NAOMI ACKIE: Playing Whitney Houston Changed Everything - I’m a Different Person Now

0:00If your eyes are the windows to your soul and your glasses are the windows to your eyes, then it's pretty important to find your perfect frames. That's why at Warby Parker, we've made shopping for eyewear as easy and fun as can be. Peruse endless styles in our stores or use our app to virtually try on frames and get personalized recommendations. To find your next favorite pair of glasses, sunglasses, or contact lenses, or to locate your nearest Warby Parker store, head over to WarbyParker.com. That's WarbyParker.com. You had this anxiety and these panic attacks. So many. On set. Actress Naomi Ackie.

0:38The worst part was when you were playing Whitney. I will never put myself in that position again. I gave a thousand percent when I needed to give 90. I lost like two and a bit stone to play her. I was so hungry. I was directly challenged with the idea of perfection and that nearly destroyed me. Hi, I'm Naomi Ackie and I'm in great company. It's Naomi Ecke! Have you met people that are your heroes, that are your icons? Like Charlie would be like, hey, Nae Nae. I was like, oh my God, Charlie David's calling me Nae Nae! I got him to do a lap dance for my sister. Get out of here! Yes! I was like, Charlie, dance for her!

1:16Dance for her! Are you introvert or extroverted? Introvert. You're introverted? Yeah. Okay. Deeply. It's a problem. I was a very fearful child. A lot of my life, I have been scared. I'm a fearful person by nature. Can we talk about your mum? I remember the feeling as she was dying was that the world was the most vivid it had ever been. She was a very wise woman. She was like, life informs art. You cannot do your art without living your life. You have to live your life. She was the best woman in the world. Guys, welcome back to another episode of Great Company. I'm so excited for this show to come out.

1:55I've been so excited for so long and I'm so excited for you to engage and watch this because you're going to love it. It's with Naomi Aki. Nay-nay to her friends. Don't worry about it. I'm a huge fan of Naomi's work from End of the Fucking World, which is a great TV series, to Blink Twice, which is a movie, to her performing as Whitney in the Whitney Houston biopic. She is incredible. She's British. She's powerful. She's wonderful. She's everything. In this episode, we go through everything from navigating grief to her life growing up to acting to her movie roles, to anxiety and panic attacks that she had while on set filming Whitney Houston, to babies potentially in the future.

2:35It goes everywhere. It's an incredible episode. Right, before we start, I just want to ask you two quick things. If you haven't already, mine and Sophie's brand new TV show is streaming now on Disney+. It's called Raising Chelsea, Jamie and Sophie, The Next Chapter. It's about Sophie and I, before Sophie was pregnant, during her pregnancy, the birth of our little baby and beyond. It's an amazing show and we really hope you enjoy it. It's on Disney Plus right now. You can go and get it. And if you haven't followed or subscribed to our show, Great Company, if you can click that button, it does us wonders.

3:03It keeps allowing us to get amazing guests, keep making a show that you guys keep loving and watching and keeps making the show better and better. So join the community and thank you to you guys. Okay, here we go. Enjoy this unbelievable episode of Great Company with Naomi Aki. Blink twice, right? Yeah. So great. Yeah, it's cool. It's so great. Channing Tatum Zoe Kravitz Zoe Kravitz directed it yeah yeah yeah she's a badass oh let's go Zoe Kravitz right her and Harry Styles are a hot couple uh yeah they look good they look good together just putting it out I don't think anyone's noticed but they they look good together yes they do they look good together they look wonderful together um that movie is all about kind of control yeah and there's some heavy topics in it yeah yeah yeah when you're playing a role like that right within it where um it's it is about control it's about sexual abuse how do you how do you play the character then remove yourself I so that film was just one of the most amazing experiences we were all living on set where was the film because it looked great Mexico maybe oh let's go tequilas tequila tequila it was it it was mezcal actually okay a little smoky alright let's go a little smoky mezcal but yeah we were such a tight community so one of the amazing things about that project was Zoe was like look we're handling this really serious stuff we need to make it fun but we also need to address before we do these bigger scenes that are really terrifying how everyone feels where everyone is at so we were like really tight really honest with each other about where we were at and very careful with each other can I ask you a personal question on that do you think that was because that's coming from a female, from a woman.

4:54Yeah. Do you think that would have happened if it was a male director? I think it definitely could have. I know a lot of very compassionate men, but I think the confidence to talk about it as a woman was, yeah, because Zoe is Zoe, but also because she's a woman and she knows how to handle these deeply emotional situations. And I mean, a lot of the work actually outside of the women talking was, so we would have a women's circle a men's circle and then a group circle that's good and then we would like um we also i remember we were sat on the veranda and it was like the men and the women all together and us talking to each other how we can create a safe space especially for that big awful scene um there was a lot of concern for the men they were amazing like like they they they wanted to do it and they wanted to do it properly but in that we needed to make sure they felt safe too because they were putting themselves in a position that felt really wrong to them so it was there was so much talk and so much compassion for each other and a lot of like stark honesty that was made everyone feel so comfortable kind of bonding truly bonding I mean these people like I would have stayed there for a year I had so much fun and I'm with that safety allows you to do scenes where you're like being dragged around in the forest and they say cut and you're like, all right then, oh, it was my sandwich.

6:26Because you know everyone's holding you. And it was really, it was just, oh, I miss those days. Also, because I think men and women grew up obsessing over Channing Tatum. Yeah, Channing. Yeah. No. That movie does in Magic, right? You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. And that like, what is that one? How is his like hips connected to his shoulder? I don't know. I got him to do a lap dance for my sister. Get out of here! I was like, Charlie, dance for her! Dance for her! She was like, oh, oh no! Man, I would. You're kidding me? Wow, man. Do you still get that? Because even at the height that you are, Do you, when you go on to, because it's interesting, right?

7:21Within this industry of like media and I don't know, I don't know. You see people who have done movies and stuff and you automatically connect, right? Because it's like, oh, you've experienced what I've experienced. So therefore we have a connection even though we haven't met. But when you meet, have you met people that you are, that are your heroes, that you're icons and you kind of, is it strange to act with them or is it kind of very professional? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's strange. I think like the Zoe and Channing of it all on that job was like, Oh my God. Oh my God. And they want to hang out and they want to talk.

