RIZZLE KICKS: MY ANXIETY PARALYSED ME

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1:15And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang. So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexed My Boss. Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Sexted. Be warned, it's a bit rude.

1:38Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Lang and this is Great Company.

1:47Hello Jemima. Jemima's laughing because she had a coughing fit before we started. We've cut that out. We've cut that out. How are you? Well, I've got a cough, for starters. How are you? I'm great. You should introduce yourself. I'm Jemima. The producer of the show. I am... Jim. The host. I have an awkward twitch of doing a Northern accent. It's because you're not Northern, maybe. I know. I know. You know when you're nervous, sometimes people hum. I do that. Yeah, and sometimes when I'm on edge, I'll just say a word in a really dodgy Northern accent. That's really funny. Why do we get awkward, do weird things?

2:24Why do we hum? Yeah, you're like, good morning. Actually, so many of these podcasts start like that It's because we're so nervous to be here, ladies and gents Okay, listen, big episode today because we have I'm all over the place, sorry I'm knocking Bumpy little table Very exciting because we have Rizzle Kicks on the show Rizzle Kicks Jordan and Stephen No, he's called Jordan, Stephen and then Harley We have Jordan and Harley Jordan and Harley They're back They're back Rizzle Kicks are back If you don't know who Rizzle Kicks are Where have you been? Where have you been? Huge, huge sort of duo band a few years ago.

3:02We're really, really big. We're really amazing. We're really exciting. Yeah. Ten years ago. Ten years. They grew to huge fame. And then Harley had severe anxiety and mental health. And then they decided to take a pause and they haven't been back. But they're finally back. They're re-recording music and they're going on tour. And they're coming on both of them. Yes. On the podcast, which is very exciting. Our first ever duo. First ever duo. What are you thinking? I'm very, very excited to have them in. I think what they did in terms of taking a step back from huge success at that time was very brave, but very modern ahead of their time.

3:40You know, Simone Biles back in 2021 in the Olympics in Tokyo said, you know, this is, I need to not compete. Like my head's not in a good place and got a lot of flack for that. They did that 10 years ago. Yeah, and I'm interested to find out what the sort of decision behind it was, because peak of fame, young, all these different things, and then taking a step back, it's kind of a wild decision. It's also our first ever duo. I know, so what should I do? We've got different chairs. Okay. Because we only have two of these chairs. Obviously, they're not going to be sitting on the same chair. Right, so they're going to be on different chairs.

4:13And you're also going to be on a different chair. Okay, fine. So for anyone who's watching YouTube, you're warning them that they're on different chairs. Yeah, if you're interested, go check it out. Different chairs, you've got that to look forward to. That's cool. and it is a duo so I have to point the conversation at an individual and not just ask broad sort of questions as a group I suppose and also so with your briefing doc that we I separated into three sections so there's a bit on Rizzle Kicks then a bit on Jordan then a bit on Harley Harley next to nothing out there about him yeah I think he's very private I don't think he has social media no so that's also going to be a thing where there's like Jordan we know a lot so there's a lot of things we can ask Jordan whereas Harley less so.

4:54But I also think because they're a duo, they're used to doing interviews as a two. And also Jordan has discussed addiction and ADHD and we're going to get into all of that. So I'm very, very excited. Are you? I'm very excited. Okay. Also, before we kick things off, if you haven't already clicked that subscribe or follow button. Such a tease. I know. You thought the episode was about to begin. I know. Wherever you're listening to this, it makes a huge amount of difference to us. So if you can please click that button, that would mean so, so much to us. Okay, you ready for this? Yes. Please welcome to Great Company, Jordan and Harley from Rizzle Kicks.

5:30Hi, it's Rizzle Kicks. And we are Great Company.

5:35What? Oh my God. I've got Bones pick for you. What is it, man? You nearly made me fat. Yeah, yeah. Brother, brother. All my life, yeah. Don't lie about it, man. Jordan knows. I like sweets, yeah. I mentioned it earlier. I'm like Friday, Saturday night like treat vibe yeah but I bought a can of kittens in the morning once and that's when I knew I had to never eat them ever again that's when the problem sets in I've not eaten them since then well you're getting I've got a whole bunch today so I can't wait I really appreciate can I take a box home? yeah you can take more than a box

6:12I want to take it back okay because I want to talk about the music you guys getting back together but I want to draw it way back to the beginning And I want to, what I really want to do is get your individual stories as well. So Holly, I'm going to start with you. You grew up in Brighton, right? Well, grew up in London, then moved to Brighton for like, uh, like secondary school. Yeah. Which was, which was kind of like, I only realized the impact that had on me when I grew into an adult. Like, so bear in mind, I grew up in like North London with green, kind of like everyone I knew, all my friends were kind of like, you know, black, Muslim, whatever, like loads And then I moved to Brighton when I was like 11 or 12.

6:50And I was like, probably same situation to Jordan, one of three black kids in the entire school. And it was really strange because like racism was just like normal. I know we're getting like, I'm getting deep. No, this is great, man. It was, it was, it was like, it was so normalized that I kind of became part of it myself and was like, oh yeah, that was funny. That like racist joke you just told. But I got so acclimatised to it that it wasn't until I moved back to London when I was like 17, 18, that I realised how insane that that jump was going from, you know, a place with such like different energy, different vibes, different everything, to like such a like kind of closed-minded one race.

7:38And I think it played a big part on like my feelings as an adult, my feelings towards my colour, my race, my heritage. But explain that, John, did you have the same thing? Yeah, Brighton was open-minded in some senses. Some places would have been closed-minded, but I think just naturally when you're in a space where you are literally the minority or whatever, because like I say, in London, the beauty of London is you have this cauldron of culture that you are rubbing shoulders with and you're able to grow with these people and understand. You know, like when I was at school in Neesden, in primary school, there were loads of Hindus in my school and I actually just developed this real fascination with Hinduism because I thought the gods were really cool and the stories were amazing and you know so that's the kind of insight that would be in my mind that's the benefit of diversity in Brighton there was just less diversity so if you're wanting to fit in I was wanting to fit in some of the sacrifices of maybe self-worth to assimilate are quite sad to look back on do you know what I mean so if my being there is someone's only experience of like being around blackness, then they'll try things, as teenagers will do, say things, act in particular ways to just see where the boundary is.

