#261: Nathan Smith, Walker Cup Captain – Know what your people need to excel

19:24And I watched him get on the first hole and lose the first hole. And all of a sudden you're like, oh boy, here we go. We're in it now. And he came back and won. Well, you never ever show that you're under pressure. Well, you can't do that. I don't think you can do that. I mean, I don't think you can do that. You're turning inside. I mean, I would say the pressure's tremendous. At the end of the day, It's your team. It's all going to be on you. Winning has a thousand fathers. Losing's an orphan. You lose. It's going to be all on me. I accepted that. And but you can't you can't show these guys that, you know, you got to stay loose.

19:56You got to keep them hyped up.

19:58David Novak:Well, how do you do that? I mean, how do you not show pressure when you're feeling that you're like a I think you mentioned to me once you're like a duck? Well, you just you got it. You got to stay talking. You got to slap them. You got to slap on the rear. You say, let's go. You know, let's grind them down. You know, You're staying loose. You're not going to go in the corner and just sulk or be quiet. Everybody's looking to you to set the tone. And you've got to clap a little bit and just say, you know, get the positive. It was a heck of a shot. You hit on 15. Great putt. Let's go. And some guys need it.

20:29Other guys don't. They're locked in. But you just need to know your team and who needs what and all the different personalities. But I think you've just got to keep it loose. And we basically just came in and we just said we were having lunch. Yeah, we're going to go grind them down this afternoon. Let's go get them.

20:42David Novak:And speaking of grinding down, in the second day, in the afternoon singles, you basically dominate them. You only lost one match out of 10. What did you say to the guy that lost? Wow. I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything, that's for sure. So he was a lot. I mean, there's actually a funny story real quick about that where we're on, and it doesn't matter. He's an incredible player, Michael Lestasa. But the fog rolled in, if you watched it, and we got out on 16 and he was down. And I thought we were going to call the match and we're going to have this moment where Dean and I were going to shake hands.

21:24He was going to see. And we got up to the tee and the GB &I guy hit it into the fog. So it's like they wanted to play. And then Michael and I, I mean, Mike's like, we couldn't see. We thought he might have hit it in the ocean. And Michael's like, should I lay up? Is this an embarrassing thing? So we're on national TV, kind of like this with her. Anyway, he ended up laying it up. They have the hold. Then he hit it up against the fence on 17, and he whiffed the chin. And it was just – it was fun. The guy – at that point, it was over. So the guys were, you know, laughing a different thing. And he was really – I'd say he was the lifeblood of the team and really kept everything loose and fun.

21:57He was a key person on the team. So it was okay. It was okay that he did that. He's an incredible young man.

22:02David Novak:Yeah, well, he was incredible, and it was an incredible performance by the entire team. And, you know, I want to shift gears for a little bit here now, Nathan. And, you know, what's a story from your upbringing that shaped the kind of leader you are today? That's a great question. You know, you'd probably have to say anytime you talk about your upbringing, you have to talk about your parents. You know, I think my parents were really supportive of anything I did. Probably say came from humble beginnings, you know, in Brookville, a small, hardworking, a small town in Western PA with a lot of people that worked hard.

22:35and, you know, really nothing was given. You had to kind of work for it. And that was really like everybody in the town. Anything you wanted, you had to go after. It was hard work. Nothing was easy, whether it was school, sports, work. I think that town in particular was very hardworking, blue collar. And I think probably, I'd say a lot of that, you know, credit to that. I mean, everything was a little bit of an uphill climb. Nothing was easy. So, yeah, I think that. And then, you know, going forward, I think there's certain people that you go through and work and mentors or people that bring you along and in business or take you under their wing and you learn from.

23:16And whether that goes from, you know, somebody in high school or college or, you know, I think that any time and then you try to kind of somewhat probably pay that forward. if I could help somebody else who helped me, you know, mentored me in business. You know, so that's the best way I could probably describe it.

