In short
Heavyweight revisits “Elise” via a failed phone-in, then an update call. Elise recounts her estranged father Billy’s disappearance to the Philippines without explanation, years of holiday-only emails, and his refusal to answer questions. The episode centers on whether Elise can get closure and what “moving forward” looks like when the truth is withheld.
Guest backgrounds
Elise is a longtime listener from Washington, D.C. Her father Billy is a former Englishman who became a used car salesman in Chattanooga, later living in the Philippines. The episode also introduces Martin, a British man who believes he is Billy’s son, and notes another possible half-brother.
Key claims
Billy is remorseful and wants reconciliation, but repeatedly promises detailed explanations and never sends them. He also gave a new daughter Elise’s first and last name. Elise later learns Billy was imprisoned in the Philippines, deported to Guam, ended up in Thailand, and died there in early 2024/2025.
Notable examples
Billy’s credit-damaging business in Elise’s name; cops arriving with guns for a car; affairs and a Christmas abandonment; the phone call where Billy avoids explaining his departure; the later “three-sentence” emails pattern; U.S. embassy outreach during hospitalization; Elise holding his ashes.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOElise's Call to Jonathan
3:30 to 4:53
Jonathan receives a call from Elise, who shares her story about her estranged father.
“If I have to make groceries in the house, then I've got to paint the door, so...”
Elise's Childhood Memories
4:53 to 6:00
Elise reminisces about her close relationship with her father before the estrangement.
“A while back, my producers and I decided to try a phone-in episode.”
The Impact of Estrangement
6:00 to 7:22
Elise explains the pain of her father's sudden departure and its effects on her life.
“Elise is a longtime listener, first-time caller from Washington, D.C.”
Seeking Answers
7:22 to 8:00
Elise discusses her desire for an explanation from her father about his disappearance.
“and rent a car and just drive around, and it was amazing.”
Elise's Father's New Life
8:00 to 10:12
Elise reveals her father's new family and the emotional turmoil it causes her.
“Pretty soon after, they got married and had Elise.”
The Complexity of Forgiveness
10:12 to 11:28
Elise reflects on her complex feelings of forgiveness towards her father.
“She'd express some of her pain and anger in hopes of provoking a more substantial dialogue.”
Jonathan's Proposal
11:28 to 13:14
Jonathan proposes to call Elise's father, exploring the possibility of reconnection.
“And then he actually named his new daughter my name.”
Planning the Call
14:01 to 14:50
Learn about the host's plan to connect Elyse with her father.
“But then, I've never hosted a call-in show before.”
Billy's Response
18:41 to 22:36
Explore the unexpected response from Elyse's father, Billy.
“Thunder and lightning, as I told you, rainy season.”
Preparing for the Call
22:37 to 23:10
Witness the setup for the emotional call between Elyse and her father.
“If you know something about me, Kalila, my house gets ants.”
Show all 22 chapters
The Call Begins
23:11 to 28:00
Experience the intense moment when Elyse connects with her father.
“That is kind of how you know it's spring, is when the ants come marching on into the house.”
Elise's Heartfelt Expression
28:16 to 30:13
Elise shares her feelings of anger, sadness, and betrayal regarding her father.
“Any communication that we can get, I think is really good.”
Billy's Attempts at Justification
30:13 to 35:06
Billy attempts to explain why he left without providing substantial answers to Elise's questions.
“I do find it very insulting that you gave another child my name, my first and last name.”
Avoiding the Past
35:06 to 37:59
Billy struggles with discussing the past while Elise seeks clarity about their relationship.
“Explanations of every length and level of detail.”
Elise's New Understanding
37:59 to 42:04
Elise reflects on her father's absence and finds answers through another connection.
“As Billy tries to push away the past while cowering from the future, the present takes hold, the one Billy can't deny.”
Martin's Search for Acknowledgment
42:04 to 43:18
Elise learns about Martin's struggles with his father Billy's rejection.
“And from what Martin is saying, he's not the only one.”
The Implications of DNA Testing
43:18 to 44:17
Elise grapples with the emotional implications of taking a DNA test.
“Martin and the other possible half-brother are planning to take a DNA test, and they'd like Elise to take one too.”
Elise's Holiday Message to Billy
44:17 to 45:16
Elise reflects on her relationship with Billy and her plans for holiday communication.
“In other words, Elise will tell Martin, I see the same things you do, and it's not you.”
Updates on Elise's Family Dynamics
45:16 to 46:40
Elise shares updates about her father and family dynamics, including a new sibling.
“Now that the last month's rant is scheming with the damaged deposit.”
The Complexity of Grief and Anger
46:40 to 49:58
Elise opens up about her mixed feelings regarding her father's passing.
