VOGUE WILLIAMS: Debunking Divorce Rumours, S*x Parties & Spencer’s Wild Proposal

0:00You ready for this? Oh god. What do you love about Spence? Do you communicate well? What turns you on?

0:04Vogue Williams: Oh no Jamie. You went to a sex party? I went to a sex party. When was the last time you cried? Who's your hall pass? Who's Spence hall pass? You asked him?

0:15I can't wait.

0:18Vogue Williams: Hi I'm Vogue Williams and I'm in great company. Hello everybody and welcome. We believe Spence is a psychopath right? There's a torture something. We have a game which is called Spence and Matthews are psychopath. Okay. That sounds like something Spenny would say. That's a psychopath. I'm so sorry about the miscarriage. I know, yeah. You just feel like you're like, your whole body's just failed you. You're on your own. And like, I can't believe, why me? Why me? The articles that came out saying that your relationship was on the rocks and blah, blah, blah. Oh my God, they still are. Even when we were on holidays there, it was like, oh, they're making amends on this holiday.

0:53Vogue Williams: I'm like, making amends from what? Like, where has that come from? There was a big turn in your life, right? because at 22, 23, your dad passed away. He's had two heart attacks in two days. But how did you process the grief? I think I didn't. I kind of ran away to Australia. I just wanted to get away from the sadness. I remember when Spen said he was going to propose to you. You let him do that proposal. So have you seen our engagement pictures? I was just standing with the eyes.

1:22Vogue Williams: Thank you, Jamie. That was so fun.

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2:06Firstly, tell you who our guest is. It's Vogue Williams. She's a great friend of mine. She's married to one of my oldest, greatest friends, Spencer Matthews. I've had Spencer on the show before, and now it was Vogue's tone. She just recently announced she's having a fourth baby. So she's pregnant again, which is incredible and amazing and exciting. Now, I've asked Vogue to come on the podcast a lot of times, and she's always kind of said, maybe not now, maybe a little bit later. She's finally said yes. And we're going to talk about so many things. We talk about Spencer, her husband, her life growing up in Hoth in Ireland.

2:36The fact that her father died when she was in her early twenties, anxiety, work, divorce, it's all in there. So get ready for this because it's going to be amazing. And before we start, I want to ask you two things. Firstly, if you haven't subscribed to our show, please do join the amazing community of incredible people who are already following great company. It means we keep making better shows for you that deliver great guests because that's what we're here to do and secondly if you haven't already listened to my other show with my wife newly parents you can go and check that out as well okay here we go enjoy this great episode of great company with vogue williams what do you what do you love about spent i think deep down because we're best friends

3:14Vogue Williams: before everything we're a good team with the kids and everything and like i think when you become parents like I didn't want to lose myself completely either I still wanted to do what I want to do I love my job I love working I get such satisfaction out of my work he gets such satisfaction out of what he does and I think that both of us makes that still accessible to each other. Do you communicate well? We do a lot better now I think like if I want to I was back in Ireland at the weekend the last two weekends he started to smell a rat because I was spending additional time there because I was like I'll just have a lie in before I go home he like will then like deal with everything at home and then like when he wants to go off and do something then I deal with everything at home and I just think it's nice to have that kind of support from your partner We Believe Spence is a psychopath right?

4:05Vogue Williams: There's a touch of something There's a touch of something He's so isn't he just like the maddest person to kind of watch sometimes I've said this before people ask me if you could put a GoPro runs on his head and they didn't know it was on their head I would be him Do you ever watch him sometimes? And I'm like who are you talking to? Like because he'll be beside me and we'll be going for a walk and he's like and I'm like who are you talking to? And he's like and he'll tell me who he's talking to in his head it will be a person like and he'll be like thinking about a conversation that's going to happen later but I can just see him like this in the odd hand move I'm like I know you're talking to somebody Toy in his head pre-empting it That's very psychopath Okay so we have a game which is called Spencer Matthews or Psychopath Okay I'm going to read some sentences.

4:48You have to decide if it's Spencer who has said it or it's a psychopath.

4:51Vogue Williams: Okay. You ready for this? Yeah. Okay, is this Spencer or a psychopath? What if my problem wasn't that I don't understand people, but I just don't like them? That sounds like something Spenny would say. That's a psychopath. Is this Spencer or a psychopath? The two emotions that I feel are greed and disgust. Oh, please let that be a psychopath. Is that Spencer? It's Spencer. Yeah. He said it to me this morning. But it's actually a quote. And then he went, actually, that's a quote from a movie. But yeah, he said it to me. That's from American Psycho or something like that. My hero has always been myself.

5:27Vogue Williams: That sounds like Sven. It's Sven. Yeah.

5:32Vogue Williams: I asked him the other day, I was like, let's play a game. What would you change about yourself? And he was like, what? And I was like, well, what would you change about yourself physically? Like, what do you do physically first? And he's like, nothing. And I'm like, nothing. Nothing. I had this list as long as my arm. I'm like, he's like, why would I change anything? Why would I change anything? I'm like, your height? Spencer's psychopath. Do you have any idea how crazy you sound? Psychopath? That's a psychopath. Pain is essential. That sounds like Spenny telling you running, Charlie. Is he telling you something about running?

6:06Yes, Spencer. I'm not a fan of being told what to do.

6:11Vogue Williams: That doesn't sound like him. That's Spenny. Really? Yeah, that's Spenny. I thought that sounded more like me Being comfortable is terrible It's detriment to growth That's like something Spenny read In one of the three books He's ever read That's it Last one I don't understand How words can get Such a reaction from people I don't care That sounds like him That's a psychopath Is it? But he doesn't care Like if someone slags him off He doesn't care You know sometimes you'd be like Ooh that hurt a bit Yeah he doesn't He doesn't have That like Whatever it is I'd love to have that though Yeah but To not care What people think about me But do you have that?

6:49Vogue Williams: No not really I do I don't like people being mean about me Really? Yeah Because you have this strong Like Yeah Shell right that means But then you get upset When people I try to avoid comments Like I mean it's You see the odd thing And I don't really care But like if you see loads of stuff Sometimes it's just like It kind of just It's like No one can really just Shield themselves from absolute Like you shouldn't read it But like if you read it It's like, oh my God, it's just, it's relentless. And you think those people, like, comes from people that you don't even know as well. It's so weird. So we're talking about comments and daily mail things and stuff like that, right?

7:25Vogue Williams: You do well on them. If I ever want to cheer myself up, I'll read yours. Mine are terrible. Yeah, but like, these are people that have time to sit at home and like comment things. Do you know what I mean? Like I had this woman mail me. She was mailing me all this awful stuff. And eventually I just mailed some of her family that were like, because I could tell by her second name. because it was her own account. And I just was like, this person is sending me this. So that's my new way about it. What were they saying? Oh, just like awful things about like the way I looked and like just mad stuff about myself that wasn't even true.

