STEVEN FRAYNE (the magician fka DYNAMO): I’M LIVING PROOF YOU CAN ESCAPE DARK TIMES

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1:17Before we begin, a quick content warning that this episode contains discussion of suicide, which some listeners might find upsetting. Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Lane and this is Great Company. Hello. Hi. My microphone is sort of in a weird direction so I can't... You're side-eyeing me. I'm side-eyeing you because it's, I don't know, it's in a strange position today for some reason. I see through it, you just don't want to look at me today. Yeah, that's very true. I've upset you. I actually don't want to, so I'm going to look at you from the side of my eye. Okay, that's fine. Do you want to tell everyone who you are, what we're doing here, what they've downloaded?

1:56You better have downloaded everyone. Every time I miss this. Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Lang. I am the host of this podcast that you're listening to, Great Company, and you are... The producer. Jemima, who is our producer. And we do this little chat at the top, and you tell me what I've done wrong, what I've done right, maybe a little insight into what goes on behind the camera or the microphone. Yeah. Hey, last episode we had Zara Larson. We did have Zara Larson. How was my interviewing skills? How was the edit actually? How did you edit it? Yeah, no, great edit. Very easy edit. Do you keep everything in?

2:30Not everything. So how long do we record someone like Zara Larson for? So someone like Zara, who is a busy international pop star, you often, for certain people, you'll get a set amount of time and I'll go, oh, can we have a bit more? And they go, that's your time. That's all you've got. so sometimes I have to and I think you can't work out whether it is helpful or not when I go you've got 10 minutes left you're the type of person who I think being told you've got 10 minutes left there's a bit of you that goes well I'm going to keep going and by the way for people who don't know I have a little iPad when I'm talking to our guests and Jemima you write on the iPad occasionally a question that maybe I haven't thought of or don't know and so I look down at the iPad and it says different things.

3:18And sometimes you even write, well said, well done. I do. Keep going. Keep going. Good boy. Good boy. And yeah, so, but how, how do you, if I say you've got 10 minutes and I'll write that in red and make it bold, that's really big. Do you go, okay, cool. I've got 10 minutes. Or do you go, I'm not going to stop after. I don't like it when it says 10 minutes. Yeah. That annoys me. I, yeah. Cause you don't like rules. So, and I feel like I did that. I've done that before because I'm like, we actually have 10 minutes. So I'm like, I'll just pop it there so you know, but then I'll try and I won't leave it for too long.

3:56One time we had a very big guest in who is up and coming, which we're very excited about. Yeah, stay tuned. Stay tuned. We're not going to say anything more. But at one point you wrote, they have to book cars. Can we stop for a second? In the iPad, I saw a flash up, so I had to stop mid-conversation when we were talking about, I think it was grief. Yeah, it was a really bad moment that that came up. And I once actually, I once wrote the, I can't remember which guest it was, but there was a coffee cup on the table. And I said, can you ask them to move the coffee cup? And he didn't. And I kept it.

4:28I kept making it bold. I highlighted it. I put it in red. I didn't remember that. I tried to catch your eye. And I was like, I said to the guy on the camera, I was like, look, I'm sorry. That coffee cup's going to be in all the footage. And it's fine. But I think it was just like not as pretty with the coffee cup. And you know, now everyone's going to try and guess what episode it is. I can't remember which one it was. But yeah, it doesn't look, you know, the guys on the camera want it to look as gorgeous as possible. And the coffee cup wasn't. But you ignored. We've had some amazing feedback.

4:56We have. About this podcast. So I want to say a huge thank you to you guys who are listening right now. Today's guest is Stephen Frayne, a.k.a. Dynamo. Dynamo. Now you may know Dynamo. He is a magician. He emerged in the magic scene in 2004. He had lots of television shows. Dynamo, Magician, Impossible. He is massive. He's really big on YouTube as well. Back in the day. Back in the day. He sold tickets all around the world. He's done books. He is originally from Bradford. He has an insane story. Yeah. He's had like some serious health issues. He was really bullied. it seems like he really found himself and escape in magic yeah his name now is Stephen Frayne because Dynamo is dead yeah back in December so some of you might have seen it it was on Sky and fun fact it was originally meant to be 90 minutes and Sky saw some of the footage and they were like god we love it so they made it 120 so it's 120 minutes it's called Dynamo is dead is a television episode where Dynamo the Magician, the name, his alter ego is gone.

6:12It's dead. And now he is back to his original name, his birth name, which is Stephen Frayn. Yeah. This episode is going to be incredible. Anything I shouldn't ask him? So he's had some really, really dark moments in his life, which I think he will be open to talking about. But I just say, I think you're very good at reading a room and reading a person. Yeah. tread like you know like tread carefully yeah picking up if someone wants to talk about it and also you know we spoke about last time leaving space because I think it's the type of thing he'll probably be quite careful in the words he's choosing to use so like not finishing sentences and just kind of leaving space because some of those topics are heavy so can I ask him to do magic?

6:55a hundred percent have you ever done magic? yes you strike me as a type of child who would have been well into magic I nearly went into the magic circle oh my god okay Anyway, it's not about me. Are we ready for this episode? Yeah, I am. Are you? Okay, here we go. Everyone, get ready for the episode with Stephen Frayne, a.k.a. Dynamo, on Great Company.

