RACHEL STEVENS: WHY I STRUGGLE TO OPEN UP

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2:04Hello everyone. My name is Jamie Lang and this is Great Company.

2:12Hello Jemima. Hello Mr Lang. Sir. Listener, that's what he asked me to call him. Listener, just for note, that is absolutely a lie. You don't have to call him sir. It is a complete and utter lie and hopefully by now you'll know me a little bit and you'll know that's not true I do make a bow to me that is you her as well that is the most aggressive makes me bow kisses hands my god you're really backing me into a corner none of that is true Jemima is the wonderful producer of this show oh yes and this is Jamie and I'm the host he's the awful presenter I'm the awful presenter of this show I'm so excited okay just a little bit of warning if you are excited for today bringing that energy when the guest arrives is gonna it's probably gonna be a bit jarring because it made me a bit I felt a bit jarred I felt jarred and I'm not even the guest I'm so excited 8 year old me if she knew that today was happening she would die and I'm glad she doesn't know because then I wouldn't be here today that's a bit meta that was very meta why don't you explain who it is then it's Rachel Stevens from S Club 7 or S Club as they were latterly known latterly known we're very very excited about this Rachel I have met a few times have you on my journey And I've always kind of...

3:28On your journey. On my journey. What is wrong with me today? On my journey throughout life. But I have... I was a huge fan of S Club 7. S Club Juniors I love. She wasn't in S Club Juniors. I mean, there's never been anything like that since. Like a pop band being like, let's just have a mini me version. Yeah, there wasn't. But it was very good. I used to... I loved it. I was obsessed with Frankie. He's now Frankie Bridge. Oh, yeah. And Rochelle was in there. Was Rochelle in there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I only really remember Frankie for whatever reason. I wonder why. I don't really know why. We're very excited and she's coming on, which is going to be amazing.

4:02Before we get into that, you sat me down to have a conversation about my hosting skills, which I want to bring to the episode because I think it's important to voice it because we're very honest. So what did you say to me? What did I? Actually, let me get my notes. Well, I can tell you what you said. Yes. You said... We had an off mic producer chat. I said, this is not for people to hear. You said that what I do is I can lean into light, I can lean into dark, I can lean into funny, I can lean into emotional, all the different things. But what I have done maybe recently perhaps, I've been leaning too much into sort of the emotional side of things and not keeping it as light as I normally do.

4:40You've been making yourself a bit 2D in my opinion. Well, not too 2D, but you kind of, you enjoy the deeper chats. And sometimes you're so good at making people laugh And being fun and light As well as the depths And sometimes I feel like you've maybe forgotten To go into the light I think, you know, I'm going to be honest as well I think that I was I had a little bit of exhaustion So perhaps I was leaning more into that side Because it was easier for me to lean into that And it's on your mind Totally on my mind So I'm not going to do that, hopefully I think with Rachel, however just going to say before we start is that I feel that having read the notes and understand her so I think perhaps we might lean into that side Yeah, well she's been in the spotlight so for those of you who don't know Rachel Stevens was in a band called S Club 7 in the late 90s, early noughties a band which I adored but they were all really young when they were in the band and it was a TV show it was a massive machine was S Club 7 they were put together by Simon Fuller who made the Spice Girls and there was a TV show there were loads of albums they were on top of the pops they were everywhere and they will have been very PR trained from a really young age I had the call with Rachel she is so lovely but I also think maybe this kind of interview could be a bit nerve wracking as well I am a scary interviewer you're terrifying that's very true okay make her call you sir by the way good advice for hosting I like it I think it's very important so I appreciate that and I will change don't pop yourself in a box Jamie I mean, you're so much more than just that box.

6:18Thanks, Jemima. Okay, are you ready for this? Am I ready? Okay. I wish I had a Cess Club 7 lyric to say there. I've never had a dream come true until... I reached for the stars? No, until Rachel... Is that steps? No, reach for the stars. Yeah. Okay. Also, guys, before we start, if you are listening to this and you enjoy this podcast, please click that subscribe button because it does us absolute wonders for the show and it means we can keep getting amazing guests, keep getting, having great conversations and hopefully you can keep enjoying it. Okay, are you ready? Yes. Please welcome to the podcast, Rachel Stevens.

6:59Hi, I'm Rachel Stevens and I'm great company. S Club 7 had this very sort of pristine image and then the boys. Oh my God. They were called smoking weed. I know, can you even believe it? Bliff Club 7 Bliff Club 7 How great That is Unbelievable I heard that you were in Sony Yeah And you were going to see your brother I had no money I went in and he was working in the canteen I went in there for a free lunch And you were spotted I got approached by these two producers who were putting together this solo project and they approached me and said Can you sing? And I mean honestly I mean that was Can I?

7:44these two producers come up and say, we like the look of you. We would love you to be in this band. Yes. What do you say then? I was like, yeah. I mean, I was very, I was always someone who was like very driven, very determined, very, and any opportunity that came my way, I would like go for it. But I hadn't sort of grown up going to drama school, auditioning, being this sort of, I just loved music and I loved singing. But you loved being on stage? Well, I never really was on stage before that. Not in school or anything like that? No, I was always the tree. Or like, you know what I mean? I was, honestly, I was...