7:56Vogue Williams: It's some idiot person. I know, but I'll ignore it most of the time. But if it's an actual person and not like a boss or something, I'm like, okay, this is just a little bit weird. And I'll just, like, that's what I did the last time. It's a good thing to do. I, you know, all the articles that came out saying that your relationship was on the rocks and blah blah blah. Oh my God, they still are. But why do they? So they were coming out when Spen and I were, remember, when we were chatting about it last summer, Spen and I were in the process of buying our new house and I was like, this is just so strange.

8:25Vogue Williams: And even when we were on holidays there in St. Bart's, we hadn't announced our pregnancy yet. It was like, oh, they're making amends on this holiday. I'm like, making amends from what? Like, where has that come from? Because I remember when, and I was talking to Spen about it, right? And he was saying, it's actually becoming quite upsetting now that so many people are writing this crap. That really upset me. Because I was like, I don't want my baby like being born and like growing up and reading something like that. That's absolutely not true. And for us to have been trying for so long and to finally be at this point, I know, but like, that's what it's like, that's kind of what you have to deal with.

9:04Vogue Williams: And it's not all the time. And I get that like, there's give and take as well. But like, it's just, I don't know where it comes from I think it's just an interesting line to go with us putting their marriage crisis behind them I'm like what? I'm so sorry about the miscarriage I know yeah but that like genuinely it happens to so many people I know like two out of three and the reason I spoke about it was because I remember like when it happened like not that I wanted it to happen to other people but like seeing other people talk about it I was like okay it's because you just feel like you're like your whole body just failed you're on your own and like why me why me but why not you because like it happens all the time it happens like every like a two out of three i know it's crazy the statistics are really really high it's really high yeah like i've had friends that have had extremely late miscarriages and i look at that and i'm like that would be the most difficult thing in the world so you just kind of have to move forward with this but then i imagine also when there's press and all articles and all these different things.

10:08And so when you speak about it, you're just like, well, what are the press going to say? What are all these people going to say? And then you have to manage that as well, where most people can sort of do this in their private life.

10:17Vogue Williams: I didn't speak about it at the time at all. And then only when like now, but even with this pregnancy, I was like, I just don't want to say it. Like we got to a really late stage and I was like, it's starting to get obvious now. Like it's, people are starting to talk about it. And so I was like, right, we're going to have to announce it. And I got to this stage where I was like, okay, I feel grand that we're able to announce it now. because I didn't want to tell the kids till really late either. And because of the last time, but I didn't tell them the last time. I was literally about to tell them and I wanted to wait till that scan.

10:45Vogue Williams: How did they take it? Oh, they're so excited. Well, Otto currently wants to get back into my stomach. He's like, I want to get back in. I'm like, not now. I actually asked Sven to send you a voice note. Okay. I said to Sven, can you send me a voice note about Vogue? And I gave him no brief. I didn't say anything. I said, can you send a voice note? because I think it'd be nice to play to you. So this is what he said. So my wife and best pal, Vogue, she changed my life for the better completely. Made me realize a few things about myself and that change was really needed in order to be a good enough person to deserve her.

11:28I'll always be very thankful for that. She's the most exceptional mother, beautiful heart beautiful soul the mother side to her is a thing of beauty you should see her in action with the kids always puts them first loves them with every inch of her misses them when she's away from them for you know hours and a deeply caring and beautiful individual strong, independent powerful gorgeous woman I feel lucky every single day to be married to her

12:04Vogue Williams: Very nice of Spenna He's very romantic though He's very in touch with his emotions and how he feels about people But we feel like that about each other, we do feel really lucky that you are lucky to find somebody that you can grow with, we've grown a lot We've been together I don't know I'm going to start the rumours again Eight years? Is it nine? Is it nine? Eight years? When was it? Oh my god I think he was 29 Yeah and like I mean that's young And you've been And listen You've been through Everything together And like Spen has been so open About like drinking And it's just a whole thing That you've been through Which is amazing Like you do grow up With each other But like he was 29 Oh my god yeah He was young when I met him Like that's young To be getting married And also, I don't want to separate, but like being a guy in 29, like living in London, it's young.

13:00Vogue Williams: Yeah, I mean, he was like a ma joke when I met him. I remember when Spen said he was going to propose to you. You let him do that proposal. You let him take me to the Lion King.

13:13Wait, can you, I'm going to describe it first, right? And then you can describe it.

13:17Vogue Williams: You knew of it. I fucking knew. Why did you let that? Can I just, from my point of view, this is Spencer telling me he was going to propose to you. And I was like, this is so great. Let's go. And he was like, I'm going to propose to her at the Lion King. And I went, fine. That's not a great idea. And he was like, no, I'm going to do it. And even now, when he says to me, he's like, the West End production of the Lion King was on. And in the end, we were going backstage. age and suddenly I was like next to Simba and Nala and I was getting down on one knee to propose to you and it was so full on.

13:56Vogue Williams: He first of all thought - Can you explain what he said? Can you explain to me? Give me the whole evening. So okay so no it actually started from before that we were up in Scotland in his parents' place and he kept wanting to watch The Lion King and I was like I don't like I don't like The Lion King. Like I never watched it when I was younger. I kind of like I liked Beauty and the Beast but like I'm now like 30. I don't want to watch The Lion King and he's like, oh come on, let's just watch The Lion King and I was pregnant at the time and so then I fell asleep and he was like, Vogue, The Lion King and I was like, God, he's mad about The Lion King and then so I was like, whatever I'll ignore it because he does, he loves The Lion King and then all of a sudden we get home and he goes, guess what darling I got tickets for The Lion King and I was like, the fucking fucking king This guy's mental He just won't leave it so I was like, okay cool we'll go to the Lion King.

14:45Vogue Williams: And I had really bad morning sickness as well. So we're in the Lion King and like not even halfway through, I was like, I think we should go home. I don't feel very well. And he was like, no darling, we have a backstage, backstage meet and greet. So we go backstage and we're introduced to these battered lions who were so wrecked from just doing a two hour performance. And they're like, we've got to meet these plebs. So I was like, and they're like hello one of them is Spencer Matthews he's just been on the jump and this is this is I think they're dating and this is Vogue can you just be really nice then because Spencer has decided he wants to propose what do you mean he wants to propose the best yeah yeah he loves it I don't know if his wife likes it but they're just excited so what happens he thought that they were going to let him like in the middle of the show do it and they were like no like it's a West End show like it's a packed audience we can't just break the show in the middle so you can propose so that's why we had the backstage viewing poor Sven I was like why don't you just take me to the Hoth the Cliffs in Hoth is like my favourite place that's where I want to be scattered and he takes me to the Lion King anyway like so we're back there and then I can't wait but then he proposed but like the worst part of editing Have you seen our engagement pictures?

16:14No.

16:19Vogue Williams: Starting with the lights.

16:28Vogue Williams: Smiling.

16:31Vogue Williams: Oh, it is so... Who's taking the photo? Probably the stage manager who's like, get out now, you've done it.

