#62 Stefano

0:05Pushkin.

0:13Hi, Tony. Karen? Just in the grocery store. I'm sorry to be intruding like this, you know, just calling up. Oh, hi. Oh, hi. Sorry, my mom called on the other line. So then you just drop whoever you're talking to? That's the kind of daughter I am. Not very professional, but okay. Oh, is this a business call? Yes, it actually is. Okay. Well, because, you know, you're a dear friend of Jackie's, So I thought maybe, you know, I would turn to you with my concern. I've been trying to call Jackie, and she doesn't seem to be accepting my phone calls. Yeah, no. I could confirm that she's okay. Okay. Oh, that's good.

0:59Thank God. Yeah, I could confirm that. And I can confirm that she's annoyed by your persistence. That I could confirm. Okay. And it's, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Maybe she just feels that you're using her. Well, I am. Well, maybe she doesn't like that. Yeah, because she wants to be the user, right? That's an excellent point you've got there. Okay, Jackie, if you're out there listening, which, let's face it, you're probably not, if I am using you, it's on behalf of America and Canada. Of course.

1:49From Pushkin Industries, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, Stefano.

2:03Right after the break.

2:11This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey, everyone. When Heavyweight returned last year, we were so encouraged by the heartfelt messages from you, our dear listeners. I can safely say that without you, Heavyweight wouldn't exist today. So, thank you. And if you want to take your valuable support to an even higher, invaluable level, consider signing up for Pushkin Plus. It makes us look good to our bosses and you'll get to listen to Heavyweight ad-free because you'll be the sponsor. Plus, and this is what really puts the plus in Pushkin Plus, you'll also get bonus material. If you want to get 25 % off an annual Pushkin Plus subscription, head to pushkin.fm slash plus and use the code HEAVY25.

3:00Thanks for your support. It's impossible to talk to Debbie without hearing stories about her mom, Anita. Anita was Italian, and in every story, it's her otimismo feroce, or fierce optimism, that takes center stage. Truly, for her, the glass was beyond half full. It was always full. Even if there was a drop of water in there, Jonathan, it was just always full. As an example, Debbie tells the story of how Anita comforted some cousins who were concerned their child was crying too much. And my mom said, no, you don't have to worry. She's like me. I was like that for years. I was always crying very easily.

3:44My mom was around 78 years old at the time. And they said, did you grow out of it? And my mom goes, yeah. And they said, when? And she said, about two years ago. So, you know, they had something to hope for. Anita died in 2020, and her death was hard on Debbie. She misses her mom a lot and thinks about her a lot. And perhaps because of this, she finds herself returning to the one Anita story that has yet to find its happy ending. And that is the story of the airplane and the baby.

4:21Anita grew up in a part of Italy called Istria. And after World War II, the region was ceded to Yugoslavia. Suddenly, her family was under oppressive socialist rule. So Anita and her brother hatched an escape plan. They double-layered their clothing, borrowed a motorboat, and sailed into the Adriatic Sea. Anita could easily have drowned. But my mom said, you know, you're young, and you don't think about that kind of stuff. You just think about freedom. Anita and her brother made it to Italy, where the police took them to a refugee camp. In the coming years, Anita would live in several such camps.

4:57When I would talk to her other friends about it, her friends would say, oh, it was hard. You know, it was, the food wasn't good most of the time and we didn't have money. But you would never have known that talking to her. She was just eternally optimistic. She said, it was wonderful. They opened the doors and I saw so many people that I knew there. We'd play cards and we'd drink and, you know, the girls would do each other's hair and just had fun. In 1959, Anita got her chance to leave the camps, a visa to the United States. And so, all alone, Anita set out to America. So she was getting ready to get on the flight from Rome to New York.

5:41And there was an adoption agency that were taking children from orphanages from Italy to the United States. And they asked my mom if she would babysit this little boy. this little two-year-old boy. And she said, of course. Did she learn his name? Stefano.

6:05It's Anita, and you have a... I got a picture of a little baby, Stefano. This is Anita in a video Debbie filmed a year before her mom's death. In the video, Anita is clutching a photograph taken during the flight. He's so cute. Look at how beautiful he is, Stefano. The photograph is oddly composed, almost like it was taken by accident when the camera was set down. Anita and Stefano's faces are both partially cut off. But you can tell that Anita is smiling big, with the two-year-old Stefano peaceful in her arms. How old were you there? 24. Look at how beautiful. 60 years ago. 1959. It was a long flight to New York, and they had to stop three times to refuel.

6:50So for 18 hours, Anita held Stefano close. I think she just fell in love with him. She just fell in love with that little baby. She said he was the best baby you could ever see. How good a baby he was. He was the best baby. I was very happy. I was happy. A little baby was happy. It was Anita's first time on an airplane and Stefano's too. They were both leaving behind everyone they knew and setting out alone for a new life in America. Clutching this baby over the ocean, the two of them smiling at each other, Anita and Stefano bonded. They were both off to what she hoped was a better life.

