In short
The Marshes is an encore about Steve Marsh and his family’s decades-long secret: Steve’s mother Jean gave up an older child for a closed Catholic adoption in 1969. After the secret surfaces on a 4th of July, Steve and his siblings push for Jean to write the adopted daughter, Leisha (later Natalie), to request contact. The episode follows the slow, emotional process of letter-writing, adoption-agency steps, and eventual in-person meetings—ending with the families building a relationship and Natalie becoming part of their lives.
Guest backgrounds
Steve Marsh (adult son; writes; family history includes addiction and trouble in youth). Jean and Pete Marsh (Steve’s parents; Jean carries shame and fear about contacting Leisha). Megan Marsh (Steve’s sister; nurse). Kevin Marsh (Steve’s brother; home-appliance repair; struggled with meth). Natalie/Leisha (adopted; now married with two kids; grew up near Minneapolis).
Key claims
The adoption was closed, so contact required Jean’s letter. Shame and procrastination delayed action for years. Correspondence showed Natalie was open, cautious, and ultimately integrated into the Marsh family.
Notable examples
Ouija-board anecdote predicting Leisha’s existence; Jean’s handwritten letter; social worker “Natalie” update; first dinner meeting; later backyard barbecue and “Happy Sibling Day” text thread.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Story of Steve Marsh and His Family Secret
4:16 to 14:00
Jonathan Goldstein narrates Steve Marsh's experience discovering a family secret.
“As a doctor, would you write me a reference letter for medical school?”
The Search for Leisha Marsh
14:00 to 17:00
Steve seeks help to contact his sister Leisha, adopted at birth.
“because he and Kevin got into a brawl over a Beastie Boys CD.”
The Search for Leisha Marsh
18:15 to 19:37
Steve seeks help to contact his sister Leisha, adopted at birth.
“ChatGPT Work can make sense of it all, turning scattered inputs into ready-to-review work.”
The Search for Leisha Marsh
19:44 to 19:54
Steve seeks help to contact his sister Leisha, adopted at birth.
“That's mintmobile.com slash heavyweight.”
Letter Writing at the Marshes
19:54 to 28:00
Steve and his parents gather to write a letter to Leisha, sparking family stories.
“In Minneapolis, I pick Steve up in my airport rental, and we head to his parents' house for some letter writing.”
Preparing to Write the Letter
28:00 to 31:36
Listen as Gene and Steve discuss writing a letter to Leisha, reflecting on their past.
“because I feel the ball is in her court.”
Steve's Second Thoughts
31:36 to 33:10
Steve shares his concerns about the potential emotional impact of reaching out to Leisha.
“Steve and I head back to the rental For a while, we just sit there Think that they're going to get those forms off?”
The Letter is Mailed
33:10 to 33:44
After some delays, Gene finally sends the letter and application with the help of a social worker.
“And then, after a half a year of foot dragging, I unexpectedly get word that Gene has mailed the letter and the application.”
The Letter is Mailed
35:08 to 36:30
After some delays, Gene finally sends the letter and application with the help of a social worker.
“Before you jump back in, you know that feeling when feedback, notes, and data are coming in from every direction?”
The Letter is Mailed
36:38 to 36:59
After some delays, Gene finally sends the letter and application with the help of a social worker.
“Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash heavyweight.”
Show all 19 chapters
Correspondence Begins
37:15 to 41:32
The story unfolds as Gene hears back from Leisha, now Natalie, and begins a cautious relationship.
“Once Leisha said she was open to seeing Jean's letter, the social worker mailed it on to her.”
Preparing for the Meeting
41:32 to 42:01
Gene prepares for an important dinner meeting with her daughter Natalie, contemplating their relationship.
“Natalie and Gene continue to exchange letters, and eventually, Natalie decides they don't have to go through Stacy, the social worker, anymore.”
Preparing for Dinner with Natalie
42:01 to 45:00
Steve prepares to meet Natalie for dinner, reflecting on family dynamics and concerns.
“It's been a full year since Natalie received that first letter, and Steve wants to invite her to the wedding.”
The Dinner Meeting Begins
45:01 to 47:40
The Marsh family meets Natalie and her husband, navigating initial awkwardness.
“Like, there's some pain with my mom, like, that she failed us or something.”
Reflections After the Dinner
47:41 to 49:59
The Marsh family reflects on their emotional dinner with Natalie, feeling blessed.
“Steve sees the look on her face as she glances it over.”
Steve’s Gratitude Towards Natalie
50:00 to 55:24
Steve expresses his feelings and gratitude towards Natalie, acknowledging their connections.
“the effect all of this is having on her.”
Casual Gatherings and Bonds
55:25 to 56:00
Steve and Natalie bond further during a casual barbecue, showcasing family ties.
“she kind of deserves I think cool stuff in life and like you've been really cool man and that's choice it's been two and a half years since the search for Natalie began.”
Backyard Barbecue Gathering
56:00 to 58:20
Join Steve and friends for a backyard barbecue filled with laughter and nostalgia.