16:44after you propose the weirdest thing is we've got we've got the photo I'm so sorry for everyone who's in the podcast who's listening you have we're gonna put up on our socials

16:57Vogue Williams: you have to google the photo it's so funny that is so funny this is your this is your fourth baby fourth I know man are you kidding me I know but Jamie once you get past three you could have 15 it doesn't matter Like my life is over now My weekend Everyone's like What are you doing for the weekend And I'm like Oh my god Think of something fun Anything interesting And I'm like Well I've got football at 11 Then I've got another football At 12.45 Which is a match And then we take Gigi to Pottery And then like That's my weekend And then Sunday Is more football But like It is The greatest thing in the world But it is the hardest thing in the world But explain Because if you If you know how hard it is And pregnancy is hard And all that stuff is hard And it's like Tarring And it's exhausting and it's expensive and blah blah blah So expensive So expensive So expensive Man it's You haven't even started school Buckle up Jamie Fuck it Can I tell you what happened to me?

17:51Apparently my baby needed an osteopath Right?

17:54Vogue Williams: Oh yeah I did that Okay yeah yeah And like no shade because I don't know if it does work or not I don't know if it won't Ziggy comes in and he's like He's like whatever like four days old or whatever he is And then the person holds Ziggy and then And he falls asleep and she's like, see? And I'm like, I'm fucking, it was like that, like 10 minutes ago. Like, what do you, do you know what though? I'm like, what do you mean you can charge? Revert back to when you were a child. I don't, I block it out. No, I say you were mental. I know way too many stories about you. Mental, mental. Spanked myself in front of my teddy bears.

18:39Vogue Williams: anyway back to the osteopath yeah I think that there's things that like we did with Theodore when he was first born and people are like they've just been birthed and like their shoulders are out of place and like you need to get their cranium or whatever like fixed and I was like oh my god I have to go and do this and then we went and did it and I just I didn't do it with Gigi and I didn't do it with Otto and I didn't do it myself my mom never think about like I'm pretty sure I just like slept in a box like in Ireland you were brought up and you were like because I was looking at my kids the other day and I was like, what are you liking your sandwiches, guys?

19:12Vogue Williams: And like cutting up strawberries and everything. I was like, I was genuinely making my own sandwiches at eight years old. I swear to God. But I wasn't going anywhere because it's not like my mom paid for a camp. I was just sent outside. My sister and I used to go swimming in a swamp. Like that's what we did this weekend. You didn't. Yeah. Amber and I were feral. The process of being pregnant is hard. Pregnancy you find As in the birth part Easy or tough I look forward to it I have to say Really? I'd rather like be able If I could skip the pregnancy bit And like I'd give birth 10 times Instead of having to do the pregnancy birth Everyone's so nice to you When you're giving birth It's like Everyone is so nice The gas and air is Tremendous Did you get to try it?

19:55Vogue Williams: I tried it I took it down It's great I was like I was at a festival Paris Fury came on And she said she named her Baby Prince After doing gas and air She did gas and air and then was like, I'm going to name him Prince. She is just like, it's like the noise escapes her. She's just so like calm in the chaos. Me and you have known each other a long time, right? And she reminds me in some way of you. And I promise you that in like the best way. Well, that's a compliment. It is a complete compliment. She's a complete boss. She says it how it is. She's very entertaining. She's super smart. And she doesn't take shit.

20:31Vogue Williams: No. And when you sit with someone like that, because when I'm with you, it's the same vibe. You automatically respect that. Because you have this sense of just like, this is who I am. This is who I'm going to be. I don't have time for any other shit because I've got three kids, another one on the way. That's what you're like. I don't really play into the bullshit. I don't think anyone should play into the bullshit. But people do though. Yeah, but I just think it must be exhausting. I couldn't really put on a front of what I'm actually like because I think it would just take too much effort and too much time.

21:03Vogue Williams: But were you always like that? Yeah, I kind of was. I was always quite self-assured. I knew what I wanted. I knew what I wanted to do. I dressed up as a model to go to a party. When I was like nine, I decided I wanted to be a model. I was rotten as a kid. Like rotten. No one fancied me. Like all my friends, everyone used to fancy them when we were like 12, 13. I was just like this alien. I was so tall. Yeah, yeah. Not a tis to the name So no boys fancy me So you're just like a tall A tall plank With a huge mate that I hadn't grown into You went to this party as a model Because you were like This is what I want to be I want to be a model But you wanted to be famous right?

21:49Vogue Williams: I wanted to be a TV presenter At one point I wanted to be a pop star I used to go around And I mean I really can't sing And I used to go to these auditions Me and my friend would go And like I couldn't dance She was a good dancer At least she had the dancing And we used to go I used to do street tap Jazz and funk And all these things I was so shit This giant at the back I used to just kind of hide But I would go to these auditions And like the audacity Of me showing up And singing Singing Alicia Keys Falling Yeah That really hard song Without being able to sing And you were going for that Yeah I was just hitting those iNotes, screaming along.

22:31Vogue Williams: So I was always trying to do like things like that. Because I think when I was a kid as well, I loved this idea. And I think that's what led me into like whatever we were doing now. I love the idea of having the attention on me for whatever reason. Yeah, I was definitely an attention seeker, but I grew up in a family of four. So my mom and dad had three. And then they had my little brother Alexander, my stepdad and my mom. I don't know if it was looking for attention because me and my sister were kind of just, always up to all sorts. Just like, yeah, nightmares. But happy? So happy. Go on, give it to me.

23:05Explain it to me. Like, so, this isn't her, right?

23:07Vogue Williams: Amber is my best friend in the whole world. And she's so great. She's so brilliant. She's so funny. Like, we probably talk about five times a day. She is, I think, closer than a sister. And always been that way. Always been that way. But I think we are so close because I was trying to figure it out because I was like, sisters are close and sisters are mad about each other. But me and Amber are super close. It's like we're really tight. Like I'm always like, oh my God, if I die first, you have to come in with me. I need to be buried with you. I've told Sven, I'm like, Sven, we're not getting buried together.

23:37Vogue Williams: I'm getting buried with Amber. I think it's because growing up, our life was different to everybody else. It's like we grew up in a time where like divorce was just over the line in Ireland. This is 95, 96, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like the whole country had voted against divorce before this. And then it came up to the divorce referendum again. 51 % of people voted in favor of divorce. So 49 % of the country thought that no one should be allowed to get divorced. It was mad. That is totally mad. I know, it's crazy. And it wasn't that long ago. So when my mom and dad were together, a portion of that time, they weren't legally allowed to get divorced.

24:15Vogue Williams: Like it was crazy. And then I even remember like going into the church, like we used to go to mass. It was back in the day when everyone used to go to mass. Sitting there with my mom. And then the priest started talking about second marriages and how they were wrong and that it was disgraceful and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because obviously the priest wasn't in favor of divorce. And my mom like stood up and we stormed out of the church. And then she's like, no, you can go back there if you want, but I'm not going back. And we were like, fuck yes, we don't have to go back there anymore. And so like there was all this weird thing.

