#259: Sarah Gibson Tuttle, Founder and CEO of Olive & June – Work on yourself

26:43And then continuing to have long and short form content and really supporting people, it would have been a flash in the pan. And that's why we've been able to scale to close to 100 last year, be the only, you know, beauty company that got fully acquired last year, which was really a proud moment for us because we not only were prepared, but then we had incredible execution and support for our community. And we've always put the community first. We've never made it about us. It's always about their experience, their journey. You know, and during COVID, and I think you alluded to this, you went live on Instagram 57 days in a row to teach people at home.

27:22I mean, that's impressive. And what did that season teach you about staying connected to your customers? I have always, because of my background, been a customer service person. So it was just, it reiterated to me what people need in life, which is a pep talk. They need to feel like they can do anything. And we are here as a brand with incredible products, but also we are here with that pep talk. We are here to say, you can do this. It's not that hard. You just need to know a few things and you need the right products. And then you're going to get this$40,$80, whatever it is, manicure at home.

28:00And you're going to have done it yourself for a dollar. Right? So it's just that people need the support and the pep talk in order to get the confidence to try something. And so it really reiterated that for me. It solidified it for me. It didn't teach me anything new, but it was, it was a nice reinforcement for what my vision was for the business and how to grow it. And now you have this massive following on social media, but, you know, sales obviously drive your business. How do you think about converting all the followers and this, you know, the community you have on social media into customers?

28:41I actually don't think about social as an ROI, as ROI. I don't think about it as how do we convert? I think about it as how do you inspire? How do you educate? How do you make people happy? Because I believe I'm like a field of dreams person. For those who have seen that movie, if you build it, they will come. It's like my favorite thing to think about. But I believe that the more we inspire, delight, educate, you know, make you happy, you will try our products. So to me, social is not a conversion metric or funnel. It is about just being a joy and a light in people's lives so that when they're next at Target, Walmart, Walgreens, et cetera, that they say, oh, that brand is that brand so cute.

29:32Or I saw that nail art or, oh, they made me laugh or, oh, I saw someone talking about how great those press-ons are. And so they grab it and they try it. I love it. You know, how do you, how's, how's AI impacting your business, Sarah? What's funny is that we kind of love AI at Olive and June. We use it really to help structure our thinking, whereas sometimes you want to do a plan for a strategy and you can just put what your thought is in AI and they can actually just give you the template for what you have to fill out, which is so helpful because sometimes you're just stuck on how to even structure something.

30:11So it's not affecting, I would say, our core business. I don't see, I mean, they're not making nail polish instead of us, but I do find it to be a helpful tool in some of the operations or structural pieces of our business. Sometimes you're stuck on a creative idea and you just ask like, what, what brand should we collaborate with? Doesn't mean we're going to reach out to those brands, but it gives you something fresh to think about because my team is incredibly talented, but we get tired. And so it's a nice to have, not a have to have for us, but I truly understand what it's doing to the creative field.

30:44And I'm, I'm deeply sympathetic to that. So I think it's a balance for everyone and how they bring it into their business. I've heard you say that perfection is boring. How do you create a culture where people feel safe to experiment and to fail? It's a bit of trial and error, right? Where I have to then own my mistakes pretty publicly, or I have to own my missteps, but also create a bit of a casual environment so that I mean, on a call today, I can't remember what I said, but I said something and I said, sorry, if that came off wrong. And my head of creative started laughing and said, yeah, it came off so wrong.

31:27I'm so mad at you. And the whole team laughed. And the idea is that you're just yourself. You're earnest. You own what you do, but also that we're in an environment where people are really loving and kind to one another. And so you just model it really. But it is a bit of trial and error because I think perfection is boring. And I think there's a lot of beauty in the imperfection, but also I have a team of rock stars. So they all want to be perfect. They all want everything to go right the first time. So you have to just continue to have those conversations. And also when things don't work, you learn so much.

32:07and I think that people forget that. It's not just when things work that you learn. It's also when things don't work. And so then I will constantly reinforce, this is great. We learned our consumer doesn't like that color. Okay, we're never making a color like that again or we're not making it impress-ons or whatever. And so, but again, you don't know until you have the data one way or the other that things are working or not working. And so I think it's a constant reinforcement. You know, one of the things I've noticed just in this conversation, Sarah, is you seem to have a very high self-awareness.

