Why 80% of the Fortune 100 Chose Qualtrics | Ryan Smith

32:09And you're like, what am I doing here? And everyone's calling you saying, like, you're an idiot. Like, you should just wait, just wait. You've waited 17 years. Just wait. You probably come out at six, but now you might come out at four. Well, the difference is, is like, are you floating? You got to float 10 or 15, green shoe, like 15 % of your company, maybe even 20%. The difference between the dilution for every employee and everyone else, and 4 billion is different than six. But it's still an up, it's still an up round from the two and a half. Thank goodness. Otherwise, you don't think you could have stomached it?

32:51No, you could stomach it. We're supposed to be smart business folks, and we're supposed to be entrepreneurs who can go out, and you can stomach it, but why are you failing the marshmallow test early on in your cap table? And maybe this lesson's a little bit more about cap table management, why founders, especially right now, they're not deciding the difference between two and a half and four. they're deciding the difference between two and a half and the equivalent of 12. That's what I'm seeing. I don't, you'll never hear me if it's two and a half or four, whatever it is. It's when you're a hundred million dollars and throw out Sierra and Harvey and FileVide, throw those out.

33:39It's the rest of the world. I mean, it's not going to end well, because the next round of this are going to be the rest of tech. I literally just think that it goes back to the point that what we're seeing, your original opening, what we're seeing is just, wait a minute, we're seeing companies in two years go. Everybody's seeing it. Everyone's gearing up. Like everybody's gearing up. everyone knows that this isn't a slight adjustment where you take your original product and make a tweak. You're going to see organizational structures of public companies where they're doing things that have never been done before.

34:31All the ones that actually have the balls. Like you don't know they need the balls until they're in the spot. Yeah, yeah. No, it's true. And everyone's feeling the spot. When you hit someone over the head with what they think they're doing well with a triple market cap loss. Totally. Just because they're branded as a boomer. I promise you, and they're good entrepreneurs. I promise you they think the net new world's a lot easier than the outfit that Wall Street's making them. because when you're someone like me and you've got to go into Wall Street, you're making me put on an outfit that I'm uncomfortable in.

35:20Let's just be honest. Let me look at me. Look at how I roll. You know what I'm really comfortable in? The new way the world's operating. And most of my cohort and these founders and entrepreneurs believe that same way. You want to get them uncomfortable? like I just got off the phone with a portfolio company that's going to be going public this spring and they were going through their first you know compensation committee and then audit committee like this dude's so uncomfortable right he just wants to go build like new AI stuff right and it's like well and so all i'm saying is there's another side you almost can't believe everything you're watching you also can't believe the game is not going to be won right now great point um on the can i like zoom back into the uh the road show you're the only one and then what happens mcdermott from sap calls you halfway through did you have a relationship before that?

36:30Yeah. So I had developed a long relationship with all the CEOs and McDermott, you know, we had talked, but you know, what, what, what I liked about SAP was we had pretty good strength and momentum in the U S and, you know, I think to go where we wanted to go as a true global company, you know, I wanted to partner with the largest software company in Europe. and how do you do that? And then I got with Bill, and we really hit it off, like in a really strange way. Like he viewed me as kind of a younger version of like kind of what he needed in there, almost like, hey, I need some founder blood to kind of do what I want to go do.

37:20And if you think about where they had gone, they had acquired Concur, they had acquired Ariba. They were really, they acquired a sales tool as well. They were like trying to really go off and almost like, I wouldn't say go after CRM, but like go, go in the, the, the customer space really, you know, in the way they think about it, probably much more is like, we own the CIO. How do we own the CMO? It's not how other people think, but like, if you were to actually, they're not saying this out loud, but if I was D duping, like actually the psychology of it, I had a relationship, But, you know, I think Anaplan was the only company I think that had been bought during the IPO roadshow in the last 10 years or something like that.

38:08So we had done the full roadshow and I get a call saying, hey, maybe there's something here. What do you think? And I was like, well, I'll be in New York on this roadshow. And so literally I would go do the roadshow all day. I would cruise over to the SAP office at nine or 10 o 'clock at night and whiteboard with the SAP team of if we were going to go to this deal, how the world would work. And we go till like four or five in the morning. So I didn't sleep anytime on the roadshow. So that first week we We were 16 times oversubscribed on our IPO. We had a bunch of demand. And during that weekend, Bill is like, I'm flying to Utah.