8:21Rachel, get out of here! Sorry, you were not the tree in the corner. I was, I promise you. I was never the lead in the play. I was quite... Yeah, I really wasn't. So I literally learnt on the job. I mean, I... Sorry, hang on a second. so you had no dreams or aspirations to be a singer oh I did you did okay oh my god yeah fine they were kind of like they weren't I don't know I went to like ballet when I was little and you know the dance and I loved making up dance routines with my friend you know all that kind of thing and I would sing into my I literally would sing all the time and there was always music in our house and I remember one of the my dad really was passionate about music so we used to like go out and drive together and listen to music and so I was always around it and I was always singing and yeah my god I dreamed of being a pop star but it wasn't like I'm gonna be a pop star it was like I always loved fashion so I kind of I went to the fashion college and I was that was my plan I was like right I just want to get out and start working and making money and so I went out and got a job once I left uh the London College of Fashion and the job you know S Club kind of found me, well it did, not kind of, it did find me.

9:38It wasn't something that I went out, you know, I wasn't auditioning all the time and all that kind of thing. So you had these private dreams within you that you were like, oh I would love to do that, I'd love to be this pop star, but it wasn't something that you were really looking for. I guess someone comes up to you and asks you that. Well I don't know, would everyone say yeah? I don't know. Would everyone try and do it and go for it? I think a lot of people, extroverted people will, but you sort of say, oh I was a bit introvert and things like that. I'm a total contradiction in every sense of the word.

10:07I don't want to say it. I don't want to say it. Are you getting that from our conversation? I know. Trust me, it's challenging. But it's amazing because I think it was a different time, for sure. I understand that. But it's an amazing thing to happen to an individual. It's very unique because normally, especially that time when bands and boy bands or girl bands or mix bands or whatever it was were coming together, it was like auditions and it was very constructed. Totally. Your one is, in the nicest way, a complete fluke. Sliding doors moment. Sliding doors moment. Totally. That you were in there at the right time at that moment.

10:41It was meant to be. It's like it found me, for sure. When something like that happens, I imagine. So if I was going to auditions and I was really trying for it and I was auditioning on the circuit, I was going to live lots of different things and I wasn't getting jobs, I wasn't getting jobs, but then I suddenly got one. I was like, oh my God. I would feel this real sense of, wow, I have done this. if you have just picked up in Sony that would give me a sense of almost imposter syndrome because I'm like well should I be here you know that's what it would do to me a little bit yeah did that happen to you oh my god yeah always I've always had that um god yeah I I still I mean imposter syndrome is such a god I don't even know where to start with it yes I did I mean I I was you know because the rest of the um the rest of the band got into the band through auditions um and yeah so they'd come from like Sylvia Young and they'd come from singing the like like Joe had been on the singing circuit for a long time and had been in bands and Brad had grown up with his producer parents and Paul and Hannah were um National Youth Music Theatre and Tina went to dance college so everyone had come from this world so I kind of didn't you know and also I didn't really know my place at the time didn't know where I fit I you know at school I didn't really know I was never in the like I didn't really ever feel like I fitted in no so I actually then got into the band and I got to the point where I was like wow I found and this was at a point where my family had kind of broken apart and I was like it gave me purpose it gave me structure it gave me my god it was like beyond exciting it fueled like all my dreams that I'd had it was like so many things um but yeah imposter syndrome has been a thing throughout my whole life and even obviously today I think I don't know does any of us not have imposter syndrome I don't know I think imposter syndrome is a really um interesting thing and I've yeah I've like I would say more than you how can I say more than you but I've really battled with because I came from a reality show.

12:50And man, when I first started doing the reality show, I thought I was the shit. I was like, I was like, no, honestly, for the first year, I was like, I think I'm the coolest person in the world. And then we won a BAFTA. How old were you when you went into it? I was 22. And we won a BAFTA. And I got on stage. And I don't think I've ever cheered as loudly winning a BAFTA. And I got on stage, and I've said this before, and I held this BAFTA, I looked into the crowd, and I suddenly saw Olivia Colman and Benedict Cumbatch and Graham Norton and all these people and Dawn French and I was like, oh my God.

13:27And I suddenly realised that I was just a reality star and that I hadn't worked for it. I hadn't been to auditions. I hadn't sung. There was no talent. And I suddenly, this wave of imposter syndrome came over. Just in that moment, for the first time. For the first time. after about a year and I was suddenly oh god I suddenly realised exactly you know where I sort of was and it took a long time to shake it yeah did you feel like you could share that with your other your friends who were in the same position are you kidding me no ways I didn't say anything to anyone right and so then and I still get it today I mean if someone comes up and wants to take a photo of me and it's in a public place I still go into myself oh god oh my god because I feel that it's such a weird thing I don't feel like I, I don't know, I don't feel like I should be having it.

14:21Yeah, I think that's the thing, isn't it? With any sort of feelings of vulnerability, we question everything and we, it's like we're not, I think when we validate our feelings, we can then go, okay, that makes sense why I feel that way. And that's okay. And I think being in a place where you feel like you can share it and go, you know what, I've been having, you know, I think that really validates what we're feeling. but the more we kind of squash it all down, the more we're like in our heads and that's when everything takes over. And I think imposter syndrome is just spawned from not feeling good enough.

