WILL YOUNG: I DON'T NEED PITY FOR BEING SINGLE

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0:35But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games, saints and sinners, unexpected laughs and unspoken truths, good times, hard times, and of course, family.

1:18Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue, a world premiere play only at Arena Stage. Performances start October 8th. Tickets at arenastage.org. Your sausage McBuffin with egg didn't change, your receipt did. The sausage McBuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just$5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary. Before we begin, a quick content warning that this episode contains discussion of suicide, which some listeners might find upsetting. Hello everyone, my name is Jamie Lang and this is Great Company.

2:05Well hello Jemima Well hello Jamie Good morning, good afternoon, good night Who are you saying good night as a goodbye? You don't greet someone with good night Okay welcome, welcome to the morning, welcome to the evening Good evening Good evening, good night Good night is goodbye isn't it Good evening Good evening Good lunch time You need to introduce yourself Good lunch time Good lunchtime to you all. I'm Jemima the producer. I'm Jamie Lang, the host. And this is Make Company. No one ever knows your surname. Yeah. You want to keep it that way? It's all right. People can know. What? People are asking for my surname.

2:42They want to know my middle name as well. I don't know. Oh no, because you're in the notes. It says below, doesn't it? Yeah. Well, it's Rathbone if anyone wants. So I was really desperate to know. If you must know. Jemima's dad taught me at Radley College. No, he didn't. Well, I still think he did. Damien had a teacher called Mr. Rathbone who's not my dad Yeah but he taught me So I'm convinced What's your middle name? Robin Grant, not double barreled, just Robin then Grant And James? James Has anyone ever called you James? Yeah, my mum and then when I went to my second school I thought I'd be called James because I thought it sounded more serious And then I didn't like it after a day Very exciting, today we have Will Young on the podcast Welcome back to our owls No, no, no, no, absolutely not Original wonderful listeners Okay that's Jemima's idea But today we have Will Young Will Young who you may or may not know Won Pop Idol in 2002 The first ever So there's Pop Stars first Do you remember Pop Stars?

3:38Yep Hearsay and Liberty X Yes And then the following year Pop Idol And Will was on the show He was in the final Gareth Gates It was everything that I watched at school When I was younger It was like he saved my Saturdays at my boarding school I mean he's had his ups and downs He's created some new music. He's been in films. Been in films. Plays. Plays on stage. He's done so much stuff. And I'm very excited for him to come on. I don't think until now I've realised how exciting it is. Because, you know, when you're booking guests, I'm like, yeah, fine. That book, that's locked in. And then I'm like, I love Will Young.

4:14I love Will Young. I love him. I remember in year, I must have been year five or year six, our pencils, we like made little flags for if we were like Gareth or Will. Wow. Yeah, I really remember that was like a huge and then here's so Evergreen the best key change ever. I'm gonna take this moment and make it last forever. Yeah, are you gonna sing Tim today? I'm gonna take my Okay, I'm not gonna sing. Okay, listen. Yeah, you are. You're definitely gonna sing it. I'll probably sing. Okay, should we get on the podcast? Should we get on with the podcast? Fine. Okay, if you haven't subscribed to our wonderful show yet, please do.

4:51That makes the world a difference to us. Just click that follow button, the subscribe button and get ready for this amazing episode of Great Company with Will Young.

5:02Nominated for an Olivia Award. Yeah, I just tell people I want it. Do that. No one chance. I'm going to say that again. Yeah, you won an Olivia Award. I was so chuffed. I was so chuffed. I keep it in the loo. Yeah. Hello, I'm Will Young and I'm great company.

5:23I grew up with you. So for me, you're kind of like, in some way, a kind of superhero. I'm your pal. When you're in that space and you're the height of this fame and everyone wants a piece of you, were you just kind of just, did you go a bit wild at times? There were some amazing things. I mean, like, I went for lunch with the Queen. I went for lunch at Buckingham Palace with the Queen. No, you didn't. Yeah, and I did this gig the other day and this guy came up to me he was like we've met before and i was like okay and he goes i was this is really moving by the way because i went for lunch with the queen and it was eight of us and i was really nervous and all a lot of the the butlers people working there were gay men so and i'd just come out and it was quite a big thing then um not you didn't often get a male pop star at the beginning of their career coming out it just wasn't big and so they were coming up to me in secret and going and one of them came up and went thank you so much and they obviously they're not allowed to talk to you they're not allowed to do and you know obviously they weren't allowed to do that and then i went off to the loo and another one was like thank you so much i mean i could cry it was amazing so i was talking about this and then i went to this thing and the but this butler was working there it was some like massive party and they they i don't do these private parties the whole time i haven't done a couple recently And he was like, I was the butler who served you at Buckingham Palace.

6:49I worked there for 35 years. And I was like, I can't believe it. I said, I was just talking about you yesterday. I know, it was madness. And then he said, I stole your place name afterwards. He was like, you're the only person I stole his place name. And I said, Darren, I want that back. I said, Darren, you're a thief. Just as you were about to get emotional. Just as you were about to get emotional. That's from the human game. I know, human. But it was just. That is amazing. And I'd forgotten that. How did I forget that? But do you realise the impact that you have had? I didn't. I want you to know this.

7:25I'm sure you do, but I just also want to say it from my point of view. First conversation we had, you were my television. You were my saviour on Saturday nights from this school. So nice. You really were. And that's just a little boy who's just at school. Not only are you then people who are going through breakups, or people who are having a hard day, or people who families are going to, or businesses are failing and they play your songs and you cheer them up. It's lovely. Or not only that, even further than that, being someone, being a beacon of light and support for someone who's struggling with their sexuality and they, you know, and they're saying, thank you for doing it.

7:59You have done that. Yeah, it's lovely. It's really, this guy came up to me. This guy came up to me. I think I don't think about those things because You really should. It's partly self-effacing and partly...

8:15um a worry from the beginning of becoming big-headed i think you know so i wouldn't think about things and i think probably most people in my position don't think about those things but it's lovely when you do hear there was a professor that came up to me in oxford and he had married his husband and it was just so beautiful you know and he was like thank you so much he said like when you came out me and my partner they'd been together since i mean he was like really like proper professor you know um he had a toweling tie and uh i just gave him a hug i was just like that's i just thank you you know and i i think i forget because we've come on so far i mean we're fucking out it's come on i mean jesus i know come on so far of course how brilliant but i've i forget how important it was for for lots of people then um i remember when i came out elton and David sent me flowers saying thank you.

9:14But also you're, I think you were 25 or 24. I was 22. You were 22 when you came out. Or maybe 23, yeah. And you're a pop star. And, you know, again, maybe I'm phrasing it wrong, but you're sort of seen as this sort of sexy young man and then coming out as gay. That must be a nerve-wracking thing because it's like, okay, hang on, this time is different. So it was back, you know. Well, you couldn't be. I was sort of asexualised because you couldn't be sexual as a gay man. Because if you're as sexual as a gay man, you're seen as camp. If you're sexual as a straight man, you're seen as virile. You know, a gay man takes his top off and you're seen as flouncing around.