23:37David Novak:You know, in my research, I read an article that said that this about you said, you're a four-time NCAA All-American, two-time academic All-American, the 2001 Division III National Runner-Up. Smith didn't just compete. He elevated everyone around him. how did you show up in a way that, that, that it wasn't only about your success, but that you raised the bar for, for everyone? I think for me, I, I loved, um, sports. I loved all sports. I love basketball. I love baseball. I, I, it kind of landed on golf. Um, I couldn't get enough of anything. I I'd probably say I'm a high rep guy. I love, there's a fear of failure that, um, that I love practicing, but at the same time, there's a feel failure.

24:22And I I'd probably say, especially in college. I mean, there were a lot of times that there were some snowy days that we were loading up the car and got all the bags and back. We're going, we're going to the range all together. And it was kind of like, after everybody was out of class, we're going, we're going to hit some balls. And, you know, I think, I don't know. I think I'm a people person too. I'm not really, I mean, even though golf is somewhat of a lonely individual sport, I think I'm a people person, always had people around and, you know, I wanted what's best for the team. And I wanted to have a national championship team.

24:52I wanted to compete. I wanted to be the best. You know, I wanted it for myself, but I wanted it for everyone else too. And, you know, that's a great quote. That's nice whoever said that, but I feel like, you know, everybody else, we were all kind of in it together and wanted to win. The fun's always in the winning. So we wanted to go do it.

25:10David Novak:You know, and you've built such a successful career in insurance, but how did you first get started in that business, Nathan? Coming out of Allegheny College, I went, I got my MBA in finance, you know, in graduate school. And then I had met, I had met someone that had an insurance business and I started working for them. And then, you know, I met somebody else and, you know, through USI went over and actually somebody who kind of, you know, mentored me, kind of, kind of brought me over. And, you know, I think it was an incredible fit. And I'd done a lot of joint work, you know, with that person.

25:49And they kind of pulled me over. And it's been great. It's been great. So I think that that's something I just got in. It's usually like it's amazing with golf, the people you meet and friendships and business relationships that develop through that. And it was something that it was kind of timely where I was just out of grad school and met a few people and kind of off and running.

26:10David Novak:You know, and insurance is all about understanding risk and golf is too. I mean, you have to really think about what's going on out there in that course. What have you learned about risk management that applies across both? Well, I would say I'm a little, I'd say I'm a little more with, with some clients of ours. I'm not really cutting them loose. Like we are some of the players I was letting them go. We're not exactly, I wouldn't let them hit it all over the, you know, place. So we're a little more, we're a little more structured and everything in the work aspect of it. But, you know, I think with that, I think that everybody has, you know, their own individual business.

26:44You know, there's everything from construction and manufacturing to real estate and, you know, maybe some cannabis companies that I do. I think they all have their individual thing. They're not, you're not any type of cookie cutter. You have to let them be themselves and deal with that and adapt to their business and help them as far as their, you know, individual risk. And it's the same with, you know, the 10 guys on the team. I mean, everybody has their different, you know, they're all 10 different individuals and you gotta, you gotta let them, you know, be themselves. There's not one cookie cutter theme.

27:17They're all different. Everybody's different and you have to adapt to change. You have to adapt to different individuals and their needs. That probably overarches. I think the other thing with golf and business, I'm always been a, like a high rep guy. I think that, I think that if you're practicing any sport, I think you have to practice so much a day. I think you have to make so many phone calls. You have to be, you know, do this for your clients. And, you know, I think that in golf, if you want to practice, you got to hit a lot of golf balls. So, I mean, both are like, you know, I believe in reps, I believe in hard work and, you know, those are kind of the overarching themes.

27:49David Novak:Tell me a story about the biggest risk that you've taken in your career and, and what the outcome was. I don't know. Maybe, maybe I'm about to take it. I don't know. That's a great question. Yeah, I think I would probably say the biggest risk is when you you leave somewhere and go somewhere else. I think you have to believe in yourself. You have to believe in the people around you. You know, I did that. I think that you can get comfortable in certain things in life. You know, I don't really believe in, you know, jumping around. But at that time, I needed to make a change with my job. I believe some of the people that were over there.

28:26And I think you have to believe in the people you're working with and want to kind of evolve with them in different things. And you always have to keep getting better. That's tough to do. I mean, if people out there, it's tough to change jobs and change and believe and take a step with faith. And it's not always about if you're getting, you know, a few more dollars. I think it's just, it's hard. So I'm sure a lot of people have done that. I was, no different that I had to go to a different job. And it was tough. It's tough, but it was rewarding.

