SHIRLEY BALLAS: THE STRICTLY CURSE COULD HAPPEN ANYWHERE

0:28Hey, it's Adam Grant from WorkLife, a podcast from TED. software, you'll work smarter, not harder. Freshworks uncomplicates. Learn more at Freshworks.com.

1:00Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. Hi, this is Knox from the Popcast with Knox and Jamie. And maybe like us at the Popcast, you also know people who have been smokers or vapors. And Zen is the one product it seems like everyone is talking about. Because there are many good reasons to make a change to Zen nicotine pouches. Reasons like Zen nicotine pouches are still America's number one choice for smoke-free, hands-free nicotine satisfaction. And you can choose between 10 varieties, each variety available in either 3 or 6 milligrams.

1:33Check out zen.com slash find to find Zen at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. There's a part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently, I know what funny is. Funny bought me a house, but I also know what isn't funny. OCD. I've lived with OCD my entire life, and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented, unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for OCD, it can actually make things worse.

2:16That's why I want to tell you about NoCD. NoCD is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. Their licensed therapists specialize in ERP, the most effective treatment for OCD. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, go to NOCD.com to book a free 15-minute call. They are here to help. Before we begin, a quick content warning that this episode contains discussion of suicide, which some listeners might find upsetting. Hello, everyone. My name is Jamie Lang, and this is Great Company.

3:01Well, hello, producer Jemima. Well, hello, Jamie Lang. How are you, my sweet lady? I am really busy. That's okay. Feeling festive? Do you know what I only just realised the other day it's December. Wow, so you're as busy as me as well. So we're just busy together at the moment. I know it is December, but the other day I think I had to write the date for something. You know at school when you'd write your date every day? Yeah. I don't do that every day. No. So it doesn't always really hit home. Don't get me back into being a child because I absolutely love this child. You love talking about your inner child.

3:35I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Hey, Merry Christmas to everyone. I think we can say that. No, we're still a few weeks off. Okay, well, I'm going to say Merry Christmas. Okay, fine. And also, this is the time of year when we get to the end of some big TV shows, like I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here and Strictly Come Dancing. I'm going to mention I got to the final of that show. Anyway, so because of the finals coming around the corner, we thought we'd get Parson on, who is very much part of the amazing furniture of Strictly Come Dancing. She sits on the judging panel of Strictly Come Dancing.

4:10it is the one the only shirley ballast shirley ballast what a wonderful wonderful woman i so enjoyed doing all her research she is fascinating she's lived a life she's lived a life she also gets a lot of heat a lot of the time for being her i believe that people are really harsh on her the whole time and and she she has this amazing armor around her that she sort of holds herself to a certain place and what's amazing about shirley is that she's an incredible dancer oh yeah I don't think you always appreciate kind of especially when they're the judges and you're like oh yeah they've won X, Y and Z when you actually like stop to like recognize she's the only person who's she's only won with two different partners yeah she's won she's a world champion with two different partners yeah incredible and like she's been dancing since she was 15 well professionally dancing yeah dancing since she was like two yeah it's amazing she's an incredible person with an amazing story and that is exciting but also there has been some controversy around Strictly Come Dancing.

5:10It's been in the press a lot. I'm going to try and tease that in there. Are you? What do you think? Well, I've been told expressly not to. I'm going to do it anyway. I know you are because you're you. I'm going to ask that question anyway. If anyone's listening, please know that I'm telling him not to. So producer of mine were told me not to, but I'm still going to ask the question because I've got to ask the question. You are Jamie. Exactly. So I'm ready for this. You excited for this? I'm really, really excited. I also think when someone has received kind of lots of negative publicity or negative attention, and they have this armor, there's a story behind that armor.

5:45And she is an amazing person. So I'm very excited for this. Remember, if you enjoy this episode, guys, we have loads of other episodes that you can go back to and listen to. We just last episode, we have Alex Earl, a big American, super digital talent. It's an incredible episode. And yeah, do you know what's really exciting about this podcast that we do, Jemima? What? My mum loves it. how does she she messages me and phones me every week saying she listens to her but she never listens to any of my stuff and she listens to this and enjoys it it's very sweet i remember sophie actually your wife saying i love it i'm around jamie all day so you wouldn't think i want to listen to him on a podcast but she was like but i do yeah she enjoys it um remember also before we start you can get in touch via instagram at great company podcast or you can send us an email great company at jam pop productions.co.uk everything is in the show description and if you haven't subscribed to this show already, please do.

6:34Okay, let's get on with the episode. Please enjoy the episode of Great Company with Shirley Ballas. Hi, I'm Shirley Ballas and I'm in Great Company.

6:49Obviously, I did strictly come dancing. I got to the final. I was there. I know you were. And when you broke your ankle or hurt, you fought whatever you did and they had to pull you out. You were there as well. I was there as well. But what people don't know is that we also hosted an event together once And we traveled all the way to Birmingham, I think it was And then we traveled all the way back Do you remember this? And we chatted the whole way I do remember And in the car Because, you know, I know you from Strictly And I know you from passing in corridors and talking about things But that was the first time that I would say that we became friends And I couldn't believe how...

7:30insanely fascinating your life is. Oh, well, there you go. Full of hard times and sad times, but happy times and love. And so today on this podcast, I want to try and capture all of that. Okay. In the space of an hour. So good luck. So I think we should start right at the beginning. Where did you grow up? I grew up in a place called Wallasey, which is just across the river from Liverpool. So the north of England and on a housing estate with a single mom and a brother. And times were very, very tough when we were little. You know, my mother is my, she's my queen. She is the true queen. She lives with me, you know, and I just love her to bits.

8:20What an amazing, amazing woman she is. How tough was it growing up? Well, I think when you don't have a father influence in your life, at the time you don't realize so much, but the other kids used to make fun of you. So you were the two kids that were getting the free school dinners and the other children would stand at the gate and say, you don't have a dad, you're on welfare. And they, you know, really quite mean to us. But I always took things, even my mom said from a young child, I'd be thinking, oh, I'm getting a free hot lunch here. It was awful for my brother. He struggled with it. You know, he didn't want to go for the free dinners.

8:55And I would say the kids were generally a little bit mean. Some of them were nice, but there was always that stigma attached to the fact that you were, you know, with a single mother and no father. That's a strange thing for kids to attack. I think kids get what they hear at home, you know, and I think most of them came from that unit of having moms and dads and brothers and sisters. As well, my mom, she was the one that had to go. She was the breadwinner, very proud my mother. and she had so many jobs just so that we could always have the best school uniforms clothes were always pressed and she did the best with the means that she had so I think that you know it was just difficult times all round back then I think what do you think it does because growing up without a dad your dad left when you were two right what is it having such a strong mother but an absent father what do you think that does to a young girl I think it was only years later that I used to look at my best friend, Karen, I've got a friend of over 50 years and she had that solid unit.

9:57And I used to look at her when the dad would be making a fuss of her, you know, and he'd be with her at all the competitions. And I used to think, what's it like to have somebody that you're their queen, you know, a dad always revolves around their daughters and little girls is my observation. So I would say it was later on in life that I struggled with it far more than when I was little. Of course, I had my mother there. She taught me work ethics. She had four jobs at one time, I remember, just to make ends meet. You name it, she did it. She wasn't proud. She did whatever she had to do to make it work for the family so that we could eat every week and have nice clean clothes.