32:44And, you know, do you have a process that you use to really, you know, assess where you are at now in your career and in your business and then what you need to do to sharpen your own acts? I think I was raised with a healthy amount of feedback. So, and I have an older brother who loves to tell me, he's talk about a no person. So I get a lot of feedback. And then again, like, like we said, I surround myself with people that are not yes people. But I enjoy growing. So I would say that I read a ton, I research a ton, but I also go to regular therapy. I really try to be aware of what I've done. And also I welcome, I tell my friends, like you can tell me anything.

33:33If I've done something that has hit you wrong, tell me. I think that the only way that you become the best version of yourself is if you, it's not just one thing or one process. It's if everyone in your life plus is giving you the feedback, plus you're open to it and you're showing that you're open to it. I also think that one thing that sometimes people don't realize is when someone's giving you feedback or they're frustrated with you, personal, professional, anything, if you show that you will accept it, they feel more comfortable in the future to give you more. And ultimately, that's sometimes the biggest hurdle or roadblock for you if you're defensive or you don't, don't hear them because then they don't want to do it ever again.

34:24Well, I don't want to, I don't want to work in an organization where people feel like they can't tell me when, when I've done something right or something wrong. And I don't want to be in relationships, friendships, romantic, otherwise, even with my daughter where she can't tell me how she feels. So I try to be as open as I can. And then I find sometimes a little too much, right? Like it's like, okay, I get the feedback. All right. I'm just kidding. But it's, but I think it's really healthy. And so it's not necessarily a process, more so a lifestyle that I try to embody. Yeah. And one of the things that you mentioned, you said you do therapy and, you know, it takes a lot of courage, A, to do therapy.

35:03And then B, you know, do I think, admit that you do therapy? Where does that come from? I think it's great to do therapy. I think, you know, it's funny. I had someone in my life once say that everyone who goes to therapy thinks they're better than everyone else. And I was like, no, they don't. They in fact think they need more work than everyone else, which is why they're in therapy. As idyllic as my childhood was in my own brain, when I look back, I have a pretty complicated relationship with my father. I had some insecurities that I think I alluded to earlier. I think I inherently knew that I had things to work on and things I wanted to work through.

35:43I've also been married twice and so, and divorced twice. And so there's been a lot of life lessons for me along the way. And I've wanted to make sure that I am always the best version of myself so that I can live the best life. Right. I mean, I'm, I want, I only get one shot. I want to, I want to live it to the best of my ability, but also, um, my daughter is 10. How do I model for her what real growth and evolution looks like? You don't have to be stuck in time and be this one person. It's important for her to know that growing and evolving is frankly a gift that we get in life. We get that gift to grow and evolve.

36:25You're not born as one person and you can never change. And so use that gift. Look at it as a gift. Look at it as great fortune to use your words. I love that. You know, there's been so much there and I want to have some fun with you with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. The three words that best describe you? Loyal, loving, enthusiastic. If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be? I really, really want to come back as my great grandmother, Olive, because I named Olive and June after them because I was obsessed.

37:01I know this is lightning round, but I'm just going to say one more thing. I was obsessed with my grandmother June my whole life. And then I realized, well, I was told recently by my godmother that actually it's Olive who I embody. And so now I really want to come back and live life as her because she had one beer and one cigarette every day and she was life of the party. And so I just, I want to live that life for a day. I love it. Your biggest pet peeve. I really don't like when people say, I tried my best. I just don't, I don't, of course you did. We don't need to say it. Who would play you in a movie?

37:34My friends would say either Scarlett Johansson or Emily Blunt, which I'm fine with both. They're both icons. I would be too. Well, maybe not me, but if I were you, I'd like that. And I agree. I've heard you're a huge Taylor Swift fan. What's your favorite Taylor era and why? Reputation. You know, I also took the Harry Potter quiz. I'm a Slytherin, which I don't present as a Slytherin, for those who know. If you know, you know. But I am a Slytherin. And Taylor's reputation era is so badass. But I think Showgirl is going to be my new fave. So we'll see. We'll see when that comes out. What's the one thing you do just for you?

