Jonathan Vs. Kalila on Smash Boom Best

0:11Welcome to the studio, Kalila Holt, producer. Thank you for having me. You know, I'm not saying that you should, but it would sometimes be nice to be welcomed into the studio myself. Well, you always jump right in and start welcoming me. You don't really give me the opportunity. Welcome to the studio, Jonathan. Oh, gee, I was taken unawares by that. We're here in the studio because we have something a little different. A special treat. Yeah, it's something that was new for both of us, Kalila and I. We were guests on a children's debate podcast. The show's called Smash Boom Best, and it's a favorite of your son, Augie's, if I'm not mistaken.

0:55Yes, very much so, which is how it kind of got onto my radar. I started enjoying listening to it with him. And the host, Molly Bloom, is kind of a celeb in our household. So I was a little starstruck. You know, I'm always wary of children's programming because I hate the kind of like over the top smiley baby voice like. Too syrupy. Yeah. But I started listening to the show in advance of doing this and I feel like I really enjoyed the show. They're talking to kids at like a level that respects their intelligence, I would say. Yeah. And since we respect you, our listeners, intelligences, it's why we chose to share this episode with you all.

1:40We'll be debating phone calls versus texting. I don't want to spoil anything. We went pretty toe-to-toe. It got pretty heated during certain moments. But, you know, we're here to talk about it. We're still speaking to one another. So the point is it's always better to use your words rather than a knuckle sandwich to the throat of your adversary. That's so true. Thank you for not giving me a knuckle sandwich to the throat. I deliver my knuckle sandwiches with words. Sans beurre. We had a lot of fun doing it, and we hope you'll enjoy listening to it. And that's all coming up after these fun words from our sponsors.

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4:45Brains On Universe From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best. The show for people with big opinions. Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best. The show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today, we've got two ways of reaching out. One starts with a ring, the other a ding. It's calling versus texting. Whether you like to type or talk, we're sure you'll have a lot to say about this one. Defending the tradition of talking on the phone, it's the host of the Heavyweight Podcast, Jonathan Goldstein. Howdy do. And here to hit send for the art of the text, it's Kalilah Holt, producer of the Heavyweight Podcast.

5:34Hello, or should I say hand wave emoji? And here to judge this clash of the communication styles is none other than Ella from Oregon City. Ella is on the swim team, plays flute and saxophone, loves to make art, and has lots of bracelets on both of her arms. Welcome, Ella. Hi. Okay, Ella, since this is a podcast, we cannot see your amazing bracelets. So can you give us a sense of the scope of your bracelets? I have probably like 25 on right now. Wow. Have you made all of them? I've probably made half of them. Incredible. What are we talking about? Like string, beads, all of the above? All of the above.

6:14Wow. Do you have a favorite one? I recently made one with soda tabs, and it's really cool, and it's stretchy. That's very impressive. Just soda tabs? Yes. Well, and string. What is the oldest bracelet that you have on? I have one that I got in sixth grade, and it says Kindness Ambassador on it, and I have worn it for three years. That's amazing. So the ones on your arms right now, are they like an everyday you wear each one every day or do you change it up? Sometimes I change it up, but most of them I keep it on like all the time. Very cool. Okay, so you also make other kinds of art besides bracelets.

6:49What other kind of media do you use to make art? I love like drawing and painting and stuff, but I also like music. Oh, yes, you play saxophone and flute. so I'm wondering when you're playing flute versus when you're playing saxophone is there like a vibe shift that you feel or is it kind of the same it's definitely different vibes because I play more like jazz music on the saxophone and then I do more like popular songs or like concert music on the flute so when you're playing the saxophone if you said hello and you're like saxophone playing voice like what would that sound like oh I don't know I'd probably be like hello Nice.

7:32And how about your flute playing voice? What would that hello sound like? Hello. Excellent. Excellent. Well, will Ella side with texting or phone calls? Let's see. First, the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds, the declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge, Ella, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won.

