MOSES ITAUMA: I’m the Future Heavyweight Champion. This is How I’ll Do It

0:00It was inevitable for me to be successful. When did you feel that? I knew when I was a kid, I can't work this hard and not be successful. That mentality, Moses, man. Overnight success doesn't just happen overnight. You're 12, 13, 14 years old. You haven't experienced that yet. Most kids just go, well, I'm just going to give up. And I did that at one point. Moses Itauma, I'm in great company. Your winner, Moses Itauma. Your professional career is 13 wins, 11 knockouts. You're top of your game at the moment, man. Amateur boxing is a sport. Professional boxing is a fight. Walking out into the ring for that big fight, do you feel nervous?

0:38I told him to take his glasses off because I wanted to see his eyes. I said, I want to see if it's a wolf or a sheep. What did you see? He knows what I saw. If you were going to call out someone, who would it be? Do you think you'd beat him? Silly question. How important is family to you? It's big. There was nine of us in a two-bedroom house. There was rats, there was this, there was that. I was a two-time national champion, two-time European gold medalist in the world, and still ain't got a single penny from boxing. I've had two mild concussions, and I had one severe one as well. Do you worry about that?

1:09It's one of my biggest fears. I was so proud of my oldest family, can't remember your name. I stopped boxing for like seven, eight months. Who'd you sound quitting to? My brother, he saw me with the wrong crowd. He was like, oh, you know that them people ain't going to get you nowhere. I said, they ain't got no money. And then he just said... Whoa. That was actually one of the main reasons why I kept going. Brought to you by Apple Card. Hey, you could be earning 2 % daily cash back on that purchase. And that one. And even that one. That's because Apple Card users earn 2 % daily cash back on every purchase, including everyday items you buy online or in-store when using their Apple Card with Apple Pay.

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3:30Guys, welcome back to another episode of Great Company. I cannot tell you how excited I am for this episode. You don't need to be a boxing fan to be a huge admirer of this story today. It's Moses Atama. He is the upcoming British superstar heavyweight boxer. He's currently 13-0, 13 wins, zero losses. He's had 11 knockouts. This guy is a new breed of boxer. Frank Warren, his manager, has come out and said he's going to be fighting, hopefully this year, for a heavyweight championship. So you know the likes of Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali, Antje Joshua, those big names that have come through heavyweight.

4:12This is the new name. He's British and he's phenomenal. Um, we chat about boxing. We also chat about Moses's life and now he's had a hard life. Lots of different reasons. He's big on family. He's big on loyalty. And we find out all about that. Trust me, this episode is going to knock you out. Okay. Excuse the pun. So get ready for that. Now, before we start, I want to say one quick thing. Okay. If you can click that follow button, that follow button does so many wonders for us. Keeps allowing us to make the show better. It keeps allowing us to get better guests and keeps making you come back each week because we want to keep making it better and better and better for you.

4:48So if you can click that follow button, it takes one second. It's completely for free. I'll thank you forever. All right, here we go. Enjoy this episode of Great Company with Moses Itama. When you go into the ring, what does your mom think? Does she get worried? Or your dad? No, my dad actually says I waste time. He went to me. I was after one of my fights. he was like you waste time I was like I was like dad what do you mean he was like if you can do it in 10 seconds don't do it in 10 seconds don't be wasting time you are wasting time I was just like alright dad it doesn't sound like he's worried

5:30your professional career is 13 wins 11 knockouts and 8 of those fights I've won in the first round. I believe that's correct, yeah. I don't know. So how many, do you know how many minutes that you've spent in the ring professionally fighting? I'm going to take a guess of one hour. 60 minutes, yeah. Just under 60 minutes, according to Google. That's how much long you spend in the ring professionally having like... I mean, I'm still at the beginning of my career, so it's not a mad thing to say. if I was like a world champion been there done that X, Y, Z then maybe yeah but like I'm still I'm still kind of I'm in the middle stages of my career actually not the beginning I'm in the middle stages It's crazy times right?

6:19I know you know when you see it from an outside perspective it's like it seems so great and what not it's like see with me and obviously my family they see that I've been boxing since I was 9 years old and how much I've sacrificed and dedicated to this so it don't really it doesn't it doesn't seem like a crazy thing to me and my family, if that makes sense. Totally, man. I think that's the big thing about success, right? Which I always find is that most people see the finished product, right? So they see, I know Usain Bolt win the hundred meters. They see David Beckham score the free kick. They see, I know Tom Brady throw the touchdown, right?

6:56And they think, God, I want to do that. That's what I want to get to. People mostly don't realize the sacrifice, same building a business, the sacrifice and the graft that goes in. People don't see that. Of course, I think, I don't know if this is a quote or not, and it might be a quote, I might have said it incorrectly, but it's like, it takes five years to become an overnight success. Overnight success doesn't just happen overnight. There's like a whole sort of... Backstory to it. Backstory to it, exactly. When was it, the first time you walked into a gym, nine years old, where was it and why did you do it?

7:31So my brother, Carol, he was in a classroom. with like four or five boxers or two, three boxers. But the whole school had that four or five boxes at the time. And they kept talking about boxing. My brother wanted to get into the chat, in the boxing chat. They said, why don't you join the gym? My brother joined the gym, became a national champion. And then like a year later, told me that, listen, you ain't doing nothing. So why don't you join the gym as well? So I did. And then like, I just remember like the first couple of sessions, I was sick. I threw up. This is nine years old. Yeah, I was getting battered.

8:10So I was just like, you know what, maybe this boxing thing's not for me. And then I started playing football and I got really... I didn't like it being a team sport. I like it, the fact that if I lose or if I win, I want it to be my fault. Like in football, you could be the hardest working player on the team and still lose because of your teammates. So I was just like, I said, let me just try out boxing again. and then it was like a love-hate relationship since. But talk me through that because that's interesting. I never really thought of it that way. When you're in a team sport, yeah, you can be the best, but you can still lose.