28:59David Novak:Insurance is all about building relationships and trust like so many other businesses. But how do you build that kind of trust that allows you to win in the marketplace, whether it's with your customers? And obviously, you did it with the Walker Cup team. I would probably say you have to double down. Listen, at the end of the day, it's great. I've met a lot of these people through golf, but I think you have to show them that you're there for them. It's like, we're not just being with you for you so you can go out and play golf and different things. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a great team around me. We're great with service.

29:33You know, we're constantly there. We're, we're, I think you just need to show, I would say it's almost like with all the great golf stuff, you almost have to double down and show them you're working twice as hard. Like, you know, I'm, I'm there. It's not just like, Hey, that's great. I I saw you on TV. What about our program? You know, so have a great team around me of individuals. But at the same time, I'd probably say I try to show that I'm working a lot, you know, twice as hard that I'm that I'm there. So and I appreciate them. And, you know, we do a lot of things outside the office, too, and different things.

30:04But that we're working hard and saving the money is huge. You know, I don't mean to insult you on this, Nathan, but I don't think too many coaches would necessarily teach people your swing, your golf swing.

30:16David Novak:You know, but because I like the result. I like the result of what happens after you, but you tee the ball up higher than anybody I've ever seen. You got this little pause at the top that's kind of jerks up there a little bit. It's not exactly a, it's not like beautiful, you know, you perform at the highest levels. Like I said, the result is always there. And I'm sure people have tried to mess with your swing. but how do you internally build that conviction to stick to your guns? Well, I would say, I feel like, you know, I did have some shoulder surgery. So at times I've told you this before, I feel like a bird with one wing, you know, trying to fly.

30:56It is a little, and to people, it's not, to people listening, it's not the worst swing in the world, but anyway, it's okay. It's not like, you know, I can't make contact. I'm trying to think. It's not like Charles Barkley swing or something.

31:07David Novak:No, no, you've played in the Masters four times. Yeah, well, there's hope for everyone. If you watch me hit a ball, there's hope for everyone. I've played four times. Everybody out there should know they should, you know, have a chance to do that. Listen, it's, as you get older, you have surgeries, it is what it is. But I think it's just through repetitions, through different things. You know, fortunately or unfortunately, that's me. That's my body. That's how I swing. So are you saying you had a really great swing at one point in time and now it sucks? I can't even say. I don't even know. I don't even know.

31:39That's what I'm trying to stick with right now. That's what I'm going, well, before you met me, you should have seen me. Yeah, probably not. But it is what it is. I don't know. It's just that people's bodies move in different ways. I wish I could swing like Adam Scott or Tiger. I just, you know, I am what I am.

31:57David Novak:There you go. Popeye the Sailor Man. So you did play in the Masters four times. What's your favorite story inside the ropes of Augusta National? Well, I think that, you know, playing with Palmer, Arnold Palmer in his last one in 2004, to come up 18, play with him for two days, and his last one was really special. You know, I had my dad on the bag all four times when I played. That was special. He had the big white jumper on and everything that you got to wear, the caddy bib. I just think being with Palmer on that back nine was really special to see, you know. First of all, there were so many people out there.

32:32It felt like a SEC football game. where it was like 50 deep everywhere. You know how that gets out there. And just the whole, seemed like the whole course descended on, you know, Palmer's back nine. And it was unbelievable to see the love and support for him. And just to be a part of that, I'd probably say in ways that kind of got me ready for some other stuff. Because once you play in that, in that atmosphere, everything else feels like a club championship because there's so many people. But that was one of the highlights. And I think even earlier that week, staying in the crow's nest at that time, I came back from dinner one time and I think all the champions were at that time they were in that clubhouse upstairs and to see them all with the green jackets.

33:13And as I walked past, they were getting picture. It was, it was incredible, but they're little funny stories through the course of the week where they give you kind of like a club car and you go out with the family to like Carrabba's and you have this masters, you know, Lexus or Cadillac and everybody comes in, they're looking for, Oh, there's a master's car. There's a player in here. And meanwhile, you're thinking And that's me. I'm sitting here with my family, but they're looking for, you know, some pro because they see the master's vehicle outside. But it was truly an incredible experience being down there and on the grounds.

