Steven Spielberg, Emily Blunt, & Josh O'Connor

25:52And I was like, I guess. And I did a face, and they were like, that's not it. That's not the spirit. So I didn't know about that. But I will say that my first day shooting on the film, I had this extraordinary experience of, it was kind of a pretty straightforward scene. It was just literally me walking through a door into the back lot of this wrestling venue. And there were three blacked out SUVs, a big beam of light, some mist in the air, and a dripping pipe. And I was like, oh, I'm in a Spielberg. And it was extraordinary. And it was almost like, yeah, it was just, you know, I've said before, but Stephen is the architect of my imagination as a child.

26:36And so there is this kind of familiarity and yet like grandeur to it. And it felt epic. And I was just in the parking lot. Can we categorically say maybe the all-time or the trio of Spielberg faces I think of is Jurassic Park? I mean, what Sam, Laura, and Jeff are able to do, with all due respect, the CGI is amazing, the animatronics are amazing, but that works because of how they're reacting. Yeah, because you want to believe that dinosaurs have come back, and you want to believe the dinosaurs. And Singh is believing, so ILM, Dennis Mirren, did an amazing job. But the very first, very first digital leading character in the history of the movie, this was the first time a leading character, the reason you went to see the film, was done on a computer.

27:23It had never happened before. But that would have meant nothing without us being able to, because we're not going to identify with a brachiosaur or a T-Rex. We are going to identify with people who are in danger of being either stomped to death or swallowed whole. And so you go to those characters, and you suddenly have the experience through them. And that's the way it sort of has to be. Close encounters, it was very strange at close encounters because we put all the effects in later. Everything had to go in later. So all there was for the 400 extras in the arrival zone of close encounters, all they could do was look at numbers that were hanging from huge signs, 85 feet.

28:05It was the biggest interior space in America. It was a 1930s dirigible hangar that they used to make blimps in back in the 30s and 40s. But no center post. That's why we chose it. Nothing to keep. It was huge, like two football fields, 90 feet to the top. And we put numbers for 400 extras. And my job was to yell through a ballroom and call off the numbers. And their job was to respond and read the numbers as I was calling them out. And at the same time, they had to act like they were watching something that no one has ever seen before. And it's really interesting how despite how many times you call things out on numbers, there's always a dozen or so people that are about four numbers behind.

28:50And then you've got to go and you've got to do the whole thing over again. We didn't have any video playback in those days. So you had to have everybody watching. Okay, that group was four numbers behind. I mean, it was crazy. And there's no awe. But it showed me that these extras from Mobile, Alabama, were all pretty good actors. Because they supplied the kind of awe that was later joined with this incredible mothership effect that Doug Trumbull created. It can obviously apply to E.T. as well. I mean, what Henry and Drew do. That's easier because these are kids. And the aesthetic distance between an experience and the person is like this.

29:33When you get older, the aesthetic distance gets wild. For Drew, Drew might have thought that was an alien. She believed it. She used to talk to E.T. between takes when all the operators went off for lunch and I would just hear talking, go around the corner and Drew was just standing there talking to E.T. who's inert, but just having a complete conversation and pausing long enough to hear the answer that only she can hear in her mind. Also, the fact that you shot it practically in sequence so that when he did leave, Drew was completely beside himself. They were all wrecked. All the kids were wrecked because their last four days of shooting was the last moments of the movie.

30:12This has a great ending, and it just reminds you, we're talking about E.T. Can we just say definitively, for my money, E.T. is the greatest ending in film history. What you did with that, and I don't know how much of that is in Melissa Matheson's script, or you intuitively knew, there's so little dialogue. It's John Williams' score. It's their faces. It is like 10 or 15 minutes of just like pure, raw emotion. I don't know what my question is, except that, like, was that on the page? No, I know that's on the page. If that was just all in the shot planning, that was all, and there were no storyboards for that.