7:59What? With me? Okay. Because this is normal because everyone, if they're not saying it, they're lying. They're lying. I was just like, what the hell is going on? It's hey, Nene. Like Channing would be like, hey Nene I was like oh my god Charlie David's calling me Nene what the fuck but then I'd be like morning babes but like it's just it's just like it's so cute it's so fucking weird why is everyone trying to act cool like everyone like shut up I don't know it's just it's not normal and then like I did Minky 17 afterwards and I worked with Robert Pasterton and you're a huge Harry Potter fan huge Huge, huge and a Twilight fan.

8:46Oh. I didn't tell it. I was just like, don't tell him you're too red with. Don't tell him you're too red with. I, yeah. So like, I kind of was like. Were you more Harry Potter or more Twilight? More Harry Potter. I mean, Harry Potter is like millennial. Like that was, I'm a Slytherin. Wasn't. I forgot. Was not ready for that. Was not. I'm Naomi Aki and I'm a Slytherin. Why are you Slytherin? I think it's because of the whole Achievement thing The goals thing I like nice things I don't know but my best friend is a Slytherin too So I feel good about it But Robert Pattinson was amazing He's great, he's amazing He's amazing He's a very special actor He's very easy with it And working with people like that You probably see why Like with yourself whenever you work with you Why people get successful and why people do well in this industry.

9:42Yeah, and I saw, I remember this one day. So we were on set and he's a really like, just a normal guy, right? And like he doesn't, he's not like, hi, I'm Robert Pattinson. Do you know what I mean? So I kind of forgotten that he was who he was. And I was seeing him talking to director Bong and I was just like, I happened to be by the kind of TVs that show what's going on on camera. And he was on camera and I was watching him talk to director Bong and I was like yeah that's Rob and then I looked at the the the tv screen and I was like fucking hell that's Robert Pattinson and there was something that happened with his face on camera that was different to the person I'd seen and I was like oh that's the my mom used to call it the it factor like there's a there's an energy some people have that you just can't put your finger on, but they have it.

10:38And it's a very magical thing. It's just a presence. And he has it and Zoe has it and Channing has it. And a lot of Florence, oh my God, has it. Cosmo has it. Like I've been lucky to work with so many people who just have a presence and it just, it's not a look. It's not about your face. It's the inside thing. It's an energy thing and it just switches on. And you can see it. You can just feel it. Harry Potter Twilight. right yeah are you still big into your fantasy books i'm getting back into it really i i'm trying to force myself to read how i used to read because i stopped reading a book a week yeah yeah i was just absorbing so much like amazing stories and then social media came into my life and that that kind of f'd it the joy of a book like the joy i would get from reading a good book Like I still, I don't even, it's a very separate joy to watching a good film.

11:38It's a very different feeling. It's so personal. Like it's such a personal journey. And I was never a big reader. And then actually I sort of challenged myself last year to start reading. So now I read more books. And what I didn't realize, right, about books. Okay. This is maybe TMI. Yeah. Like when you watch a movie and there's like a romantic, like an erotic scene in the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just, you watch it. You're like, you're like, in a book. Crazy Holy Have you heard Of Akata The sexy fairy book No what is this Oh mate What's Akata Do you know these A Court of What did you do A Court of Thorns and Roses Okay It's a series of books And you know These all start the same She's just a girl Right She's just a girl Innocent sweet girl She's an innocent sweet girl She just knows how to use a bow and arrow out of nowhere.

12:35She gets kidnapped. Hot guy kidnaps her. You're going to stay in my house. But now I love you. Now we're going to have sex. No. This is all in the book. Yeah, this is in the book. And now you've got magic powers too. And now you've got to save the whole world. That's essentially what these books are. It's unbelievable. But there is a lot of slow burn, beautiful passages of really intimate things. Do you know what? This is what I've worked out. This is what I've worked out, right? Yeah. Okay. Let's go TMI. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. What I realized, like, with sex and things like that, right? I always would think, like, just get in there.

13:18Get it on. See it. Like, let's go. That's what I thought. Now I've read erotic fiction a little bit. Yeah. Oh, no. No. It's a lot slower. Yeah, take your time. Weeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Start on Monday. You may get it Sunday. Yeah. It's a look. It's the heavy breathing. It's the storyline. It's the storyline. It's the stakes. Okay. It's the location. This is too much. But ACOTA has, I suggested it to my agency then. all read it they were like oh my god i love it like i think it's just done something it's same i guess as heated rivalry like it's just awoken something in women that's that's awoken something in my mum honestly 71 and she's like she can't get enough heated rivalry i need to watch yeah she's like i don't know what my mum is doing in her house you don't need to worry about that I don't think about that.

14:22You've just got Instagram back? Well, I've had it. I've always had it, but then I took it off my phone so that I wouldn't be sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's actually the best description. It makes me sad. But then I put it back on because work. Yeah. And also like trying to figure out how to like be, I don't know, because I'm just an actor. So it's just like, what kind of, I feel like the work, it does the thing. But now we're in a space where the work doesn't just do the thing. That is interesting about movies at the moment, because I feel like movies are in a weird place. Upsettingly. Upsettingly weird.

15:07And it feels like maybe it's like stunt, like how you market it means more than sometimes the film itself. I'm old fashioned. I didn't realize how old fashioned I was in terms of my approach to the work until like maybe the last five years, probably from like when I did Whitney. I was like, I don't want this. I don't want the I don't want to conjure up this like excitement about myself. I want to conjure up excitement about the story. But that's just not the reality of the world we live in. So it's kind of, and if I don't do it or don't try to do it, I don't know. You can face situations where you're not, you're missing out on opportunities potentially from not playing the game.

15:55That is really interesting because what you're kind of saying that is movies are these kind of beautiful things that we love. And as a consumer, it's like you get to go to the cinema, but you also forget it's a business. and you kind of forget how much money goes into these things and how people and the way people see it is through marketing and so what you're saying is that you kind of just want to act i just want to act you just want to act i just that's all i want to do you don't want to have to be this marketing platform as well i don't don't and it feels like then it's like you're selling a personality look the thing is it's like i'm hired to do a job where i play a character that's awesome but then it feels like not being hired and actually paying because when you do promotion for a job you're paying your publicist to put you out there so I'm paying to pay another character because that's not me do you know what I mean yeah I never thought of it I'm just like what's this about yeah it's expensive it's expensive I don't I shouldn't say that but like it is it's expensive and it also like I always get this thing I'm better at it now but like going to an event or a red carpet and you put on all the clothes and the makeup and stuff and like there's all the people and the adrenaline is awesome in the moment but then you always go back home and then you're just you again and then you're like what was that and it's not real but it is real but it was real for a second does it does it are you introvert or extroverted introverted you were introverted yeah okay deeply it's a problem I've got to retrovise it at some point in my life so going to those red carpets and do those awards that's mate that's a tricky one my boyfriend like the amount of times I've been in the car I've been like I can't do it I don't want to go I don't want to go I'm sweating from my pits I'm like it stirs something in me that is so uncomfortable with being looked at.