38:59How are we going to go do this? And I've got to get our SAP board online. But if I make an offer, what are you going to do? and you know my investors were a little split um my founders were like ryan it's kind of what you want to do like you're the one that's going to have to be on the hook being a public ceo what do we think the best option for the business is and it was hard to look at sap and say that's not like what do you really want did you grow up and say hey i want to be a public ceo or, you know, that wasn't on my bingo card in high school. I wasn't like, you know what? I really want to be a public CEO.

39:42Like the high bar for that is someone being like, hey, it's not that bad. So it's like the dream is like, it's not that bad. Like it was much more about, I want Qualtrics everywhere. I want ubiquitous usage of Qualtrics. I want it democratized. I want, I can see the value that customers were getting out of our product. I want to show up somewhere and say, hey, oh, you're Qualtrics. You know, like that's what I want. That's what our employees want. Like I want that brand out there. And it was hard to look at SAP and say, hey, that's not that different. Like that actually would work. And then Bill comes in and says, hey, just come public a different way.

40:29Come public through SAP. I'll put you on the tip of the spear. We'll go everywhere around the world and you'll get way more out of this than your IPO if you're locked in. Are you going to lock in? And I was like, so we had this decision. He comes out, he gets board approval on a Sunday morning. I had scheduled a call with all of our employees at 2 p.m. on a Sunday, all hands. Everyone thinks what we're talking about is next week's event because we're winging the bell on Wednesday. we had pseudo rented out times square we're running all of this and you know this is it too at 12 45 i called our investors i sat with bill and said hey we're doing a deal j slash k we're going with sap and the rest was kind of history i mean it hit the wire at 5 p.m i'm sitting up in Sundance here in Utah with McDermott and we're on a polygon talking to his hundred investors.

41:31And I mean, it was, it was, it was definitely a unique experience that is way more than a 40 minute podcast to go over. But the lessons, um, even after that, before and after that are, I mean, it's just a road that all these companies are going to have to travel. and I would say they wouldn't have to travel but the fact that only eight or nine companies have sold since then is actually like being acquired really isn't a strategy they couldn't do that deal right now they couldn't walk into the board right now with the market cap and the wall street down and be like hey you know what I'm gonna take a flyer on this company like timing's hard and some CEOs can, but like, I'm just, and I'm not trying to be this wise.

42:18It's a little bit like puberty. You're going to have to go through it. And it's going to be weird. You're going to have to go through that Goldman Morgan, JP Morgan process. And what companies don't realize is the higher the raising in some of these things, like they've already planned their exit. I'll give you an example. Let me give you one, one quick story. 2011, we're looking to raise money. we're 36 million in revenue kicking off 24 million in cash and we're distributing it out dave goldberg would survey monkey calls and is like hey do you want to do you want to i want to buy you and it's literally like ryan grab your hat and go i got it and he you know at the time cheryl was running facebook like i'm just like dave like what do you do so he comes out to utah he goes through it all so coin excel come up they've got an offer that's less than the acquisition offered by$150 million to raise the Series A.

43:14At the time, it's the largest Series A since 2008. It was in 2012. Here's 36 million in spitting out cash, Series A? We had not raised any money. Complete bootstrap. And by the way, this offer would obviously change your life forever. There's like three shareholders of the company. I'm 31 years old or whatever it is. And I'm like, Dave, why are you doing this? Like you and share like you guys have barack obama at your house and president like why are you why do you want to do this? And he was like, I just want my kids to see me work And like I like what you're doing. I like what you're about. I like everything here And I said dave, but i'm not ready to exit my kids need to see me work And he said something i'll never forget He said but ryan if you take venture capital you're exiting you're absolutely exiting already whether you use it or not you are now on the track and I said no I'm not that's not true there's no rights, the provisions, this, that if I look back I started my exit in 2011 when I took that money And we wouldn't have gotten where we were if it wasn't for the likes of Excel.

44:43But what founders don't understand is the second that they bring people into their tent, they are on the track. Whether they like it or not, it's just the way it is. And it could be the pressure that the founder puts on themselves, like in my case. You know? And even Stripe. Like, I remember Patrick and John back in the day, flying into Provo, coming into Qualtrics, like staying at my house. Like they're not maybe on the IPO, but they've exited with liquidity for their employee base and figured out a way to be public without being public from a financial standpoint. You know, I'll never forget the Palantir employees calling and their executives saying, hey, how are you dealing with our issues?