14:56You know, whatever that feeling is, we're not enough in some way. For those people listening right now, I think they have imposter syndrome and whatever they're doing, maybe they're going for a job interview, maybe they're going for a stage audition, whatever it is. If I was your daughter sitting across from you and I was saying to you right now, I feel I have this feeling where I don't feel good enough before I got this thing. What would you say to her? I would probably, well, I would say, I'm so sorry you're feeling that way. I'm really sorry you're feeling that way because that's a really horrible feeling.

15:27I think through therapy, I've learned that, well, just through life, like empathy is the most powerful thing. I think when someone is feeling a certain way or they share a vulnerability with you to be able to go, I'm so, I hear you and I'm sorry you're feeling that way can I do anything I don't know just really hearing them I think gives you know when I've really realized from parenting when my say my daughter my youngest comes out of school and you get all the shit they've had you know they're all being that the best they can be at school and then you they come out of school they're tired and all of their like emotions come out at you their school bag gets chucked at you everything um and you've come I've you know we've come from our busy days whatever we stress we're carrying the minute I've learned really learned this the minute I say to her oh Minz I'm sorry you're feeling really um I really hear her it just diffuses everything and it's quite a powerful thing that's really good advice yeah that is really good advice so you know keeping it simple yeah that's really good sometimes when I try to over talk another thing I've learned through therapy is really let your child talk instead of you talk at them so allowing them to get everything they're feeling out i should do that with my wife honestly i should do that with i should do that yeah i talk at her a lot and she's like just listen i'm like oh okay now i get it fix things we with the people we love don't we we we just want to fix things and go what can i do to help you what do you need you know do you think you've overcome imposter syndrome now oh god no oh no no no really even though being in the band being as successful as it was, doing what you've done, your achievements that you've had, you feel like it's still there?

17:12Yeah. And, you know, doing something like this today triggers my stuff a lot. Why? Right, because... Hang on a sec. Can I just... I'm going to give you a moment for yourself. Okay. Rachel Stevens coming into the office today. Everyone's excited. Everyone's excited. Everyone. Ben is... Ben's normally not in on these. Ben is sitting here. Everyone upstairs is beyond excited. because that's because you're coming in. Because everyone not only loves your music that you've created in your band, in your solo career, but the stuff that you don't and what you represent as a person. And what's interesting is that everyone shows that towards you, but you still can't feel it yourself.

17:52I've done a lot of... I think I've done a lot of growing in the last few years. But like I said, because I do these... I have these conversations so sporadically, I think. I think it just... I don't know what I'm trying to say. It's not, I know what you mean. It doesn't come naturally because you're having these conversations sort of all over the place. So when you start sharing... Well, publicly, I guess. Yeah, of course. Because if you're sharing these sort of emotions, normally you're in a room with a therapist. You're with your closest friends. But I think it is... And we're strangers and we're sharing it.

18:30But I love it too. I love conversation. I love sharing. I love, I think conversation, being open, talking about things is really powerful. And I love that. But yeah, it's one of my challenges. And sometimes I find it easier than other times. But I'm learning to lean into it and sit in the, you know, sit in the ship. Sit in the ship right now. Well, I want to say, even as we continue, thank you for doing this with us. Because you're amazing and this is amazing. So to let you know. Thank you. Why did the band break up?

19:10It started with, so Paul left for his own personal reasons, which we all supported. And then obviously the dynamics change and we'd been together for, we crammed a lot of stuff in. You know, we weren't actually really together for that many years, but we crammed like 10 years worth of stuff into four or five years. And, you know, I think everybody, well, I can only speak for myself. I mean, I probably would have stayed longer in it. Would you? I probably would have, but there was, you know, everyone's got to be really in it together. And, you know, everyone had their own individual reasons for wanting to move on and try new things.

19:55And, you know, so you have to support that. and it was just time. And I think, you know, you look back at lots of different bands and it kind of happens that way. One leaves, then it kind of, you know, it kind of happens in a very similar way, doesn't it? In lots of different bands. It's interesting that that happens because you kind of, the winning formula, I always think, is sticking together. And as soon as you're right, as soon as one person goes, the whole dynamic changes. You're a powerhouse together, aren't you? If you're a team, any team. Because you were S Club 7 and then you had to rebrand as S Club, didn't you?

20:31Which is odd in itself. And then slowly these things. When it does finally stop, is there a sense of sadness? Is it a sense of relief? What do you feel at that point when it finishes?