8:54Especially when we played football. I remember I played football and we would play like neighbouring villages and towns and shit. And they were wild. I mean, it got even more wild when I started playing cricket. You'd be surprised how few like... I'm not surprised about cricket being racist. But there was like surprisingly small amount of like Asian community down that way. cricket's like huge in the Asian community. But yeah, it was, it was kind of a crazy experience that I don't, don't really appreciate, not appreciate, but understand fully in until now and tomorrow. And that's why with my children, so they're, my son, especially who's six, he's, he's a tiny bit confused about his race because my partner's white.

9:33And so he's, he's, you could tell he's mixed race, but he's very, he's very light skinned. And so he's, he's bathed about like what he is, what color he is, what race yeah he's really confused because like me and my dad aren't like super tight like he so he doesn't see him very often so he doesn't have that side of his uh uh his family to kind of like look at and and understand and so but that's why a big part of me wants to raise them in london as sometimes i have fears of raising my children in london but i want them to you know experience everything understand everything and i think that's a big part of why i wouldn't want to move out of this city.

10:10How aware of it? I would. Fuck London. How aware of it at the time were you guys? Because I think, Harley, as you said, people were making racist jokes and you were just joining along with it. And you said you don't really realise the impact of it. How aware of it were you at the time that what people were saying was wrong? Do you know what? It was only within my friendship group. And, you know, like, as we've gotten older, like the ones who are like more like into that have like profusely apologized and been like you know I was young and but with them I kind of like didn't it was nothing I didn't understand any of it it was just like part of the culture of of being a teenager in Brighton but if it was but it was odd because if it was someone I didn't know it was like chaos and I would get super angry and I would fight and I would, and weirdly my friends would fight for me, despite the fact that they would, you know, also be kind of part of it.

11:11But, you know, I kind of like was quite, at times, Jordan's seen it. I've, I've, I used to get really fucking angry. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to the point when it, it doesn't happen as that much anymore, but I like see red, like if I, if I feel a level of like disrespect, effect i'd nothing else really comes in the mind i just see red and i get very very very angry very quickly and that often happened when i was a kid which obviously didn't help like my labeling as like a angry black kid all that kind of thing that just like kind of fed into it a lot more and i don't think you know i love my mom and we've gone through some rough rough patches where we're good now but like she she also didn't understand that kind of thing and uh would you you know, would often, you know, wouldn't understand why I was getting so cross and why I hated living where I lived at the time.

12:02And I didn't really understand, so I couldn't really verbalize it properly. But it's just, it's small things, you know, like even I had like big Afro, big Afro hair. I always saw my Afro as kind of like a sign of like who I was in a sense, because I see kids now in London and their hair is like so well groomed. It's like so well oiled, so well kept. and like my hair was just a mess, you know, it was all over the place. And like, cause my mum didn't know what to do with it. And that, and that for me, I think back and I'm like, I wish I was like proud to have that hair. But back in the day it was like, it was just so messy, knotty to the point where I'm just shave it, you know?

12:40And, and even that, like, and now I can't fucking grow hair when I really want to have hair. You got to give me your guy, by the way. Yeah. The one that did the plugs for me. But it's confusing. I think as teenagers, it's like a really confusing time. And then you had these anger issues. And then you got diagnosed with ADHD when you were 15. And that man is confusing because, you know, I can even see it. I have ADHD. Yeah. Some form, but yeah, forgive me for trying to diagnose it. But you have the more fidgetiness and we can see it here. Right. So and it shows when I've been with you, you find it hard to sit still.

13:21and so you know especially in a conversation like this I can tell I'm the same it's like you know you can get distracted so how as a teenage that's hard yeah I didn't like school I didn't get along with school but in terms of like understanding you know my place in Brighton I am an only child I think so well for most of my life I've been an only child let's go deep as well guys yeah yeah well no this is deeper deeper than I've got it's the deepest Harley's ever fucking gone I'm in and shit I don't even know I appreciate it man Um, yeah, so it's, it's, uh, yeah, it was, I just, but I was like, uh, I was completely delusional as a teenager and I was seemingly completely, um, I'd been embarrassed and rejected so often that in my, in my school life, like I was bullied when I was at school and in primary school and in secondary school, I kind of wasn't bullied, but I was definitely odd because I didn't understand the, how that friendship really worked.

14:19I didn't understand why people were doing nothing together. Like I had this productive mindset when I was a teenager. So I really just kind of, I didn't think I needed anything other than my own time and space in order to push me and my mom out of the space that we were living in. So when I got diagnosed with ADHD at 15, I actually didn't really care. And when I had the exam, I hated exams. I missed all my targets at school. I was considered an A star student and I didn't get a single A. I don't I think I just didn't. And I wasn't stressed about it. I was just like, I didn't think I needed it to go where I wanted to go.

14:55Really? No, not at all. I was stressed at the time. Because obviously, I got an unmarkable, I think, in one of the exams. I got an E in art because I threw my work at the teacher. That's always a good one. But it wasn't like an aggressive, violent thing. It wasn't at the teacher. It was like towards the teacher in a safe, from a safe distance. It was in an artistic way. Wait, this is art. What are you talking about? Well, he just like, he mugged me off. I won't get into it. But, you know, even lessons I really enjoyed, the coursework side of it, I'd nail. It was just like the exam, an hour to prove what I've learned over two years just fundamentally doesn't make sense to me.

15:31I don't think it makes sense in many different spaces. When did you know you had like some kind of... I don't think he's actually, you've not been diagnosed. I'm being diagnosed at the moment. I had it as a kid. I got diagnosed, but I mean, it was like a weird thing at school. They said, oh, this, this, it wasn't, it was ADD that they said. But then, dude, as a kid, I couldn't sit still. I had tantrums. Unless I was highly focused on like sport or something, that was my outlet, right? So that kind of really helped me. But I think what's interesting is also my family life was a bit chaotic. You know, divorce, sent to boarding school.

16:06It was all like a lot going on. How long were you at boarding school? I went to boarding school at eight. For how long? Eight years old. How many years? Ten years. That's insane. Bro, what the fuck? Where did you grow up? I grew up in near Oxford and then moved to London when my parents got divorced around seven. How often did you see your family when you were in boarding school? Every three weeks for a weekend. That's insane. As a child that young, that's blowing my mind. So what's interesting for me is... Do you think that's had an effect on anything as you've gotten older? Yeah, huge effect.

