VIVIAN TU: Your Rich BFF Shares Money Advice You Need To Hear | FOUNDERS FRIDAY

0:00How do you have an open conversation about finances with your partner? 99 % of domestic violence cases include financial abuse. How do you negotiate a higher salary? Unbelievably, they just gave me a raise at this. I'm like, great, that's great information for me to have, because guess what I'm asking for next year? Explain the link between birth rates falling and people's finances. Families that otherwise would have had four kids are now having two. Families that were having two are now having one. Okay, one thing people waste money on without realizing. You are allowed to want to spend money.

0:30but it better spark joy. Don't make mindless purchases just because of convenience, just because you think you should have it, just because you want to pass the time. Hey guys, welcome back to Founders Friday. Now today I'm joined by the brilliant Vivian 2, better known to millions online as your rich BFF. Okay, so Vivian started her career on Wall Street before turning her financial expertise into one of the most followed personal finance platforms in the world. Okay, she hosts the Net Worth and Chill podcast, is the author of the best-selling book Rich AF, and her mission is simple, to make money advice accessible to young people.

1:07So if you're a young person, this is for you. To anyone dreaming of leaving their corporate career behind and building a business of their own. And she shared so much great advice from what we should stop wasting our money on, what she calls the dollar dribble, to how to confidently ask for a pay rise and actually get it. Okay. And we're having open conversations about money with our partners, friends, and colleagues can change our lives. So here it is. It's enough from me. You're going to love this one. It's Founders Friday with Vivian Tu.

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3:37Vin, thank you for coming on the podcast Of course I'm super excited for this Because I think so many of our audience are going to be I mean the team here today are so excited They have so many questions they've fired in But before we get into that I want to understand who you are Yeah, let's do it Because I think we're going to talk about a lot of things That need a lot of trust, right? And when it comes to finances You kind of have to trust the person you're talking to Or speaking to about it So can you explain to me and the audience who you are? Yeah um hello everybody my name is vivian too otherwise known online as your rich bff i teach the next generation how to better budget save spend and invest their money um my ethos is that i believe everybody should feel confident about their finances and that it's not information that should be gatekept behind a paywall or behind the walls of a university that is a perfect answer that is that is a perfect answer and also times um awarded you 100 you in the 100 times top creators right yeah which is i mean yeah no big deal by the way when that comes through is it like an email how does it come yeah uh actually funny enough um it was an email yeah uh but it came like my they contacted my pr team yeah and my pr team was like hey viv like give us a quick call and I was like, hey, can't call you.

4:57On set, busy, what's up? And they're like, we'll just send the email. And so I think my team wanted to like be like, congratulations. And I was like, hey, can't talk right now. Bye. I'm busy. Yeah. So they sent the email, obviously. So exciting. It's such an honor. And I went to the event, like the kickoff event that they had for it. And it's so funny because I'm there, like jaw on the floor, looking at all of these other people that I admire and for them to be able to come up to me and be like, oh, I love your content. I'm like, you know who I am. Yeah, but your content is so accessible and you make something which is unaccessible accessible and you open doors for people and you change lives.

5:34Thank you. You really do, honestly. And I think money is so important. It's probably fundamentally the most important thing in life, really. Yeah. It is. But it's the last thing we think about. Money isn't everything, but everything is money. Yeah. Because if you want to have a happy life, unfortunately, unless you've got the resources to live off the grid and make your own food and do all that, you need money. 100%. 100%. Why do we lack so much knowledge around finances? Can I give you my tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist explanation? Because you need people to do the dirty jobs. You really think that's what it is?

6:17I do. Just hear me out. Okay. So if you knew better, if you understood how money worked, if you understood financial systems, would you consider taking a job that pays you very little, that provides you with very few benefits, very few hours off to actually spend with your family, to enjoy of your own? Would you continue to work paycheck to paycheck? Would you continue to spend your money in a consumerism cycle so that you can never get ahead? Of course not. Nobody wants that. Think about every rich person on earth, right? They're investing. They are making certain decisions with their money. The folks who are making poor decisions, well, they don't stay rich for very long.

6:59We've seen celebrities go bankrupt, right? We've seen it. But when we teach everybody how the system works, they make better decisions. And what happens when they make better decisions? There's nobody there to flip burgers. There's nobody there to, I don't know if this is a thing here, but to pump your gas, there's nobody to pick up the garbage. They don't necessarily want to do those jobs. Instead, they say, I'm going to own the waste management company. I'm going to own the restaurant franchise. I'm going to own stocks and in this country, shares. I'm going to own bonds. I'm going to own property.

7:41Because at the end of the day, I truly believe if we know better, we make better choices. And the consumerism flywheel cannot afford for the vast majority of people to make smarter choices. Wow. I think there's truth in that. It's unfortunate. It is unfortunate because it definitely feels like it feels complicated when actually it's not that complicated. But people make it complicated because therefore then people don't want to learn about it. They feel like, OK, I don't want to do that. The big thing in the UK, though, that I find is that in America, there feels like this great way of talking about finances.

8:17You're not scared to talk about finance and success in this place. But in Britain, we are. In UK, people don't like talking about it. I think in the US, we are too. it's only recently become less taboo to do so. Think about in the 90s and the 2000s, people were so offended when Madonna came out in a very scantily clad outfit or, you know, we had people who would reference sex and partying and drugs in their rock and roll music. And it was so, so taboo. Over the years, all of those things have become less taboo. We are more comfortable talking about sex. We literally have shows like Temptation Island, Love Island, all of these things.