9:57It doesn't matter how muscly the gay guy is. And it's, you know, whereas a straight pop star takes his top off. Let's say Justin Bieber, I'm just using myself. Everyone's like, so to put someone like Jake Shears, who's got the most incredible body against Justin Bieber, for example, people look at Jake Shears and be like, oh, there he is, top off again. Justin Bieber would be like, oh, there we go. Yeah. So it was so difficult to be sexual. I was sort of like neutralised. So then how do you make the decision to come out? Because that's a massive decision. I went more for humour, to be honest. So like I did a swimming video for a song called Friday's Child.

10:37I've got, I wish I had those abs. I mean, I had a good six pack. You know what I mean? I mean, it was a fucking good six pack. It was almost an eight pack, but I'm learning to swim. So I'm in speedos, oiled up with a six pack, but I'm learning to swim with kids who are aged five. So that was the way I thought, well, I can't be sexual because at that stage I couldn't dance with a male partner. in a video. I couldn't have a love story with a male partner. That just wasn't allowed. They wouldn't have allowed it. I mean, even in 2010 or 2009, I did a video and at one point I danced with a male mannequin and the record company tried to pull it.

11:16Get out of here. No. Tried to get it out of the video. So that's how difficult it was. So I thought, well, I can't be sexual. I can't be... It's that authentic thing, isn't it? And it was hard, but also I was like, well, that's the card I've been dealt. That's where we're at in society at the moment. So I'll just have a laugh with it. You know, and luckily found these brilliant directors that could, you know, well, why don't we do this instead? So it was really clever. Or did a Top Gun video, which is kind of homoerotic. I remember. Yeah, so it was like you could have, I think there were ways.

11:45And you were driven by success anyway. And I don't think. Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, I knew what I was dealing with. You were just like, fine, this is it. I knew what I was dealing with. People don't want to. It was like. So you just got it. You were just like, right, this is the time. I'm like, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to sell any albums. I just understood it. And I didn't want to not sell albums. but I didn't want to not be honest. So I thought, well, listen, I get it. People don't want to see two men kissing. Are you a sexual person? Yeah, I love sex. I've rediscovered it again. I had a bit of a drought, but we all do.

12:17Do you have droughts in relationship? I had a bit of a drought, but I think we have it. You had a drought, yeah. Libido's back. Libido's back. So you had a drought and now it's back. Yeah, libido's back. Fully erect. Midnight. Yeah, at midnight Midnight is the song on your new album Yeah And it's about being single in 40s and being Overweight A little bit That's what Jemima is She says othered Oh yeah, othered Yeah, othered Yeah How was it like writing the new album? Did you fall in love with that one? That one I loved I really loved that Yeah That was like a new discovery Of You do get slightly othered as you get older Funny enough What do you mean by that?

12:59I mean, I think people just sort of, I looked at someone yesterday as he crossed in front of my car thinking, hurry up. I want to get on. And after I thought that, I thought he looked a bit old. And then I realized he was probably the same age as me. No, I know. It's weird. Isn't that terrifying? It's weird. I mean, I like the way I look. You look great. Yeah, I think I look. You look really good. I like the way I look. and but I think you can suddenly forget and particularly when you go gray you know that's weird because you look that ages you and you do you get put in a different sort of category I don't think you you know you're not necessarily seen as sexual and I don't know I mean I know I'm not 80 but it's just I don't think I'd realized that I'd maybe sort of slightly um not given up but like a bit like okay well that's it now that kind of thing and I I didn't realise that and I think I had slightly been in a bit of a holding pattern being single in your 40s friends and relationships and I think a lot of people listening probably think is it hard you don't get asked to things when you're single you don't get asked to things nothing if you're single you don't get asked to things like what well you're just like you're difficult because it's all couples so you don't get asked to things it's really bizarre don't get asked on holidays don't get asked to dinners to go up because you're the odd one you're the odd one you're the odd one and also people think that you're unhappy being single and I'm like I mean like I love it well I love it but also like you know I think there's like a real thing of like if you're single like I mean love my aunt mentioned earlier but you know I know my aunt would be like she'll literally just be like almost whisper it anyone anyone anyone Anyone?

14:52No. And she'll answer the question for herself before I've answered. Anyone? Anyone? No. No. Okay. Do you want tea? Do you know what I mean? My friend did the other day. Is there anyone? And they feel a bit sorry for you. So like someone did it to me the other day. And I'm going to tell you this. They're not having a good time in their relationship. Let's put it that way. They're not having a good time. But I could tell like they slightly felt sorry for me. And I was like, you're feeling sorry for me being single? Your relationship is fucked. But, you know, because they've got the car and the kid and the thing, it's like, it's okay because we can tick that off to the wider world.

15:30But I'm like, I do not want that. Like, I would be single for the rest of my life. I do not want that. So then what do you say to someone who's listening who is single and going like, oh, God, my life is not ticked? Well, it's just like, it's not the answer. Because there's a few things. One, someone said to me once, there's nothing more lonely than being in the wrong relationship. That is the loneliest place to be in the world. It's awful. And two, it can, who are you trying to prove it to? You know, so like I love my aunt and I know why she says it. And also I do think it's lovely to have companionship and have a partner.

16:08But I also know probably over 50 % of people I know in relationships are not having functional ones. I could name you. I know them over there they haven't had sex for two years them over there they're being awful with their kids so like it's a society thing it's like this is how you should be you've got to I mean obviously we all know the real thing is you've got to learn to be happy with yourself but I do think and that's you know that's taken me a long time but I do think when you meet your ally I'm sure you have this with your wife it's a really lovely thing isn't it it's a lovely thing you've got your pal and you can get naked and have sex with him and it's like who doesn't want that you've got your pal and you can shag him and you can shag him at the same time you can shag him give him kisses on the neck yeah

17:02what was your experience at school because you went at an early age you said you were sporty did you enjoy it I didn't enjoy when we went really young as in me and my brother because we were twins. I mean, I was lucky to have a twin. I learned to swim in the school pool. My grandparents lived just off. I mean, we talk about privilege. I mean, get ready for this fucking sentence. My grandparents lived just off the golf course of the school. I mean. That was a prep school as well. That was a prep school. Prep school. Eight to 13 year olds. Let's just drop that in there. Do you know what I mean? So, I mean, it was madness.

17:44I mean, it was madness. But so what was weird was I have home video of us on that golf course as kids before we even went there. So for us, it was like second home, like literally like we'd go there in the summer, use the pool. And then I got there and then it was like, oh, fuck. And people, teachers that I knew because they were friends of, you know, my family were like monsters. And it was really weird because I was like, just, it was just my experience of it was a very physically abusive place. You know, kids thrown across the, you know, kids thrown across the room, heads smashed into radiators, thrown down the stairs, kicked in the stomach.