45:29We haven't gone public yet. It's a huge problem. So at some point, the second you get on that track And you put that first marker out there You're on it The second you give away stock, you're on it And so I'm just saying As we look at this landscape There's a lot of folks that are saying Hey, I've got to go fast, fast, fast, fast, fast now And I'm sitting here a little bit going Why?

46:03why? Why do you have to go so fast? Like what, what if, if that person can do it in two years, I feel like I'm as smart as they are. I've got really smart engineers. I have money. I should be able to do it in one. I'm, I'm walking through this. Like the race isn't going to be won right now. If you look at my first term stream, 2011, I thought we'd never raise money again. if you would have told me here we are 15 years later running business like i would i would have been like what in the world like how like and so all i'm saying is this race is longer than everyone thinks like it's longer yeah you know like uh it's actually like a really insightful observation um on the one hand the like founder instinct to have ants in your pants is like your greatest strength like this thing of like someone's out to get me i gotta keep moving if i do not keep moving i die i have the opportunity to go take advantage of this market right now is like that's like what makes founders special in so many cases is like they have this thing in their mind that is just like gotta go every day and keep pushing yeah but those weren't that's not that's not mutually exclusive of like urgency and founder urgency and founder mode and maniacal focus and execution and being the most paranoid human on the planet, like has nothing to do with screwing up your cap table.

47:38No, no, I think it's a good point, which is like in many cases, that's also their Achilles heel. Like that also tends to be the thing where you put speed and growth basically at the forefront of everything else. And you don't care how much capital you take. You don't care what price you take it at. You don't care how bloated your organization gets. You just go. And I think what you're saying is like, there is a risk, there is a downside to that. Well, I'm not just saying this. I'm just saying you can do it. You can do all those things and manage. No one cares how much money you raise right now.

48:14Like, honestly, like no one cares. Like, I, like no one cares. There's no lift. There's not this stuff. Like I'll never forget. I was on, I mean, I was$400 million. We had the largest series A since 2008 and 2012. We, I was on CNBC 13 times and every magazine, like do it. Like we put on a clinic of taking Qualtrics out there publicly. I mean, this was back when Forbes or the cloud 100, everything, like everyone knew who we were there was like almost 300 articles about our ipo when we were coming out the first night the very first night we sell the company i'm sitting on the policon with bill mcdermott first question bill how could you acquire a company no one's heard of next question yeah we've never really heard of qualtrics before seems like a big bet next question i am sitting back in my chair like this big bill's like wait no one none of you know who qualtrics is and i'm like thinking back of all the times i flew to new york all the times i was out there i was like who have i been speaking to who have i who's been my audience is ink magazine actually the only people reading that are the other founders.

49:43Like, I think if you take away a little bit that you assume no one's going to know who you are, then it comes to how are you building a good business and how are you taking care of those people who are sitting there internally, the best of your ability? And how do you take care of the show? And then how do you create a product that you want to wake up because you truly believe in it every single day like and you add value to the world and you're making the end user's life and those people's career better and that's like what got me going if someone was on Qualtrics like I feel like they had a leg up in their job and so um I'm not I don't want this ever to get misconstrued that like there's only one way to do it but i'm in these i mean i've got a billion dollar venture fund like we're out there like we're going through like i'm meeting with founders all the time the amount of people who are one year in and what i'm seeing coming out and their mindset is this race is going to be won in the next three years and if i go back like we took over the academic market and every venture capitalist said you cannot sell into academia because there's no revenue there's no this we it took us seven years and if you look at 2026 who owns the academic market qualtrics it was hard to get into but it was really hard to get out of no one's been able to disrupt us and the concern i have is like i remember opening up australia i'd go i'd go demo i'd go demo qualtrics in australia everyone would buy it i was like this market's awesome well the problem is the next person that came in the demoed in australia they bought theirs too and kicked us out and so if someone's coming up that quick i actually would prefer 60 or 70 percent growth where there's a moat where these people can't get out because it was so hard to get in.

51:58And I think that's what you're seeing a little bit with like a Palantir of the world where people are envious going, oh, wait, you're going to deploy in 2028. But holy cow, look at the length of that cot. Like, wow, how does that happen? Right. You want to be sticky in a way, and sometimes the moat is how hard it is to get in. And this isn't like, I'd invest in Brett and Clay every freaking day on Sierra, right? That's not what this is. And we did invest in FileVine, and I love their growth rate. I love what they're doing. But my conversation with the founder is very much, okay, I get all of that.