24:45Vogue Williams: And we were like a very like there was a minority of people whose families were broken up and ours was one of them. And I think that my mom and dad just didn't get on at all. So like we always had each other. Did you know that your mom and dad weren't getting on? I think I did when I, because I was very young at the time. So around five. So I'd like, obviously you'd hear the arguments and stuff like that. Like it was not the greatest time. And I think even at that time, like the courts were kind of figuring out, like how do we deal with something like this? So we ended up like living with my mom for three weeks.

25:17Vogue Williams: And then living with my dad for three weeks. I didn't even, that's so wild. Yeah, but I always think like fair play to my mom because she then was working like three jobs at one point bringing us up. So like we had this, she was working as an airhouse desk and she was like, she was babysitting for people. And then she was working in a restaurant and she met my stepdad where she worked in the restaurant. And then they got together. We didn't have loads and loads, but like I never felt like I didn't have loads. She was working three jobs. Three jobs. That's mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I never noticed it.

25:48Vogue Williams: I think the only time I noticed that we had no money was when my mom was dropping me somewhere on a bike, like to a party. And I remember being a bit embarrassed that she was dropping me. I bring my kids everywhere on my bike. But for some reason, I was like, this is embarrassing. We don't have a car. But she never made us. Mom, don't fucking drop me on the bike. Mom. Not this shit bike. I remember what that bike looks like. I must have been like six. What a bitch. So what age were you when they got divorced? I think I was around seven when they got divorced Do you remember that moment? No You don't?

26:24Vogue Williams: I remember having to live with my mum for three weeks and then live with my dad for three weeks while the courts decided who we would spend the majority of the time with My dad, I didn't want to live with him I love my dad so much but he couldn't cook or anything like that and he just wasn't the right one to live with Anyway, we got to live with my mum and then we saw my dad every second weekend on Wednesday and he never missed it. When my parents got divorced, I remember the exact moment. Do you? You know as a kid when... Were you sad? Well, you know as a kid when something bad happens, you almost laugh because you don't really know how to react.

26:56I remember when my... Your mom telling you, you're like... Yeah, of course it is. Oh my God, how hard for your mom. Yeah, it was hard. But I remember we got taken into a room and it was me and my brother and my two older sisters. And my two older sisters were maybe 18 and 16 at the time and they'd already been through a divorce. Oh God. Man, so it was heavy, right? and all of them came into the room. Looking back at that now, it's like the worst way to do something like that. Because whenever that happens, you feel like first you're being told off. So I was like, am I being told off here? Like, why is, I didn't understand it.

27:30Vogue Williams: But how would you do it? Like, you just kind of want to. I think, I don't know. And they said, look, you know, we're getting a divorce. And the only thing I could do was laugh. So I started laughing. My parents were like, fuck, this kid's weird. Anyway What's wrong with this kid? And then You walk out And you just go and play It's like it doesn't Yeah it's done It's done And it was so weird Until Sort of years later When you sort of look back And you go Fucking I was very much jealous Of people who had like Families still together When I was older God you see I wasn't You weren't This sounds terrible But I was thrilled Of course

28:10Yeah yeah This is good

28:11Vogue Williams: Yeah yeah yeah I, my parents did not speak. Like they did not like each other at all. Well, my dad probably liked my mom, but my mom did not like my dad. So I played that so incredibly well. Like I, I was living the life. Like I was getting like loads of shit off my dad and then telling my mom, oh, I need this. And then my mom would have to buy me something. And then like my parents, my mom and Neil were really strict. So I'd be like, I'd ask, could I go to a festival at 16? And they were like, no, you absolutely can't. And I'm like, I'm just going to go and stay with dad because I'm going down to my cousin's house this weekend and off I'd go on a bus to a festival.

28:45Vogue Williams: I snuck off to, where was it? Ben and Medina with my friend when I was 17 with stolen money that I'd robbed off my dad. And then - How much money was it? I think I got to about 600 quid. Whoa. What? Wait, wait, hang on. Sorry. I thought you were going to be like 20 quid. You stole - Jamie, I was going on holidays. Where was I going with 20 quid? Sorry, you're fucking, you're arriving to parties on bikes and then stealing 600 quid. So my dad was a used car salesman. So he never had, he always had loads of cash. And so he'd put his cash in his bedside table. And I was like, I'd like sneak my hand around the door and just rob a couple of 50s.

29:30Vogue Williams: And then off I'd go. No, no, more than a couple of 50s. Well, Jamie, I did it over time. I didn't want him to notice. Oh, you slipped the map. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay, fine. I used to find like notes down the cage because he'd sit there after a few drinks because he was fond of a drink and he'd sit there and all the money would fall out of his pocket. So it wouldn't just be coins. Sometimes I'd find like notes down there. I'm like, this is amazing. Why didn't your mum get on with your dad? He was really difficult. Like he would be a difficult person to have to be married to, I would say. Like he was great crack and we had a great time with him.

29:59Vogue Williams: But like, I definitely wouldn't want to be married to him. And now my mum's married to my stepdad and they've been married. God I'm gonna say I can't count over like 37 38 years maybe and they just have the best relationship like they just want to be with each other all the time That's fucking amazing though Yeah No they get on like they have the best relationship Because in your book Big Mouth Thank you Jamie Nice second Don't worry Don't worry about it Paperback edition out now Link in the show description Yeah you said your dad told your mom in a way that she didn't deserve Yeah Because I think she was just like she was a hard worker for a long time she started working quite young as well and I just I don't know I'd say he was just difficult he was like a big drinker he and I think when anyone's a big drinker it just makes things difficult for everybody else within their lives and I think him being like that like he like she was basically doing everything and she just I suppose that's when she was on her own it probably didn't make much of a difference to her but that's why even with my stepdad I'm like you must have really loved her to like take because me and Amber honestly we were awful how rebellious were you guys?

31:11Vogue Williams: oh like anything so like give it to me like so like anything anything I shouldn't be doing I was doing anything and I keep in mind that they were very strict so like I didn't get caught for much Amber got caught for absolutely everything she feels like the person who would get caught like for some reason for her school and her school had to call them in and like Amber got caught for absolutely everything. But we used to, you'd nick drink from your parents at the weekends and then I'd just go down and you'd have this dolly mixture. So you'd get a, did you used to do that? What is it? Dolly mixture is a bag of sweets.

31:45Vogue Williams: Well, no, because so you'd get a bottle, like a 500ml Coke bottle and you'd pour half of it out. And then the other half might be whiskey, gin, vodka, because you didn't want to take too much of everything because they would know then. So we'd fill up our drinks and I'd go meet my friends in the park and just get pissed all day Saturday and then just kind of arrive home like filthy and fall over. From this dolly mixture. Yeah. You never did that. And you're like, the boys would never know. They never knew what me. They knew what Amber. So you were smoking, everything? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like literally anything.