9:03We have, you know, pop stars, rock stars, rappers rapping about getting money, maybe doing some illegal stuff. And like all of this, it's all totally on the table now. It's totally fair game. But it still feels like the two areas where we get a little shy, maybe around dinner table conversation, are money and politics. And with politics, if I'm honest, that's actually getting less and less taboo now, too. People are more willing to accost their uncle. They are more willing to bring up a debate. And I think over time, money will also become a conversation that is easier, not because we are getting more comfortable with it, but out of a place of necessity.

9:47when the cost of living is what it is, this conversation will come to a head. People's ability to live their normal lives and pretend like nothing is wrong comes to a head. Why do we think it is taboo though? Why is it talking about finances taboo? Because it's so important. It runs everything. Is it because it feels like a status thing? Yes, but also because we often tie money to our moral positioning. Yeah. So when you are very wealthy, you are successful, you're put on a pedestal of you're hardworking, you're honest, you're trustworthy. None of those things may be true, by the way. But we go ahead and ascribe those positive traits to someone who has succeeded.

10:36Whereas if you are not wealthy, you're not doing well, you are at a career that is oftentimes considered service industry or lower wage, people point fingers and say, look at this person. They're so irresponsible. They are putting these charges that they can't afford on a credit card. Heaven forbid a single mom wants to feed her children. The way we talk about people who have money and the way we talk about people who don't is vastly different. When people who have a lot of money borrow money, we call it leverage. We put them on the covers of magazines. And when people who are not very well-to-do borrow money, we call it debt and we shame them.

11:15I've never thought of it like that. It's just PR. It's just marketing. How you spin it. It totally is. I've never thought of it that way. What was your family situation growing up? Did you grow up wealthy? We were probably lower to upper middle class. And that changed as I got older. my parents arrived to America in their early 20s with very little money two suitcases and a dream and ultimately they were able to build a life that they're now very proud of I'm very proud of them for but it's not like there was so much extra to go around as I was a little kid were you aware of that? I think I was aware of it because of the way that my parents spoke about money.

12:02There were not conversations of grow your power, grow your wealth, but it was like, we need to budget. We need to save. Money needs to be used on a knife's edge. My dad used to say this Chinese phrase of, and it literally translates to money needs to be used on the knife's edge because they were so frugal. And ultimately, that really inured to their benefit because we live so far below our means. I think there was a turning point. I would say end of middle school, early high school, my mom ended up getting a consulting job that took her out to California. We were living in Maryland at the time.

12:41And her pay increased by quite a lot. And even when her pay increased by quite a lot, we still lived the way we were living. But my parents started meaningfully putting money away for me to go to college or as you guys call it, uni. And I am someone who has the absolute great fortune of having graduated from university with no debt. Wow. I got to start life at zero. How much is a typical person going to college in the States? The college that I went to when I went was about a quarter of a million dollars. Get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. $250 ,000. Yeah. That's the debt that you come out with. Correct.

13:22If you if you can't afford to pay for any of it. Now, I was also very lucky. My parents money didn't cover everything, but I got merit scholarships. I got private scholarships. But this is all to say their frugality, their living so far below their means provided me that golden ticket to adulthood that most people don't get. I remember thinking there were families in the neighborhood that I grew up in and they drove the really fancy cars, the Mercedes. They had a much bigger house than us. The mom would always bring in snacks for the parent, teacher, PTA, whatever. My mom could never do any of that stuff.

14:05She was working. My parents both had to work to make the numbers math. and I always felt like we were so much worse off I remember one of my girlfriends who was you know in one of those situations she drove me home one day and we were talking about college and she was like oh well I can't afford to go to the school that I want to go to and I was like very confused by that because her family had a bigger home a nicer car all of these things and she was like yeah but like we're in debt up to our eyeballs and she had to go to a school that she was less excited about because that's what they could afford.

14:40And I think that just made me acutely aware that like my family's values were different than other people's families. So you left university and you went to JP Morgan. Yes. What was that experience like for you? Because I imagine with you, Viv, and your parents are like, we're doing this. So you go to a place where you can earn the most money. I want to be very clear as the daughter, only daughter, by the way, no pressure of two Chinese immigrant parents. I had three job options. They were like, it's like a, you guys don't have, It's like a Pret. Like you go to a Pret and they're like, you pick two.

15:10Like you get to have two, like half a sandwich and half a soup. You pick, you had three options. It was, you got to be an attorney. Okay. Are they called like barristers here? Yeah, like a barriser lawyer. You could be a doctor or you could be an engineer. Those were your three options. That was the three options. Okay. Luckily for me, finance kind of cropped up as this nice bonus fourth option, which was high prestige, high pay, and provided me the opportunity to go live in a really cool city. People are always going to need legal representation. People are always going to need somebody to fix them when they're sick.

15:47And people are always going to need people to do the science-y stuff, like fix stuff. And bring you to the mentality of your parents because your parents are trying to give you the best opportunity in life because that's their experience, right? Their experience that life is tough, life is hard. So we want to give our kids or you the best opportunity. And so that's what we're going to push you towards. Correct. And that's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure, but you know what? You glad it happened. I am someone who thrives under pressure. I want to be entirely clear. I woke up this morning well, well before the car came to get me for this interview.

16:21I sat in bed and scrolled on phone until I knew that I was going to have to rush. And then I got up and I started my day. I started showering with like 30 minutes before the car was arriving. I just thrive under pressure. I was not. I love that attitude. I like even like getting ready in my early 20s to like go meet girlfriends out for a drink. My friends came to the conclusion. They're like, actually, it doesn't take Vivian a very long time to get ready. She just chooses to get ready like 20 minutes after she should have started. Because the pressure thrills you. The pressure. It's a thrill. It is a thrill.