52:44There's also another side of this that you've got to be considering, and you're going to have to go through this path. If you want to raise above$7 billion, you're going public. There's no upside in thinking there's another path. Might happen, but I was lucky that SAP came in. The second we were acquired by SAP, I went to one of these banking events with all the CEOs. I left after 30 minutes because six public CEOs came up to me. How'd you do it? How'd you get out? Like, can you make an intro? And I'm like, whoa, that's not like how I don't have that optionality because it's not really a strategy.

53:31How long did you last at SAP? We spun out about two years after the acquisition. and were you still there yeah bill left after a year so you lost okay maybe like i'm putting words in your mouth but like you tell me uh bill left you lost your sponsor because bill said like how long will you stay and i said bill how long are you gonna stay and he was like well should we sign something for you and i said bill like my handshakes all i got bro i'll be here two years guaranteed after that like up to you he left after a year i called bill and i said bill like you guys just paid a billion dollars for our company it really means a lot to me in utah like we've got a huge runway and he goes call hostile platner so i call hostile platner he's like what do you want to do and you know unfortunately at the ipo like we owned a lot of the company, you know, probably more in a Mike and Scott situation, Alassium, where we manage the cap table in a way that, you know, it wasn't all VC owned.

54:46And so Hazel was like, well, you stick around. I was like, Hazel, I'm not like working. Like this doesn't make, you can't pay me, bro. Like you just can't. And he was like, well, what if we, what do you want to do? I said, I'll take it public. I was like, we've kept our sales team. We kept our go-to-market intact. We can go public. And that it's crazy. The only thing of whether we took Qualtrics public or it stayed within SAP, the only thing that mattered, whether we could do that or not, was our go-to-market. That's how important this is to these companies. It was the difference between Qualtrics being a standalone independent company where we just are making like now a six point something billion dollar acquisition or basically being dead as we know it under a different model was our go-to-market because it gave the public markets the confidence that you would deliver that you would deliver on your on your revenue goals it was equally important as a technology and um what what did it end up going out at?

55:56Um, geez, I don't know where the market cap was, but it was, was it above the eight that SAP bought her for? Oh yeah. Like in, in that first year was in the$20 billion market cap. And then you were running the company. Yeah. And then we were running the company, Zig Serafin, awesome human. Um, my COO took over as CEO. I became executive chairman. we got it out um i put silver lake on the board um silver lake and all also done dell and vmware which was kind of the only experience like that so egon durbin absolute beast came in and was like hey you know he's like this is cool um got into sap and you know we're a year and a half in um they owned all the stock so there was no float so unfortunately when you're in a spot where sap he owns 80 % of the stock, you know, outside investors aren't piling into that because they could flip out at any time.

56:57And it's just for a whole host of reasons. And we kind of approached them and said, Hey, look, if you're not going to flip some of the stock, which it's up to you, you've done really well on this, um, then we probably should think about some different things. And, you know, Egon offered him, you know, Hey, Silver Lake would buy it. and we went through the process with every venture, every private equity group in the world coming in and saying, Hey, we want this too. And it was pretty cool because we were able to work a deal with Egon and Silver Lake. And, um, that's kind of been the last two to three years.

57:34And, you know, going from public company to private, um, there's a lot of difference in company building. So for example, you've got, you know, a billion dollars a year. And, you know, public company compensation, that's liquid stock for all of your employees. Well, that doesn't work anymore. When you're a private company, you've got to change the model. And so we've kind of been spending the last two years, right-sizing the model, doing a couple acquisitions. And we've just done this really big one in healthcare that we're working on. And so you look at this, it's going to be a$40,$50 billion company.

58:11And like the principles are the same. Like I walked by, it was interesting. I was at the hockey game two nights ago and I walked into the Qualtrics suite at three o 'clock and they've got one of the largest home builders in the world in Salt Lake. And it's just all through the Qualtrics AI demo. And if you look at Qualtrics and where AI plays, I mean, there's probably not a better company on the planet with the data we have around insights and basically turning these companies

58:42into predictive geniuses. You know, it's their version of having like a call sheet or, you know, inside, right? Because they can look at their customer base. They can look at that data and, you know, right around like no one's disrupting, you know, customer experience. Like it's on the top two or three, especially right now, even when there's trends and everything, every CEO on the planet wants to be able to run their business from an outside view looking in as opposed from that boardroom looking out, you know? And so Qualtrics is in a really, really good spot. You're just not hearing a lot about it because it's private, but, you know, incredibly profitable right now.