20:43It was just so weird to be every day together working on this incredible thing that's like a machine. like go, go, go to then knowing, you know, it's going to stop, but then it just stops. Like that? Well, it did. Yeah. We were promoting our last single. So we were doing the rounds at all the TV shows. We had our last performance. It's quite hard to, I found it quite hard to comprehend it. Yeah. And then we just all went our separate ways. But I think that shows, I can't, obviously can't speak for anyone else and we've touched on it since a little bit but not much but it I think it shows a sense of where we were in our mental health in our headspace that we didn't go guys let's all um let's let's do something to I mean yeah it was just literally a hard stop it's crazy it's mad it's like being on a treadmill and then suddenly stopping it and saying okay what next and your adrenaline is at a certain place and then you suddenly have to figure things out it's kind of a bit of a blur now looking back at it I heard what was interesting is that you said and this is this sort of made me really think is that when the band you finished the band finished you all just got in your cars yeah and went separate ways and that was it and that's mad and it's not one of these because when you sort of think of bands and music and things like that you think that it's a group of people that have come together it's not like that you guys were just sort of put together as young kids we were but we had such a it is really interesting that we had the connection we had considering we were put together in that way but I think we were very strategically put together you know So Simon Fuller just had the Spice Girls and that was a very different, you know, so he parted ways with them and then was like, right, I'm going to form this band.

22:47And I think it was very strategic. You launched your solo career.

22:55And firstly, how does that work? Just sort of break it down for me. Does someone come to you and say, hey, Rachel, I want to manage you for your solo career? How does all of that work? And how do you even understand how to... I mean, for me, right, it's like starting a business. It's like, who's telling you these things? Who's helping you with this stuff? Who's helping you with the financials? Who's doing all the contracts? How does it work? Yeah, that's a good question. I always knew I wanted to just keep going. I didn't know what it meant to... That's your drive. Yeah. um I've yeah but really probably I should shoulda coulda woulda I kind of I think where I was mentally perhaps needed to just take a break but then how do you do that I didn't I didn't you know I had this amazing opportunity and it was so incredibly exciting and um I had this amazing song and I just kept going I just kept going and that's what I've realized from lots of learning and therapy that I just always kept going and kept just, yeah.

24:05Why reflecting on it do you think you should have stopped? What were you feeling at the time that you didn't even realise but you're now reflecting back and realised? Well, I think I should have stopped. I not necessarily should have stopped but should have... Should have been more present and conscious of what was going on. But I didn't know how I wasn't capable of that at that point. I just kept going. So yeah, and in hindsight, I mean, it's easier said than done. Were you worried it was going to stop? Is that the thing? Because I think a lot of the times that happens is when you have so much success and you're in a band that is so big and a TV show that is so big and then that sort of stops.

24:42You think, well, it's all going to go in a second. So I need to keep going. Otherwise, I'm going to be forgotten. And someone who maybe suffers with anxiety, that fear of abandonment, fear of loss sort of seeps and you go, okay, well, I got to keep going all the time. Yeah, and it wasn't conscious. It was just, and also at the same time with that, what an incredible thing. I got to go into this whole solo project and how amazing was that, you know? It's amazing. But I had to do a lot of learning on the job. Yeah. I heard that the song Some Girls, Jerry Halliwell Wanted. Yes. Yeah. Try and lean into this Apparently she She wasn't happy She wasn't happy Okay This is your uncomfy moment So lean into As Rachel shakes her head So what happened in that moment?

25:43Someone says Oh here's this song We have this song But someone wants it I had no idea she wanted it Really? At the time No I only found that Like later on down the line Really? Yeah Does that happen sometimes With songs where artists are all after it and it basically goes, they decide or whoever decides it goes to someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's just a pool of writers, especially at that time. There was like a pool of like, a pool of writers. And so Kathy Dennis, for instance, wrote LAX, Toxic, Can't Get You Out Of My Head. And one other one, All In The Same Weekend. So, you know, I guess the songs can then, they then go right who's this going to go to and um yeah and so so you you get pitched these songs and you go yeah I really like that I want I want that one as well and so then there's sort of there's some sort of battle for it because I also heard that um LAX Britney Spears wanted I heard that too but years later so at the time I had no idea unbelievable you're taking all these songs Yeah, see you later.

26:52Yeah. That's hilarious. Yeah. I know, it's crazy, isn't it? When you're singing songs solo and you've been in a band and then you're suddenly doing a solo career, what's it like going on stage for the first time without your bandmates around you? Oh, my God, a mixture of... I remember my first show was Top of the Pops and that was always, obviously, the big one. oh my god I was so excited but so exposing but I had my girl I had my dancers with me so it felt more exciting than anything actually I mean I always got nervous though I mean that was just a given for me always got nervous but that's that's I feel like nerves are a really good thing it's just learning how to channel them which I needed to to learn.

27:40S Club reunited. Yep. how did that all happen? So we were 25 years we got an email from Simon saying how would you guys feel about celebrating this 25 years and everyone was just really on board and then we sort of set up our WhatsApp group and everything sort of grew from there and we started planning and sort of creating it all Was it very exciting when it started to the whispers started to happen yeah it was it was exciting but yeah it was exciting yeah it was but you know it was a really awful moment because Paul lost his life and he's part of the band and I can't even imagine the grief that you were going through but also public grief how do you again navigate your way through that um we we just took time to be together and everything all the plans obviously stopped and we just took time to just you know feel how we felt and um remember him and yeah just lots of coming together lots of coming together and all you can do in those moments is just feel and share and you know there's nothing else you can do and actually what was really beautiful was the tour became such a gorgeous tribute to him so it was so lovely and then once we kind of got around to processing what had happened it kind of became a really beautiful memory of him and something amazing to share with the fans as well so it it was it was beautiful how it it all kind of turned out for him to sort of tribute him.