17:56I get this thing where I try ahead of going to a space where there's a lot of people, where there's a lot of variables, planning out what I'm going to say to everyone, just in case I run out of conversation. And if there's too many people, then there's too many things to try and control. I'm a control freak, but it's about anxiety really. And so I'm He was asking me on the way because I was like, I'm just feeling that like rush of adrenaline. I'm getting shivery. Like I had to do a lot of deep breathing and stuff to calm down before entering that space. And he was like, well, it's weird because then you're not like that on set.

18:40And I was like, yeah, because I know what's expected of me. I know when I step on a set, you know, six o 'clock in the morning, I sit in the chair. I get my makeup done. I put my costume on. then I sit around in a trailer then they go right nay go and do the lines thing do the acting thing you do I do the thing and then I go back and it's it's very simple whereas like people outside of work are more complicated and there's more things to read and there's more subtext and I just don't but also in that situation where you're sitting in a trailer and you're doing that you're fully prepared and yes that's actually a good point and you're a perfectionist right so you go into your whenever you go onto a movie set you know exactly who you're playing you know the lines you know everything about it so there's no surprises for you no surprises and I cannot stand surprises I read the last page of books get out of here I'm not joking you why I love a spoiler oh I love a spoiler I would like I love the last page of a book when you've ever got.

19:45Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's madness. Just to know where it goes because I quite like, I don't mind knowing the end because I quite like how it gets to the end. Okay. That's kind of, but that's kind of, it's kind of upsetting. I know, I know. It's kind of upsetting. I know because I just can't take, like every time I watch a TV show or something and something goes wrong, it causes my body. I'm like, I can't, even if I know it's not real, I just can't take it. Wow. The tension is too much, so I need to skip it, or I need to know what happens. But if we were going to get deep for a second, where do you think the fact that you don't like surprises, that you want to know the ending, that you want to read the last page of the book, where do you think that comes from?

20:31It's a deep fear. No, it's true. It's a deep fear of the unknown. You know, even as an example, I decided I wanted to be an actress at age 11. I was like this is the thing I'm gonna do and and I was like I don't know I remember like trying to strategize at 11 to like 17 trying to figure out how I was gonna do it I I like to have things in place because of security and I think ultimately growing up it wasn't I love my family and they're amazing but it wasn't necessarily it I didn't feel secure all the time in that space are the big personalities, conflict, you know, I was the quiet one. I was the youngest.

21:15I was the kind of quiet, I don't want to say good child because we were both good children. I was, I have an older sister. I think. She was more dominant. Yeah. Yeah. And she's seven years older than me. And there was things going on in her life and in my parents' lives and they were healing through their stuff. And it wasn't neat and I really don't blame them for that but as a child I watched a lot of those things happen in real time and can I ask what was going on yeah I mean a lot I think my mum and dad were like deeply in love deeply my mum passed when I was 22 but they were deeply in love but also growing pains and also just healing from their own stuff um and the same with my sister and the same with me in a way it just happened later on in life and I think it calls for a lot of attention to be um aimed at each other because they were all older and for me I just went very quiet and the lesson I learned was like be small be good um and I just started to hyper focus on this acting thing that obviously has has paid off but that thing of like find security find safe spots means that when when I don't know what's what's going to go on there was actually too many things available this is too dangerous to think oh my gosh the whole world is open to you have so many options I'm just like a pick one and stick at it for a very very long time but funnily enough when I'm acting I don't actually prep a lot.

22:58Do you not? I'm a winger. Because you're that good.

23:04Really? No, I really do. Why? Because it makes you feel a bit more loose that you can be loose within the script in a way. Yeah, I learned the lesson off of Whitney because that one I prepared too much. I got so obsessed with it because it was like a real person and everyone loves Whitney that I look at that performance and I'm like, oh, so stiff. and it's so like prepared and it's not loose enough that's what you're yeah I think you're the only one saying that that was Whitney Houston's biopic I want to dance right yeah somebody yeah yeah and since then I've gone opposite I'm like if I read the script and I like the script amazing obviously read it a few times talk with the director and then the joy is finding it in the moment and finding the impulses in the moment and not trying to analyze what the outcome is going to be and just go whatever it is it is see what happens and look at like filmmaking or character work now is like um a experiment instead of like a product okay but then I would argue with you right yeah okay so if you're finding that in your in your work life right where you're you're going into it less prepared yeah and you're getting a better outcome yeah that feels like you could replicate that in life yeah but the stakes are different mate why are the stakes different because it's real life isn't it like if i if i do a film right yeah and then like some person on on instagram or twitter or a viewer or whatever it's like ah she's a bit subpar in this i'll be like and then it's over everyone forgets it doesn't it doesn't affect you but if you make mistakes in in real life if you hurt people's feelings or if you weird them out or i don't know you you have a conflict those things stick with people and i want to really be careful i'm like a little bit neurotic no you don't listen we're all a little bit neurotic so don't worry we're all a little bit yeah but i i'm so i i feel deeply responsible for how i make people feel i don't want to weird people out i feel like a weirdo inside so i just i'm very like trying to like keep a keep a lid on it that's so interesting because you don't want you're trying to keep a lid on your actual realness because you're worried that's going to affect it's gonna yeah and i just kind of want to just bumble through life and people go oh she's nice but again we we've we've briefly met right yeah you're you're got wonderful energy and you're kind thank you and you're interested and you're interesting like are you thank you but so so why would you we're all a little bit weird there's that great saying why fit in when we're born to stand out right so what are you trying to box yourself in what makes you feel like a weirdo oh just like because it's you in your head I can also understand that everyone probably feels like a weirdo I think there is like a I don't I really do think I need to get a screening it's been on my mind for probably about 15 years of of being like there is something different about how I I see the world and you know I think the thing that has helped shield it is the acting it's funny because I think like whenever I've talked to other people they're like but you're an actor you know you can you look people in the eye and you seem so confident it's like yeah but like there's an internal stuff going on about how to navigate social spaces that takes up a lot of effort um the big thing for me is like figuring out how to be more social because I'm I'm a homebody I I like being alone or ideally it's a one-on-one love for at a dinner beautiful for anything more than that I'm starting to hear every voice on around the table I can't concentrate on what someone is saying my attention is dotting around left right and center I can't focus and the overstimulating thing is the thing I'm working on I'm actually more tuned into it now than I have been in the past I think when I was younger I used to have panic attacks like constantly from the age of maybe 11 till 27 I would say just panic attacks for many different reasons like and I used to think it was stress from the home and then when my mum passed I was like this is about mum but I think a lot of it has been being overstimulated and being dysregulated and not knowing how to self-soothe um wow yeah so like now I'm probably the calmest I've ever been since probably Whitney Whitney was a turning point emotionally for me because it was such a huge mental upheaval yeah and I was away from home and I was really like as low as you could get during the making of that film and I came back I went on antidepressants for about six months to a year and then after that I was like I came off of them I was like okay I've had enough distance from that emotion to be able to handle it now and know that it's not going to destroy me um and now I'm like oh I'm overstimulated when you're acting you almost saying you feel uncomfortable within yourself a lot of the time but when you're acting you feel comfortable playing another character but why try if we hard to break down why is that i feel like it's actually like a very pure truth that you're displaying when you are um inhabiting a moment what i love about filmmaking is that the script is the script and actually like for me i'm like that's not really my responsibility i'm like action and cut i can explore the depth for whatever tone whatever situation any given circumstance the truth of that and that feels extremely honest in a way that the world doesn't like if I'm if there's a character where like they're telling a truth and then there's a subtext and there's maybe a hint of a lie in it I can explore all of that in the take in the scene and display it and show it and go this is what that looks like and it feels like I'm mimicking the things that I've seen in real life in the most truthful way possible and there's a lot of freedom that comes with that for me real freedom because I feel like sometimes the world is just full of subtext wow and I all I see is subtext in the real world so what is it about the world that doesn't feel honest to you because everyone has that i mean i i guess because i'm so obsessed with like stories and stuff like that i think everyone has their motivations yeah everyone has and this is like not a dig on the world as it is it's just the way the world works but we have our intentions we have our super goals our mini goals for the day what we want out of a person there's a lot of transactions that come out of social um completely agree do you know what i mean yeah and so i think because i'm hyper focused on people, what I see a lot is that subtext.

