TOM ASPINALL: Eddie Hearn Is Right - UFC Fighters Deserve More

0:00When you walk out into the ring and there's a big crowd, what is that feeling like? Trust me when I tell you fighters get scared. It's fucking scary, man. And all the stuff that everybody else says is bullshit. I've seen people passing out because they're so scared. Like I used to have like two fights. One fight would be against my opponent, but the harder fight would be like against myself. And trying to convince myself like, yeah, I'm not scared.

0:23That's never going to go away. I'm Tom Aspinall and I'm in great company. The UFC heavyweight champion of the world. Heavyweight champion of the world. We've got to talk about Eddie Hearn. Because you just signed with Eddie's agency. Yep. Matchroom. Eddie really cares about fighters getting what they're worth. And I want to get what I'm worth. I want to maximize my opportunity while I'm fighting as much as possible. But there is this narrative that the UFC don't pay their fighters well enough. You don't have to say you, but if there's a UFC champion and it's a championship fight, what are kind of paychecks that they're looking at in the UFC?

0:56Would you want actual numbers? I would love it. Between. And what I love is that you were open about your son's autism. So we had my twins. We started noticing that, like, one was a little bit slower than the other was stuff. Just by chance. Paddy McGuinness watched his documentary about autism. Paddy's got three kids that have got autism. And honestly, I could have been finishing the sentences for Paddy and his wife. Really? We tried to get him diagnosed on the NHS, right? Yeah. We've still not been for an appointment. And it was five years ago. You know, there's good and bad situations in all life, but you got to try and make the best of it, I think.

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4:11Guys, welcome back to Great Company. so excited for today's episode because i'm a huge ufc fan we have the heavyweight champion of the world ufc fighter tom aspinall on the show man this episode goes all over the place we talk about so many different things i cannot wait for you to listen okay before we start i just want to ask one quick favor if you can please subscribe to our show click that button it's completely for free and it takes one second it means you join our incredible community it keeps making our show better and better and we keep getting better guests just for you guys you can do that one thing thank you so much enjoy this huge episode of great company with usc heavyweight champion tom aspinall before we start i've got something for you to try okay um you're from wigan that's up for debate yeah it's up for debate okay it's up for debate well this top bit doesn't work then if it's up for debate well it seems like food so i'm definitely gonna try it that's got to be food in there on it yeah yeah no it's a little bird that i've okay um wait where are you if you're off of Wigan where you from?

5:11Well it's all a bit subjective so like uh it's from I won't even bore you with the details. Listen I won't be bored. It's so boring for anyone who's not from that area but uh like we don't really claim Wigan from where I'm from it's more like Manchester area it's just a big mess. So you wouldn't know what a Wigan kebab? Yes of course I would. Okay so can you explain? It's a pie so it's a you do it with bread or a balm? Balm being a roll Yeah. What do you call it? I would call it a bread roll. Bread roll. Yeah. So you get like a bread roll. Yeah. Put a pie in the middle. Eats it. It's just crazy.

5:46Have you tried it though? It does work. I haven't. So I've got you. I've got you here. Depends what pie you were talking about. Well, I'll tell you why I've got you. I've got you a... That's a pasty though. What? What's the difference between... It's a pie? That's a pasty. How do you know it's a pasty from looking at it? Because I've got eyes that work. How do you... What's the difference between a pasty and a pie? That is completely different. Hang on a second. This is... That is a pasty, isn't it? Okay. It's a pasty. Tell me the difference between a pasty and a... That's a pasty bar. It's not a wig and kabab.

6:13What's the difference? They're both in pastry with meat in it or whatever it is. But the shape is completely different. Like, look, let me do a sniff test on there. Don't think it's even meat and potato, is it? Let's have a look. Oh, yeah, it is meat. It's like a steak pasty, yeah. So a pasty is a different shape? Yeah. Yeah, I can't believe it. Pie is shaped like this, right? Yeah. Okay, well, hang on. What determines a pie? Well, I don't know the logistics of it. I just know the difference between them. I would say a pie is basically like something wrapped in pastry. No, that's definite pasty.

6:47100%. What? That's not even a wig and kebab. No, it's not. It looks good, though, to be fair. You want to try a bite? I'll have a bite. I'll have a bite after you. So this is what you get after a night out? You have it for tea? What do you... Look at that. It's a good pasty, to be fair. It's not bad. All right. I'm going to go the other end of it. Here we go. Oh, it's quite nice, actually. All right. I mean, there's a lot of yeast. It's a bit dry, to be honest. I grew up, like, I'm a huge sports fan, right? Huge, massive. And I got into sort of combat sport when I was like, so I used to do judo from like a very young age, never to like a high standard.

7:26I got like a blue belt, whatever it was. But I've always had a fascination with boxing, used to love boxing more than anything, when it was like Lennox Lewis and people like that, right? Especially that era. Then I got into UFC and watching that. And when I first became understanding of it, that, wait, this sport out there doesn't really have any rules and you can fight in this cage. And it was kind of amazing and unbelievable. So sit next to the heavyweight champion of the world. Man. Good. Well, mate, I'm happy to be here. When you first went into your first cage fight, what was going through your head?

7:56I remember it well, actually. It was at a nightclub called the Oceana in Wolverhampton. Man, let's go. I love an Oceana. and uh why was it in an ocean i have no idea and so i think i was like 18 at the time yeah and somehow like wolverhampton felt like somewhat exotic because it was like 90 minutes away from home i was like oh this is a this is a big trip this is a big city delights and uh yeah it all felt pretty normal to be honest because i'd already like so it's mixed martial arts is the name of our sport that involves obviously a mix of martial arts that involves boxing kickboxing wrestling karate judo grappling jiu-jitsu all these different stuff and i'd already pretty much competed in all of it growing up anyway every single one pretty much like give or take uh i'd competed in nearly everything so by the time i was like 18 or 17 how old I was when I had my first fight.

8:58It was pretty obvious that that's what I was going to do, yeah. Is it nerve-wracking that first actual fight? Or not really? Or is it just like, this is like my training, I'm just going in and doing? No, it's nerve-wracking. Of course it is, yeah. But talk me through it, because I meet you today, right? This is the first time we've met. And I see, it doesn't feel like you'd be scared by much or intimidated by that many people. That's the sort of, like, you have this sort of, and the guys were saying it, you know, you have this sort of really like great energy where you you're comfortable to talk to but also you feel i i i i feel like if i was married to you i'd be super protected that's what i feel like i don't know how to take that to be honest i don't know just let me process that for a minute before i say thanks uh so i don't understand how when you you would i don't understand how fear would come from you that's that's what i'm trying to get yeah well it does it definitely does Really?

9:53Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't think of much scarier than having to fight somebody. Yeah, it's fucking scary, man. It's the most refreshing thing I've heard. Because I think most fighters, what you see, is that they're going into it, I'm not scared, I'm not worried. Who cares about this? Yeah, I'm ready for this. But there can't be anything scarier than going into an organized fight with someone who's also another killer. Do you know what? I see a lot of fighters talking about that on interviews and stuff. listen I've been in I've been in changing rooms and locker rooms or whatever you want to call it I've been backstage at MMA events all my life yeah trust me when I tell you fighters get scared you might not say it I've seen people throw I've seen people passing out because they're so scared seeing people throwing up on multiple occasions because they don't yeah because they're that scared so yeah people sit in front of cameras all the time and say yeah I'm not scared it's this you know it's been the best training of my life and I'm going to take you out in the first round and all the stuff that everybody else says is bullshit.