16:54Well, I ultimately end up deciding on this job because it provides all those things. High prestige, high pay. I get to go to a cool city. Great. I think that was probably one of the proudest days of my parents' life when I told them I got that job. I called my mom. I'm in tears. She is so happy for me. And it's not even a job. I got the internship. Okay? Because you got to intern the summer prior. And the funniest thing is they hire significantly more interns than they have full-time roles for. So three young people, it was me and two men, join the desk. And halfway through the summer, it's clear that I'm a good culture fit and the two of them are not.

17:40So they get rotated away to Narnia. I don't even know where they sent them. And two new men from other desks get rotated in. by the end of the summer five people sat in that seat i was the only person to get a job if that tells you how cutthroat that environment is you know it's eat or be eaten like the guy sitting next to you is not your little friend you are fighting for one seat so it's musical chairs wow how quick are you and so i get the job i start my life in new york city it's glittering Just kidding. No, I'm making like$80 ,000 a year and my rent is like$1 ,800. After taxes, I had enough.

18:23One of my paychecks every month went to rent. And then the other paycheck had to stretch me the entire month. I was also financially irresponsible. I was 22. All of my money went to tequila. But$80 ,000 is a lot for a starting salary, right? Yeah, it is. It's a lot. What is that? 50 ,000 pounds? But keep in mind, I am also living in one of the most expensive places on earth. And it's not like I can get an apartment in Bushwick, which is far, far Brooklyn. I have to be at the office at 545 in the morning. So I had to make sure that my apartment was close enough to the office that I wasn't eating up 30 minutes in the morning on a commute.

19:04It's so funny. They would actually cover your car into the office in the morning because I would get in before the sun would come out. And it was a legal liability. for the bank. Like if I got hurt or like attacked on the subway. So like I am getting there before the sun comes out. And during the winter, I'm leaving after the sun has come down. So like I had a vitamin D deficiency. I had to start taking the vitamin D pills because I didn't see the sun. Did you enjoy it? You know what's so crazy after describing it like literally so badly? Yeah, I did. But you enjoyed the pressure of it or it was everything you used?

19:38I thrived on the pressure of it. I think there is something to be said. And there's a lot of different seats on Wall Street. Some are more well-suited for people who are slower, more cerebral thinkers. I'm not smart and I just move quickly. So I worked on the equities desk, which is what people know as stock jocks. And I make that joke, but it's a very different skill set. You are trying to make the best decision possible with limited information, and you get about three seconds to make each decision. And the faster you make it, the better, because the market is ticking. Every second that goes by, prices are changing.

20:20So if you hesitate, you've now probably messed up a trade for somebody. Can I ask you, so speaking of, because I don't want to leave that student bit there, right? Because a lot of students are going to be listening to this because they love you, right? Yeah. For students who don't have the luxury of scholarships or savings, how can they budget and make college or uni work for them financially? Well, first and foremost, I would say you have to pick a major or a course of study that you know is going to earn back your debt. So you don't have the luxury. But that limits you. Sucks. Like, not all of us are dealt, like, two aces.

20:55Sometimes you're dealt a really crappy hand. And you have to make a decision of what do I want to do to make this work? If you don't come from a financial situation that is going to provide for you long term, you are going to need to provide for yourself. And so think about careers that are actually going to pay you what you want to get paid. I think it's really also important to talk about ownership. Owning is how you make money. Working does not make you money because you can only work probably max 14 to 16 hours a day before your body is out. You are limited by your body. You are limited by your brain.

21:35And as a human being, you are limited by the amount of sleep and rest and food that you need to consume and all of this. Right. You have to go to the bathroom. Fine. You only have so many hours in a day. Your money, your ownership can work for you 24-7, no lunch break, no holiday vacations. if your money is in the stock market, if your money is earning you money because you own real estate that is cash flow positive, that is earning you money. If you run a business that you own, you can make money from the actual ownership of the system that scales, that doesn't require you. Okay. So if we go to you then, so fine, when you, you weren't, so you were earning$80 ,000, is that's you earning your starting salary.

22:21If you could go back to your younger self then you were 22 years old, how would you have broken down that salary? What would you have done differently with it?

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24:28I mean... And this is related to someone, right, who's just gone into their first job, and perhaps they've been given their first paycheck. They're like, okay, what do I do with this? I've got to pay my rent. How would you break it down? Where do we begin? So I would say I did a pretty decent job in terms of my largest expense, which was housing. That was pretty bare bones versus what some of my other peers were spending. But I will say I spent a lot of money going out. Which is not a bad thing, right? Because you're connecting. It's not. Well, we'll see. I feel like I was just getting really drunk in the West Village, a neighborhood that I certainly could not afford to live in.

25:05But I think I spent a lot of money going out. And naturally, prior to going out, you have to make sure you look good enough to go out. And that meant I was buying a lot of stuff. Ask me if I own any of it today. It doesn't fit. The outfits don't fit. The jewelry has tarnished. None of it. I can't remember any of it. But I spent a whole hell of a lot of money on it. And I think I could have been smarter about prioritizing where my budget went. Because ultimately, that probably would have been better used on convenience services and experiences versus stuff. Because I was trying to buy that designer bag to impress the other cool girls.