8:46Is it because you like being in control of the result? Exactly. So even like in boxing, like, you know, after a loss, like so many fighters blame their trainers. You're in the driver's seat. You employ your trainers. so if you've lost then that's it's your fault you should have changed the trainers and that's like you don't a lot of people say if it ain't broke don't fix it but my like counteract to that is don't wait for it to break to fix it so if you know that there's an ongoing problem and you're not mentioning it and you're just gonna wait till it breaks to fix it then obviously when it breaks then obviously don't don't complain about the consequences give me an example of that whenever whenever you're in your life you realize that something wasn't working and you're like right well this needs to change because you're right most people in life don't do that they wait till something happens they wait till it breaks to change it yeah so so i don't want to i don't i don't want to come out and like be disrespectful or anything but there was there was like a there was like a time where because i was with my amateur trainers for like from the ages of nine to 18 and um and it's just like amateurs and professionals are just it's just two completely different sports like i would say i would say amateur boxing is a sport professional boxing is a fight so it's like in amateur boxing you're not really you're you're you're like point scoring you're trying to win and trying to win uh when the judge is over whereas like and you got you got you got three minutes to um you got nine minutes to win a fight whereas like in professional boxing it's like you've got 36 minutes to like knock the man unconscious do you know what I mean or like punch him up till he stops so it's two completely different sports and like it's just like when I turn professional like I just I'm still trying to box as a professional with my amateur style and it just it doesn't work because you can't you can't sprint a marathon no so you have to change everything exactly Exactly.

10:56So, and obviously I, but I did stay, I stayed with them for like a year, obviously knowing, like, knowing this on my mind. And I was like, I don't, I don't want for me to break before I fix it. So I was like, let me fix it before it breaks. And then obviously I moved to the Ben Davidson Performance Center. And, and yeah, I mean, I've been doing all right. You've been doing more than all right. Your family moved from Slovakia. You arrived in the UK, lived in Kent, three years old. I believe that's correct. I don't, I've never actually asked my mum or dad when we specifically moved back. I'm just kind of guessing dates from how old I was in pictures.

11:40But what are your parents like? Because they must instill like something within you, right? So my mother, she's a tough Eastern European woman with a very old school mentality. what do you mean by that I don't know what I'm allowed to say but she's like just think you know like she has like I don't want to be disrespectful to my mum now man not at all can you like imagine yeah yeah like I don't want to like paint the wrong picture in your head but like you know you ever watch the film Rocky yeah and then you got like the eye of Andrago yeah like imagine like my mum coming from that type of family, if that makes sense.

12:25So she's tough? Yeah. Okay. And my father is a very, very, very proud Nigerian. Really? Very proud Nigerian. So when you have parents like that, do you find there's a lot of, in a good way, a lot of pressure to kind of succeed in something, right? To be, to do good, to be a good person, to represent your family in a good way? Of course. Like, I'm, you know, even like the mistakes that me and my family have made like we kind of like wear them even like my like my mother she's done like she sacrificed a lot for us to be in this position that was actually one of the main reasons why I kept going in boxing my mother sacrificed a lot she was very tough and what things did she sacrifice?

13:11I mean like moving like a few lot saw that the house that my mom grew up in in the villages of Slovakia acres and acres and acres of land. Obviously, like, my mother's side of her family, it wasn't that rich compared to, like, the princess or whatnot, but they had, like, a good life. And then she left Slovakia to, if anybody knows Kent, Luton Road. We moved to Luton Road, and there was, like, I believe it was my uncle, auntie my two cousins mum, dad me, Carol Samuel there was nine of us in a two bedroom house wow so where did everyone sleep? I don't remember I was a kid I've never actually sat down and asked like asked you never asked questions I've never asked the questions but like obviously my mum was saying that there was like there was rats there was like there was this there was that there was a hole in the ceiling.

14:19And it's just my mum, and she'd done all this because of like an upbringing that we had in Slovakia. Obviously, we was like one of the, me and my two brothers, we were like the only people of colour or some sort of colour in the whole of Slovakia. And like, I never went to school there, but my two brothers they went to school and what was the kind of like turning point was like how my brother got treated in school so my mum was like ain't really gonna have much of a future here so my mum was like so my dad was like let's pack our stuff and go to England It's mad to think that a family have to move because of racism You're talking obviously 2005 2006 where like I don't wanna say And I don't want to overstep or say anything that I don't know too much about.

15:17But I think there was a slight bit of racism everywhere. Do you know what I mean? No matter, only in Slovakia. I think if you came here, there was going to be, if you came to the UK, there was going to be some sort of discrimination to a particular group. Do you, then growing up, did you experience racism? Not that I can remember. Not that I can remember. And that's why me and my family, we moved to England because of like, there is so many different cultures here like in slovakia that's not it it's just you're just slovak or you're not i mean they don't i'm not even i'm not even too sure slovak like their own people um well that's slovaks are like very like known to just like not like outsiders yeah and obviously my mom's okay but like everybody else is kind of like visibly you can tell that we're not we're not from or we've got other backgrounds are you proud of your heritage yeah of course I think that's quite fun that's interesting though right because of course because like the like you are the product of your past experiences and it's only like obviously I came I was in Nigeria last week and like when I was when I was just in when I was in Lagos I was just like I was thinking like I just had like a weird feeling where even though I haven't I've been to Lagos in 2010 but apart from that like um I haven't been there I felt I felt like it was a little bit like on my home oh you felt it when you were there yeah and it's like it's weird because it's weird when you get to a place and you go like this feels like home but you you have never been obviously I haven't been there for over 15 years so I was just like and then even like speaking to the people I just felt like yeah these are like these are like my people but like even like when I was in Slovakia I never really had that and I spoke to my mum about this and she was like yeah you ain't gonna find happier people than in Nigeria really yeah and because obviously my mum has been when she was younger with obviously my father yeah and she was like she was like yeah you're not gonna find any more happier people than people in Nigeria and I was like mum it felt weird because I went out and I felt like like I was at home and she was like well that is your home that's where your dad's from And I was just like, I'm a bit annoyed that obviously I know so much about my Slovak background, but I didn't know so much about obviously my Nigerian background because we haven't been there for so long.