16:39To the point where, I mean like suppressing emotions. Yeah, just wanting to please. not being embarrassed about saying anything because you're in a dormitory of 12 kids and if you cry, you're the weak one. Really? Did that hierarchical thing just happen straight up? Straight away. Like there's the... Yeah, yeah, straight away. And it's a food chain straight away. You go in there and you straight away, eight years old, notice who the lions are. And was it full of people who'd already been there? Or was it like all you... It's the same year. So you go in eight, they're older years. And the older years is even more hierarchical as you can imagine.

17:16Really? Yeah, it's wild. And so, but so, so I always look at, you know, we, we, I always look at family life. And Harley, you mentioned that you're, you didn't have a relationship with your dad. And Jordan, you mentioned that your mum was, what was your relationships like with your parents growing up? My mum and dad have always been mates. I can't, I don't really have any memories of them together, but yeah, my mum was like very creatively supportive of me. like she enforced, not enforced, she encouraged like a creative expression and celebrated it. And so I really had a belief in my own creativity as a child.

17:53And then later on, you know, I had to kind of reckon with perhaps how my mum treated herself, you know, because she was, she's a fighter, but she, you know, it's tough being in that space. And also we live in a world and a system where if you're not on top of the capitalist expectations of society, it fucking crushes you, So all my early memories and experiences are seeing people on the dole, on estates, struggling to keep their head above water and being punished at every turn. And that just doesn't make sense to me. And to be fair, I think the highest, the most represented demographic of ADHD are boys in single parent, low income households.

18:32So there's definitely, I'm a firm believer in Gabor Mate's approach to the outlook on ADHD and that there's, there's a, you're born with a propensity, you know, because I think my mum and dad do. Explain that. What do you mean? Like my mum and dad are definitely, you know, I guess being that they're creative and whatever else, the way they approach life and organize and don't organize. and my dad's quite clumsy and all these kind of things, there'll be some kind of, you know, obviously when they're growing up, they don't have the same analysis and giving these titles. So that'll be in my wiring, being that I'm half my mum and half my dad, but it's the environment that I'm born into.

19:10The Gabo Mate says the environment can basically like trigger those. The argument is like, I could have an opportunity if I'm to have a child in the future, I could have an opportunity for my child to maybe not take on so many of my symptoms. if they're encouraged to settle a little bit more in their environment or they're given everything they need in order to feel more secure. I mean, you just had Alan de Botton on. You don't need me for this. No, man, but it's... No, but you speak from the heart. Yeah, but he's one of the guys I listen to about his stuff. Because it is... I think it's nature and nurture, basically.

19:42That's what I mean. And that's what I'm sort of getting at. And Harley, what about you? What was your relationship like with your parents? Again, don't have a memory of them being ever together. My, my, my relation, my dad is, is more of like an interesting one because he's like, he's, he's like a really good man. Like he's like a good man, but he, you know, he's moved over here from Nigeria when he was like pretty young. And then his parents wanted him back. So he got sent back. He was back and forth between here and Nigeria for a long time. And then ended up being fostered by a lovely woman called Jocelyn.

20:16but he is crazy to me because like he hates his blackness like beyond what I've ever experienced so like obviously he experienced bullying to like another level right growing like in the 70s in London as a full like Nigerian man like it was bad for him but like to the point now where so for example my daughter's called Awala which is like a Nigerian name and she but she's even more fair skin than my son she like she could probably pass as a white girl but my dad was like you shouldn't have called her a wala because now people are going to know that she's african and to me i was like that's that's like that's really sad i i understand like what has happened to you and like you know it's not completely a different world but it is to a degree and i for me, my blackness, I want to celebrate and like encourage all my kids.

21:11And like, you know, if they want to identify as whatever they want to do, that's fine. But like, I want them to at least like have an understanding of it. Whereas I never had that understanding because me and my dad don't have that kind of relationship. And even if we did, he would have like suppressed it and squashed it anyway, because of his hatred towards his own race and skin color. And, and yeah, he's a good man, but like, he didn't really have an understanding of how to be a dad because he never had a dad, you know, and that's something I've only begun to understand since becoming a dad is that if you don't have that kind of person to learn from when you're super young, like it's tough.

21:48And like, I wouldn't say I'm the best parent in the world, but I've always grew up with the mentalities. I really want to be a fucking good dad because I want to prove that you don't have to have like a super present father figure to actually be a great father and I think I've somewhat achieved that but he's a good part he's a good person he's not like a bad like runaway dad who's like you know he's the type of person who like will never text you never end a million years will ask you if you want to hang out or do anything but if you say to him like do you want to cancel all of your plans and like in the next four hours and like go and do something with me and the kids he'd be like just give me time and place you know he I think he's a little bit autistic.

22:28I just don't think he fully, again, understands like pretty normal social cues and understand. Again, I'm self-diagnosing. But I get it. But I mean, what's amazing, right, is that I'm assessed with sort of male role models and things like that, and I think they're so important in life. And then, you know, John, you found it hard to find male role models right in life. Isn't that right? Yeah. And what I find interesting, is that you guys then meet each other and it feels like you suddenly found that sort of role model in each other. Definitely not. Definitely not. Do you not think? Each other's role models.

23:12I don't think role models may be the correct word. Yeah, but you found a brotherly love with each other that you haven't had before and so you could connect maybe with a male in your life and you're like, oh my God, we like the same thing. We like music. Oh my God, this is great. let's do this yeah but Hal's has a brother yeah but I don't it's different he's like 10 years younger than me yeah true you guys find each other in Brighton you connect you start creating this music you put it on YouTube you found it on YouTube you know Island Records isn't it that say right we want to sign you guys for any like especially at that time the sky's the limit it was organic for sure that's what it felt like compared to this day and age you know we got like you know we got Yeah, there was three offers and we went with a guy called Nick who's, he signed, he had signed Adele and Dizzy Rascal.