10:34What does that teach you about work ethic? Well, what I've realized through my life, I was one of those people that I would say had above average talent, but my work ethic was off the chart. So if you worked four hours, I'd be the one working eight. and I think I've never been late for anything in my life. I've never missed a flight, you know, being on time, all these things for my life, making sure my private lessons, I was there on time, making sure I never lost my shoes because I only had one pair. Nothing in life is for free. You know, paying it forward was another thing that I learned from her.

11:08So some great lessons from her along the way, you know. Would you say no father has potentially impacted your relationships in your life? I would say my relationships have been a disaster all the way along the line all the way but having said that and this is only from my perspective I'm still friendly with Nigel Tiffany who was my first fiance at 16 he's my financial advisor today I left and then I ran ran off with this guy called Sammy Stockford and we went right to the top in the dancing and then I left and then I went to America and I married Corky 22 years there and then I left and then I've had a couple of boyfriends and that all ended in disaster and then currently as I've just split with my boyfriend six years so I don't really know you know I look back and I never had that example of that family environment you know and I look at other people and I love it when I see that there's still the mom and the dad and the kids and they all get there but what I am truly grateful is that at 87 I still have my mother you you know, and that she lives with me and I get these precious moments with her because she's the only thing, the only thing that's been a staple in my life.

12:20Wow. No friend, no marriage, no nothing. She's been the main staple in my life. And other than that, my son, and I have one or two good friends. I have a very small circle of people around me. I'm not the most trusting person at all. And I think that all comes from, you know, the childhood and the ups, the downs and having to do. I mean, I used to travel from age 10 all over the country on buses and trains while all the other kids, moms and dads took them, you know, and cars and things. No one ever asked me if I needed a ride or can we help you. So it was really fending for yourself from that age.

12:57And I mean, my dad could have bellied up and he could have said, oh, I can do this, I can do that. He never did anything, not even bought me a pair of dance shoes. so when he passed away two years ago and his sister said you know I think you should fight to get this this and this and I was like why he never gave me anything while I was alive why would I fight for something when he's passed wow do you know what I mean yeah so I think it just makes you a little bit hardened on the inside I did care for my dad I mean you only get one dad and throughout the years I did see him occasionally but nothing that was like deep we never talked about ever how I felt, you know, and he never asked me either.

13:34So when he died, were you sad? I went to the funeral and I tried to talk to my mom about it. I had very mixed emotions because I think when somebody's like, I couldn't, I'll get emotional just talking about this. I couldn't imagine losing my mother. That to me, I've been with that woman through ups, through downs, through her cancer, through the suicide of my brother, through just everything in my life. Now her, I couldn't imagine losing. That will be very traumatic for me. But I felt that, you know, because he'd passed. But like I say, I never had that girl-dad relationship, you know. And they told me after he passed, you know, your dad really did love you.

14:15Well, it was a shame I didn't hear it from him. You know, maybe in passing he might have said, I love you. But words to me don't mean a lot. Actions mean a lot to me. so and you know anyone listening family they always you know give it large there but the thing is they don't live in my life and they don't live in my shoes and they never lived that childhood you know so so do you think you find it hard to talk about things because how do I explain this you're so in the public eye and you're a judge on one of the biggest shows in the UK and everyone has an opinion and whatever anyone ever says or talks about there are always people who hit back with certain things oh you're not right here you're not there's always criticism whatever you do whatever you say you everyone else so do you find it hard to be vulnerable and be open in certain situations when I first got the job on Strictly Come Dancing in 2017 and my son who's been in television as you know Jamie or pretty much all his life he watched the first series and he said to me, if you don't drop your walls and the barrier that you have around you, I'm going to get emotional again.

15:24He said, you're far too, he said that it's stopping right here and you've got to let those walls down and you've got to share your experiences. And I think also in 2017, I was having such a bad time with press. You know, there was another time I remember that my mum had a friend came in and she had all the pictures of my brother on the wall and they sold those pictures to the press. You know, so 2017 was a very guarded place for me at the time and just people coming out the woodwork, selling stories that weren't true. In 2018, we decided that perhaps it wasn't right for me to take the job back.

16:00And again, my son stepped in and he said to my mother, I know you've had a lot of press and everything between the two of you, but maybe you should focus more on your charity work. And that's hence when I thought, okay, I'll spend 40 % spend my time dedicating it to the Suicide Foundation, Calm, Campaign Against Living Miserably, McMillan for Cancer, Alderay Children's Hospital, Centerpoint, all the different charities that I'm involved in. Hence, that's why I took it back in 2018. But I think over the years, I think I've learned to drop a little bit more and I've never talked really about my father in any interview, really, a little bit, but around the edges, never really that deep feeling that it leaves a girl, a young girl that could have done with a dad there, you know, while I was growing up.

16:48Actually, even I look back and, you know, my brother, he needed a man in his life, I felt. We had a guy that kind of stepped in every now and again, my Auntie Mavis, his husband. But he didn't have that father-son role model. There was no role model there for my brother. And I felt sad for that. Years later, when you look back on your life, you know, I felt, you know, Had he even just stepped up, he was that kind of dad that we'd get ready on a Sunday. He might say, I'm coming to get the kids on a Sunday. My mum would get us all ready in the little council flat, you know, best clothes on, standing by the window.

17:23Never turned up. Over and over and over again. And then, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, my mum would go to the little corner phone box and let him have it because that's what she does. And he would say, oh, don't worry, I've got the gifts are in the mail. never received a gift, never got a Christmas gift, never got a Christmas card or a birthday card or you know I can remember you know you remember things in your life. I remember one time when he eventually did pick us up and he said his mother was going to cook us this dinner. We turned up at the door she didn't even know we were coming so I remember that they had to share out this roast dinner that had probably been made for like three people that suddenly now you've got an extra four.

18:02I never got a roast potato by the way I've never forgotten that. It was divvied out and And even as a small child, you just got that feeling that no one knew you were coming. So it was things like that. And they were very few and far between. He visited me another time in Yorkshire when I moved there when I was 15. Yeah, so it wasn't the greatest of relationships, should we say. Let me rephrase that. It'll always be my dad, but it wasn't a deep relationship that we could share things with, you know. Shelley, it's so funny as kids what we remember. You do. When you are, as my point is, as children, when you're promised something, you think it's real.

18:40And especially from your parents. Well, as I've grown older now, there's several things I don't do. So lessons in life, you can play the victim and you can say, well, I'm like that because of this. Or you can look at the situation and think, I will never be like that. So I've never been like that. So if I make a promise to the best of my ability, I will carry it through. if I see somebody needs help I will be the person that they're to try my best to help and I never had that attitude with my own son or you know anybody I helped raise along the way so the lesson I learned from him is that's not the person I ever want to be Have you ever done therapy?