“Who were you explaining to that you were headed for the closet?”
Reflections on the Impact of Their Conversation
49:58 to 52:04
Elise reflects on the phone call with her dad and its implications for their relationship.
“Do you feel like, I mean, do you have any feelings left?”
Elise's Current Life Status
52:04 to 52:42
Elise shares her personal life updates and the stability she finds amid family chaos.
“Yeah, I haven't done any DNA testing more from like a data privacy concern.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:06Pushkin.
0:11Hi, Jonathan. Hi, come on in. You should make yourself at home in the studio because it is like a sec. You've been spending so much time in here. Yeah, I actually sometimes just sleep in here. It's just easier than having to go home. I don't know if you should be telling me that. This might be a conversation with HR. Yeah, what are we listening to today? Speaking of the studio, today we're going to revisit an episode that started with us sitting around in the studio. It's called Elise. Yeah, of course. I love this episode. It's a really good one that came to us, as you'll hear, in an unconventional way.
0:46Yeah, we were trying something new. We were trying to do a call-in show. But in our case, that basically failed. But it succeeded because we wouldn't have had this story without it. And we have a check-in with Elise at the end about what's happened since and truly some of the wildest updates, I would say, of any of these update conversations. Yeah, I know. You have a tendency to skew towards clickbait, but in this case, it's true. It's very eventful. Yeah. What else is there to say? To quote Jay-Z, what more can I say? Hello? Yeah, okay. I thought you left the studio. Yeah, let's lean back. Let the story unfold.
1:33And let this story take us away. Oh, but before any of that, a word from our sponsors. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. If your finance team spends more time finding data than using it, if there's one entity here, and one here, and one here, and one here, if scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI-native ERP solution that's powerful, painless, and proven. Learn more at intuit.com slash ERP. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. It's a great time to apply for an Apple Card. You'll love earning unlimited daily cash on every purchase.
2:25That includes 3 % daily cash when you buy the latest iPhone, AirPods, and Apple Watch at Apple. Through this special referral offer, when you get a new Apple Card, you can earn bonus daily cash. To qualify, you must apply at apple.co slash getdailycash. daily cash. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Offer may not be available elsewhere. Terms and limitations apply. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales.
3:05Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at odoo.com. That's odoo.com.
3:25Hello? Hey, how is it that a seal keeps balls on their nose? May I go now? No, no, I have something serious. If I have to make groceries in the house, then I've got to paint the door, so... You're Painting the door to your house? Yeah, I'm going to paint the door red. It's going to be very nice. But you know what a red door symbolizes, right? No. Le Port Rouge is a bordello. You're kidding, right? That's how sailors would know. They would have them down by the Vieux Port, and they would be able to know where they could make whoopie for money. Hang on. Qu 'est-ce que tu fais? Qu 'est-ce que tu fais?
4:04de courir contre mon. Au revoir, Jacques. Sorry, Don. Who's that? That's my neighbor. Could you ask him about the red door? Jacques? Le porte rouge. Une question pour toi. Je voulais peinturer ma porte rouge. Mon ami dit ça signifie une bordelot. Non, je connais pas. Je connais pas. OK. C 'est une blague.
4:31From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, Elise.
4:52So now what happens? They're just going to call? We'll see. Oh boy, get ready for... A while back, my producers and I decided to try a phone-in episode. Larry King, Rush Limbaugh, and other Goldstein-esque personalities had found success with them. So why, I wondered, from the depths of my ignorance, couldn't I?
5:16And so, full of hubris and hope, we open the phone lines and invite the whole world to call in with a small moment from their past. Something to revisit and resolve, all during the course of a five-minute phone call. This is why I got into this business, the feeling of live radio. As I'm to learn, the thing about a phone-in show is that you need people to phone in. And nobody is. How's everyone's day? But just as I'm starting to wonder if Gimlet Media has forgotten to pay its telephone bill again. Oh, here we go. Ready? Nope, we're answering. All right. Hello, this is Jonathan speaking. Hi, Jonathan.
6:10How's it going? It's going okay. What's your name? Elise. I'm very surprised I got through. This is so exciting. I guess you really lucked out. Elise is a longtime listener, first-time caller from Washington, D.C. And as it turns out, her call proves not only the first of the day, but also the last. And this is not just because we don't receive any other calls. It's because I'm completely drawn in by the story Elise tells me about herself and her dad. What's his name? Billy. Billy? Yeah. So I guess, basically I'm estranged from my father. When Elise was a kid, Billy was the fun parent, the one who always had hours to play with her.