59:27And it's a little different model than what I ran, which was grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. And that's what people don't understand is like, I am the growth guy. So when I'm coming out telling these founders, hey, you might have a little bit of blind spot. I just put someone around you. Like, as you go through that, the road's a lot longer. That's because of my experience. It's not because I'm a hater. Like I freaking, I love everything that's going on right now. I love the pace of innovation. I, I, I mean, I don't need to do this. And I am in every day, every single day. I'm like coding with Claude.

1:00:05I was doing this whole project with replet and then my head hurt and now I'm switching over. Like I, like we're like, I'm in this, I I'm, I'm working on an app for all of our jazz and mammoth players. When they come to Utah, like I am like, I'm going through this, but I'm also, when it comes to business to business, you know, there's this great book that's same as ever. There are some things that are same as ever. a lot of things. And so that's, that's just where I'm at. Super interesting. Can I ask you like one or two personal questions before I let you go? Yeah, sure. The journey is long. And my, um, my observation, having read about you and now having spent some time with you is the like prerequisite to that is energy.

1:00:59Like it requires an immense amount of energy. Like even you talking about the story of the roadshow, like five in the morning, you're still chipping away after being out with bankers all day. Like that's what it takes. And I'm curious, like, is the energy innate for you? Do you find ways to, like you mentioned you have a gym next to you. Like are there things that you do? Cause you're still bringing it now. Like you've taken this thing in and out, public, private. Like you've done the whole thing. Now you own the jazz. Like you're doing it all still. and you strike me as like still having probably as much energy energy as you did 20 years ago i'm curious like uh do you think about i don't know ways to like i don't know personally like actively cultivate that you know it's funny you ask that because we had our lp uh for our new halo fund we're nine months in we placed 300 million dollars and um we made eight bets and it's at the intersection of experience, which is anywhere from F1 to WME Endeavor to Filevine on the legal AI side.

1:02:05And we're looking for companies that the founders really have kind of what we think it takes, you know, to run, knowing that everything's going to change two or three times. Like this moment right here, it's also going to come back in four years and someone's going to have to navigate that. And this is why I'm so bullish on Bill and Mike, because they are the best I've seen at navigating. And I think many of us done a great job. But we also had a hockey game Wednesday night, a basketball game last night, a hockey game tonight, a basketball game tomorrow night, and a hockey game or a basketball game on Monday.

1:02:44And I'm at all of those. Like I worked the night relationship right but my whole career I've got up at 5 a.m and played hoops and worked out and done all these things so last night I'm at the hockey game or I'm at the basketball game like boys and I drive them to school today I drive my three little ones to school today and um I got a text message from someone in my neighborhood that they were at like a neighborhood like church thing. And I have an 11 year old and he said, Hey, I'm just so impressed with your 11 year old because like he raised his hand for something. And like, there's just something special about the kid.

1:03:29And like, as a parent, that's a pretty cool thing to hear. Like, okay, whoa. But I was thinking more about it. And then yesterday at the investor event, you know, we've got all the major family office alligators like there and, you know, they're all scratching in their head trying to think through all this same thing that we talked about they're so confused and they also run the risk of either making or losing a lot of money and a woman comes up to me last night after the event who came and stayed for the basketball she said hey i don't know look i mean it's clear that none of us can predict what's going to happen but your energy is something I wish I had.

1:04:12And I was like, huh. Well, so this morning in the car with the kids, I just said, hey guys, like the one thing you can control is your energy. And one of my partners in the jazz is Dwayne Wade. And when Dwayne Wade walks into a room, I asked him, I asked my kids, I said, have you ever seen D have bad energy? And he's like, no, he's always got the best. energy and i was like okay i don't know if what i said yesterday to our lps like helped them for everything that they're all struggling with right now or they're excited about but she felt the energy and so i told my kids today like literally i and i can't believe you asked me this question because i was like control your energy like you can all you all have good energy it's in your dna you got your mom's looks you got my energy and you got her energy because she's a rock star like but you have it in you be like duane and i'm sure duane has days where he does he's not feeling it but like bring your energy because that matters as much as the other thing people want to be around good energy they just do you think energy is god-given um yes and no do you think your kids inherited your energy not all of them i already know that right but i've also watched my daughter in the last two years work on her energy through dance and other things and it's palatable like you know what i think is interesting people call me high energy all the time.

1:05:59And I would agree. But you know, the other day, I we had a every Wednesday as a team, we always get together and do something Wednesday night. And this Wednesday night was we were going to an orange theory class together, whatever, we're all doing a workout. And so usually it's dinner. In this case, it was a workout. And so I was like, I'm gonna skip my workout this morning. Because like, I don't need I don't need to do it to a day today. Okay, all day. I felt terrible. because I did not sweat in the morning. And until I sweat, it didn't matter what I did. I just felt terrible. And I am like somebody that I think God has given me energy.