10:53It's bullshit. You're blagging your way to trying to convince yourself that that's what's going on. So how much is it mentality where you're trying to trick yourself not to be like that? Yeah, a lot. A lot. And that's fine. Like, if that's your approach, like, fair play. I found that the opposite works better for me. It's like, I would rather just say, yeah, I'm just pretty scared here. Like, I'm pretty nervous. And I feel like once I accept that, it helps me in a way. Like, yeah, I just feel like it helps me because, uh, I say a lot, like I used to have like two fights, one fight would be against my opponent, but the harder fight would be like against myself and trying to convince myself like, yeah, I'm not scared.

11:33I don't want to, I'm not nervous. And like, that's never going to go away. That I accepted like quite a long time ago. Uh, are you familiar with a guy called GSP? It might've been the greatest, uh, UFC fighter of all time. Well, he actually spoke to me about it personally. And he told me that once he realized like, that's not going to go away, you've got to use it like to help you. Then it all changed. And like he said it way more articulately than I just said it. He said it over like 10 minutes. Explained to me how he deals with it, how he accepts it, how he makes it work for him and stuff. And yeah, that conversation changed my whole outlook on it all.

12:11Yeah. Do you know what? I had a big moment. So, and I spoke a lot about on the show, right? I had like anxiety a lot, like in my twenties. I just didn't understand it. Right. I just had this anxiety within me. And I spoke to a therapist finally who said, I just wish you could accept it. I just accept it. Accept that you just have this anxiety. And I went, no, I'm not going to accept it. That's not me. I can't accept it. And as soon as I accepted it, it was like this road to freedom. And it's weird that once we start accepting things in life, accepting that we're fearful, accepting that we're like scared to have kids or become a dad or scared that we're going to be, it kind of, it sets you free.

12:42yeah something that um i should actually just even listen to you say that i should actually maybe think about it more because i think all the time we're trying to perceive ourself as something like i don't want to be scared i don't want to whatever the emotion is i don't want to be embarrassed if i do sometimes maybe we should just talk about it more maybe that'll help dude without there was the um austin butler the actor do you know who austin butler i don't think so okay also he played elvis and he then anyway he is just this quote from him was phenomenal that I heard. He said that embarrassment is an emotion that we don't explore.

13:14I've seen the quote. I've seen it on Instagram. It keeps popping up. Maybe my algorithm needs to show it. But it's true. He says embarrassment is an emotion that we need to explore more deeply or whatever it is, which is so true because we don't explore it because we're so worried about those things to explore. But hearing from you, the UFC heavyweight champion of the world saying that you're scared to go into the ring, that will make other fighters, other people in life go, why is he scared? I'm okay to feel that. Well, I think people get it confused. It's a fear, but it's not a fear to the point where I don't want to do it sure obviously there's points of me that are definitely like what are you doing don't but I feel like that's just quite natural do you know like if you're on a rollercoaster right and you're about to like you're on the bit that drops down yeah like you're definitely scared but it's the great feeling at the same time and that's the like kind of the way I feel when I'm going to fight is like I'm definitely scared but it's going to happen so let's try and enjoy it we need to talk about your last fight against Sir again yeah I watched the fight there was an eye poke that happened you went down what is your memory of that moment?

14:15well I got poked in both eyes yeah I won't recommend it it's not very fun absolutely not very fun so I got poked in both eyes how deep did it go? I've never had anything like it never had anything like it both eyes and my vision was just completely gone in one eye. Nothing. It was just completely black for about four weeks and it was probably the scariest experience of my life. It was horrendous. What are your eyes like now? Really good, actually. I've had three surgeries. I had one on the left and two on the right. By the way, I've had the snip, right? I've had a vasectomy. And I was thinking like, that is got to be the worst surgery ever.

15:03Mate, compared to eye surgery, it is nothing. Are you serious? Honestly. Are you serious? Honestly, yeah. Eye surgery is horrible. It's fucking horrendous, honestly. They lay awake. So they kept me awake. Oh, they're going in? Yeah. So I lay awake, right? They put something on to keep your eyeball open like that. And obviously they numb it and stuff. Where does the numb it? Do you get into your eye? Yeah, yeah, they numb your eye. They inject your eye? So they did like drops and then they did an injection on the side. Yeah. And mate, they're coming at you with like a scalpel or a knife or whatever it's called.

15:39And you're just watching them slice your eyeball open. You're just like, what? He's got it. Mate, it was horrendous. It was horrible. I don't want to do that again. Was there moments where you thought you weren't going to see again? At first, mate, I was super scared about it, to be honest. Yeah. The first, especially like the first two weeks. Yeah. I was really scared about it, to be honest. Yeah, it would be scary. That would be a hundred percent, without a doubt. because I remember watching it and I think the heartbreaking thing as a fan of yours, right, was that you go down and you're just like, I can't.

16:09Yeah. And then there's this like backlash and... Yeah, but mate, you've got to understand, right, this is something that I've learned to understand like the hard way. When you're fighting somebody, you're just Saturday night entertainment. That's it. So like, if you're not in that fight, then people are going to root against you and that's the way it is. It's shit. It's a bad situation but I can't expect millions of people to care for me personally like they want to see me have a fight with somebody because that's what they paid that's what they paid for and it's shit and it's harsh and it's not very nice but that's what it is and uh what comments do you get afterwards I still get comments like oh he fucking ducked out the fight he didn't want to be there and stuff like that but mate a lot of MMA fans have also never had a fight in their life and I don't expect them to understand what it takes to get to where I've got to it's just as simple as that and you don't see many fighters coming out and saying it do you know what i mean it's always like people who've never had a fight if you're going to comment on the toughness if you're going to sit behind your phone and comment on the toughness of like a professional mma fighter then you don't really know what you're talking about do you know what i mean and uh i've had to learn the hard way because i got a lot of uh backlash and stuff it was weird because obviously i got the eye poke and everything and then i found out that like i I needed surgery and I got a whole diagnosis on it and everything.

17:34And I was getting a lot of backlash and I thought, right, if I get like a doctor's note together and post that, that that'll just like, mate, then I post it and everyone's just like, yeah, fake doctor's note, did it on chat GPT. And I'm just like, right, I can't fucking win here. I'm just going to not say anything else about it then. Have you ever in your life ducked out of a fight? No. Mate, it's mad because the UFC matchmakers, right, I'm like renowned for just saying yeah to everything. Like when I won the interim title in New York, mate, I was literally hung over when they rung me because I'd just come back from a stag do.