24:04So we were like, yeah, he sounds good. And then another guy offered us an iPad and we thought I was a bit dodged. So we just, so that wasn't the only deal, as well as money. It wasn't just his and iPads. At the time, bro, iPads were wild. This is like, this is 2010. iPhones came out in 2007 so that was like revolutionary to have like a but yeah it was it was yeah but again like I really emphasised I was truly delusional as a teenager so I didn't even think it was weird I was like oh yeah we'll get signed sure and then I reckon we'll probably just like be high in the charts but isn't that in the magic of being a teenager being young as well right there's no experience there's always that poem which I love which is about innocence and experience how experience kills innocence and actually we kind of want to say innocent forever because then we're not learned we don't learn these things yeah but isn't innocent they're just being used as a replacement for ignorance yeah possibly because because like the whole yeah you get a beautiful window where you can you can excuse idiocy and like with you can have be overconfident and be like you know um being you can be overconfident and stupid but it's excusable on based off of age but the dream is to be so experienced that the confidence comes from an informed understanding of what you can do in the world around you that's the that's the kind of dream you know but i do think yes the innocence and the naivety and the overconfidence based off of like what is the world brilliant and super fun but for me personally i can't speak for highly one of the hardest things when we put the kicks on ice and then we're trying to grow up and and be more grounded and establish, you know, healthier roots.

25:51One of the biggest complexes I had to overcome was the reality that not everything I try first time is going to be successful. That was wild. Explain that more. Well, it is unusual to see a video on YouTube from a record label perspective, even go, all right, these boys are good. You know what I mean? We've got like appeal. There weren't many other acts similar to us in that space. And then we tried, we put out one song and it, it went to number eight within a month and stayed there for like almost two, three months. And then another song comes in its top 10 and another song comes in its number two.

26:27And then an album like that first, first try, that's not usual. And, and for us, not only did it create a space where I didn't even acknowledge that we'd achieved all of our dreams within one year, but then it was like, right, where's the second album? Do you know what I mean? And then we are now having to live, we have to have to live with the expectation of something that, where we've overachieved essentially. So, so, so what you're saying. We haven't overachieved the album, it's sick, thank you. And the album is sick. Both albums, I want to say. But the, but the, what you're saying is that having that immediate success is incredibly dangerous.

27:05Yeah, I would say that. So, so then what's the counter to that then? Like if you, if you, cause, cause all you want, you're going into this industry and all you want is success no it's the climb not climax that's what I say Harley were you the same did you have the same sort of mentality because I know what you're saying and I agree with you you're just like you're not used to failure so then when failure hits you it hits you like a bullet but what's wild is that like so our first album stereotypical it's double platinum now I think which is which is insane what does that mean for the listeners like it's it's over 600 ,000 records and in a time you know that's a lot No one has platinum albums anymore, really, unless you're like a super, you know.

27:46It's a lot of records, basically. But then - Physical as well. Yeah. And then on our second album, which, you know, I'm super proud of that album. Love that album. It went gold, which - Which is amazing. Which is incredible, but it's only 100 ,000. I think it's done like over 200 ,000 now, but like at the time over 100 ,000. And, but because that wasn't as good as our first album, it was not seen as like a failure, but like, you know, if it's not going up, then technically it's a failure. But like, if for example, the first time around we had sold 50 ,000, the label would be like, wow, that's great for a new artist.

28:29And then you, on the second one, you say, let's do 150 ,000. I go, wow, it's growing, it's growing. But because we sold fucking 600 ,000 on the first try, and then only 100 ,000 on the second try, your view of what success gets so skewed to the point where you just then are like lost a little bit. You guys are young. You think you're cool. There's a huge success straight away. Unfortunately, that is typically a recipe for disaster in terms of, you know, we can get into it, right? There's drugs, there's alcohol. We probably had a very similar-ish experience. Yeah. To a degree. But for you guys, you're young, you're successful, you're good looking.

29:13How do you not drift into that dark side of life? Can I say, I didn't think I was cool. I definitely enjoyed the music that we made and I understood that we were good at it. I thought my delusion was like, I know I'm good at writing lyrics. And people would actively be like, you're shit. like your music's awful I remember I tried to sing on a song when I was younger and somebody like clipped it up and just send it around everyone on MSN and everyone was just sending me just like laughing at me saying I was all shit but I'm saying it didn't that was normal to me so I didn't think like oh everyone's going to think I'm cool I was like I'm going to show these cool kids what hard work means and actually my drive and ambition was spurred on again this is another thing I'm now dealing with as a response I'm not having to motivate myself from a place of harmony not having to prove people wrong and I found that hard that's something I still struggle with you know yeah because I think you know what I was what I was getting is that you guys had sort of these two journeys where and you've been vocal about I want to talk about it about drugs and alcohol and that space and I admire you for being open about it right but Harley what a lot of people may not know is the anxiety attacks that you had you and I remember speaking to you Jordan about this years ago and you probably won't remember you were on stage you had a panic attack and that was like a light switch for you that was it yeah what happened tell me about it um like yeah in like kind of like a physical sense it was just we mean i'd started like doing this other music music project and it was amazing by the way thank you and i had a show and look i don't know i'm starting to learn a little bit more about it, but I don't want to like put confirmation on that in terms of why it happened, but a big part of it, cause as, as you can, you know, see in our dynamic, Jordan's very upfront.

31:13He's like very good at talking to people. He's like, you know, probably the best conversationist I've ever met. And, and, and when, uh, and, but that also translated to being on stage. So like, I kind of got used to being able to like go on stage, Jordan ramping up the crowd, I'd like doing this. And then I'd be able to just like chime in with a little sign, whatever. And it was cool. And I, and I always felt comfortable, but like, even if like Jordan like went off stage, like change his t-shirt, whatever I'd be on stage. Like, uh, uh, I wouldn't feel nervous. I don't know what to say. Um, and I think, you know, doing that thing on my own without Jay was like, I think I felt all of a sudden like really exposed.

31:56And also a lot of the music that we wrote, especially on our first album, was, it was fun. It was happy. It was jolly. It was about kind of random shit you do as teenagers. But this was, this music I was making was heartbreak. A lot of heartbreak stuff, a lot of love songs. And I used to be a very emotionally shut off person, like a, like a stone, like proper, like stoic man, no emotion type thing. And all of a sudden I'm in a room of people singing about how I got my heart broken. And all of a sudden it's just like this wave of like, oh my god I can't believe you're exposing yourself like this like hit me and and then yeah so we from that like you know I had a panic attack John was there ambulance was there I thought I was having a fucking heart attack all this shit and then we had a tour had to cancel that because I couldn't visualize doing that which was you know I still feel fucking awful about that but I at the time I had to take care of myself, but that anxiety spilled into everything, every part of my life.