7:34They get to New York. She was holding the baby. And the agency came up to her and then just took him right out of her arms. She said they didn't say anything to her. They just take him away from me. And he started crying because he didn't know nobody. There was no chance to even say goodbye. And I was crying with him. I would cry now, too. Yeah, of course. It's sad. He was like my baby. She would cry. She would cry when she'd talk about it. Even after raising two kids of her own, Anita never stopped talking about the child who was hers for a day. All through her life, even into her last years, everyone heard about Stefano.

8:18Anita continued to hope, always needed to believe. that Stefano's life was a good one. She would say, I wonder where he is. Was he in a good home? What was his life like? I would like to know him and see how he's doing. I'm sorry, baby, you are far away. I don't know, where are you? I was thinking all this year about him, all the time. Yeah. And I love you, even if I don't see you too long. That's a nice story. I don't know if you understand it. I think so. Back when Anita was still alive, there were several attempts at finding Stefano. Anita sought out help from various friends and family, but no one was able to get anywhere.

8:59They even looked into a TV show that reunited adoptees with their birth parents, but Anita wasn't Stefano's birth parent. But then one day, Debbie brought up the subject of Stefano with her close friend, Lindsay. Lindsay starts plugging stuff into the computer and she said, Oh, I found him. Hang on, but you didn't, did you even have his last name? No. And who's this Lindsay? Does she work for the State Department or something? You would think. As someone who makes his living tracking people down like a nice version of Dog the Bounty Hunter, a Dog the Bounty Hunter who, rather than dragging people off to jail, drags them off to heel, I'm professionally piqued by this Lindsay.

9:45I have a skill for finding digital footprints of people. This is Lindsay. I'm the person that people go to if they want to know something. The only information she knew about Stefano was his age and the date of the flight. But with that, she found Stefano's immigration record, which had the name of the man on it who was set to adopt him. From there, Lindsay found the adoptive father's obituary. Under the list of surviving children, there was the name Stephen. And, you know, we put that together. As Stefano. As Stefano. In America, Stefano became Stephen.

10:27Although Lindsay now had Stefano's full name, she had no way of getting in touch with him. She combed social media, but he was nowhere to be found. She did find his two brothers, though. So she messaged one. He said that it was a very nice story, but he doesn't speak to Stephen anymore. Yeah. And when Lindsay tried the other brother. It was basically the same thing, that they don't speak either. And then Lindsay dug a little deeper, and it looked like he might have a criminal record. Debbie and Lindsay couldn't see what Stephen's criminal record was. It just came up as a flag on one of those people-finding websites.

11:08But the reality of what they were doing suddenly sank in. They were looking for a potentially dangerous stranger to introduce to the elderly Anita. And it gave them pause. That paired with, and I'm not speaking to his brothers, we just, we weren't there if maybe this was our safest way to go about this. And we wanted to take some time to kind of figure out a game plan. But time passed and no game plan emerged. And a year later, Anita died, never having gotten to reunite with Stefano.

11:45After the loss of a parent, there's often an attempt to honor a final wish, donating to a beloved cause or scattering ashes in a favored place. But Debbie feels a need to fulfill a different kind of wish. On her mother's behalf, she wants to know that Stefano is okay. Anita's death was very, very, very difficult. And I think it's healing for Debbie if we find him. And I think that she needs this more than she thinks she does. Lindsay says Debbie never got the chance to fully grieve Anita. After she died, COVID hit. Then her father developed dementia, and Debbie became his full-time caretaker. Then her father died.

12:27Just always on to this next draining thing, you know. And since it is honoring this wish of her mom, it's helping her feel. And I can just see that when we talk about the story. She's so hopeful and she's so determined. And this is something that I haven't seen with Debbie in a very long time. And for Debbie, she hopes this story might mean something to Stefano, too. Maybe he needs to know that this woman thought of him for most of his life. Loving him from a distance, wondering about him, praying for him. I mean, what a thing to know.

13:15After the break. Let's find him. Let's find that guy. That little Stefano.

13:25Thank you.

13:55I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff, here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

14:13So. So. Here we are. Here we are. My producer, Kalilah Holt, and I gather in the studio. Our mission is twofold. We want to find a way to contact Stephen, but before we do, we want to figure out what Stephen's mysterious criminal record actually is. Kalila starts tip-tapping away on her computer while I settle in and offer the kind of input that only an investigative journalist with a decades-long track record can. I've gone through different phases in my life where a V-neck was more appealing than a crew neck. It's always darkest before the dawn. Is that true? I was like to Augie, I was like, smell how good that is.

14:52And he was like, that smells disgusting. I was like, I could think of other times when it's darker. It's probably darker at night. My gal don't do much talking dances, even when she's walking one and two. Oh, look at that little squirrel. Oh, here's criminal traffic. And then, finally, we find the record we've been looking for. DUI. Oh, okay. In 1989. That was a long time ago. So there's really no other criminal past except to... That's all I'm seeing. Boy, that's sad that that was enough to kind of make them drop the whole thing. Yeah. Please leave your message for five... Kalila digs up some possible phone numbers for Stephen online.