8:12Okay, Kalila, Ella, and Jonathan, are you ready? Oh, I'm ready. I hope so. I'm ready too. Then it's time for the... Declaration of Greatness. In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin, and Jonathan, you're up first. Tell us why we should answer the call of talking on the phone. What's the sound of being loved? A heartbeat? No. That's just body plumbing. Is it someone saying, I love you? I'd argue actions speak louder than words, which is why to me, the sound of being loved is...

9:03a phone call. It says, hey, I like hearing your voice. I like the way you laugh, your awkward pauses. It says I want to spend my precious minutes in real time with you, even if I can't be there in real life. A text just says, shoot, I just remembered you asked me a question yesterday, and I'm going to write you back while I finish up on the toilet.

9:32Phone calls are efficient. Oh, sure, texters will say a text is quick, to which I say, what are you rushing for? More scrolling to get to? But also, texts can be slow. How many times have you sent a question, then had to wait for a reply? Like, say you're planning a picnic. Hey, Chad, where should we meet? Come on, right back. You could be waiting minutes or hours. You have no idea. Finally, it's been three hours. Okay, Chad says meet at Minnehaha Falls. Sure, but what time? Come on, just answer me. Meanwhile, the whole thing could have been settled in 15 seconds with a call. Hello? Hey, Chad, where should we picnic?

10:28How about Minnehaha Falls? When? Six. Bring cheese and crackers? Nah, fruit and pizza. Okay, see ya. Later. That's efficient. Phone calls avoid confusion. You can hear someone's tone, whether it's playful, angry, grumpy, or snarky. Texts are so easy to get wrong. Is Chad being sarcastic or a jerk? Oh, he sent an emoji to clarify. Cool guy with shades? What does that even mean? Plus, what emoticon can replace the sound of human laughter or that special silence that you know is a smile on the other end of the line? You can feel real feelings through a call. I've seen someone stand right next to me and text someone R-F-O-L.

11:20And let me tell you, they were not rolling on the floor laughing. I'm not going to say texting is dishonest, but it does make it easy to lie. There's a famous story about the first phone call. In 1876, Alexander Graham Bell was inventing the phone. So far, he'd only managed to send snippets of speech. But then he spilled some acid on his hand in the lab. Ah! Mr. Watson, come here, I want you. He used the phone without realizing it to call his assistant. And it worked. Mr. Bell, I heard every word you said distinctly Is there even a story of the first text message? That's rhetorical I don't care because it's definitely not as good Phone calls are memorable Like a cousin telling you about a new baby joining the family Or a friend comforting you after a breakup And no wonder Humans have been talking and listening to each other's voices for over 100 ,000 years.

12:30Way longer than writing. We evolved to talk and listen. I'd argue it's one of the greatest pleasures of being a human. So the call is coming. The call to enjoy a conversation. Not just get to it next time you're on the toilet. The call to revel in human voices. The call to say, I love you. Not with words, but with actions. The call. To make a call. Are you going to answer it?

13:06Well said. Well, howdy do. That was a heartwarming declaration of greatness there. Ella, what stood out to you about Jonathan's arguments? That actions do speak louder than words. Very nice. Okay, Kalila, you have 30 seconds to send Jonathan straight to voicemail, and your 30 seconds starts right now. Okay, man, I don't know if 30 seconds is going to be enough. First of all, I think that being loved is about, you know, showing the other person that you understand what they want. And sometimes that's not always a phone call. So a lot of people don't like being called. The time thing, I just think that it's not true that calls are faster.

13:49So many times I've been in a situation where I'm calling, leaving a message. They don't answer. They call me back. I'm in the middle of something. I can't answer. They leave a message. And you know what we always do? We always switch to texting. And time. I found that surprisingly hurtful. I thought this was just going to be about the topics, but that feels somehow ad hominem. I don't know why. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. You're welcome. How did you say it? with your mouth. Oh my goodness. All right. We have a lot more to hear coming up. We're going to hear from Kalila and team texting. But first, a quick break.