32:57You know, I couldn't get on the tube. I couldn't like, I couldn't, I couldn't even like, the idea of doing this, like, you know, I've said this before, but the idea of like sitting opposite you and like having a chat in a room of like 10 people or whatever, if this was, you know, four or five years ago, I would have found any excuse not to be here. I would have, you know, crumbled. I would have been in bed for days. I would have you know been throwing up i would have had anxiety it was like and this is so like casual like nice and like relaxing and lovely but like the idea of it just like really i hated it and it it kind of caused me to like spiral into quite a deep deep depression because the thing i love doing being a performer being an artist being a person who likes being around other creative if people was like zapped away from me, taken away from me.

33:50And I was kind of left with like this idea of who I used to be. And like that longing to be that person again, but with the physical incapability of doing so. And yeah, it really sent me into like a fucking dark, dark place, man. And that was a big part of why we had to, we took a step, step back and just say, look, we need to just work on ourselves. And, and I, you know, that was the best thing we could have done. Like we could have, I could have powered through and could have like, Cause I think a lot of people do, cause they're so addicted to kind of like that lifestyle and that celebrity culture and that like, you know, onslaught of like people appreciating you that they can't take themselves out of it.

34:27But I think, you know, we, we were strong enough to kind of remove ourselves and, you know, I had a family, I've got an amazing partner who's like super supportive and I had good people around me, great friends. my children are amazing and just living in that existence of just like wholesomeness and harmony was really important to be able to now I've like grown and like sport like you mentioned earlier like I use sport like like as a that's a big thing for me like I need that shit now I'm a person that don't get me wrong like there's going to be moments during this process where I might have a little fumble or have a little like moment where I'm like oh that's a big deal don't have feel about that but I now have the tools and the understanding of myself to to take that on and and you know Jordan's always been like a huge supporter of like since since I started feeling that like in that way and it was never I never felt a pressure to be like let's get back on this wheel like the reason why we started making music again was like super organic we just you know we love making music together and that was where it all stemmed from and it started extremely low pressure low key we just got in the studio did some bits and it was great it was really great and that also gave me a lot of confidence but you know it's the past like seven eight years is the early part of it was fucking horrible but the past like four three four years has been a lovely beautiful journey and and that wouldn't have happened if i'd if i'd kept myself in in that space you know all right man what's said dude honestly i think really i really appreciate you for sharing that because do you know what the worst thing is is when you're the joy that you have turns into torture and when the worst thing which i'm sure jordan you've experienced as well you have i know i have is when you're you feel like your brain is failing you and it's not your physical body it's something that you can't control and you can't start doing the thing that you still love because something has happened within you that you can't see so did you have similar oh man Yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:31I mean, yeah, I had same panic attack, but I was too addicted to the fame. So I didn't stop. I just drank. But, you know, forgive me for digging deep. I just think, look, I think we're three guys sitting here and being vulnerable. And I just think that's amazing. You know, when you go, when you, how dark do it get for you? um pretty bad yeah like i i always knew i had like some kind of ocd but my ocd got really bad and i think what people um people surface level ocd is like oh i gotta turn that light off i gotta you know gotta be super tidy like but ocd which i've learned through lots of therapy is actually when it gets more intense and more difficult to deal with is when your brain attaches itself to certain thoughts.

37:26So for example, say you're in the market for a new car and you want to buy a mini, right? You're going to see a mini. You're going to notice minis on the street now every time you see a mini, because it's like in your mind. OCD is the same thing. So you'll have like a thought. And because your brain is attached some kind of importance to that thought, you can't let go of that thought and i've had some like fucking horrible ones which now i'm like you know okay with but like even like stuff with my children like when i thought it's horrible it's most darkest most awful stuff that about about my my family and like what it just got really really difficult to deal with and but i know and you and you think like this is me this is who i am i'm this person you know, these horrible dark thoughts.

38:15And then I spoke to this therapist for a long time and she was like, how do those dark thoughts make you feel? Like, do they make you feel? And I was like, I'm terrified of them. And she was like, people have experienced dark thoughts like that. And all those people feel vindicated by those thoughts and enjoy them, you know? And I was like, that's, I'm so terrified of these. And she was like, that's who you are. You're a person who is so terrified of like being this horrible person that your brain is attached some weird importance to it to make sure you don't do that. And once I kind of understood that about OCD, it got so much easier to cope with.

38:54And, you know, I've now, I think all the good parts of OCD where I'm a fucking clean freak and he's so clean and like, and, and, you know, I, I'm very like, you know, on the school run in the morning, I'm very, my son has to leave at this time and he's never late. He's never been late for school. Don't get me wrong. But like, like when I say it got bad, it got really, really, really bad. I never like, you know, I think it was like, I think it was, it was that kind of paralysis. I think your, your thought process has become so dark that you don't want to put yourself anywhere because the fear of anything that your thoughts are going to become true that you're just like, I need to remove myself.

39:33That's exactly. And I totally understand. And that happens to so many people. I know. I've learned that now. When I've been open about some of the darker thoughts I've had to my friends and to my family, they're like, wait, is that real? Because I've had that so many times. And I've been so worried at this person. I'm like, no, no, you're good. You're good. Don't worry. You might be going through a tough time at the moment, but you're good.

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41:47Jordan, seeing a friend in that space, not even just a friend, you know, your teammate, your brother, your business partner, your artist together, that's tough, right? yeah listen it was uh yeah we were saying just the other day that um around that time actually I was so based off on productivity like my issues would come later I was kind of living from the head up I'd say I was in this kind of suspended I would our response to intense anxiety differed in that it would cause Harley to freeze and with me I would what is it fight flight or freeze I I guess I'd fight, I guess. In some sense, I would embody the anxiety and just run.

42:34One of the first things my therapist said to me, which is in my book, is... No, I'm joking. One of the first things my therapist said to me... You should read it. I want to get a part of the book. The book is called as well. Avoidance, drugs, heartbreak and dogs. Yeah, I'll sort you out. So like, but she said... But it's ADHD, right? Yeah. Anxiety is my petrol. That's one of the things she said. She asked me, do you want to get into this because you're going to struggle maybe to motivate yourself once we do the work? And I did, but we did the work and now it's coming from a healthier place. But I was so proactive that when Harley was going through these troubles, I was like, all right, he doesn't get it.

43:04I don't get it. Let's go on a journey together to discover what it is that's going on with Harley. And in the process of that journey, I then realized that I also had all these fucking issues. And I was like, well, this journey sucks. Whoa, what? I was sweet with all this. But like, but you know, I think the ultimately, aside of my own naivety and, you know, again, we were both in a space where the conversation around mental health was in its own early-ish years. So we're literally Googling things together, trying to understand. It's a scary time, because there's no knowledge as well. Yeah, we were trying to understand, like, how does this go, get past it?