33:42It was almost, you know, too much fun. It was it was it's hard to even describe it or put it in words.

33:47David Novak:So you get to play with the great Arnold Palmer, you know, who's also from Pennsylvania, you know, had to be your your hometown hero almost. You know, what'd you pick up by being around him that you think every leader should remember? I think the first thing that you see with Arnold Palmer is just how he treats people. I think he has time for every autograph. He signs his name perfectly every time. If anybody has an Arnold Palmer autograph, his name's legible. It's perfect. He has time for everyone. I don't think I've just seen anybody that I think everybody that's been around him has just had a great experience.

34:24And I think the way he makes people feel, you know, I know how he made me feel. And I know everybody in Western Pennsylvania loves him. I mean, he's their hero. He's always taking time to be around people, to talk to people, to take a picture, to take an autograph, to do a favor, to do a charity. It's really endless. And I think, you know, everybody has a story how Arnold Palmer touched their life. And that's probably what, you know, leaders, if you have time for people, if you engage in people, how you make them feel, if you uplift them, you know, you're going to get much better, you know, results and everything.

34:58And Palmer was just, you know, there's nobody like Honor Palmer.

35:01David Novak:You got to play in the Masters, which is great. But, you know, as we mentioned earlier, you played in three Walker Cups and now you've been a captain of a Walker Cup team. Would you rather play or be a captain? If we're going to win, I'd rather be a captain. I don't know if I could go. I tell you what, it's like, I don't know if I could go through that. again, that was, that was so intense. The pressure was, uh, you know, there's nothing like being a winning captain, I would say, because it's your team, it's all on you. And, uh, the stress, it's a helpless feeling. I mean, you can't, you can't play it's, they're all watching it.

35:35I mean, you get, and you make the lineups, you do everything. If you're a player, you just go play and you're one of 10 guys and, you know, you try to, you know, um, do what you can, but, But the pressure of being a captain, especially at Cyprus, I felt like it was like the most watched. And just it was a lot. It was a lot of pressure. So thank goodness we got it done. So you'd rather be a winning captain than a player? Yeah, if I could be a winning captain.

36:04David Novak:Thank God you won, because I think I wouldn't be having this interview with right now, even if I tried. I told you I would have walked right in the ocean, given my body the seals. You wouldn't have seen me ever again. This has been so much fun. And I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions with you. Nathan, are you ready for this? Okay, I'm ready. The three words that best describe you? Fun, intense, hardworking. What's your biggest pet peeve? People not trying. Who would play you in a movie? Brad Pitt. What's a lasting memory of making the winning putt at the 2013 Walker Cup?

36:37I think hugging Jim Holgraves, my captain who was out there following. I gave him a big hug.

36:44David Novak:Imagine this is the final round of a big tournament. You're on the 18th hole. It's a par four, and you need a birdie to win. But someone has to hit the shots for you, okay? Who hits the drive? Rory McIlroy. Who's hitting the approach shot? Colin Morikawa. Who's putting? Tiger Woods. I thought you'd say yourself, except for you're humble. because you are known for me. I'll take the flag out for Tiger. You're the best amateur putter in the world. Everybody knows that, okay? What's the one thing you do just for you? Work out. Besides your family, what's your most prized possession? Probably, I got a signed flag from Tiger from the Walker Cup.

37:30That'd probably take precedence right now, you know? If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You'd actually, it's, you wouldn't hear anything. I hardly ever listen to the music. Seems like I'm always talking on my phone. What's something about you a few people would know? I think in closed quarters, I think I'm extremely funny. You would know that, but it can get really funny. What's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss? You know, I try to get to the gym every day. I try to get to the gym every day. You should look a lot thinner, you know? I should look a lot better.

38:06I always say this to people. It's scary. A lot of people listening to this are like, this guy has an awful swing. He's awful. I mean, it's like, you know, I always say, what if I didn't work out?