38:13Every night that I'm not out, you know. But if I'm home, I get into my bed after I put my daughter down. I get into my bed, and I just TikTok. and I just scroll TikTok. Sometimes I read, but mostly I TikTok. And it's just, I get to be in this comfy bed in my comfy pajamas having just showered and I'm just relaxed. And that is the best thing that I do for myself. Besides your family, what's your most prized possession? My great-grandmother Olive had an engagement ring. Like it was her engagement ring. And I received it from my godmother when my grandmother passed. And so I turned it into a necklace.

38:48I'm actually, I just took it off last night. because I had physical therapy, but I wear it almost every day. And so it's her engagement ring on a necklace. And it's, I love it so much. If I turn on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Already mentioned Taylor Swift, but if I had to give another answer, Eminem is my favorite, so. TikTok and Eminem, no wonder you're on trend. No wonder you're kicking butt, you know. What's something about you that few people would know? That I ever chill. I think I give a very enthusiastic, high energy. I think I act that way, but I do relax a lot. I am calmer than I appear.

39:26Great. Well, we're out of the light. You're on a great job. So you talked about your young daughter. How do you lead at home, Sarah? I really try to be, first of all, I'm a person who believes in structure, boundaries, and making sure that my daughter knows what success looks like. So I can be, I wouldn't say strict, but I can be pretty strict on certain things. And then on other things I'm completely unstrict about. So, and I'm really fun. So, you know, you have to have the right manners. You have to speak to people and look them in the eye. You have to be a person who reads and is curious in the world and works really hard.

40:09And so all of those things matter. And then what I also try to do is make her life as fun as possible and as filled with as much joy as possible. We're seasoned pass holders at Disneyland. We go often, you know, we really, I, I try to make sure she has a huge social life and I do a lot, you know, I volunteer at the school. Like I really try to make her life be, to understand that structure is really important and it's healthy and it's, it helps you be the best version of yourself while also having as much fun as possible. I am lucky because I work from home. So I'm able to structure, we have a remote company, so I'm able to structure my life a bit so that I can prioritize her.

40:53And my parents weren't able to do that. And so I really try to take advantage of that while also instilling the values that my brother and I grew up with that I really deeply appreciate. You know, you talked about, you know, life and the part of the joy of life is evolving and continuing to grow and making the most of that. Can you share with us what your dream come true story would be? In life or Olive and June or? Both. You know, how you look at it. What's your dream come true? Olive and June is part of it? Well, I will say, and I think this is part of who I am. I have a ton of gratitude. And so I already feel like I'm living my dream life.

41:35I don't, I'm so grateful for all the success of Olive and June. and I'm so thankful for it and for my daughter. And I think, you know, I'm obsessed with her. So I feel very happy and I do feel like I'm living a dream life. But for Olive and June to be the number one nail brand in the world is the reason why after selling a business and, you know, all of the success that comes with that, I am still day in, day out, 24 seven founder CEO and not leaving the business because I love my job. And because there's so much left, we have so much left. Like, I don't want to leave it on the field, right? I want to play the game.

42:15And so I get really excited to build all of Injun into the number one nail brand in the world. So that's probably the one dream that I haven't gotten. Well, you're on your way. And you know what they say about business? I always say the best thing about business is the unfinished business. And that's what seems to have you excited is that pursuit of that number one goal. Last question here. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? You can't escape hard work. Hard work and putting in the time and putting in the effort, putting in the research, nothing can be done without true hard work.

42:54No matter what it looks like or appears or someone tells you, it is always about grinding to get to the best answer. That's great advice. And I want to thank you, Sarah, for taking the time to be on this show and to share your insights and congratulate you on the phenomenal success that you've had. And I love it that we haven't seen anything yet. We haven't. And I'm honored to be here. Truly, I love your podcast. So I'm very honored to be a guest.