7:00The guy who, in spite of being something of a macho man, gave himself over to playing beauty salon, even allowing Elise to paint his toenails. Before the estrangement, Billy and Elise were really close, which is why not having any relationship now hurts the way it does. She was my dad. Our idea of a family vacation was to show up in a country with no plan and rent a car and just drive around, and it was amazing. That's what life with dad was like. It was like every day was an adventure.
7:37Even the way Billy met Elise's mom was like something out of a movie, the first act of a film noir. Billy was an Englishman driving through Chattanooga on a tourist visa when he got into a terrible car accident. And the physical therapist assigned to him was Elise's mom. Billy was still in a wheelchair when he talked her into sneaking him out of the hospital for their first date. Pretty soon after, they got married and had Elise. Billy never went back to England. Instead, he stayed with his family in Chattanooga and became a successful used car salesman. I have a lot of things in my upbringing and life with him to be very grateful for, in addition to all the craziness.
8:20In reference to her dad, Elise brings up craziness a lot. Like the crazy way Billy ruined her credit by opening a business in her name. Or the crazy time he drove home a brand new car only to have cops come looking for it with their guns drawn. Or the crazy way he destroyed his 24-year marriage with a series of affairs. There's one Christmas where he bailed on the family only to spend the holiday with another woman. And for all of these things, no matter how jarring or painful, Elise has found it in herself to forgive her father. But there's one thing she hasn't been able to forgive. About five years ago, he moved out of the country without telling us.
9:06Us is Elise and her mom. Elise's parents had been married her whole life, but had recently separated around the time of his disappearance. Her last good memory of her dad is watching him wave from the crowd as she crossed the stage at her college graduation. Days later, he disappeared. And disappeared is the word for it. Elise says that when she went over to his house, she found food rotting in the refrigerator and all the furniture still there.
9:40For a week, Elise had no idea what had happened to her father. And then, she received an email. It simply said he'd be gone for a little while and that email was the best way to stay in touch. There was no further explanation. The next time she heard from him was on her birthday. Six months later, a Christmas note. And that's more or less been the pattern for the last five years. On holidays and my birthday and stuff like that, his emails are very short, like three sentences or less, sort of happy whatever holiday it is. I hope you're well. Love, Dad. At first, Elise tried responding. She'd express some of her pain and anger in hopes of provoking a more substantial dialogue.
10:28But Billy would refuse to engage. So after an email pressing her father for answers, a few months would pass with no response. And then an email would land in Elise's inbox, wishing her a happy whatever holiday it is and hoping she's well, love dad, as though nothing was ever expressed and nothing was ever asked of him. Eventually, Elise stopped responding to his emails entirely. We don't have a mailing address for him. I don't have his phone number. The only connection I have to him is his Comcast email address. Do you know where he's living? He's in the Philippines. That's all I know. My mom has it pinpointed to a region, but he never told me where he was going or why.
11:12He never explained why he left. And this is what Elise wants, an explanation for his departure, an emotional, honest conversation where she can ask him why and what happened. Because in the five years since she last saw him, a lot has happened. He started a new family. He also has, like, a wife and a kid. Uh-huh. And then he actually named his new daughter my name. Elise. Oh, my God.
11:45I just find it so insulting. It's just such a transparent replacement. Like, I moved to a country and, like, made a new you. So when people search for Elise on Facebook, the first result that comes up is new Elise and the page Billy made for her. Which means old Elise is forced to constantly explain that this is her dad's new daughter from his new family, who also just so happens to have her name.
12:22Like, he just wants me to, like, love him and be happy with him again. But the elephant in the room is that he's living mysteriously somewhere for half a decade and we've never discussed it. Elise feels like she and Billy are living in two different realities. She, in the one where her father abandoned her, and he, in the one where he did nothing wrong. She wants her dad to validate what she's seen and felt, to understand. Otherwise, how can they move forward? Are you wanting to have a relationship with him? Part of me is because he's also, he's like diabetic, and like he's just kind of old and sick and might die, and I might never know.
13:05He's 65 and possibly working a very physically taxing job. He was working on container ships when he first moved over. And I've been passively choosing the route of not having a relationship, but the fear and the guilt gets worse with time. And what would pursuing a relationship look like? That's what I'm trying to figure out. It's like, yeah. I mean, he's my dad. And I feel like he's trying to maintain a relationship with me, and I just don't know how to work past it. I know I can sometimes come across as something of a meddler, but I only decide to get involved in the business of upturning people's entire lives after hours, sometimes even days, of careful consideration.