18:12I was outrageously out of shape. That's why I come in with like love handles and everything. And the fight was in two weeks fighting like the scariest guy in the division at the time. So no, absolutely not. but you're never gonna like a lot of MMA fans are just knuckleheads and that's that's just the way it is we've got to talk about Eddie Hearn oh yeah because you just signed with Eddie's agency yeah Matchroom yep amazing what Eddie's done is impressive yeah I think so too super impressive and I think you guys aligned feels really exciting and he's now he's got a lot of beef with Dana White yeah and he's come out and said I've got a quote I would like Dana White to release Tom Aspinall from his UFC contract and I will guarantee Dana White that I will pay Tom a minimum perhaps five times more but a minimum of three times more what Dana White's paying him Dana White should be happy about the offer because Tom Aspinall is very unhappy Yep Do you want me to do you want me to react to that?

19:12Yeah Right Eddie so I wanted to like extend my team a little bit Eddie's now part of my team in that sense and and Eddie really cares like him and my dad work together my dad's still my manager Eddie like kind of advises me on stuff and does stuff commercially for me as well Eddie really cares about the fighters getting what they're worth and I want to get what I'm worth do you know what I mean and yeah that's what I want to do I want to maximise my opportunity while I'm fighting as much as possible so Eddie and my dad are working together not just Eddie but all of Matt's room are working together with my dad on that kind of stuff.

19:55Look, I know you probably can't be that open. And look, if you want to bypass this question, totally fine. But there is this narrative that the UFC don't pay their fighters well enough. Yeah. What is your view on that?

20:08I mean, athletes are always looking for more money. Agreed. I get that. But there's a difference between asking for more money and actually being paid what you're worth. Yeah. I think that if you're risking your health, you should get paid the absolute maximum possible, is what I think. And... Yeah, I mean, there's been so many times throughout the years where money's not even come into the equation for me because I'm just so hungry to fight that that's what I want to do. But now you've got to look after your family, you've got to look after your future, and it's a short career. Yeah, exactly.

20:36Especially, it's difficult because for fighters, there's only one place to go, really, if you want to be the best in the world, and that's the UFC. But I would like everyone to get paid as much as possible. Not just me, everybody. Well, give me a range. I've seen boxers, right? Let's talk about boxing. you know it's a different sport I get it's different scenarios understandably maybe it's a wider audience lots different things but they can be paid towards 100 million yeah that's great if there's no one wants to pay me that I'm absolutely you down yeah you'd fight Jake I'd fight three people for that at the same time your dad was a um or is a he's a jiu-jitsu coach wasn't he yeah so when did you first start fighting um i first started training so i feel like a lot of people in it so mma when i first started training was like way different to what it is now we're talking i'm 33 i've been training since i was about 10 ish yeah maybe less maybe it's hard to say when i've really first started training because i used to go to the gym with my dad just because i didn't really have much else to do but it was it was way is difficult for people to imagine now so in them days it wasn't like there's professional fighters, regular people who do fighting training, and then a kid's class between 10 and 16, and then under 10.

21:57It wasn't like that. It was literally a load of guys between the 30s and 50s meeting up to have a fight in some worn-down gym. Are you serious? And that was it. Do you know what I mean? There wasn't professional athletes really doing it then. We're talking over 20 years ago. So like I just started going to the gym with my dad to just, I don't know, I had nothing else to do. So I was just going to the gym, watching training, kicking a football around at the side of the mat and stuff like that. And I was always like involved with it, but I was also kind of training with guys who were, because you said between the age of 25 and 50, do you know what I mean?

22:37And I was 10. So it was like a bit, I don't, when I actually really started. Sparring with them? like moving around with them but they would like take it very easy on me do you know what i mean and then when i was probably about 15 14 15 that's probably when i started actual serious training because that that from that young age that like 10 years old that's that kind of muscle memory you feel the way you move you feel what it's like you kind of like you you grow up in that environment it's kind of within you that means yeah do you know what i see uh my dad is like really clever guy in ways that I only realise now because he now like plays with my kids and he is sneakily teaching them how to fight without them realising it and I feel like that's what he did with me a lot just like little games that they play and like little balance exercises they'll do and stuff like that I didn't realise at the time he was like teaching me how to fight but now when I watch it with my kids I'm like they're actually learning how to fight and they don't even know it.

23:41They just think they're playing a game. Because your dad was one of the first jiu-jitsu black belts in the UK, right? Yeah, that's right. Which for anyone who doesn't understand how the belt scheme works, you start as a white belt and then you go up different colours until you get to a black belt, right? Exactly. But getting to a black belt takes how many years typically? Oh, it can take usually about 10, 12, 15, something like that. Especially then. It was way different then. It was way different. It was not... Like it's changed, even in my time doing it, which is 20-ish years, MMA has just changed massively.

24:11It's so different than it used to be in this country. Really? Yeah. It's just so big now. Like every town that you're in, there's an MMA gym. 20 years ago, you couldn't even find anywhere to train MMA. It was way different. Do you think your dad always wanted you to be a fighter? Yes. Yes. But I wouldn't want the same for my kids. Explain that to me. It's a tough sport, mate. It's tough. and I'm like one of the very lucky ones. So I went watching a local show, I say recently, it wasn't recently, it was probably like six months ago now, maybe a little bit longer. I took my friend and he'd never been to like an MMA show before really.

24:48You see my fights and stuff on the TV, but he'd never been to like a local show. And there was maybe 12 fights on the card, so 24 fighters. And he was like, you just asked me, so how many of these guys on this event will like be able to buy a house from fighting. And I was like, do you know what? Probably none. Like it's really rare that anybody makes any kind of like money, especially like generational wealth from it. So I class myself, very lucky. Yeah, I heard that your first ever fight that you did, you got paid 200 pounds. Around that, yeah. Might have been less, might have been 150. To go into like a cage, do MMA?

25:30Yeah, it was a crazy show. So I remember I was warming up and when you're in the changing rooms to warm up, that's like the time when you're mainly getting your mind ready to what's going to happen. And I was warming up and I remember these kids were in the changing room and they were like playing catch with a pad, you know, like pads that light through. And I was just like, what is going on? then uh yeah just different times like in them days it was just way different than what it is now it's changed so much yeah apparently growing up you were you weren't even that tall and then you got you had a growth spurt when that's right that's right so it's 16 17 you suddenly grew from five foot eight around that yeah something like that six foot five yeah i don't know how that happened i don't know i don't know what's going on i don't know how old are you 18 i think your your chance has gone on it.

26:26But yeah, you know what? My, my brother was tall. My brother's like the same height as me around that. He was tall like way earlier. I only got tall, but you know what? When it comes to fighting, I think it helped me a lot

26:40because I like what I was like. I learned to fight like a small guy. Explain that to me. He doesn't understand. Right. So if a guy my size walks into a gym off the street, generally speaking, he's like, they'll be able to have a lot of holes in the game technically because they'll be able to get away with doing stuff wrong because they're so much bigger than everybody else. Right, so they have the power over. Yeah, does that make sense? That makes total sense. Because they've got a lot bigger physical attributes than everybody else. Got it. They will have holes technically in the game because they're able to compensate the holes with physicality.