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17:12Best Smash Smash Best Okay, we were all ears for phone calls. Kalila, take it away for texting. Imagine you call your childhood friend on a random Tuesday. Hello? Hey, pal. I'm in the middle of like ten things right now, and I'm holding a jumbo tray of sandwich fixins. Is everything okay? Remember that time when we built a sandcastle? What? No, the sprouts are slipping. Are you okay? Remember when we went to Claire's and we got our ears pierced? My ears closed up years ago. Did you need something? Remember how we used to laugh? I'm sorry, what is the purpose of this call? I was just thinking about you.

17:55I have to go. Wow, I don't know if she'll ever talk to me again. But that's the risk I took. calling someone out of the blue, violating the peace of her day. Let's try again with a text. Hey, pal, thinking of you. She wrote back. Aw. It says, miss you too. Now we're both smiling and no days were ruined. I'm a reporter. Making phone calls is part of my job. Cold calls, as in a call where the person isn't expecting you, are not fun. Said person answers the phone already feeling annoyed, and you have to explain who you are and why you're calling as quickly as possible before they hang up. A few times have even been yelled at on the phone.

18:45It's my least favorite part of the job, and I usually cry. But the telephone is an incredible invention. Sure, so is the horse-drawn carriage, but we have cars now. we change with the times. Ugh, not me. I still love my horse and carriage. And my phone calls. Well, great for you, Mr. Retro Chic, but for the rest of us, a phone call causes panic. Maybe 20 years ago, a ringing phone meant something like, Marjorie down the street is inviting you over for homemade casserole. How charming. These days, though, a call is either spam, your college that cost you$200 ,000 asking if you'd like to give them more money, or someone delivering bad news.

19:33Sometimes it's also a butt dial. Those are fun, right? Are they? Five minutes of rustling? Okay, plus, have you ever tried to get off the phone with someone, and they keep dragging it out? It's a whole song and dance of going, okay, in a way that's supposed to sound final, while the other person completely ignores the hint and launches into a detailed anecdote about new cereals on offer at their grocery store. Texts, on the other hand, end whenever you want them to. You just stop responding. Beautiful. And you don't have to play phone tag trying to get an answer. Just send your question and the other person responds when they can.

20:10Ideal. There's also the matter of being in public. Someone calls to chat and any random stranger can listen in on my conversation. I would like to be able to tell my mom about how I cried over accidentally ordering the wrong breakfast burrito without broadcasting it to the world. It is simply not the world's business. And speaking of being in public, we've all been trapped near someone on a loud phone call. It's a nightmare. Texting is silent. It is the considerate choice. And here's something phone calls can never give you. A written record. I can search my texts, find that address someone sent me three months ago, and double-check what time we said we'd meet.

20:51A phone call just evaporates into thin air. And finally, texting isn't just words. It's photos, links, voice memos, emojis, a whole multimedia experience. Texting is even changing language itself. Now we're all using new abbreviations and fun emojis to express ourselves. It's like each one of us is a modern-day Shakespeare, inventing new ways to say things. So, in conclusion, texting is convenient, considerate, less panicky, and frankly, more creative. Oh, it's my childhood friend again. She says thanks. That text brightened by day. And she sent me a picture of some sandwiches she made. Let me text back a drool emoji and a heart one too.

21:41Very nicely done. I'm sending you gifts of lots of people giving high fives. Way to go. Ella, what stood out to you about Khalilah's declaration of greatness? Um, that, like, she was saying how calls have to be at a good time and how, like, your texts are private and, like, kept, you can keep them to yourself. Okay, Jonathan, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to leave Kalila on read and your time starts now. Okay. You mentioned Shakespeare. I'm trying to remember which play or sonnet the smiley face was in. And you say the thing about how phone calls evaporate into air. But frankly, like, I mean, all the best things in life do, you know, like laughter and tears and our own human experiences themselves.