30:29And I can see what someone wants before they've even really, I feel like I can see what someone wants before they. But with that, one could argue that maybe it's a cynical way to look at things. Oh, completely, mate. It's not a nice way to be. I'm not saying this in a like, this is like really a special gift. And I also acknowledge it's a feeling. It's not necessarily the truth. but that's how I move through the world is being like what do people want what do I want kind of comes like second or third but it's like what is the situation and how can I handle it and come out safe so it's a very like and then again it's like strange to be an actor because obviously that's a business that is all about what individuals want and stuff So would you prefer to live in a world, in a fantasy world, with your characters and live in that world?

31:27Or do you prefer living in the world, the real world? I love living in the real world. And that has happened with time. If you asked me this 10 years ago, I'd have been like, put me in a fantasy book. Escapism was the only thing for me. Because you want to escape the real life. I want to escape the real life. I love my life. I've found real peace and found my baseline of happiness. I'm really like content. I have enough. I'm good. I'm calm. Like I think it's maybe because I'm 34 now. So I'm like, I don't know. Maybe that just happens. You get to an age where you... I'm just too tired, mate. I'm just too tired to be pushing.

32:0534 is an age where you start to go a little bit, I think. A little bit. Oh, it's actually okay. Okay. Yeah. So no, I actually think more so I'm in observation mode right now. before I can go into action about changing how I interact with the world. I'm in observation of like, oh, this is how I'm feeling. These are the things I can change to enhance my life more. But the baseline is good. I have a set of good friends. I have a really beautiful partner who I love dearly. We live in a nice part of London, right by the river. Never thought that would happen. I meant to tell you My boyfriend's a posho Let's freaking go He's a big old posho You think I'm a posho?

32:55You're a big old posho But you're That's amazing Because then you're feeling at peace Because Because you're more Understanding of the world You realise that perhaps With exposure to the world It's not as scary as maybe you thought So you're a bit more relaxed with it Yes And you're at peace with your work because you know that you're killing it and you're doing good. Yeah, and I'm good. There's just like a security and I guess a quiet confidence. I don't – the only time I get like – Tell me – do you know what I mean? Yeah, I get it. That feeling is like if I'm in a good work mode and someone pisses me off at work, I'm like, do you know what I can fucking do?

33:41Do you know who the fuck I am? But it's only in my trailer really quietly. I never really say that daily or not. Yeah, yeah. Oh, what I could say to you. Ooh, the way I act. Ooh. And then when you see them, you're like, hi, no, where do you want me? It's like, that's the only time. But that's amazing, that quiet confidence. It's so brilliant. And we should weirdly shout more within ourselves. Inside. Inside about that quiet confidence. Inside. I know what I can do. I know that like. Wow. And in terms of real life, I did EMDR. usually trauma or PTSD is because when you think of that if you're triggered to think of a past trauma your brain takes you back in time to that time so your body feels yeah what it was back then when you bring that memory back up you're reprogramming your body to realize it's safe yeah in this space and you're trying to retell the story yeah is the way I learned that's exactly it's it's the it's the look I I've done I've done a lot of therapy yeah I think EDMR is the best thing I've ever done it's insane so I I was a very fearful child and I there was a there was a EMDR session where I was going back to a point when I think I was maybe like six or seven years old but I was extremely afraid and that's young to be afraid very young to be afraid because conflict within the house conflict within the house and I I so I'm imagining it and I'm imagining myself small feeling very small but like doing something that was actually quite brave in the moment but I was focused so much on the fear and then something happened where I started reimagining it and I had like um I just imagined the small version of myself wearing armor almost going out to war and i don't know how this happened it was quite a long session but the realization came of like i was scared but i did it anyway and like a lot of my life i have been scared i'm a fearful person by nature i don't know why i think it's i i'm starting to think about there's this word epigenetics or something it's like the the how past trauma down down the line has affected you It's just in my body.

36:01And I've always attributed that fear to being, the feeling of fear to being weak, to being vulnerable in my life and being like, God, I'm just always so scared. I'm always so scared. I'm so sick of that. And like, why can't I be brave? Why can't I be brave? And then the realization came of like, yeah, but I do things anyway. Like I'm terrified of crowds. I work in a space that's usually housing at least 300 people. Like I'm terrified of people. I've managed to be in a really healthy relationship. And then suddenly I was like, yeah, I'm scared, but I'm doing things anyway. I'm fucking brave. I'm the bravest person I know.