15:35And in the weeks to come, I leave numerous voicemails. Hi there. I'm looking for a Stephen. I call so many numbers, I hear automated messages entirely new to me. The number is in service. Is in service? Try your call again. None of these phone numbers lead me to Steven. They just lead me to different robotic voices. You're conking up. All right, that's it? Yeah.

16:04With the telephone having crapped on our heads, we decide that what we need is an even older form of communication, the U.S. Postal Service. Khalilah uncovers three possible mailing addresses for Stephen, so we write three letters and drop them in the mailbox, letting them fly off into the world like three hopeful birds. And then time, as is its want, passes.

16:34Two years go by. Two years. It's unlikely the average podcast listener's brain, raised on podcasts about celebs, elk steak, and the science of why people go to the bathroom, can easily conceptualize the passage of so much time. If this was a video podcast, I'd stare into the camera with my patented deadpan affect as my beard and fingernails grew in time-lapse. But since it isn't a video podcast, I present to you an audiophonic aid.

17:18That was only ten seconds. Now imagine two years. Two years of refreshing my inbox and calling my answering service to no avail. And then, Debbie and I check back in. Where are you right now? It appears that you have a ladder behind you. Yes, I'm at home. And where does this ladder lead to? Oh, nowhere. A ladder to nowhere. We're going nowhere with this ladder. I hope we're going somewhere with this story. I hope we're not on a ladder to nowhere. It seems Debbie hasn't given up on Stefano. She tells me Lindsay found some of the same phone numbers we did. So Debbie, too, tried calling and leaving messages.

18:00No one ever called back, though. Still, Debbie wants to keep trying. And so more letters are sent, more voicemails left, and two more months go by. I've completely given up hope. And then, one afternoon, I finally hear from Stephen. You did? I did. You did? I did. Wow. Yeah. I'm shocked. I wasn't holding out a lot of hope. Me either. I tell Debbie about the phone call, how Stephen told me he dismissed my letters as a scam. I asked if he'd be open to a conversation with Debbie, but he said he doesn't have transportation. And when I said we could do a video call, he said he hasn't a cell phone nor a computer, and he, quote, doesn't follow the internet.

18:49But eventually, he said he'd be okay with a telephone call. I would love that. I think it's a gift that he doesn't realize, you know? So he is available 1 o 'clock Green Mountain Time, so that would be like, oh, sorry, Mountain Time, Mountain Time, not Green Mountain Time. After the break, Stefano. At long last. Is Green Mountain time a thing? Sounds like a coffee thing. That would be a three o 'clock Nescafe. So one o 'clock Green Mountain.

19:32Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. The next day at 1 p.m. Green Mountain Time, Debbie and I convene.

20:09Okay, I'll give him a call. I'll phone him and I'll introduce you guys. Okay. Okay.

20:24Hello? Hello, Stephen. Yes. Hi, it's Jonathan phoning. I'm here with Debbie. Oh, you are? Hi, Stephen. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? I'm good. I'm really good. And I'm really excited to hear your voice and to know that you're here right now.

20:55So, Stephen, my mom, her name was Anita. Debbie lays it all out for Stephen. The plane ride, the love Anita felt for him, and how that love endured for Anita's entire life. You were always on her mind for many, many years and told many people about you. Well, God bless your mom. I wish she would have adopted me. I think she would have liked that too.

21:27Anita always wanted to know whether after being taken from her arms, Stefano's life had been a good one. So we start at the beginning with Stephen's adoption. My foster parents told me roughly at the age of eight. You called them your foster parents? Did they adopt you? Yes. Were they good people? I mean, there was three squares a day. I mean, there was no abuse or anything like that. I don't mind. And Lickens is what my dad called it. Did you say Lickens? Yeah. About, it wasn't abuse. It was just for discipline purposes. Was that rough? Well, for a little kid it is. But did you feel loved? Yes.

22:34I did. Oh, I remember from childhood, other than friends, and they turned out to be drug addicts, I turned out nominal. What do you mean when you say nominal? Well, I have a serious alcohol problem. Okay. I know I sound like I've been drinking, but I haven't, I don't have anything here. I was pretty much known as a boozer. Back in the day, Stephen says, the drinking got bad, which led to the DUI. You don't think when you drink, you get behind the wheel of a vehicle drunk is preposterous. Did your father, did your adoptive father do something similar? He drank, but not in excess. I never saw him in a drunken stupor.

23:46Well, nobody's ever seen me. I won't let them. Yeah. So you drink alone? Yes. that song by that one guy, George Thurgood, I Drink Alone, reminds me of me. As the conversation goes on, Debbie grows increasingly quiet, so I do my best to draw Stephen out. Did you get married? No, I've never been married. I've had relationships, but they come and go. Would you say that you've been in love? I've been infatuated, put it back. And I lived with a lady for many years, but that was back in the 80s. What can you say about her? Joanne? Hmm. She died of lung cancer. Oh. And I lived with her for like nine years.

25:00Oh, boy. Did she pass away while you were living together? Yeah. That must have been hard. Yeah, it was, but I moved on.