27:18Whereas when I was small, I wasn't very physical at all. So I had to learn the right, the quote unquote right way. The technique to do it. Exactly, yeah. And I think that helped me in the long term. That's so interesting. So you had to learn how to fight properly. You just couldn't use your weight and your size. Well, that's one of the advantages of starting as a small guy, as a kid. Yeah. Because a lot of big guys, like, especially around my area, people will play rugby and then come to fighting after. That's generally what happens. Or they'll do something physical before. And they'll already be so big and strong that they can dominate most.

27:51guys without even having any technique just because they're big and strong but i didn't have that because i was small and small i had to rely on technique so when i grew as when i got big and strong physical and technique as well obviously that helps a lot what was your backup plan if you didn't make it didn't have one there was no no i had a little bit like i worked a few jobs and stuff um did a little bit of studying but a little bit let's say that very loosely um but everything that I was doing was just towards me doing what I'm doing now, basically. It was all just like funding. Everything.

28:26Funding the dream. Yeah, pretty much. Parents together? Parents together, yeah. Did your mum ever watch your fights? My mum's been to one of my fights when I fought in Manchester, which was a couple of years ago now, but because I'm fighting like international all the time. And she was just like, this is probably the only time I'm going to watch. I don't think she actually watched the fight, but she was in the arena. Excuse me, to be fair, there's not a chance I would watch my kids fight either. So I respect, listen, cage fighting isn't for everybody and I completely get it. It's not everybody's cup of tea.

28:58Same way tennis isn't everyone's cup of tea. Same way rugby is not someone's cup of tea. Ping pong, volleyball, it goes on and on. Like I ain't going to watch a game of volleyball. It's not my scene, but the same for MMA. It's not for everybody. What was life like away from the gym, away from training, away from fighting? like happy like good like friends everything like that was it was it a good life good i mean predominantly your friend your best friendships are the people you spend the most time with 100 so a lot of my friends are predominantly mma fighters or in the mma world uh but i do have friends outside as well and not just uh i don't just befriend cage fighters only um yeah all good yeah nothing to uh nothing to complain about the because you gave a great quote, which is where people, it's something like you say, people see success, but success takes years to make.

29:51And a lot of people don't realize that, that it actually takes the time that you were when you were 10 years old, right? When you go to the gym with your dad to where you are now, they just see you now, but you don't, don't see the years of the training, the commitment and the sacrifice that you have to go through the whole time. Yeah. I'm not just, uh, landed here by chance, which is, uh, it's weird though, but like only the people who are not willing to sacrifice all that stuff will say that. Do you know what I mean? It's like anybody, this is what I found more and more over the years. It's like anybody with any success respects everybody else who's got any kind of success as well.

30:25It's like, um, the people who haven't got, you know, they don't have a lot of money. They always automatically think that the people, the people who have money have a really good life. And it just, it isn't always the case. And it's the same like with success. It's like, I would never understand somebody who's never put herself out there and been through what I've been through to understand what it's like to be here. Do you know what I mean? But talk me through that personal sacrifice. What sacrifices do you have to make? Well, a lot. I really have to sacrifice my body a lot of the time. Yeah.

30:57Yeah, I've got a lot of injuries. Same as any sports person, do you know what I mean? I've been training for a bit of a professional sports person all my adult life. So, yeah, you pick up injuries along the way, obviously. financially was tough for a long time. Yeah. That was tough.

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32:57pitched at this as a couples therapy day. Sometimes I don't feel like I'm hurt. That's all I'm saying. Washing machines live longer with Calgon. Yeah! Prince Harry on Joe Muller Will See You Now is out now. Watch it on YouTube or Spotify or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts.

33:19You had kids pretty young. Yeah. You had kids at 23 years old. Yes. What's harder, do you think? becoming a UFC champion or raising your kids? Oh, that's a good question. Raising kids is not easy. I don't know. You know, I see some people. So, I got like friends who have got kids and anytime somebody says to me like, the kids are amazing, which obviously you think your kids are amazing. Don't get me wrong. 100%. But anybody who just says positive stuff about the kids, I'm always thinking like, yeah, you're not around enough. Honestly. And I'm just like, yeah, like having kids is hard work, man.

34:02If you like care about raising them properly, I think it's really hard. Yeah, I agree. Like, um, I really try, like that's my most important project in life is to try and make my kids as good as possible. Why is that so important to you? I don't know. I don't like, why not? Why would it not be? Yeah, because no, the question, the reason I asked that is this, is that I was speaking to a friend of mine, he's called Amal Rajan, right? He's a journalist interviewer. And he has a podcast where he talks to different people. And he was saying to me that the majority of men he interviews, and he asked them what their biggest regret is in life.

34:38The majority of the answer is they weren't around enough when their kids were young. And they can't change that 25 years later, 30 years later, 15 years later, whatever it is, they missed it. And they always say that. But you subconsciously will, without knowing, know that you want to be there with your kids, raising them up and then the side of that is like okay this is my job i'm a fighter but most people swap around and go no success in my in my business life that's what i want to achieve more over than family life well it depends it depends the way you look at it because um some people need and i think i'm one of these people as well like if i wasn't like chasing success i wouldn't be the person at home that i am now because i i would like feel unfulfilled Do you know what I mean?

35:22So I feel like I need to be achieving, because I was actually speaking about this yesterday with Joe Mahler. Great guy. Big shout out to Joe Mahler. Yeah, I love Joe Mahler. We were talking about it. And he said he was kind of kidding himself in his rugby career where he's like, to his wife and kids, like, I'm doing this for you. And I definitely have been guilty of that being, like, to my kids, I'm doing this for you. Like, I want to give you a nice house and a good place to grow up in. But ultimately, I'm doing it for me, to be honest. but I think that I'm like as a as a subject of that like something that subconsciously they get from it is like I'm like mentally fulfilled through chasing this goal that I've got so I'm better at home with them if that makes sense yeah because you don't have an itch to scratch if I was going to a job every day that I hated say I was digging up roads for example if I'm digging up a road all day I'm going to be getting back and pissed off and I'm not going to be the best dad for my kids because I'm doing something that I hate every day and then I'm doing it for them.

36:22But I also maybe like subconsciously I'm pissed off with them because I'm doing something all day that I don't like. If that makes sense. It makes perfect sense. And what you're saying is, which is so true, is that when you're fulfilled in your own personal life, you can become a better parent because you've achieved what you want to achieve. Otherwise, if you're constantly chasing that, you're not going to feel fulfilled and then you're going to be irritated at home because you're not fulfilling what you want to fulfill. So there'll be people listening and thinking, what are you talking about?

36:47Shouldn't you know what I mean? No, but I actually don't think that's why. I think people would agree. I think if people really put a mirror on themselves a lot of the time, and I think it's fair to say, is that the reason maybe they're not present at home or not present with their friends or their family or their kids or whatever it is, could be anyone, is probably because they're trying to scratch an itch they haven't scratched yet. Yeah, I struggle with not being present, though. Oh, yeah. I struggle with that bad, especially at home. I've got to be better at it. Like, I spend a lot of time at home, and I do that.