36:41I'm really fucking brave. And it hasn't stopped the fear. I'm still a fearful person, but there's an appreciation that also I do things anyway. and that felt really like a solid thing to me like I saw this um quote recently that was like if you're if you're saying that you're self-aware but you're only labeling the negative things you're branding yourself with like just all the things that you don't like about yourself and it's so important to start finding out the things that make you um not a good person because good is such a blah blah word like a fleshed out human being I spent a lot of time being like right I've got to fix myself you know what's the wrong things and tick them off the list and it's like no but what are the good things what are the good things focusing on the good things yeah that is such a good point because I think we do that the whole time we're so hard on us hard mate and we don't look at the stuff we've actually done and completed and achieved we think what we haven't achieved that we always look up yeah rather than we look at like what we're doing here we'll look behind us right and see what we've done that is and also I think you're so right where you know So you've been so afraid, but actually you're doing all the things that you're afraid of because you're so focusing on what you're afraid of.

37:55You're forgetting that you're actually doing the stuff that you're afraid of. Yeah. And then I go, oh, bloody hell, what else could I do?

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38:38You said earlier, right, about how you had this anxiety and these panic attacks and felt depressed, and it led them to about 27. And the worst part was when you were playing Whitney. Yeah, yeah. What's so interesting, there's a great quote, which is, when you're at your house, that's when the devil comes to you. Why do you think it was your hardest moment? Because I know you spoke about it, because you're a perfectionist as well, and you're playing Whitney Houston. Whitney Houston. I mean, come on. I mean, when that role comes in. Mate, I told them, don't hire me. Get out of here. I'm not joking.

39:14I said, between me and you, I was like, my agents would kill me if I said this. I am not the one. I said, like, go elsewhere. Why? Because? Because I'm British. Because I don't look like Whitney. Because it was too big. It felt intimidating. I think, like, inside spiritually. I'm a woo-woo girl. And I was like, instinctively, I know this is going to take something. And I was like, I was looking ahead. I was like, casting my, as my mum would say, she'd always like, call your spirit back. I was like casting my spirit forward to be like, yeah, that's going to cost a lot. So why take the audition?

39:50Ego. Really? Ego, I was like, all right then. They pumped me up with a bit of like, you're great. We just want to see you. And I was like, oh, let me just. My goal was do the audition so they think I'm a good actor, but don't do it so well that they give me the part. I think you nailed it. Well, yeah. but but and and i i think what whitney did was it actually gave me the thing that i had said i wanted and this is why i think i'm a bit woo woo i had been saying for about a year before i want to do something that scares me i want to play a lead and i want to play an american and then whitney came and i was like okay all right lord all right uh and i i felt this pull to do it because I was like, if I can do this, then I can do anything.

40:41The reason why Whitney was so terrifying was because it pushed me into a space where I knew so many people were going to watch it. There were so many eyes on it. There were so many opinions. I know how biopics work when it comes to that stuff. Also, hey, I'm a black British woman playing an American, black American hero and there is conflict within that which is understandable there was so much and then there was the technical stuff it was the learning to look as close to someone else learning to move like them learning to talk like them I lost I was like I weighed like nine and a half stone I lost like two's two and a bit stone to play her I was so hungry just dieting I was basically by the end to no one was forcing me to do this which was the weirdest thing like i was doing the active thing where i was like i have to do it i was eating like two protein bars a day to get down to that weight that's where your obsessiveness came in right and you just became obsessed then you become obsessed with the weight because you have to hit the weight and it was a control thing and that becomes unhealthy and it's deeply unhealthy to the point where i was like i but also weirdly i was like oh my god finally i'm sample size and then I was sample size while I was filming being like I have to hold on to this for the premiere so that I I can do that but then obviously that's not my natural way did you like the way you looked at the time because that's I looked weird dude like my head is I've got a big head right I was like lollipop head even my dad my dad and my sister were like oh oh nay I was just like I'm finally a size eight.

42:26And I'm just like shaking. And so there came that into it. I was away from home. But the big thing for me was I was directly challenged with the idea of perfection. Because when you play any kind of character that's made up, no one has something to compare it to. this I knew if I do a performance that Whitney has done someone is going to pull up the YouTube video of Whitney doing that same performance and put them side by side and go oh yeah oh no and so I the because I'm a perfectionist to a t that fucking bothered me and I wanted to get it as perfect as possible and that nearly destroyed me that is that is unhealthily obsessive because Because you're not Whitney.

43:20Unfortunately. And as much as you want to get to that place, and my God, you nailed that. Thank you. You absolutely nailed it. But if you're a perfectionist in your head, you're never going to be Whitney. Because you can't. It's impossible. It is impossible. And also, I think that, but the amazing thing about that job is what I learned was like, oh, your job costs something and you get to decide how much you want to pay, I will never put myself in that position again. Like I gave a thousand percent when I needed to give 90. You know, there's always this thing now where I'm like, how much is this going to cost my body?

44:02How much is this going to cost me of my time, my effort, my energy? And how can I limit that and kind of control my obsessive part of myself to just not take myself there. It's just not healthy. It's not nice to be around. I'm not nice to be around. Panic attacks during it? Oh, so many. On set. Really? I remember one time, Stanley Tucci, he's on set. We're very excited about it. It's maybe one of our first scenes. And I meant to go in and be all excited as Whitney for a song. And I meant to knock on the door. They say action. I knock on the door and I just freeze at the door. He's inside. And I just like, when I have panic attacks, I have to go down and touch the floor.

44:50And so I just went down and just was holding the floor. And they were like, action, Naomi, action. And I'm just like frozen to the spot. And I remember feeling so bad because I like delayed the day for like half an hour. I'm so sorry. Like, I don't know what came over me. What are you feeling at that time? Is it adrenaline, heart rate goes up, you think you're dying? Yeah, it's a freeze. It's a freeze. It's a buildup of so much energy, really. Like Dragon Ball, you know, like Super Saiyan, like, you just want to like, like you feel like you're like an atomic bomb and you're just working so fucking hard to put a stopper on it because it could destroy everything and everyone all around you is what panic attacks feel like to me wow yeah i feel like goku so then you you any part any part of you regrets taking that part no not a single part of me it was deeply painful and deeply enriching and it showed me myself it's like there are there are a few times in your life where you are faced with yourself.