18:30You know, we were watched in the showers, watched in the baths. You know, I know some kids that were sexually abused. I wasn't. and it was a very, very, and I think Charles Spencer talked with the climate of violence recently in his prep school, his private school experience and it was a climate of violence. I mean, it was astonishing. I mean, and some teachers would go off and then they'd drink, you know, so then they'd come back and they'd be a bit drunk because obviously they'd go off at lunchtime and come back and then they'd be even more violent. You know, it was terrifying. You couldn't get away.

19:08Did you find it quite hard to talk about that for a long time? I never spoke about it. Yeah, because you also picture, you say, my experience. Because you wanted to label it on yourself. You're almost nervous to say. I also have to say that legally. Oh, okay, fine. That makes sense. No, because also I've tried to bring a suit against the school, but the people dropped. It's been really interesting having an insight into bringing legalities against the place for my perceived abuse. That's the language again. And how that makes you feel and how victim blaming can come into play very quickly. It's given me a whole new insight into how hard it is for people of all areas of abuse, what they fucking have to go through.

20:02And I've done a lot of therapy. And so it doesn't really take me down that much. But I mean. Break it down for me. Well, imagine. Well, first of all, school reaching out, PR from the school reached out to my manager and was like, can we stop talking about this? Because it's really affecting. It's really upsetting the parents. And my manager was like, oh, no. I was like, what? I was like, what? So I need to feel bad because, you know, because that's it. They're trying to shut me out. Trying to shut me out. So that was a mistake. What does that make you feel though as well? Because. I was just like, you've made a huge mistake.

20:42I basically said to the school, I will never stop talking about this. Ever. Yeah. You know, and one of the huge reasons that my brother's mental health was so bad and he killed himself was because of what happened to him at school. Really? Yeah. So, and also friends of mine, I know they've told me since what's happened to them. And we were friends, you know, almost 40 years ago. I didn't know that happened to them. So I, because I, and we, you know, we've talked about privilege. I am so lucky because I was really ill physically and mentally, emotionally. And I managed to have the capital to get help that I needed and still do, to be honest.

21:28But lots of people don't have that. So the way I approach when I talk about what's happened at that school, weirdly, my anger is not just for me, but it's for all those other poor people whose lives have been destroyed forever. You know, forever. and it's just awful that's what happens for all sorts of people like they've been let down in childhood they've been you know experienced some sort of abuse and neglect and it's destroyed their lives and that's just awful and it hasn't really ever blown up as big as it should really that whole system of boarding schools and how corporal punishment was still allowed way until the 90s because of the government and you know all these weird things so um and then breaking it down it's very hard when you get a law firm that goes we i don't think we're going to take on your case and you've gone through the psych and i've gone through the psychiatrist appointments for what reason i just didn't think they could win it you know and the school never replied to a letter i haven't told anyone this but i think it's important because i hope if someone's listening they get to hear how difficult it is when you want to get recompense for you know past perceived abuses um you know because you write a letter to the people whoever it is in my case it was a school they didn't reply they never replied over a year and legally they didn't have to because they just chose to ignore it that's fine they probably thought he's his case is quite tenuous so he'll go away but the big problem they made was that they tried to shut me up and i'm really contrary and really stubborn so you You were like, hang on a second.

23:15I said to them, I'm never going to shut up about this ever. Like literally ever. Even the other day, by the way, someone came up to a friend of mine and said, when will Will stop talking about abuse at school? And I was like, oh my God, I can't. Because you can't handle hearing about experiences. You want me to shut up. So the reason I do it is not really, you know, to create this sort of narrative of like, this is what happened in my life. I've got lots of other lovely things going on. You know, it's not my choice to go like, oh, that's what happened to me. And I know I've got a lovely life, but it's to give other people permission to and to recognize and to validate it.

23:58That's a great way. Yeah. And to validate it for others and go, yeah, that's shit. That should never have happened. Forget the institution. Could have been in the home. Yeah. Could have been in the job, could have been anywhere. Forget the institute could be in a relationship. It's not right. It's just not right. Well, that's a great way to look at it because they always, I think there are certain scenarios with this. When you go against a relationship, a business, a school, whatever it is. And I suppose if your aim is to get revenge, there's always that saying that goes up, which is seeking revenge is like drinking a poison and wanting the other person to die.

24:33It doesn't heal you. It doesn't do anything. So if you're doing it for the others, that is a great way to, because you, you'll never, unfortunately, as we both know with these scenarios, it doesn't help it. No. And I'll always have a sort of gaping hole in me of sort of, you know, wanting something that I didn't, didn't get in that experience. And I recognize that I've done enough, you know, bloody work on myself to recognize that. but you're right and interestingly when i got dropped i it was like a bit of a gift actually dropped by the law firm yeah i was like oh good i said i'm tired a bit i was like i said it to myself and the dog um domino i was like domino domino's like why are you talking to me i just want food i said don't talk back no domino just domino dom is in the dog house because he's just shat all over the sizal carpet.

25:29Again. Do you know what I mean? Again. And you can't clean a sizal carpet. It's out. You can't. That's gone. It's gone. That is gone. And he knows it. Yeah, yeah. No, I released the anger. That's what was really nice. I was like, you know what? I'm going to release this anger because you've got to have quite a lot of fight. It's driven me in my life quite a lot. That was your home. So you grew up going there. You knew all the teachers. You know, that is very childhood to you. It's family. It's family, right? And so the moment then when you want to speak out against your family, that is a hard moment because we've all had things in our lives where parents have done something wrong or whatever.

26:08Oh, that, yeah. And to speak out, that must be able to. So what was the moment when you finally said? That's created big problems. Has it? Big problems, yeah. It's created big problems because we had such family ties to the school as well. Yeah. You know, and that's a shame. but and also like one you know one of the teachers who was horrible and awful it's like friends with my family but but you know some of them have come around and some of them haven't and i'm sure they don't like it when i talk about it but that's that's more on them and you've got to realize that actually that's on them and make it wider than than my family if i'm saying something I mean, my parents are actually amazing because they've got to deal with the guilt.

26:57They didn't know it. They've got to deal with their own anger. They've got to deal with all that. But that's not me. That's not for me to deal with. That's their emotion. So whenever we worry about like how other people are going to react, it's like let them have their reactions. Do you know what I mean? I can only control my own reactions, you know, try and monitor my own behavior, my own emotions. Let them have their own. so like yeah it must be really difficult for my dad i know it's really difficult for my dad to hear what happened to his sons and also that's for him to handle he's an adult you know so you you take away you can't take on everyone's emotions you have to release yourself you'd never do anything would you but you don't do anything but you also you can't hang on to blame i don't blame my parents and you know widen it out again from you know we can all get shit on our parents when we can yeah of course we can like no one's perfect as parents but you want you don't want to live in you don't don't make that your story for the whole of your life like my mom never did this so this is why i'm like that it's like that's your choice to make that your story don't hang on to that because that's just going to make you ill

28:28Upwork.com.

28:34ZinnNNORK.com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason. But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. You're invited to spend an evening on Fremont Avenue. For generations, this house has been home to soulful music, good food, and cutthroat card games.