19:1517 years of it Congratulations I did as well I love therapy It's amazing isn't it? Because you can sit and talk the man used to put his feet up Dr. Stoll his name was he used to put his feet up on the couch and go gosh it's like Coronation Street there Shirley give us this sweet saga every week I had a saga so yeah I loved him the the reason why I said is that I remember a therapist once said to me which is and again I sort of don't generalize things but they said oh when you when you have your father's love you know you can be loved yourself and sometimes without that it makes you not love yourself because you can't feel the love and so perhaps that happens in life as well yeah people say you know do you love yourself are you happy and i just say what's happy oh sure because happy is different things to different people you know so and i've been studying that because that's my expression that i've used pretty much all my life you know because i'm constantly moving i'm on the moving so i don't know whether it's are you running away from something you know you're not comfortable within your own skin so to speak trying to learn about that even at 64 analyzing my feelings from the past but yeah what is happy to you what I've learned happy for me now is I've got this little grandson and I enjoy my FaceTime call every day with my son I've got one of those children I'm blessed to all the families out there that my son calls me the majority of the time every day and I have that relationship with him and I like being with my mother when she's cooking in the evening.

20:48And everything else for me is just moving along the bus and keeping moving. It's funny how we do that in life, right? I think I definitely was sort of victim to that where I just filled my life, my time with being distracted because then sitting in the silence with ourselves was almost too uncomfortable. Because then thoughts and feelings and everything come and say, oh, I don't want to really feel this. So I'm just going to distract myself and keep busy. And then you don't have to think about what's going on. Well, you and I are exactly the same because if I get time off, which is very rare because I keep myself busy, I will be the one that sits there and I will go back all over the past.

21:23Who did what, said what, what happened to my brother, my guilt feelings from that, you know, my father, just different things throughout my life. Could I have made this marriage work? Should I have stayed here? Should I have done? Should I, should I, should I, should I, should I, should I. you know all I keep saying at the end of the day when I've rounded all that up is the way my life moved I'm blessed to have had my son and without the journey I took I wouldn't have him and then I wouldn't have my grandson that's exactly it you wouldn't so it's fate if you want it's 100 directions that you choose you know I was just talking to my ex-husband the other day and he made some sarcastic crack which he does on a daily basis and he's got a beautiful son who's an opera singer, Samuel.

22:04And I said to him, you know, had we have stayed together, you wouldn't have Samuel and I wouldn't have Mark. So, you know, we both agree on that, even though there was a lot of pain with us splitting up, you know, so. That was my first husband, by the way, just in case you get confused. I've had a few. We're going to get into them.

22:25When was the first time you danced? The first time I danced was two years old and ballet. My mother put me in ballet and tap. And I just always, she said, even though I couldn't do anything, I wanted to be the star. And then at seven years old, I was doing resuscitation on a dummy for the girl guides in a church hall in Liso. And I could hear this music playing in the room next door. So I kind of moseyed over as a seven-year-old does. So drawn by the music. And there was this big brown door with a piece of glass circle hole in. I pull myself up and I can see everybody moving. And I knocked on the door and I said to the man, what's going on?

23:03He said, well, this is the waltz. And then he said, sit down. And he put a cha-cha on. The waltz was Moon River and the cha-cha was wheels. And he said, and we've got children's classes starting on Saturday. So I was like, wow, you know, I'm here for this, but this has happened. So I rushed home and told me, I told her about this lovely music I'd heard. She said, oh, I'm not sure about putting you an event she really didn't have any money how much is it I said the class is 15p she's would you require shoes I said no no no no no shoes nothing required it turned out to be one of the most expensive hobbies I'd ever done in my life but uh yeah that's how it started and I never ever missed any time except for when I had my son and six weeks after he was born I was back at it so there was one point you said there which is and you for anyone who's listening to this you said you were drawn by the music.

23:53Yes. And you sort of made that point important. Why is that important? Because people think, you know, that you find dance. And I didn't find dance first. I found music first. And then I saw people moving to music. I didn't know what they were doing, but they were moving to music. And then when he told me it was the waltz to Moon River, I thought, well, I don't know what that is, but it looks pretty. And I started those children's classes. I loved the music. I still love music today. And I just love the way the body feels when it's moving, you know. Bitch. I just love it. I'm married to it. It served me well, much better than husbands.

24:30Just kidding, boys. Just kidding. It's funny. I was in America recently and there's a musician called John Batiste. Randomly, I was at this event and he was playing there just by chance. And it was almost religious watching him. I can't explain it. It was as if he was put on earth to play music. And when he was playing the piano and he was singing and he was so in it, he just, it engulfed everything about him. And I imagine when you found dance and dance, it's exactly the same thing for you. It's part of you. Well, so many of my friends, the whole of the housing estate ended up going to that school.

25:10I mean, I had a little girl partner called Irene Hamilton. We danced together from seven till about 11. they all went but I was the only one who kept it going you know through difficult moments I know had Irene to start with as a girl partner then I got a little boy partner called David Fleet when I was 12 14 I got a little chance to dance with Nigel Tiffany open to the world British ballroom champion I was a no one but to dance with him was required to leave home so I left home at 14 and a half to move to Yorkshire and there was difficult I was living with another family in a council property.

25:45I was grateful, but there was a lot of us living in a small home and his mum was very, very, very strict. So at 16, I decided to move to London and I was off, you know, to see the world and get myself an apartment and find myself a job that I was not qualified for. I can still remember it was a secretary for Parsons and Whittemore Lyddon Limited in Croydon. And it was the end of the day when I got that job underqualified, but the man felt sorry for me. His name was Simon burn if you're still there thank you for the job because that helped me pay for my dancing so I was on and on and on and on just trying to do something I never was trying to win I just loved dancing I wanted to see how I could progress you know and then given other choices and options and the road I took that helped me get where I was going when you're seven years old you start dancing and you start getting into it your mother is putting you in the dance classes and taking you to these classes.

26:43She never took me to the classes. You just took a bus every time? All the time. For age seven, I walked. That is so dangerous, Shelley. Well, it wasn't back then. It didn't feel like it was back then. It wasn't. You're seven, eight, nine. You're young. I know, but I used to walk the couple of miles to the church hall, come, you know, sunshine, hell, high, rain, whatever. And that's why she said, I watched you always on time, always wanting to go. So the more I did that, the harder she worked. and then of course that was just a couple of miles from the house. Once I started going to Liverpool for lessons with this new boy partner David Fleet I got, then it was required I had to walk to the bus stop, a bus to the train station from Liso station to Liverpool central, run across Liverpool central to the Ribble bus station and get a bus that took an hour journey across to Crosby.

27:33It wasn't so bad going at five o 'clock, it was awful coming back at night at 11 o 'clock at 10 and 11. So, you know, and then we go to different competitions and I was always catching a ride home to see if somebody could at least drop me close to where I lived. My mother came once a month to the Capitol Ballroom in Liscard to watch me dance. It was close to the house. And if I went to Blackpool, she was always at Blackpool, but she couldn't go with me every week. We had Sunday circuit comps. She couldn't go. It was a matter of, you know, you find your way there. You'll have to talk to somebody to try to bring you back.