46:05And I saw myself and I saw the amazing parts of myself, but I mainly saw the parts of myself that needed help and needed a hug and needed someone to be like, you are enough. You are fine. Go and sit down, have a break, go to sleep, eat some fucking food, mate. Do you know what I mean? And I actually look at that time, it was about two years of really rough, rough going. And I look back and I'm like, thank you to that past Naomi for going through that. Because the me now. Because you learn from that, right? It's like Water for Duck's Back, mate. Wow. Do you watch your films back? Only if I have to.

46:49Only if you have to. But do you look at it and you think, no, no, are you proud of that? I look at work and I go, all right. Come on. That's the best I can do. Come on. That's the best I can do. That's the best you can do. I'm like, hmm. So you've never had a moment where you're in the scene and you're going, and you're going, I am killing it. Have you ever done a scene and you've gone, and you've gone, or Drew, you're going, I'm going to get the fucking Oscar. Oh, no way, no way, no. You know what I will say? I've just finished doing a boxing film that I was training for eight months to do. I'm one of the producers Like a baby producer Like shadow producer really But I'm very excited about the project I don't know when it's coming out But I did see As a producer you get the rushes Which is like your Like the scenes of the day And we did the final fight And that I was like Fucking hell Come on mate I was like I was like going in Yeah, no, mate, I'm a fucking boxer now.

47:57That's good. I'm fast too. Oh, I'm excited about it. So I do get it, but it's more about the skill that I'm showing than it is about my acting technique. So I never got it when there's the emotional scenes. When I'm watching those, I'm like, okay, cool, cool, cool. It's much more analytical. But things where I've like worked really hard to achieve like a certain look that will make the audience feel like I am fully immersed in the character, then I'm like where do you find that emotion right because when you're playing these emotional roles and you have to dig deep and find it where do you go to or how does someone find that emotion if they have to do these scenes yeah okay so when I first started the first film I did was called Lady Macbeth the scenes it was very emotional scenes and I couldn't cry on cue it was with Florence Pugh who is 19 years old this girl is running that set I mean just the most incredible I was 24 I couldn't cry had to use tear stick what's tear stick?

49:01it's like menthol for your eyes so I could like do it they would put the menthol on and then and then I'd be like and then my tears would come because it felt like the thing that I was waiting for was the tears to come got it so then it would go then it would go makes sense yeah then I lived life and you accumulate You accumulate experience. And that is the big thing about emotion. Because my mistake at 24 was thinking that I needed to show tears to show emotion. That the tears come first and then the words come and then that's the emotion. That's not it. Actually, there are so many moments in life that you are highly emotional.

49:46And it's not tears or it's not shouting. It's something different. but you can only do that with experience and that was my first film I'd ever done and it worked for that but now 10 years on I just sit I'm still I breathe loosen your jaw not just I don't want this to become like tricks on how to cry on cue but like there is tension that you hold in your body that can help loosen up um when you loosen it up it can reveal something deeper and so with emotional scenes it's about staying in the moment understanding the given circumstances and seeing what your body wants to do and stepping out of the way is it it's a very kind of like it it's very you just gotta feel it just you just do it and sometimes what i'll say to the director is like i'm like i know where i want it to go and i say look we're on action i want us to go through the scene and then i instead of doing a setup and setting up lights again i just want to do it three times in a row well and you now have the confidence to say that to a director whereas before you probably couldn't say that so if someone's like this and you say maybe have the confidence to say that to a director because you can know yourself you know yourself what your body needs and it's like just listening to your body and not putting um importance on the goal per se I really want to like have this moment and this is why the over-rehearsal is doesn't work it's it's the I need to ah you're not listening to me Gerald It's not that.

51:29It's fucking sitting in your body and then listening and listening to your scene partner. What is the energy of another person? Wow. Like it's all in the room. It's all in the room. You know, Lady Macbeth, you work with Florence Pugh, Cosmo Jarvis. Yes. Crazy. And you're all having like success. We did all right. It's like, let's go. Yeah, yeah, we did all right. So can you, can you now cry on? Yeah. No, you can't. Yeah, I can. It's a, it's a, it's a quiet set. It's, it's the understanding with the director and the actors. It's, it's, it's going, it's really giving yourself over to the story. Wow.

52:14So you have to surrender. Just, it's a surrender. And I, yeah, I, I now, I now I can cry on cue. Sometimes I actually cry too much. So like. And then you're like, I'm crying too much No, no, seriously, I'm like, why am I crying in this scene? I think it's really annoying There are a few projects I can think of where I'm like Oh God, she's just going to be one of those crying bitches All the way through It's going to be annoying And they're going to have to cut around that a lot Do you know, on the red carpet last year you were asked What's your proudest moment? And you said I'm not often proud of myself Oh no, nay And I said that's bad isn't it I think she wanted me to be inspirational Do you still think that or has that changed?

53:06No, that hasn't changed How? I think Because on one side you're saying you're feeling more content You're feeling more safe, you're feeling more brave You're feeling these things but yet you're still not proud of yourself Yeah Yeah, like I get it on a, like a, not subjective, objective. I can look at my achievements. Got you. And be like, yeah, those are cool things. But proud, yeah. Because it's a personal level that you feel, because you feel you haven't completed yourself or? Yeah, and I don't know whether, look, the thing is, is that when I started this job, my whole life, his early life was surrounded by this job I was so obsessed I I would do before agents before before even drama school I would sit on a weekend and look up monologues from films and record myself acting so then I could look back on the tapes and see what I needed to improve like I was obsessed and then and then I started working and I thought drama school or like getting my first theater job or or doing a film would do something to me on the inside it would fix me right and it didn't and actually the further along I got in my career I was expecting these like aha moments to come out of achievement it didn't happen and it made me really sad and it made me feel like well what's the fucking point then and I had to really start to assess my dad really helped me a lot with this of like why are you looking for achievements to fix you that's that's maybe not the space that you need to do that in and so proud when I was asked that question on the red carpet it felt like it was maybe angled towards the things I'd achieved and I don't I have done those things and I'm happy I've done those things I also see huge room for improvement I hopefully by God's grace have a very long career ahead of me and I haven't reached my peak yet and I want to take my time with it and let's see what happens but like proud is still very a hard word for me and I'm really trying hard to separate ego from achievement and that is my mission right now so that you know winning an award or being asked to go to a really fancy event doesn't meet doesn't make me think that finally someone thinks i'm important that actually those are just those are things they're transit transitory they don't last they're temporary but what's um i think that's really important for people to hear right because i think we we are somehow ingrained within especially because of social media that these external factors fame wealth power whatever it is will make us happy yeah and make us content and the more you have the more you're going to feel better but it's actually not it's actually the inside it's the inside and i had this guy called bob wallingford on the podcast who talked about happiness right and he basically it's all about connections with family and friends and that's really what's going to make us happy and yeah we focus on the wrong things and you you the famous story of um uh matt damon and ben affleck when they won the oscar for goodwill hunting so young yeah matt damon said i'm so glad i won it so you won it so young because it made me realize that actually that wasn't the thing that was going to always make me happy it's just it's just it's a way to distract yourself from yourself and i i don't know you know in the same way i don't even want to go like when i have kids that's when i'll feel it like I'm just going no I'm not I'm not I used to spend hours just daydreaming about like things that would make me feel complete and happy and I'm like no I'm just going to go moment to moment the best I can especially in the world that we live in today it's really fucking hard to stay in the moment it's the most it feels like the most possible thing I think we all feel that right everyone it's crazy it's crazy and so i'm just i don't even know like who who knows we're going to be here next year we probably will but like but you don't know i've lost people in my life like the things happen fucking fast you lose people you lose things you make money you lose money okay all right

