In short
Michael Meldman’s brand-building playbook across Discovery Land Company (private resort golf/lifestyle communities), Casamigos Tequila (with George Clooney and Randy Gerber), and NFL ownership (Las Vegas Raiders). He argues “be one of one” by designing a differentiated experience, then staying consistent and learning project-by-project.
Guests
Michael Meldman (founder/chairman of Discovery Land Company; co-founder of Casamigos Tequila; part owner of the Las Vegas Raiders). David (host; co-leader/host of How Leaders Lead; discusses leadership/brand takeaways and asks questions).
Key claims
Discovery’s golf is subsidized to sell real estate; golf isn’t the profit engine. “Consistency” and “learning from every project” drive excellence. Leadership is talent nurturing and investing time in people. Loyalty is a core trait. For Casamigos, the product quality plus a simple origin story enabled rapid scale.
Notable examples
Discovery’s “comfort stations” and relaxed dress code came from trying to get his kids to enjoy golf. Estancia (Arizona) used Tom Fazio and reduced density (253 units vs 900) after environmental constraints. Baker’s Bay rebuilt after Hurricane Dorian with daily member communication. Casamigos launched with 24,000 cases in year one; sold out in two days; sold for $1B in four years.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOTransition to Personal Stories
0:46 to 1:30
Michael Meldman discusses his wardrobe shift from Casamigos to Raiders.
“What's your favorite George Clooney Casamiga story?”
Passion for Football and Raiders
1:30 to 4:33
Michael shares his lifelong passion for football and his journey to NFL ownership.
“And when I started The Hills and redid and bought the Dune Deck in the Hamptons, I kind of wore pink as a joke because everyone on the East Coast is so preppy and I'm a West Coast guy.”
Building the Discovery Brand
4:33 to 9:49
Exploration of Discovery's unique approach to golf and community.
“Although I have to admit, I'm a big Kansas City Chiefs fan, so I'm not rooting for you totally.”
Leadership and Talent Development
9:49 to 14:00
Insights into Michael's leadership style and nurturing talent at Discovery.
“And so the golf course is really, you know, help sell the real estate for much higher premium pricing and much faster absorption.”
Childhood Influences on Leadership
14:00 to 16:46
Michael Meldman shares how his childhood experiences shaped his leadership style.
“And we're going to talk more about discovery in a bit.”
Lessons from Blackjack to Real Estate
16:46 to 19:35
Meldman discusses his transition from dealing blackjack to successful real estate ventures.
“You know, and as I understand it, after finishing college at Stanford, you went to be a blackjack dealer in Tahoe.”
Environmental Challenges in Development
19:35 to 22:24
Meldman reflects on overcoming environmental constraints in his development projects.
“What was your first discovery property and what was the biggest lesson you carried forward from that experience?”
Bakers Bay: Controversy and Community Engagement
22:24 to 26:00
Meldman describes the controversies faced during the Bakers Bay project and how he engaged with the community.
“And it's one of the famous, it's one of the two mountains there.”
Rebuilding After Hurricane Dorian
26:00 to 28:00
Meldman talks about his leadership during the aftermath of Hurricane Dorian and the rebuilding process.
“In fact, you've faced a lot of resistances first and people literally had T-shirts, I'm told, that said F Mike Meldman, you know.”
Rebuilding After the Hurricane
28:00 to 29:20
Learn about the challenges and achievements in rebuilding after a hurricane in the Bahamas.
“And it was a big fight with the Bahamian government because this hurricane didn't hit anywhere but us.”
Show all 27 chapters
The Birth of Casamigos Tequila
29:20 to 32:12
Discover the origins of Casamigos Tequila and the collaborative efforts behind it.
“But, you know, El Dorado is another one of your discovery properties.”
Strategic Decisions for Success
32:12 to 33:33
Explore the strategic decisions that contributed to the success of Casamigos Tequila.
“You know, looking back, what was the single best strategic decision you made that unlocked that kind of value?”
Building Trust with High-Profile Clients
33:33 to 36:34
Learn how to build trust and relationships with celebrities and high-profile clients.
“And, you know, how do you, and your communities are filled with those people.”
Evolving Leadership Styles
36:34 to 37:34
Understand how leadership evolves with business scale and team support.
“And so I think that is infectious and other people see it, and I truly lead by example.”
Golf as a Metaphor for Challenges
37:34 to 41:21
Explore how golf reflects on personal challenges and learning experiences.