7:17I've got a trick that I want to kick off with you. This is exciting. I'm normally not the one being performed for, so this is good. I think I can read your mind. Okay. Can you read people's minds? I've done stuff like that in the past. Okay, fine. So you, okay. You ready for this? You know what? I'm going to be a ponderful table here. Okay. You might take off, buddy. Here we go. You ready for this? Here we go. Okay. What's two plus one? Three. What's one plus three? Four. What's four minus one? Three. Think of a vegetable. Was it a carrot? It was. Look at that, eh? Amazing. How many people listening at home also thought of carrot?

8:02Put it in the comments, you know, send us carrot emojis. Do you know what I mean? This is what it's all about. Is your mind blown? Why, talk to me about, magic is a thing, when I was a kid I was obsessed with it. And I think, what is the obsession around magic, around mind reading, around all that kind of thing, the sort of unknown, why do you think we're obsessed with it? I think it's exactly that. It's the unknown. where we're all equally excited by the unknown but also frightened by it that's the thing for me about magic that I love the most because it's one of those things probably one of the only things that I know that brings out fear and hope in exactly the same moment explain that what do you mean when you witness something magical instantly you're hopeful and excited about wow, there's things in this world I didn't understand.

8:57And maybe there's more to learn. But you're also scared because you're like, wait a minute, I don't know how everything works. And that frightens people. And people like to be surprised, don't they? We like to have something that we can't quite figure out. And that does also, you're right, put us in a place of fear because we like to know. You want the answers, but we also don't want the answers. So then why did you become obsessed with magic? And we can get into the other stuff, but what was it specifically about magic that you liked? For me, when I saw my grandpa do magic for the first time, he was the main male role model that was around my life.

9:41And seeing him do this stuff, it made him overworldly. It made him amazing. Like, I lived on a council estate. It was rough. There was, you know, the most of the male role models around were doing dodgy shit. Whereas he was, you know, he kept me on the straight and narrow and he gave me my sensibilities and he shared the most incredible things. And later on, he started to show me how to do them myself. And that feeling I got when I experienced magic for the first time is something that I'll never forget. and it's like I was surrounded in fear but seeing that magic gave me a sense of hope that I think I needed and I've taken that spark and I've literally used it to carry me right to this very moment sitting here with you I mean without seeing magic for the first time I never would have gone on to achieve the things I've done or even believe that it was possible to do them and he showed me that the impossible was possible I tried BMXing you know I tried skateboarding I tried playing football I tried all these things and I wasn't very good at them and when I first dabbled in magic there was a natural flair that I didn't realize I had until my grandpa started to nurture that in me and when I shared it with other people it was the first time people looked at me with any sense of respect.

11:12I think I was so misunderstood as a kid and I had my own ambitions. I lived in my own head and I didn't have, like my dad went to jail when I was really young and my mom had me really young and she wasn't always able to be around because she was going to school, to like to college herself. And my grandparents were helping to raise me a lot of the time. So I would basically just, kind of come up with my own ideas. I didn't have parents telling me you can't do this and you can't do that. So I remember when I was 15, I think that was the first time I came to London and I got on the one pound mega bus.

11:53It was a big blue bus. You pay a pound and it takes you about eight hours to get to London. I've done it from Leeds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I got on, I, I, you know, I got that pound and I, I had about a tenner, right. and I came to London and I'd been doing magic like in the estate you know I'd been kind of performing a little bit of magic and do it you know kind of earning my my street credentials as a performer but I'd heard about this place called Covent Garden you know the home of street magic heard about St James Street Corner which is the area where all the magicians perform and I wanted to come and see it for myself I jumped on this mega bus and I came to London and you know what I got to London and it took me so long to find Common Garden.

12:40I didn't know where I was going because I got off, you know what? I got off the Megabus. The Megabus dropped us off at Golders Green, right? I thought like in Bradford. All Victoria. Yeah, yeah. But like in, yeah, because I didn't realise you could stay on to go to Victoria, right? It dropped us off at Golders Green. And like in Bradford, right, there's like, you know, you get a 10 minute bus to the town centre. and then you get on the train. So I just thought London's going to be like that. You know, I'll get off my bus and Covent Garden is just going to be there. There'll be a man with a magic hat, Covent Garden this way.

13:15And you would have just followed. It was mad. So it took me ages to find Covent Garden and to the point where I kept thinking I was in Covent Garden and I started performing on the streets. I mean, I realized I'm in a dodgy area and I shouldn't really be doing magic on the streets, let alone speaking to people. People thought I was like a beggar. You know what I mean? So eventually I found Covent Garden and I found some magicians. And one of those magicians was a guy called Sean. And I kept in touch with him for years. And then eventually when I first moved to London, I ended up moving in with Sean.

13:46I stayed in his spare room. And basically I would, I'd kind of basically go and busk in Covent Garden. And then the money I earned, I would just pay him for letting me stay there. And I'd, you know, I'd kind of survive that way. And the... It's incredibly entrepreneurial. I think, yeah, looking now at it, I think so. But back when I was doing it, I didn't feel like I was doing anything particularly special. I didn't feel like I was striving to do anything. I just had heard about this place in magic books and I wanted to kind of go and perform where the top magicians performed. And even when I performed on there at the beginning, I was probably terrible.

14:29I didn't know how to build a crowd. I didn't really understand what went into performing in that way and you know but I learned so much from it and I think it's a lot of those things that I learned there I still use today when I'm performing there are so many things I want to unpack because firstly I with that idea of performing in front of a crowd not knowing what you're doing I believe truly that naivety is our biggest weapon yes yeah yeah without a doubt and if you knew what you knew today there's no way you would have got on that bus and gone to Covent Garden to perform because you would have been, and if you, you know, if you didn't have the skills or you didn't understand what you're doing or didn't know how to bask or draw a crowd, you, but the fact you were naive at the time leads you towards you.