14:01But then, I've never hosted a call-in show before. And so, adrenalized by the single flashing light on my switchboard and the imperial perch of my slightly elevated swivel chair, I dive in. Would you want me to call him up? And I say this, by the way, like, with the idea that this could be a terrible, terrible idea. I'm not championing this idea. This could be a stupid idea. it's better than any of the ideas that I've had for the past five years. So, yeah, I think it would be helpful. My idea is to serve as Elise's emotional advance scout, to call up her dad and see if he might be ready, after all this time, to talk to Elise and offer some answers.
14:49Given what Elise has told me about her dad, I can't say I'm optimistic about that. But then again, I can't say I'm optimistic about anything. Good luck with the rest of your calls. No one's going to call anyway, so. I'm so sorry. No, this was a good call-in show.
15:09If you know something about me, Kalila, my house gets ants. That is kind of how you know it's spring, is when the ants come marching on into the house. Right. But now this spring, I'm locked and ready. Why? Well, because when the ants show up, guess who's going to be showing up too? Who? Pesty. Everything I need is included in this one box. I've got a rechargeable sprayer. I've got a customized formula depending on where you live and your needs. So the box that I received is for all the kinds of things that Minnesota springtime will bring. I've got my gloves. They thought of everything here. And what's so great about it is that I could take care of all my past needs by myself.
15:52I don't have to get on the phone. I don't have to fork out a lot of money and get a whole team of people over here with their van, with all the dead beetles on the side. So this spring, when the ants show up. When the ants come marching in, Pesty is going to send them marching out. Very well put. At this point, consider Pesty my bestie. bugs hate to see you coming with pesty go to pesty.com slash heavyweight for an extra 10 % off your order that's p-e-s-t-i-e.com slash heavyweight for an extra 10 % off hey it's ryan seacrest for jewel osco it's stock up savings time now through march 31st spring in for store-wide deals and earn four times a point look for in-store tags to earn on eligible items from Hunts, Nerds, Pillsbury, Lowry's, Breyers, Quaker, and Culture Pop.
16:46Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event-long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in-store or online for easy drive-up-and-go, pickup-or-delivery. Restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile, with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just$15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.
17:22Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. And so it comes to pass that I email Billy. As I await his response, I imagine various scenarios. Maybe Billy will treat me like a student loan officer. Sorry, sir, you've got the wrong Billy, he might say. Or perhaps he'll try to convince me I have the story all wrong, that Elise and her mom are the real villains.
18:00After a week and a half, I finally hear back from Billy, and his actual response is more surprising than any I might have imagined. It's just a simple note apologizing for the delay. Billy explains it's the rainy season in the Philippines and it's been messing with his internet. But, he says, he really wants to talk to me. To be honest with you, he writes, you were the only hope I have of communicating with Elise.
18:36Hello? Oh, hi. This is Jonathan Goldstein speaking. Hey, Jonathan. It's a terrible evening here again. Thunder and lightning, as I told you, rainy season. But anyway, so Elise contacted you?
18:56Although Elise's last memory of her dad was at her graduation ceremony, Billy has a different final memory, and as he describes it, it was one of the most painful moments of his life. It was in the midst of the separation from Elise's mom. I was walking out of the garage carrying a box, and you can see straight into the house from the driveway. And Elise was in the dining room. Well, when she saw me, she darted back into the living room and kind of hid herself so I couldn't see her. But I know for a fact that she saw me because we made eye contact. I get that this had to have been painful for Billy.
19:48But as Elise's interlocutor, I tell him this isn't about his pain. It's about his daughter's pain and her anger. And if they're to speak, he should be prepared for that. I can't imagine that's something Billy wants to hear, and I'm worried how he'll react. As far as her feeling anger on her mother's behalf, that, I can assure you, is completely understandable. Once again, Billy has managed to surprise me. I basically, putting it bluntly, shit all over that woman on many occasions. It was one particular Sunday morning that she was up cooking breakfast, and the phone rings, and there's a woman on the phone, and the woman says, hey, this is Angela, can I speak to Billy?
20:50and my wife said, well, who are you? And she just opened the door. She said, well, I'm his girlfriend. Can you imagine a wife getting a phone conversation like that on a Sunday morning in the middle of breakfast saying I'm your husband's girlfriend?
21:11If Elise approaches that with you, I can assure you that every single word that she says is accurate. And if it's not a really ugly picture, she's left something out, because trust me, it's a really ugly picture. But there's absolutely nothing that I won't be completely honest and open about. Jonathan, I have absolutely no problem discussing anything with you. After hearing everything Elise had to say about Billy's unwillingness to own up, his refusal to engage, I was expecting the worst. But Billy seems genuinely remorseful, apologetic, and even eager to hear his daughter out. He tells me he kept his distance out of fear that Elise didn't want to hear from him at all.