“How has your leadership had to evolve as you've scaled?”
Lightning Round Questions
41:21 to 42:00
Enjoy a rapid-fire round of questions revealing personal insights and traits.
“which is this 180-yard shot, hit it in the air, blows three holes away, right?”
The Learning Mentality in Business
42:00 to 43:30
Discover how perseverance in golf mirrors business growth.
“Well, basically what you're saying with golf is you use the same learning mentality you've had as you've grown your business.”
Lightning Round of Questions
43:30 to 45:48
A fun and insightful lightning round revealing personal insights.
“But, you know, what's something about owning an NFL team that caught you by surprise?”
Expansion and Community Building
45:48 to 48:36
Learn about Michael's vision for expanding Discovery Land Company globally.
“You know, you got most places in Europe, it's hot.”
Advice for Aspiring Leaders
48:36 to 49:58
Understand the importance of patience and hard work in leadership.
“And Vegas is the hospitality capital of the world.”
Experience at Discovery Properties
49:58 to 51:08
Explore the unique culture and experience at Discovery properties.
“I know how, you know, just how much you have going on.”
The Value of Being Unique
51:08 to 54:06
Learn how to differentiate your brand and find your unique lane.
“And, you know, the camaraderie there is great.”
Brand Consistency and Success
54:06 to 56:00
Explore the principles of brand consistency through successful examples.
“And I think that's really, really his secret.”
Building a Unique Brand
56:00 to 56:57
Learn how Michael Meldman created a distinctive brand and the importance of consistency.
“And we were one of one And we offered, you know, great products at great price and great value that you couldn't get anywhere else.”
The Power of Loyalty
56:57 to 59:11
Explore the dual nature of loyalty in leadership and its impact on team dynamics.
“Well, I think, you know, getting back to what Michael's done so well, first of all, you have to define who you are.”
Identifying Talent
59:11 to 1:01:29
Understand the significance of recognizing talent and its role in business success.
“And, you know, there may be a point where that loyalty is not paid off.”
Closing Thoughts and Future Plans
1:01:29 to 1:02:24
Reflect on the importance of loyalty and excitement for upcoming experiences.
“And, you know, but he has an eye for talent.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00David Novak:Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead. Today, we've got a fun one. We've got Michael Meldman on the show. He is the founder and chairman of Discoveryland Company, the co-founder of Cosamigos Tequila, and part owner of the Las Vegas Raiders. Three things I love very much, golf, tequila, and football. In this episode, he and David are going to dive into some of the things that have made him such a successful brand builder. And at the end of the episode, David and I are going to break down some of those key learnings so that you walk away from this episode with something really tangible that you can apply to your leadership, to your life, and to your work.
0:38David Novak:You're also going to really love Michael's stories about creating a tequila brand with George Clooney. It's a lot of fun. I think you're going to love this episode. Here we go. What's your favorite George Clooney Casamiga story? I probably can't tell it.
0:58David Novak:You know, so Mike, here you are. You're the founder and chairman of Discoveryland Company, the co-founder of Casamigos Tequila, and part owner of the Las Vegas Raiders. And yet, what I'm curious to know is the story behind why you just overhauled your entire closet. Well, I overhauled my entire closet to change my wardrobe from Casamigos to the Raiders. As you can see, I'm a branding guy, so I'm always wearing a project shirt with either the Raiders or Casamigos. we just finally finalized our we had to earn out and buy out on Cosmigo so that part of my life is over we're going to start a vodka organic vodka company and a non-alcoholic beer so we're going to start leaning toward wellness and alcohol and non-alcohol and so it's kind of funny because my wardrobe, my Cosmigos wardrobe had a lot of pink in it.
2:10And when I started The Hills and redid and bought the Dune Deck in the Hamptons, I kind of wore pink as a joke because everyone on the East Coast is so preppy and I'm a West Coast guy. I'm a jeans, t-shirt, flip-flop type of guy. So I'd wear pink kind of as a you know, joke to the East Coast and preppy and preppies. And it stuck. It stuck with me for, you know, 10 years. And my whole wardrobe was pink. And now it's black and silver and white. So I don't know if it's an upgrade or not, but I don't know, you know, pink to black, man,
2:56David Novak:you got it. You got it. You can kick some even more ass. You know, I still like pink, but But I got to go with the silver and black. Well, speaking of the silver and black and the Raiders, what drew you into the NFL? I've always been a football fan. I played football as a kid. My older boys played football. Probably the highlight of my life was their high school football and lacrosse experience. And now I have a 12-year-old who's a very good football player. So, you know, we've always been into sports. We've always been into Bay Area sports because my older boys were born in the Bay Area. And so we're always, you know, basically Niner and Raider fans and Warrior fans and Giants fans.