15:10Well, I can go and do that because it feels like an adventure. Yeah, it, it, it was an adventure, but at the same time, um, that naivety, as you say, played a huge role in me having the confidence to do it because I have people say to me now, like I have people now say who wouldn't feel comfortable traveling to London on their own from places like Bradford, do you know what I mean? Or from places like, you know, from out of London, because London is deemed as quite a scary place. Intimidating place. Intimidating place, yeah. And there's, doesn't me wrong, there's scary places everywhere in the world.

15:45But I think the naivety played a huge role in me feeling confident enough to just get out there and do it. And you're 15 when you first do that. Yeah, yeah. That is so young. I don't know what the hell I was doing. At 15 years old, I think, I was trying to kiss a girl called Daisy. That's what I remember doing 15 years old. You say that you were living in fear the entire time, but then it's juxtaposing because you're completely, most people just say would be fearful to go to London to bus, to do those kind of things. But you're not scared to do that. But also you're living in fear where you are at the same time.

16:22So you should be scared of that, but you're not. No, because the kids who lived on the estate when I lived there weren't very nice to me. Even the kids at school weren't very nice to me. I'd get beat up every single day. I'd get my dinner money taken from me, stuck in wheelie beans, phoning to the dam. you know like it wasn't it like every time I stepped out of my house to go to school to go anywhere whilst I'm walking through that estate there's a chance I might get jumped the way I looked at it is the minute I'm away from that environment I'm safe even if naively I ended up in a place that was far more dangerous than that estate but the people in London they didn't know anything about me they didn't know where I was from they didn't know they didn't look at me as the smallest kid on the estate they just looked at me as just a kid in London and they you know I had nothing to hide and everything to gain so you know the dread was going back from London back to Bradford knowing what I was going back to you know they they would just say oh you know you've got to be careful going down there, you know, don't be, you know, get it out of your head, you know, you know, you need to focus on your school, focus on your college, whatever it is, and, you know, and get a proper job, do you know what I mean?

17:51Like get yourself an education. And I think it's super important to get an education, but I think what they misunderstood is that I was getting a different type of education. And which one is more important, right? Who knows? It's impossible to say, because if I didn't get that education, then I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today and i think the stuff that i learned at art college now i'm starting to actually use in my work like what well like you know designing the logos you know thinking about the brand but then what you're talking about there potentially is that there's some sort of everything happens for a reason and that's also troubling for someone possibly like yourself like everyone because we all have our ups, our downs, our left, right.

18:33We all have our demons. And you were horrendously bullied and, you know, attacked when you were younger. But then are you able to forgive all of that and let all of that go? Because you're going, well, I wouldn't be what I'm doing right now. I wouldn't be here today without all of that. I think I can forgive it to a certain extent. Yeah, because I think a lot of that was kids doing what kids do, you know, and a lot of things that kids do has no meaning or bearing on you as an adult. But the, I guess the battle scars below the surface will always be there. But I think I've been able to take them and use them for a positive thing in myself.

19:24So for example, I can get nervous going to do a performance. Still now? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, but the difference now is that when I was first starting to do magic back home, when I, you know, when it was, when I wasn't who I am now, if the performance didn't go well, I might get punched in the face. Whereas now, if I think, if I'm a bit nervous about doing a performance, I just got to think to myself, well, you know what? Ultimately, even if this goes wrong, I'm not going to get punched in the face. That is wild. I think the environment that I was grown up in gave me the skills I needed to be able to deal with everything else outside of that.

20:23But that's still so hard. I think honestly, to have that sort of threat on your doorstep every day is a lot. To be pushed. But I'm not a special case. Like there's millions of people out there who will be listening to this or watching this, who live in that environment all the time, who have it way tougher than I have. Do you know what I mean? Like I never, I never want it to be a woe is me story because I think for me, it's a positive story. It's like, I've had those experiences and I've taken something from them and turned it into something beautiful or taken dark times and created light from within it.

20:59And I think, you know, that's, that's what I want to share about it because I know that there's, other people out there who are going through this, who feel isolated, they feel alone, they feel there's no escape from it. And I'm sitting here as living proof that you can. Yeah. And for me, that's real magic. Yeah. You know, that's, if I can inspire one person to either speak up about what's happening to them or to not let that situation define them, then that will, that's a different type of magic that will far outlive any of the tricks I could do. Yeah, that's, it's amazing because you are, and I don't, and you're not, you know, from stuff I've researched, stuff I've listened to and what you said, you're, you're not someone who you, you're, you don't play a victim.

21:56You're, you're almost wanting to encourage people to, you can sort of do anything you want to do if you really put your mind to it, which I really like. And what I find interesting is that, you know, with magic, magic feels like a certain group of individuals. And it's almost like you found your place, like your friend, Sean, as you said, his name was Sean. You know, you came to London, you met this guy and you're still friends with them and lived with him. You must have, when you were starting to do magic and do these things, you were suddenly finding your people in a sense and your group, your tribe.

22:27That was the one thing when I came to London and I met these magicians at James Street corner in common garden suddenly i was speaking to people that spoke the same language as me you know they were they were the oddballs themselves you know they were the outcast who didn't feel like they had a place but then they found that place and suddenly i i felt accepted and you know it even to this was that freeing was that a massively freeing yeah massively of thing. And I think, I think this is coming from a sense of maturity because I've, I have, I've had to grow and go through things to have this understanding.