17:47I said, why is there like such a difference in how I'm trapped in Nigeria than Slovakia? And she was like, Riko, obviously a family named Rico. You can't compare 200 million to 5 million. I said, mom, that's not what I'm talking about. I said Nigeria are the king of like boxing or king of athletics king of like if you look back at people's heritage king of like king of music the king of sports I haven't thought of it like that is isn't it exactly because there's a lot of boxers that for example you got Anthony Joshua Daniel Dubois Joe Joyce me Okoli Reactpour Deontay Wilder these are all of Nigeria descent obviously they say they're British they say they're American but these are all of Nigerian descent and it's like if you look back in people's history like they would have some sort of um what some sort exactly and like I've never thought top of the game as well in music as well exactly exactly so um and I was like when I went to Nigeria they they treated me like like crazy just the love that I got there was crazy as soon as you got off the plane exactly as soon as I got off the plane the security guards they I had I had my belts with me and they was like are these your belts and I said yeah and then they was like are you Nigerian I said my father was like we're proud of you and I was like you don't even know my story they don't even they didn't even ask no questions they didn't even say none of my fights none of my interviews they don't know how I speak or nothing they just said you're doing well you're Nigerian we're proud of you whereas like I've been repping Slovakia since I came out.

19:32And like, ain't nobody shook my hand or nothing. Do you know what I mean? So, I was just like, yeah, this is like the contrast of people. Exactly. Contrast of. Yeah. Why is that? I don't know. I think everybody just gets on with their life in Slovakia. Everyone's just individual. They're just focusing on what they're doing. Literally. Literally. And like, I don't think they care about sports and athletes and their music on. So what do they care about? I have no idea. Family, innit? They have a big importance of family. The big thing about boxing is trash talking. You don't seem to do that that much.

20:12The reason why I don't trash talk is because some people are in boxing to sell tickets. Selling tickets obviously requires entertainment. Entertainment sometimes means trash talking and being somebody that you probably wouldn't be if the cameras were off. I mean, don't get me wrong. A lot of boxers just talk smack for the sake of talking smack. Because it sells a fight? Even an off camera. Because it sells a fight? No, it's because boxers are egotistical narcissists. Because you have to. You have to be. You have to be a psychopath. You can't go into a boxing ring thinking that this man's better than me.

20:52so boxers naturally have some sort of ego do you have an ego? everybody has an ego I don't know if I have an ego I really don't everybody has an ego egos are good egos are good so people are just in it to sell tickets and some people might they might you know there might be like a person yeah that's like a level 5 scumbag but once the cameras are on he's a level 10 scumbag because he sells tickets do you get what I mean? but Um, so me personally, I haven't been in boxing to sell tickets. I haven't been in boxing to beat entertainment. I've done boxing because I needed to do boxing. I've done boxing because, um, if without boxing, I feel lost.

21:37You know what I mean? So even when I'm, even, even when I'm going abroad yet, I'm always checking. If I'm staying in a hotel, it needs a hotel with a gym in it. You know what I mean? Because you need to have that. Exactly. I need that constant touch of reality. I heard that your, you know, your inspiration is kind of Prince Nassim, right? He wasn't my inspiration. He's one of the first boxers I ever watched and introduced me. Fine. But just because I like his style doesn't mean I need to be like him. Yeah, because what I see with you and I see with your interviews before, it's like, how do I put this?

22:06It's like you'll barely do business. It's like a killer mentality in a good way. It's like sitting across from you. The way that I look is when I used to watch Tyson fight, right? he didn't even want to do this he just had this intimidation over his opponents opponents were there was a fear to fight him and I see that within you like I can even sitting across here I know if you suddenly turned on me I feel like okay I'm in trouble here right but you have that mentality which is like it's like laser focused in do you know what a bit of credit needs to go to my brother the reason why I say that the reason why I say that is because sometimes yeah like I might be out or I might be doing something yeah some somebody might pubs or somebody might be doing something where for me I'm like I'm like I need to like switch this guy's lights off or like I need to let him know that like to get what I mean but then like he said that like being a boxer just comes with a natural like intimidation and I've been able to like people seeing me knock someone out yeah it comes with a natural intimidation so it's like you don't really need to have to be able to prove the point.

23:17And that's the same with Mike Tyson. I believe he's got the most knockouts in three rounds or something like that. Maybe. Most knockouts inside three rounds. You don't need to go around intimidating people because he knows that, do you know what I mean? I'm going to switch your lights off if you do. You know, unless obviously we're sitting down, we're having a podcast. So I'm kind of forced to speak. Like you can't. Wait, you don't want to just be here because. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So let's say if there's a group of people and I don't have to speak, I don't speak. The reason why I say that is because you don't learn nothing from talking.

23:52I'm always trying to be listening and trying to gain or see the knowledge of what people are saying.

24:02Because real gangsters don't fight. You know what I mean? So I'm not trying to play something I'm not. So even like Dillian White, for example, when we came into the Face Off, I told him to take his glasses off because I wanted to see his eyes. And he said, oh, you're a woman. Are you trying to see my eyes? I said, I want to see if it's a wolf or a sheep. Because he kept saying, obviously, he's a wolf and whatnot. What did you see? I think me and him both kind of left the interaction knowing that he knows what I saw. So that's why it kind of, when we kind of went above separate ways, I went to my brother, I was like, I don't think, I don't think like, listen, he might be on smoke or whatnot outside, but maybe in this scenario where boxing, where it's my expertise, I'm like, he ain't saying who he says he is.