37:16like I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I can be at home basically as much as I want or a lot of the time and sometimes I'm just not present you know man I've got to be better what are you doing what are you doing not being present what are you thinking about everything scrolling which is a terrible habit to have yeah trying my best to get rid of that leaving the phone upstairs fares me good do you know I usually go for that and just like thinking about other stuff rather than just being present and being in the room I've got to be way better at that That's something that I'm trying to work on.

37:47Tom, what I find amazing about you as well is that like, even in this short conversation, how open and honest you are about stuff, right? And what I love is that you're so, you were open about your son's autism. Yeah. And the way that you discovered, if I'm right, is that you're watching Paddy McGinnis and his wife's TV show. Yeah, we've done good research. Fair play. Yeah, so it was, so my twins were born 2019, just before COVID hit. Yeah. And I've got an older son as well. and everybody gets hung up on this milestones thing with a kid. Like, oh, is your kid talking at this age? Are they walking at this age?

38:22Are they crawling at this age? Are they doing this or whatever? So we had my twins just before COVID and we started noticing that one was a little bit slower than the other was stuff.

38:38And that's what you do with twins anyway is you constantly compare them. Do you know what I mean? Oh, he's doing this. this one's not doing this this one's doing this and we were doing a bit of that um but then my wife started saying like got to the age where they kind of like starting to talk and respond and stuff like that and uh my wife got to the stage and she was like yeah he's i think he's like quite behind with stuff and i was like no we're in like we were like two two years inside pretty much like we've barely seen anybody apart from we see my parents who you know every now and again because they kept putting these lockdowns in and then they had like no like real outside the house experience if that.

39:19Wow. It was really weird. It was, yeah, it was like, did let us out for a couple of weeks and we go and see people and then another lockdown would start. So we thought that like he was delayed a bit because of that. And then we're starting, you obviously do the thing where you start Googling and they're like twins are slower than everybody else. And you know, they don't get as much one-on-one attention and et cetera. Um, um, So I was like buying into that, what I was reading. And I was like, look, it's just because of the lockdown. It's just because he's a twin, this, that, and the other. I'm not worried about it, blah, blah, blah.

39:49I think I was pretty much in denial at that stage. And also sleep deprived and everything was going on. There was a lot going on. This was a really weird time for me in my personal life as well. Like in my professional life, sorry. Because I was like flying everywhere to fight. And the world was like still on lockdown. And it was just a really weird time for me. so you're fighting in front of people but there's no audiences yeah there's no audiences yeah yeah so i was like flying to vegas flying to abu dhabi and fighting in front of like having fights with people in empty rooms basically which just feels like an organized it was so it was so weird it's such a weird time in my life um but anyway we started um just by chance um paddy mcginnis who i know paddy now this was like years ago and watched this documentary about autism paddy's got three kids that have got autism yeah and it was just all about the different ways autism presents itself the way it affects your life and yeah just i knew absolutely nothing on autism at the time and yeah i was watching all this different stuff and honestly i could have been finishing the sentences for paddy and his wife when i was watching i was like wow no way um anyway fast forward a little bit further i actually did a did you know a question sport the game show yeah paddy was hosting i don't know if it's still going actually that question sport but anyway i was on it paddy was hosting it met paddy for the first time and uh i asked him about it i said listen i've watched your documentary and um i think there's like some signs of my son having autism can you help like what what shall i do i literally didn't know what to do like what do i do and uh he was like give me give me the lady's number and he was like honestly doesn't matter if they get diagnosed or not.

41:35It doesn't matter if you put a label on them or not. The thing is, when they get diagnosis, they'll get help instantly, pretty much. So give me the number. Anyway, this is fast forward in like quite a long time, maybe like 18 months. And I went through all the diagnosis stuff. I had to pay for it privately as well, which I'm completely aware that like not many people are in that position where they can afford to pay it privately. So I'm very lucky on that. Expensive? It was expensive. yeah just for like I think it was I can't remember the exact price I'd love to I don't want to say it and it'd be wrong but it was expensive I know that it was I think it was around the five six grand mark I think it's a lot of money it's a lot of money so much money because believe it or not so I'm just going to go on a bit of a tangent okay we tried to get him diagnosed on the NHS right yeah we've still not been for appointment and it was five years ago we've still not we've still not been for a diagnosis appointment and we've not let the NHS know that he's been diagnosed.

42:37So anyway, back to the... Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hang on a second. That's crazy. The issue that we've got is, I don't know if it's the NHS or the government or whoever, because like now my son is in a regular school, but he's got like a one-on-one with him all day. So he's got like somebody who helps him. So if he gets like, if he doesn't understand what's going on, he gets overwhelmed or autism presents itself in loads of different ways. So everyone's unique. but the one-on-one teacher is there for him to help him if he needs it all day which is amazing that's absolutely amazing but that is only because we got a diagnosis if he was to be in the regular school now that he's in and he's been there two years or three years he wouldn't have coped like he wouldn't have coped without a one-to-one and you can only get a one-to-one if you got a diagnosis and i'm completely aware that not everybody has got the five or six grand how much it costs to get them diagnosed.

43:28So these people, these families out there who have got absolutely no idea on what to do with the kids. They're getting no help at school. They're getting no help socially. They're getting no help educationally. They're literally sat at home with absolutely no guidance on how to deal with autism, how the future is going to look, the steps they're put in place. They don't know anything because they can't even get an appointment to get the kids seen by anybody related to autism. So that's the reason I talk about it because I'm completely aware. I'm from a blue collar background. I've been through times when I've had absolutely no money in the bank and I've had to borrow money from people all over the place.

44:02I'm completely aware that not everybody's got that money to pay. And I know families personally, people come up to me all the time in the street and talk about it and ask for how to get a diagnosis without paying. And I have no idea other than talk about it every time I can. No, and firstly, thank you for sharing, dude. Because that's like, yeah, I think that this conversation is super important. And that's so upsetting to imagine that there are kids out there in schools that haven't got a diagnosis and they're probably having a tough time in school. Yeah. And there's a lot of them. Honestly, like I said, everywhere I go, someone talks to me about autism.

44:39Everywhere. And I'm not banging the drum all the time. Do you know what I mean? I've just mentioned it on a couple of interviews. Totally. People need, like families, need help. It's as simple as that. Families desperately need help. And look, autism is what it is. you're not going to be able to change the person who's got autism, the way they operate, the mind works and everything. Look, they are what they are. And everyone's got their own little ways and little ways around stuff and the way the mind works and everything. But what can help is the day-to-day life of the families can make it a lot easier for everybody, including the child or adult, to help them navigate through life.

45:18And they're just not getting it. When you watched that documentary and you then got your son's diagnosis, did it help you understand it or was it relief or was it what what did you feel well it's difficult because i used to look at autism in a different way i used to look at like a disability which i guess it is class i don't know if it is actually but um and i used to think no that's my son's not disabled do you know i mean i used to look at it like that and it's not like you just learn that that's the way it is and that's the way they're gonna be the mind works in their own way and you have to like navigate your way around that.