25:56Yeah. They didn't care. but like I was probably you know not spending as much as I should have on eating healthy nutritious food it's crazy though because I looked great at the time because I was like I would go home and I would eat a handful of pistachios and just go to sleep do you know that there's a there's a great quote which is never as a generation we um wanted so much but needed so little yeah and it's so good because we do we buy all this stuff that actually we don't need we grow out of it exactly you bought all the stuff where is it now you don't have it so why am i buying all that stuff like why am i worried about whether or not my credit card is going to overdraft but i have all this stuff and i'm eating pistachios for dinner like that's that just tells me that at the time my priorities were so out of whack do you think that's the biggest mistake as the younger generation make they're spending the money in the wrong places yeah 100 100 i listen i don't want to blame the younger generation.

26:52I think we should also call out the stats. It's harder now for us and the people younger than us than it was for our parents, right? Totally. Like the cost of housing, skyrocketed. Cost of living, groceries, basic transportation, skyrocketed. Wages stagnated. So you're telling me a job that paid, I don't know, 50 ,000 pounds a year when Papa did it, and now pays 53 ,000 pounds a year. Oh, but have you seen the cost of a tube of toothpaste at a Sainsbury's? I would because I went yesterday and I was shocked. Why is that toothpaste$4? The wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. You can no longer just have one full-time job and make ends meet comfortably for most people.

27:46That sucks. because whether it's the American dream or the UK dream, whatever, like the dream was always this. We were made a promise. If you work hard in school, if you do well, if you go to uni, if you get a good job, you will have enough money every year to make all your ends meet, go on one to two good vacations with your loved one, loved ones. you should be able to afford a family and the cycle continues. And at some point you will be able to own a little piece of this earth of your own. Okay. Well, young people don't feel like they can own houses. They can't afford them. They can barely feel like they can afford cars.

28:31They certainly are having children at a much lower rate. The birth rate has declined because guess what? I would rather go on vacation than have a kid. But like we're making people choose and then shocked when they don't make the choice that historically has been made. Explain the link between birth rates falling and people's finances. Yeah. Okay. Babies are super expensive and they need specialized food for a very long time, specialized care, not to mention before they get into the school system, you either have to watch them. So either historically mom has to take a step back from her career or you have to pay someone.

29:13And that's a lot of money. And so when we think about all of the ongoing costs and the fact that our world very literally is on fire, a lot of the next generation is saying, I don't want that burden. Yes. Do I think a child will likely be a positive add to my life? Maybe, but I can barely make ends meet as it is right now for me. I can barely take care of myself. Why would I add one more cost? I understand. That's why the average family size is also shrinking. Not to say that some people are just choosing not to have children, but families that otherwise would have had four kids are now having two.

29:53Families that were having two are now having one. Can I ask a personal question? And feel free not to answer, but where are you on this? So my husband and I, two years ago actually froze embryos together because I'm 32 now. I recognize that like time is not particularly on my side. Like I am very much still in the climbing phase of my career. I feel really proud of what I've built. My husband is very, very proud of the career he's built. We both like working. And if a fairy godmother came tomorrow and like the stork dropped a baby in my arms, I don't even know what I would do. I'm traveling every week right now.

30:35And that's crazy. So I'm not at a position right now to have children. However, I did think it was important for me to get an insurance policy on potentially being able to have them because I want to have that option. But say I want to have that option at 38, 42, my body may betray me. And so I wanted to have that insurance policy. I'm very, very lucky. We were able to afford to do it when I was 30, meaning I got a great egg count. We ended up having a great embryo count. We look at the number of healthy embryos we got and we joke like we could start a basketball team. I am not tall enough for that, by the way.

31:17No one would hire my children to play basketball. But it is to say that I want to have the option. I think my life could be fulfilled without children, but I think it could be meaningfully improved with them as well. And so I just want to have the option. If everything works out, I'd love to have one or two. How long have you been with your husband for? We just passed nine years together. And in June, we have been married for two. Let's go. Yeah. Are you open with your finances? Oh, painfully open. Really? Painfully open because 30 days into dating this random man, I actually moved from my midtown, uptown apartment into a beautiful walk up like Soho apartment with my girl roommate.

32:07And the first weekend we're supposed to be in this apartment, I was actually in Chicago for an alumni weekend event. And she calls me and she goes, hey, when you get back, we have to have a conversation. I'm like, tell me now because you've just ruined my weekend. She goes, no, no, no. I have to talk to you in person. I'm like, okay, whatever. I get back. She sits me down. She goes, the first night I slept in this apartment alone at midnight, I was on my phone, just scrolling, whatever. She goes, I put my phone away. I'm ready to go to bed. I go to the bathroom. I flick on the lights to go. And I see a thousand little things scurry away.

32:40We had rented an apartment that was infested with German cockroaches. Why is it relevant that they're German cockroaches? Because they breed at 10x the speed as an American cockroach. So if you see one, go ahead and assume you have an infestation. And so we ended up packing overnight bags. She was dating somebody at the time. I was dating my now husband and we moved into our boyfriend's apartments. And 30 days in, I started living with this man, random stranger. Wow. And after about three weeks, I had to sit my now husband down and tell him, I don't have any money to pay you for living here. I can barely afford to pay for dinner.

33:24I don't know if I'm going to be able to afford the vacation we're currently planning. And, oh, by the way, I need to use the last of my savings to break our lease. It's very honest. I was so humiliated. like ooh the weird roach girl like nobody wants to be weird cockroach girl like that's so gross he was so kind and he said listen this is a classic New York thing it happens to the best of us like it's not your fault since you're sharing because I told him I was like this is how much money I have this is what I make this is what I don't have and this is what I'm about to spend to break my lease but that is so open that is not common in most relationships like What was I supposed to do?