29:40Can you tell me about Paul? What was he like? Oh my God, he was such a character. So quirky, eccentric, fun. Just a brilliant energy to be around. And so it was so gorgeous getting to sort of spend time with him again in the last sort of before the tour. because I really saw him as the man he is now, just sensitive, really gentle, lovely soul. So, yeah. But totally quirky and eccentric and bonkers. He was just brilliant.

30:25To sort of ask a personal question, your parents obviously had got divorced. My parents got divorced when I was eight and that was really tricky for me and I imagine the same for you. And then you obviously had a separation yourself. And that's really tough. So how do you navigate your way through those things? Let yourself feel. Surround yourself with people that fill you up and that you love and that you feel like you can really have a safe space with. Do things that feel good and give yourself a break. I think it's really, it's hard to sort of answer that in any other way, I think, because every situation is different and you just kind of muddle your way through it because feelings are so messy, aren't they?

31:12You just kind of heartbreak and any of these feelings are painful. So you just kind of muddle your way through. But I think, yeah, surrounding yourself with people you love and looking after yourself and taking care of yourself is all you can do until you're through it. is there and I don't even know why I'm relating it to this in any way but when let me put it on myself for once um when I was doing something like Made in Chelsea right I never really think it was going to end I was like it's going to be like this forever and I think when you um get married or whatever the same thing sort of happens well this is forever and sometimes that doesn't happen and you know for lots of different reasons that doesn't happen was it the same with you as well when you go through S Club and you think this is going to just be forever and then you go into your relationship a little bit and it's like well this is going to be forever and it ends it's hard because suddenly it's like well what's happening here why is this just finishing?

32:15Actually no the opposite for me. Really? Yeah the opposite for me because I think when my parents separated it really shook my world and it was like the rug had been pulled from beneath my feet. Not just the separation but where I was at, I guess, me being me, my relationship with my dad, everything that I thought was sacred and real and true to me was kind of pulled away overnight. So from then on, and I think things that I went through leading up to that, I kind of learned to build these kind of protections so high that it's taken me so many years to like knock them down. So I kind of, I think my protection was never get, allow myself to get too, too close.

33:11Let my, you know, never let my. Your guard down. Yeah. Never let my guard down and never get. Yeah. And I think that a lot of that stems from the relationship breakdown with my dad. because I absolutely just idolized him growing up and then it kind of changed overnight so I think that sense of oh my god that's when I had that moment of oh my god what and then I think from then on um everything from then and then going into the band everything was just like no no just keep going and just keep going and don't let anyone in too much because you can't have that heartbreak again. That makes complete sense.

33:54And so I think when you do that, you isolate yourself from real, real love and connections and you keep everything very small. And I did that for a very long time. So, and it's only really in the last few years that I've kind of, no, God, it's been a years and years and years of trying to unravel all of that and move through that. I'm going to give you a high five. Well done. What's that tattoo there, by the way? Oh my God, please don't. They're the worst things in the world. Live a little. Live a little. Don't worry, I've got a venture on the other side just in case I forget. They're honestly shocking.

34:36Divorce is a really tricky thing. And I went through it with my parents when I was eight years old and it was never really discussed. Right. No, it was discussed. Suddenly they're just not together. I know. when you said that divorce is hard it is really hard yeah but I think when it's I think it can be made a little easier when you totally talk to your kids and help them understand and as they then get older they're like oh okay but to then to have that without no sense of discussion or conversation because back then they thought it was easier yeah we won't say anything because it's easier well it is it's like that thing of you know there's so many moments with my kids where I could just go oh do you know what just for a quiet you know it's a different situation but it is sometimes easier yeah like you're saying to just skim over I've got my own emotions I'm dealing with I'm dealing with all of this oh my god the kids it's painful and you want to you know you want to protect your kids so fiercely as a parent you just want to protect them and how do you have that conversation with them I mean I was so scared having that conversation with my kids it was just we both were and we planned it to precision i mean we were very lucky that we had therapy together of how you know some advice and guidance how to tell our then good on you guys like 11 and eight nine you know it's like it's really challenging what do you say in that moment um well we made sure we did it in the morning because so they weren't they weren't tired and we'd like planned like breakfast together and then we made sure that we were with them for the rest of the day and we just said honestly it feels like a little bit like a blur now but I remember one of the things we said is we always are going to be your mom and dad we're never ever going to um we're always going to be uh together we're always going to be there for you we love you that you know that those were the things we were sort of affirming more than anything but other than that it was just almost vomiting isn't it you just you have to it's it's almost it's almost worse I imagine than the actual breakup because it's just like these are the people that we're trying to look after and protect and everything well breakup in any way is so painful because you never want anyone you're just so scared of hurting anyone but when you have kids in that situation it's just like it's so yeah painful and you question everything

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38:46You did mention that you said that you look back at S Club 7 and it just fills you with anxiety because you'd look at it and say, well, I was just anxious all the time. Yeah. Is that fair for me to say or no? Yeah, no, it is. I mean, there were lots of wonderful, really wonderful times, lots of amazing times. But yeah, I've suffered with anxiety all my life, though. So it's something that I've had to work on throughout my whole life. And so, yeah, I was always anxious, not always anxious, but I did have a lot of anxiety. And I overthink everything. I worry. Yeah. I think anyone listening now knows exactly what you're saying.