“But today, they're all just hanging out.”
Family Connections and Relationships
58:20 to 1:00:27
Steve discusses his evolving relationship with Natalie and family dynamics.
“Like, we have a family text thread named after the episode.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:06Pushkin.
0:11Hello, welcome to the studio, Kalila Holt. I've been welcomed to this studio so many times. We're going to be listening to an encore presentation of The Marshes. This is one of my favorite episodes. What is it about it that you think makes it a favorite? Part of it is just Steve. I think he is like such a lovable, enjoyable person to hear from. But also just like it's one where I felt genuinely emotional in the reporting at what was unfolding. And then my hope is that we translated that into the episode itself. And this is an episode that you produced. Yes, it is. With your own bare hands. On the computer.
0:52Brick by brick. Yeah. I mean, this was years in the making. Yeah, this was at the time it was the longest production of an episode. I think this was the first episode that we did not name after an individual, but a group of people because we, I don't know, by the end of the story, it felt like every single person brought something unique to it. And it was everybody's heavyweight in a sense. That's true. All right. Well, great. Let's give it a listen. I'm excited to. It's been a while. Yeah, me too. This is the Marshes, and I should say that at the very end of the episode, we return all these years later with an update from Steve Marsh.
1:35Stevie Lane:It's not going to be what you expect. Stick around and find out. Wow. You're not going to believe what you find out. Yeah. You're not going to believe what he looks like today. I don't even know what he looked like originally. But first, I invite you to listen to these choice words from our sponsors.
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4:15Hello? As a doctor, would you write me a reference letter for medical school? Yes, I would write a reference letter, yeah. What would it say in it? It wouldn't necessarily be favorable, Jonathan. I'm sure a little bit favorable. Here, let me get you started. Okay, to whom it may concern. Go ahead. You take it over. Go ahead. John? Yeah. John, you would be a terrible doctor. The worst ever. and you don't listen and you just keep going on and on. You'd be doing all the talking. Yeah, but a doctor has to ask questions to find out the symptoms. Yeah, but you wouldn't actually listen to the answer because you don't listen.
4:53You'd be arguing with patients, talking about yourself, you'd be thinking about something else. Whoa. Alex just liked one of my tweets.
5:09From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, The Marshes.
5:28I first met Steve Marsh at my brother-in-law's wedding. In conversation that night, Steve was given to making soulful observations, punctuated by the word man. Steve is a big guy, shaggy-haired and comfortable in his own skin. He's a little like the dude. No matter where he is or what the occasion, he gives off the impression of wearing a comfy bathrobe flung open wide to the world. It's perhaps also worth mentioning that while Steve wasn't invited to the wedding per se, All the guests were both happy and unsurprised to see him. Of course Steve would be there, and his entrance felt like a lovable St.
6:09Bernard had just wandered into the reception hall. Would you send a wedding invitation to a St. Bernard? Of course not. But would you be darn pleased to see one show up? Absolutely.
6:26The next time Steve and I crossed paths was at another wedding. While everyone was inside drinking and eating, I found Steve outside, standing by the Hudson River, looking preoccupied. It was there, smoking from his pack of menthols, that Steve told me about his mom and a secret she'd been carrying around in shame for almost 40 years. Steve said the only reason he even knew about it was because it had slipped out by accident. And now that it had, he didn't know what to do about it. So after the wedding, we set aside some time to talk. How's fatherhood going, man? It's great. It's really great.
7:07Before getting into it, Steve and I catch up. He's just gotten engaged, and because he's Steve, the proposal he made was an elaborate production involving a ring baked into a cake and an entire restaurant of people cheering, his fiancée crying. Makes regular guys like me look real bad. I know, man. Her brothers are pissed at me, too. They're like, great job, dude. With the pleasantries out of the way, we get to the unpleasantry, his mom's secret. Steve says he first learned of it in 2008 on the 4th of July. I was riding my bike, and my phone was going off, like, nonstop. And I thought it was, like, a girl or a drug dealer.
7:51It was, like, late. You know, it was, like, 2 in the morning. So finally I pulled my bike over, And I saw it was my sister. My sister had called like 15 or 16 times, you know. Steve's sister, Megan Marsh, was up at the family's sprawling trailer lot in rural Minnesota, a place they call Marshland. On summer holiday weekends, it's tradition for the entire Marsh clan to head to Marshland to drink, hang out, and just be the Marshes. Seeing all the calls from Megan, Steve worried there was trouble up at Marshland. So I called, and I was like, what's going on? And she was hysterical. You know, like, Steve, if you knew that we had...
8:35And I was like, wait, hold on. I'm trying to get all this out, and I'm crying and hysterical. This is Steve's sister, Megan. Between violent sobs, she explained to Steve what had happened. Up at Marshland, Steve's parents had gone to bed, but Megan continued to hang out with a handful of people around the bonfire. There's probably like five, seven of us sitting around the fire, and we start talking about Ouija boards. So, to keep up her end of the conversation, Megan tells the group an anecdote about her mom, how a Ouija board had accurately predicted the main facts of her mom's life. It had prophesied her future husband's initials, P.M.