45:56Like I said, it's never, because I see people like, even in comment sections on stuff about autism, people's like, oh, everyone's looking for like some diagnosis or like some ADHD next to the name or some autism. Like it's not about putting a label on somebody. It's about getting people the help that they need. It's nothing to do with somebody walk around and saying, oh yeah, well, I can't do this because I'm autistic. It's nothing to do with that. it's to do with helping the child and the families navigate a proper path through life and that's what people don't seem to understand sometimes i had h who you know on the show i love h man he's so great he his sister has dancing yeah he speaks so beautifully about her and he was talking to me about how his sister gracie changed his life in the most incredible way and people who are naive to it or don't understand it or fearful of all these things actually don't even know how their life becomes like a flower like blossoms open and you see life in a different way and I imagine that's what happened with your son oh definitely like honestly my son out of my three kids my wife say this all the time he is like the easiest kid he's just so lovely all the time and my other ones are just running around pissing me off I'm just like why can't you just be like him He's just sat there and he's just enjoying himself.

47:19And he's not, don't like, he's just so nice. But yeah, it's such a, it's difficult to say because everybody's autism presents itself in a whole massive spectrum of different ways. But the ways that he's got is the most beautiful thing ever. He's so lovely. If someone's listening right now, right, who perhaps really needs that advice, is there any particular advice that you had always given or you could say to them that could maybe navigate their journey at the moment? I think you just got, it's difficult because everyone's going to process things differently, aren't they? And like I said, I was, I was on the, I was on the team of no, that's not happening.

47:56He's not autistic. There's nothing wrong with him. Denial, denial, denial. Yeah. Totally get it. That's the way I was. But I think you just got to try and understand. And I have not completed the autism mission by any shit. Like it's going to be an ongoing thing for the rest of our lives. And things are going to change. And one day is good. And one day is bad. And one day they like this. and one day they don't like this and it's constantly like ebbing and flowing constantly but i think you just got to try and make it the best for everybody that it can be and that's the only way you can get through i think anything in life you know there's good and bad situations in all life but you gotta try and make the best of it i think man i love that attitude 100 your wife must be oh she's an angel super yeah she's an absolute angel i'd be uh yeah she's i wouldn't be anywhere near close to my position if it wasn't her.

48:47What's the best thing about your wife? The best thing about her is, that's a great question. I've been here all day naming them, I think. But I think she is the kindest person I've ever met on something that she does really well, though. And I don't think this is the best thing about her, by the way. I just think this is something that I respect a lot. Yeah. is if something's like not, she can cut stuff off really good, like really quick. If something's getting in the way of the family or distracting the family or somebody's negative around, she can just cut them off. And I've got a lot of respect for that.

49:28I wish I was better at that. That's something I look at her and I'm like, you're fucking good at that. Why? Because you have to hold on to things a bit more. Yeah, I just think she's just, she's lived a completely different life to me. And I don't want to talk about her life too much because she doesn't like the public eye stuff at all. So I respect that completely. 100%. So I won't talk about her life, but her life's been completely different to mine. If something isn't serving her happiness or someone isn't kind to her or isn't kind to our family or isn't coming with the right energy, she'd cut it off like that.

50:02And I just think that is amazing to be able to do that. Man, that is mad respect. Yeah, and I just think I need to learn from that a little bit because I've sometimes maybe held on to things too long or kept people around too long who are not in the right for the right reasons stuff. And I think that sometimes, yeah, she's really good at just being like, that's not helping. Let's just leave it there.

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51:44Let's talk about your career. I've had a bit of a weird career, to be honest. Still ongoing. What do you mean? I've had big hiates in my career. I'm going to give you the front. 15 wins. Yes. Three losses. Yes. Forget about those. Yeah. Listen, they happen. You learn from them. You move forward. I'm thankful for the losses, you know. A hundred percent. You learn from them, baby. I get it. Yep. 12 of your wins were won in under one minute, 35 seconds. Oh, I didn't know that. It's a good start, though. Yeah. I'm freaking believable. I might put that on the Instagram bio. That's a good. Who's been your toughest opponent?

52:21Truthfully.

52:24That's a good question. I had a fight pretty early on. I think he was in my third UFC fight, I think, against a guy called Andrei Arlovsky. He was like a former hero of mine. He was a former champion himself as well. When we fought, he was like 40-ish, I think. So, you know, he's a little bit older. He was coming off a big win streak and I'd not really got my feet wet yet. Do you know what I mean? It was like a massive occasion for me. First time fighting in Vegas as well. Big, big, big. That was big. but it was actually in COVID so it was like a bit weird. I did fight like with about 500 people watching so it wasn't like a big stadium or anything.

53:03In that fight I got, it's weird to talk about eye stuff but I did get punched in the eye and I couldn't see for most of the fight. Same eye? Well, my last fight was both eyes. But yeah, it was my right eye I think. I can't remember. But yeah, most of the fight I actually couldn't see so that was a bit weird as well. but yeah that was a tough fight because he was just tough and he's and he's been through it so he gets yeah not because he was tough more because of who he was and where i was at the time yeah like at the time i was like nobody really knew me and he was like even though he's a bit older he was still on a winning streak at the time when i fought him and he was still ranked and i knew who he was and followed his career and stuff like that and so that feels like more pressure right Because it's like, well, this person is, this is a hero of mine.

53:52And now I'm about to fight him. That was weird. It's like, yeah, you should never meet your heroes and fight them. It was weird because I looked through all my fights and I remember, it's weird because I don't, maybe this is because fighting is so important to me, but I forget a lot of milestones in my life on where I was and what I was doing and who I was with and stuff like that. But if you take me to any fight, I can tell you exactly what happened in the fight week. Can you really? Yeah, exactly who was there, exactly who I spoke to, the conversations that I had, how I felt. And I can remember everything about every fight.

54:25When you walk out into the ring, right? Like, and there's a big crowd there, not during COVID time. What is that feeling like? It's crazy. So, like the way my career worked, it was really weird. So I had four fights in COVID, four UFC fights in COVID. My fifth fight, the main event of me, had the O2 in London. So I went from fighting in front of nobody to fighting in front of 22 ,000 or whatever it is in London. It was literally just as the world opened. So they opened the country and then booked the fight. So I wasn't walking around the streets freely. I was in COVID and then I was in a training camp and then I was going to fight.

55:13So I didn't really realize how to be in the public eye. at all. I never really experienced that. And what they do in the UFC is when you're in the changing rooms, they have like a TV in the changing rooms of the fight. So they show on the TV what they would show to people at home. You're seeing all the previous fights. And obviously you hear the crowd cheering and stuff. So you automatically just look at the TV. Do you know what I mean? The crowd starts roaring. You're like, oh, who's been knocked out you know me automatically look at the tv and um i had this massive roar like massive to the point where like i could feel the wall shaking in the and i was like what what like who's been knocked out really badly and i looked up at the tv and they were showing a video of me walking into the building it was fucking crazy i couldn't believe it i was like and i even asked one of the guys are they showing that on the screen like out there he's like yeah that's what they're showing so people were cheering that much just for me like walking into the building i was like no fucking way are people screaming like that just for me walking in i couldn't believe it um and then yeah you walk out and it's just insane people are just like hanging over the side to touch you you're just like yeah it's really weird it's a strange experience strange uh i can't describe it like i feel like if i was walking out like that and i didn't have to fight somebody at the end of it, I would be having the time of my life.