25:04and that's why and that's why like I kind of that's why I asked him to take his glasses off because you know a lot of people have the glasses on because they hide behind the glasses and that's why like me unless I'm in Nigeria because it's part of the look do you know what I mean you let people see your eyes I let them see my eyes because I mean I don't hide nothing I don't try to play or be a role that I'm not do you think you can win or lose a fight pre-fight yeah of course like I said like I said with Dylan White I thought I won the fight before I won so it's even the fact that when I when I look when I end up face off I just I saw something that I haven't seen in a lot of people's eyes it might have been because he's tired he's drained the heat or what not but like all these factors would have cost the fight anyway but it's just like it was just interesting to see in his eyes yeah and like that's why I don't go into face off trying to intimidate someone I go into face off trying to see or like trying to see what's in your eyes.

26:05Do you know what I mean? But that's an almost intimidating, without meaning to be intimidating. I'd be like, oh God, I don't want to look. For someone who doesn't know what training camp is like, talk us through a training camp. So training camp can span, depends on the fight, depends on how active you are. It can span from eight weeks to 12 weeks to sometimes 16 weeks. So if you're an active fighter, it might be just like eight weeks, you'll do two weeks of just kind of getting into that base fitness and then and then from six weeks out you start grasping the tactics of whatever fighter you're going to fight and you're basically making the tactics so you know if you're fighting someone tall or small or heavy hit you're basically working the tactics out to know how to fight that person exactly so getting engaged off the tactics and it'll be our track Well, every fight trains differently.

27:03But I train from Monday to Saturday. I train twice a day. Apart from Saturday, I train once. It's tiring? Oh, very. Very tiring. You know what people don't understand as well? You know one of the hardest things about boxing is doing a sport while you're injured. Because the aim of boxing is to injure the other person. So obviously, I might pick up an injury six weeks out. and you just still go through it and you still have to go through it you just have to just have to obviously maximize your recovery and whatnot but you still have to go through it so that's why when people are like oh I didn't I didn't get no damage in the Dillion White fight I'm good to go again but you just don't see wow they don't see what's happening they don't see the the train like you think even like people cause even the joke is like oh make your fights last a little bit longer haha but like I get annoyed when my fights go one round because then why do you make it one ref?

28:02I don't mate you know what it's just you don't you don't play with something like boxing yeah agreed it's like I don't want to like let Dillian White off the leash and then like too late I'm the one laid up the floor you know what I mean so when the fight with Dillian White got stopped yeah like I just I went like that yeah because I wanted the referee to like let it go on because like I've been in training camp for 14 weeks I ain't been in training camp for 14 weeks for 2 minutes do you know what I mean like it's a It's a bit disappointing, but, you know. Do you get, do you get, so you do the training camp, and look, Dillian White is, was meant to be your biggest fight yet.

28:40And I think for, for not, for not your, your ride or dies like me, but like for the outer world, that's when people started to go like, who is this Moses Thomas? Who is this? Like, that's when I think you went into the wider world of people noticing you. Training for something like that, walking out into the ring for that big fight. Do you feel nervous? I did, but I'm not going to tell you why. I feel nervous. Why? I might tell you off camera, but I ain't going to tell you off camera. Hinder to me. No, I'd done something that I don't ever do before my fights. Whoa. And I was nervous. Because your routine hadn't gone the same?

29:18It's not even a routine. It's just the fact that I was like, I ain't done this ever. I was like, how's this going to affect me? And then, yeah. So you were nervous for that? And then you had to stay in the ring for a while. Yeah, but I don't mind that. Do you know what the fact is? Because Dylan White basically didn't come out for a while. Do you know what the fact is? You know what confidence is? Confidence is preparation. So I remember Ralph. He was like, he kind of, he's like the organizer sort of thing. He went to me. He said, Moses, like, you're the most chilled out person I've ever seen fight week.

29:55And I said, Ralph, that's because I've just done everything I possibly could this camp to win this fight. Like, if I don't go in there and win this fight, it's not my fault. It's just like, I mean, it is my fault, but it's not my control. I've done anything I could, I've done everything I possibly could to win this fight. So if I go in there and I don't win, God didn't want me to win. Like, I recovered, I trained. Like, everything was the best, tip top. So I was like, if I go in and I don't win, God didn't want me to win. Who's been your hardest competitor yet? None of them were, like, extremely tough.

30:28probably my fight with this kid called Alois Jr. who I train alongside him now. We both train with Ben Davison. It was probably my hardest fight. After that fight, I was in concussion. I was just like, this guy hit so hard. Probably Alois. Alois has been my hardest fight, but by far, like, the hardest training camp I've had was with Ferdinand White. Really? That was just tough. That was tough. Yeah, but you had to prepare, right? That was tough. And you know what makes it even worse? My trainer, he has this thing where it's like, he needs to see me do the rounds. We were sparring so many 10 rounders.

31:10It was a joke.

31:16Normally in boxing, you might ever do that. Let's say you're fighting 12 rounds. You might only ever spar 12 rounds once or twice, just because you only need to see if you can do it or not we don't actually need to do it but like he makes it but for dillian white we were sparring 10 rounds 10 rounds 10 rounds 10 rounds and like it was just tiring because i had the hand injury got a groin injury um got the hamstring injury got the bicep injury obviously i can't i can't can't be punching properly i obviously had my head's hurting i've got to spar 10 rounds energy's low because i had done i had to do a high intensity interval training the night before it's just so many factors and I was just like I said when I went with the Dylan White fight I just kind of knew what was going to happen because I just trained so hard for it the the big thing in boxing right do you know what I used to even do what I used to wake up and I used to I used to get my chair and I used to sit outside and eat my porridge in the sun just because I thought the vitamin D would help me with my boxing that 1 % just that 1 % man just that 1 % I'm big on the 1 % every single time.