9:21for Pete Marsh, as well as the amount of kids her mom would have, three. And my aunt is sitting, you know, three feet away from me. And my aunt said, well, she had four kids.
9:40And initially I'm confused. You know, I've been drinking a little bit, so it's slowly coming into my brain what's happening. I look down at my fingers and counting, Stephen, me, Kevin, what? What are you talking about? And then I look up around the fire. Everybody stops. Everybody's silent. And they're all staring at me. So standing in this park, talking to my sister on the 4th of July, she told me that my parents had another child, that we had another sibling that they gave up for adoption years before they married. The Marsh kids were full-grown adults when they learned of their full sibling, a little girl, 100 % Marsh, that their mom had named Leisha.
10:37When Steve's parents, Gene and Pete, started dating, It was just a fling. And when Jean became pregnant, they decided to put the baby up for adoption. The unusual thing, though, is that after that, Jean and Pete ended up staying together. Seven years later, they had Steve. And now they've been married for almost 50 years. But all the while, neither of Steve's parents ever spoke of their eldest child. My family is, like, shockingly open. And so the fact that they, like, sat on this secret, it was wild. It's now been years since the truth came out, and the Marshes want to do something with that truth.
11:20But Steve says procrastination is a family trait. And in this case, decades of his mother's shame has turned that procrastination into total inertia. But Leisha is never far from any of their thoughts. Megan wonders what it would be like to finally have a sister. And Steve's younger brother, Kevin, wonders if Leisha's a redhead like him. Kevin scans every room for red hair. And then there's Steve's dad. A few days after the secret slipped out, Steve met up with him, as he does every week. My dad is a retired truck driver and kind of a tough guy. And every Monday night we shoot shotguns together in the summertime.
12:01In the car, on the way to go shooting, Steve asked his dad how often he thought about Leisha. And he said, every day. And we drive. It's like a half-hour drive on the freeway. And about halfway there, no shit, man, this is like a short story thing. It's almost too corny. But there was two ducks, like two adult ducks and three little baby ducks crossing the freeway. And my dad dipped like deep into the shoulder of the freeway. and then recover the car. And, like, we waited a while, and he's like, did you see me miss those ducks? And I was like, yeah, yeah. And it's one of the few times I've seen my dad cry.
12:52But as much as the Marshes think about Leisha, when it comes to actually trying to find her, they're all waiting on Steve's mom. I think my dad, for as much of an alpha, tough guy, I think my mom runs his shit, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of up to her. And I think she is scared about what maybe she'll find out. Like if Leisha has hard feelings about this or if Leisha's life didn't go as well as it could have or how Leisha will feel to meet her family that's intact and went on to have three more kids. Like wouldn't that be weird? Sure, the family's intact, and as Steve explains, the Marsh kids are all close and doing well now.
13:40Megan has a career as a nurse, Steve writes, and Kevin repairs home appliances. But growing up, there were a lot of drugs and a lot of trouble. Kevin had a serious meth problem, and Steve and Megan drank too much. Steve almost flunked out of high school, and Kevin and Megan both dropped out. There was one Christmas the Marshes spent visiting Kevin in treatment, and one weekend Steve spent in jail. because he and Kevin got into a brawl over a Beastie Boys CD. And I'm just wondering, like, Leisha, who was raised in a totally separate environment, I just wonder what she's like, you know? Our house was so loud growing up, and, like, I always thought my family's kind of weird.
14:26Like, they drink Windsor 7-Up, like it's going to be vanishing from the face of the earth. What is a Windsor 7-Up? That's the Marsh family drank, man. Pardon my ignorance. 7-7, man. It could be Seagram's too. Canadian whiskey and lemon-lime soda. But finding out whether Leisha is like a Marsh, steeped in Windsor and chaos, isn't so simple. So the hospital no longer exists. The hospital where your mom had her. Right. And it was a closed Catholic adoption. Like, my parents never met the couple that adopted Leisha.
15:08Steve has no information about where Leisha ended up. He had a friend with connections run the name Leisha Marsh through an FBI database, but found nothing. It's almost certain Leisha's name isn't even Leisha anymore. Because it was a closed adoption, the only way to reach her is through the adoption agency. Steve's mom has to write Leisha a letter asking to make contact. But whenever she's tried to write in the past, her sense of shame gets the better of her. It's like she wants to do it. She said she would do it. Like, what do I do? You know, like, how do we make this happen?
15:50And this is why Steve has come to me. He needs a spur to action. Someone who isn't a Marsh, to make sure the letter gets written. We could use some help. It's almost like when you want to go to the gym or something, just have somebody else who's going with you. Some kind of accountability. Because when we talk about it as a family, and we do, whenever we get together, my parents are all game for it, but then it just doesn't happen. And it hasn't happened.