34:08I was homeless. I was living at his apartment out of a weekender bag. And he was like, since you've shared that, I just want to let you know, this is what I make. This is the bonus I'm about to get. So don't worry about it. Well, so you think being open in relationships about finances is really important? Yeah. Not 30 days in. I don't recommend. Not 30 days in. That was a fluke. Don't do that. I'm very open with my wife. She knows what I have. She knows what I earn. I know what she has. I know what she earns. We don't have a joint account, but we're thinking about opening a joint account because we're doing it that way.

34:41What is your take? Break it down for me. How do you have an open conversation about finances with your partner? And why should you do that? Okay. I'll give you a really nasty stat. 99 % of domestic violence cases include financial abuse. I have had women DM me and say, I want to just say thank you because of the content you've made. I was able to save enough money to leave. Doesn't that just break your heart? Like, what do I say to that? You can't. But I don't want any woman to ever be in that situation. And I think, by the way, men have, I don't know who your publicist is. Your publicist is doing a way better job than the women's publicist.

35:22Because the women's PR team has let us get brainwashed. They're saying all these things about us in the streets. They're saying we are shopaholics. We love avocado toast. I don't even like avocados. that we spend our money on lattes every single day, that we're frivolous, all of this stuff. They've said all, they've, you know, tarnished our name in the streets. I ask you this, do you not also drink coffee? I ask you this, do you not also spend money on sporting events, getting a drink at the pub, going to soccer matches, getting to buy the new fangled PS5 video game? Like, that's expensive. And it's way more expensive than my lip gloss Come on.

36:06My lip gloss was$12. Like, calm down. And so if you hear something enough times, you start to believe it. And if we've told women, you're bad with money, you're irresponsible, you're an overspender, naturally, they're going to think, ah, I'm too dumb and helpless to do this myself. So they let their fathers help them. And then it's their husbands. And one day it'll be their sons. But I beg every woman who's listening to this, I need you to have financial autonomy. You need to have your own money. I love that you and your wife have your own bank accounts. Do I think a joint account would help make things easier to maybe pay your mortgage or utilities or groceries or ultimately your kid's daycare bill?

36:53Sure. Great. But I also think that she needs to have her own bank account. And so do you. because that's how my husband and I do it. Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, that's a better way of doing it. Because we pay our mortgage out of our joint account. We pay the utility bill, like, you know, Wi-Fi, like heating, all that. Joint account. But he's allowed to go for a round of golf. That's a couple hundred bucks, I think. I go and get my nails done or my lashes done or drinks with girlfriends. I'm not going to tell you what that costs. That's none of your business. But I don't ever want to be told that I can't do something with money that I've earned.

37:36My money is his money and his money is my money and our money is our money. But I should be allowed to make decisions unbound by somebody else because I work hard and I deserve it. And so I encourage everybody to have financial autonomy no matter who you are. And you need to be leaned in in your financial situation. when you are going over the family finances, sit down at the table with a chair. Don't just think somebody else is going to handle it for you. Because even in a best case scenario, I've had people message me, my husband of 45 years just passed away. I don't even know what the passwords to our bank account is.

38:12This woman had a thoughtful, loving, faithful husband for 45 years and she still ended up in a financial wreck. That could be you. I think that's really important advice that sit down, have a conversation about it because no one's going to do it for you. Nobody. And for some reason we think someone is. It's going to magically happen and it actually doesn't. And it is an awkward conversation, but you need to talk about the mortgage. You need to talk about the bills. You need to talk about the Wi-Fi. You need to talk about, I don't know, the cleaning, whatever it is. You need to talk about how we fix that window.

38:42Yeah. And let's do it as a team together. Okay, how can you find out whether the person you're dating is good with money? Oof. You got to ask the hard questions. Like what? But also, you need to look out for the red flags, okay? So what are the red flags? I think at the end of the day, what you need to determine with your partner is, do they value a dollar the same way you do? I am a saver. My husband is a spender. But we value a dollar the same way in that we would rather spend on big experiences, lavish vacations. We don't really spend a ton on retail. We don't really spend a ton on fancy transportation.

39:23We don't own a car. When I call an Uber, I call the regular one, not the executive one. Like, we value a dollar the same way. If you and I are married and you are dead set on saving for a home and I'm dead set at being at Selfridges every weekend, you are going to resent me eventually. Because I have blown our house budget on coats. What is your thoughts on buying a house? I think it can be a part of your financial picture if it's really important to you. Is it necessarily always a genius financial move? No. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's not. It also depends on your lifestyle. So people ask me this question all the time.

40:05They're like, do I have to buy a house? Do I have to buy a house? Do you want a house? because to make the closing costs and the fixed costs make sense, you have to be in that home for five to seven years. Are you expanding your family in the next five to seven years? Because that three-bedroom apartment or that three-bedroom condo may not work if you pop out twins because one of those bedrooms is now being used as a home office and now you don't have enough room. So we're about to get another place. You're going to just take an L on that? or oh you are in your late 20s are you gonna buy a home in the major metro that you currently live in oh but by the way you just got an incredible job opportunity at work and now you get to relocate to london what are you doing with that house that's a burden if you have any sort of uncertainty in your life if you have any desire to be mobile i wouldn't buy but if you're ready to put down roots, if things are generally pretty settled in your life, it might be time to consider.

41:05It's great advice because I think sometimes what happens is we have this narrative that we need to buy a house. So we're just stuck in what our parents were doing and our parents say to us. Yeah, houses were also$4. Correct. It's crazy, right? Yeah. And people don't like the idea of renting because they think they're wasting money. I think renting is a really smart move sometimes. Yeah. When you're renting, the apartment or wherever you're renting is someone else's problem. If I was a young 20-year-old, right, sitting here talking to you right now, what would you say to them about focusing on their finances?