43:44I'm literally sat in his house looking through things going, do you feel this? Do you feel this? And he's going, yeah, no, yeah. And then we were recording it, all this kind of stuff. You're just trying to guess. You're trying to navigate. Well, we, again, Harley eventually was, got into therapy and, and, you know, then I am whole came off of after this. This was like a year after. Yeah. Like Harley said, the main, the, the most, I guess, important choice that was made was a, was a hundred percent mutual agreement that our own wellbeing, a personal, uh, like harmony was way more important than, you know, keeping up with the other, you know, staying in this rat race.

44:24and trying to compete with all the other artists around us. I just didn't, it's not, I just don't think, it's more, you know what I mean? You can't put up, like, what does it mean if we went and worked our asses off in spite of being fucked and then like doing well, then you're still, the emotional world doesn't give a fuck about material world. It doesn't matter if you've got a new car, if you feel like a dickhead, do you know what I mean? It doesn't matter. But what does your management say? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. it didn't matter it was just what you know our manager he didn't sorry just for context he didn't like try and make us you know there were people around us who would encourage us of course the booking agent was devastated we cancelled the tour and you know our manager would try and actually to be honest he didn't at all I think he was actually that's one thing if anything he could have tried a bit harder actually to get out of the same music he was actually really chill he just fucking to be fair to him he was like yeah fuck it to be fair to him he was the one who he introduced me to therapists and he was very helpful in that space but it was also new man but it's amazing because Simone Biles was the same thing the height of the game and then just going you know what I need to look after myself and it's rare the flip side of that is you see awful things like Avicii do you know what I mean heartbreaking for you if you never gave your when did you heal when did you give your time to him when I met my wife really?

45:53Yeah I think so yeah and she showed love but not the sort of validation love that I needed so I thought I needed to be stroked all the time and you know that's not healthy like she just did it in a great way So she naturally knew not to caretake Yeah that was Wow so she was like secure in herself So secure man. That's a gift bro It's an insane gift. She had so much love as a kid that she didn't understand what not having love was. She's an anchor That's cool. I don't know if people existed did bro not did I buddy that's wild especially they're out there yeah I don't know about that god damn I've heard about this in books yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah very intelligent did you tell Alan about this I tried to I think I did yeah wow just give him some hope but John you have been open about your issues with drugs and alcohol and that got pretty bad didn't it at some point like the best way to encapsulate the state we'd got to is actually in and around Harley's panic attack if you don't mind me repeating the story that my dad said the other day that I put on the album oh not album wait do you want to help me out anyway is that like is so Harley was on the phone to me when he had this panic attack so he had basically anyway the point is he had a panic attack explain it I like this well he had the panic attack it was the first time I think he'd had a full blown panic attack it obviously had real bad anxiety stage anxiety he had the nausea but this was like seriously scary for me and him because I'm hearing him hyperventilating on the phone.

47:24He just about passed the phone to the driver. And then I just asked the driver where he was. And then, but the funny thing was I had been out all night. So I hadn't slept in like 36 hours. I'd just done the worst DJ set of all time in a Timberland store. I came. I can't even remember that you came. I can't even remember that you came. It was like fucking dreadful. I was like just trying to get a bit of extra money, probably for drugs. And then he's had this panic attack. I've turned up like a, like his wild, you know, I've jumped out of the car like Harley, what do you want? Do you want some Tangfastics?

48:01So I think, sorry, candy kittens.

48:07But then, so then I've like run off to get him these, these, these sweets, just a little sugar surge at the time. Cause obviously it's, you know, just a comfort food for him at the time. And then I didn't realize that at the Timberland show, I'd lost my wallet. I didn't even realise. So I've run up into Tesco's, grabbed some sweets and been like, I can't pay for this. And they're like, okay. So then I've ran back to everyone there, including a paramedic, being like, has anyone got a fiver? Do you know what I mean? And it was like that. That chaos. Yeah. It sums up kind of where we were both at.

48:36And yeah, for me, it was bizarrely, I actually probably did with my therapist in the second half of my 20s, we untangled where the anxiety ended and the ADHD began because I think I conflated the two quite heavily. And if I think back actually to the beginning of the rise, I too was experiencing quite overwhelming forms of anxiety, but I was introduced to cocaine so efficiently that cocaine ends up being a medication. It's an amphetamine. Do you know what I mean? It was probably cut with a similar chemical compound to what I'm now prescribed anyway. It quieted your thoughts. Yeah. So, and, and I remember that first, you know, I used to go into these environments where we'd meet people I'd seen on telly or even weirder, you know, footballers I'd controlled on the computer, on the PlayStation, you know, and I would be so panicked about how I would appear to them or like how to say hello, how to say goodbye.

49:36I would overthink all of this. I was overthinking. And then this, this upper would just take that away. So I was just then surfing this wave of, you know, living up here, thinking, thinking, creating, you know, being productive. And it was this mania that sailed me into my second half of my 20s. But I wasn't really able to connect with my body to people. And I've only found that in the later part of my 20s, actually really up until turning 30, where now the friendships I have, the relationships I'm in, they are based around a heartfelt connection. My heart is open. But, you know, for a long time I couldn't even feel my toes and I only realised that when I could feel them, which was literally at like 28.

50:20I'd just been on this wave, you know. So, yeah, it was super fun, super hedonistic, you know, irresponsible and misguided, you know. And I didn't have an understanding of my own energy. I was certainly searching for validation externally, 100%. Didn't have my, my forwardness and social mobility was like definitely informed by like quite cripplingly low self-esteem, but it's hard to identify that because I'm the fucking, you know, and then people, some people might even think I'm good looking and I would, and I'd be like, all right, but did I really believe it in myself? I can say, I think from my own introspection, no.

51:06And actually, since I did start to believe that in myself, that my beauty was from a deeper place than how people who I didn't even respect perceived me, now suddenly my life is better. Love that, man. Well said, dude. That was well said. That was well said. I like that. I did loads of drugs, though.

51:28Holly, you're saying you have your family, you have your partner. Yeah. You know, that's amazing. and Jordan you have your partner who's also a superstar yeah massively massively dude and you mentioned that she's the only person that you've really connected really properly on the level that you are unfortunately yeah that's the most open my heart's been I had a real understanding of what I wanted from love which I didn't know for a long time and she's more than capable of providing that yeah and I literally dude in lockdown I literally wrote a list of what I was looking for, what I wanted. I tried to manifest this shit.