32:21Vogue Williams: I would just, and what about boys? Well, I was a minger for so long. that it didn't. They weren't on the cards. I'm going to, I'll get you a picture. They weren't on the cards for that long. And then I was always a relationship person. So like, I, not that I was a frigid, but like, I just wasn't, how would you put it? I wasn't getting around the place. You weren't getting around. I wasn't getting around the place. And now I'm like, I hope I don't regret that on my deathbed. I'm like, I should have been getting around more. So, oh my God. So when did you, so when did you lose your virginity? I should have pointed it on Come on, Vogue It sounds so creepy that Do not make a video of this Yeah, me saying that Where the fuck do you lose your virginity?

33:06Vogue Williams: Oh my god, what age were you? You were probably I was 15 I didn't want to put my hands up like that 15? I was 15 I'm actually, that's not too bad Yeah, 15 was fine But I didn't know what I was doing Honestly, I had no fucking clue what I was doing And the girl that I did it with Was like, have you done this before? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah Oh, I'm ready Oh yeah Plenty of times Mine was just like I just wanted to Lose my virginity Because I thought like Oh get rid of it Yeah I just wanted it It wasn't like a It wasn't a romantic thing Oh no I think I was like I was 18 Oh you were 18 Yeah Yeah With a boyfriend With a boyfriend Yeah yeah yeah So I had a boyfriend Who was older than me Then I always had boyfriends Then I met my next Long term boyfriend Who was my boyfriend For like six and a half years Then I met My ex-husband And that was a long relationship and then I met Sven.

33:56Vogue Williams: I mean, there was a couple in between, but like I tried to date before Sven. I really thought I gave it a good go. But it didn't quite. Because I feel like you would be a great dater. I just know because I just, I love people I know and I love my friends so much. And I do, I've started making new friends. Like you do, you make naturally, you make new friends with the jobs you're doing. But like, I just love being around people I know and I spend so much time around my family and people I know that like, dating was hard for me because I would just be really immature about it I'd be like I don't want to eat in front of them I even remember when I met Spen like the whole toilet situation I'd be like I'm just I'm just popping across the road for some tea again and Spenny has no he's got like he doesn't like there's no boundaries with him no so like he had this he had one bathroom one bathroom in his bedroom with a slidey door with a slidey door and I remember I've actually never thought of that.

34:55Vogue Williams: That is actually... So where would you go? To Oire across the road. To the cafe across the road. Even a bit more awkward. That was a bit of a small door as well. Because weirdly enough, I would live... You live below. I live below Spencer in the apartment. So you would go across to the cafe. Well, the one time I was caught out, then all of a sudden, the sliding door opens. And Sven, he's just standing there. And I'm like, Sven, this is why I don't want to stay here. you know what he's like he just kind of stands there because he's awkward and weird he doesn't care so i'm just in there like please no

35:38still waiting in line again that's time you will never get back save time and money with stamps.com Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. But also, there was a big turn in your life, right? Because at 22, 23, your dad passed away.

36:15Vogue Williams: Yeah. Which is, at that age as well When you're kind of coming into life And that's the kind of time When you start to really like Experience life as it is Then your dad passes I know, it wasn't massively shocking Was it not? Because he, this is again I think when my sister and I were so close He was sick for my whole life Like as long as I can remember I remember when I was I think I was around I must have been like 10 And being brought in to see him He'd had two heart attacks in two days and like I just remember going in I had a Game Boy in my hand and I remember going and seeing him and I looked up and I got such a fright that I looked back to head and then I wouldn't look at him again and he kept trying to talk to me and I was just like I just want to get out of this room I just remember being like Why?

36:55Vogue Williams: Because he just had loads of tubes and everything and I was really young and I just didn't want to see it I was like this is awful I hate this but then he was quite sick for my like he loved smoking he died of fun like he was always out having a laugh he used to put butter on his chips he was so unhealthy I never saw him do exercise. And he used to smoke loads and he drank. But like he was always quite sick, like for our whole life. So then like, then he had a stroke at some point. And then like going in to see him with that. And like there was loads of stuff all along the way. Like he spent a lot of time in hospital.

37:35Vogue Williams: But do you miss him? Ah, yeah. I mean, you think of things when like, even when I met my kids, I'm like, God, he would have loved to have spent time with my kids. he would have loved coming over to London and like all those kind of things. So you look at things like that and you're like, they're missing out on that. I was lucky to get him till we did. I mean, he was young. I like young now. In today's terms, he was 68. The Irish way is like, get up and keep moving. You know, you don't seem to, you don't wallow in pity. And also you don't like pity. It's just like, yeah, this happened. He had a good ride.

38:08Yeah. Whatever. We move on. I miss him. Of course I miss him. I wish I had more, but you know you don't you don't wallow in it almost i think a really good way to be like a

38:17Vogue Williams: lot of people go through really difficult things in their lives yeah like you can either allow those difficult things to kind of make you take a step back and just make you retreat and make you not want to do stuff and just be wallowing in what has happened or you can choose a different path and just be like do you know what no i'm not going to just live my life constantly thinking about this constantly being like oh well i'm just so sad about this that i can't move forward but Like it depends on what it is. And you kind of have to put things into perspective as well. How did you process the grief?

38:46Vogue Williams: I think I didn't. I kind of ran away to Australia because I had been in a long term relationship. I was still with him when my dad died. Then we broke up. Then I met my ex-husband quite quickly after that, like really quickly. And then he was like, why don't you? You're not going to say his name, Jamie. I get it. Brian McFadden. And you Of Westlife fame I can't think of any of your exes Yeah, yeah, yeah Frankie Gaff

39:19There you go You just did it to yourself Yeah, yeah, I just did it to myself So you met Brian McFadden in Australia

39:26Vogue Williams: No, I met him in Ireland Okay And then I moved to Australia And I think that like all of the sadness I just wanted to get away from the sadness and people being like, oh, I'm really sorry to hear about your dad. I kind of just ran away from it. And then I dealt with it when I was over there. And I was like, oh, holy shit. I went and got married and everything. Fuck. I just want to get into your headspace. You're just like, I don't want this here. I think it's too heavy. It's too people asking questions. I'm just going to get out. No, I was meant to go for three months. And then I ended up kind of just kept getting visas and staying.

40:01Vogue Williams: Doing work? Yeah, I started working a bit over there. Modeling? Modelling, no The closest I got to modelling was Irish modelling I mean there are some great Irish models who are actual models I once was employed by a burger shop to open the burger shop and they had made this massive burger probably about the size of this table and so like I had to wear like a t-shirt of the shop and I had to like lift the top of the burger and stick my head in So that was the kind of modelling Like you were surprised what's in it I was part of the burger I'll show you the picture You're part of the burger And it's And it was an actual burger A giant massive burger But you flew to Australia Flew to Australia Lived there for a little while But what were you doing out there?