3:46And so Mark Davis has been a friend of mine for a long time. And the opportunity came up. And so me and one of my partners decided to jump in. And as you know, Tom Brady was already part of the ownership team. And Tom and I are very close and go back for a long time. So we felt we put an ownership team together with Mark Davis that could really help build the business, grow the revenues. And our goal is to make the Raiders the number one franchise value in the world.
4:27David Novak:Well, you've certainly got an iconic franchise, and it'll be great to watch what you do to bring them back and get them back to where they rightfully deserve. Although I have to admit, I'm a big Kansas City Chiefs fan, so I'm not rooting for you totally. Look, I like all the teens, but obviously I have to root for the Raiders. But I'm a fan, and that's probably the biggest reason why I did it. And it was also great diversification for me and my family since we're very long on real estate. Well, speaking of real estate, you have built what I think is the greatest real estate brand in the world with Discovery.
5:05David Novak:And tell us all that Discovery is today. So the way I describe Discovery is it's a private resort community. Most people look at it like as just a golf community, but it's really a lifestyle community. and the irony of the whole concept of Discovery is when I started the company, I never golfed a day in my life and I was never a member of a country club. Wow. Yeah. And so when you go play one of my courses, there's a lot more on the golf course than golf. I blast rock and roll on the driving range. We have comfort stations so you could get food and treats. And I try to make it feel like you're a kid.
5:57You're a kid again, and you could get whatever you want and make you feel nostalgic about things you had as a kid by the type of candy we have and things like that. I just wanted to make golf fun for me. So I wanted things on the course that at least would make me happy because at the time, golf wasn't making me happy. You know, you're allowed to play in a t-shirt, playing shorts, no shirt, you know, whatever you feel comfortable. You know, I wasn't looking at being a disruptor. That was not my intent or even a thought. But I built my whole company around being with my family. And my kids at the time, Hunter and Will, were probably five and seven.
6:45and my first course I did was Estancia in Scottsdale, which I still think is one of the great classic golf courses. And I would try to get them to play golf and they would like go, okay. And I would sit there and try to put them in a collared shirt and they wouldn't want to wear a collared shirt. So we'd literally be sitting there in the pro shop, put on a collared shirt. I don't want to. And we were fighting. and I'm like going, well, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You know, we're here to have fun and to, you know, be together. And since I didn't grow up golfing, I was like, fine, don't wear a collared shirt.
7:27Let's go. And we went, you know, shorts and a T-shirt and played. And they didn't really play at that age. They just wanted to throw golf balls off tee boxes, which happened to be, in this case, at Estancia, like in these beautiful rock outcroppings. And so for them, the golf course was just a fun place for them. And the whole comfort station situation came out of that because I wanted to keep them on the golf course longer than throwing golf balls off one hole. and so I put those red red and white igloo coolers on each tee box so they'd go to a tee box throw the golf balls run to the next tee box grab a coke and a candy bar and probably do that for three or four holes and then they had a sugar rush and we're done and we're done but the point was I wanted to make golf fun for them.
8:28And that's where kind of the casualness and I don't want to say lack of rules because everyone says there's no rules at Discovery Club. There are. And it's basically, you know, respect.
8:39David Novak:Yeah. And having been, you know, blessed enough to be able to enjoy that experience, you tell it exactly the way it is. You go out there. I was a troubadour recently outside of Nashville, listen to the country music, which I love. You have the comfort stations. You can play a fivesome or a sixsome. You keep moving. You respect everybody that's there. But it's a hell of an experience and a different experience and one that makes golf truly fun. So you deliver it in spades. How does the business model work, Mike? You know, what the golfers want is they want to go out whenever they want to go out.
9:15They don't want to have to worry about tee times. And so we try to keep our projects low density and the membership count low, so you always have access to the course. And so the golf is always subsidized by us for until sellout. And then once it's sold out, we run it to break even. So we don't use the golf course to make money. We use it to sell the real estate, and that's where the money is in our business. And so the golf course is really, you know, help sell the real estate for much higher premium pricing and much faster absorption.