39:31Anxiety is one of the, it's one of life's cruel lessons. It is, my journey with anxiety, probably similar to yours, has not been that great. And for many years, I just tried to suppress it and put it away. And then actually, the way to sort of attack anxiety is to accept it. Yeah. And it takes a long time. Feel it, accept it. I think anxiety is feelings that have just been, have not expressed feelings, you know. And you talk about it the same, like you didn't have that growing up. So a lot of us don't have that, you know. Feelings are kind of, can be quite scary, can't they? And I think trying to parent, especially for our parents and the sort of past generations, They didn't have the education that we have now about mental health or the access to therapy or all these different therapies that are out there.

40:28So we've all grown up in this kind of like suppressed culture. I completely agree with you. And we're trying to break the cycle, aren't we, with our kids now? I mean, completely, but we have phones and social media and everything. It's honestly a nightmare. How do you now channel your nerves? Because I think that's the one thing that people suffer with so much. And actually what it does a lot of the time, I think with nerves is it stops us from doing stuff because, oh, I can't possibly do that because outside of my comfort zone, I'm too nervous to do that. How do you channel your nerves now in a positive way in order to make yourself get over those things?

40:59I think it's constant. Well, for me, myself, I'm constantly like working on myself, really questioning whether you're saying no to doing something because you're too scared of it or whether it's not right for you at that time or whatever. sort of knowing how to set boundaries with things um because it is easy to just go oh god no that feels too exposing or scary or i totally get it i i for so long suffered with so many nerves and then i just sort of starting to have um this attitude where i was just like screw it yeah i'm just gonna go and do it rather than just yeah exactly just not think about it and just do it because Or was it like a fake it till you make it kind of thing?

41:44I think a little bit. But I think, because I, you know, if we, you know, your book, for example, Finding My Voice, which I love the title. I think it's amazing. Surely that must have been so nerve wracking for you to write, especially because you're someone who tensers up when you have to talk about certain things and stuff like that. How was the sort of journey of writing it? It was a bit of everything. It was really empowering at times. It was really challenging in the fact that sometimes I was quite resistant to writing it.

42:19It made me feel really vulnerable. It made me feel excited. I mean, so many different feelings around it. But it really was such an incredible learning process. I mean, I think whenever you're doing something new for the first time, you learn as you go. And then after, I don't know if you find this, after you're like, oh, okay, things kind of slot into place. But while you're doing something for the first time, it's new. So you're just kind of finding your way with it. Do you find that? I know exactly what you mean. What were you resistant to, though? You know, I think personally, I was, you know, in the last few years, I've moved house three times.

42:56I've, you know, I've got loads of things going on with the kids, work, lots of different things. And I think it was sort of going into a place that felt uncomfortable, maybe. I think that's what I was resistant to but it was I learnt so much you know you learn I feel so lucky to have the opportunity to do it because you're just constantly learning all the time I think a lot of us like if I bring myself back to being 19 years old my god I oh my god what are you like a 19 year old probably very similar fucking idiot like in so many ways I was trying to be cool I was trying to be this I was trying to be that I was trying to be my god everything you think everyone expects of you and more yeah and I wasn't even in the public eye I wasn't in one of the biggest bands like that is the I think your teens and your 20s is the hardest place in your life to navigate who you are because we're trying to figure out everything about us and you have to do that while being on show so therefore you're so right what you do is you pick a role you go okay I'm going to be this and then you go for it and that's maybe not you, but then you're stuck being this person.

44:11And, you know, everything just got kind of layered, layered, layered, layered, layered. And I just kind of, and it kind of worked for a while because it was like, you know, we have our protections, don't we? That's what we do to protect our sort of vulnerabilities or the ways we feel very exposed. And so it worked for a while. I was like comfortable sitting in that space to the point where as I was growing, there was so much going on in there. And it was like, okay, this is not serving me in any way now. So it was like unraveling all of that stuff, you know. But if I, what role do you think you were playing?

44:45Because I've heard you say you've looked back at interviews of yourself when you were that age and you go, that's just not me. Yeah, I don't even recognize my voice, which is really interesting. It goes back to that thing of finding my voice. I feel like I just was in there, but just didn't sort of, and I don't mean in every element of my life. Obviously I had people that, my small little group of people that I kind of allowed in, who I felt like I could really be myself with. You just didn't have your voice at all? Well, I did, but I just struggled in the public sense. The public sense of I played that, you know, nice, things became very much about my looks and how I, you know, the outward, everything.

45:31And also at that time, everything was very, very surface. You know, it wasn't like it is now. where people really, you know, mental health wasn't a thing. People didn't really, like we were saying, still even at that point didn't talk about their feelings or anything like that. So everybody was seeing this shiny surface and it did, you know, like I said before, it felt safe for a while because it stopped any feeling of feeling exposed or really seeing, people seeing my vulnerability, I guess. You're so right. You were basically seen as a 2D person, not a 3D person. Yeah. it was all looks and this and shiny, like this shiny doll.