32:23I say this to my team the whole time. Any 1 % we can do better. Whatever that is. Sitting outside getting vitamin D. Whatever it is. Making sure that you have a pillow that's different. It's my brother who mentioned to me as well. This is one thing that stuck with me as well. You know like if me and you we're looking straight and let's say you turn something just 3 degrees that way. It's not a lot. If you go down the road you're going to see a big difference. is going to be like a kilometer or two kilometer. Whereas like that was just a three degree turn for you. And that is exactly like in life, like it's the 1 % like it might be like, okay, this is a champion.

33:06And then like down the road, it's like a kilometer ahead. And it's like not a champion. Can be even less than that, right? And you just need to turn just a little bit.

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34:51how important is family to you it's big it's big and other and it's not until i kind of turned professional kind of been in the limelight and whatnot it's like people because people said i've changed but it's not that i've changed it's just oh well i have changed it's just the the substance of the relationship has become more clear okay break this down for me why are people saying you've changed so like for example you've got you've got a couple friends that you kind of talk to but it's not like it's not your main priority agreed when you when your time and energy is very limited them sort of friends just kind of fade off and they just become just people as you become a memory and then those people that um the relationships you do have substance with become more become more kind of in your face does that make sense or more clear Makes total sense What you're saying is this And that's why family Becomes important Exactly Because In the nicest way Family Is constant It's always there It's our blood right So you don't have to Have that constant connection Back and forward All the time To keep it They always say that like Friends are like gardens You have to water them To make them grow And with friends You have to constantly water them Hey how are you What's going on And you don't have time To constantly do that I don't think that's true Oh you don't I don't think that's true.

36:18Nah. I've got this one friend here, Gids. He's a funny guy. Honestly, I might not speak to him for like six months, seven months. And then he might call me and answer the phone and then like effing and blinding and swearing. But not in a bad way, but he'll be like, what's happening, you twat? And I'm like, what's going on? And then he'll be like, oh, you're around later. I'm like, yeah, let's go do something. I'm like, all right, cool. so it doesn't even change but nothing changes because he doesn't expect anything it doesn't expect and it's like we would literally like it was even one at one point I hadn't even spoke to him for like a year and then I called him I was like what are you doing he was like I'm in Cyprus he was like why don't you come out I literally booked my first flight to Cyprus do you know what I mean and then like we went out there do you know what I mean and then I was literally saying to him I was like in a measure I ain't spoke to you for a year and then like our first interaction I booked my first flight do you know what I mean?

37:15You've got his brothers. Of course. But even like, for example, it was not too long ago, he kept calling me and this was in training camp for Dillian White. He kept calling me but I was very busy. If I wasn't training, I was like traveling to go to recovery places where I was doing interviews and he kept calling me, kept calling me, kept calling me and I kept like, not answering because I was busy. Don't have time. And then obviously, one time on the way home, I was like, I called him and I wasn't, I wasn't using my phone while driving. just making sure that everyone knows this yeah yeah yeah I connected sounds like you were but making sure you were being driven we got it I was being driven there you go it's probably a better way to pitch it and he went and I was just he went to me he was like why is it every time I call you you're always busy and I said bruv like this is going on he was like no no no I like it if I kept calling you and you kept answering the phone I'd be like why is this guy not doing something he's in training camp for Dillian White and I'm like and I'm calling him every time I call him he answers the phone I'm like do you know what it is that's a true friend it's so difficult trying to take what he said and trying to put it into no what he's saying is this what he's saying what he's saying which is that is a true friend he's saying I like the fact that you're not picking up my call because if you're picking up my call you're not doing what you should be doing which is training for the fight exactly That is a true friend What's his name?

38:47Gids He's actually a boxer himself Is he? Yeah When I I entered the phone I entered the phone I was just I was like I was just driving I was thinking I was like You know what? I said It made me like Look at all my other relationships Different That I have with people In what way? Just made me feel like Them people that are like Oh you've changed because you don't speak to me and X, Y, Z and I'm starting to question the reason why they actually speak to me now. Do you feel because you've become more successful your friends expect more from you? A lot of my friends that I don't really have that much substance they kind of just faded away and like the people that I just left I don't even consider them as friends do you know what I mean?

39:37And does that did that upset you to begin with? Nah Or is it just life? nah it's do you know what the train's gotta keep moving that's the the train's gotta keep moving that mentality Moses man the train's gotta keep moving so wherever because I don't know why I've had this like kind of this theory in life ever since I was a kid that like I was always I was it was inevitable for me to be successful so it's like wherever wherever I was with my friends or I wasn't with my friends the path to success is still going to be. So it's like, whether I've lost a friend or whether I've gained a friend, I don't think too much of it because like I said, the train's got to keep moving.

40:18That's really interesting. When did you feel that? Do you remember the moment? It wasn't, it's not one specific moment. It's just like, I knew when I was a kid that like, I can't work this hard and not be successful. Like, I can't be like, training before school, after school, not going partying, not going to like nothing I can't have been doing all this and then not become successful I was just like I always it was always just kind of in my mind do you know what I used to watch I used to watch like like lifestyle videos I used to watch like like just Floyd Mayweather just spending that stupid amounts of money and that that just used to motivate me and it's only like until maybe like last year I kind of realised like I'm not doing this for money anymore obviously I want to get paid and I need to get paid sure but the money just it's like if you're doing it for the money now you've got your money it's no longer going to excite you so you're going to stop doing this thing that you need to do for me I kind of have to do boxing if I don't I feel I don't feel I don't feel good in myself that's an insane mindset because what you've nailed there is if your if your reason for something is money there's never going to be enough if your reason for something is because you like cars there's never gonna be enough cars you have to do it because it gives you that life that you need and a byproduct of it the boxing is yeah you get paid you pay for your team you pay for your family you pay for yourself whatever it is but that's not the reason you're doing something at the beginning it was sure of course at the beginning it was of course because that's exciting of course of course at the beginning it was it was just it just got to a point where and like I said the money is obviously a big factor I wouldn't be doing it for free but if he was to take the money outside of it I would still be hitting bags I might not be doing it as seriously as I am now but I'd still be doing some sort of training that is amazing so yeah but you know I can explain imagine you have a habit of doing something since you was 9 years old yeah it's going to be hard to get out of that habit isn't it 100 % so that's like me that my habit's kind of boxing it's going to be hard to get out of that habit of not being in the gym I want to get into your mindset right because okay, you're 12, 13, 14 years old.