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58:14Can we talk about your mom? Yes, we can talk about my mother. Yeah. You said before your mom passed away of cancer when you were 22. Yeah. Yeah. And you said it helps to know that my mom believed I could make it. She taught me that if you want to make work of quality, then you must take your time, be diligent and get obsessed. she taught me to approach my work stitch by stitch little by little because in her spare time she was a seamstress yeah yeah that's amazing it's so cool that's so cool and it's such a true thing in life especially now and that really resonated with me right because we're so about instant yeah instant get entertained watch youtube get drunk have a drink yeah but actually good quality work it takes time life takes time building a career takes time takes time friendship relation it takes time she was she was someone she was like nay there is beauty in the ordinary there's so much beauty in the everyday ordinary and I think when I was younger it was very much like I want the flash I want the lights I want the people and the yeah she was like bring it back bring it back make it small daily daily offerings up to the craft that you're saying that you want to master um and that has been a lesson I I started with when I was 11 and told her I wanted to be an actress but I understand it more every year that goes by that this as I feel myself growing into my craft it is the thing that I pin it to she also said life informs art she was very wise woman she was like life informs art you you cannot do your art without living your life you have to live your life and live it in whatever way you want and and that is something as well so I always I'm at work and work takes so much out of you and so much time away from you and then when I come back to life I'm like I'm back I this is my this is my workspace feels sometimes more like my workspace than it is to work isn't it amazing she's still teaching you those lessons?

1:00:19Mate, the best one I had, so to get quite, I mean, this is touching, but also disturbing to hear. Her cancer was really extreme. It had metastasized to her brain. It meant that she couldn't see or hear when she passed. So on one of the last days when she was alive there wasn't a lot of ways that we could communicate with each other I I don't know why I said I said to her I was like mom tell me a story like tell tell me something and it's on one of my old iPhones I need to figure out how to get the data off of it because it's so old and broken but she was like one day there this is the story she told me one day there was a man who wanted to travel the world and kind of get his faith the riches and fames and and go and collect all of that so he he left home and he did it he traveled the world and he found fame and riches and all the spoils of the world and when he had it all he realized that everything he needed was right back at home

1:01:38she was the best woman in the world she was so so wise yeah but isn't that the truth so the truth it's so the truth everything we need yeah is at home and and not in our home but like in us like the illusion that we have in this world that we've been given to is such a fallacy that everything we need is outside of us, what we buy, what is on our bodies, what our bodies look like, who we're with, what house we live in. It's a lie. The real magic is inside. When you sit inside of yourself and you get to know yourself and love yourself where you are at, there's nothing more peaceful than that. And that's really what I'm trying to get to is to kind of complete that story.

1:02:36That's for you. Thank you. I cannot tell that story without a little tear. You kidding me. Yeah. There's a real... Thank you. God, and I sort of just, I don't know how to approach this without, and I hope this doesn't come across sort of strange, but when you lose someone in your life, right, someone so close to you it is the worst thing in the world but it also and I don't know but it also must teach you how fragile life is and so even though it's the worst thing in the world it perhaps makes you also I reflect and realize wait life is temporary it's it's now this is home is this is what's important yeah all this other stuff isn't and it feels like it may be taught you so much.

1:03:21It woke me up, mate. I was like, I just left drama school when mum got sick the second time. And I still remember that year. I can't remember much because of the trauma of it. Like I actually can't remember from around like 22 to about 25. I just saw the blur. Just blur. Yeah. But I remember the feeling and the feeling as she was dying was that the world was the most vivid it had ever been. I had never had a truer feeling I had never seen a grayer sky I had you know I mean like these things were really vivid and overwhelmingly um clear and honest and the thing is is that with time you kind of it dulls you know it dulls over time um I actually recently lost a friend um maybe about six weeks ago now um and it came back you know i'm kind of back in the grief cycle again and trying to find a new um i'm so sorry yeah but life life man fucking life but yeah and you go oh fuck I hear I'm back again it's different I'm older it's not apparent so you know my my friend is is the the reliance it's different it's different it's a different grief and then you're like oh wow this is a brand new experience the loss is the same but the experience of grief is different and then you go okay I'm gonna have to figure out how to live around this thing but there are lessons in it are there things that you understand now about grief that you didn't back then um yeah that it's you can't control it that you have to sit with it um don't fight it it has lessons and it is proof of the love that you have there's this thing right I'm gonna go really woo woo let's go i can't wait so i was listening to a jay shetty podcast the other day love jay he's just great really cool guy yeah he's great and he had a spiritual medium on i'm really not into the medium stuff but um she was talking about uh spiritual guides and she was saying that like um you you can kind of tap in and like check in with your spiritual guides they're people you've lost your ancestors people you've never met and you can like uh you can say okay spiritual guides if you're there show me something show me a sign so I'm in the night and I'm like all right if you're there like show me a fox right random fine next day I'm in work I've forgotten about it almost I'm on set and um this woman who I've worked with for the last like month is wearing a short sleeve t-shirt.