16:21Stevie Lane:Do you need to really kind of show up with a pad of paper and a pen and, you know, place it on the table in front of her? Right, like, let's do this now. And so in a bid to do this now, I tell Steve to phone his mom and tell her to clear her schedule. Because his wedding friend Jonathan is boarding a plane to Minnesota and heading straight to their house to make sure she writes that letter. I just think we need a little help, you know? Yeah. Well, what you need is your mother to get off her ass and do this. So who is this guy? Just tell me again. After the break, this guy pays a visit to the Marshes.
17:21Stevie Lane:If you're a music fan, here's a new podcast to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Niall Rogers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, that moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed.
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20:18Hi. In Minneapolis, I pick Steve up in my airport rental, and we head to his parents' house for some letter writing. He's nervous, which is not helped by my economy-sized car.
20:30Stevie Lane:Do you have enough room? I think it's as far back as it goes. How tall a man are you? I'm 6 '4". Steve struggles to shoehorn his body into the passenger seat. Do you want to sit in the back seat? No. You could. I'm sorry. No, it's all good. Although Steve says it's all good, thanks to my Minnesotan to American translator app, I know that he's in fact deeply resentful. You're going to have to direct me because I know where your parents live. But wouldn't it be weird if I did?
21:05We arrive at Steve's parents' place. It's a one-story rambler, cluttered and cozy. Hi. Jonathan. Hi there. I'm Gene. Hey, Jonathan. I'm Pete. Hi, Pete. How the hell are you, Ma? We settle in around the kitchen table. Pete makes his way through his daily two pots of coffee, and Jean quietly stares down at a blank piece of paper. To help spur her letter writing, I ask how she and Pete first met, and Jean becomes animated, telling me about a party at which Pete stumbled in late with a group of friends. They were all drunk. I can't remember if he kissed me on the knee and bit me in the ankle or vice versa.
21:46That's like what the serpent did in the biblical story. I think so, and I should have never eaten that apple. Soon after, Jean moved into a new apartment building, where in a delightful sitcom twist, Pete was living right down the hall. That Thanksgiving, Pete stopped by Jean's place, drank her entire bottle of Windsor, then drunkenly proceeded to show the dinner guests his gun. Guns are no big thing for me, because I got them laying all over the place. To illustrate, Pete reaches on top of the kitchen cupboard and pulls down a.45 automatic. He places it on the table, next to the pie that Steve brought.
22:26How many guns do you have hidden around the house? There's one over on the fireplace, 20 downstairs.
22:38The party, the bottle of Windsor, the gun, these are all parts of the Marsh family origin story that Steve knows well. But the part of the story that Steve has never heard is how his parents went from a casual fling to a decades-long marriage. I got pregnant. Mm-hmm. I went home and told my mother, and she flipped out on me. I remember leaving. I was down in the basement with my mother in the laundry room. I just remember running up the stairs and crying and getting in the car and driving back to my apartment because I was trash. In her mind. Jean came from a strict Catholic family. When she got pregnant, her mother told her she could only visit home after dark, carrying a coat in front of her stomach.
23:28At one point during the pregnancy, Jean slipped on the ice and had to go to the hospital for hemorrhaging. And my mother came into the hospital and said, you can't even have a baby, right?
Read the full transcript
23:43I mean, she was so disappointed in me. I don't think she ever forgave me for that. That's the one thing I said to her before she died is, I am sorry for disappointing you. Leisha was born premature, so the doctors kept her at the hospital for a week. This meant Jean ended up spending a week with her newborn daughter. I remember holding her and crying and telling her, you know, that I hoped she'd have a good life and said I was sorry that I couldn't keep her. After that week, Jean signed away her parental rights. I didn't think I could raise a child by myself. But she never said. What? He never said, hey, let's get married and raise this baby.
24:40And I never said it either. But his mother, Alice, just took me in as this, you know, I felt like I was part of the family. So I felt this family love that I wasn't getting from my own family, you know. Pete's mom told Jean how much the whole family liked her, how they hoped she would be the one. And that painful time brought Gene and Pete closer. They ended up really falling in love. And eventually, they did get married. And all this time, Leisha, responsible for them growing into love together, having three more kids, being a family for going on 50 years, was out there somewhere, living a different life with a different family.
25:26And I don't know that Dad and I, we've never sat down like this and talked about it. It's just kind of something that happened 48 years ago.
25:44For 48 years, Jean has quietly marked Leisha's birthday by repeating the same silent prayer, I hope she's having a good life. And it's that hope that, ironically, made Jean think twice about ever searching for Leisha. She told herself that if Leisha was happy, She didn't need to disrupt that happiness by introducing her to the Marshes and their chaos. Our family was so loud and so, you know, drug use and, you know, not going to school. And it seems like there was always so much going on. Did I really want to bring somebody else into that? It was problems. That I was bringing her into more problems.
26:30It was hectic. It was more than hectic, Steve. And I'd go do my Avon door-to-door, and somebody would say, would you like to come in for a minute? And I'd sit down, and I always said, it was like I was sitting down in their beige. You know, they had this peaceful house, neat, nothing out of place. And then I'd walk in here, and it'd be, like, jangled. So while Steve's motivation for seeking out Leisha is pretty simple, he has a sister and he wants to meet her. For Jean, it's more complicated. Her greatest hope is that Leisha is happy and well, that she did the right thing in giving her up. But if Leisha is good, didn't fall into drugs, did do well in school, and had a good life in the beige, then trouble wasn't something genetic, a fate that runs through the marsh blood.