23:04But for me, I can't play the victim because I know that deep down anybody who's like wronged me or done something to me where they've lashed out or whatever, they're clearly a victim of something themselves and they just don't know how to deal with it. So they're taking it out on someone like me in that moment it doesn't necessarily always make them a bad person yeah it just means they need to find their own escape and unfortunately in those moments I became a punching bag for example but but I know that there's always something deeper going on and I try not to be judgmental you know if anything magic for me is a way to connect with people so I think I think you know we all go through life and in some respects we all end up becoming a victim at some point but we all have the capacity to not let that moment hold us back or define us.

24:00And you can always take something positive from every negative situation. Yeah, but that's also in hindsight. Now that's a great, I completely agree with you. I think that's such a great mindset to have. And I think sometimes what happens is, is that when I always, I always look at life, right? It's so cheesy, but life is like that heart monitor, but it goes up and down. And if you're, if you're flatlining, you're dead, right? It has to have those up and downs in order to survive. And I spoke to a comedian once who said to me, his favourite quote ever that he heard was, this too shall pass. And I totally believe that whatever situation you're in, it will get better.

24:35But sometimes when you're stuck in that moment, it's very hard to see the light. It's very hard to see the blue clouds above the grey. When you became Dynamo, what was the first card trick that you became good at? It was this I can show you Can you share it to me? It's Looking at it now It's not You know It's not that super Because it was You know I'm beyond excited Obviously Okay So this is your This is your 18 years old You're back in New York This is the The first trick That you were doing To someone in I'm in the audience I've just got up I'm going to do it verbatim Exactly how I said Everything that I said And exactly the way I did it I want nothing less I want nothing less Yes.

25:19Like things I'm about to say I thought were cool back then. Right? So just, you know, don't judge me. Okay, here we go. So we're going to do the trick. Yeah. Okay. So just grab one out. Okay. Yeah. Have a look at it. You can show it to the camera or whoever. Yeah. And then would you say that's about halfway down, yeah? Yeah, it's about halfway down. So pop it right there. And the idea was I'd put it halfway down. I'd give it a bit of a shuffle. And you'd see that it's not on the bottom. Right? it's not on the top. Yeah. I'd get someone to snap their fingers and the card would jump to the top. What?

25:57But I wouldn't just do it once. Like, I'd take it, right? I'd put it in the middle, right? You'd see that it's not there, yeah? And you know what you need to do? What? Snap your fingers. Yeah, every time. We'll just use half the deck. Just push it all the way in. You can see it's not on top. Yeah. Just snap your fingers. Turn it over. No, get out of here. I watched it. I watched it closely. It's not there. Oh, wait, no, sorry. This is only the top of the bottom half because that's the top right there. What the hell? No, but I put it back in.

26:36But that was like, that was literally. That is unbelievable. but the reason you must love it as well so much is because you it's the the audience's reaction that's part of it surely right it's not only the fact that you're you're able to do and you're performing you're performing this amazing thing but it's the reactions you get out of that's what's so pleasing isn't it yeah like for me seeing the kind of glint in your eyes when i'm doing it that's the feeling i felt when my grandpa showed me magic and now i get to share that with view but the one thing my grandpa did with magic is he never made me feel less than him when he performed for me right and i've watched a lot of magicians and there's this natural thing where it's like they're up on this pedestal and everyone else is on it they're like they're the all-powerful magician you know you look at like a wizard on tv and you're like you know they're above everybody else because they have these incredible skills right and for me the way i look at it i'm not performing magic for you we're sharing in the experience together yeah but that's the best way because you make it so relatable because you're having fun whether you're so right there's no sort of status within it that that sort of tribal aspect has really shared experience yeah i didn't have the the close family life growing up and i didn't really have a massive group of friends so i felt so lonely and isolated and in some ways it's helped me because being on my own being kind of isolated all the time meant that I had time to dedicate myself to learn all these skills because if I had friends if I if I if I was confident enough to go out there and talk to girls and stuff like that when I was a kid and when I was younger growing up then that might have distracted my time and I wouldn't have put my dedication into mastering a skill and and I think of as I got older, I realized I had these skills that I'd worked on, but I had no social skills and I hadn't been around people.

28:43I didn't even know the first thing about being around people, but magic allowed me to connect with people in a different way, in a way that I felt comfortable with. Also way closer. Yeah. It's a more intimate connection because you're sharing something. You're sharing almost a secret. So you feel more connected. I don't know why that. And when I watch your programs and your shows, and when you're doing it with different people, it doesn't matter if it's Tyson Fury or, I don't know, it's Pete Davidson or whatever. Because you're showing magic, and just now, you feel a more intimate connection for some reason.

29:18I don't know why. But they feel, for me anyway, personally, that's what it feels. I don't know if you felt the intimate connection, but I did. I feel, I think maybe for you, from your perspective, you're getting to see the heart of me because it's the heart that I put into the magic. And as much as I talk about magic being the mask or the thing that I maybe used to hide behind, there is an incredible amount of me that I put into it. and I think more so now I'm comfortable putting the real me and all of me into it because it's the thing that I live for it's my drive it's my passion um so maybe you're maybe the reason for maybe closely connected to it in that moment is because it maybe is the the opportunity where you're getting to experience the real me

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31:40Do you think though that creating Dynamo, because you could then hide behind that persona, do you think that was easier for you? Yeah. It was? Yeah. Because that Dynamo was this person who could go on stage and be anyone and create and do magic and meet these different people. But then Stephen could then be the person on the side and go home. So was it two different personalities? To a certain extent. Yeah. I guess Dynamo was the more confident auto-ego of myself. But then the problem was it became too hard to live up to the expectations that everyone else had of Dynamo. I'm no longer performing for me anymore.