22:07But he thinks about her all the time. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older. I don't know if it's because I feel like I've lost my daughter. I don't know what it is. But I was really excited when I found out that she had reached out to you to make contact with me. because to me that means she wants to get our relationship back and that is desperately what I want.
23:08If you know something about me, Kalila, my house gets ants. That is kind of how you know it's spring, is when the ants come marching on into the house. Right. But now this spring, I'm locked and ready. Why? Well, because when the ants show up, guess who's going to be showing up too? Who? Pesty. Everything I need is included in this one box. I've got a rechargeable sprayer. I've got a customized formula depending on where you live and your needs. So the box that I received is for all the kinds of things that Minnesota springtime will bring. I've got my gloves. They thought of everything here. And what's so great about it is that I could take care of all my past needs by myself.
23:51I don't have to get on the phone. I don't have to fork out a lot of money and get a whole team of people over here with their van with all the dead beetles on the side. So this spring, when the ants show up... When the ants come marching in, Pesty's gonna send them marching out. Very well put. At this point, consider Pesty my bestie. Bugs hate to see you coming with Pesty. Go to Pesty.com slash Heavyweight for an extra 10 % off your order. That's P-E-S-T-I-E dot com slash Heavyweight for an extra 10 % off.
24:47event-long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in-store or online for easy drive up and go, pickup or delivery. Restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culture East, that's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culture East, that's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your Wi-Fi was more than just Wi-Fi? What if your Wi-Fi made everything in your whole house just work together better? Well, Xfinity Wi-Fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite, high performing tech.
25:19Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping right, because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the Wi-Fi to your device with Xfinity. And have you ever asked yourself, what if my Wi-Fi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity Wi-Fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the Wi-Fi.
25:55It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having Wi-Fi that's got your back Xfinity. Imagine that.
Read the full transcript
26:10Elise. Hi. How are you? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. I've invited Elise to my office in Brooklyn so that we can call her father together. It will be the first time in five years that Elise hears Billy's voice. How are you feeling? Very nervous. You are? Yeah. Do you want Want some coffee? Nothing calms the Kishkas better than a nice cup of coffee. Elise declines and we settle in for some small talk while I set up the call. As we chat, I'm struck by Elise's cultural sensitivity. Wasn't it Canada Day recently? It was. Happy Canada Day. Thank you. I fumble around, incapable of an appropriately reciprocal well-wish.
26:55Hmm. We're three days after Canada Day, so that makes it the 3rd, maybe the 4th of July? Nah, I got nothing. I tell Elise about my conversation with Billy, how remorseful and open to talking he seemed. She's still worried, but says she wasn't even expecting things to progress this far. I'm very surprised he spoke to you. I'm very surprised he was candid with you. So that's a positive. Right. And that's a change. Yeah. So do you want to, shall we try this? Sure. Make the call? Yeah. So it's Monday, 6 in the evening, so it is 6 a.m. Oof. In the Philippines. It's early. Yeah. Well, let's try them.
27:44Okay.
27:53Hello? Hello, is this Bill? Yes. Hi, Bill. This is Jonathan Goldstein speaking. Hi, buddy. What's going on? Well, I'm here with Elise. Hey, Dad. Hi. Hi, honey. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Everything is good this end. That's good. I'm glad that you approached Jonathan. Any communication that we can get, I think is really good. Yeah. I'm sorry it took such a long time. I just...
28:58But Elise isn't here to talk about the great times. She's here to talk about the bad times. In fact, she's written up some notes to make sure she doesn't leave any of her feelings or questions unsaid. The notes are in her hand, but she isn't looking at them. Instead, she speaks from the heart. Okay.
29:23I have thought about emailing you back. I've just been so angry that I didn't think it would be productive. and like I have just wanted to like yell at you or cry or cuss you out for leaving and not explaining anything but I don't feel that like intense anger anymore and I am sad that we don't have a relationship like we used to, but I feel like every time I let you back in and I forgive you for whatever has happened before, you end up just breaking my heart again. And I, I do find it very insulting that you gave another child my name, my first and last name.
30:23And I don't know. I don't know what relationship we're going to have in the future. I just, I had to sort of get some of this out for any of that to be possible.
30:38Okay.
30:41Billy is silent for a while. When he finally does respond, he skips right over the big question about his leaving without explanation and focuses on the second question instead, the question of Elisa's name. Well, I can tell you that it was her mother who loves the name Elise. I should have contested and said, no, you know, let's rethink this one, but I didn't, Elise, to be honest with you, and I should have done. The Filipino culture and the Filipino thinking is different. I'll give you another example. One of your favorite dogs was Charlie. Okay. I've never owned a German Shepherd over here, but we had a dog.