42:41It's the time when we start going out, maybe messing around, chasing girls, whatever it is, having like a fun time. You're not doing that. You're in the gym, you're working hard, you wake up early, you're doing everything that your friends aren't doing. And that is what separates greatness from just being good. And good is the evil of great, right? So how do you, what is that mindset that you're going through at that age? Because for me, the tricky thing to understand is you haven't experienced that yet but you're thinking I am going to experience it because if I keep working hard I'm going to get there most kids just go well I'm just going to give up this is too hard for me and I did and I did at one point you know boxing unless you talk professional there's not a lot of money in it like when I'm hearing some of these contracts that these kids are getting for football at like 12, 13 years old I'm like this is crazy I was like in boxing and there was a point where I was I was a two-time national champion two-time European gold medalist and a world amateur champion I still ain't got a single penny from boxing not paid anything not paid nothing so then zero yeah zero so I was just like what am I doing this boxing thing for and by this point as well yeah at this point I've had two mild concussions and I had one severe one as well and like I ain't got to pay the single penny I'm damaging my body and I was like what am I doing this for so I did I stopped boxing for like a good 7-8 months what age are you?

44:11um I believe this was like when I was 16 or something like that or something on the line to that sorry no this was during COVID so whatever age I was during COVID okay I was two time national champion two time European gold medalist and then I just I just I stopped so I stopped boxing um because like I said I've had I've had concussions left right centre like I'm I'm a European medalist the next YZ and um you weren't getting anything bad nothing so I just said what am I doing this boxing thing for so who'd you say to who'd you say I'm quitting to oh this is a conversation that I had with my brother so um he saw me actually in the McDonald's with the wrong crowd and uh and then just like he left me to it because at this point me and my brother we wasn't living together and uh I remember he just left me to it and then he just he uh he messaged me after he was like oh you know like them people ain't gonna get you nowhere and uh I was like and then I just called him I was like oh what do you mean and then we just had a conversation and uh I just went oh but like boxing this boxing that I said they ain't got no money and this and blah blah blah and then he just said I'll tell you what for every kilometre you run I'll give you a pound so I was running like 10 12 15 Ks a day like getting this money off my brother and then it just like kind of brother went broke man that's amazing but I was fit and when I was like I was like I'm fit now so I might as well get in the gym so I got back in the gym and then that year or the next year the year after I won the youth Europeans I stopped them all in the first round I said I ain't never heard of this ever and then they said everybody was raving about me there's a new powerhouse in the UK and then boom I'm a European champion I'm just seeing all these famous people not famous people famous boxers following me XYZ people are messaging me when you want to turn pro then you just let me know and I'm like obviously I was 16, 17 I'm like I'm starting to get worried now because obviously I don't know who means or whose intentions of what.

46:36So obviously I'm a kid. I don't know nothing. And then things happen. Times went by. And I went to the world championships at 17. I won the world championships. And I just remember walking out from my last amateur fight. I was like, this doesn't excite me no more. So I was just like, it's time to make the change to professional. So then I took a professional after that. They always say the moment, the moment where you're about to give up is the moment that actually when you become successful. It kind of collides with the same thing in a way. Because the moment that you're about to give up is the moment that you've worked hard, you've had your concussion, you've done whatever, you've pushed hard and you're just like, why am I doing this?

47:16And just around the corner is something good's about to happen. And so that's when you have to just keep going. You have to keep pushing through those moments. Which is, it's amazing of your brother to do that. That's amazing. What makes you so good? every time I get answered this question yeah just give it to me real come on every time I get asked this question I actually I never have an answer I just never have an answer the reason why I say that is because like I don't see myself as like anything extraordinary because I've been doing it for so long and like it's not like do you know like you know is there ever any is there a time in your life where you're like you just might be looking at yourself in the mirror and you're like I need to get in shape yes a lot I have that a lot exactly most mornings but you don't it don't go from like you looking good to like overnight like I need to get in shape I get that it's a constant thing of just like small things that will get you to that position where then now you're like I need to get back in shape I totally get that and it is it's slowly by slowly by slowly it's a consistency 100 % and consistency and persistency is what creates success without a doubt hard work consistency Those are the things.

48:29Nothing else. But there must have been a raw talent there. Because when you're boxing in the gym and you're 15, you know. Oh, do you know what? I was reading Habits That Make a Champion. And in one of the things it said, you need to be present. And this isn't with just, this isn't with just, this isn't with just like boxing. This is just in life in general. that you're always going to be more successful or be better at something if you're more present. Like it's easier to have a conversation with somebody if they're present. If they're somewhere over there, it's going to be hard to have a conversation with them.