1:06:44I just have it. And I couldn't find it. Yeah, like it's a good point because, and by the way, it's going to change. I remember the days where I felt like in 2015, 16, 17, they're the most exciting years of Qualtrics. But I would go into the building that you were in this week and I would walk in the door and literally within an hour, I was in a bad mood. Because I would just get bombarded. And I was also in a role where my job had turned into being like a high paid router. Bring the problem in, flip it out. And I was like, I'm not having fun. This isn't fun. And so I changed my routine because of energy.

1:07:33I told my group, like, do not schedule anything before 10 a.m. I would wake up at the same time. I would do my workout. I'm early at eight o 'clock. I would leave the house the same way. And I would go to a restaurant in Provo, a breakfast restaurant. And I would have my AirPods in. I'd have killer music cranking. and I would get done what I wanted to get done. So I felt like individually I had done something today and I felt like no matter how that day goes when I get there with everyone else, I personally feel like I got something done and I'd stay till 10 or I'd stay till 8.45. And then I'd walk in and I'd be like, bring it.

1:08:24And I learned this from a gentleman because I play a lot of golf. I learned this from a guy on the golf course when I was early on in college. I owned a couple of rental properties and every time the rental property person called, it was my worst day. Hey, come fix the washer. I didn't know what to do. And I remember him being on the driving range and was like, I could tell he was talking to, you know, like 200 rental properties and he was always in such a good mood. And I was like, Hey, when my rental property people call, I'm pissed off. when your rental property people call, you're always in a good mood.

1:09:00And he's like, Ryan, that's all I do. It's beautiful. I just wait for that phone to ring. And I'm like, wow, like the energy, the difference, like how he went around it. And so I always thought of that, like, how do I get to a spot in my own business where I'm just waiting for that phone? Oh, you've got a problem. Let's go solve that. Well, if you can help me figure out how to wait for the lawyer's call. That's currently where I'm getting my absolute butt handed to me right now. So if I can figure out a way to get excited about the lawyer's calling. Like the bottom line is if you're sitting here, you're listening to this and you're like, hey, where's AI?

1:09:39AI is attacking every single process that we have. Every single process. Like if there is a process, it's going to be attacked and improved and automated. And, you know, I mean, yesterday you had the, you know, Jack's big layoff and it was like, hey, I mean, yes and no, you can't believe everything you read. That's the other thing. I'm in sports. You just can't believe everything you read. Right. When we went, I mean, there's massive transformation going on, and I think people are trying to do less, but there's also an argument that every single company who has been operating as a public company is probably 25 % bloated, where they have tried to hire.

1:10:26The rule was you'd hire for 2000. I mean, Benny off and, you know, the folks I know from Salesforce who came over to work with me, we go into planning in the fall. And it's like, if we don't have all of our sales reps hired for next year by November, then we're not going to hit. because of ramp time, onboarding, everything else, these models are changing. And, you know, you don't need to do that anymore. And so when, you know, maybe Elon took over X, it was like, well, do we, we've been hiring so far in advance. And by the way, if we're public, you're even hiring way more because as a public company, you're sitting here going, okay, where are my risk factors?

1:11:08under hiring is the number one thing that could take me down over hiring i'm getting dinged this much just over hire like because you can't stand up and be like oh i missed my numbers because i under hire you can stand up and be like our margin went down half a percent and our forecast is that like you could but you're running it now as a private company you're not going to run it that way because you don't have the pressure i appreciate you doing this um hopefully i get to see you uh and hang out with you with you soon and maybe hold a pair of those those sweet bandwagons the bandwagon is open for the mammoth or the jazz so anyone who wants to come on board like i'll cut you a deal when steph when steph retires then maybe i can give myself permission to stop being a Warriors fan and jump onto the Jazz bandwagon.

1:12:01Yeah, a lot of people probably feel that way because Steph's like one of one and not only is he human, but everything else. But you could also come out to Utah and watch Steph play the Jazz. That is true. I'll set you up. Good to see you, man.

1:12:17Ryan Smith:I appreciate you. That's it for now. If you liked the episode, please leave us a review or go back into the archives where we've done more than 200 episodes with some fantastic folks. This podcast is a Kleiner Perkins production, and I'm Juven. Thanks for listening.