32:31I'm performing for all the people who have bought tickets, watched the TV shows, who put me in this position that I'm in. But the thing is, that's difficult because when I'm creating ideas and working on new material, sometimes that can inform the decisions I make. And I've ended up in the past choosing magic and doing certain things a certain way to please others at the detriment to me not feeling happy with it and me taking me out of my comfort zone. And I think it's important to go outside your comfort zone. But slowly over years, I felt like the life of it was sucked out for me. Because you weren't staying true to yourself.

33:21No. And I think that Dynamo is dead, my show that's just come out. I think that's probably the truest example of the way I view magic. now if you if you watch that show i wasn't i'd buried myself alive at the end so that's that's a big stunt i guess but the magic in the show it was small close-up intimate miracles you know for me the real magic in the show wasn't even the magic i was doing it was the conversations with the people which are amazing and you're doing with these people who have been through similar situations to you in lots of ways in terms of the mental sort of hardships and it's it's amazing again the connection you have with them is incredible that's that's what i was trying to show like that's the reason why each of those people were picked um i was going through some difficult times on my own to the point where i didn't really want to be on this earth anymore and because i just yeah it was like a jekyll and hyde in my own head um and i lost myself a bit and it was reading the stories of these other people's adversities i'll be honest it started with Tyson Fury, you know, when he shared his struggles publicly, like he's somebody that as a, as a Northerner, as somebody who's, you know, who's from like the lower classes to, to see him, I can relate to him far more than I can relate to like a therapist or to like, you know, a Harvard professor.

34:50So when I saw him open up and he's such a big alpha male, I mean, as a boxer, he's someone who you should never give away your weaknesses to your opponents. But what's he do? He does the opposite. He just throws them all out there and it makes him more untouchable. Do you know what I mean? And that was like, that was a, it opened up my mind to think, well, you know, I took inspiration from him and I, and I wanted to, and I started to create magic revolving around the inspiration that he gave me. And I was like, I want to show him that magic. And I want to have a conversation with him about what it was that he inspired in me in the hope it might inspire other people in the same way we are all just human and our circumstances do not have to be the thing that defines us every single one of us has our own magic that we can share like for me magic is a feeling it's a feeling that you get when you witness something you can't explain or something that inspires you in a way that you never would have imagined before you saw it and i do that through my performances but every single one of us has the ability to do it like you'll do that from people watching your podcast i know i know you do because i read the comments on the bottom and you can tell people are inspired by the conversations you're having you know but you're you're opening people's eyes to worlds that they wouldn't see otherwise you know still be people watch this who've never seen any of my stuff who see it for the first time and you've introduced them to my magic.

36:25You know, you watch your favorite footballer score a goal and it feels magical, right? You hold a newborn baby for the first time, that feels magical. You know what I mean? I think we all have the capacity to share magic in one way, shape or form. And that for me is the real magic that I'm trying to spread. Is that the difference between Stephen and Dynamo? Where Dynamo was a performer, where Stephen's actually connecting with the individual. Does that make sense? Are you going to do another show, surely? There must be one. You must be on planning. I've got a lot of magic I want to share. As much as I find it scary, the prospect of going on stage, I do want to kind of make a live show.

37:12Whether it will be in like a smaller theatre or an arena, I don't know yet. I like, you know, I like the intimacy of like a smaller venue, but, you know, but I want to create the best magic show ever. I think ultimately, yeah, you know, I want to create the best magic show I can ever create. And, you know, maybe that's the show, you know, maybe I create a show and we document everything. Do you know what I mean? With your show, you open up talking about the fact that you just didn't want to be here. and it took me a long time personally to be open about how I felt. I went through really bad anxiety and had something called depersonalization at one point, which is just a place where your body basically goes into autopilot because you've had so much anxiety within yourself.

38:01And I just didn't tell anyone forever because I was embarrassed. I was scared. I was upset. I didn't know if anyone cared. And I've heard you speak about it and I admire you honestly for being so open about it because it's kind of a scary place still. But there was a moment which you said and you spoke about on, I think it was the 6th of November. Only if you're comfortable doing it. Yeah, yeah, sure. I'll talk about it a little bit. So on the 6th of November 2020, I tried to take my own life. and I kind of just exploded. I was slamming myself into everything I could see in front of me in my house, put my head through doors, through mirrors, you know, like just kept pounding away because I was trying to shut off the noise in my head.

39:05you know I was hurting myself punching walls like you know I wanted to feel something it's weird when I was doing all of this there was obviously pain I was feeling but I didn't feel anything else and my wife basically found me on the floor I was actually in the dog bed In front of One of the mirrors That I'd stuck my head through And Came to you know Like Bleeding and just Kind of Out of it And Yeah I think Waking up like that Was The most ashamed I'd ever felt you should never feel shame because you just were in such a place where you just felt like you just didn't want to exist which is so awful it was the shame was different because when I was doing it I wasn't thinking about anybody else I was just seeing the reflection of myself back and I hated what I was seeing and I had all this noise I was pressure in my head and I didn't know how to switch it off so I just tried to smash it out of me and I ended up smashing my own lights out but then the first thing I saw when I opened my eyes and came to was my wife and my dogs looking down on me like my wife bawling her eyes out on the phone to the hospital and it was the shame of seeing of knowing that she found me like this.

40:59And in that moment, the magnitude of what I'd done came in because I was like, if I had have died, then what she would have found would have been far worse than what she actually did find. And what she did find is the worst thing I think she's probably ever found. and that was my fault.