30:46That is the stuff you come, I come to work in the morning and it's not even work. I come to an experience in the morning with these kids that were having a virtual experience and they inspired me to figure out how to put the scene together. And they were also so fragile and so tender that we had to work really fast before it wore off, you know. There's also an amazing train sequence in this film. Not to put you on the couch, Stephen, but trains come up a lot in your films. Yeah, I guess they do. The stableman's had a train, but it was only this big. But let's get back to Close Encounters. The railroad crossing, Last Crusade has the amazing opening sequence, War of the Worlds, that flaming train coming across.

31:25I love trains. What can I tell you? I love trains. I'm of the train generation. When I was a kid, we only traveled by car, mainly by train. in Baltimore and Ohio, connecting where I was born, Cincinnati, and my parents, their parents lived there. We'd always take trains up and down the East Coast. I love trains, too. Yeah, yeah. I love being on a train. You guys have, I mean, you especially have done some significant action in your career, but like being in a sequence like that, what are your memories of being inside of a Steven Spielberg set piece like that? I think it was just, I mean, for me, unlike Emily, I hadn't done anything like that.

32:05Tell Josh what you call me. Stunty Blumty. He actually just calls me Stunty. I don't think he's called me Emily in many moments. For a long time. Is that kind of like Cockney rhyming slang? Yeah, I guess. Oh, yeah. It could be. Yeah. Don't do that one. No, for me, it was like I'd never done anything like that. And there were just a lot of questions. I kept asking Stephen, so how do we, will it be moving? is there a chance I will die today but it was really there were sort of elements you know it was broken up obviously but every element felt so thrilling and it is a kind of testament again to I mean these things might be normal again I don't know but I think I imagine the way Stephen works is that it's about creating an environment that feels real so that you can respond in a naturalistic way and so everything felt vivid and including the whiplash of getting rear-ended we do a scene and it was like and at some point you're going to get rear-ended and you're like great we're both going to be in the car when it happens is it I mean you've done so many iconic chase sequences and like you would think there is just like a certain number in someone's brain and yet somehow you keep you iterate in a different way I mean Well, because Disclosure Day is a story about a heist of eight decades of the proof that UFOs exist and have existed.

33:45And so because the whole premise is about getting away with something, whistleblowers stealing the truth to try to unleash the truth on the world while the powers to be are marshaled against them and they go after them. And so there's velocity. But the movie is not just about that. The movie is more human than alien by far because the movie really is a statement about who we are as human beings and who we are to each other and who we have to be more of to each other. Well, all of the films you've dealt with, the aliens are essentially, they're not about the aliens. They're about how we receive them, how we communicate with them.

34:24And this is a movie that, yes, it is an alien movie, but I think people will see that It's really just how we, how would, how could the world react in different ways. Yes. And also, what do we have to contribute? I mean, these two characters have tremendous gifts that they're not even aware they possess. And these gifts are traumatizing and shocking and unpleasant for them until especially the Margaret character realizes that she could put these gifts to good use. More Happy Say Confused coming up.

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36:00I know on the press tour, you've been talking obviously a lot about belief, belief in aliens and the revelations, especially in recent years. Is that a conversation like on set too? I would imagine like with just the sheer number of hours, like at what point does that conversation enter the picture? I think because we all went down this collective rabbit hole of watching documentaries and congressional hearings, everything. I think we all just felt very similarly after it. I think everyone just felt there was just such truth to it and such authenticity to people's revelations and their belief systems.

36:35And it was so inarguable, I think, to all of us. I don't think we had all gone down the rabbit hole as intensely as we did when we all got this part in a Steven Spielberg movie about aliens. You kind of dive headfirst down there. I'd always believed, I mean, I've always thought it was, it would be insane to imagine that we had scratched the surface of the universe even, you know. So why would we assume we're the only intelligent way for us? Well, because we are so, as a species, a highly intelligent species, we are so self-possessed. and in certain circles it doesn't leave room for the imagination to you know consider life out there right is this you've talked about how you sadly have not had contact is that is the ulterior motive of making this movie and this crest tour to really like send out into the universe like guys I'm ready here we go I mean I feel like with all the work I've done with here we go with my with my filmography, but between Close Encounters and E.T.