28:08And then that's what I did. I was insistent though, you know, even leaving home, she thought I'd last about six weeks and come home. But I just always had this kind of fighting personality. I loved it that much, that where there was a will, there was a way. And like I say, it taught me an awful lot of skills. Which that is, you're a young woman traveling back late at night from these places. That's It's quite a scary, surely place to be on these buses late at night, 11 o 'clock. I always sat by the driver on the Ribble bus. And when I had to run across from the Ribble bus station to what it was, Liverpool Central, back then.

28:46You would run? I would run. And I could feel the sweat running by my back. But I was very vigilant. I just had that in me. And then I'd get on the train. And instead of getting off at Liso Station, I'd go across to Hoy Lake, which is where my mother worked in Finnegan Steakhouse. and then I'd stay with her till she left at two in the morning or whatever. And I learned how to wait and help wash dishes and do things like that. So I was very hands-on. I've never not had a job, you know, from about 13, whether it was working in the hairdressers, I could cook a roast dinner by the time I was 11. Did you really?

29:19Yeah. My mum was out working and David would have his list. He was always on grocery, the, you know, vegetables, grocery, and I was from the co-op. So we both had separate lists and then together we learned how to do a roast dinner. So when she got in, we had the dinner ready. Wow, you became an adult so quickly. Very quick. I think, you know, on that housing estate, fending for yourself, you know, my brother had a tough time at one point on that housing estate and I was always the one who managed to sort of divert and go. He was also very strict though when my mother was out. He was 18 months older than me.

29:52And if I so much as even thought I'll go and hang at the corner with a couple of friends, I'd see him across the field and he'd come legging it and I'd run home and he said you're going to be a dancer you're not going to hang on the housing estate and he would never let me never and strict and I'd hide myself in the bathroom and he'd just sit there until I'd eventually open the door and make promises that I would never hang out on street corners due to him because there was a lot of untoward there on the housing estate Shelley your brother took his own life He did. I'm so sorry. This week, actually, on the 5th of December.

30:3021 years ago. 21 years ago? 22? 21? 21 years ago. Yeah, it's gone amazingly fast, I have to say. When I'm an ambassador for Calm as well, Campaign Against Living Miserably, amazing campaign, amazing charity that supports people who are really struggling. And we all struggle, and we all have our boulder. And, you know, the really sad thing in this country is that I spoke to Simon, who's the CEO of KAM, who's an amazing guy. The biggest killer for under 45 now is suicide, which is mad that, you know, people feel hopeless enough that they just have to end their own life. When that happens to someone so close to you, like your brother, what does it do?

31:26Well, first of all, all those years ago, there was nothing like calm. We were totally uneducated and I was wrapped up in my life because at that time I had two other children I was taking care of plus my own son. And they were all dancers and I was just wrapped up in my world of ballroom dancing. I was in London. He was up north and my mother went to stay with him for six weeks, but my mother's old school and they don't share. So what I should have done then, if I look back now, is gotten the car straight away and gone to see the situation for myself. He was just in a bad place. He explained it like being in a dark black hole that he couldn't climb out of.

32:02He'd lost a lot of weight and the doctors couldn't help him. We tried to get him sectioned. And when apparently I wasn't there, but my mum was, when they took him in the car and they pulled up to the hospital, he recognized somebody that was stood on the steps and he was too, he was the macho man on the housing estate and he was too embarrassed. He made them turn the car around. So had she not been there that day, then maybe things could have been different. And it just, nobody talked about things like that. No one talked about things like that at all. And they just popped in with pills, you know, like these antidepressants.

32:36And it was just difficult all around. I still remember the morning it happened. And I call my mom to say that Mark, my son, would be performing at St. Paul's Church in London. And maybe they both like to come down for the day. And my brother said, no, no, no, no. I'm feeling much better now. But you go, mom. And against a better judgment, she didn't want to go. And I pushed her to go a little bit because she'd been there, you know, and was having this tough time. David didn't want to go. And it was that day he chose to do that. So for that, I will live with for the rest of my life. she blames herself but i blame myself because i was the one pushing her to go she felt she shouldn't have left um sherry you can't blame yourself i know but you really can't but you do but you do no but you can't just was what was what it was you know he left a 10 year old daughter and um of course i couldn't get hold of him that night so i called his ex-partner and she went round and she was the one who found him at the house with her son and then of course she died of alcoholism several years later.

33:35So Mary lost both parents. So we've taken care of her and she is, to me, she's a hero. She's the most, she works for the NHS and she's the most remarkable human being ever. Again, similar to me, you can play the victim or you can think this is what it is. Of course it's difficult. This is what it is. And I want to be this person. I have a short life and this is what I want to be this person. She'll never give me a spot of bother ever in her entire life. So, and my brother raised her for the first 10 years of her life. So I think he did a good job. Thank you for sharing that, Shelley. Yeah, it's difficult.

34:14It's so difficult. I can feel the emotion. It's just, because what's so awful about suicide is it's a instant, it's a solvable situation. And if you take that road, there's no going back. and it's so sad because it's just one thing in that day that can make you trigger. It doesn't need to be that way though, you know. Now, of course, I'm much more educated and that's what was so great about Strictly. I love the job, but the platform it gives you to help people, you know, and we get wrapped up in our own life. But if I don't hear from a friend or I think somebody's struggling, I then stop everything I'm doing and then I will go around and sort of do my best to try to check in.

34:53And I think that's what we can do is we have to be more tuned in, listen more to what people are saying instead of yapping off that gob. You know, a gob is that in the North of England. Gob, gob, gob, gob. Because that's what a lot of people do. They're so busy talking about themselves. They don't take a breath to listen to somebody else. And it's so important to talk and share these things. It is so important because someone will be listening to this conversation now and hopefully feel better or go and talk to a friend or neighbor or a brother or sister or someone and potentially save someone.

35:27Yeah. And that is what's so important about it. I don't think we should be afraid of sharing all these things. Well, I think that we're in a new era now where people are more sharing. I mean, now I'm ambassador for Calm, like yourself. So many people. I mean, I've just had friends who've lost their daughter. She was in her early 30s. And it's just horrendous. I know so many people in different realms that have been affected by it. They know a friend or a family member or a child or something. And it's more prevalent than perhaps people have time to think about. But I think if we all would communicate more with each other and help each other a little bit more, take a breath.

36:07You know, I'm always trying to do that now as I'm getting older. Just take a step back for a minute and breathe, you know, have a look at what's going on around you.

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38:28You got engaged to one of your partners. Can you understand the Strictly curse? can you understand why people seem to get very close to their partners well i can go and i can look at stacy and kevin clifton look at that beautiful relationship there with their gorgeous child and gawker with his beautiful wife you know sometimes relationship works like i say i stay in my lane i'm there to judge cha-cha-cha leg action foot action body action synchronization lovely neckline, lovely posture. Rotate your choreography, darling. I don't get too involved in the Strictly Curse. When I was dancing with Karen, we used to, he was just amazing.

39:09We would go into every interview and every interview would be asking, are you, are you, come on, it's Strictly Curse. With me and Karen, they never asked me once. And I said in the interview, why? And they went, well, look at her compared to you. And I was like, you're kidding me? We could be, we could be dating beautiful girl karen love her you got a great partner there but you know like people say about this strictly curse in strictly come dancing i could say it anywhere in the workplace anywhere it could be the bank could be here could be there could be the supermarket paths cross people fall in love or when you're locked in a room for four months with each other you know maybe things happen i don't know i'm not there like i say stay in your lane surely Now this bit is going to be tricky for you because there has been some controversy recently Oh, oh, where's my brandy?