52:04I don't know if you're into manifesting or whatever. I take everything with a pinch of salt, but dude, I could show you this fucking list. It's Jade, you know what I mean? And she just popped up. Yeah, man. Seriously, listen, when I met Jade, I hadn't been out of my past relationship for that long. So when I was chatting to her, it was an ego-driven thing. I've always talked about how much I love Little Mix. I couldn't believe that we had a mutual friend, me and Jade. And so when I'm chatting to her, I was like, boys, I'm chatting to one of Little Mix. and then like a couple of weeks went past and I'm there going like, damn, she's like, she's funny.

52:40She's, she's interesting. I hadn't met her at this point. This was, you know, cause it was the end of lockdown. But then, you know, I was like, fuck. I remember thinking like, I think I need to meet her because we're talking a lot actually. And I don't want to get into like a thing where, you know, I was thinking I'd be this kind of available. And then I met her and I was just like, what? I'm not going to waste any time here because, you know, well, what am I going to do? Like pretend this isn't a vibe for like a few months just for my own. Do you believe in marriage? Yeah, but I guess I believe in it existentially.

53:13Yeah. I don't know enough about it as an institution. I wasn't raised to believe in it being an important aspect of a relationship. But saying that, I've been to a lot of weddings recently and the idea of people coming together to celebrate love conceptually is just fucking brilliant. Yeah. When did you get married? last year did you do it like your own way a little bit I did it my way not my wife's way and that was a bit sus really she really didn't like it she had a really tough time with anxiety leading up how have you done it with the names and that just take your name we haven't I think she's going to probably take my name but that's because she wants to but I wouldn't I don't mind whatever she wants to that's what I mean while I was hesitant about my immediate reaction is just because again a celebration of love and potential tax relief brilliant but the the the religious there was some religious I know what you're saying yeah twist on it where I'm like like me and Harley went to a wedding once where the father of the bride joked about like where his sheep were because he was like that's part of the exchange you've got my daughter where are my sheep those are the original vows if you want to look into them so the idea of like a father giving their daughter away that kind of shit I'm like nah I'm not asking for permission and shit well actually I shouldn't say that but it's just like I don't believe in that shit like I believe in just celebrating love Can you say for the listeners who Jade is?

54:32She's actually Jade now, Mononym bro That's that solo shit, let's go Just straight up, Jade But Jade was in the band Little Mix Big huge, Little Mix huge band Global success Look what can I say about it that I haven't already said About with Jade, I think For me And I think Harley can definitely back this up Like she's 100 % a superstar And that's brilliant But those two weeks I'm talking about where I'm suddenly like Whoa, this is different Is she has this really grounded unaffected spirit that you wouldn't know do you know what I'm trying to say you wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't meet her and be like and you realise that she's so you wouldn't think she was like one of the biggest superstars guys it's the greatest thing in the world when you meet someone and the unexpected happens you go what what yeah yeah and she and it's yeah it's a beautiful trait of hers and also I fucking love how successful she is I it's great I did an interview the other day and sometimes I say some like, you know, I can be a little gough on tangents and sometimes interviewers like specifically transcribe what I've said and I kid you not, I read an interview the other day where someone said like, asked me how I feel about Jade's success being that she's a woman and I went, well, I know that some people find that intimidating but I find it very hot and relaxing.

55:51And I was like, Like a sauna. Like a bath. I was like, didn't I say that? Going out with Jade is like being in a fucking bath. Hey, listen, I'm here for it.

56:05Do you know what I find about you guys? Do you know what really stands out about you both, which is amazing, is the love and respect you have for each other. And I think you see it in bands, you see it in TV shows, you see it in relationships, and let's talk about the sign of respect, right? And the fact that the success feels like you guys just had this level of respect for each other, that even though, Jordan, you were maybe more of the hype man, you actually, you know, you fell into the role of quite liking being backstage. Yin and yang, for sure. But that's amazing. And that really shines through, guys.

56:39And this is why there's new music coming. And I swear to God, I want people, when I, I swear to God, I'm not lying when I say this. I swear to you, but I can look in the eyes. I swear to God. I now go on the Rizzle Kicks TikTok to see you guys. dancing we're doing that shit at gunpoint bro it's so good I don't know what about your rhythm or the vibe like there's something within it dude I just think we're it's so I can't express more how good it is I definitely think there's we feel less pressure this time just because like I say our values in life I can't speak about Harley but just from seeing Harley's life choices our values have shifted you know and we're very much you know Harley has had this experience of having two children and feeling that shift of priority or value, like a desire of wanting to give love constantly and provide and be there and be present, you know?

57:38So slightly less affected by the fact that we have to do 100 TikToks a day. Yeah, that shit is wild. Man, I like it, dude. It's good. You're really fucking good at it. I don't have any social media. You're on nothing. I'm on nothing, bro. So this shit is wild to me. When we have to turn up and she's like, Like, we've got to do this thing, so it's like a trend or whatever. I'm like, why do these trends like that? You know, I'm going to ask you... I'm going to ask you a video about a hippo the other day, bro. It's crazy. I'm going to ask you to do a TikTok of this, and I can't wait. Honestly, I can't wait.

58:07Look, I don't mind doing those content days. I'm just... It just blows my mind. You have to do it. I actually love TikTok, but I watch conspiracy videos. Do you... The great thing about soulmates is they don't have to be lovers, they can be friends. A hundred percent. Man, and you guys, I think, personify that. Yeah, a hundred percent. In a beautiful way. you really do 100 % we got some funny ass videos of us when we were like 18 years old man just like fucking filming ourselves being like absolute plonkers it's great we'll use it once for the doc you know whatever guys honestly I just want to say I really appreciate you guys coming on and your music's going to be I imagine you're thinking about a tour and things like yeah we've got some shows coming up yeah March 25 Grace's mum are going to be front row I can yes great we'd love that yeah just come whenever just let us know guys everyone loves you and the fact that you're back for some reason it's a real lift in like inflation has actually dropped by 2 % 0.2 % there we go it's huge man you guys respect you guys just quickly you have got your book out yeah and I know like your your mind is incredible and so I haven't read it yet I haven't even got I haven't even got a signed copy yet you can get you can also listen to it you know a lot of people people who struggle to read have been listening to it you're saying I struggle to read do you struggle to read yeah I do I've actually put the way But I think the way it's written will, as someone who's potentially got ADHD yourself, it will, because for me, when I read it, I thought it was really, I found it like sometimes a little bit jarring because I'm someone who's like very calm, doesn't have ADHD.