37:38and Men in Black, which I co-produced, and War of the Worlds, and all the films, and finally arriving at this closure date, I haven't even gotten what my agent's gotten out of me, which is 10 % of a sighting. My agent gets more out of me than I have ever gotten out of them. I keep waiting. And if they don't make an appearance after this movie, I'm not going to give up on them, but I'm telling you, I'm not going to be, when they really land, I'm not going to be in attendance. No, no, you guys had your shots. You had your shots, yeah. You've been pretty, outside of War of the Worlds, you've been pretty kind to aliens out there, I would say.

38:18Because I cannot believe that a super civilization from maybe millions of light years from here that have somehow found the secret between the space-time continuum, the event horizon, where they can get here in minutes, not in light years. I can't believe that they would make that journey to conquer. I think that is something that we project based on our own human history of power and conquering. Okay, we've got a bunch of Steven Spielberg fans here, to say the least. Here's a debate that's come up more in recent years, I feel like. Raiders of the Lost Ark or Last Crusade? Do we have a preference?

39:03Don't leave me out of this one. Let these guys answer that. Well, I love them both. But interestingly, I don't know, Stephen knows this. I got on a phone call recently with a friend of mine. I have like a film club. And I got on the phone to a friend of mine, he's a big film buff. And somehow, talking about doing this promotional tour, we just found ourselves in a conversation about our favorite and ranking and doing nonsense. Anyway, then suddenly two of our friends were on the FaceTime. It went on for an hour and a half with full arguments. And one of the arguments was this one. Raiders for me.

39:41Okay. For the record, it could be bad. I'm going to just be contrary to anything Josh says. So I'm going to say... I want to even it out. Just give one. It's very difficult because Raiders was the first one I saw. And I have this very lasting memory in my childhood home of watching it with my dad and just being blown. My hair was like blown backwards by it. I thought it was so wonderful. I think I'm going to say Last Crusade, there's something about Sean Connery and Harrison and that together. That dynamic was just golden for me. And as much as we all, we find Stephen's breathtaking set pieces so exciting, it's those human moments, the reconciliation between them, the humor.

40:26And we all recognize those dynamics with family members. you know, we've been there, we know those two. And it was just this different gaze on Harrison's character. So I just loved it. Another film about belief, in a way. Yeah, it's about belief. The Holy Grail is the reconciliation between father and son. That's the Holy Grail. It just was, I think probably Lost Crusade is the one I've seen the most. Oh, okay. I'm going to contribute to this conversation. Go. And it's not about my favorite of the three or the four. I wouldn't have the life that I'm living right now if I hadn't made two Temple of Doom because that's where I met King Capture.

41:02And that's where my life began. I will say for the record, the opening sequence of Temple of Doom. I mean, opening Raiders, iconic. And all of them. Temple of Doom's opening is maybe my favorite of all time. Oh, great. Thank you. Harrison Ford in a white tuxedo. What more do we need? We're the Red Rose. That's right. I'm guessing, I mean, outside the indie films and Lost World, you've never been like a sequel guy, generally speaking. No, like, no. I mean, I've resisted a lot of big, successful movies to create franchises from them. And I'm lucky that Universal went along with it, you know, because E.T., by popular demand, I just didn't want, I thought it was the perfect ending, and I didn't want to risk the reputation of the first film by making a good but inferior second film.

41:52Is that kind of a lesson on, I guess, Jaws was out of your hands, obviously. I was not in control of Jaws, but they offered me the whole franchise, and I said, I'm done. After that first one, I'm done. But also, I didn't think, I kept saying, fellas, we blew the shark up. We're going to get another 26-foot. People hardly bought into the fact that the shark was as big as it was in Jaws, but they did buy into it, and it was not mythology. It was science, and it was a sea hunt movie. It was a big, grand adventure of survival. Where are you going to get another 26-foot-long shark? And they said to me, well, we're going to build one.