43:29David, I loved this episode with Sarah Gibson Tuttle. She is so amazing. So amazing. In fact, that I just sent her a DM on Instagram and told her how incredible I thought this interview was. And she actually just responded. So I'm curious, David, what's your reaction to your conversation with Sarah? I mean, you'd never met her before. What'd you think? No, I think Sarah's incredible. And I particularly loved her last answer, which is, you know, don't underestimate the power of just hard work. You know, I think so many people just want things so fast, so quickly. And, you know, they think they can get there for the, you know, 30 to 40 hour work week working virtually, but they don't realize just how you, if you really want to move up and, you know, achieve everything you can possibly achieve, you got to put the hard yards in, you got to put the work in.

44:18And I love that. She's obviously done that. She had vision for something different and she's pursued it and she, she's, she's not stop it. She's got goals. And I love that. I do too. And if you'll notice my nails are painted with olive and June nail polish. So quite apropos for this debrief conversation that we're going to have. I love some of the themes that Sarah touched on and that you two kind of discussed in the episode. So I want to just dive into what some of those themes were so that we can give people listening to the episode, something really tangible that they can take away to apply to their own leadership, to their own life and to their own career journey.

44:55You know, David, David, it was really obvious to me after listening to this interview that Sarah is the type of founder and leader who really knows herself. She knows how she tends to make decisions, and therefore she knows how to manage herself well so that she can show up for her team. And David, it's great when you work for a leader with high self-awareness, but there are a lot of leaders listening to this podcast who don't work with leaders with high self-awareness. In fact, they work for people that lack self-awareness. And I'm curious your perspective on what to do in that scenario when the person that you're working with or for lacks self-awareness.

45:31Well, I think, first of all, you need to do your job really well so you have credibility. You know, once you have credibility, then you may have the opportunity to actually opine on what your boss could be doing better. But I think once you really do start putting some points on the board and you become very valuable to the company, valuable to that leader, you're inevitably going to have some opportunity to be able to coach the person that you work with. And my belief has always been, as a team member, your job is to make your boss better. Your job is to make your boss better, your company better.

46:08And so when you have those opportunities to do it, you should take them. And I think the best way to earn the credibility to help your boss become better is to do your job extremely well and become so valuable that that person really needs you. And so when you have something to say, they're going to listen to you unless they're tone deaf. And sometimes that's a situation that does exist where just people, leaders are in jobs maybe they shouldn't be in. They're probably not going to get to a higher job because they are tone deaf. They don't have high enough self-awareness. But, you know, I think if you're a really good member of the team, you know, you try to help everybody get better around you.

46:47I love that. I love that. And that that theme of just really knowing yourself comes up a lot in the episode. And I love when Sarah talks about that moment that she realized that she was in the wrong role. She worked in finance for 10 years until one day she kind of finally admitted to herself that she didn't like her life or the way that it was shaping up. and she didn't like the work that she was doing. And she had the self-awareness and willingness to admit that and make that pivot. And so obviously she pivoted and now she's running this$100 million nail brand. You know, Bakul, I think one of the things that's interesting about that, and I write about it in my book called Taking People With You, and we teach it in all of our leadership programs, is you need to know yourself to grow yourself.

47:36The only way you can ever grow is to really know who you are and know what your capabilities are. And no, frankly, in the case of what she's talked about, if you happen to be one of these leaders who has low self-awareness, you learn that you've got low self-awareness and you need to move it up the ladder. But, you know, I think she understood the importance of doing what you love. And she was very good at what she did. You know, she was doing well. but she didn't have that positive buzz you got to have when you go to work. She wasn't like, as Warren Buffett says, tap dancing to work. She's going through the motions and she knew that life could be more than that.

48:19And I love how she pursued her passion. For people listening who might be in a similar spot of thinking about transitioning in their career. How do you do that well so that you don't burn bridges or create tension with the company or industry that you're leaving? It's very important to try to grow where you're at first. Look where you're at and say, hey, these are the things I want to do. Can I do it at this company? And then go to whoever you work with and try to pursue that opportunity if it's there. If it's not there, I always feel like you need to be doing your job well enough to where you can actually have a communication with your, with your, the person that you work for.