49:08So that's the same with boxing. Like I might be training, like let's say I'm a coach and I've got four fighters there and I want to coach all these four fighters. I'll coach them all the same way but they're all going to be in different skill levels some are present some are not and you can see that so I think my ability is because even like Ben Davison he said like I'm one of the best listeners in the gym so obviously how to now like obviously read that book thinking about it I think it's because I'm present a lot that's interesting because I noticed something in our interview I'm not even kidding when I say something to you like I say this is what I think or this is a quote or whatever normally the person who I'm chatting to would typically agree or they would oh yeah maybe that there's a few things that like I'm like yeah yeah yeah I like I've seen that with you and I've seen that with you where you you think you're thinking about it and you go maybe I don't think that oh no that is that you're you are you're listening which is which is rare that's rare that's exactly what it is I appreciate it thank you very much but it's always it's like see when I come and I'm in front of a camera and what not it's like I need to be present let's say we're having a conversation probably outside I said like my social battery is so like limited nowadays because I just have so many conversations with people so the opportunity to be present is very slim because you can't make everything a priority if everything's a priority then nothing's a priority so I just want to make sure that it is when I'm when I'm talking to people where something is of substance that I am I am I am I am present.

50:53Big thing in boxing is the pay. A big thing, yeah, of course. So how much does a... It varies. It varies. I mean, obviously, I'm not going to disclose how much I own, but a boxer, it depends. It depends, like, on what level. If Auntie Joshua is going to fight someone, what is Auntie Joshua being paid? Depends on who it is. If he's going to fight Tyson Fury. Oh. If Auntie Joshua versus Tyson Fury, what is each fighter going to be taking home? Obviously, I wouldn't know the specifics, but obviously from my knowledge in boxing, I'd probably say, probably nine figures each. It's a lot. It's a lot of money, yeah, of course.

51:30Or if it, I'd probably say eight figures, high eight figures, low nine figures. That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah, so boxing kind of depends. Depends on not only, because you might be the best boxer in the world and still make no money because you're not interested. Boxing's the only sport where it's like, outside of your sport, you still have to kind of pay attention to. So for example, footballer, if you're the best footballer in the world, you're going to be getting paid millions. Correct. As in boxing, you might be the best boxer in the world, but if you can't speak properly or if you are not interested enough, people ain't going to care.

52:08They'd rather go watch Jake Paul. Do you know what I mean? Wow, that's... So it just depends on... It's not always, it's not always just about raw talent. It's about the whole pitch It's about who you are How you speak What you represent How you hold yourself Your talent It's everything Where football is basically Just talent Exactly Like they don't need to speak To the public Or they don't need to sell A football game Because the team Sells it for them So you don't go Nine times are ten People wouldn't go To watch Madrid They would go to watch Real Madrid Whereas in boxing It's like People don't go I'm going to go Watch a boxing fight No they're going to go watch the two people.

52:48But who are the two people? If they're not interested, we won't watch them. So it's like the highest kind of... I think Jake Paul's creeping up there with the highest pay-per-view numbers and he ain't even a legitimate boxer. What do you think of the Jake Paul Tyson fight? I actually didn't watch it. I didn't watch it, but I like Jake Paul. I think he's good for boxing though. Yeah, because he brings eyeballs. He brings eyeballs. He brings a different fan base. Would you fight him? probably not do you think you'd beat him?

53:24so that's a no silly question

53:30no I like Jay Paul I think he's good I think he's funny as well I don't think he's going to come knocking on your door anytime soon I mean I think Moses come on it wouldn't even be a match you know when I see boxers calling out YouTube fighters it's bit cringe you know it's a bit cringe like if if Jake Paul was to offer a fight to somebody and you accept it it's different but you know when boxers go looking for a fight so I don't know why for me it feels a bit cringe if you were going to call out someone who would it be? I don't call people out but if there was a fight that I would love to have had next would obviously be for the heavyweight championship of the world but unfortunately I need to get some rounds in so I need someone that's durable but the thing is I'm 20 years old I still got a lot of time.

54:19Like you think I'm 20 years old and I'm already 13 fights in. Anthony Joshua was 36 and he's only had 25 fights. That's crazy. No, he's had 28 fights, I believe. Is it because it's important to protect because you're going into a fight, right? We spoke about concussions and everything. That is the nature of the sport, right? You need rest from the training camp. You need rest from the media. Use a lot. We're friends. I'm joking. You need the rest from the training, the media. Obviously, a lot of recovery for the brain, for the injuries. Do you get brain scans? Yeah, you have to get a brain scan every year.

55:05But brain scans don't pick up the… CTE. Concussion thing, right? Yeah, but it doesn't… I think it only picks up the function of the brain. It doesn't actually pick up the damage of the brain. I believe it's something along the lines of that. So it's like it won't pick up the wear and tear on the brain. It'll just pick up if the brain is working. Do you worry about that? Yeah, of course. It's one of my biggest fears. Is it? Yeah, it's one of my biggest fears. What's the whole point of having all this money? What's the whole point of having all this fame? You can't remember your name. Like, it's very scary.

55:42Do you think about legacy at all? Not anymore, no. Really? No. So you're doing, you don't think about legacy, you're just doing it because this is what makes you breathe. This is what gives you life. I just, I just, I just enjoy doing it. Actually, I don't enjoy doing it. I, I, I have to do it because I don't feel okay in myself if I don't. And then it just kind of leads me to where I am now. I mean, you know what the thing is, you know, with like legacy, yeah, you know do you do you have stuff in your house yeah that you just keep for the sake of keeping you just want to throw it away but you just can't keep it exactly i feel like that's like if you keep looking back at your legacy there's just stuff that you'd wish you'd rather changed or you just want to throw away but you can't because it's just always there so like that's why i was just like i'm like instead of trying to like looking back in i don't look back in like my legacy or I don't want to look back in my legacy and be like, oh, I had a good career and whatnot.

56:47I'd rather want to take things from what I've done and try to install it so that in other people rather than appreciating it, if that makes sense. But maybe I'm 20 years old. Maybe I'm just thinking of it from an immature mind. But you want to be heavyweight champion of the world? Of course. But not because of being heavyweight champion of the world, because of what being heavyweight champion of the world brings. And you know you're going to be a heavyweight champion of the world. I believe.