38:17David Novak:You look great. Your swing is not that bad for a guy who's had a number of injuries. You look very good. All right, we're out of the lightning round. Here we go. We're going to wrap this up with a few more questions. But, you know, one thing about golf that requires such mental aptitude, you know, the ability to be focused and to stay in the present. And how do you think golf and business compare in that? And how have you brought the golf mindset to business? Well, if you play a golf course, there are always going to be ups and downs. You know, there are obstacles everywhere. You know, sand traps, tiered greens, fast greens, wind, everything.

38:56I think that, you know, the highs and lows of a round are how life is, I think, how business is. And you just have to keep, you just have to keep going. You just have to keep grinding out. I mean, I think that golf has always been an extension of somebody's personality. I mean, that's what I love playing with you. You're such a grind. You're never going to give up. Doesn't matter what happens, high, low, whatever you're the next shot you're going full bore on. And I just think that golf really, you know, reveals somebody's personality and that's just life, like life and business. I mean, everybody's had up and downs and you just got to keep going.

39:32You just got to keep trying, grinding, just going forward. And I think that that's something that golf has probably taught me mentally that comes into business and vice versa.

39:45David Novak:With the 17-9 score that you had this year with the Walker Cup victory, that really made a huge statement. How do you think this group will go down in Walker Cup history in terms of just the caliber of the team? you're always viewed, you know, how you win, who's on the team. I think now it'll be fun to watch these guys kind of go to the next level. Some of them might be on, you know, next year's team, but I think a lot of them will go on the tour and do some things. And I think that it's a group that, what's special about the Walker Cup is you always have the text chain that'll keep going. It could be Christmas Eve, could be New Year's Eve, guys are sending funny things.

40:28And And that still goes on to the teams that I played, you know, 15 or 16 years ago. You know, you're forever. All you guys, the guys who are on the team were all thrown into a foxhole. It was kind of us versus the world, even though if you're home or away and you're forever bonded by that. And if somebody does something great, we're all texting. And, you know, there was even a couple of tournaments the week after. Guys are texting, saying, hey, great job. And you have that text chain forever. And you always have those guys forever. And if I what I told him, you know, Sunday night, I said, hey, if you guys I love you guys, you're incredible.

41:00If you need absolutely anything in life, you know, I'm here for you. And that's I'll do anything for those guys. And, you know, I'm always going to be there for them. So it's really a special group.

41:10David Novak:If you could make a prediction, Nathan, on who on that team has the potential to be the number one golfer in the world, who would it be? Well, I think there are a number of guys that honestly have that potential. You know, I think that they'd get mad at me if I'd say, but there's, you know, I think a lot of those guys coming out, whether it's, you know, probably, you know, Jackson Coivin or Ben James, Michael LoSasso, Preston Stout, Tommy Morrison, you know, they're going to be out. I think any of those guys with hard work can get it done. And I can't just say what, you know, I can't just, you know, Mason Howell's incredible.

41:50David Novak:Oh, you're going to go, you're going to blame all 10 of them. Forget it. Forget about it. Okay, you can stop right now. You know, golf can feel like an individual sport. I mean, it is an individual sport where your identity gets totally tied up in whatever score you had. How have you made sure that your self-worth isn't defined by the number on the card or let's say the results that you might have in a particular year? That's a great question because I, as you get older, you see some guys that go into a little bit of a funk in life if they're not playing, because I think they don't realize it, but golf was their everything.

42:26I think that it was you I think golf can sometimes become your self-worth or you have to have things be important, whether family or work or different things. You have to have a lot of diversity in your life. And if you put too much emphasis on golf, that's eventually it's like the golf isn't going to be, you know, there's going to come a day where, you know, you're not going to play good golf. You're not able to play golf. I think that, you know, you need to focus on more what's important with golf and the people who you meet and friendships and how you use the game to enjoy it or meet people for what it is.

42:59I can't tell you, I mean, it's with you or I or anybody. The game of golf, I mean, I can't – I mean, you could probably – there's thousands and thousands of people that you've met through the game of golf that it's incredible, these friendships that you wouldn't have otherwise made. And I think you need to keep the focus on that rather than, hey, I shot 72 today or I didn't play well. You know, I think it's just, you need to keep that in mind and you should, everyone should realize that as they get older. I know that a lot of golfers, and including myself,

43:30David Novak:we can almost remember every shot we've ever hit or where we hit it or, you know. But I remember asking you, I said, what was your Walker Cup record? And you told me you didn't know what it was. Yeah. That's hard for me to believe. And I played with a couple of Ryder Cup players this past weekend And they, after a little bit of thought, they could come up with their record in a hurry. Are you BS-ing me or is that really the case? Listen, I mean, if you play on one team and you know what, I would say I played on three in a row and I would, you know, I could try to add it up now. But I don't have that number that doesn't define me.