49:02And you kind of let them know what your frustrations are, where you, what you want to do with your life. And they hear that and you make sure that they do hear that. And they either try to help you do it at your company or when it's time for you to move on, you know, it's not a real big surprise, you know, because you've been honest with them about, you know, how you're feeling about the company and what you really want to do in your life. So, you know, I say you never really surprise people. And then when you leave, make sure you're leaving and going to a place that's going to help you pursue your passions and it's going to help you grow yourself, you know, so know yourself so that you know how to grow yourself and know where to go.

49:40So you move with purpose. Don't move, you know, just to move. You know, very few people change their lives by just crossing the street and doing a job somewhere else with just maybe a little bit more money. You know, that's really shouldn't be the reason why you move. You should move when you know that you can make a quantum leap in your learning and in your growth. And I always feel like the biggest thing you can do is when you're not growing, try to figure out how you can grow where you're at. And if you can't go grow where you're at, go somewhere where you can. I love it. That's a great dovetail into this final kind of theme and concept that I want to debrief with you, David.

50:24Sarah shares in the interview that something like 96 % of women feel better about themselves when their nails are done. And honestly, I agree. So before this episode, I literally painted my nails so that I talk with my hands so that when you see my hands, I'll look put together because my nails are done. And I feel a little bit more elevated and chic because I painted my nails. And I think that what she's really getting at is the little things that you can do on a personal level that boost your self-esteem and confidence and help you show up in a way that's more positive so that you can contribute in a more meaningful way to the people around you.

51:02So David, I want to know, is that something that leaders need to be thinking about? Is it important? And what are some of the things you do to boost your self-esteem? Well, first of all, I love the fact that she understands that. she understands the power of nails. She understands that you feel better because you've got those white nails with that white sweater and your white earphones, you know, and that's why she has so many different colors. That's why she has seasonal nails. That's why Halloween's a big period for her because she knows people like to lift themselves up and lift other people up and create almost conversations around their nails.

51:41And I see that happening all the time with women that I happen to have the opportunity to hang around. You know, they like looking nice. They like being on trend. And I think that's really powerful. So, you know, what do I do to lift myself up? I mean, I don't know. I guess probably the most important thing I do is try to stay in shape. I think it's just when I work out every day, I really enjoy that. And it picks me up. And I like having my whoop watch because I like to see my progress. I like to understand what my performance is. And so because I'm regular and disciplined on this front, I'm constantly making progress.

52:24It's reflected in my whoop. And so that lifts me up. And I'll tell you, the other thing that I have a great appreciation for is being dressed properly. You know, I like to I like to wear things that are stylish, look good and and do the best I can with what little I have. I love that. It feels almost silly for me to say, but there's it actually makes a real impact in the way that I show up and the attention that I have to to share with the people that I work with and with the actual work that I'm doing. When I look good by painting my nails or for you wearing something nice and on trend, you feel good.

53:12And when you feel good, you're more fun to be around. Everyone has a better time. And ultimately, the product that you produce is just going to be better. You know, if you talk to anybody in the fashion industry or the clothing industry, you know, what do they tell you to buy? They tell you to buy stuff that you feel confident in. Totally. And so I think that that's something that, you know, people should constantly be working on is their confidence level. You know, you should be working on something that makes you feel good, makes you project, makes you, you know, have this sense of confidence that can inspire, assuming you have confidence.

53:49I always say confidence goes along, you know, with, you know, with confidence. You can't have the confidence without the confidence. competence. But if you have that, then I think you should be looking for ways to lift yourself up. Hey, Olive and June started out as an in-person nail salon, and now Sarah Gibson Tuttle is growing it to over$100 million. And that is a whole heck of a lot of$8 bottles of nail polish. So don't ever underestimate what feeling good about yourself can do for a business. And how about the Olive and June story? She names it out for her grandmother and great-grandmother.

54:26And, you know, I thought it was sort of a clunky brand name, but it seems to be working. A hundred million dollars isn't bad. Absolutely. David, thanks so much for the debrief. I really enjoyed. I always enjoy talking to you, especially when I'm so obsessed with the person that you interviewed. Well, we try to have people that on the show that everybody's obsessed with, but I'm really glad you love Sarah. Well, that does it for today's episode of How Leaders Lead. Be sure to tune in next Thursday for David's conversation with Nick Green. He's the co-founder and CEO of Thrive Market, and you are going to love this episode.