42:29And I said, you've got a credibility gap problem. So I did get involved in that. In those ensuing years, because virtually every one of your films could demand, by Hollywood standards, a sequel, have you actively had to protect E.T., Jaws, Indiana Jones reboots? Like, I mean, are you in control of all those things? I am. I'm in control of Indiana Jones with George Lucas, and I'm certainly in control of reboots of everything post-ET, but not E.T. because I didn't have the clout to – if Universal wanted to, they could go ahead and make E.T. without me. Well, that's showing you a lot of respect that they have resisted that.

43:06It shows a lot of respect that they're not doing that, but they could if they wanted to. Wow. So a lot of your films involve obsessive characters. These two characters, I would say, are obsessive in their own way. In the best possible way, would you call Steven an obsessive? Yes. In the best possible way. Of course. In a relentless pursuit to create something extraordinary, he's obsessive. But I think that that's what you want. I want someone who's leading us through this. You want your director to sweat this whole stuff. That's the thing. But for Steven, I've never known anything like it. He would be up all night.

43:42Texting. Texting. And I would wake up sort of groggy at 6 a.m. You'd see the time. At 3 a.m. He was up, like, tasting around. And then you feel like you're not working hard enough. I think Stephen's doing this. I didn't sleep very much on this last one. No. Not at all. I mean, we alluded to this earlier. That's remarkable and wonderful to me that you all are, you know, again, having accomplished what you've done. Like, it is ground zero in each one. It's starting from scratch. Nothing is assumed. Yeah, you can maybe get people in the theater. but to keep them in the theater and engaged, you have to deliver the goods.

44:16Do you feel relief after, at what point do you feel relief? Is it like when you've cut the last day? No, I feel sadness and I start mourning the loss of my friends. I mean, I don't make friends on every movie. I make acquaintances and some of them are very valuable to me and I admire almost everyone I've ever worked with. But I don't come out of every movie with abiding friendships. And I came out of this film with deep friendships. And I just had these guys and Coleman and Eve and Colin and Wyatt. And we are always texting each other. And we will continue to do that. We have a chain of six. Yeah.

44:56Don't we? And it kicks off. Like it gets really funny. You look at your phone and there's 26 messages you've missed. And you're like, oh my God, what have I missed? And it starts off sincere. Yeah, and within like an hour, it's chaos. We are abusing Colin. We're abusing. Is he all on the thread? Oh, yeah. Colin gives back. He gives back. He buys back. He does occasionally. But he's just, he's abused on this text chain, he really is. I mean, Stephen, how engaged are you in, I mean, there are probably a billion memes from your films and just GIFs and all that sort of stuff. And no one has contributed more to pop culture in a myriad of ways than your films.

45:36I would imagine it just all seeps in like you don't have to seek it out it just kind of like comes to you Here's what I feel in terms of all of that if I retired and stopped making films and producing films and just went off to Tahiti where I have actually been six times when they started talking about me in this podcast the last one was Bora Bora which was even prettier but if I should do that That's when I think all of this stuff would seep in. But I don't want to stop, and I love what I do. And I love raising my family and helping in the raising of my grandchildren. That's my primary work in this life right now.

46:21But the close second to that is being able to tell a good story. And until I stop telling stories, I can't even consider what it would be like for me to really take in the last 61 years or however long it's been. I don't think you ever will. And I have a good filter system, so it doesn't go to my head. Well, it's like the shark. It keeps moving. You can't stop. A little bit like that. Also, I can't stop eating. So that's the ethical thing. Yeah, we're... An eating machine. Since this is a rare opportunity, these are some of the questions I've always wanted to ask Stephen Steele, where you guys can weigh in too.

46:57Some of these are appropriate for all. Stephen, did Elliot ever see E.T. again? No, never saw him again But he did dream about him So there was a psychic link between the two of them You should notice that E.T. touched Elliot right here And said, I'll be right here He touched him there And that is for the rest of Elliot's life Thank you for you for talking about, Emily Did that just happen? I think you just cried a little bit as you did that. Can we have a second class? I retire. Did Roy Neary ever come back? Did Roy Neary ever come back? Yeah, because the exchange that took place at the beginning when these characters come out of the mothership and they're all dressed in period garb from the 18th century, from the 19th century, even my dog comes flying down the Mylar ramp.