56:44But because I'm like walking out and then I'm aware, oh my opponent's actually waiting for me there. Like it's, you just kind of like focused on the fight, I guess. Do you know what's so amazing? It's like you're, you forget you're a fan of the sport. Like, like that's what's strange. Like you're, you're sitting in the changing room, getting ready for your fight, but you're also watching the TV, wondering what's happened. You're just like anyone else, but you're the main event. and then of course you're going to find it weird when you go up on the screen and everyone starts cheering you and it's weird when you're going out and people are dying trying to grab you because you're just Tom who started fighting or like training at the age of 10 and suddenly you're in front of 22 ,000 people fighting for the heavyweight championship like that's just crazy and that is something that I'm still learning about is like since I was 10 I've been taught by my dad and multiple other coaches on how to fight people.

57:42I know how to do that. I think I'm in a spot where I'm pretty good at it. I know how to defend myself, how to punch them, how to take them down, how to escape off the bottom, and all the stuff on how to fight. What nobody ever taught me is how to deal with big groups of people who want your attention. I'm still learning that. Really? That's still super weird to me. I've got a lot of friends who are fighters as well. of course who are super famous fighters more famous than me a lot of them but they're also regular sized people do you know what I mean like I'm very big and I'm easy you're quite easy to spot yeah very easy to spot yeah it's the height and maybe the tattoos yeah there's a lot there's a lot going on there there's a lot of things happening people will spot me out of a crowd generally so yeah they can blend in a little bit more and also there's something about there's something about fighters which is so mysterious and so exciting and so exhilarating that you want to meet them?

58:40You want to be in their presence. You want to talk to them. You want to ask them questions. Yeah, people are very nice to me though. I don't want to come across like I'm unappreciated at all. People are generally really, really super loving and nice everywhere I go. So I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it takes some getting used to. You bought us a gift, which is your belt. Well, you put it on the floor. It's not very nice. Can I get it out? Yeah, of course. yeah yeah go for it go for it Jesus Christ for anyone who's listening to this go to our YouTube and check this out can I open it up open it oh shit that's alright it's a replica anyway we'll not tell people but it's not the real one I'm not going to say that anyway it's not a replica what's good nice belt holy shit man when this gets wrapped around you yeah and you're standing in the ring and you've done your battle and this gets put around your waist and suddenly they announce that you're the heavyweight champion of the world.

59:44What is the feeling like? Relief. It's the only feeling. That's the main thing that I feel after every fight. Yeah. Just relieved. Relief that it's over. Relief that you're okay. Relief that it's not me. On the floor. Yeah. Honestly, that's like the best way I can describe when it is, yeah, just relief. That is, man, that is just heavy and everything. looks good I can't get over this do you still is it still weird or have you do you realise that you're I don't no I don't think about it often to be honest I still feel like I've got a lot more stuff to do to be honest I don't feel like I get that two things here firstly John Jones one of the greatest UFC one of the greatest athletes absolutely absolute monster yeah I'm an incredible fighter yeah right also left the UFC because of his own personal reasons and other stuff yeah then came back and complete dominoes again came heavyweight champion and then retired and didn't want to fight you which seems how do you feel where do you land on that look it is what it is everyone's got their own reasons for stuff at the time I was just desperately trying to get the fight because I wanted to get the title off him I think I think a lot of people kind of got it confused why I wanted to I was never going after Jon Jones I was going after the title simple as that I wanted to be the best in the world and I wasn't given the chance to fight Jon Jones I would have loved to have fought one of the best, but I wasn't given a chance and I don't think it'll ever happen now.

1:01:09So it is what it is. It's interesting, right? Because you speak about that fear that you get and that John Jones is a monster. Oh, he's an absolute beast, which is why I wanted to fight him. Because I want to fight the best. I want to fight the best. Yeah, I don't want to... You know, there's not really much fun in fighting guys who everyone thinks that you're going to beat. Do you know what I mean? It's not fun. It doesn't... You actually don't achieve anything from it. It's such... But I get your point, but it's such a juxtaposition, right? Because at one side, you're like, there's this fear and there's this relief, but actually you still want to fight the best.

1:01:42Well, yeah, of course I do. I want to be the best in the world. I don't want to be... You can be the best in the world, maybe not finding the best, but you want to fight the best. Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's where a lot of people kind of got that confused when I was trying to fight Jon Jones. Like, I want to fight the best guy. People are saying the best guy ever. Listen, he could absolutely kick my ass, but at least I tried. What do you think drives you forward? I'm super competitive. Super. You know, I just think I really enjoy it more than anything else. I think the goals that I actually had, I actually didn't.

1:02:12My main, main, main goal for MMA was to buy a house. That was my absolute, like, top of the top was to buy a house. That was my main thing. And then obviously, like, be investing in the world. But that kind of, like, came secondary to buying a house. That's what I really wanted to do is, like, I know people, I'm from a pretty small town outside of Manchester where everyone's working class and blue collar and all the rest of it. Some of my friends' dads and mums and dads even now, they've not paid the house off. For me to be able to do that in my 20s, that was the ultimate dream from doing something that I don't even really consider a real job.

1:02:53Do you know what I mean? So that was the goal. And then obviously being the best title and all that, that came way secondary. But for now, it's just... I don't know. I want to be proud of myself. I think I want my kids to be able to look at me and think like, yeah, that was my dad who did that. Man, I have no doubt. That's going to, if it hasn't happened already, that's going to happen. And the fact that I can't even imagine being your dad and watching you fight, having like trained you up, managed you, everything, and then seeing the success you're having. Yeah. He's, he knows what he's doing to say the least.

1:03:34Yeah. So you're going to return to fighting? Oh yeah, that's the plan. Yeah, definitely. Let's rock. Yeah, definitely. Who do you think you're going to... Well, we're going to fight the winner of, I don't know when this podcast is out, but the Cyril Ghani's fighting Alex Perra. Alex Perra, amazing champion, by the way. This is, if he wins this, even though it's an interim title, he'll be the first guy to hold a belt at three weight divisions. So he fought a middleweight, won the title, light heavyweight, won the title, and now he's moving up to heavyweight. If he can do that... He's a monster.

1:04:06He's an absolute beast. He's an absolute... One of the greats, one of the greats of the sport. He's fighting Sir Ogand, who I've just fought. So the winner of that, I'll probably fight them. When do you think there'll be timeline if you would have to go? I'd like to fight this year. Yeah, but I think it's really important that health comes first. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's got to be right for everybody. And like, I'm not rushing for nobody when it's right for me I'll like I'll do it I'll 100 % do it but it's got to be right Can we talk about The End of Game your new podcast Oh yeah You do it with your friend Charlie is that right?