46:09Exactly, exactly. That's really tricky. Yeah, it kind of mimicked a lot of how I felt growing up as well. I was kind of the girl between two brothers and I was very much about, I was in a world where a lot of emphasis was put on looks and not about, you know, who you are, how do you feel, you know, being seen or being heard, that type of thing. Can I ask a really personal question? when when you grow up being in a band being in life and everyone just tells you all the time how pretty you are and god you're beautiful and all those kinds because that's what was showered on you all the entire time what does that do because one would expect that gives you a lot of confidence oh my god and this that but it feels like it did a little bit the opposite to you in some ways yeah i think yeah like you know like you said when someone gives you a compliment it's so lovely but I think if there's not that sort of foundation or outlet to be yourself or feel validated in your feelings all those things um I think it can a lot of outward affirmation is quite dangerous you know um and I really try having two girls myself to I think it's like I said lovely to compliment but it's also really affirming really listening to them really listening to their opinions really um conversation like just being really present to hear not just surface level not just surface level which is really challenging being where you know I've got a 13 year old now who is we're really struggling with because she's in that world of social media and TikTok and likes and all of those things and trying to have those conversations with my 13 year old is really is bringing up a lot of challenges you know to try and help her see how amazing she is inside and it's not just about the exterior you know I know exactly what you mean I'm just I was trying to figure it out it's exactly that it's so important growing up that we have that real sense of self and real that real sort of um yeah I know glowing bulb within us yeah that is confident foundation foundation that it doesn't really matter the outside stuff that's just the shell what's in the inside and if you just compliment someone on their shell oh my god this is oh you're so pretty but you don't actually get that in the corner so then everything is about looks yeah and so you become obsessive over it the whole time yeah and it and you and you become very you know we live in a world like that too we do live in a world where we're everything is you know we are judged from our external anyway aren't we um so yeah no it's um yeah it's really challenging

48:51I hope you feel like this hasn't been a therapy session because I feel like we've gone really deep together. We did go really deep. Loved it. Okay, you ready for your questions? Yes. Okay, what's a saying or phrase that always makes you smile or cheers you up? Can I make you a cup of tea? Fantastic. Yeah. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? So recently I went on this retreat called The Body Camp. I don't know if you've heard of it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we all had to do this really lovely thing where you have your own book for the week and you have to write about the... After a few days of sort of getting to know each other, you write what you think of the person next to you and you just pass it around the table.

49:32There's 20 of us. I took a picture of it because it was just some of the things they said were so gorgeous. Okay, it has been great to get to know you. You are open, honest and authentic. You have a calming energy and are a pleasure to be around. How sweet is that? That's unbelievable. Isn't that a lovely thing though that they got us to do that? because it's so rare that you really, well, I love to compliment people, but we don't, as a rule. I agree. It's so nice. Isn't it? It's so nice. That's everything what I like as well. What scares you most about yourself? Going deep sometimes. And one of the, publicly, and one of the quotes that really, really resonates me is that we're not scared of our inadequacies.

50:20We're scared of our power. And it really, really resonates with me. Can I, what do you, just so I understand, just for people, what are you scared of? Are you scared people will judge? Are you scared of people of yourself? Why are you so afraid sometimes to share publicly? Are we going deep again? Yeah, we are. I've gone, I don't know why. We're going deep again. I'm so sorry. I just can't help myself. I can't. I love a deep combo. yeah um what why why do i yeah um i think i'm asking you to go deep when you don't like i'm gonna go deep no i do like i do like going deep it's just sometimes it's challenging publicly that's a good thing because it's important yes share an open conversation so i think it's brilliant i'm going to lean into it here we go um so um i think ask me the question again why do you find it so hard to go deep and be vulnerable in a public space um that wasn't the question i know it wasn't that wasn't the question are you that's it why you said you're scared to share i said what are you scared of are you scared people are going to judge you are you scared that you're not being perfect what is it i think i i learned as i was growing to uh not be too anything not be too big not be too because I think naturally I am I'm I think we all are actually we're all such full like incredible with so much individuals individual and I think sometimes you can have that message of it's too much for people and I think and I've really grown through that but it's um did someone say you were too much I'm sure they did at some point yeah I'm sure they did at some point but I think I did I I'm not gonna say I think I subconsciously learned that growing up that don't be too this don't be too that just be you know and I and I learned to sort of stay keep myself safe and small so to not be too big so yeah sense to protect yourself yes I get it because someone tells you to do that then you sort of stay in this little bubble yeah but if you have that messaging from a little girl it's something that you have to really sort of push through and I think a lot of us have have those messages and labels put upon us but it's learning that they're other people's stuff and they're not our stuff stuff that people project on us and once you learned it it's very hard to unlearn sometimes yeah oh god yeah it's really hard um when was the last time you cried and why um i cried laughing the other night well i kind of but a bit of both so my both my girls are had the most mammoth fight about hairbrush and it was like 11 o 'clock at night and i was so exhausted and my partner brendan was really exhausted and we were just chilling in bed and And all of a sudden, these two powerhouses came in and they were just having this most massive, I can't even begin to tell you what it was like, fight.