44:09I mean, what I know is, and I didn't go 0-7 for everybody. That's why I didn't want to say it. I mean, it's probably, it's not like I, hey, he doesn't want to tell me because he lost every match. I mean, it was probably around 500 or maybe, you know, one above that or something. But, you know, we won two out of three cups. That's the most important thing. And, yeah.

44:29David Novak:You're also the first to tell me or anybody when you talk about your master's experience, you know, that you missed the cut by one shot because you made a double bogey on the 18th hole. Now, how do you get over that kind of disappointment? You know, because those disappointments happen in sport and they happen in business. When you have that loss, you know, what do you do to pick yourself back up? In life, I remember when that happens and a lot of people ask me that. And I'm like, well, I'm going to play next year. I'm going to play in it next year. And of course, it took me maybe five years to get back there.

45:05And a lot of people, they never get to play again. But I think, you know, just mentally, I was like, well, I'm going to go back. I'm going to go. And I felt that then the next time, well, I'm going to go back. I'm going to make it next time. I'm going to keep working hard. I can do this. I can do this. And I think that I didn't really, I think at the time I was, you know, you're a little naive and you don't realize how forever something would be, but you're just like, well, I'm going to, I'm going to do it again. I'm going to try again. I'm going to just stay after it. And, you know, I think sometimes the results, I mean, I feel that, you know, I don't know.

45:37I don't know what else I could have done. I tried. I thought I hit a good drive and, you know, bounces, you know, down the left and behind. And all of a sudden, it happens. And it just is what it is. But I think you just have to keep going as hard as it is and different things. And I think that I think it's funny with that. I mean, that maybe everybody could learn a lesson. if I would have, let's say, made par and made the cut, I might not have won four mid-amps. I might not have played in four masters. I think that failure, if you want to call it that, on 18, drove me to the way it ended to not make the cut like that, drove me to get back there.

46:16And then maybe I missed another cut, and I'm like, I want another one. So if you have this massive success, I think that drove me to go win four mids and get chances. And, you know, so it always, it's funny how things work out like that. So maybe your biggest failures can turn into sometimes your biggest success. And now people, instead of say, hey, you missed the cut, hey, well, you won four mid-amps.

46:38David Novak:That's right. And played in four masters, which most people would never would get the opportunity to do. Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? I think listen and engage your people. I think that, and that's something that you've been incredible on. I think the way to uplift people is listen to them, make them feel important, and put them in situations to succeed. And I just think you need to, you can't be standoffish. You need to engage with people as a leader. And I think that's how you get the best results. Before I let you off the hook, one more last question.

47:18David Novak:You know, you listened and engaged your team and you win the Walker Cup this year. You're going to La Hinch in Ireland in a couple of years. Nathan, are you going to feel any pressure or now you just got it greased? Well, I can't quite think about that now because we just got over it, but we'll get back to it. I'm sure when there's 25 ,000 people over there, we'll be feeling the pressure. But that'll be, I think you're going to have a mini Ryder Cup atmosphere over there. But there's always pressure. But I feel right now you're playing with a little bit of house money, but there'll definitely be pressure, no doubt.

47:53David Novak:That's right. Yeah, don't tell your next team you're playing with house money. That's right. That's right. Well, they'll listen to this podcast and you're going to be in trouble. Oh, yeah, that's a great point. Well, one thing about you, Nathan, is you are not standoffish. You are always engaged. You're always, you treat everybody with respect. And, you know, and I just hacked the ball around a little bit. But one of my great joys is I got the opportunity to play with you. And the thing, when you became the Walker Cup captain, of course, everyone knew you would because of your record and who you are.