41:30So, you know, it doesn't matter. Like, she's mad cool, you know what I mean? She didn't judge me for it and she got me the help I needed and she still does. She's been my rock. But I can never forget that she saw that. I just, dude, thank you. Like, honestly, I just can't, you know, I've heard you speak with this and I just, I know how passionate now you are. You said it today where you want to find that little bit of magic in everyone else and inspiring people. And I know people will be listening to this and just feeling that they're probably in a dark place or feeling horrible or feeling a certain way.

42:13And you will be inspiring them that they can get out of it and they can get past that and they can move forward and get through it and it's a really scary scary place to be in i think i just for me is i don't want that to be the thing that defines me do you know i mean i don't think it is i think it's more i think it's more a um i think it's just incredibly powerful to to to you and to your story and for people to understand that we're all again goes back to think that we're all human at times and we all feel certain things. Yeah, yeah. I would say it's bravery rather than anything to then speak about it.

42:52And I'm so glad that you're here now to be able to talk about it. I do feel very, very lucky. You know, I feel not just lucky to be alive, but lucky that my wife was there. You know, lucky that the people that she found to help me are in my life. Do you know what I mean? like they they've they've opened up my mind to to different things in my life that i wasn't focusing on and i was focusing on on some of the wrong things at the times and i think the experiences i've had since then i value so much more because i realize now what i could have lost some of the problems in my head that led to that place i look back now and i'm thinking why was i even bothered about that yeah one of the things that my therapist tells me to do a lot is i i'm i've become obsessed with bullet journaling now um what is what do you mean by bullet journal it's it's a it's a type of journal um but bullet journal like there's there's a bit of an art to it if you go on youtube you find loads of people doing it but but like my my therapist said to me told me to you know whenever you're feeling ill thoughts write them down rather than act on them yeah and then reflect on them a week later and see if it's still a problem and if it is then you have to obviously work on a way to deal with it this is great and so i've got these bullet journals and i've got literally stacks of them and they they started off as a place that i just write down my negative thoughts and opinions and feelings.

44:34And then I would do, I'd reflect on them. And a lot of the times I've realized that, but in the moment, it felt like the worst feeling in the world. This thing's happening to me. Why? But then when I look back at it, I'm like, ah, it's not even, it's not even a problem anymore. I can't even bother. I don't even know why I was worried about that. Um, and what ended up happening is I got in this habit of writing in these journals to the point where now now my journals are full of magic ideas they're full of like you know i literally i've i wrote the whole dynamo is dead tv show in these journals like the the idea behind it like you know the magic the routines um you know i'm and it literally like i've always had processes i've always i've always you know written ideas in books or that, but I've never kind of, I've never done it this way ever in my life.

45:32And this, this new process, I think it's made my, my magic and what I do a lot more considered. I mean, I think, I think I'm approaching every moment in life now, um, with real gratitude for still being here, but also being able to do what I do and being able to share it. I mean, my notebooks, I kind of write them in my own language. They won't make sense to anybody else. Maybe someday, in 100 years from now, maybe someone will find them and try and decipher. It's going to be like the Peeps' diary. Yeah, yeah. What created Dynamo? I dropped out of college a few years before, right? When I was 18.

46:24And my grandma, she lives in America. She still lives there now. She lived there for as long as I can remember. She's married to an amazing man called Martin. And they have 19 award-winning golden retriever dogs, right? They go to do all the dog shows. They're like the best dogs ever. Do you know what I mean? they win all they've got like they win all the pedigree chum uh competitions and all that sort of stuff so like yeah you can actually you can go cobblestone goldens if you want to check them out on the internet but um but yeah so so for my 18th birthday my nana who lives in america nana lynn she bought me a plane ticket and sorted out like a visa so that i could stay there for like you know for i stayed there for like seven months sort of thing because she's got a green card and stuff like that now because she's been there for so long and i went out there with the the ambition that i'm going to help her with the dog shows in the daytime and she was traveling all across america and in the evenings i would go and find the local magic clubs or the local the covent gardens of america you know like las vegas is the home of magic do you know i mean i I went out there and like, I met, you know, David Copperfield, you know, met Penn and Teller.

47:43I met my heroes, but I met people like Dean Dill in New Orleans who were like, these are like masters whose books I've read, you know. And I just, the idea was, I knew deep down I wanted to make magic my career, but I didn't know how to do it. What I find is so fascinating, right, is the sense of there's just no fear. Most people are restricted because they don't want to challenge themselves. They either want to live a simplistic life. They want to stay in Bradford because it's too scary to leave there. So they're just like, well, I'll just stay here. That's fine. Or other people don't want to go to America because it's a different country.

48:23Why would we do it? But you had none of that. You were just like, I'm just going to go and do it. I'm going to take the bus for a 15th. It was a free flight. What do you mean? When Anna was paying for a free flight, there's another chance to escape. How old? You're 18. I was lucky enough to find so many incredible magicians that were willing to give time to someone like me and tell me about how they've managed to turn it into something. But just hang on, you arrive there. You arrive there. How do you find the first magician? Where do you go? So there was a little bit of method behind the madness.