1:06:21I've never seen her in a short sleeve t-shirt and she's got a tattoo on her wrist. I'm like, oh, what's that tattoo? Bring it to me. It's a fox. And then I was like, I was like, what the fuck? And then I told everyone on set. But then I was like, what if, just what if this is not a loss in the way that I have previously thought it what if it's a transition what if something remains and what if that thing is looking over me and looking after me what what does that what does that put in my body how does that make me feel and it felt right for me and I was like cool I feel protected these are the best women I know they're not here and I fucking miss them but I feel them like I can hear them in my mind and I can hear them so clearly and I I think like I the only way I can honor them and the other people I've lost is by trying and just living I I this the only way is to live because it's the hugest gift and look the only reality is and the only real thing in this world is that we're all gonna die 100 and that's kind of comforting in the end like you're like yeah it's gonna end so what am i gonna do in the time that i'm here is just live just fucking live mate a role that you would love to play if you could pick it out of the sky i'd love to play like some someone like i would love to play like a queen or something but like a queen going through something not just like a queen like a queen like doing something i would also love to play a real person again you would because you said after whitney that you wouldn't want to do that again i i would love to play someone real again to try it in a different way not as not as like aggressive and yeah like i i would love to do that i'm actually like in a space right now i don't know what the next thing is my whole thing was like to subvert expectations with the roles I do I kind of came in with a bit of a chip on my shoulder of like I'm a black woman I'm working class I don't want to do what people expect me to do I've kind of let that go now I feel like I have nothing to prove but I still hold on to that thing of like what is something that is exciting what is something I haven't done before how can I display a different part of myself and tell a different story and and also what I love about projects is it allows you to talk about something real going on so like there's this balance between wanting to entertain but also wanting to create a platform in which people can discuss real things in their lives and I've done a few projects now where I feel like there's space for me when they come out to do that and I think I want to do something really fun i want to do something like where i kick butt come on i want to yeah because you have your new film i love boosters coming out of me yeah yeah i'm excited man it's it's a crazy film is it good yeah it's really good it's it's it's really charming um it's boots riley who is um he's like this incredible autos surrealist madman scientist guy who's just really really fucking smart and the cast is incredible it's Kiki Palmer it's Taylor Page it's Poppy Liu it's Demi Moore Wow Vicky Stanfield and it's it's just bright and explosive and funny and yeah Do you think that 11 year old girl who's doing that No fucking way You know what I mean if someone said to that 11 year old girl now like hey by the way you're going to be doing great company but not To be fair can I just say casting back to what in my 20s or late teens watching Made in Chelsea, would I?

1:10:32Is it opposite? Is it Jamie? Let's go. No. I didn't think that actually. Big honour. But if you, back to that 11 year old, when you work really hard and you put the hard graft in, which people don't see, they see the end result, right? You go, man, let's go. And with you having grafted from 11, Yeah. The most part of you now just go, come on. We're like, we're getting there. We're getting there. We're doing it. I think it happened actually like this year where I went shopping and I saw a pair of jeans that cost like 300 quid and I bought them. Come on. That's the moment. I was like, no. And I still got an Uber home.

1:11:20What? Shut up. What?

1:11:25What do you think you are? Maybe open the window on the way home. That's good. There's this thing I feel secure in terms of like the freedoms and the fruits of being able to kind of have the life that I dreamt of having. Obviously, if I'm lucky enough to have children, that would change. You know, no Ubers and probably no jeans. But like that thing makes me go, wow, you've made a career out of pretending to be other people. That does blow my mind. But you made a career out of something that you wanted to do. Yeah. You, you made, you made something that you wanted to do into something that you can live to do.

1:12:05That is, and actually I, I, if there is, I think now I've had my baby, right. It's like, I always think like, what advice would I give to him? And I say, one advice is like, think long-term, like really do think long-term the sort of thoughts and process and things that you want to do today and tomorrow yeah remember that in a long time yeah you know so you think long term and the other thing is find something you love and try and do that yeah and I know that's not easy for everyone and I get that's hard but try find something you try and experiment you know I think it's about you know I was kind of lucky enough I guess to fall across this at an early age but man like finding something you love my mum always used to go like you you know you can act even if you're not an actor she was like having some like the importance of becoming an actor who's well known and stuff yeah that's one thing but you can act in a community theater you can do the thing you love I'm lucky enough that I was able to convert that into something that became I guess my own small business but finding the things you love even if you're working because it's not necessarily about going like yeah take the thing you love and then turn it into something amazing and become this like leader in in whatever thing that is it's going find the things you love that complement the life you want to live yeah like you know I I feel like obviously it's hard to imagine it but if I was working at a different job it may be in an office or or working for someone I I don't know what I would have been doing I like to think that I would still on my off time be doing the thing that you love doing doing community theater or joining a choir like those things that enrich your life yeah but also as you said before you know you came from like humble beginnings right and and you you've worked and grinded and you're a sort of true example yeah of that like hard work and commitment and grind yeah you can really achieve like amazing you can do you can do it anything yeah you really can you it takes time and a lot of sacrifice like I'm not saying I've sacrificed huge amounts.

1:14:13I have for myself personally, but the limitations, I hear you said that, it's kind of crazy what you can achieve if you put your mind to it. And we limit ourselves in our mind. We do. We can never do that. No. We can never go and make... I can't do that. I'm from Walthamstow. I have no access. I can't do that. No, no, it doesn't exist. It really doesn't. The lies we tell ourselves, the lies we are told don't exist. there is always a way I love it we like to end the conversation with eight quick fire questions alright then are you ready for this? yeah go on what's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

1:14:51it's only a game show it's only a game show that's a good one I don't think anyone's ever said that to me I like that it did make me smile yeah I like it best compliment anyone's ever given you? I'm proud of you the best? yeah what scares you most about yourself? probably quick fire temper. Really? Yeah. Apart from today, when was the last time you cried? When did I last cry? I think, oh, this morning. Because, because my boyfriend was telling me I've got a dinner to go to and he was like, you need to talk to the people at the dinner and I was like, yeah, but it's hard and he was like, no, you've got to do it and then I started crying and then, yeah.

1:15:33What's something you can't let go of? Hope. Great answer. What's your guilty pleasure? Pizza. What's your topping on the pizza? It's not that guilty. The toppings, I just love margarita and extra margarita. Huh? Just put a margarita on a margarita. Like an extra margarita pizza on top? No, I just mean cheese. You just mean cheese. I don't know why I'm such a liar. Okay. What turns you off? Lies. Dishonesty. what turns you on vulnerability what do you like most about yourself

1:16:16I feel like I'm quite smart I agree Naomi thank you you've been incredible thank you so much for coming on great company and everyone needs to go watch a new film I Love Boosters coming out of May you're the best you're the best

1:16:37Do I want that dia, that dia, that dia