10:02David Novak:So when you think about Discovery, I think of it, you know, you describe yourself as a brand builder and you are, and Discovery is a tremendous brand. And what do you think, or if you could kind of summarize the principles that you've used at Discovery for other people that are wanting to build a brand, what do you think is key? There are a lot of things, especially for Discovery. But I'd say the key is consistency. You know, we always strive, you know, to be the best of the best wherever we are. So consistency is important, but also learning from every project and making the next project better is important.
10:53So we're always striving for excellence. We're always, I think we're always getting better. and one of the most rewarding things is that we have a whole group of individuals who started working for me right out of high school or right out of college and have never worked for anyone else. So their DNA is discovery. And so everyone just thrives to make it better and better. And it's really fun to see because they're really just perpetuating my vision and they're really good at it.
11:30David Novak:You know, I had a great time playing with Cy Anthony and J.J. Dudham and recently in a golf tournament, both of these guys worked for you. And I knew I had this podcast coming up and I said, what do you think it is that really distinguishes Mike as a leader? And he says, listen, this guy looks at somebody, sees somebody, and says, this is somebody we need to hire. They talked about your eye for talent. What do you, when you look at talent, what do you look for as that intangible or the it factor? Because that's what they said you had. You'd say, hey, look, I don't know what this guy's doing right now, but he needs to work for us someday.
12:09David Novak:And sooner or later, you end up landing that person. Yeah, well, we want to be kind of the employer of choice for anybody. And we get good people to begin with, and I see good people. because we have really, really good growth opportunities. Like we've had valets parking cars turn into operational leaders. And we've had outdoor pursuit people who were fishing guides turn into general managers of clubs or developers of one of our projects. So there's a lot of growth. I don't say it's necessarily eyeing talent, but I think it's really nurturing and help, you know, creating talent. Because what we do is so special and different than what anyone else does.
13:07You know, you can't learn this at the Four Seasons, you know, training schedule or meetings or training manual. And so it takes a lot of my time and a lot of personal energy to invest in these people. and JJ is probably one of the greatest examples of all time. I mean, JJ is a big golfer, fun on the golf course, just like Cy. I mean, they're kind of, you know, similar. And they've really, you know, Cy's been with me 10 years, JJ's been with me 20 years, and they've grown into, you know, people who have real stature and can, you know, can really articulate what Discovery is about. And J.J.'s J.J., right?
13:53I mean, J.J. just has a stature and personality all to himself, which people love. And so I think I just help nurture and energize people.
14:05David Novak:That's great. And we're going to talk more about discovery in a bit. But I'm curious, what's the story from your childhood, Mike, that shaped the kind of leader you are today? I grew up in Milwaukee. A very, you know, happy, middle-class lifestyle. I had two sisters, you know, uncles and aunts and cousins. We'd all go to, you know, grandma's and grandpa's house every Sunday for dinner. So it was, you know, a very kind of nice, traditional, you know, happy lifestyle. And my dad and my grandfather taught me, you know, integrity, character, to follow the rules and just be the best person you can.
14:52And probably the most meaningful story from my childhood that I remember is that my dad was our Little League coach. And we were playing, back then it was neighborhoods, right? We were playing our neighborhood team, and it happened to be the championship game for our softball. It was even before Little League. and there's this kid I remember who probably wasn't the best athlete or baseball player on the team. It was something like bases loaded. We were down by one. And my dad realized that Randy didn't get to play. So he substituted Randy in for whoever was batting who was probably a cleanup hitter or something because my dad said, we got to play by the rules.
15:44Everyone's got to play. Randy hasn't played. So he put them in. He struck out. We lost the championship. The other team was obviously celebrating. My dad came to us and said, look, we could hold our heads high. We did the right thing. We played by the rules. They didn't. They didn't play all their kids, but we did. So you kids are really the winners. And so, yeah, and that just stuck with me. I was always a good athlete and always, you know, in my peer group, the best athlete. And, you know, someone like missed a shot in basketball, I would like scream at him and yell at him. And I probably did that when I started playing pickleball recently, too.
16:29But that just kind of changed my perspective on everything, right? Just always do the right thing, be a good sport. Both my father and my grandfather were just, you know, two of the most well-grounded people I've, you know, I've ever met. You know, and as I understand it, after finishing college at Stanford, you went to be a blackjack dealer in Tahoe.
16:55David Novak:What did that experience teach you? Yeah, well, it taught me how to count to 21.