48:32David Novak:But I knew we couldn't have a better person leading the United States team because you know how to lift people up. And when we played, I hit the ball all over hell. But the only thing you would ever say is, I've got you, partner. And you did. and for all of you out there I nicknamed this guy Drano because we played we played at the dive preserve and they have these drains in the middle of the fairway and we would play alternate shot or he would hit his drive and it would always be right there by the drain and I'd have to mark it you know and move it over a driver's length away and but you know you you just are incredibly steady an amazing player and he drains every putt so see that's that's the other thing about Drano.

49:15David Novak:But Nathan, congratulations on your victory. Congratulations, more importantly, on being just such a stand up, high quality, humble guy. And you were all of those things. Well, listen, you've been a great friend through the years and I appreciate you talking to the guys back in December and hosted them. Like I said, you set the tone for that team and you know, you're just the best. I love this and thank you for having me. All right, buddy.

49:42David Novak:okay david you and nathan smith clearly are great friends you've clearly played golf together a bunch and i love the kind of like jovial nature that you have with him i mean i'm surprised the guy ended the interview with any self-confidence at all i mean you talked about how bad a swing was how he should look better because he loves working out i mean how long have you guys been friends I don't know. It's probably about eight years or so, but he's a great guy. And, uh, you know, he gives it and he can take it. I love it. I love it. Well, Nathan is the captain of the Walker cup team that just won the Walker cup recently.

50:16David Novak:And before we get in David to some of the concepts and themes that you two talked about, I want to know if you agree with Nathan when he says that But Cypress Point is the best looking golf club in the world. Well, it's the most beautiful golf course in the world, without question. The views of the ocean are just incredible. And if you want to take a look at the telecast of the Walker Cup, you know, look at the drone shots. I mean, it's just amazing. You know, I think if there's one course that you could play every day, it'd be hard to beat Cypress Point because it's a great walk. I mean, you can't imagine how beautiful it is.

50:55And it's a walk that you just kind of, you just want to take advantage of every single

51:01David Novak:time. Never take it for granted. You're seeing God's work at work. It's amazing. Well, I'm so grateful, David, that I was able to tune into the Walker Cup and see the views of Cypress Point because obviously I've heard about it being a golfer and it's rare that you would ever get the chance to be on that property. So it looked insane on the coverage of the Walker Cup. And so I can only imagine what it's like to be there and be in Nathan Smith's shoes and coach the U.S. team to victory, which, of course, he did. And I love, David, in the episode, you ask him about what it's like to manage exceptional talent.

51:39David Novak:So for those that don't know, the Walker Cup captain basically gets to pick the best amateur golfers in the country to represent the country as they go up against Great Britain and Ireland. And these are unbelievably talented golfers, leaders and individuals. And when you asked him that question, David, what it's like to manage exceptional talent, he says, well, you can't muzzle a racehorse. And I just love that. So he kind of says, you know, I just I just let them do what they need to do to be great. I'm so curious how you think about managing exceptional talent and if you two share that same philosophy.

52:15David Novak:First of all, I think you need to tell the racehorse that you know he's a racehorse or she's a racehorse. You know, let them know how much you believe in them. Let them know that you know they have the capability. Let them know that you know they can deliver the results. And then, you know, the racehorses, they know how to get to the finish line. You don't want to micromanage them. You want to let them go. And at the same time, I think you kind of want to find a way to raise the bar just a little bit. You know, let them know that, you know, you know that they're capable of doing more than just what most people do.

52:54David Novak:You know that they're capable of taking it to a whole different level. And I think the racehorses love running a faster race. and I think as the coach, you kind of need to be that jockey, which, you know, when it's time to win the race, they kind of, you give the, give, give the pat on the butt to that horse to go, let's go. And so you kind of, kind of give them that little extra, extra push to take it to the highest level. Does that same sort of mindset and paradigm apply when you're coaching your team in a business as well? Yeah, I think so. I think so. First of all, you want to build an A team.

53:31David Novak:You know, I always believed in the A-team mentality. You know, you want to have people know they're on the A-team. They got to be A-players. And you let them know they're the A-team. And A-teams don't underperform. A-teams exceed expectations. That's just what we do. And you kind of just kind of carry yourself that way. That speaks to kind of another one of these concepts that you and Nathan talked about quite a bit in the episode. It's all about, you talked a lot about setting the tone for the team as the captain or as the coach. And David, I love what you said. You know, you have to remind the racehorse that they are actually a racehorse.