48:56Okay. Right. So there's a thing called the Society of American Magicians. And I was part of the Bradford Magic Circle back then. I'd just won my first big competition. I was Bradford Magic Circle close up champion. And that was great. I mean, it was only about five entrants, you know. And I think, I think, and I was the youngest. I think I got the cute factor, you know, but it was good. Was there a parade through Bradford? and then so and i i knew that there was where my nana lived i knew there was a magic club because she lived in memphis right so there was a there was a society of american magicians of the memphis like ring so to speak uh and i managed to contact them to say that i was coming out there and David Copperfield was doing filming his new special in Memphis arena and I went there and I saw the performance you know I mean I was I was in the crowd for for his it was the special of a tornado of fire and it was just amazing seeing the master at work and then you know I remember I bought his VHS tapes after you know that were his highlights reels and they were like you know they were like tv magic specials um which i guess in some ways inspired what i ended up going on to make in the future and then we'd go on you know we'd go there's a massive winnebago on we you know like a camper long massive camper van me my nana 19 dogs um i pretty much yeah yeah i put him i shared a bed with tomba and chester most of the time they were they were they were my favorites I'd help her do grooming in the daytime and then in the evenings you know and she'd give me some like pocket money for helping her do you know I'd kind of earn my my spending money and then she'd drop me off at these like magic clubs and each time I go to a magic club in one city I'd tell them where I'm going next and then they'd connect me with someone in the in the area next time and then I went to a conference in New York and it was it was a big centennial for Houdini and they were basically, you know, all the top magicians were there, like David Blaine, Copperfield, Siegfried and Roy.

51:10And I got asked to perform. So I'm performing in front of all of my heroes. And halfway through the performance, this guy stood up and he goes, this kid's an effing dynamo. And for the rest of that convention, everyone called me the dynamo kid. And when I came back to England, you know, that became like my stage name. Obviously, as I got older, I lost the kid part. but you know it's weird i remember i remember asking asking and like i didn't know what a dynamo meant i didn't know what it was uh and he goes oh it's it's a compliment but you know it's a good thing you know so take it i'm like cool and then then i looked it up and like and you know essentially it's a small generator that produces electrifying results far greater than the size of it and i guess that kind of does sum me up because i was i was a really small kid then but i was doing all these incredible things and I had this enthusiasm, this kinetic energy about my performances that I think, you know, that really summed up the person that I was becoming back then.

52:09It's, do you know what, my biggest thing, the reason why I love doing the podcast like this is when you talk to people, when you can see, I can see your eyes like light, I get so excited thinking about and talking about magic and talking about the people that you met and those experiences. There's a book that I read, one of the only books I've ever read, it was called, Outliers. Oh, it's brilliant, yeah. Far from Gladwell. Yeah, exactly. Which is all about the idea of luck and timing and right place at right time. Do you believe that's right in your life? That you, like going to Memphis and the performance, you know, being there or going to the dining your Nana had organised.

52:47It feels like there's just these moments in time that have led you towards the sort of situations you're in now. Totally. I think to go back to what you said earlier, I think naivety played a huge part in it. I don't think I, I didn't, it's like I had a roadmap and I was just following it. Right. But, you know, I, I do look back now and I think, you know what, um, those difficult performing environments, you know, the, the kind of people challenging me and making, making me question, is this the thing I should be doing well it made me ask the right questions about myself and I stuck with my guns and I've been doing magic ever since do you know I mean so so I think um all those everything in life be it positive and negative I do think happens for a reason and I think you can learn something from all of it see honestly this is I've enjoyed every single second of this it's been unbelievable we like to end with seven questions so please answer as truthfully as you can okay what is a saying or phrase that always makes you smile or cheers you up

54:06this saying will not mean it probably it's probably not even a real saying but my nana used to always say it to me and my grandpa used to always say it right whenever i'll try to give context to what they say. So whenever someone would say they're going to do this, and it sounds like a grandiose statement that's never going to happen, my nana or grandpa would always say, oh, well, I've heard ducks fart in deep water before. And I don't know if they made it up. Like whenever they say it, I know exactly what they mean, but I actually don't know what it means. I don't know what it means. Like I know the intention behind it.

54:48I know the intention as well. It's a bit like saying pigs might fly, right? But my nanny and grandpa are both dead now, so no one else is saying it to me. So I feel like it's my duty to keep it alive. Keep it alive. Please keep it alive. I like it. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? My wife for staying with me after everything. That made me emotional. I don't know why. That was really sweet. I like that a lot. What scares you most about yourself? My ego. when was the last time you cried last night I was watching the ITV drama show about the postmasters you know Mr Bates versus the post office I think it's called the fourth episode in the kind of final wrap up I literally welled up like yeah I mean it's such a travesty what's happened to them I really hope that they get the compensation that they need and that they you know because lives were ruined and what's something that you'd be embarrassed for people to know you like or want not enough i get embarrassed about stuff like i said the the most embarrassed or the biggest shame i think i felt was like i say that night on the 6th november but um i don't know like maybe some of the songs that i listen to in my car when i'm driving around you know i mean like little mix are definitely in the playlist which is not something people would expect me to listen to but they've got they've got some bangers you know what I mean listen the mysterious girl comes on I am away good music it's good music you know what I mean I agree with you what turns you off early mornings what turns you on late nights

56:37what do you most like about yourself

56:44right now I guess my name Stephen. Great answer. Lastly, what's your favourite swear word? I like, well, I don't, it's not like I go around saying this, but like, it's almost like when I'm, when I'm telling stories about, you know, when I'm telling stories to my friends and I kind of overemphasise the word fucking hell. You know what I mean? I don't speak like, is that like the Essex way of saying, you know, like, you know, like, it's not like I say it, but I kind of, I like the way it sounds when other people say it in that tone. I know, that's a great one. Sometimes when I'm doing magic to people and they go, I'm fucking kidding, it's incredible.