1:04:46That's right Tell me what's it about what do you talk about? So like I said I've been involved in MMA since I was around 10-ish 33 now so that's a lot that's a big portion of my life so a lot a lot of that time has been spent with people who do MMA the podcast is something completely away from me this is about different successful people in different fields and it's also about like the mindset it took to get them there what fuels them the fears that they've got the anxieties that they've got you know what actually we interviewed well it was not an interview we did the podcast with different people from all different stuff from music documentary makers you know we had louis through on there he's one of my heroes by Isn't he the best?

1:05:30He's amazing. All kinds of different people in different fields who are really successful and really popular and famous and all the rest of it. It's unbelievable how similar everybody is. Unbelievable. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, everyone. I learned so much from doing the podcast that I feel like it's really, I think it's going to be really interesting for people to listen to how many similarities there are in different fields. I mean, we're going to leave a link to your show in our show description. Go and check it out. I can't wait to listen. And so can I say, this has been like a true honor.

1:06:04Like I get maybe you don't realize that and maybe you're still in this space being like, you know, why do people care so much? People care about you because you're authentic. You're down to earth. You're a British champion. And man, we fucking love you. Thank you. Appreciate it. You're unbelievable. I don't take compliments very well. No, you don't. I've noticed that. I noticed that. listen we'd like to end the conversation with eight quick fire questions you ready for this eight yeah baby one word answer so whatever you want to do what's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up when someone I love gives me a compliment I know I just said I don't take compliments very well but if someone says like you did good there I would be like thank you that makes me feel good that's my second question best compliment anyone's ever given you some I actually got one from my wife and she said that when you're around, I feel safer.

1:06:58That's the best compliment that anyone could ever give me. I'm a big softie, aren't I? I'm a big softie. But yeah. Man, I love that. I wish my wife said that about me. There's no... No, no, because I'm like, I'm awake a fair bit. Do you know what I mean? Like I travel a lot. And she said last time I came back, I said, everything's been going good. She said, yeah, everything's been going great. Yeah, yeah. I said, oh, did you miss me? She said, no, I didn't miss you because I still speak to you all the time. where she said, when you're around, I feel safer. And I was just like, that's fucking great.

1:07:28I'm keeping that one. I'm keeping that one in the locker. That's the question. If you, if you, if someone was to start a fight and you, something would happen, right? And you, and it was outside in public because you're a professional fighter. Are there issues around that? You'd be, me and Charlie speak it all the time about it. You'd be surprised how many people start fights with me. It's, it's not regular, but it's, it happens. Are they all right? Well, they think it was so long. Usually, no, it usually happens like, uh, See, the issue I've got, it's like if I'm going somewhere, if I'm with family, if I'm with kids and stuff, and someone comes over and asks for a picture, 99.9 % of the time I'll be like, yeah, absolutely.

1:08:07Just do it quick because I'm just with the family. Then we'll move on. If I'm in a bar, which isn't very often these days, and I'm with friends and stuff having a drink, and someone comes over and says, can I have a picture? I'll be like, yeah, mate, of course. Yeah, we'll do a picture. We'll do a picture. and then they say, when's your next fight then? And then I tell them when the next fight is and then they say, well, what do you think of this fight coming? It's basically, I just feel like I'm, I'm just like, mate, do you mind just, I just see it with my friends? Can I just, and people don't like that and then people will start saying, well, you fucking think you're better than everybody?

1:08:40And it just goes from there. It just goes from there. And then you spark. No, I don't spark anybody. Then I have to leave. Then I have to leave. Do you really? Can you feel, can you feel? No, no, I'm not like an angry person generally like if obviously if somebody tries to hurt me or my family after they found myself but i'm not out there looking for trouble with anybody like my demons get exercised on a regular basis in the gym i think i would absolutely shit myself if i was a burglar and i broke into your house and i woke you up i'd be like i'm so sorry whoa i don't know what i've just done here let me back out and i'll fix the window there's some crazy people out there but you got you're not getting in my house you gotta get past my dogs first before you get to me they're way more vicious what scares you most about yourself?

1:09:22Oh, that's a good question. Um, impulsive decisions. It's a common theme with a lot of people. When was the last time you cried? I wish I could cry more to be honest. Really? Yeah. Something I struggle with crying. I wish I could do it more because I always feel better. No, like sometimes if something emotional has happened, I won't cry. I'll just hold it in. I don't, I don't even hold it in purposely. I just don't cry. You just don't know that? Yeah. I wish I did more. Um, I can't remember I can't remember well one thing you should leave with this is that you should cry more it's an emotion you should explore more deeply I wish I could you know sometimes like have you watched Titanic yeah I cry at films and stuff I cried at Yellowstone recently sorry the cowboy film the cowboy series it's fantastic fantastic it's great it's great what did you cry I can't remember but I do remember but it wasn't like I wasn't proper crying.

1:10:20Do you know what I mean? You cried at Yellowstone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I wasn't like properly crying though. Okay, man, listen. I don't want to... Properly, properly cried. I'm... Crying at Yellowstone. I'm not sure. Mate, it's a great series. Highly recommended. It's the mountains. That's what you love. It's fantastic. Love it. It probably is. It's the mountains. Must be. What's something you can't let go of? Oh. Overthinking. Busy mind? Busy mind. What's your guilty pleasure? I don't... I'm not sure I've got one. Nothing. I'm happy with my pleasures. I don't feel like guilty when I do them.

1:10:53Love that. What turns you off? When people are rude to the people who are working at a restaurant. That's my one. I can't fucking stand it. That's my one. I can't stand it. That's my worst thing. When they talk it down to people, it's just don't do it. Rude to waiters, rude to people. I hate it. Absolutely hate it. You know what? We had Raymond Blanc on the show. He's a chef, right? And he saw one of his team members being rude to one of the cleaners. Yeah. and so he said you're now going to work as a cleaner for the whole week like it he was never rude again because he didn't realise how hard they worked yeah of course and he said his back it was just like I had the biggest respect for anyone who does that it was unbelievable good what turns you on um I don't know the word for it integrity is the word yes but when you're being integrity what do you say when you're being when you're what's the word what is it yeah that's it when you're being yourself staying true to yourself yeah yeah yeah I like that Yeah.

1:11:47When you're being authentic self, which I feel like, Tom, you can't be anything but yourself. I don't know. I try to, but I also like, um, something that I'm trying to get better at is like good communication skills in terms of, um, if something's working, tell somebody that it's working. If it's not, tell them it's not. We're taking a compliment. You should start there. Yeah. I don't like them. Don't like them. What do you like most about yourself? It's going to be hard for me. Uh, I don't know. Here we go. a good northern lad telling what they most like about themselves great question what do I like disassociate yourself just do it probably yeah I'm going to try I think I'm quite happy with whatever's going on do you know what I mean like whatever we're doing I'll try and enjoy it to the fullest last one snog marry avoid what Conor McGregor John Jones Dana White oh my god I'm not snogging marry avoid I'll avoid all of them I don't want to all of them yeah Yeah.

1:12:46So you're going to snog John Jones? None of them. You're going to marry Dana White. I'm going to avoid all of them. I don't want to be close to any of them. Tom Astro, you're fucking great company, my friend. Thank you so much. Thank you, mate. Unbelievable. Man, are you kidding me? That was unbelievable, dude. Good stuff.

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