40:04I know we're not allowed to discuss it, but when controversy hits like that in a show like that, how as part of the show do you move past it? Do you just go, hmm, okay Well, I can't speak for the show I always say that I can only ever speak for myself I've known Giovanni 10 years, as I've said in many interviews. I have never met a more grounded, kind person to me. Now, that doesn't in any way do I condone bullying because no one has been through bullying more than me. So I think the BBC did a thorough investigation. It took a long time. They did a thorough investigation. And for the most part, and I don't remember the statistics, he got cleared.

40:46So that's enough for me. And then we just keep moving down the bus and bring joy to people every single week so they can sit there and enjoy Strictly Come Dancing, which is a family show that hopefully will continue for another 20-odd years or more. Can I say this, though? You know, Strictly, which I didn't really... Didn't you have a great time then? You loved it, didn't you? You brought us all so much joy every week. I loved every moment of it because... Okay, this is my take on it. Strictly Come Dancing is a show about learning to dance Correct When you have to learn to dance The waltz, the cha-cha, the American smooth, whatever it is It's like learning a new language Correct And when you have a week to do that Well, you don't really have a week, do you?

41:38By the time you do the VTs and you travel here and you do that And it takes two and you take all that time away You're lucky if you get four days You get four days to learn a new language. And when you're then partnered with someone who is a professional dancer, they've done it maybe since their age of 15 years old, like you did. You suddenly realize I did. This is from my personal point of view. You go, shit. This is not as easy as I thought it was going to be. This is tough. And it's not a show. People, I think, go on to the show thinking it's going to be lovely and this and that. It's a dancing competition.

42:15It's hard work. It is hard work. It's a lifetime of work condensed into a few months. And I think that people at home would really like to know that, you know, those professionals have got to get you live, ready for live TV on that Saturday evening. In front of 30 million people watching. But by Wednesday, you've got to be ready for your wides. Oh, God. Do you remember? I used to, when we trained, you would train in different rooms around each other. I would leave my room and look in the other room to see if someone knew how to do a Cuban break because I didn't even know what the fuck a Cuban break was.

42:51And it was Wednesday. Absolutely. It was horrendous. You've got wardrobe. You've got to get your act together with your partner. You need to learn all the choreography a minute and 20 or however long you're doing it. All as much technique as you possibly can. And then you've got to do your wide by Wednesday. A wide means that the camera is taking an overall view of what the performance is going to be for Saturday. And then by Friday, you're in all rehearsals. and by Saturday you're doing your dress run and you've got to be out live in front of 15 million people. That is not an easy feat for any professional, including myself, if I was doing the job that any of the other boys and girls have to do.

43:29It's not easy. It is a responsibility of the professional to make sure that you look the best you can look by that Saturday evening. And that's why I always say at the beginning of the series, listen to your teacher, don't whine or complain. you know if you get blisters on your feet get a pair of flat shoes but keep moving get as much information as you can in those first couple of days so that you've got it in your mind the choreography and the timing and then any small details after that is amazing but it is the most spectacular time of your life it's like and do you know what it taught me beyond anything which is which was the most powerful thing which i think you have learned obviously since you were so young it taught me insane resilience and i'm pretty resilient in lots of ways you know for different reasons but it taught me resilience in the sense where when you get given this sounds so strange that dance can do this to you but i i almost want to look down the i kid you not you get given the cha-cha let's say on i know the end of the week and on monday you go into land monday tuesday a bitter Wednesday, you have no idea what you're doing.

44:39And your brain is going to mush. And you're thinking, I'm about to go out in front of 15 million people. This is going to be the most embarrassing thing. Because it's remembering the sequence, the order of the steps. That's before you even get to the timing. It's everything. But what it teaches you is that I never, I thought I put myself in uncomfortable situations or put pressure on myself to achieve something. There There's nothing quite like that. And when you really push yourself, you can really achieve anything you want to. You really can. Whether that's learning an instrument, learning languages, getting the job you want, learning a dance.

45:14That's what it taught me because you really are scared at the beginning. And then by the end of the week, when the Saturday show comes, you get through it and you're like, holy smokes, I've just done that. And you're like, I can kind of achieve anything. It's an unbelievable feeling. The moment you sign up and you read all the rules and regulations and they share with you what the show is about is nothing in comparison to your first day when you go in and put your shoes on and you think, okay, you know, I think it's the most fantastic accomplishment when you can go in as a complete non-dancer and end up doing something by the end of the run.

45:52It's absolutely sensational to have watched over the eight years, all these different boys and girls. And of course, Dancing with the Stars, I used to watch them all for years and over 20 years now. I've been following both shows. So I think you did remarkably well, didn't you? Got in the final. It got to the final. Most dancers ever. I want to know on the semi-final when they called your name for the final. Yeah. Didn't you think? That is fantastic. All those months of work and here I am standing. Shall I? Do you want to hear a secret? Yes, tell me a secret. When I'm alone at home, occasionally, I re-watch my semi-final dance.

46:28Do you? On YouTube. But you go back and you think, I did that. Yeah, it's amazing. And everything and anything is possible. Everything is possible. Even when I signed up to do the Masked Singer, I can't sing. My son Adia buds in when I was trying to sing to him. You know, but I wanted to go out and show that, try, try. You've got to do it. Enjoy it. You've got to try. One life to live. Get signed up, Miranda. Come on now, get signed up, Miranda. Oh, wouldn't she be amazing? I've been following her. Do you follow her? Yeah, yeah. We've tried to get on the show. She's amazing. She was there at our show at the weekend.

47:03She's amazing. She is. So who's going to win? You know, what I love about the final the most is that the judges don't need to pick the winner. That the audience viewers at home pick the winner and I think they always get it right. Well, maybe not in your case. Not my year, though. But they do. They've picked the winner that they're all comfortable with. Millions and millions and millions of votes. Of course, Christmas Causland has been outstanding, as has Pete. Raw beginners. These are your two raw beginners that have come in, you know. Chris is unbelievable. They're unbelievable. But all of them, all of them from the very, very beginning, I felt was one of the strongest casts we've ever had on Strictly Come Dancing.

47:43It was very difficult to send anybody home at any stage and any point. Do you think there's such a thing as natural talent or is it hard work and good teaching? I think there's such a thing as natural talent. I've seen some people who come on to the floor, let's take the year that you couldn't dance on Strictly and Kelvin came and did his samba. That's a gift that the way the body coordination of the body moves. So there is a natural talent, but talent isn't what I've learned in my industry. The main thing you need a little bit of talent, you need a very good brain and you need work ethic beyond anything that you've ever done in your life.

48:19So a mediocre dancer has got all these three things. I've seen win major championships and I've seen some immensely talented people not make the final. But you look at them and you think, oh my God, you should be winning. They're as thick as two short planks. They're not pliable. They don't adapt. Their work ethic is terrible. They're always late. They never turn up on time. They pull out of things when you, you know, like I didn't feel well today. You know, I've got a sore throat. I was in bed all day yesterday. But you'd have to drag me out of bed not to come and do this podcast for you. But some people don't have that.