22:32So I don't think, you know, that discounts them. I think a lot of what you're saying, I feel very parental. It speaks to our isolation. I mean, yeah, sure. if you want to talk about the nature of mortality and death, but I just like to sort of be able to look back at a nice text later, you know? I mean, I don't know. We're just jumping too far ahead. I mean, like, why do anything, you know? Like, why sail a paper boat on a pond? Why would you do that? See, that's the problem right there. You're speaking two different languages. I come from a generation where, you know, you beat a hoop down the street with a stick, you know, And your generation has got AI solving all of that.

23:22I don't know about AI, but I don't think it's a bad thing that we've, you know, evolved beyond hoops. We have better things to play with now than hoops on streets. Or kites. Okay. Ella, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team argue more passionately? Did another team have better logic? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.

23:58Have you made your decision? Yes. Excellent. Khalilah and Jonathan, how are you two feeling so far? Feeling confident, I guess. It's so weird. I'm usually so conflict avoidant that it's a weird mode for me to be in. And I feel like ready to throw in the towel. I'm like, maybe she's right. Maybe phones are for phonies. What do I know? All right. Well, it's time for a quick break. Check your messages and charge your phone. And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best. You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation. Meow. That's cat for hello. I'm Taylor Lincoln, debate maven and cat person.

24:41Woof, woof. That's dog for feed me. And I'm Todd Douglas, the dog dude and debate powerhouse. And we're here at our local animal shelter to cuddle some canines and kitty cuties. And catch some logical fallacies with our claws and paws. Logical fallacies are uncool debate techniques that help you lose your debates. And I just snagged a nasty one. Want to hear it? Oh, that's dog for of course. Let's listen in and see what the cat dragged in.

25:13Oh, look at these little kittens in need of a home. What do you think, Amos? Should I adopt one? Meh. Aren't they adorable? Listen to their little meows. I don't really like cats. Wait, what? Why? And why didn't you put that on your dating profile? I don't know. I just think that they're mean. How so? Because they can scratch and bite? Dogs can also scratch and bite. Oh, this little furball seems to love the way I'm petting him. They're mean because... they're just not nice to people. Cats are mean because they're not nice to people. And they're not nice to people because they're mean? Our friend just said the same thing twice.

26:01That argument didn't take us anywhere. And that's because it was a circular argument fallacy. That's when a debater ends their point with the argument they started with. It's an argument that goes around in circles. Like a dog chasing its tail. Our friend Amos needs to come up with some fresh ideas about why cats are mean. Which is a losing argument anyway? I don't know, Taylor. I've had a few gnarly run-ins with my neighbor's cat, Sausalito. Watch it, Todd. My claws are coming out. To quote the great Scooby-Doo, Ruh-roh. Yes.

26:37We'll see you next time on State of Debate.

26:45Smash. Boom. Best. You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom. And I'm your judge, Ella. And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners like this one. Hi, my name is Wyatt. I'm from Hanford, California. My debate suggestion is Monopoly versus Jenga. A game night debate. Wyatt's not playing with this one. We'll hear who Wyatt thinks should win at the end of the show. And now, back to this debate. Calling versus texting. And now it's time for round two. The micro round. It's time for a fact off. Khalilah and Jonathan will each get three chances to make a micro argument backed by a cool fact or idea.

27:29Jonathan went for his last round. So Kalila, please start us off. Texting saved a life. In 2008, British surgeon David Knott was volunteering in the Congo and performed a life-saving operation, receiving step-by-step surgical instructions via text message. The operation was a success. So wait, I just have a follow-up question about that little fun factoid. So he put down the scalpel in order to, like, be texting away? I don't have information about the logistics of if maybe someone was reading them out loud. Okay. All right. I do tend to think that if it was just on a phone, you can get rid of the middleman and you wouldn't have to have someone reading the text to them out loud.