54:10David Novak:What else would you say to leaders who are kind of stepping into maybe a new role as a coach or a manager? And they're looking to really set the tone for the rest of their team. I think you have to really understand that you cast a shadow. People are looking at you as the leader. They're watching what you do, and they're going to basically emulate what you do. People do follow the leader. And Nathan Smith is the perfect captain because, A, he has demonstrated over time that he knows what it takes to win. This is a guy who won four mid-amps and played in the Masters four years. So he obviously is someone who is competent at what he does, and he knows the game.

54:55David Novak:So, you know, he has that credibility. And I think leaders need to have that credibility. He is the most positive person in the world. I mean, he believes that, you know, being positive lifts people up, being negative brings people down. So he casts a positive shadow. When you're building a team, you know, positivity lifts the team, lifts the organization. And he demonstrates that in spades. When you have tough times, when maybe somebody loses that you didn't expect to lose, you can't panic. You got to be steady. You got to cast a shadow of belief that we're going to prevail and that we've got what it takes.

55:43David Novak:And you can't walk around and look like you're a loser. You want to look like you're a winner at all times and act like you're a winner at all times. These are just some of the things that he does that sets the right tone for what I think is any team. It's crazy to think about how impactful those little things really are. Like Nathan talks about in the interview, Great Britain and Ireland were inching back in a match or maybe in the overall points. And, you know, he said, I didn't get tense. I didn't get nervous. I didn't sulk in a quiet corner by myself. Like I made myself known. I made my energy known.

56:21David Novak:I kept hyping the guys up. I kept clapping. You know, I'm not acting like we're losing. And that mindset is so powerful. It doesn't maybe sound like it would be, but it's crazy what that does to the energy with the team. You know, what was interesting about that comment is that he made himself do it. I mean, he might have been feeling a little negative underneath. He might have been feeling a little down that you had that happen. But he wasn't going to show it. He was going to show his belief. there's a saying that you become what you think you are. If you, if you act like a winner, you're going to be a leader.

56:57David Novak:You know, one of my mantras that I always had was be the leader, act like the leader. And that meant everybody in the organization, not just me, because everybody can lead. Absolutely. He talks about, uh, the, being the captain of the Walker cup team as the most pressure he's ever been under in his entire life. And he's a quite an accomplished businessman as well. So, I mean, I can't imagine the level of that pressure, but to your point, David, he says, you know, you can't show that you're sweating it ever because people are looking at you. He said, winning has a thousand fathers. Losing is an orphan.

57:33David Novak:And I just love that saying. I think it, it carries so much weight and it makes me want to be more of a winner. And also, uh, it makes me want to just embody that mindset, even maybe if I am sweating it, or if our team is losing. Nathan was in a spotlight that he's never been in before. You know, think about it. You're the captain of the United States of America team. Everybody in the world of golf is watching. And a lot of people outside of the world of golf are tuning in and watching. He's never really had that kind of visibility before. And when you get in these spots where you have pressure that is unlike anything you've ever had before, that's where you really see the metal of the person.

58:24David Novak:And what we really saw with Nathan Smith is the fact that he's got character. You know, I had the good fortune of being out at Cypress Point this past weekend, and everybody was talking about how much they love that guy. And that's because he carries himself with such confidence and he's so competent. And he's everything that you would ever expect in any captain and in any leader. So I would follow him. I'm very happy to have him as a partner, by the way, because even though I joke about his golf swing, it's damn good. I wish I had it. Do you really call him Drano? I mean, if you call him Drano, he's got to be good.

59:02David Novak:He drains every putt and he hits everything right down the middle of the fairway where the drain might happen to be. I love it. I love it. I love it. Well, David, excellent interview per usual for golf fans and for non-golf fans. There's just so much about the way that Nathan has led this Walker Cup team that is applicable to your leadership, your work and your life. So I personally loved this as a golf fan myself. And I think everyone else is going to love it, too. So thank you so much. And thank you for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead. We'll see you back here next week. Thank you.