57:28Like, you know, so I incite a lot of swear words from other people but I don't swear too much to myself. I love that. I want to say thank you for sharing, honestly, your magic with us. It's honestly been amazing and I just know people listening to this, it's going to touch people in so many different ways. And sometimes I kind of, it feels a bit, sometimes I listen to podcasts and they feel a bit heavy. But what you do so amazingly is that you take us, you've taken us on this journey of your life through the ups and the downs and just shown where you are now. And I think it's going to really encourage people to go and really just go after what they want.

58:05Thank you. I think you're giving me more credit for it because you navigated the journey. I did not at all. Honestly, I don't know far more, but my producer was like, get to the end we've got a time before you go and I just want everyone to go and watch your show I want to go to Sky go and get it we're going to leave all the links in the description I started a new Instagram I started from zero again I've just followed it Dynamo is dead so yeah check me out on there I don't have that many followers so it's quite good I can interact and literally respond to everybody so it's cool and I'm getting to there's loads of magic that I filmed over the last few years that I didn't put anywhere so I'm kind of slowly putting things on there.

58:45Go and follow it. And honestly, it will leave everything in the description below. So all you do is click on it and then you can go and follow and it's incredible. Before you go, you have to do one more trick because that's the rules. Can we do one more? Yeah, let's do it. You know what? Saw me in half. I'm going to do something that it's something that I've done before and it reminded me of this weird skill that I have a few years ago when I was in hospital. So my Crohn's ended up developing arthritis in all my joints. I've still got it and I'm on medication for it. But there was times when even just putting one card in my hand sent shooting pains up my arm.

59:23So I practiced every day just getting the cards back in my hands and was able to kind of take that notion and that idea and use that sensation and feeling to do what I'm about to show you. So you know how many cards there is in a pack, right? 52. 52. 52, yeah. So lift up a small pile. Get out of here. There's no ways. This isn't okay. Perfect. Right. And then just hold them with my hand and just drop them all together now. 16. Get out of here. No, there isn't. No, there isn't. No, there isn't. Put your hands together like this. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. fucking hell are you serious we'll try it again what that is wild go for a bigger pile if you want this time it's up to you as many as you want I don't want to influence you perfect just drop them now 32 I think 32 I'm going to say 32 put your hands like this this time you can't 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 cards.

1:00:55That is... Hold on one sec though, because the reason I got you to count them that time is because I was trying to challenge myself. I was trying to memorise each card as I dealt it down. Obviously, we've shuffled these cards and we've used them early on, but the top card there, just turn it over, it's a four of clubs. Are you serious? It's a 4 of clubs. There's a 2 of hearts. 7 of diamonds 7 of diamonds. 3 of clubs 4 of hearts 6 of diamonds Six of diamonds Ace of spades And then a 5 of hearts 9 of spades And a 2 of spades Naing of spades 2 of spades Queen of hearts 3 of diamonds Queen of clubs 8 of hearts Oh my god A 5 No no no A 6 of spades 6 of spades Then a 5 of spades Five of spades.

1:01:42And then a five of spades. Then a nine of hearts. King of clubs. Two of diamonds. Jack of hearts. Three of spades. And an eight of spades. Three of spades. And then an eight of spades. Six of hearts. Ten of clubs. Ten of clubs. Five of diamonds. Five of diamonds. And a king of diamonds. King of dynasty. King of diamonds. Two of hearts? No, two of clubs. Two of clubs. Then a three of hearts. Three of hearts. Eight of diamonds. Eight of diamonds. Five of clubs. Five of clubs. King of spades. and a Jack of Diamonds. Jack. That is outrageous! That is unbelievable. Thank you so much. Unbelievable. Thank you so much.

1:02:23Thank you, man. That has been amazing. Thank you so much. As I said, everything's in the biscuit trade. Thank you, everybody. Listen, we'll see you next week. Goodbye!

1:02:32Wow. Wow. That was great. What wasn't in that episode, eh? I mean, I love it when people become vulnerable and they open up and they, I mean, you could really, his story is just, I mean, I hate to use this word, Jemima, but magical. I don't know why I used that word. I don't know why I used that word. I thought you were going to say inspiring. It's just amazing that, you know, what you've come through, what you've got over, the near-death experiences, bullying, and then everything. I also, just him coming down to London as like a 14, 15-year-old. Like the thing when he got off the, I mean, if people don't know London very well he says he got off the bus at Golders Green which is like the first stop once you get into the London area which is a suburb it is nowhere near the place the centre where you're wanting to do magic the fact he just got off someone's like alright where's Covent Garden it's a massive city and he's just like just got off anywhere yeah just got off and thought I was going to do magic like I think it's like getting off in Brooklyn and saying can I go to Upper East Side yeah if you're a New Yorker yeah and even more relatable I know Wow what an episode and of course we did magic which everyone can see on social media as well Yeah Yeah if you've listened to this episode definitely check out our socials which are at great company podcast you can find us on TikTok and Instagram and also we're on YouTube now where you can watch the videos as well if you want to I want to say a big thank you to everyone who continues to listen to us if you can do us one big favour which is just press that subscribe button.

1:04:07Wherever you're listening to this, all the follow button, that would be amazing. Who do we have on next episode? Well, next episode is a little bit of a different episode because we have an expert. Dr. Federica Amati. We do. I cannot wait. Dr. Federica Amati is the head nutritionist at Zoe. We're going to bring her on to chat everything nutrition, everything gut, everything brain, everything food. So get ready for that. So many questions. I've got so many questions. Many questions. Okay, that will be next Wednesday. Thank you so much for listening to the episode today. And we'll see you next week for another episode of Great Company.

1:04:45Great Company. Great Company.

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