40:51What work were you doing?

40:52Vogue Williams: I did Dancing with the Stars Badly How can you do Dancing with the Stars in Australia without Oh so before all of this happened Yeah So I had done a reality show in Ireland That's it That's the one Yeah, a reality show in Ireland. And so I started doing that. And then from... Fade Street. Fade Street. It aired the day my dad died. And I always said he died of embarrassment for watching this.

41:18Vogue Williams: He saw that and said, oh God. You know, I'm out of here. This is too much. It was about a group of girls, wasn't it? Yeah. But a little bit like Made in Chelsea? A little bit like, yeah, like a really cheap version of Made in Chelsea. But like, I kind of was able to stay on the outside of it. So I had a boyfriend at the time. He didn't want to be in it. And so I avoided all that like... Dramas and things like that. I just, like, I think that you guys had to get so cutthroat. Ours was like... Vicious. Yeah, vicious. And also I was talking about this day, like looking back at it. Man, I don't even remember that time.

41:56Vogue Williams: It was kind of like an acting job for you guys though. That's what Spen likes to say a lot. It's very nice to be like I was just acting I'm a fantastic actor I was just acting a character Really? Really? Okay Well the one thing about Sven though because when I met Sven I just thought I was like oh he's going to be a bit of an RSL because I'd only read things about him that's why I'm always like no you have to make up your own mind about somebody because never trust what you've read or seen about somebody and it was so true to him that like as soon as I met him I remember leaving the ski place being like I'm going to be best mates with him like he's so much crack and my friends two of my gay friends were obviously like no you need to get with him and I was like no no no no because they thought he was a ride and I was like no but I think that we'll be really good friends because this was on the jump yeah and you guys you guys were doing this show together it was on Channel 4 and you were like you were secretly like It was trying to be a secret, but Ben was telling everybody.

43:00Yeah, and I remember Ben saying it to me, and he was like, And I was like, shut up. You're still telling people. I was like, no, that's not true. And he, but it was the first time ever he was like totally on the back foot. Do you know what? He was totally on the back foot. Because you guys were friends, and then you started hooking up.

43:19Vogue Williams: Yeah, we were friends. And I genuinely, I didn't want to get into another relationship. I was like, I can't. I'd just done some really good work with my therapist and we'd figured out what was wrong with me. And I knew... Because McFadden, you and McFadden had... Well, there was other people after that that I'd gone out with. And I was like, I just keep going for the wrong person. And I was like, I need to... I think the best thing that you can do when you break up with somebody is just be single for a while. And just... Because I hated being on my own. And so I was like, I need to learn how to enjoy being by myself again.

43:47Vogue Williams: Because I'd always had somebody to rely on, somebody to go to the party with, somebody to do... There was always somebody there that I had to do something. Because you felt like you needed that. I just, yeah, I love being around people, but I was like, I have to stop doing that because I'm jumping from thing to thing because I want to go out with somebody. So then I stopped doing that. And after about six months, I loved being single. Like I was having so much fun. Just go and do whatever you want. It was just like... You didn't have to report to anyone? No, I didn't have to report to anyone. You didn't have to freaking...

44:16Vogue Williams: Like nothing. Nothing. It was brilliant. And then I was like, I should do this for a while. And then I met Spenny And I think sometimes you meet somebody and you're like, shite. We tried to not like be going out with each other. And we were like, no, no, no, we're just friends. We're just friends. We're just friends. And then eventually it's probably the march or something that we were like, okay, we'll just succumb to the fact that we just keep coming back together. I was never a good dater. I'm just, I've always been like better at relationships. Can I, can I, and I know it's, it's a long time ago, but when you go through a divorce, right?

44:47Vogue Williams: Yeah. And it's public. It's really embarrassing. Just explain that to me. It's quite humiliating because you know people have started speculating and people have started talking about it and you're hearing it. You're like, you know it's true and you're just trying to not let it out. And then I think we released a really cringey statement as well, which I don't think is necessary. I think it's now that I'm older, I don't think I'd be as embarrassed as I was, but I was just like the failure of it. And because so many people expected it as well. like I remember my brother my older brother Frederick I was like getting married we're going to get married here and he was living in Australia at the time and he was like oh I just I can't like get back from Australia but I'll tell you what I'll go to the next one and he did he came to the next one thank God in your book right you say that even on the wedding day you felt like this wasn't quite right yeah but like it was too late on the wedding day because we had gotten married before that there's no I don't ever harbour any real bad feelings things happen because they happen.

45:53Vogue Williams: We weren't right for each other. And I genuinely like, there's no ex that like, I'm not saying that I'm friends with all my exes, but I wouldn't like, if I met them, I'd say hello and it would be fine. 100%, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just a different time in your life. But I remember getting divorced being like, this is just incredibly embarrassing and just feeling like what a big failure. And now I look back and I'm like, God, it wasn't really. It's just like, that's worrying too much about other people's opinions. and I kind of, I really try not to do that. Like, Svenny's so good at that. He couldn't give a shit.

46:23Vogue Williams: He doesn't give a shit. Anyone thinks. It's amazing. He doesn't give a shit. But also, I think it's like such a good point, right, for like people listening, which is where when you're stuck in that, like, it's like a storm in a teacup. Yeah. You think it's everything. Yeah. And you're like, fuck, I'm a failure. I'm never going to come out of it. Oh my God. And no one cares after a while. They don't. No.

46:44Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you will never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. I didn't realise how many wicked documentaries you made

47:18Vogue Williams: Yeah I made loads Loads? I used to do them all the time What is your favourite one you've done? I did one on the prison system in America and that was mad because I was going to meet the youngest woman on death row who I did meet I actually just googled her recently because it was so long ago so she had killed a woman with this man he was married to the woman they killed the woman together she got death and he got life and it's just it was just the way For what reason? Because the way the press were portraying her and stuff like that and she was pregnant at the time and she went into prison obviously had the baby and the baby was taken away but I googled her recently and now she's reduced to life as well but like it was the whole American prison system so she was kind of the end interview going and spending time in like young offenders institutes and like these kids that like some of them I met people who robbed a car when they were younger and they got 20 years in prison.

48:13Vogue Williams: Like 20 years. That's their whole life gone. For making a young mistake. For making a stupid mistake. But I remember there was like, it was like kind of drill sergeants, like these women who were like in charge of the prisons that the young offenders were in. And I was like, my director was like, we're going to immerse you in it. And I was like, okay, cool. And then after about an hour, I was like, I really don't like this. Screaming in my face. I was like, and it was about an hour into it. And I was like, I can't. Please tell them to shop. Is it that brutal? It was brutal. But it was fascinating.