47:55That was my dog, Elmer. That was over. And then, of course, Cary Guffey comes back. Barry Goddard, little kid, little boy, amazing little kid. He was like three and a half, four when he made that movie. So yes, he will come back. But he's not going to come back to his family. Right. Yeah. I watched Close Encounters yet again the other day and an emotional moment that hit me that was surprising, again, not a question here, but just to say it, is Francois Truffaut's moment where he's communicating via the hand signals to the aliens at the very end. And it's just, Francois' performance of that always is remarkable to me.

48:31Well, he was a remarkable, look, besides the fact he's one of the most remarkable filmmakers we've ever had, he had the honor of experiencing his art. It just moved mountains culturally. Francois was a very nice guy, and he was a really good actor. And when I saw Wild Child, I started thinking of him to be in this movie, but I didn't have the courage to call him so I started casting other French actors or interviewing other actors to play Monsieur Lacombe. Oh yeah, I interviewed Trentignon, I interviewed Des Pardus, I interviewed a lot of big French actors who were just starting out, some of them were just starting out, some of them were already movie stars.

49:14And I was about to make an offer to an actor, Trentignon, and I said I'm going to just try to get a hold of Francois just to see if he would at least read the script. and I didn't talk to him, but his agent agreed to give him the script. And then I got a telegram. Remember those days, 1976, I got a telegram from Pontreau Troupeau and it simply said, Dear Mr. Spielberg, where do I report for wardrobe fittings? And that's how he told me he was going to do the movie. That's as great a communication as ever. Okay, last few things, I promise for you. This is more rumor control that I've always heard over the years.

49:52did Harrison Ford turn down playing Alan Grant in Jurassic Park? Yes, he did. He may not remember that, but I sure do. Were you crushed with him? I wasn't crushed. I was crushed. But then Sam Neill came, available, and he's Alan Grant, but it now belongs to him. You can't imagine anyone else now. Belloc swallowing the fly in Raiders of the Lost Ark. I saw it in the editing room. I discovered it in the editing room, and we had no other takes. It was one take. I would have used another take because once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. The audience, too. You pitched yourself to direct James Bond at least twice?

50:33Twice. To Cubby Broccoli himself. Come close? No, he turned me down twice. What? Yeah. That cannot be true. It's true. He turned me down the telephone twice. I don't know. He just said, we have our own stable of directors we go to. and I asked him after Jaws, and I thought the success of Jaws didn't faze him. Then I asked him again after Close Encounters, and he said no. And the third time he called me, and he said, I'm making a film called Moonraker. In honor of your film, Close Encounters, you want to use the five notes, the Johnny Williams, da-da-da-da-da. Did you tell him to take your life?

51:11No, I didn't. Sorry, busy. You know, when Bond, where someone presses a key lock, you know, they'll make those tones. And I said, I'll make you a deal. I will give you the five notes if I can do the next Bond film. And he said, we don't need the notes that badly. But I gave him the notes anyway. The good news is, if you had done Bond, maybe there's no Indiana Jones, frankly. That's right. Right? That's right. Exactly. George Lucas asked you to direct Return of the Jedi, but there was a TGA dispute. No, he never did. Never. Oh, no. He's never offered Return of the Jedi. Oh, ever. No, never. Is it true you nearly directed Harry Potter and imagined it as an animated film?

51:47I developed it. I developed it with Steve Klovis. I developed a second draft with Steve, trying to turn it into something that I was interested in directing. And I cast, at least I proposed. I had just worked with Maggie Smith on Hook, so I proposed Maggie Smith. I knew Richard Harris. He was a friend of mine a long time ago. I put him in the movie and Robbie Coltrane. So we can thank you for those. No, that was it. But then I got out of the movie for personal reasons. Sure. And no anger, no big controversy. I stepped out. And then my protege, Chris Columbus, stepped in and made two great Harry Potter films.