41:35What advice would you give? One, I need you to just, like, talk to your friends about money. Like, it is so important. I think we oftentimes hold that conversation back at fear of being judged. If the number we say is too big, it feels like we're bragging. if the number we put out is too small, it feels like, oh, pity, pity, you know? But I've actually found that talking about numbers with your close friends is essentially a way to lift all ships. At my second job at BuzzFeed, I had a girlfriend at work. She was my best friend at work. She was at my wedding. Like we were very close. And she was a couple of years older than me and we had the same job and she sat next to me.

42:22And it was right before my end of year review. And so I was just so curious. And I'm like, okay, Allison, come with me to the bathroom. So I drag her into the bathroom. I make her go into the big handicap stall with me. And I'm like, hey, Allison, tell me how much money you make. And she goes, what? And I'm like, just tell me. I'm about to go in for my end of year review and I want to ask for more money, but I don't know what's realistic. She tells me what she makes. And she's like, but you didn't hear that from me. And I'm like, heard, understand. I go into my end of year review and I say, look at all of these things that I've accomplished.

42:57A raise of XYZ, I said how much she makes, would be commensurate because she was making more than me at the time. She was older than me, had more experience. I end up getting this raise. I'm like, thank you so much. I leave. I'm like, Allison, we need to go to the bathroom. I drag her into the bathroom. We go into the hand decap skull. I'm like, I just want to let you know they're giving me that. I now make the same amount that you make, but you're five years older than me. So just so you know, you didn't hear it from me. We leave the bathroom. She goes in for her end of year review. She goes, these are all of my accomplishments for the year.

43:29A raise of XYZ would be commensurate. And now she's asking for more money because she knows that I'm making what she's making. She gets it. She comes back to the desk. She goes, Vivian, I think we need to go to the bathroom. We've spent the entire day now in this handicap stall. We go to the bathroom. She goes, unbelievably, Probably they just gave me a raise of this. I'm like, great. That's great information for me to have because guess what I'm asking for next year? Our ability to share information with each other allowed me to have a realistic number to ask for. So I wasn't going crazy, but it was a reasonable number for me to expect.

44:04It made us smarter and more effective negotiators. So I beg you, in your 20s, talk to your friends about money. know what they're making, know what they're paying on rent. Were they able to get some sort of subsidy because the radiator turned off for three days or something didn't happen, or maybe the lock wasn't working? How did they get that money back? That is great advice. There's two things I want to pick out there, right? Which is, how do you stop comparing yourself to your friends financially first? Because you're right, it is. Too high, you feel like you're bragging, and too low, you feel like you're embarrassed for some reason.

44:39How do you stop that comparison? I think it's just being honest. If you are a analyst at a nonprofit and I'm working down with the suits in Canary Wharf, we're not making the same amount of money. But you might be able to take a page out of my playbook of how to negotiate effectively. I might be able to think a little bit about, oh, hey, is there an opportunity for, you know, somebody at your company to come and do a presentation at my office? By the way, that'll help you with your visibility. Like we can help each other. Do you know what? That's such, it's honestly such great advice being more open about those situations.

45:22You then are leveraged. You understand you have, you know, history is our playbook for the future, right? So once you know more knowledge, then you can argue your case more, which brings on to my next thing is when you're in a room with your boss, how do you negotiate a higher salary? You come with receipts. People think that the negotiation happens in that one meeting, in that one room. Absolutely not. That's the show. You got to prepare for the show. You got to practice. You got to rehearse. So end of year raises and promotions happen in the summer. That's where you're going to sit your manager down and say, hey, five, six months of the year have already happened.

45:58These are the three amazing things that I've already accomplished. I am so, so excited for the rest of the year. These are my goals. In addition to these goals, what other benchmarks or milestones would I need to hit to be in a good place to get this XYZ? Whether it's a promotion, whether it's a raise, whether it's, you know, if you're in sales, more territories, more opportunities, whatever. You're going to, whatever you're asking for. Your manager is going to tell you, you need to be doing this. You need to be doing that. You need to be doing this. Now you have a list. Take those things over the next six months.

46:31You crush it by the way. Like you still have to crush it. Like you can't do all these things and suck. If you're in a performance improvement plan, this is not for you, but you crush it. Then during the fall, you are going to set another meeting. So I'm talking like October and then you're going to set another meeting for early December. If your company, by the way, doesn't operate on their fiscal year is not the same calendar year, you can change the months. But assume it's a January to December. October, you're like, hey, I'm tracking against the metrics and the goals that you shared with me.

47:03I just want to let you know, I still am very, very much looking forward towards getting this role, or I'm still very much looking forward towards receiving a raise of XYZ. Make it very clear what you want. And then when it comes to December, that's the grand finale. That's the actual time to put on the show. You have now aggregated all of your wins from the year. And I encourage people to make a brag book. It's just a folder in your email. Anytime someone emails you and is like, oh, we couldn't have done this without you or you're so amazing, you're so smart, whatever, you forward all of those emails.

47:40not you looking at your employees. I know, I know. It's such great advice. It is such great advice. You forward all of those emails or you take screenshots of your accomplishments. You put them into this folder and you just do like brag book 2026. And the reason why I'm looking at these guys is because honestly, that is exactly, that's 100 % what people should do. And I think the big thing is, is that negotiation starts at the beginning of the year. People think it starts when you walk into the room. It doesn't, it started before. And doing everything like that. And I think the mistake some people make is that everyone wants pay rises.