31:41But because of the stories that I've told, what did they call the dog? Charlie. By the look on her face, Elise doesn't seem reassured by the fact that, like her, Charlie, the beloved German shepherd from her childhood, had also been replaced. Although I haven't been to the Philippines, it feels as though Billy is throwing an entire country under the bus to save his own hide. In the silence, I try to bring things back to what I think is Billy's strongest suit, his seemingly renewed capacity for repentance. I want at least to hear what I heard in Billy during our first conversation, so I try to steer things in that direction.
32:28Bill, you know, you mentioned feeling regret. What would you do differently if you had a chance to do things over? I don't think that the final outcome would change much, to be honest with you. But I should have called for a family meeting, and I should have gone over it in detail, with times and dates and plans.
33:06A family meeting about leaving your family was not the do-over I was expecting. After having heard the level of Old Testament shame he'd expressed in our first phone call, I'm surprised that Billy's now talking in the language of meetings and launch dates. Elise stares down at the floor. She looks at me. Billy's not giving her what she needs. So she puts it to him as directly as she can. Like, you have to understand that you just disappeared and I had no context. Like, I want to know what you were thinking when you left and, like, why you left. So, like, what happened?
33:48Well, there are lots of things that I would like to explain to you regarding my leaving.
34:01Um... Is it... I'm here. I'm listening. If there's anything you want to say.
34:11Well, there were several, several things that happened, Elise. It's a long story that I would like to explain to you step by step. Got kind of a really busy schedule today.
34:38Is there any, like, brief overview? Well, yeah, honey, I can answer your questions. I have an explanation. you know, for what happened. And I would be more than happy to explain it to you in detail. But then, nothing. The conversation goes round and round. Billy reassures Elise that he has explanations. Explanations of every length and level of detail. It's just that he never actually shares any. But I'd be more than happy to do that. every question that you may have. Is there anything you've wanted to say to me? There won't be a question that you'll ask me that I won't answer. Like, right now you're just telling me that you're going to tell me.
35:32Like, do you have anything to ask?
35:37Billy likes to talk about talking about hard things, but not actually talking about them. Still, Elise keeps pushing. I understand that it's very painful for you, but I... There have been so many times when we've just glossed over insane things that have happened, crazy things. I understand that there's got to be explanations for things that got said and actions that got taken and things that got done. And then, when all of that is done, and Elise has asked her last question, and I have told her every single thing that I want to call her, and I appreciate it. Billy's not making any headway talking about the past, so he turns the conversation to the future.
36:32I'm really hoping that before I do actually leave this place, and I get to see you at least one more time. I don't want to die without seeing you again. I really don't.
36:50Yeah, I don't... I don't want that either. And with that, Elise's hands fall into her lap. As an interlocutor, there isn't much for me to do. Elise hears what Billy is saying and not saying, and she doesn't need any help to understand. So I do the only thing I can. I sit beside her, commiserating with raised eyebrows and puzzled looks, saying without words, I see the same things you do, and it's not you.
37:29For the rest of the call, Elise stays quiet and allows Billy to talk, though it feels as though he's mostly talking to himself. It is going to be okay. But don't look backwards anymore, honey. Don't go backwards. There's too much pain back there. It kills me daily. Don't go back there. That's just our response to the things that happened back then. But let's move forward. It's just so painful. It hurts. It hurts a lot. As Billy tries to push away the past while cowering from the future, the present takes hold, the one Billy can't deny.
38:36And if there are any other explanations that I should give to you, Elise, you know, I'll be more than happy to do that. So I will be more than happy to spend my evening starting to explain that to you. Billy promises that that evening he'll send Elise an email, an email that will explain everything. But it never arrives. not that night or the next or any night in the months that follow. I will email you later today, okay, Elise?
39:18Yeah. Okay. Elise, thank you. I really appreciate it. Okay, Bill. Well, have a good rest of the day. Yeah, thanks for talking, Dad. I appreciate it. Okay. Have a great day, honey. You too. Or a great evening. Thanks. Bye.
39:51Okay.
39:55How you doing?