29:18Saints and sinners. Unexpected laughs and unspoken truths. Good times, hard times, and of course, family. Always family. So pull up a chair and join us at Fremont Avenue. A world premiere play only at Arena Stage.

29:44You mentioned before, you've experienced awful grief. And, you know, you mentioned that your brother took his own life. I mean, when you're dealing with anger and then something like that happens, how do you navigate your way through life? No, weirdly, like grief, I'm quite good with. I feel like I must have been an old Grecian woman in a past life that just wanted to like smash plates. You know, the wailing, the gnashing of teeth. Do you know what I mean? Like dressed in a black shawl. Like I'm totally down with that. I'm down with like public displays of grief. I want to gnash, you know, I'm the Bacchae.

30:21I'm the chorus. I'm a Grecian tragedy. So I can deal with grief. I'm anger I find harder yeah because you internalize it I think yeah I've internalized it don't be angry you're never angry yeah you know it's so interesting actually so when I did who do you think you are I know we can't talk about it there's one bit when I did cry and I got to watch it recently and you know what so I start crying and then I do this really English thing and I work because because because I act so I love watching it because I was I've got to bring that into something because it is fucking insane i go like so i start crying and i go no no yeah and then i sort of went no i mean it's it's it's it's amazing yeah i mean it's lovely i'm sorry so i like something awful i've just found out and i go no i mean it's amazing lovely yeah i'm sorry and then i apologize for crying i'm like it couldn't be more english do you know what i I mean, it's so, I was like, I need to show this to my therapist.

31:21Like that is me in a nutshell. It was just so, it was just. Yeah. Cause you, you apologize for it because we're so closed up all the time that we don't, that you don't want to release it. And then when you do release it, you're like, oh God, I've embarrassed everyone here. I'm so sorry. Yeah. And there's another bit like, and what happened to him? And the guy goes, well, it didn't end well. And I go, oh, cut the head off. Yes. And I was like, that is the most reserved. If an American was watching that, going like, that's how British people talk to each other. each other. And I think then like the historian said something like, yes, not a good ending.

31:52I mean, it's like so like understated. Everything's understated. It's like so repressed. Not a good ending. They chop their head off. Not a good ending. Do you think though, because you had your play Song From Far Away, which was a one man play about grief. Yes. And do you think that doing something like that, because I imagine with you and this is i'm just spitballing here but i imagine when you play a character you really go into it and you really understand the character and you really get to know the character and so then doing a play like that about grief maybe it makes you understand it much more and able to handle it much more i've i would i actually weirdly i'm sort of like i find it i actually kind of put myself aside doing roles um and and i i did i was very very lucky and i i only mentioned him because he was so nice to me so i'm not mentioning him as a name drop i'm literally mentioning because i've worked with him and he was so nice and the advice he gave me and i did a film with bob hoskins and he said don't take the character home with you he was like you can't do that um what do you mean by that explain something because he'd done a film i can't remember which one it was and he brought the character home with him and it fucked him up really yeah so so so i never forgot it so i so like before any acting job like i'll have a shower beforehand and i'll have a shower immediately afterwards if it's the fit if it's theater to wash yourself away yeah And also I don't sort of, I sort of, I take myself out of it actually and just like surrender to the script.

33:32And so even though that was a play about grief, I didn't ever sit, I actually deliberately didn't let myself equate it to my, and it was about a dead brother. I didn't equate it to my brother because it wasn't the same story. and also I thought if I want to emotionally like, I don't need to equate it to get to the emotions, weirdly. Do you see what I mean? Some people do, you know, but I didn't. So every night I'd cry, but it was just because the story was so sad, but it wasn't because I was letting myself link it to my brother. I just found the story so sad. If I use... That's amazing, that's amazing sort of emotional strength from you not to.

34:16Yeah. Because otherwise that crosses over. And I think it would fuck me up. Yeah, because then I'd be like, it would be too much. You know, that's just too. Some people can do it, but I can't. I'm not emotionally, I don't, I don't, I'm not strong enough to be able to. It's too dangerous for me to do that. It's funny because you have this such emotional inner strength, but actually you're also really vulnerable at the same time. And it's funny you talk about that very British thing because, and I hope I'm not misquoting here. And again, if you don't want to talk about it, it's absolutely fine. But I heard that when the police came to your house to say that your brother had committed suicide.

34:53I said I've just done his washing or his ironing. Yeah. It's like a film. Isn't that funny? But I think we have film moments in our life when things like that happen. Because you kind of go into shock as well.

35:09So we do do and say things that are like, no cinema is as good as real life. Do you know what I mean? So when these things happen, be them like amazing moments of, you know, huge success, huge joy, huge, just like, I can't believe this is happening, you know, to like the deepest, saddest moments and you've been dumped and your heart's bleeding and you just, those are film moments. yeah i mean i was a bit pissed off because i'd spent quite a lot of time on that ironing the other really funny thing is i just got an enormous dog cage yeah for my two pitbulls that i'd rescued um but they'd broken out of the cage so there was just this and by the way the cage was the size of this whole space yeah in my front room it looked like a sex cage so the police turned up and and then because the next thing i said was that's not a sex cage that's for the dogs and they kind of looked at me like is it have you always used humor sex cages yes have you always used sex cages anything once amazon sprung up have you there's a lot of things i i relate to in so many ways using humor to to to get through really difficult times i think humor can be an avoidance but i also think it's an amazing resource and i also think like take brilliant cabaret like amazing cabaret amazing funny political social cabaret is joyous and funny and then the saddest most darkest thing in the world yeah flips on a knife edge you know and when i did cabaret i learned that nominated for olivia award yeah I just tell people I want it.

36:57Do that. No one checks. I'm going to say that again. Yeah. You won an Olivia award. I was so chuffed. I was so chuffed. I keep it in the loo. Yeah. No one checks. No one checks. And apparently the actor Michael Gamble used to just literally in every interview just make up a different thing. He'd go, oh, well, when I trained at the Royal Ballet. I mean, never trained at the Royal Ballet. No one checked. No, but so I think I learned So I think humour you can use I did a talk And it was because I got a I got an honorary doctorate At Exeter University Yeah, so I gave this talk Okay Yeah But you went to Exeter And I went to Exeter Yeah Are you liking my research?

37:40Is this very good? It's not even It's not there No, it's just Rhymer writes certain things That's so impressive Yeah, yeah That is impressive Don't worry I know everything about you Do you? You poor man. But I gave this speech, but also like, I don't want to sit there and I'm not going to sit there and talk for 15 minutes about how I had a breakdown and like, you know, wanted to kill myself. I mean, that's just, it's really sad and it's powerful. It's also quite boring after a while. Sorry, I mean, it does get boring. Like imagine you're at a dinner party. Whereas if I also talk about mental health, talk about vulnerabilities and then inject a bit of humour into it and go, it's all right.