48:51the minute they get like a man cold, sorry to do that, a little man cold. It's true, listen, I... When my son has a man cold, he's in bed for three days, you know, mom. I was saying to my wife, she was like, shut up. I was like, this doesn't feel very well. So yeah, you've got to have a lot more ingredients to be a world champion. And then again, if you look at like Strictly, and we're coming now to the end of Strictly, it's not even about the talent or what they've learned. It's about the brain now, because the bodies are tired, they're exhausted, they've been going nonstop, and now they've got these final few shows that they've got to do.

49:29So they've got to really pull a strength, an inner strength from inside them, and a mental capacity that can keep them focused as they move into two dances. It's not easy to do. Not easy on Strictly, and it's certainly not easy in my industry. And it's not for the weak-hearted.

49:49when you were young and you were traveling around and going you know you're leaving home at 15 years old and getting engaged at 15 almost 16 that was it married nigel i love you i love you he was probably but nigel was probably the right person at the wrong time. 16 is pretty young, I would think. I can't speak for you, but I would say that we don't quite know ourselves at 16 years old of making a decision to marry. He was four years older than me. We were living together with his family and then we moved to London together. We were dancing together. He was kind. He was caring. And maybe, just maybe, because I'd never had that in my life from a man, yeah that fatherly thing he he kind of filled that void you know that need for me and then of course when he and I split and then I went on to be with Sammy he also had that kind of same feeling you know so I don't you know what do you know about love at 16 and then again at 18 when I got married what what do you know because you change don't you things change and I can tell you at 16 though love is the strongest wow I never dated I never went out to nightclubs or never or anything I never did that never had that was always dancing so who was the first person you kissed I was the first person I kissed I think was somebody when I was about 11 on the back of a coach can't remember his name but I can see his face you know when we're all going to a competition and he just kind of put his arms around me gave me this little cheeky kiss on the side of the mouth.

51:28So that was cute. I think David Fleet, I had a little snog there with him and a couple of others along the way, but that's all it was, was a little kiss, you know. So Nigel was my first true love. At that age, I remember I spoke to this when I was 16, that was my heartbreak. Oh my, I remember I was so in love. I was so in love at 16 because you don't understand the feeling. You don't get it. You're like, what is this feeling that I'm experiencing. What is this? It's crazy, right? I'm not sure I was always in touch with my feelings. You weren't? I don't think I was in touch with them. I didn't really know what to feel.

52:02I just kept moving down the bus. Really? Yeah. I think my first true love that I ever really felt something really passionate was when I left Sammy and I thought I was moving in with Corky into Houston, Texas. That was my second husband. And I felt at first, you know, this is it. we met somewhere and there was chemistry and a connection and I thought this is what love must be but six weeks after being with him after I'd left my husband I realized that wasn't right either I tried to come back and then my first husband basically said see you fuck you yeah basically and um so and then I said to my mum well I'm not sure this is right for me she said well you made your bed you better lie in it wait break this out so explain to us what so what happened so you're You're married to Nigel.

52:50So I was engaged to Nigel. Engaged to Nigel. We moved to London. Yeah. We were doing very well in the ballroom, Waltz, Foxtrot, Tango, Quickstep, not so good in the Latin. Then my teacher gave me an opportunity to have a tryout with Sammy. And I said to her, well, I've got to talk to Nigel. She said, don't talk to Nigel. She said, you've got 10 minutes to make your mind up if you want to have a tryout with this man who's potentially going to be the next world champion as a professional. So I said, I'll take the tryout, you see. After 10 minutes, I'll take the tryout, even though I was engaged to Nigel.

53:21Wow. But I did go home and tell Nigel, tomorrow I'm having a tryout with Sammy Stafford. Are you okay with that? He threw me out with all my black plastic bags. Then I had nowhere to go. Wait, hang on. You've got to talk me through that emotion though, because... Hang on a second. Hang on a second. Follow my life is quite difficult. Oh my. So you're young, okay. You're engaged to this person. And you get offered this chance to dance with Sammy. I'm now almost 17 you're almost 17 and that is a big way to come home and you're living with Nigel yes and to say that to him he was doing the ironing so you walk in the door and you know what you're about to say and I'm very nervous wow but I said to him you are the most remarkable ballroom dancer and I feel in my heart that I'm a Latin dancer whilst vox drop cha-cha, samba, all those dances I feel like I'm a Latin dancer you're a ballroom dancer you know we could still be married we could be engaged but let me have this opportunity and he didn't want me to have that so he said if you go we're done and then just stood there looking at him kind of when I go back now a little bit of an empty feeling I just said well I want to try I want to go I need some packy stuff so I did and then I met a girl called Denise Weavers they they found a place for me to stay overnight I went for the tryout the next day with Sammy into the studio with our mutual coach.

54:48He said, I don't know who you are. I don't know where you come from, but you've got this tryout with me because of our teacher. And I just did a few steps with him and he said, wow, you feel amazing. You can come home with me. And that's how it all started. Nigel was outside in our little yellow mini waiting to see if it worked or it didn't. It was just a mess. You know, when I look back now, it was a mess, but when you're in it I just thought wow this is a great opportunity maybe I'm going to be able to do my Latin now I mean I wasn't a great Latin dancer I was okay but I wasn't great but I think I had potential and then we shot straight to the top as professionals and within six months we were third in the world so and then I got married because the teacher didn't like my surname which was Rich we were piss poor broke and she said it doesn't ring well Sammy Stopford and Shirley Rich it needs to be Sammy and Shirley Stopford, the non-stop Stopfords.

55:38And that's what she named us. And that's every article that came out in the dance press. And we were together until I met Corky when I was about 22. When you first danced with Sammy, did it just feel like, did it just flow? Did you feel it was working? Well, he was ranked really high, seventh as a professional in the world. And he was like silk to dance with. Explain that for someone who doesn't know. So in our industry, we have some people who really use quite physical leads to move each other. And he didn't believe in that. He believed in efficiency. So he wanted me to be able to dance alone and he could dance alone.

56:12And as two people coming together, we had such a sensitive silk-like touch. So we never got tired. We were never exhausted because we didn't use a physicality of lead. Wow. And yeah, he was amazing to dance with and an amazing dancer. And basically, he taught me the industry. and then, of course, we had that drama where I met Corky on a trip that Sammy and I were doing, and I met Corky, and I fell in love, and then I left, and I moved to Houston. I never thought I wanted to dance again. Oh, have me back, Sammy. Basically, fuck off. You're not coming back. So then I thought, well, what shall I do with Corky?

56:49Because it was just so much fun, and as a love relationship. So Corky was the one that you maybe first really loved? First one I felt a deep emotional connection with. Got it. But maybe I was just needed that, you know, it was nights out and fun. I'd never had that in my life. And he was a chef, fantastic chef, made a great banoffee pie. Anyway, so I thought, well, I better teach him to dance. So in 1984, I... This is mad. This is mad. In 1983, I won the British Open to the World Championships with Sammy. Yeah. In 1984, I came back to dance it with Corky. Sammy was second and I never got out of the second round.