40:00Once we're off the phone, Elise and I go over what just happened. She tells me she felt steamrolled, and I tell her that I felt it too. I wasn't really sure what I wanted to get out of it. I don't think that everyone gets sort of an equally agreeable, compromised ending. but for a long time I felt like the burden of us not having a relationship was on me because he would email and I would never respond and that was kind of the end of it and I feel like now that I have tried to contact him like the burden of us not having whatever relationship I think we should have is not as much on me I feel a lot less guilt now we'll never be as close as it sounds like he wanted us to be I don't think that's likely and like maybe it's okay that I don't push for that I think he creates his own universe like I lived I was a permanent resident of like Billy World for a number of years and I was glad to get off the ride like you don't get to live in the universe that you create and expect it not to affect other people
41:29And other people have been affected. In recent months, Elise has been corresponding with a British man named Martin. And Martin was able to help Elise answer the question of why her father left in a way that Billy himself couldn't. Martin believes he's Billy's son, born before Billy left England for Chattanooga. So unlike Elise, Martin grew up without a father, because like Elise, one day, without warning, his father left, moved to another country, and started another family. And from what Martin is saying, he's not the only one. There's another man living in England, he tells her, who also believes that Billy is his father.
42:13The two of them have been trying to reach Billy for years. In fact, it turns out that Martin and Elise have brushed against each other before, a long time ago. When Elise was growing up, she remembers the home phone ringing, usually around the holidays, and a young man with her father's accent on the line, asking to speak to Billy. Back then, Billy said Martin was a distant cousin. And all these years later, Martin still feels like he's being pushed away. He just wants Billy to acknowledge him. In learning about Martin and her other possible half-brother, how her story has repeated itself over and over, Elise has found the answer she needed, the answer Billy himself was never able to give her.
42:59It isn't about her or about Martin or anyone else. The reason Billy did what Billy did is because that's what Billy does.
43:18Martin and the other possible half-brother are planning to take a DNA test, and they'd like Elise to take one too. If their DNA matches hers, Martin says, it's all the proof they'll need. Billy will have to accept them as his own. When I talk to her on the phone about it later on, Elise says she isn't sure a DNA test will give Martin the thing he's looking for. But she does want to help. Knowing how much I wanted closure, it would definitely be good to be able to provide him some. So the next time she and Martin speak, she'll offer him this. Whatever relationship you have in your head that you want with him is probably not possible.
44:00And like, I can confirm that you're genetically related, but that doesn't guarantee that he will be a presence in your life in a way that you want. because he's not able to do that for me.
44:17In other words, Elise will tell Martin, I see the same things you do, and it's not you.
44:30A few months after our call with her father, Elise and I check back in. She tells me she still hasn't heard from Billy, But she suspects that, around the holidays, like always, she'll get that three-sentence email. And when she does, this time, she'll write him back. Happy whatever holiday it is, she'll write. Hope you're well. Love, Elise.
45:09guitar solo
45:36Now that the last month's rant is scheming with the damaged deposit. Take this moment to decide. If we meant it, if we tried. Or felt around for far too much. From things that accidentally tied. Elise? Hi. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Good. Do you have another room? It sounds very roomy. It's roomy. Which is a good quality for a room, normally. But not for recording. Let me, um, I'm going to go, I think, sitting on the floor in our closet might be. That's the spirit. It's going to take me a second to relocate, so just. Totally, take your time. This is a very big thing that I'm asking of you.
46:27Shoot, hold on. Don't put her in the crate, because that's where I'm going to be. Okay. Okay.
46:36Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. Thank you. Thank you for your indulgence. Who were you explaining to that you were headed for the closet? He actually was thinking about it because it's been like eight years since we first chatted. Yeah. When we first chatted, I had just started dating him and he's not my husband. Oh, cool. And sorry, one last unrelated question. The crating, was that a dog you were talking about? Yes. Thank God. Yes, we... How are you? I'm good. I have a number of updates about dad. Oh, yeah. Things have transpired. So there was eventually a younger sibling in the Philippines from a different woman.
47:21Wait, sorry, wait. We're talking about little Elise. No, there was another one after that. Oh, wow. Okay. And she was the last woman he took up with romantically was younger than me. Her name is Faith. How did you learn about this development? Have you and your father been in touch? Very little. Like birthdays and Christmas kind of thing? Yeah, maybe even less frequent than he had been doing beforehand. And then at some point between then and 2024, I can't remember exactly when his lack of legal immigration status in the Philippines did eventually catch up to him. And they put him in prison, like in detention, essentially, for a couple of years.
48:09He was in prison for a couple of years? Yes. In the Philippines? Yes. Wow. I... Does it even make sense? I mean, I don't know anything about Filipino law, that being there illegally would have been enough to put a person in prison for two years? Do you think maybe there's more to the story? I think it's very possible because I feel like I remember Faith saying to mom that he was getting charged with additional other things that she was so sure he didn't do. And me and my mom were like, it's much more likely that he did them. Wow. So how old a man was he at the time that they were, that he was sent to prison?