38:20It doesn't all have to be doom and gloom. Doom and gloom the whole time. You know what I mean? Because it doesn't, even when you're in your deepest, I think humour can be an unbelievable resource. Yeah. Because even if you're at your deepest, you know, if you spot something and you think, God, that's quite funny. So imagine you're like really depressed and then you see something and you think, why is that person walking so weirdly? It sort of brings you out. It was Oscar Wilde who said when he was on his deathbed, looked at his curtains, which he hated and said, one of us must go. It's just funny.

38:52It's great, yeah. It's just always bringing into those dark moments you kind of have to. And I don't know if that's a British thing, but I think it's a really great British attribute. Yeah. I don't want to lean into this topic anymore, but when something... I don't know why I'm in this stage of my life and I don't know why I am, but I, for some reason, have been just thinking about death for some reason. And I don't know why I have, but I just have. losing a brother and I love I have I have two brothers one's a full brother one's a half brother but I love them equally I don't know what I would I don't know what I would do because I don't so weirdly and I will come to answer that question but I think death by the way anxiety is not talked about nothing's really interesting so we either have like what we're going to do if I lose that person or it's like what's going to happen to me like you know I kind of flirt with both sometimes and it's terrifying they're both terrifying yeah And then it can go to existentialism.

39:48It's like, what the fuck is, you know. And I get furious because I'm like, I'm just furious that I have to die. Because I think I'll just be cross on my deathbed going like, but I don't want to. Do you know what I mean? It's like someone going, eat that. And I'm like, but I don't want to eat it. You know, that's the way I see death. I'm like, but I don't want to die. It's exactly that. And I miss my friends. Who do I talk to? Yeah. And who am I going to text going, oh my God, you never believe. You know what I mean? Like, that's just really unfair. So I'm like more like irate and a bit stroppy about death, but it can move into like existential terror.

40:22But weirdly with losing people, I don't, and I don't know if it's just the way my brain has made it work for me, but I don't really see them as gone. Really? Yeah. That's really interesting. Can you, you can feel. yeah I just sort of think and I think there was and I could murder a quote now but it's something like well they've just left the room you know so I'm like well okay my brother Rupert's just left the room or my grandmother's left the room I mean she could be a bit of a pain to be honest but you know like or my uncle you know gorgeous uncle or friend you know so I just I just don't see them as gone because their spirit is still there that's how i maybe that's just how i've made it work for myself but i just think well their spirit's still there i mean physically they've gone but like rupert's essence is still everywhere you know what i mean you you it feels like you had this like this amazing i can the way you talk about people as well and you obviously have so much love to to give from yourself you love giving out love yeah I mean I also do hate people as well Do you?

41:40Yeah Because I'm an introvert Are you? Yeah So I mean like I need to sit in a room For about two days If I've been around people So what are you like in relationships? Dreadful Really? I am dating someone quite nice at the moment Which is by the way A new experience for me What are they nice or dating? Both No it's because I have a very closed heart I have a very closed heart in relationships probably because of abandonment and all that shit. So I just, it's just not something that's been a pleasure for me at all. The sex has been nice, but you know, like it's just not, it's just not been a pleasure.

42:18I don't know how to do it. Give me a bloody, give me something to be successful at. You can do it. Knock it out of the park. I don't mind. No problem at all. Oh, you nervous about doing a monologue. Easy. I'll learn it in a week. It's fine. Do you know what I mean? But give me a, that's my kryptonite. Right. It's a relationship. Because your heart is enclosed. Yeah, my heart's been closed. But I think, I think my heart is opening. And that's a new experience for me, which is quite nice, age 45. So who is this new person? Well, I'm not going to talk about it because it's very new. But what's nice is, what's nice is at least my heart's open.

42:57And I'm actually enjoying dating for the first time. I've never enjoyed dating. I mean, like you met your gorgeous wife. I'm sure there were moments and things. For me, even here, you know, it would be, I go into a freeze. I'm like, you know, so if my therapist says, think of dating, I literally go, and he goes, your lips curl. I was pulling in his face. Looks like you're doing a poo. I go into a freeze. I'm like, it's just terrifying for me. But if you say like, go and do this, that's not terrifying. I mean, you're going to sing in front of all these people. It's not terrifying. Do you see sort of vulnerability in that space, in that space of love weakness?

43:38I don't know if I've fully worked out. What I do know is that I love being, I thrive in, that was my tummy. Was that me or you? I think that was my tummy. Okay. I thrive in parameters and I thrive in, and I don't know if that's because of being institutionalized. I love parameters, like brilliant work parameters, know what I'm doing. If something doesn't have parameters and people aren't in their roles, I get a bit more, I don't feel as safe. Really? Yeah. I think I was quite institutionalized, you know, growing up. Yeah. So I'm much better if it's like, this is what we're doing. This is what everyone's doing here today.

44:27I'm really good in like institutions or anything that's just got like this has got parameters today. Yeah. Like if I'm just sort of floating around, not very good. But vulnerability, if I can be vulnerable in a safe space, then that's me at my like peak. I'm like maxed out. You know, I've got super diesel, not just diesel. And I just feel amazing. so I know that works for me I just haven't perhaps found that in a relationship I don't know if that answers your question no it does answer but also relationships are messy and humans are messy and so therefore that feels not good because it's too oh god I can't it sort of comes like friends I'm not good with that why are you not good you're not good with the friends you just realised that I only realised that recently then you have to meet their friends what if you don't like them but is it more that you're worried that you don't like them or they're not going to like you because that's the abandonment coming out it could be that I'm quite a shy person so all that side of dating I'm sure other people will relate some people love it my friend he's out the whole time he lives off being around people and new people I can't do that have you ever been in love?

45:48I think I was in love with one boyfriend yeah it might have been infatuation so you've never had your heart broken oh no no no that no that's that's true he did break my heart yeah yeah or it broke my heart the relationship you say you're an introvert but i broke my heart broke when also you i will tell you what broke my heart and this is is when my dog got run over that broke my heart really yeah that is like that is definite heart I'll never get over it and I saw it it was heartbreak so what happened? she got run over my electric car in front of you? yeah it was awful that's the most heartbreaking thing that's ever happened to me my baby I know they always say when a pet dies a little bit of you dies as well it's impossible to get it back I'll never get it back I can't even spread the ashes really?

46:41no I can't they're just on my shelf I know I know it's heartbreaking I mean that is heartbreaking I could cry but it is heartbreaking isn't it heartbreaking oh my god I know heartbreaking my Nelly how old was Nelly I think she was like six it was really funny because the guy the guy I mean it wasn't funny but the guy got out and he was like it's not my fault it's not my fault because I went into like I went I don't need you here go away that's what I said to him he was like it's not my fault she ran out I went I don't need you here go away Your alter ego came in again And he looked at me And he was like I just got in the car and drove off It's like really quiet Go away We um We both did Strictly Come Dancing Oh yeah And I got injured You got injured So you And I was kind of injured I was thinking So I could have gone back And I heard this Is that you I mean I was mentally injured You wished And we both had Karen Oh my god Did you have Karen as well We both had Karen And I heard that you said in an interview that you wish you'd been injured because then it would have been taken away.