27:27It was to Jean's thinking, something in the parenting. Her parenting.
27:41I just, I want the kids more or less to be prepared that she may not want anything to do with us. I'm open to meeting her. I'm open to just pictures. I'm open to having her tell me I'm a piece of shit. That's fine. I'm willing to do whatever she wants because I feel the ball is in her court.
28:07Worst case scenario would be if she had passed away and I never tried.
28:17Did you want to have pie now? Oh, should I get the ice cream?
28:21Stevie Lane:You want ice cream? Steve serves the mixed berry pie that he brought and turns us to the matter at hand. So, um, do you want to try writing the letter? Yeah. We should do it now, so... Yes, because your mother is a procrastinator. Right. Well, I am too. But you probably got it from me. If Leisha's a procrastinator too, that's the only way we'll know. Gene finds it easier to talk than to write, so Steve offers to type the letter as Jean speaks it aloud. Then she can copy it down by hand. Jean stares down at the table, trying to get started. I don't know what to say. I feel bad because we stayed together.
29:08Why? And I feel like it's been 48 years now. Why are you coming around now? That's what she'll be thinking. Oh, just say hi. How are you?
29:26I remember your name. I remember your birthday. I remember holding you and telling you that I wanted you to have a good life. Um, Leisha.
29:47I'm stumbling for words, wondering how to, probably because it's been so many years. But wondering how to... I mean, how to explain the fact that I haven't tried to contact you all these years. I don't think we need to get that heavy. I'm your mom. Give me a call. But also you do want to acknowledge why this was meaningful to you. You know, you're like, it's tough. God.
30:23Three years after you were born, your father and I were married or got back together. Wow, we got back together right after. Oh, God.
30:38See, now it all seems so stupid.
30:45But, like, you can't change the past. No, I can't. And you needed to live through this in order to have perspective on it. Yeah. So, three years after you were born, your father and I were married. and now have two sons and a daughter who are open to making contact. Or does open sound... I think all of us would like to meet you when you're ready. I don't think maybe it needs to be any more than that. That's good. And then just put our names. Hugs and kisses. We all watch as Gene copies the letter over by hand You did good, Gene Thank you, Drew
31:37Steve and I head back to the rental For a while, we just sit there
31:45Stevie Lane:Think that they're going to get those forms off? It's going to happen this week, for sure Really? You think so? Yeah, I think so It doesn't happen.
31:59It doesn't happen in the next month or the one after that, partly because Steve hasn't been spurring his mom. Since we all sat down in Jean's kitchen, Steve has developed second thoughts about contacting Leisha. I'm just nervous that she's, like, angry about the way things turned out. And I'm nervous of, like, what kind of impact that will have on my mom. I've had some conversations with friends. It's like, what are you doing this for? I don't know. Like, there's real potential for sadness. Two more months pass, and I'm having trouble being a spur to Steve's spurring. Hey, Steve, it's Jonathan speaking, just calling to check in.
32:45I can't get a hold of anyone. Mr. and Mrs. Marsh, this is... the man who came over to your home some time ago. Another two months go by, and still no movement. And so I decide that maybe it's better to just leave them be. Maybe the marshes would rather just forget the whole thing and go back to being the same marshes they always were.
33:18Hello?
33:19Stevie Lane:Gene? Yes. Hi, Jonathan. And then, after a half a year of foot dragging, I unexpectedly get word that Gene has mailed the letter and the application. From there, a social worker was assigned to the case. Her job? To find Leisha and ask if she's open to receiving Gene's letter. And not long after that, the social worker gave Gene an update. She got a call from Leisha, and she said she was very open to seeing my letters.
34:14Stevie Lane:If you're a music fan, here's a new podcast to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Niall Rogers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hit makers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, that moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed.
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37:02Stevie Lane:Includes up to 20 gigs hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. Okay, you guys want coffee? Yeah. Hello. How you doing, everybody? I have a coffee, Mom. I brought cannolis. And back at the Marshes to catch up. Once Leisha said she was open to seeing Jean's letter, the social worker mailed it on to her. But after that, Gene heard nothing for months. Then, one afternoon at work, Gene got an email from the social worker. The subject heading read, The letter you've been waiting for. Attached was a scanned copy of a letter from Leisha. Dear Gene and Pete, thank you for your patience while I formulate my first response to your letter.
37:53My name is Natalie, and I grew up in a suburb of Minneapolis. Leisha is now Natalie, and it turns out she grew up just 20 miles from where the Marshes live. Her adoptive parents are even graduates of the same high school as Jean. Growing up, Natalie always knew she was adopted, and she loved the parents who raised her. Natalie is now married, with two kids. The best advice I've received since I opened your letter was to take it slow. And then she sent a picture when she was a little girl. Do you see a resemblance? Oh, she's definitely a Marish man. Yeah.