48:57Probably in his 70s at that point or like just close to. Then eventually they did deport him to Guam. He eventually ended up in Thailand. um and then in fall of 2024 the U.S. embassy started reaching out to me because he had been hospitalized in Thailand um this is all this is going to sound very terrible to say but you know when he was in prison and in the hospital like at least I knew where he was And then I think presumably his medical stuff continued to devolve. And then in early, essentially just over a year ago, he passed away in Thailand. Oh, I'm sorry. Very mixed feelings. I actually have his ashes and I don't know what to do with them right now.
49:55And what is the feeling of having them there? Do you feel like, I mean, do you have any feelings left? it's I was because I after you all reached out I went back and listened to the initial podcast reporting and I remember immediately after because we recorded that it sort of ended with the phone conversation that you facilitated between the two of us and then within a couple of hours of that, I was driving back from New York to DC. And I remember feeling so overwhelmed emotionally. I was feeling, I think, mostly anger at that point because I felt so stonewalled. And like, I couldn't really break through to him in any meaningful way.
50:45And I remember feeling like my heart was racing. I was so angry and sad, and I stopped at, like, a rest stop and called my mom and tried to, like, work through my feelings because I didn't want to drive in a rage for three more hours. I think I had grieved our relationship so much at that point that with his passing, it was more of a, okay, this is over. Do you think that conversation where we called him up, I mean, do you think ultimately it was helpful? I think it was helpful in showing me that our relationship, like, in many ways was effectively over and that that was unlikely to change. I'm sure there are small things that I could have done differently, but I don't think there was any, I don't think I could have behaved in such a way that I got my dad back in any meaningful way.
51:53Yeah. The story ends up, you know, with the story of Martin. What became of that? Did you do the, Yeah, I haven't. Yeah, I haven't done any DNA testing more from like a data privacy concern. Is that the only thing that keeps you from from doing it? I mean, I'm sure there are I'm sure there are other uninspected reasons. Yeah, I've clearly never made the effort to do it, which is, I guess, a signal in and of itself. Yeah. So, I mean, just generally like top line, things are good. You're doing OK. You got your husband, your dog. Thanks for great. I'm so glad. The dad updates are all wild, but I'm grateful for my personal life being relatively stable.
52:40Thanks, Elise. You may exit the closet now. Excellent. Thank you. It was good to catch up.
52:53Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together. We'll be back in two weeks time with something a little different. You might even say wildly different. You might say it's something of a wild card.
53:11Oh, also, if you haven't heard, we've started a free newsletter loaded with all kinds of fun word puzzles. Much to my stigrin, we are now including word puzzles. Movies that we like, photographs. It's a potpourri. Would you say it's a potpourri? I would say it's a potpourri. Oh, excuse me. It smells as good as a potpourri, and it looks great sitting on the basin of your toilet bowl. You know it's online, right? Is it? Everything's online these days, even toilet bowls. So sign up for our exciting newsletter. You need to give the link. Oh, yes. Of course, everything needs a link these days. The link is patreon.com slash heavyweight.
54:28deals and earn four times a point. Look for in-store tags to earn on eligible items from Lindor, Chips Ahoy, Gatorade, Host, Ziploc, and Zoa. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event-long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in-store or online for easy drive up and go, pickup or delivery. Restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions. At CVS, it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded.
55:02It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At CVS, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So visit us at cvs.com or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. Find home wherever you roam at Sonesta ES and Simply Suites. Stretch out and enjoy home-like amenities for however long you need. And when you're a Sonesta Travel Pass member, staying at Sonesta ES and Simply Suites means earning points toward free nights, upgrades, and more.
55:40Go to Sonesta.com to book your stay and unlock their best rates with Sonesta Travel Pass. Here today, roam tomorrow. Join now at Sonesta.com. Terms and conditions apply. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.
From the publisher
When Elyse was 21, her father, Billy, disappeared without explanation. When Elyse finally learned of his whereabouts, she was shocked by the new life he was living.
Seven years after the release of this episode, we check back in with Elyse, and she tells us all about what's happened with her dad in the time since.
You can sign up for our free newsletter at patreon.com/heavyweight
This episode was produced by Jonathan Goldstein, B.A. Parker, Kalila Holt, and Stevie Lane, with editing by Jorge Just and Alex Blumberg. Special thanks to Emily Condon, Kaitlin Roberts, Alex Goldman, Caitlin Kenney, and Jackie Cohen. The show was mixed by Bobby Lord. Music by Christine Fellows, John K Samson, Blue Dot Sessions, Michael Hearst, Shanghai Restoration Project, and Bobby Lord. Our theme song is by The Weakerthans courtesy of Epitaph Records. Mixing on this update by Sarah Bruguiere.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