47:50Yes, I wish I didn't. I even thought about it, like injuring my leg. But what happened at that time? I was just so, I was unwell, you know, I shouldn't have been working, shouldn't have been doing it. Depressed, anxious? Anxious, and I had a really bad anxiety disorder. I mean, like major agoraphobia. Really? Yeah, dissociation. sort of I've had to say depersonalisation oh that's awful have you had that so what happened with you so one day I just suddenly was sitting down and I didn't recognise for me it was just very it was depersonalisation and I didn't recognise the person I knew who the person I was sitting opposite was but I didn't know wow literally like that like a twitch and I was like I know it's Faye she was my manager I've been my manager for ages.

48:40But I knew who she was. So it's like that whole part. I thought I'd gone mad. And then I couldn't recognise myself in the mirror. So I'd look in the mirror, but I didn't know. I knew who it was me, but I didn't. It was just crazy. Well, how do you do strictly? I tried to pull out. I tried to not do it. But I sort of got forced to do it. Not by the team, but, you know, by my managers at the time. I don't have that management anymore. So, you know, I did try and look after myself. But... because the press reported badly they said that you know you were awful weak or pathetic or this it was awful awful awful and i think there was stuff going on actually as well it was sort of they were pushing stories i think there were stories being pushed because there was other stories they wanted to not be happening because i just had such bad anxiety and i think people who have anxiety and also i feel it very physically people get thought i don't get caught in thought loops and things like that i feel it very physically um so it just it's a or it's like an illness so but i also have a like huge desire for life because i think life's amazing i think like life the tiny things in life are amazing i just think life is amazing getting a train like i love getting on trains you know it's not the sort of big like here i am on I'm on a desert island.

50:02It's actually the things like, I love getting on a train and having a Mark's Spencer sandwich. That to me is just heaven. You know what I mean? I like those moments because it's the moment to rest and not think about stuff and just watch. So it's really difficult when you've got anxiety, which is physically and emotionally taking you away from life when you think it's amazing. And that's why. But when I rang up the Samaritans. You rang up the Samaritans? Yeah, I rang up the Samaritans. Because you were so afraid. I was still working and I was having to go out on press night for a musical called Strictly Boreham.

50:39And they changed like five of my songs two days before. I mean, it was like high stress. It was high stress. But anyway, and I, and because I was highly stressed anyway, that's just going to tip me over the edge. And I ran up to the Samaritans literally 15 minutes before press night. and she was she was like i said oh you know i'm feeling very suicidal but i'm feeling like it's becoming moving from suicidal ideation to like intention you know that's when you that's when you have to like do something about it becomes like a tractor beam so because i'd already done a lot of work at that stage i thought okay i recognize this sign this is not a good sign so to anyone's listening like suicidal ideation is a sort of it's a symptom again because you you know, your brain's going, what do I do?

51:29I don't know. I'll just kill myself. How do I get out of this pain? How do I get out of this? And then she asked me the question, are you tired of life or are you tired of anxiety? I thought it was such a good question. That is a great question. And I said, well, actually, I'm not tired of life. I love life. I'm just tired of anxiety. You know, really tired of it. Yeah. So I never forgot that question. So if anyone is ever struggling, the Samaritans are amazing. She was great. Yeah. But, you know, it was just a sign of how I felt so helpless. I just didn't know what to do. You don't know what to do.

52:04No, it's out of your control. And you don't think it's going to end. And the depersonalization was just... I mean, I thought I had gone mad. I actually thought I had gone mad. Well, I'm so sorry. Yeah. I'm so glad you are here. Yes, me too. Yeah, I really am glad. I know. It would have been awful, wouldn't it? It would have been awful. But I think it's the reason I talk about suicide ideation or suicide is because I think there's a shame around it as well. And actually, you know, I never had suicidal thoughts before I was maybe up to my 30s. The idea literally wasn't just not that person. And it came out of left field.

52:44So it wasn't like it was switch boom. So it wasn't like, you know, I was so I just thought, well, how would that ever happen? and I think people are very, can be a bit shaming about it. And so that's why I like to talk about it. And also suicidal ideations are just, can be just a symptom. Like try not to let it freak you out, you know, because it can't be a bit freaky and you think, God, suddenly I'm thinking about this. Why am I thinking about this? Why am I thinking about this? Yeah. It can just be a symptom.

53:13Do you know what I find amazing about you, Will, is that you say you're an introvert, but then you clearly have this incredible love for stage. Yeah. Love it. You're 22 years old and you decide to sign up to Pop Idol and go and do that. You're 22 and you're an introvert, but yet you go on the world stage pretty much. Because Pop Idol, I don't know how many views, 15 million views? Something wild like that. Yeah, it was, I think, about that. How do you then? Because lots of performers are, I think. Lots of performers are. Like you're a different person when you're on stage. so like even last night doing this so I'll tell you this funny I was going to tell you so I get booked for this gig sometimes you get booked for corporates you know and they pay a lot of money and I was like brilliant because I'm doing up a house so I need the money and I do need the cash I found damp in my whole house so it's like hallelujah the woman who booked me this is so funny the woman that booked me comes up and I was like oh can I just have a cigarette she was like yeah I'll come with you and she was like oh she goes I'm really worried I said oh what are you worried about she goes I'm worried I've booked the wrong act and I was like I was like oh as in like what me she went yeah I just don't know if people she goes we had blue last year and she goes people loved them just loved them and I'm writing this comedy series I'm writing a comedy series for radio I mean hopefully they love it about what it is to be a pop star in your 40s because this is the kind of shit that happens And she was like, oh, we had Blue last year.

54:49They were brilliant. And people just love them. But she goes, I just hope people are excited. So what did you respond? You weren't British again. Oh, I hope they are too. I said, you booked me? Yeah. She goes, I'm a big fan. And I said, but you know that what I do is like, you know, it's kind of like jazzy, solely me. It's not our beach. It's me and a piano. You know, yeah. She goes, I just hope people, you know, are excited and they're not too drunk. I was like, fucking hell. Just before I go on stage. This is ideal. Just before I go on stage. So you go on stage, what happens? Oh, they're all drunk.

55:27They're all drunk as thing. It's shit. Doesn't matter though. I don't mind. It was so funny. I don't even think she'd realise that's what was so funny. I don't even think she'd realise. Because she was just nervous for herself. So that's fine. But I was like, wow. But I did this reality show for many years, right? Made in Chelsea. when I was doing it and partly after I left doing it I was I wanted to reject my roots I want to be more than that oh I that can't be more than a reality show more than a reality show oh I'm more than that I'm not just I'm not just a reality show I'm not just that which is understandable which is understandable but now as I get older I'm really proud of you know what I did and created and all that kind of thing when you do Pop Idol and you leave and you're young did you reject it or did you accept it and you were like okay I think the only the thing that I found really hard about that was that lots of people were slagging me off and the show.