52:23He really did. He really did. Amazing. All right. We're going to end with this. Emily, you've done this with me before. They happily say I confused profoundly random questions. This is for all of you. Anybody can jump in. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Dogs or cats? Dogs. Dogs. I'm allergic to cats. We're all dog people, I believe, right? Dogs. Dogs. What does anybody here collect? What do you count as a collection? Go on Josh, yours is dorky I can tell. What is it? Go ahead. No, it's ceramics. I collect ceramics. I collect ceramics. You're in a safe place. But you make beautiful ceramics. I mostly collect.

52:59You would have been so impressed. My daughter brought home, she made out of porcelain a fennec fox, curled up, white porcelain. I'm going to take a picture and send it to you. I was like, Violet, that is a triumph. It was so fabulous. Josh will be very impressed. I'm going to send you a picture, but it was really amazing. Stunty, what do you collect? Stunty collects. I mean, it's really tragic. It's very boring. I have more sneakers than is humanly possible for a closet to hold. I'm obsessed with sneakers. I would imagine the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, that's your archive of everything? Well, I think between films, I collect dust.

53:38I don't have a big collection of anything. Favorite video game of all time? I only know how to play Mario Kart. I don't see anything I know how to do. Goldeneye? People always love Goldeneye. NCC's a classic. Or Red Dead Redemption 2. Is that right? Yeah. For the fishing. For the fishing, yeah. Coin-op Space Invaders. Classic. Can't go wrong. What's the wallpaper on anybody's phone? Anybody want to divulge what's the background on their phone? It's my children. from when they were really little. I don't remember. I usually ask what's the worst note a director has ever given you. You guys are welcome to say that.

54:21That obviously doesn't apply to you. Is there a direction you've given that you've regretted over the years? Or what's the most common direction? I'm sure there's a number of directions. But I don't remember any of them. I blocked them conveniently. What's the worst note a director has ever given you, Josh? I don't think I've had bad notes. It's mostly... Well, you're young. Just getting started, man. All right, finally, in the spirit of happy second fused, an actor who makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're immediately... Carmen Domingo. 100 % Carmen Domingo makes me... Emma Stone makes me happy.

54:56For me, G's wilder. I just have to see G's face. Danny Kay. Love it. A movie that makes you sad. Oh, E.T. E.T. Oh, yeah, E.T. Stephen, what makes you sad? A movie? The best years of our lives. And finally, for all of you, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that? Mine's not a food, but Nespresso pods. I do not, I can't get my head around them. Really? Do you not like the taste of the coffee? No, and I don't understand why we just don't make coffee. Right. We know how to do it, guys. We did it for ages. It's immediacy, which you don't like. You're a man of pace, I realize.

55:44Yeah. This is why you're happy in a garden. Thank you. There you go. Anybody else? Food? I'm a bit confused by beetroot. I'm not about them. She says, looking like one. That's how you're working it out today. Tempe. Oh yeah. What's the point? What is tempeh? What is tempeh? What is it? Is it? It's manufactured food, isn't it? What is it? It's in health food restaurants, but why? Yeah. Steven's next film is investigating what's up with tempeh guys. It's going to be an example. It's going to be called Indiana Jones and Raiders of the Last Tempeh or something. This is for tempeh. I tried to suppress my inner geek.

56:29Emily, how did I do? I feel like it was too much. You did very well. It was great. I felt you were actually very quiet when you walked in here. I was entertained. I was so entertained by this. There's a bit more swagger to you, Josh, but you were a bit humbled. No one has ever said swagger in the Josh Harlow segment. Congratulations to all of you on Disclosure Day. It's a remarkable piece of work. And Stephen, honestly, on behalf of literally millions of people, thank you for contributing so much to my childhood, my career, my love of storytelling. Thank you, sir. Oh, thank you for saying that.

56:57Thanks, Josh. Thank you, Josh. We did it. Great inner geek. That was really fun. Was that okay? That was better than that. That was so good. Of course you can keep that. You get to take that. I can't believe it. It's fantastic. Pretty much that whole interview, I've been thinking about this. What do you think? Will you put sandwiches in it? Yeah. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't sure to do this by Josh.

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