48:48Vogue Williams: And to see how people get their lives back on track after being in prison, even down to removing all their tattoos and their gang tattoos. And there's these bakeries in LA where they employ just people who have come from prison. And it's like trying to make your lives for themselves again. But geez, you're like... What is it like inside an American prison? Obviously, if you're committing crimes, you should be you should like do the time as they say but like I think some of the crimes are just like you rob a car a couple of times like does that mean your whole life gets taken away from you I'm with you it's absolutely crazy over there but I did a documentary around sex let's go here we go we were invited to this like as I lean in this sex this sex party and it was in you went to a sex party I went to a sex party but it was in like so it was a sex party that happened all the time it was like a sex club kind of thing in London?

49:39Vogue Williams: in Offaly which is a county in the middle of Ireland and we drive into this industrial estate and I was like oh it's not very sexy we get in anyway and I was like oh my god the whole place just kind of smelt like Dettol and it was just like these beds it was the most unsexy place I'd ever been and then the people started coming in and like some of the girls were like total babes and then there was like all these different men and like they were swapping partners and stuff like that but then like you're watching all of this No, I didn't get to see too much of that We weren't able to film that obviously But then you have the wankers in the corner Who are just like Just there like perving on the other people So I was expecting What a way to spend an evening To go drive to an industrial Offaly, whatever it is Drive to an industrial estate Go in, have a wank and then just leave My god, imagine Crazy That's your weekend Then also, once you finish, you'd be a bit like, I feel a bit low.

50:40Yeah. I got to book an Uber. Like, how do you get home? Like, in the middle of nowhere.

50:45Vogue Williams: But I was expecting like this eyes wide shut thing. Like all these like glamorous people with all their like masks and stuff. But I loved all those that I got to do. Like, I just found them so fascinating. You did a documentary, I think 2017, where the opening was when you had just had a panic attack. Oh, I did one around anxiety. So explain that to me. you know what my anxiety is really good at the moment i really like you obviously get it yeah but mine's much better yeah i think that you have to find the main triggers of it and what like like i was going through a really hard time when i was in that documentary it was really really difficult and i wasn't sleeping and you know when you'd fall asleep and and then you wake up at one in the morning and then you're not sleeping and then i'm like okay that's why i'm so obsessed with sleep and then I'd know that the next day I would be awful with anxiety because I hadn't slept so I was just in this cycle.

51:36Vogue Williams: It was awful but I think that when you figure out ways to manage it like the best thing for me is like not drinking like when I drink even like I don't drink that much I don't really like the taste of alcohol but like I do like to get drunk sometimes but like that could be like three days of me being anxious then and I can't bear it. It's crazy and also having kids and then a hangover with a kid is like Have you done it yet? Yeah, I did it. It's like the worst experience I've ever had. It's because it takes you days to catch up then. So your day is catching up with your sleep. And now I just, that's a main trigger for me.

52:16Vogue Williams: And I think that like not drinking, I haven't drank that much in a long time. I think that that really helps. It's so nice to, because when you're anxious, you're like, I'm never not going to feel anxious. But when in 2017, when I was doing that, I had to, I was on beta blockers then because I had to, I couldn't manage it properly myself. And I couldn't like, you know, when you just can't see through it because you're just like, okay. And they then helped me to just relax a bit. And then I was able to go and - So you can see the wood from the trees, right? Yeah, exactly. So you can kind of go like, okay, this isn't all consuming.

52:46I get it now. So then when you go back into it, you know, there's like an escape, right?

52:50Vogue Williams: Yeah, you're not like in a blind panic, like running around. So that was a good one. That was back in the day. You have - That's when you met Spent. Yeah. And he knows loads about it Doesn't he About anxiety He doesn't even know what it is No He does now Can we also just talk about Your podcast you do with Geron quickly Because Man If you haven't listened to My Therapist Ghosted Me It is truly One of the greats We have Vogue and Amber as well I know Vogue and Amber as well And 100 % That took over from you and Spen Right And that's great as well I haven't listened to that as much That's where the rumours came from Sorry Oh really Yeah Because when Spenny and I Stopped doing our podcast together Like oh And it was because Because he wanted to go and talk about running and I didn't want to talk about running.

53:30Vogue Williams: He wanted to go and do his work. He loves talking about running. I feel so lucky that my job is to chat to my friends. Like I'm just sitting there chatting to my friends having such a laugh. And like if I go into it and I just like I've had a bad day or something like I just know that one of them is going to pick me up and I'm just going to feel in such a good mood after. Joanne McNally has sold out the Apollo nine nights in a row. She is... Which is insane. And she is one of the greatest comedians. She's very funny. But what your podcast did is gave her also the platform. Yeah, it changed both of our careers.

54:05Vogue Williams: 100%. Massively changed both of our careers. And I'd say it changed the way people thought about me as well. Because with a podcast, you're just being yourself. So people just see what you're actually like. What did they think before? I think they just kind of thought that I was a little bit, probably a little bit boring and just like, like they just, you don't really get in depth with people online. Not really. like you can show your personality to a point but not as much as you do on a podcast but like Joanne and I never thought that our podcast would do what it did and it really did change our careers and what we're doing with it and Joanne's like about to sell she still did two arenas in Dublin like it's incredible you guys have done arenas together as well yeah we did five arenas in Ireland and we did this how many people was that?

54:47Vogue Williams: 9 ,000 a night I know it was mad how do you think she's going to do in the trailers? I think she could do really well I mean it's such an amazing group Oh my god I've known for so long I just tried to pretend That I don't know Because I hate keeping secrets But she I think she'll be really good I don't know if she'll be a traitor I don't know how good Joanna is at line I don't think I don't think she'll be a traitor Okay who do you think Is going to be the traitors I think they have to choose Rob or Ramesh I think they'll be Rob I think Becca I think it feels like Ramesh Will be a traitor I think one of them Because they'll have to Screw each other over Like Alan did with Paloma They'll have to do something like that Yeah So I reckon Rommish will be a traitor I think that Richard E.

55:30Grant could be a traitor

55:31Vogue Williams: Jerry Hall is honest I know it's unbelievable John's going to be hanging out with Jerry She was married to Rupert Murdoch It's unbelievable It's so mental Miranda Hart I love her Richard E. Grant would be amazing I remember I had to interview him for Ladd Bible How was it? Was it good? Sounds like it went well And you know with Ladd Bible They're like just kind of ask And I was like So do you wash your feet in the shower Or do you let the water run over them And he was like Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, this is highbrow. So who's your hall pass? Oh, Skepta. I was not expected. No. Skepta is your hall pass.

56:06Ant.

56:06Vogue Williams: I've been invited to a wedding. I think you said ant. As in like, ant. Ant and, you were going ant. I love ant and deck. You'd have to take them both down. I'd have to take them both. You couldn't choose one. Deck would be wanking in the corner.

56:23like at that sex party

56:26Vogue Williams: I did think though Jamie because if you did you'd be like where's Dec yeah I know he's here somewhere anyway so now I've been invited to a wedding this year yeah it's kept us going it's kept us going but I'll have so what would you do what do you know I'll have just had the baby honestly you'll look great no I will I will either be in labour or in the hospital. So I'm going to miss it. Do I want a Spanish baby? Will I have it up there? Good for the passport. Maybe. But what I love is like, same with Sophie, when she generally met her hall pass, she was like, well, I guess it's happening. And I was like, I'm so confused here.