59:38And it's written by someone who very clearly has ADHD. I don't like commas, basically. Okay, good. So I just, it's like full stop, full stop, full stop. It's just like loads of little sentences, but you can't, you can't put it down. You can't like stop that. Do you know what I mean? It's not just like, oh, that's the end of the sentence. It's like four sentences in one sentence. It's just like, it's just grammatically incorrect, basically. But there's avoidance, drugs, heartbreak and dogs. Yes. But the number one bit of feedback that we've seen, which is amazing, like across wherever people can give feedback, is that a lot of people are, I don't usually read, but I've read this.

1:00:11I love. It's great. And you know what? Your music as well as optimistic and the world needs that. The album is, look, we definitely are bringing through like an energy that is reflective of something a bit more lifted. We talk about these values. We talk about the, like, nature. Like, we talk about, like... Our biggest flex is how much water we drink. Yeah, that's it. That's a big flex. We talk about love a lot. We talk about love. Which I think love for... Love and water. I think for a lot of, like, people, like, men in this industry and for younger men there's not enough men who celebrate being in love with one person except people who start podcasts with their wives and you have to but you know you see a lot of it it's just like I've got this person and I think you know it feeds into this whole like oh I don't but like I think more men need to celebrate how amazing it is to actually be in love yeah connection I believe personal opinion is that being in love with one person is more magical than you can possibly have It's the best.

1:01:14It's the best. Guys, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you so much for doing this. We have five questions that we normally end with a bit more, but we're going to do five because there's two of you. So be as honest and as quick as you want to. It's quick fire. You should encourage me to be quicker. Okay. What saying or phrase always makes you smile or cheers you up? Harley. I love you. That's too wholesome, man. But from my family. Not from? someone standing across the road. Jono, what's yours? And Jay calls me a daft cunt a lot. That's quite funny. That always cheers me up. I like it.

1:01:53Jono, what scares you most about yourself? Fuck me. That was deep. I definitely have like a rooted kind of lack of self-worth which I try and, you know, nurture. So I don't want to fall back into that. Love that man, honey. I don't know. I've got bad knees. Good one. All right. I like how you went deep and then right now you're just like, hey. when was the last time you cried and why brother I cried and I never cry at this kind of thing I'm actually not a massive crier believe it or not are you not yeah you are I go through like phase it we're always talking about crying I love crying I've nothing against that but it takes a lot for me to cry but I've not been like in an anxious depressive hole for a while that's not why you cry these days I'll tell you what I cried at the other day fucking what's it called straight guy queer eye for a fucking straight guy is there a new series of that I don't know I've never watched it I've never watched it before and my partner said I think you'll like this show because we got into watching like mad wholesome stuff and I was like yeah okay I'll give it a go watched one episode unbelievable I was sobbing I was weeping wow General what are you oh watching Ironclaw I was on the edge for a lot of the end part of the film.

1:03:12The second they show the real person... Gone. Boss. It's a good movie. I only watched half of it. It was good. Same thing happened with me with Hidden Figures. Same thing happened with Lion. Like, it's... The second I see the real person... Gone. Like, once there was... I watched Lion on a plane. I had to go into the bathroom because I was audibly sobbing. Like, it was... I was just like... Yeah, man. What turns you on? Debate. Candy kittens. intelligence what turns you on curiosity good one what turns you off eating your mouth open last one because we had a real wholesome episode and I loved it man what do you like most about yourself the fact that I'm a good dad aye yeah Jim I'm a right foot when I'm playing for you

1:04:02I don't know yeah you do come on come on dig deep I'm like I'm like very encouraging you found that hard to say no but I like it I get a real joy out of like you are encouraging go on you're a hype man in the best way yeah yeah yeah I love that last one favourite swear word cunt 100 % fuck because it's like so cunt for some reason has turned like actually it's actually a really horrible word but it's actually the root of it isn't but it actually isn't I for some reason it's like kind of Torexi if I do something wrong I just I'm not going to say the phrase, but it involves that word in it. Like, and I remember seeing a funny tweet once, which was like.

1:04:47Definitely say the phrase because it's so different. It's really weird. It's like a Tourette's thing. Say it. Cunt wagon. I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know. Cunt wagon. I don't know why. Where did you get that from? Brother, I don't know. But my friend. It's like douche canoe, I guess. You're just kind of attaching. My friend saw a tweet once was like, I just tackled that guy from Rizzle Crix and he called me a cunt wagon. Guys, I want to say a big thank you for being so open today. I know that's difficult sometimes. I really appreciate it. You have the best energy. Your music is amazing and thank the world that Rizzle Crix is back.

1:05:25You guys are legends. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.

1:05:32Wow, that was amazing. That was fantastic. I love that. I love that. I could have listened to that for hours. When we finish an episode, do you think, oh, how are you going to edit it? Yeah, sometimes, but less so now. I think I did to begin with, but I just, I kind of quite in the moment. To be honest, I'm concentrating a lot. So there are occasional bits where people are talking where I know I can take a brain breather. A brain breather. A brain breather. A brain breather, because I'm like, this ain't going in the show. I can't sometimes when you just talk about things that I think are boring I'll be like brain breather I love that but that, any brain breathers throughout that one?

1:06:17No I don't think so Good, that's good, I'm pleased with that Thank you for that I really really enjoyed that Sometimes you go and you're like that's going to be hard to cut down which I think that one will be Okay good, I'm glad Hey listen, if you enjoyed this episode and you haven't already please subscribe to this show. Click that button because it really makes a huge difference to us. It means we can get bigger guests and it means we can keep making a great show and we can keep paying for Jemima to keep making this show with us. Please. Please do it. And also get in touch. GreatCompany at jampropproductions.co.uk or you can slide into our DMs at Great Company Podcast.

1:06:50Ask us anything. We want to hear from you guys. So if you have any questions about the show, please let us know. And hey, we're going to see you next week, aren't we? We are. For another episode of Great Company.

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1:09:08On Thursdays we welcome you to the quick and dirty, also known as the biggest sugary headlines of the week. Our episodes have been listened to over 100 million times. search for Shameless in your favourite podcast platform to see why.