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58:19I can't tell you this. I had the best conversation with you, man. I really appreciate everything. Like the biggest fan of you and what you do, but then also being like, and I hope this is not meant to be patronizing me at such a young age, but such a sort of wise head on you is like a true inspiration to younger kids do you know what I'm excited for to me walk you out at your next fight that's what I'm excited for so now I was mad for my last fight in Saudi Arabia my brother said he's just like named all these rappers I was like oh they want to walk you out and I said get my brother Samuel I said get him on the belt and let's go like I said out it's kind of like when I want to walk out I want to walk out with the people that are behind me and I believe that the people that have got always my best interest at heart is always going to be my family I'm not saying I might not ever walk you out but I'm just saying there's a very slim chance I think you're going to say all these rappers and everyone's going to be messing you and you're going to say I want my brother Jamie

59:31Moses man I appreciate it listen I know I know how tough you work How all these things And how hard you train So I appreciate all this time We'd like to end in Quickfire eight questions Are you ready for this? With someone who likes to think This is going to be a tricky one I was going to say I might not be quickfire That's alright man I've got all the time in the world So don't worry about me I just worry about you Nah I've got training at three so Okay so we've got three hours That's good What's a saying or phrase That makes you smile Or cheers you up? Make way Or give way Give way He's like well I know that It was only Nigeria.

1:00:05My security guard that I had, obviously I said I wanted to go to the toilet. He said, okay, no problem. Nigeria is hectic. He's moving people out of the way. There was just one guy just there on his phone minding his business. The security guard gave him an elbow to his chest. He went, oh yeah, give way. The guy's doing nothing. He's minding his own business. I just started laughing. Every time he said, give way, I just started laughing because I just pictured this one kid it's like he ain't even a big fella he just had a hat on mind he's on business and just went back I like that best compliment anyone's ever given you best compliment I've ever got I'd say there's two there was two that was my trainer Ben Davidson I asked him a question I said if you'd have a street fight and you can pick three people to back you who would you choose and he said John Jones Francis Ngannou and Derek Chisora and then he changed Derek Chisora to Mike Tyson and then he said then he said and you as well and I was just like alright I like that one that's probably I don't know why that's good what scares you most about yourself?

1:01:18what scares me? my impulsiveness really? yeah you're impulsive? yeah I mean I'm the type of person to be sitting there on the sofa and just book a quick trip to France really? it's happening it's happening tomorrow Really? You're impulsive? Very impulsive But you're measured as well Because you're thoughtful You think But you're also impulsive Yeah Big one for you When was the last time you cried? The last time I cried Would have been on the Titanic film I'm joking I'm joking I don't know You did cry I don't know I bet you cried at that No, honestly I don't know I don't know When was the last time I cried What's something you can't let go of?

1:01:58My childhood My childhood The reason why I say my childhood is because I'm living what I wanted to do as a kid. So I obviously can't let go of that little dream that that little boy had. Man. Do you think that little kid, you, seeing where you are now, man, do you think he... The thing is, I always knew it was going to happen, but I didn't think it was going to happen so soon. But that's what comes with dedication, persistency, consistency, everything. What's your guilty pleasure? I love burgers. you like burgers I love burgers like a smash burger do you know what I found out about the other day what Shake Shack you found that out sorry you found out the other day I went to Dubai and I was at the airport yeah in Gatwick good they everything was shut the only thing that was open was Shake Shack and I had a Shake Shack burger and I was like oh my god how have I only found out about this and now I'm just driving around London trying to find Shake Shack Cue the sponsorship Get them a sponsorship What turns you off?

1:03:05What? In a female or in In life man whatever it is What turns me off? That's a very broad question I know it is broad I can be more specific I can't It's broad You can pick whatever you want I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to say something that might not be like might not answer your question directly but like I don't like it when I'm trying to be in my own space and people try to kind of come in. You like your own time? Yeah. And when people try to address it? Yesterday, I went out for a bit of food. I went by myself because I wasn't really feeling sociable. So eating my food and that. He's like, oh, Moses, nice meeting you.

1:03:49I should shake his hand. All right, cool. So who are you here with? I'm by myself. Takes a seat. No. and I'm like okay I'm talking talking talking talking and I'm like I don't want to be rude so I just kind of let him stay and still talking talking talking and I'm really unsociable when I'm when I'm unsociable I'm really unsociable and I was just like you didn't say anything I did I said I was like but when the food came out I was like bro I don't want to be rude but and then he was like I understand and then just walked off that's fair I was just like yeah I'm better than most I get that so yeah when people just invade my personal space I don't mind when people come they like take a picture or they might even ask one or two questions but it's just like when like they try to be around me the whole day it's like come on let's move on now I get it I'll cancel my plans then for the rest of the day what turns you on what turns me on obviously now this is obviously a broad question again

1:05:05the sun good answer the sun what do you like most about your boxing style it's unique it's unique because you know like when a fighter comes through they're always trying to compare it to someone else so like when you describe a fighter you won't say oh he's got fast feet and that he's able to do he's like he boxes like Mike Tyson or he's a middleweight Muhammad Ali like they always try to compare to someone but like with me there's there's the only comparison I ever had was with Mike Tyson but it's not because of the boxing style it's because of the success at such a young age but like they can't compare me to anyone so that means I'm unique I'm one of our own it's like I'm like I'm one of the few people that that like kind of play mind games with boxing you know what I mean so and like I liked I like now the fact that people are comparing themselves to me which is so I'll probably say a one of around a one of one El Original Bonus question favourite ring walk song that I've had yeah my last one was good I Get High by Stars P and when we walk out next what's it gonna be?

1:06:18let me sip my drink

1:06:22dude i really appreciate it man thank you so much thank you too yeah just just keep doing what you're doing i can't wait to see all the success you're gonna get i'll be rooting for you all the way i appreciate it really appreciate it man no dude you're kidding me that was freaking great Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do a book, do a book, da-da, yeah, da-da, yeah, da-da, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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