48:15Everyone wants to be paid more. But you have to back it up. And because when you back it up, this is what actually happens. HR, for most corporations, HR sometime in November, December, will go to your boss and be like, all right, you've got$40 ,000 for the whole team. Whole team. So maybe there's like 10 people on this team. and your boss then has to decide which mouths to feed. Some managers who are bad managers will just be like, okay, well, that's easy. Everybody gets$4 ,000. That's how you lose your top talent. Unfortunately, if you want to retain the best talent, you've got to feed the rich and starve the poor.

48:53That's brutal. It's brutal. Your best performers need to get paid. You got to keep them. And the people who are at the bottom 10%, it might be time to have a conversation of letting them know that they're not going to be around for much longer. it sucks but like if you are a top performer imagine if you and the laziest can i say laziest sack of shit on your team got paid the same amount i'd be mad then why am i working so hard it disincentivizes your top players is that is that how you work at your company yeah if i'm honest with you like we now have a very like higher slow fire fast motto if within the first two months it's not a vibe fit if i don't think you're going to be able to get there you're gone But the people who have worked for me for years, I think it would be very, very hard for another manager to steal them because I pay well above market.

49:46I don't mind paying more if you're doing more. If you are operating at a level above, you're going to get paid every year. Just go ahead and know I'm going to take care of you because I don't want you to leave. I'm going to make it so hard for you to leave because you have gotten accustomed to a much nicer lifestyle than you would have doing the same job at anywhere else. Okay, a thousand pounds lands in your account. Yep. What are you doing with it? Okay, so first and foremost, I'm setting some of it aside for my emergency fund. I want to make sure that I have three to six months of living expenses saved aside as an emergency fund.

50:20This is important because if you don't have this and then something pops up, you could end up in a worse spot than you currently are in. So I'm putting some of this into my emergency fund. I would focus on putting some of it into paying down any sort of high interest rate debt So that's anything above what your local market typically returns on average every single year. So you can't make more. If you have a loan that charges you 12 % a year and the stock market in your region only returns 8%, you can't make more investing that money, so you've got to pay the debt down first. Then if I still have money left over, I would put that money towards an investment.

51:01The vast majority of people cannot afford to retire ever if they do not invest. You will never save your way there. Okay, one thing people waste money on without realizing. I think there is value in making small purchases that bring you joy. So if getting that latte in the morning is the reason you are getting out of bed, it sparks joy, great, do it, no problem. But I see so many people who dollar dribble who will be like, oh yeah like I don't really need this little thing but I'm going to purchase it out of convenience so for example you're at a Marks and Spencer and you are doing your weekly shop or whatever and then you're like ah yeah like I don't know if I have like the fizzy pigtails at home so I'm just gonna get one more bag okay great then you don't eat the fizzy pigtails they go stale they get hard.

51:54Great. The next time you're at the store, you're like, oh, okay, well, maybe I'll just get this magazine because I'll read it on the tube. Great. You didn't read the magazine. Now you've wasted what? The magazine money. Great. Now you're walking down the street. You walk by a super drug and you're like, oh, yeah, okay, cool. I could probably use a new blush. you get a blush turns out you didn't really do the research it's not your color looks bad on your face you don't use it these little purchases that did not actually spark any real joy for you are slowly just chipping away at these little things these are very different purchases than a premeditated let me go into the store and get this coffee that is delicious it is better than the one I can make at home.

52:48And I am actually choosing to trade my money for this spark of joy. Don't spend mindlessly. When you purchase, I want you to love it. I want you to feel happy. You are allowed to spend money. Like, I can't believe that's a crazy thing I have to say out loud, but like you are allowed to want to spend money, but it better spark joy. Don't make mindless purchases just because of convenience, just because you think you should have it, just because you want to pass the time. Hi, who here loves when their nails are perfectly done? Me, I'm Sarah Gibson Tuttle, and I started Olive in June because let's be real, we all deserve to have gorgeous nails, but who wants to spend a fortune or half their day at the salon?

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54:46Yeah, I look after the pennies and the pounds I look after themselves, right? 100%. What does a rich life actually mean to you? I think a rich life is not having to do anything, but getting to do things. So I'm not there yet. I still have to do things. And if I'm honest, I would guess you are an incredibly successful person, but you still have to do some things. There will come a day where we don't have to do things. We get to do things. We only say yes to what really sparks joy. We only say yes to opportunities that add value to our lives. I have to do things because I am my parents' retirement plan.

55:27I have to do things because I haven't fully built out my family and I don't know what that's going to look like and what it's going to cost. But at some point, I will have full freedom over my time, over my life, and over my calendar. And I think that's really rich. You know, it's so rich because you're getting there though, right? Having gone from JP Morgan and then working out and now having your brand, your rich BFF. I'm getting closer, right? So like at JP Morgan, I had negative time freedom. They said, you're going to be here at 545 and you're going to leave at seven. Okay. And frankly, if I had a client event, I'd have to then go to the client event and I would get to leave at like 10.

56:09I had no time freedom. At a place like my second job at BuzzFeed, I had more time freedom. I had to come in at nine, but if I wanted to go take a client out for lunch, I could then work from home for the rest of the day. I still had to work, but I could get it done. I get to make my own calendar now but there are things that I do right now to learn and there are things that I do to earn and at some point it won't matter like I won't have to do things for money I will just get to choose the things that I want to do but now the money still matters I just want to say thank you I know how busy you are I know how jet-lagged you are I know all these things I know how sought-after you are and I just appreciate a huge amount you coming here and speaking to me about this.

