as an adult, I'm lonely, right?

39:15Michelle Kennedy: Because as an adult, you're meant to have it all figured out. You shouldn't be lonely. But actually, we are increasingly lonely. We don't live in the way that we used to live. We don't live next door to our mom around the corner from our sister, whatever it might be. We live way more isolated lives. And this little thing, that that's not connection that that is that is almost communication but it's not a connection those devices are killing us it's not the way to do it so if if we can do one thing which is make sure that you use that in order to do this I've won it's all all I need is to know that you're gonna meet in real life it's not a replacement for that is that why you've written your book Yeah, the book is, it's a really a curation of all the stories.

40:08Michelle Kennedy: I get to hear these amazing stories all the time about things that women are talking about. I'm like the nicest perv you'll ever meet. So I'm like, is that the right way to say it? But you know, I'm like watching Voyeur better, or is that worse? Anyway, yeah, yeah. I'm like watching all these like amazing stories or moments. And some of them are funny, and some of them are heartbreaking. And some of them are, you know, whatever they are. and I get to see them all. And so the book is curating all those stories because I want every woman to see her version of motherhood represented because I get to see them and you need to see them because if you only see one type of woman's story, like a woman, she's married and she's got, you know, a really engaged partner or whatever, and you're not in that situation, that's not your version of motherhood.

40:55Michelle Kennedy: You feel even more lonely. So this is about showing women in all different cultures or different scenarios you're doing it on your own whatever it is and it's that first year it's called it takes a village so me if i'm we if i'm going to read this or or a anyone's going to read this what are they going to get from it the book will give you a full first year so you can dip in and out you're in the you know sleepless nurse you're doing weaning whatever it might be you can dip in and out so it helps you navigate that first year through the eyes of other women here's what I did here's my story with an expert who will tell you exactly what's happening because we all need an expert to tell us totally and most importantly for me I can't read a book cover to cover I don't have time so you can dip in and out you can dip in and out there's an index whatever you're going through go to the right heaven that was an essential like I cannot make someone sit and read this cover to cover no you want to dip in and dip out unless you really want to obviously I want you to do that but if you can't you don't have to Do you think you're an addict to new ideas and new things and building and growing?

42:01Yes.

42:02Michelle Kennedy: I love it. Because I've been at a lunch with you and I thought I was pretty good at thinking of ideas and thinking of new things and coming up with new concepts and this and that. I mean, you trumped me. It's quite hard to turn off though, isn't it? Oh yeah, it's everything. It's like an addiction. Totally. Because you see, like every day I'm having ideas, 90 % are absolute turd. Like they're the worst ideas ever, right? And I know that. But occasionally there's something where I'm like, that is a good one. I know it's good. And it's just, you know, it's just something in your brain that keeps you excited every day.

42:36Michelle Kennedy: It keeps me, like, motivated. And there's so many more things that, you know, I want to do. And I just feel really, really lucky that I am in a position where I get to dream about what the ideas are for the next thing. Like, that's a gift. I had this big theory, right? when it comes to running a business is that I sort of truly believe that every founder or business leader should have therapy. And the reason why they should have therapy is because you become self-aware. And as a leader, you've got to be self-aware because you've actually got to realize what you're not good at. And that is the most important thing because we kind of know what we're good at.

43:12I know I'm quite creative. I know that I'm pretty smart on marketing. I know I've got my figure in the polls here. But what I'm not good at, I'm like, well, I'm pretty good. But first, when you first start, I'm like, I'm pretty good at everything. I can do it all. and then you quickly realize that you can't. So I think, you know, founders should have therapy in order to find that out. What advice would you give to someone who's starting out on their business right now? And the advice you'd say to them, okay, watch out for this, look out for this, maybe do that. What would it be?

43:36Michelle Kennedy: I think that actually, I mean, I hesitate to say it because it just sounds like I'm this lonely girl, but it is quite lonely when you start a business. And being the founder is quite lonely because there are certain things that only you know and only you can do and only you control. And, you know, it's that thing that like, if you cough, the whole company catches a cold. So you have to be really like aware of kind of what you're saying and what you're sharing and, um, your attitude and how you, um, behave and perform. And so that can be quite lonely. And so I think that actually the best advice is having someone who isn't in the business, who can share some of it with you.

44:20Michelle Kennedy: Might be a partner, might be a friend, might be someone you go and play paddle with. It doesn't matter what it is, but you do need to have that one person who is outside of what you do to kind of help support you. Because the perpetual lonely girl over here, it can be a bit isolating, those moments. That's great advice. I want everyone to go and get your book. I'm going to leave the link in the podcast description as well It takes a village And I can imagine we get it online and in bookstores Yes, all of that On Amazon and Waterstones and other And if someone is listening now And likes our conversation Go and download Peanut Please Do you know what?

45:04Michelle Kennedy: Go and do it If there's anything that's making you not do it Because you think that you don't need advice We all need advice If you're feeding at 2am go and there's some great stories on there you'll just love that anyway you can track your pregnancy you can track your toddler growing up you can see like what they're meant to be doing if you don't want to do the other stuff but if you can send the one message wave at one person having one friend will change it and it's an amazing community thank you michelle thank you we'd like to end the conversation with eight questions are you ready it's quick fire i'm ready you've heard me i talk too much for quick further.

45:43Michelle Kennedy: No, you don't. You're so good. What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up? Why not you? You can do it. Why not you? That's great. Yeah. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? Nice eyelashes. Packsuit. What scares you most about yourself? My obsession. What's something you can't let go of? My desire to win. Love that. What's your guilty pleasure? Eating in bed. Everyone thinks it's disgusting. I don't care. I get my wine. I get my snacks. I get into bed on a Friday night. Don't talk to me. Don't at me. I love it. I watch bad TV. I love that. I'm a slob. I love that. And I love it.

46:23Love that. What do you like most about yourself?

46:27Michelle Kennedy: I love to laugh. So I can be like anything can set me off laughing. Humour. I'll go for it. And bonus one, your favourite swear word. Fuck. Fuck yeah. Michelle Kennedy, thank you so much. You're amazing. Love you. That was amazing. Was it all right? Oh, my God. Oh,

46:53my God.

46:53Michelle Kennedy: Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. Hello guys, it's Jamie and Sophie from the Newly Parents podcast here. Coming up on this week's episode. I remember almost breaking my ass.

47:31I was rollerblading. the road ripped my ass cheeks off.

47:37Michelle Kennedy: Why did it grip so much to the ground and how big was your bum at nine? It was honestly like one cheek got super glued to the ground and the other one was on ice. Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.