38:32Dear Natalie, Pete and I were so happy to receive your letter and picture. It was truly an answer to my prayers. Let me know if you have any questions. I will try to answer them to the best of my ability. And so, a correspondence begins. Dear Gene and Pete. Dear Natalie. Who did I get my auburn hair from? Pete was a redhead. Who can I thank for my unibrow when I was younger? My grandfather had very bushy eyebrows, so he's probably the culprit. Love, Natalie. Love, Gene and Pete.
39:12Natalie is taking it slow. She's cautious, and Jean is following her lead. But sometimes it can get overwhelming. Dear Natalie, we want to wish you the happiest of birthdays on the 17th. I've wished it every year since you were born, and I'm so happy I can finally tell you. I hope someday we can meet, but until then, know you've been loved, Pete and Jean. Natalie's responses are gracious. Dear Jean and Pete, my kids constantly ask me about the day they were born. We moms think about those moments always. Someday you will have to tell me about our day. But there are a lot of some days. No specific plans.
40:00Even after months of correspondence, Jean and Natalie are still going through Stacy, the social worker. They don't exchange phone numbers. They don't even know each other's email addresses. It's tentative. I mean, I've had a relationship with these three kids for 40 years, you know, and I haven't had that with her. And sometimes that's sad, you know, that we don't have that, but I think we'll get there. You want to get there? Yeah, I'd like to get there. Jean finds herself staring at Natalie's picture while she's at work, idly thinking about what the little girl in the photo's childhood was like.
40:42And then comes the guilt in not having been able to give her what she needed. And all the while, Natalie is so close. Why don't you call her up and say, come on over? No, because she doesn't want that. Then we all don't live to be 100 years old at the same time. That's true. You're getting on out of time pretty soon. While for Pete, it's pretty straight ahead. For Gene, it's more complicated. Gene wants Natalie to enter her life. but at the same time, she worries about what Natalie will make of that life. How will Jean be able to have Natalie over to her home? In Jean's mind, the place is always so untidy, the grouting in the bathroom unfinished, the tiles in the entryway in need of repair.
41:29So while Jean's wait for Natalie is filled with hope, it's also filled with fear.
41:39Time ticks by. Natalie and Gene continue to exchange letters, and eventually, Natalie decides they don't have to go through Stacy, the social worker, anymore. They can email each other directly. And a few months after that, Gene asks Natalie for her phone number. I just want to be able to hear your voice sometimes, Gene says. And Natalie says yes.
42:09Steve's wedding is a month away. It's been a full year since Natalie received that first letter, and Steve wants to invite her to the wedding. But Gene doesn't think a big family event is the right setting for everyone to meet for the first time. So Gene asks Natalie if they can all go out for dinner. Natalie writes back and says, I think we can make that happen.
42:34Hi. How are you? Good dog. Good doggy. And today's the day. I arrive at Steve's house as he gets ready to meet Natalie for dinner. His fiancée Maggie and his brother Kevin are there too. Nice to see you. Good to see you. I'm Jonathan. Kevin. How are you? Good. Steve has lent Kevin a pair of jeans because Kevin was wearing shorts and feared they might not be appropriate for meeting your sister for the first time. Steve is still getting dressed. This is my only pair of clean pants at the moment. I don't want my new sister to smell me, you know what I mean? That would be awful, right? So I want to appear to be clean.
43:20Since the Marshes are worried about making a good impression, they've barred me and my microphone from the dinner. This, in spite of my important work, documenting and interloping. Instead of saying, f*** all of you f***ing rotten f***s, I tell Steve that it's all good. Hey, I'm getting pretty good at this Minnesota talk. I think we should leave in five or ten minutes. Okay. And we should not smoke weed? I already did earlier. I took Visine, though. I'm fine.
44:07Steve has made a reservation at a pizza restaurant. On the drive there, he worries. But as usual, it isn't for himself. I worry about my mom. The worry has always been twofold. Firstly, what if Natalie's life hasn't turned out well, and it's all Jean's fault for having given her up. But based on Jean and Natalie's correspondence, Natalie has a nice husband, sweet kids, and a career that keeps her busy, flying to far-off places like Mexico City and Singapore. So now, with that first worry allayed, the second worry rears its head. What if Natalie is not only not in bad shape, but in great shape, all due to Jean's lack of parenting?
44:51In other words, Steve's now worried that, As far as Gene might believe, it isn't the genes. It's Gene. A person with the same genetic makeup as your three kids who did get all these things. So, yeah, there's... I think there's some pain there, man. Like, there's some pain with my mom, like, that she failed us or something. Or that we failed her.
45:22Oh, shit, it's 618. Are we going to make it? But isn't it supposed to be 6.45 that you guys are meeting? 6.30, 6.30. No, but your folks will be there. Are they? Our family is predisposed towards being late all the time. A few blocks from the restaurant, Steve drops me off at the side of the road. He says they'll let me know how it goes. Okay, bye, you guys. Have fun.