53:27And we were both like, we couldn't help, but like you either laugh or cry. This is too much. It was just hilarious, but also like, wow, this is just like. This is too much. I love it that you laugh. You were going to cry. Yeah. You had to laugh. Yeah. What's something you can't let go of? so I'm in this process of clearing out at the moment my clothes I'm constantly clearing out clothes I love clothes so much and I've realised that there's some things that are really hard to let go of very emotionally attached to my certain clothes and there's things that I haven't worn for ages I'm like right I'm going to donate that and then I'll try it on and then I go oh actually maybe so yeah I've got to be ruthless it's a good one I think everyone has that yeah I might wear this pink shirt that I've not worn for like 10 years again I bought could you not Sophie my wife can't I bought a Saint Laurent short sleeved pink shirt with round white circles on it I look like Mr.

54:35Blobby I thought I'd lost one so I bought another one is that the look you were going for I thought it was cool I thought I'd lost one so I bought another one they were£700 each This was in my days where I just was like spending any money I had. I've worn it once. Did Sophie hide it? I still keep it. She's trying to throw it out. I'm like, no, one day I'll wear it. And I've got two of them. But it's an emotional attachment. I get that. It's just the most ridiculous money I've ever spent on a stupid shirt. What's something you'd be embarrassed for people to know you'd like or want? I love the cheesiest love songs.

55:07I'm like the biggest soppy romantic. So give me a good power ballad. a good 80s power ballad which is your favourite? oh god the first one randomly that came to my mind was Jennifer Rush why did that come to my mind? what's that one? I know Jennifer Rush The Power of Love oh The Power of Love no no no what's it called? not the I am your lady little Celine Dion did I am your lady yes that one should we do a duet? I would it would honestly make my life If it would honestly... Shall we? Okay. Go on, Kate. We'll talk after this. Okay, we'll talk after. Okay. What turns you off? Judgmental people and narrow-minded people.

55:56Great one. What turns you on?

56:00What turns me on? What turns me on? Oh, lots of things. Food. Good one. Love food. yeah we'll go with that food's a great one what do you like most about yourself um that i'm loyal and um i am very passionate about taking myself out of my comfort zone and being the best version of myself like learning all the time to grow and be the best me i can be i had a great quote from aristotle which i actually was going to post and then i just thought it was too cheesy but it i love cheese you should always oh really okay good i'm all about it um uh the quote is you are what you repeatedly do therefore excellence should be a habit not an act say that again you are you are what you repeatedly do so excellence should be a habit not an act i loved it i was like yeah we just keep just keep being excellent all the time yeah make it a habit love that yeah it was a good one um bonus one favourite swear word um standard uh shit yeah a good one is always a good one oh fuck yeah it's always a good one strong yeah strong I liked it quickly you were FHM's sexiest women alive that's a flex that is a flex that is a flex That is insane, no?

57:36Yeah. Okay. No, it is. Listen, I really enjoyed that. It was fun. Yeah, you should. It was really fun, yeah. I think you should enjoy it. Listen, if I was dubbed world's sexiest man, I don't think I would let anyone ever... Everyone would know about it. As you walked in the office, it would be on the wall. It would be right there. and so it should be so it should be Rachel thank you for being so amazing thanks for having me I imagine this was quite tricky for you in lots of ways as you said a few times but you really have opened up we went deep Jamie you allowed me to and you I think trusted me in some ways to do an okay job so I really appreciate it and I want everyone to go and get your book and we'll leave all the links in the description and follow everything you're doing because you're incredible so thank you so much for coming on and I adore you.

58:29Aw, I adore you. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Just thank you. It's amazing!

58:38Wow. Loved it. Loved it. Loved it? She's so beautiful. Oh, okay, yeah. She's so beautiful. I was just staring at her the whole way like, wow! Okay, well, again, calm down, she's left, so let's all just chill out. As I expected, I think she felt a little bit nervous about opening up. I know, but at the end, in our eight questions. She did. She did. Rachel, if you're listening. I love you. Yeah, okay. Jemima loves you. But thank you so much for sharing. I understand that stepping outside of your comfort zone is quite tricky sometimes. And that felt very much outside your comfort zone. So thank you for sharing and being a part of this podcast.

59:17We think you're great and fab in every way. So thank you. Okay. I mean, we should probably wrap there. Let's wrap it up, boys and girls. Okay, you owls out there. I keep no not hoot hoot listen if you want to send us an email or write anything that you want about the show that you may like or may not like you can send us an email greatcompany at jampopproductions.co.uk everything is in the show description or you can slide into our DMs at greatcompanypodcast we're on TikTok Instagram and YouTube glorious okay we're going to see you next week for another episode of Great Company Great Company

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1:01:26Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanduel.com slash sportsbook. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Hello, everyone. We're Jamie and Sophie. You may remember us from Nearlyweds and then Newlyweds. But now, guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newlyweds is now Nearly Parents. and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood, I guess. Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying not to kill each other. Get ready for Nearly Parents, your favourite new podcast.