57:33And what that means is, let's say if a thousand couples entering, we were in the thousand. Yeah. So you win a title one year and you're dumped the following year. Wow. So I thought, well, I better try a bit harder. And I used all the technique and tactics that I'd learned from Sammy and adopted them with Corky. And in the middle of all that, I had a baby. So that was unexpected. but in 1995 we came back Corky and I to win the British Open to the World Championships and Sammy was second so it was quite you know he was high flying all those years while he was never got lower than second or first I was going from the first round and you know climbing climbing climbing from 1983 to 1995 so I was the only woman to ever win it with two people and the only one to be in the final 17 times you know with two different partners it was quite you're like you're like the Meryl Streep of Oscars well I never gave up I learned how to adapt to the industry when they had forsaken me because I left dancing for Great Britain and went off to America you know and then I moved back when I was 30 in 1990 with a little four-year-old and my husband thinking okay I've got to make this move move back to Great Britain represent Great Britain and let me just see if we could make the final and we did and then we won twice 95 and 96 okay so i wonder if anyone and then that marriage fell apart so there you go but i held that trophy three times and i had the most adorable baby and i had twists and turns along the way and up and down and round that even my mother couldn't keep up with me wait just for anyone who doesn't understand how competition works when you go in into a dance competition firstly how brutal is and second how does it what?

59:21There are rounds, there are people? There are rounds. So there are qualifying rounds. So let's use a thousand couples from all over the world and let's imagine the winter gardens. So all thousand couples come in and then, you know, there's rounds. So if you don't qualify in the first round, the first, let's say a hundred couples are out and then they just keep going down. You have the 96 and then you have the 48 and the 24 and the semi-final 12 couples until you get to the final six. So it's an elimination process. So even to get to the 24 or the semifinal is fantastic when you think of all the amount of couples that we have all over the world.

59:59But to win any of those prestigious titles, let alone win it twice with two different partners, will go down quite historically in the industry, I think. So I've been there with a meteoric rise and I've been there when I've had to start from scratch. But starting from scratch for me, living that comfortable lifestyle with Sammy and everything and starting from scratch was not a big deal because I was raised with not a pot to piss in. So it wasn't a big deal for me. And I have never, ever been attached to materialistic things. So furniture, homes, I've moved about 27 times in my life. I've been well off.

1:00:39I've been super broke, you know, and I've, you know, always managed, like my mom says it rings in my ear you've got good work ethic and you'll take any job to earn a living you'll be just fine but if your ego tells you i have to be this and i have to be that you're going to struggle so i've done everything from hairdressing to you know keep fit classes to you name it throughout my life but starting to get from the beginning has never been a big deal for me it's unbelievable i've left you wordless a little bit because it's just there are so many questions that I have for you for you know you you you it's like a movie to me you would have stayed with Sammy if it was about just winning so then it couldn't have just been about winning because you married Corky who was a chef so it was about love but also you then trained a chef I don't even know this you trained a chef and that's why I understand everybody on Strictly Come Dancing.

1:01:41And a lot of people don't know about me. I mean, at the very, very beginning, I was the one who got the opportunity to have the meteoric rise. But when I fell apart and left and all that drama and then got with Corky, I was the one as a female who had to teach a male to dance. Wasn't accepted in our industry. Was it not? No, because we're male dominated. So I had to take this beginner who, like I said, was a great chef, the Westchase Hilton Hotel that's still there in Houston, Texas and teach him how to dance. And he was by far the most difficult person I ever had because he had this great love of himself.

1:02:18And he would say, you stick with me, Shirley, I'll take you places. You know, he couldn't put one foot in front of the other. So, but what I learned from Corky was resilience. I had that already, but he doubled downed on that. They used to skit at him, laugh at him. He'll never be a great dancer, you know, because we weren't getting out the first or second round. He used to wear a suit of armor. And when we'd walk on the dance floor, he'd make this noise. And I was like, what are you doing? He goes, I'm bulletproof. And that's how he was. So he got to do that rise on his own terms. So when he won in 95 and 96, I couldn't be prouder that somebody had taken themselves, trusted me, got to that very, very top of the industry with not a positive person behind him.

1:03:02Did you want to marry Sammy or did your teacher push you into it? My teacher. So when I met Sammy, very strict, stern man, and I probably needed that because I didn't know anything. And like I say, she suggested that the name, the nonstop Stopfords was better than Shirley Rich. Sammy and I never went out on dates. We never went to restaurants on dinners. We never went clubbing as I learned that expression. he allowed me to go out on a couple of different things with other people but we never shared that and if I could go back now to the younger self and I'm sure if we could both go back and change things a little bit I think that we had this connection Sammy and I and as much as people in the industry have always tried to stop that connection I think we'll have it till the day that we die we've had our ups and downs we fought like cast and dogs over the years but I can still call him you know and I know in my heart that if my life fell apart tomorrow absolutely fell apart he could be that person that I could call I know he'd be there for me that makes me emotional I know that he would always be there for me even though we've had these ups and downs over the years and Nigel my financial advisor you know Nigel my first fiancee I think it's actually Honestly, you're, again, when I sat with you in that car driving back from Birmingham to London, and we sat for two hours, we chatted it, chatted through your life.

1:04:30Your life is just full of, it's a movie. It is really. And I know you've written your book and it's amazing. And people should go and read your book because it's just fantastic. And we'll leave a link in the description. But it is a movie. And it hasn't, it's sort of, there is this whole new chapter, new world that's beginning as well because you know I got you are newly single I'm newly single is there anyone out there you got any nice friends there for me Jamie maybe I do but you know I wrote behind the sequence my autobiography so that really my son and people that perhaps I'd never shared things with would it's easier for me to write than talk sometimes and then of course I couldn't write everything in that autobiography so my mum said why don't you write your other stories in fiction novel so that's where murder on the dance floor and dance to the death came so when you read those books you have to think did i witness it did i take part in it or is it fiction particularly when i'm talking about nipple clamping and slapping people on the bottom and what goes on behind the scenes and all the drama and everything else that goes on nipple clamping yes and you know it's been picked up as a six-part series the first book get out of here yeah see that is amazing yes you see you never know in the world what's going to happen next do you that is amazing i'm always trying to do different projects and just you know share and like i say everything that goes on all the drama in those books is definitely in my industry and not that that i've witnessed on strictly come dancing shelly you're an inspiration person to talk to because i just love your resilience i love the fact that you just your life has been a lot of down but it's also been up and it's and down like Like a roller coaster, darling.

1:06:16Yeah. Roller coaster. Roller coaster, but you just keep, you know, at the end of Strictly, they always say, keep dancing. And you do, you just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Well, when I die one day, I would like to be remembered for the people I helped. Not for the things that I did or the things that I gave, but for helping with my time to be able to help people, whether it's the next generation in the Boreham and Latin world or my charities, you know, calm and helping somebody not take their own life or something like that. That's what I'd like to be remembered for. and also for forgiveness.