57:10This is like a hypothetical conversation.

57:12Vogue Williams: Oh no, I'm a wimp. Like, I wouldn't even say hello to him. I'd be like he'd probably find me rude because I'd be like I'd be like an immature baby I'd be like hiya no way do you think that I would have I wouldn't have the confidence to be like no no who's Spen's Hall Pass who is Spen's Hall Pass I don't know I don't know if he'd answer that question he wouldn't answer it I don't think so who's yours he's Spen's Hall Pass mine No, we were talking last night about, we were watching Chef. Is it Chef with Bradley Cooper? What's it called? Oh, Burn. It's great. Yeah, we were watching that and we were talking about Alicia Vikander and Sienna Miller.

57:57Vogue Williams: Very difficult to decide who's hotter. Yeah. They're both such rides. Great shout. So maybe one of them. Thank you. Thank you, James. Thank you. Hang on, who's your hall pass? My hall pass is Dakota Johnson. Love Dakota Johnson. Oh yeah, she's fun. She's just fun. I think I'd be like Margot Robbie, no? No, well yeah, Margot Robbie, but like... She's maybe too gorgeous. She's too hot. Or, I said Sydney Sweeney, but then that was a bit obvious apparently. Margot Robbie, someone had her as their bridesmaid. Like, Jesus Christ. There's no way. Don't do that. She'd be wearing a bag over her head. Give her the lie, bag walking up.

58:39Vogue Williams: You're not allowed to be seen at this wedding. Who's that bridesmaid wearing a bag on the head? for the whole dinner. Just soup all over the pie. I don't care. Keep the bag on, Margot. Don't you dare remove it. Soup at a wedding, though, is hard. That's all I got from that. Bogey, thank you. And listen, your book, you can go and get it now. The link is in our show description. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, Jamie. That was so fun. You're the best. It was so great. We like to end our conversation with eight quick fire questions. Are you ready? Okay, go. What's the saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

59:13Vogue Williams: Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter. Come on, let's go. I know, a good one. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? Ooh, a spange is there. I think that that's the best compliment you can get, saying that you're a good mother. What scares you most about yourself? Dying, my body dying. I'm really frightened. Are you scared of death? How are you not? Vogue is really scared of death. But I don't understand. You're all walking around like it's getting you up. Just so you know. This is not just, I'm not singled out. you're going to die I am going to die but like but also like why what is it so scary I just don't like the idea of it because I like to know what's happening and I don't obviously I don't know what's going to happen but like I actually had therapy about it because I was so insane for a while like I'd be walking around and I'd see old people and I'd be like oh Jesus and Spenny would be like what's wrong I'd be like oh they must be so worried they must be so worried at their age because a man just enjoying a glass of wine shitting himself

1:00:14Oh my god They must be so worried Oh Jesus Christ God I feel so Are you okay? Because Death is like So close And you must be thinking about it every day Can you smell it? Yeah

1:00:25Vogue Williams: Shit I wouldn't even ask my mum about it Because like she's closer than my mum I'm like She wants to pretend it's not coming Okay I'm going to be coming But sometimes I do think to myself That I wouldn't die Like if it was like a plane crash I think I'm going to survive this Oh God I listen to Enyo whenever I take off Take off and landing Enya only Because I'm like At least then I'll Die listening to Enya You listen to Enya? Yeah That's quite nice Yeah

1:00:57Vogue Williams: Did you go to my singing lessons? I did actually Yeah yeah After your dance lessons Okay When was the last time you cried? Last time I cried Oh I watched Hamnet That's full on Not just cried Yeah it's a lot Literally lost I haven't seen it Because apparently You shouldn't watch it Have you just had kids Oh my god But she's so incredible Jessie Buckley She's amazing She's insane Have you watched I Swear yet? Oh my god Just brilliant So good So good Yeah I love that What's something You can't let go of? Something I can't I'm a terrible grudge holder Oh it's bad Do you hold grudges before? Yeah yeah I'd take it to the grave I would Like if me and Svenny You're having an argument.

1:01:39Vogue Williams: You just hold on. I will die before I will say sorry. Do you know what? I'm going to hold on to this. It's a terrible try. You better apologize because I will take this to the grave. What's your guilty pleasure? I love watching rubbish TV. I love, yeah, like reality TV. I love the Kardashians. I'm terrible. I really, I've watched every single one of their shows. I love everything that they do. What turns you off? Uncleanliness. Yeah. What turns you on? Organizing. God I love organizing Organizing So much That Like organizing like a house Everything I just love organizing I was organizing my toiletries yesterday And like Putting stuff into bags For other people And like Clearing out and organizing One day I'll live It's Marie Kondo But I have so much crap So when you've organized a house That is like It's like I have storage I've loads of stuff in storage And I'm like I booked in to go there For two days in June Like because I have to get All the baby stuff out And I'm like I can't wait to get rid of all the stuff that I don't need anymore.

1:02:40So if you were to come home and Spen was organising, would that be a real...

1:02:42Vogue Williams: Oh my God, if Spen was... It's never going to happen. Have you ever seen him cook? He's a great cook. He's a very good cook. But my God, you'd rather do it yourself. Because it's so much mess. My little brother's like, I'm like, come over for dinner. And he's like, who's cooking? If I say Spen, he's like, no thanks. Because he knows he has to do the clean up after. No. So he just won't come. I remember when Spen and I did this TV show, Hunted. Oh, I remember that. He didn't have like perception of stuff And like We'd be like living in a stranger's house That we'd never met And he would like go to the fridge And like rip open the hummus And like leave it on the side And I was like He really And I was like Crazy Like We've never met these people Apart from when we When we like stood in front of their car And like hailed them down Like when he met my stepdad And my mom Like we wouldn't Like Irish people Not that we're standoffish But like We do like our own space And Spenny's like Hello Neil He's like He just rings Neil all the time He's like he's my best pal I'm like my Neil And he's like no he's my Neil I'm like okay Okay he's there What do you like most about yourself?

1:03:47Vogue Williams: I think I am a very kind person And loyal to people That's the best Okay last one What song would you like to be played at your funeral? Oh Dr. Dre's album 2001 Great shout Yeah And get sceptic to perform Oh yeah No, I don't want to see me in death. You don't want to see that? I won't look good. No, no, no. It's not seeming like that. Embarrassed in death? I'll literally start turning in the car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't have seen me in death. Spend, you couldn't give a fuck. Skeptic comes, you're like... Don't look! Vogue, you've been amazing. Thank you so much. We love you. Thank you for being great company.

1:04:26You're the best.

1:04:26Vogue Williams: Oh, it was so fun. Thank you. Okay! Come on! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do I want, do I want. The Daya, the Daya, the Daya, the Daya.

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