56:21So what even then? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's what I found hard. Who was slagging you off? I mean, loads of people who I won't mention because it doesn't matter. I've met a lot of them since, but a lot of them are my heroes, you know? So, but cause you were seen as a threat. I just like, you know, here we go. He's got a record. It was, yeah, a threat and success and it's all given so quickly and I can understand that so i think that's what was that made my relationship with the show hard yeah because that was difficult to hear and i was a bit like why anymore i just entered it come up with it um and then i think maybe sort of prejudice um of coming from a talent show which which probably to be honest that that has gone you would like there's probably a tiny bit of prejudice there's still some areas where I think there is prejudice.

57:15Like I never got to perform at the Brits, even though, I mean, that could. You got two Brit Awards and 12 nominations. A lot of nominations. 12 nominations. I've done for knowing that. Yeah. 12 nominations. 12 nominations. That's a lot of nominations. It's a huge amount. I think there might have been a bit of homophobia going on there as well, which is fine. But I think there was also prejudice. And I was, so I would see a lot of people who were sort of not doing as well as me, solo males, and they'd get performances. And I was like, okay, that's a bit of shame and maybe some I think there was probably a bit of prejudice you know maybe in some festivals I think I'd seen that but again I was like fair enough but I think on the whole now the prejudice I felt like that went off about 10 years how did you handle the fame at the time?

58:00because again you're an introvert and that and that that was different I was so focused on having a career the fame was like secondary yeah but you were so famous yeah but it was secondary honestly i was like laser focused i was like i've got to get to five years if i had to get to my second album so i was like i've got to get that that was your vision i've got i've got to get to my second i've got to do that album and your second i was even more successful yeah yeah it was twice as so twice how many five platinum yeah yeah you know it all i mean that's that's good knowledge it's so it was bonkers it It sold a million in three and a half weeks.

58:42It was madness. Do you love the industry? I actually do again. I didn't for a long time, but I actually do. I think it's really fun. And I actually can't believe I do it. Honestly, I think it's really, really fun. Why did you fall out of love with it? I think it was just repetition, actually. You know, you're doing the same thing. Actually, if I'm really honest, I think it did feel a bit demoralizing when streaming and things started coming in, because it really was like, there is success. There is fulfillment in being successful. Obviously, there's lots of different definitions of success, but there's fulfillment in that, isn't it?

59:17It's like, oh, I've done really well with this record. That's what I've earned. I'm going to get myself an old mini because I love old minis. And everyone deserves that. It doesn't even have to be an old mini. It can be like, I've done a really good day at work. I'm going to buy myself an eclair, whatever it is. You know what I mean, though? It's all relative. And for a multi-billionaire, it would be, I'm going to buy myself a country. I mean, like, you know, knock yourself out, knock yourself out. But it's, I think it was, it's a bit, it did become a bit demoralizing because it was a bit like, wow, this has really changed.

59:50This has really, and I'm expecting to do this. I'm expecting to do this on a dime, you know? And that, and that was, but now I'm like, especially about getting older. I'm just like, I just can't believe I still do it. I can't believe I still do it. I've been doing it so long. Yeah, but it's great. Because I'm not on the level of like, you know, you've got very few people on like the Coldplay's, Ed Sheeran's, Taylor Swift's, all those people. They exist on that level. So I had that for a bit and then it kind of calms down and that's fine. What is it like when you're on that level? It's madness.

1:00:23But give it to me. I don't know if you enjoy it. Someone who has... It was mad. We used to get like police escorts. Tell me this. I mean, it's just sort of madness. But for you, you've explained, I haven't. So I want to know. So police escorts from where you were picked up? I'd forget, I'd forget. You'd finish a show and you'd have a police set and you'd be like, oh, we've got a police escort. I mean, when you think about it, in Italy, you'd go to all these shows and you wouldn't even notice, like, the roads would just be blocked. What? I know, it's madness. And, like, people sending you, you know, I remember, like, working in Italy, you know, and said, like, boxes and boxes of Dolce & Gabbana, boxes and boxes.

1:00:57You know, and I was like, what's this? And they're like, oh, they've sent it or you wear it. And I was like, well, I don't want to wear, I just want to wear Gap, you know, and like having big arguments. I mean, it's just like sort of lots of weird and like turning, I don't know. Some of it I found a bit scary, to be honest, actually. So I would actually turn a lot of stuff down, which is a shame the introvert and a bit shy, you know. So I remember like Valentino going, come, come to my, you know, you must come to my house for dinner. And I was like, oh, no, I won't. Because I found it. Wow. I didn't quite understand.

1:01:25Well, that's insane. Some of the fame things I didn't, I couldn't quite understand why you would just go and see people just because you were famous. I didn't understand it so I went the other I went the other way you rejected it yeah I did reject it a bit because I found it a bit I didn't understand it it was like why are they asking me I don't know them is it just it slightly freaked me out and I'm actually really pleased it did because I think it kept me stay true to yourself I think it just kept me normal because otherwise otherwise you you lose I was terrified of losing yeah I was terrified you lose yourself you lose your friendships terrified I would have lost all my friends from uni, my friends from school, everything.

1:02:07And I think I would have become a complete cunt. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Completely. And I was a cunt for about a year, but then I went into therapy. Do you know what I mean? But I was, I was a cunt for a year. Yeah, but you're allowed to be. I thought I was really important. You were young, you're allowed to be. I had a film, I had a movie, I'd had this, I'd had that. You know, all the decisions I'd made were right. And I was like, yeah, man. And then a friend said, you're a cunt. A friend from uni. and I was like, oh, okay. You've fallen back in love with the music and you're writing and you're like, this feels good.

1:02:37How do you know that it feels really good when you're writing an album like that?

1:02:43And how is it different to other albums? I don't, I just feel like I just knew, I was doing this other project that was like sort of really sad. I'm not sure what it was. I mean, it was great, but I was just, it was quite serious and then and then i actually did the first song lighted up that was the first song that changed it all and i was like because you know i was like oh it's very poppy and i just thought this is genius it's brilliant and so that's the name of the album yeah and so i thought well i'm just gonna do loads of brilliant pop songs because i've always but i I think because I came from Pop Idol and I didn't want to do the norm.

1:03:27So that's why I worked. You know, I didn't work with any of the Scandinavian people. I didn't work with any of the people that would work with Westlife and people like that who were having massive hits. I would go and work with Steve Lipson, who came from The Art of Noise and did Annie Lennox's stuff and Whitney Houston, Grace Jones. And I'd go and work with Nitin Sourney or like go and work with Groove Armand. Wow. But yeah, but I was very conscious of not doing the norm because I thought... Because you wanted to be against the grain? Yeah and I just thought you're not going to have a career If you just do what all those people are doing At that time So I never really loved an out and out Pop hit Favour track on the album On the new one I think it could be the worst actually It's a ballad No no it's called the worst It's called the worst But I think it's the best And that's a ballad That's quite gorgeous I think that's my favourite And you're going on a, what I saw was a over 50 tour date to different venues across the UK.