56:57Congratulations. No, thank you so much for having me. By the way, I only did this because I was promised free candy. No, I'm just kidding. Don't worry, we got bags of it. Listen, before you go, we have eight quick fire questions. Let's do it. What's the saying or phrase that you'd want people to come away from this interview with? You have to make sacrifices for your dream. And if you don't, the dream is what you sacrifice. Best compliment anyone's ever given you about your work. It's not necessarily about my work, but I think the best compliment I always receive is when people meet me in person and they're like, wow, you are exactly who you are in person as you are, you know, when I watch you on my phone.

57:34And I think that's just such a compliment for me because I try to keep it real and I don't ever want to pretend to be someone that I'm not. And that's how you survive. Yeah. As soon as you stop being who you are, that's when it becomes confusing. And I think people, especially online, try and become someone else. Yeah. And actually being yourself is the most important thing. I also, frankly, and I'm not going to name names, but I have met some people that I have developed a parasocial relationship with online and then I meet them in person and I'm so deeply disappointed. I'm like, bro, you're boring.

58:04And I'm like, how are you so interesting on camera, but like so weird in person? And I just don't ever want to disappoint someone. It's really upsetting, isn't it? It's so upsetting. What scares you most about yourself? I think I can sometimes be blinded by ambition. Do you sacrifice friendships and family time for that? Yeah. And I think that if I am not careful, I could regret that eventually. I wish I saw my parents more. I had lunch with one of my girlfriends who happens to be in London literally yesterday. And she asked me, she was like, how often do you get to go out and see friends and do something fun?

58:41And I said, once a quarter. And I did not like how that sounded coming out of my mouth. When was the last time you cried? oh i i remember this is so humiliating um the season finale of the summer i turned pretty like i'm sorry but i love love i was just so excited when they announced the movie i mean like this is great i don't know that's like kind of an embarrassing answer you can use the best answer i'm like in tears my husband's like it's not that good i'm like okay well to you what's something you can't let go of a grudge i okay so just all right hear me out i'm not crazy but when i have been wronged by someone i will take it to the grave with me you will hold it hell yeah and people are like oh vivian that poisons you from the inside i don't care also no it doesn't it takes no effort to hate you forever i will hold on to that spite because you know what it is i use it like jet fuel like i remember there was this one girl who dm'd me i knew her from high school she dm'd me one of my own videos and this was when i was just starting i didn't have like a book i didn't have a podcast i hadn't gotten all these awards and she sent it to me with the caption or like the comment she's so cringe and it was clear that she had meant that for somebody else.

1:00:10And they were like talking about me behind my back. And I never forgot it. And I may or may not have made a deliberate effort to post about all of the wins that I've consistently had since then, not only on my Urich BFF handle, but my secret Instagram, because I need her to see it. I just, I like, you know what? It makes me so happy because it is not enough for me to win. I need to see my enemies fail. And you know what? No one else is going to say that out loud, but we're all thinking it.

1:00:55What's your guilty pleasure? Can I be really honest with you? Yeah, you can. And I'm not just saying this to like blow smoke up your ass. Like, I love candy. Really? Like, I will go home and just demolish. Like, I love it all. What turns you off? Someone who doesn't follow through. Like, that is my nightmare. Say what you are going to do and do what you said. Reliability. Yeah. Be someone I can count on. 100%. What turns you on?

1:01:28People who are passionate. It doesn't necessarily have to be the same thing that I'm passionate about. But I think that's why I, like, was so initially attracted to my husband. is that like he had a vision for his life and I had a vision for mine and we were able to make that vision work together and he never was like ah like one of us is gonna have to step back it was never that it was always like we can always make this work as a team wow yeah what do you like most about yourself what most people consider like a negative quality of being like a little flighty, a little ADHD, whatever, I consider to be one of my greatest strengths because I am able, like my brain is so small.

1:02:17I am able to just forget like rejection, nose, losses. Give me 45 minutes. I'll be thinking about something else again. But I think that's made me incredibly resilient. Yeah. And I love to make these jokes about how I have a small brain and I'm like, I'm dumb. But like, I think it's actually like almost protective of me and what I've built, because if I have a bad pitch and I'm like, God, that was a really bad pitch. I don't say I'm bad at pitching. I just say, damn, that sucks. Yeah. All right. What are we having for lunch? I am able to drop yeah quite quickly and I think that resilience is why I've been able to build a successful life I don't think I'm smarter than other people I don't think I'm you know better in any of those ways what I think it is is I've just been able to do it for longer I have a higher pain threshold and I am able to just forget resilience is fundamentally one of the most important things we've got to have in life.

1:03:25Yeah. And I'm the same as you. But it's interesting that you can hold a grudge, but you can drop those things. Yeah, but the grudge is fun. Because you know what? There is not one single person that has wronged me whose life didn't get worse. And I watched it happen. I'm not preying on your downfall. I'm going to actively participate. Viv, you're amazing. Listen, I want everyone to go and get Rich AF. It's in the link in our show description. You're incredible. Thank you so much. And you've been great company. Thank you so much for having me. That was amazing.

1:04:20and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. Your team just added its 67th AI tool and also your 67th security blind spot. The good news? The Vanta agent works like a GRC engineer in the background, finding every app your team uses, scoring the risk, and drafting fixes for you. Vanta is the platform used by over 16 ,000 fast-moving companies like Ramp, Cursor, and Harvey, who are shaping the future with AI and staying ahead of AI risk. Get started at Vanta.com.