45:52Later I'll learn that Pete, Gene, and Megan were uncharacteristically on time and are there to greet Natalie and her husband when they arrive. Gene hugs Natalie and introduces her to Megan. Natalie and Megan stare at each other. They look so similar. I wish I could wear my hair like that, Natalie says, and Megan smiles. Steve, Maggie, and Kevin arrive as the table is being prepared. While they wait, they all make nervous small talk. Pete fills the silence by talking about how old his shoes are, about fishing. The others join in talking about goldfish they've owned, the relative merits of Pac-Man versus Miss Pac-Man, restaurants they like.
46:34They compare their heights.
46:42Eventually, the host leads them outside to a round wooden table built around a tree. The group orders pizza and wine. They all cheers. Everyone has questions for Natalie. They don't totally understand what her job is, but it has something to do with selling accounting software all over the world. They get the impression that she's in charge of things. Natalie has a confidence. She sits beside Kevin, who shows her a photo of himself coming in second in a hot dog eating contest. Natalie seems impressed. During the salad course, Gene tells the story of how when Steve first found out about Natalie, he joked, thanks for keeping me, Mom.
47:22It's not too late, Natalie interjects. You could still be abandoned. Everyone laughs. Natalie shares the Marsh's dark sense of humor. It looks like Natalie is coming to Steve's wedding.
47:41It's the kind of night where it seems like it could rain at any minute, so Jean grabs the check. Steve sees the look on her face as she glances it over. Mom, he says quietly, so Natalie won't hear. We'll help you. The kids all go home that night and request Natalie's friendship on Facebook. Jean and Pete drive home, with Jean smiling all the way. When we came home that night, Pete was opening the door, and I just put my hand on his shoulder, and I said, you know, God looked out for her all these years. And so we've been blessed. We truly have. It was joyous. All the kids were so comfortable. Everybody was asking questions.
48:27There was a lot of laughter. There was a lot of, you know, joking and talking. It was very emotional. and there's still a lot of thought process there that's going to maybe be with me all my life. But I know that she had a good life, and she's got a wonderful life now. I couldn't have asked for anything more. I really couldn't have.
49:00You felt like you wanted Natalie to have a good life. Right. But that was complicated because you felt like it might reflect on your parenting in some way. So I'm wondering, how do you feel about that now? You still have guilt. But I think I just realized that no matter what I did or didn't do, they've all grown up to be wonderful human beings. and we can move on. All the things Gene had worried about, that Natalie might resent her, that the family might be too much for her, in the end didn't matter. That night at the restaurant, things were simple. They were all just happy to be together.
49:54But there's still one thing. For months, Steve's priority has been his mom's feelings. the effect all of this is having on her. All the while, though, a feeling of his own was slowly taking shape. At the pizza restaurant, Stephen wanted to say something to Natalie all night, but he couldn't find the words. What I really wish I would have told her is thank you, man. Thank you for you existing, like your miracle of coming into the world and the way it happened, like you brought my parents back together. But then, how do you thank someone, a stranger? Forgiving your family life. Forgiving you life.
50:34Hey, how are you? Good. Good to see you. Good to see you. In my role as Loyal Spur, I've invited Steve and Natalie to my office so Steve can at least give it a try. It's the first time Steve and Natalie have gotten to talk one-on-one since this all began. I never thought... I never thought someone would search for me. This is Natalie. Wow. You just never, you never even considered that. Steve explains that during the search, the Marshes worried that they might not live up to Natalie's expectations. You know, you're such an accomplished person. Well, gosh, my LinkedIn profile is really doing its job.
51:18I'm a PR major. I mean, honestly, you seem like such a funny, even keel person. You have a wicked sense of humor. It's cool. You're funny. You have an iPhone watch and you're killing it. That was a gift. Everything's a gift. My husband, that's Al. No, but don't put me on a pedestal. I don't deserve it. Natalie's uncomfortable with her life being held up as a success story. She tries to explain that her house had its own share of chaos. Her brother faced some of the same challenges with drugs and other troubles that the Marsh kids faced. It feels like what she's trying to say is, blood, parenting, I don't know why things turned out the way they have.
52:13But Steve is undeterred in his effort to offer Natalie credit. And so, tentatively, he gets to the thing he's been trying to say for a while now. I mean, I feel like it's weird to thank somebody who didn't elect to be adopted. But, like, maybe my parents would have never gotten back together if it wasn't for you. You brought them together. I think it was kind of a fling kind of situation. And it turned into a 45-year marriage. I don't know the exact stats. Natalie can see that Steve is struggling, but she's struggling too. If Steve is trying to say thanks for my life, how does she simply say, you're welcome?
53:11So instead, Natalie offers thanks of her own in the way of a story about Steve's mom and her mom. When my mom was around, she and I were really, really close. She wanted to thank, you know, I wish I could thank her. She kept saying, I just wish I could thank her. Oh, man. Right? And when she passed away in 2004, she couldn't. Yeah. So the first thing I wanted to do was do the thinking. That decision set the trajectory of my life. I'm so lucky to be where I'm at. In the end, Steve and Natalie are both grateful for the same thing, the family that they ended up with.