1:04:25Cause you want to do smaller places. Yeah, tiny. Yeah. More intimate. I've never done that. Yeah. Cause you want to do that. Cause you just want to connect with the crowd. I just want to go to more places. I just thought I never, and also they have to travel. People have to travel, you know, quite often to go to a city. Yeah. So I'll do like, what, 20 dates in the UK? Yeah. Maybe a tiny bit more, but in big venues and cities. And I was like, well, that means quite a few people have to travel. I've never gone up to the Highlands. I've never gone to Cornwall. I've never gone to any of these. I just go to the same places for like over 20 years.

1:05:01So I just thought, well, why don't we do. I did this. It was after lockdown and I did these album launch shows where I spoke. I don't know how they even came about, but I probably started enjoying talking more and more and more in my shows. I really like it. and also I like hearing from the audience and I just think it's fun to be honest and then people, then I thought why don't I do these little acoustic shows people can email in on an iPad but there was one thing I did and the first question was Will, hi Will, I moved to Australia just after you won Pop Idol and I came back a month ago can you catch me up on what you've been up to over 20 years this is really funny okay uh it's just really fun they're just really funny so um i'm really looking forward to it are you and it's really musical there's something about being i don't know if any other singers that you've interviewed over the years told you this but when you see yourself as a singer yeah because there's like it's like there's movie stars and there's actors you know and there's singers and there's pop stars and performers they're all different but i really see myself as a singer um and not one's better than the other they're all different things um when you sing acoustically it's like heaven for a singer because there's so much space you know i can sing a song like leave right now but it can feel like i've never sung it at all i feel it would feel like i've sung it for the first time i love that i love that you better leave yeah i think i better leave right now you're closing your eyes yeah of course i close I was actually definitely trying.

1:06:43Yeah, it's like a little... Can we try and harmonise? You just changed key. Think I better leave right now Before I fall any deeper Think I better leave right now And getting weaker and weaker Somebody better show me how You're changing key. It's hard to harmonise with you. I'm not a singer. I'm a pop star. Well, can I say, I loved every minute of this. I really truly have. I've loved it as well. I knew I'd love it. You're a nice person. I really have enjoyed every minute. So thank you. And thank you for being honest and open. And you're a storyteller as well. So you say things that people can really relate to and really feel.

1:07:33So I appreciate that. That's the important thing. We end with eight questions. Eight. Oh, yeah. Wow. You ready for this? Oh, my God. Are they like quick fire? Yeah, quick fire. What's a saying or phrase that always makes you smile or cheers you up? Treat people how you expect to be treated. Love that. Yeah. Best compliment anyone's ever given you? Nice ass. 2005. Rare of the year. I've got great ass. Still good. Do you know why we do? We do. I have a good butt as well. Rugby. Is that what it is? Yes, because you're down low and catching things. And do you look at it sometimes and go, oh, yes, good butt.

1:08:07Yeah, and my wife likes my butt. Yeah, great. what scares you most about yourself my ability to sweat on any given opportunity when was the last time you cried and why I mean I could have cried today probably yesterday I would imagine it would be watching something on Instagram to do with a puppy yeah what's something you can't let go of any desperate housewives any of the thingy housewives franchise my wife loves that she's obsessed yeah I'm obsessed what's something that you'd be embarrassed for people to know you like or want and you love your antiques I hear well I've just bought an old basin just bought an old basin I've just got a pickup truck I've just got a pickup truck so I can buy more antiques it's crazy that I don't I'm such an open book people probably know it polishing brass is a bit odd I love polishing brass You like polishing brass?

1:09:10Yeah, I have now a whole kit. Yeah. Sorry, hang on a second. You have a whole kit to polish brass? Now I've got a wheel, a clamp that's on a wheel. I mean, I do. That's what I do. Do you ever polish your Olivia award? Because there's something else then. Yeah, I polish my Olivia award. Yeah. But now I've got two. When you're alone or? Depends. Depends. If someone wants to join in. They can. The polishing of the award. They can Yeah Then I might do Okay What turns you off? Oh Rudeness The worst The worst Rudeness What turns you on? Great bum Great bum Lips Lips? Have you got nice lips? No Oh you've got nice lips My wife has great lips That's what I would say I keep mentioning my wife But she does She has really And it's great for kissing Oh I say You can tell them my heart's open, can't you?

1:10:10Yeah. Because I'm like... I always say to Sophie that if she died, I would take her lips off and wear her as a necklace. I kiss it every day. Oh, that's so sweet. Can I just say, I'm really pleased that you didn't open with that at the beginning of our interview. Yeah, I shouldn't have done that. Because I'd be like... This guy's psycho. That's psycho. Yeah, that's psycho. But it's quite sweet. Quite sweet. And you have nice lips. They're just like, yeah, such gorgeous. What do you like most about yourself? I actually really like my lips. I think I've got really nice lips.

1:10:47I think I just get them moulded into little brooches. Really? I could give you a brooch. I'll have the brooch as well. I'd love that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I can have. Who said this, Will Young's? I think I'm a kind person. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that's nice. I didn't used to like that about me, but I like it. Yes. It's good to be kind. Great to be kind Bonus, favourite swear word? Cunt It's got to be Just as a side note, I do think the word felch is quite an interesting word Felching though is... You're not a felching It's a whole other thing Felching is... Can we say what it is? Felching is where you ejaculate into someone's bottom and then you suck it up with a straw.

1:11:38Well, on that note, I think I better leave right now. Oh, well done. You bloody felch. Oh, that was amazing.

1:11:52What a guy. Wasn't that great? Such a lovely man. I honestly could listen to that. I'm sorry, listener, you're only getting like an hour of it. I could have listened to three hours of that. Are you going to edit it down then to an hour? I'll edit it down till it feels the right length. Which might be longer. Which might be longer than normal. Because I just... He's so nice. You really liked that episode, didn't you? Yeah, he's such a nice man. But I really like how he's also like, doesn't mind calling someone a bad word. See. Yeah, I don't know if I can say that. I don't really say it either though.

1:12:27I do like to say it, but I don't know if I want to be on record saying it. I don't really say it. Do you not? I don't really swear that much. And if you know, sometimes... No, you're not a big swearer actually. Not a big swearer. It gives me a bit of like, ah, when I swear for some reason. Really? A little bit. Interesting. But anyway, I like, I really liked Will Young. And I liked your conversation. Well, thank you very much, producer Jemima. And if you liked this episode, let us know. Please send us any messages at Great Company Podcast. We're on Instagram. Slide into our DMs. We'd love to hear from you.

1:12:54And if you haven't followed or subscribed to the show, it makes the world of difference. Just clicking that button takes a second and it does everything for us. So thank you so much. And listen, we're going to see you next week on Wednesday for another episode of Great Company.

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1:14:59Hello, I'm Katherine Ryan, and this is Write Me Dirty, the podcast where two comedians write steamy, ridiculous erotica about each other. I give them a bizarre prompt, think apocalypse must include a zombie, and they read their spicy stories aloud while I judge them on sexiness, funniness, and sheer chaos. It's hilarious, awkward, and occasionally kind of hot. Write Me Dirty. Thursdays just got thirstier. Write me dirty