1:06:46So when you're going into Christmas, if you've got people that you've fallen out with, try to move on. The life is so short, you know, so. It's beautiful. Shelley, we'd like to end the conversation with eight questions. You ready for this? Oh, you've got your answers? I don't have my answers, but I have your questions. A couple of them were a little bit difficult. Okay, well, you can just, whatever comes to your mind. Here we go, you ready for this? Yeah. What's a saying or phrase that always makes you smile or cheers you up? Good morning, Mother. How are you feeling today? I'm still breathing.

1:07:14Oh, lovely. I love that. She's 87. That makes me laugh every time. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? That they admire my ability to give back and to work on my charity work. And what a good job. And lots of cuddles and snuggle bunny cuddles I get from people that I've helped. What scares you most about yourself? Being alone. I don't like being on my own. I don't like being on my own. In fact, I hate being on my own. I don't like my own company. I think your company is amazing. Well, that's sweet. When was the last time you cried? December is always a cry time because obviously that's the time that David took his own life.

1:07:59So I would say I cry quite a lot, always with my mother if I'm feeling pretty low. She's the only person I feel like I can really open up with my tears. The rest of the time I feel like I have to put a very, very strong front on. but I cry with her and she cries with me so we do but we keep moving along it's amazing that under the sort of glitz and the glamour of strictly there is the sort of you know the dealing with the anniversary and things like that that's a lot to handle at the same time I can compartmentalize and I have a big red button that I've had and I've hung my shoulder and I could be in the saddest most awful time but if I press it it's lights camera action and on you go with it and then pick it up on your way out that's what my mother told me because it's true you never know what someone's going through yeah and that's why you can never judge because you never know yeah completely what's something you can't let go of um I'm trying to let go of a lot of things but I think a little bit hard to let go is that time with my dad not showing up and not being there and present I know he's passed now but and I'm still working on just letting it go like I say am very forgiving person but there are still times in my life when I think you know even when my brother died if he just stepped up and took care of Mary you know and helped us with Mary when she lost both her parents but he didn't so there's certain things in that that I'm still trying to let go of.

1:09:21Family runs deep always. What's something you'd be embarrassed for people to know you like or want? I don't have anything that I would be embarrassed for people to know you know So that's a good thing. I kind of share everything with people. Even when I had my boobs removed, I shared that. And when I had my teeth done, I shared that. I remember a journalist telling me once, Shirley, if you want people to talk about you, make sure you do your own narrative. So I've always learned to put my own narrative out first before the papers make it up. What turns you off? I think turns me off is a liar somebody who says they'll be there and isn't and that could come from my past if you say you're going to be there at 12 o 'clock please be there because it's your time and mine don't be a diva and what turns me on is great work ethic to see somebody excited about trying to in my industry win or make the final or get out the second round and they get excited about it and that turns me on to to try to help them to the best of my ability what do you like most about yourself oh dear no come on you got this what do i like about myself yes you do it's easier to say what you don't like about yourself what do i like about myself i like that i have repaid every ounce of my soul every sinew of my body back to my mother I like that about myself I like to think that one day when she's it's her time to pass that I will have given everything I could to the person who's given me everything I have yeah see making me cry so this is again so everything there's nothing nothing too great or too much I could do for her in any shape or form swear word favourite one as a bonus fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

1:11:18Shelley, this has been an honour. Thank you so much.

1:11:25What do you think? Oh, I loved it. Did you really? Yeah, I really loved it. Give it to me why, go. It had everything. Like a fantastic story. She was open. She shared. She really thought about some of her answers because you were asking questions that she doesn't often get asked. I like the bit about Strictly like and there was stuff from the past there's stuff from the present I don't know I just thought it was brilliant I love that and also what was so amazing about Shirley which maybe a lot of the listeners don't know is that there's suddenly I could see a glint in her eye where she trusted me and she was like okay I can open up here and talk about stuff which is amazing and I love her swear word at the end yeah yeah she was brilliant and she was just yeah I was really blown away by how much she opened up and like shared because there's a lot of things that are like quite difficult to talk about and she just went for it.

1:12:14Her life should be a movie. Well, it probably is, kind of. She's making the TV series, so maybe it will be. We have something really exciting because we have a special announcement, which is you are going to be interviewing... You. Over the Christmas period... We'll explain that, though. Explain why. Okay. Over the Christmas period, listening is weird because podcasts are things that people get into, like, the rhythm of their week. However, at Christmas, all your rhythm goes out the window. Yeah. So listening figures, traditionally, you don't put your best stuff out. So we've decided to put our worst guest.

1:12:49Jamie, like, no, you guys listen to the show because we have great guests. But I imagine a lot of people are fans of Jamie. And you, Jamie, have not lived a normal life. You've lived quite an interesting life. And you, like, hint at it in the episodes. And you also share a lot. However, I thought it would be really fun Well, we thought it would be really fun To have an episode, a special episode It's a little bit different Because life is a bit different When it comes to the festive period And there's no one better to do it than you I guess so, I'm quite nervous Why? Well, not nervous You're going to be great, are you kidding me?

1:13:31It's just talking It's literally just talking and asking questions It's just talking But you know the thing when you say When you know someone interviewing them is hard. You know, when you're a bit like, I don't really know. But you just have to ask questions. You don't have to even think about it flowing. You just have to, the questions that you want to ask, you can ask anything and I'm going to be completely honest. Yeah. But it's hard to think of questions I haven't already asked you. Yeah, but you can go deep on it. You could, you could. And you, you're also my boss. Oh my God, get over that.

1:13:58We're teammates. We're teammates. And also, if you think it's going to be an awkward question, it's probably a good place to start. That's what I think. True, true. I just, I won't have anyone producing me. No, no, we're doing ourselves. So you know when you're a bit like, oh, good. So when are we releasing that episode? Either Christmas Day or New Year's Day. Christmas Day or New Year's Day. We haven't quite decided yet, but it's going to be around that time. So hopefully get ready for that. Now, if you do want to get in touch and ask us any question whatsoever, you can. All you've got to do is send us an Instagram, sign them to our DMs at greatcompanypodcast, or you can send us an email.

1:14:29Let us know what you think of the episode. Any questions at all, we can answer them on the show as well. Can I say I read every email and I love them? Yeah, she really does. And maybe you get a response from Jemima and also we're going to start trickling them into the actual show. So please do send us an email, greatcompany at jampopproductions.co.uk. Everything is in the show description. Also, don't be offended if you don't get a reply from me because I'm awful at replying to my actual emails anyway. That is also true. And if you haven't subscribed to the show, please give it a little subscribe because it means everything for us.

1:14:58Okay, we're going to see you next episode, which I cannot wait for. Yes. It's a big one. Although we have a little extra one in between on Monday. We have an extra show on Monday. You'll find out why on Monday because it's Christmas period. It's very exciting. So get ready for that. You have a double whammy next week. Anyway, until then, we'll see you soon. Keep dancing. Keep listening. Keep listening. Keep listening. And we'll see you next week for another episode of Great Company.

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1:16:55I'm Jordan North. And together we take on the hilarious challenges of modern life. William's the arbiter of etiquette. And Jordan's the chaotic yin to my perfectly polished yang. So if you want laugh out loud stories and brutally honest moments, then you'll love Help I Sexted My Boss. Watch and listen every Tuesday and Friday. On YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Just search Sexted. Be warned, it's a bit rude.