54:11Everyone always asked, well, have you ever thought of reaching out? I always had the answer. I'm like, no, I'm good. I have a great family. Once I open that door, I can never close it. When I received the letter, I can honestly say, I didn't have this figured out. And I thought about what my path would be. If I'm on a crossroad of, do I pursue this or do I let it go? As Natalie speaks, you can see a thought flash across Steve's face. All this time, he's been trying to thank Natalie for something she didn't even decide, rather than for the thing that she did decide. When you put it like that way, when you put it like that, like you did have a choice here whether to even talk to us, you know?
55:07Like, you could have been like, no, you opened the door. And so, yeah, I guess, Natalie, I do thank you for that, man. Like, the way that you've been with my mom has been super cool, man. And I thank you for that. Well, I...
55:31she kind of deserves I think cool stuff in life and like you've been really cool man and that's choice
55:55it's been two and a half years since the search for Natalie began. And in that time, Natalie's interactions with the Marshes have been based around occasions. Gene's birthday, Steve's wedding. But today, they're all just hanging out. Steve and his new wife Maggie wanted to have everyone over for a backyard barbecue. Even me. On our way to the yard, Steve gives me a quick tour of the house, his shelves loaded with books, his plants. Is this an Iowa school? Why? Uh, is that indigenous to this area? Oh. Natalie shows up with her husband and two kids. Pete, the tough guy who thought about Natalie every day for almost 50 years, is there to greet them.
56:42Well, how have you guys been? All good. Oh, God. I've got to have a hug. Absolutely. Oh, hey. There you go, buddy. Shortly after, Kevin shows up with a bottle of vodka and a big bag of Frisbees. Who wants to play Frisbee? Hey! Oh, there he is! And then Megan, who heads straight for Natalie. Hey, guys! Hey! But there's one person who's running late. Should I call your mom and see where she is, or...? I don't know. As it turns out, Gene is still stuck at the grocery store, buying some last-minute stuff for the party. Classic, Steve says. the marshes are unorganized, chronically late. And maybe that's true.
57:28Or maybe Gene is pacing the aisles, procrastinating, nervous about what Natalie might make of how the marshes live with her ayahuasca plants and vodka frisbees. Hello. Hello. Hello. How's it going? But in the end, Gene doesn't wait years, weeks, days, or hours. She's only late by 15 minutes. Good, we've caught a lot of water. Maybe Jean wasn't procrastinating at all. Maybe she wanted to show up late, to be the last one to walk into the backyard, with everyone already there, and see the whole family, hanging out, joking and talking, everyone just happy to be together.
58:14Stevie Lane:Oh, my gosh, look at that. Oh, my gosh. That's a glass.
58:32guitar solo
58:54Stevie Lane:home now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damaged deposit take this moment to decide if we meant it if we tried I felt around for far too much From things that accidentally touch I got a message from Natalie yesterday. I got a text for Happy Sibling Day. It was a sibling day yesterday. Are you guys in regular touch? Oh, yeah. Like, we have a family text thread named after the episode. It's called The Marshes. um but uh like just my mom was over to babysit Monroe last night is your son my son yeah and uh my mom was just like on the phone with Natalie and there's Natalie you know they're talking about Natalie was talking about her work like they're it's just cool to see man you know like my mom has a relationship with her I have a relationship with her I I went to um her son's basketball game and brought my son.
1:00:02It's really nice that you're doing stuff like that. Well, I wanted to knit our families together, you know, in a way. And I asked Natalie if she would be Monroe's godmother. Oh, man, that's so nice to hear. What would she say? Yeah, she was down, you know. She's like a late-in-the-game kind of gift from the universe. That's really nice, Steve. It worked out, man. turned out to have a really happy ending. Yeah, and we're friends as a result. Yeah, and then we're friends as a result. I live here now. And now you guys live in our neighborhood? Yeah, that's right. We do, yeah. Do you want to babysit Monroe on Tuesday?
1:00:44Yeah, always. That'd be great.
1:00:56Stevie Lane:Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together. We'll be back next week with another Encore presentation, and along with it, another update from our guest. If Emily's Emily, I mean, chances are, yeah, if we're around.
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From the publisher
This week, we talk to Steve Marsh from our episode, The Marshes. The family has changed in ways they could never have guessed at when the story was first published in 2019.
After a drunken slip of the tongue, Steve and his siblings discovered a secret their mother had been keeping for almost 40 years. Steve decides to step in and help his mom take action.
This episode was produced by Jonathan Goldstein, Kalila Holt, BA Parker and Stevie Lane, with editing by Jorge Just. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Lulu Miller, Hans Buetow, Damiano Marchetti, Alex Blumberg, and Jackie Cohen. The show was mixed by Bobby Lord. Music by Christine Fellows, John K Samson, Blue Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord. Our theme song is by The Weakerthans courtesy of Epitaph Records.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