17:03So that was not a problem if you went to Stanford. Yeah, it wasn't really that big of a problem. But I went and dealt blackjack with three buddies of mine because I was supposed to go to law school, and I bombed the LSATs, so I didn't go to law school. And so my buddies who were going to Tahoe said, let's go. And I went, and, you know, we rented a cabin, like in Camp Richardson outside of South Lake, and we dealt at Harrah's, and our shift was like midnight to eight. So I met a guy at the blackjack table who asked me if I wanted to make as much money as I wanted and work as little as I wanted.
17:44And I'm like, yeah, who wouldn't? So he was starting a commercial real estate company in San Jose, California. I went and did that. And I had literally no training. He stuck me out in Fremont, said put up signs and meet the farmers. It was all farmland. So I spent the first year literally just putting up signs, meeting the farmers. And I did a bunch of deals. So I had a knack for making deals. So that was kind of the beginning of it.
18:16David Novak:And when you say knack for making deals, what does that mean? Well, my first year, I did about 60 deals. And I made a decent amount of money. Probably, you know, from my age and, you know, first year out of college, probably more than anyone, you know, any engineer, you know, anyone who had a real job. And I would lease like a commercially zoned house from some family in like Grass Valley, which is kind of a retirement community in Northern California, to a termite company. and I'd negotiate the lease and the termite, I'll never forget this, the termite company owner said, what's Estoppel? And I said, hold on.
19:05And we didn't have cell phones or anything back then. So I'd have to go find the phone, call my manager, ask him what Estoppel was. He would tell me, I'd explain it to the termite guy. He would say, okay, and sign the lease. I'd take the signed lease back to my office. And I still didn't know what Estoppel was. I was going to have to ask you to explain it to me I still don't know what it is but I was just able to I guess communicate make people feel comfortable and that I was honest and truthful
19:42David Novak:Hello friends, I hope you're loving this conversation with David and Michael Meldman be sure you stay tuned to the debrief David and I are going to give you some practical takeaways based on the conversation that he's having with Mike So stay tuned to the very end of the episode and don't miss the debrief. What was your first discovery property and what was the biggest lesson you carried forward from that experience? Well, the first discovery property was Estancia. And that's a golf course community in Arizona. And so before I got into Estancia, I spent probably maybe 18 years processing a property in Portola Valley, California, which is right outside of Stanford and right where I live.
20:34So it was great, right? I was doing this big project in my backyard. and what I didn't know is the property, we bought it from a Saudi prince. The property had every environmental constraint you could ever imagine. The San Andreas Fault ran through it. It had a big hillside that had a lot of mudslides mapped. It had, you know, fauna and flora going through it that was sacred. And so all the people were fighting me because everyone fights developers. And so the people fighting me were educated because the people fighting me on the biology were biology professors at Stanford. And even my friends wouldn't support me because they're like, no.
21:21They're like, you're ruining the environment. I go, we're not. And so it literally taught me how to develop through the environment, right? And so, you know, like putting the roads along the contours of the topography. Well, it makes sense because you're not grading. You're just placing them down where they naturally belong. You're not mass grading the site and then spending all this money on landscaping. And so it taught me to keep the vegetation, to keep the site as natural as you can and just incorporate the buildings into the nature. And so that's kind of what I did. And so I basically got a PhD in, you know, planning, you know, environmental planning by spending 18 years doing that.
22:17And so when I went to Arizona to do Estancia, it was, there's a landmark called Pinnacle Peak in Scottsdale. And it's one of the famous, it's one of the two mountains there. And there's Pinnacle Peak restaurant and they do shootouts and robberies. and, you know, cowboy Western stuff there. It was zoned for 900 units or a resort like the Phoenician. The Phoenician was on Camelback Mountain. It just opened. It was beautiful, and everyone loved it. However, the owner and developer of the resort got arrested and went to jail. It was part of the SNL crisis back then. So when they told me I could put a Phoenician on the property and use True North as the golf course, I didn't quite think it was a good idea because I go, the last guy who did it ended up in jail.
23:19So I don't want to really pursue that route. So it had a density credit of like taking the 2 ,000 hotel rooms that would have completely desecrated the site. It had a density transferred to 900 residential units. And 900 residential units would have ruined the site. And this was probably one of the most beautiful sites in Arizona. It had Pinnacle Peak. It had rock outcroppings. It had beautiful trees and vegetation. So what we did is I got Tom Fazio, and this is how I met Fazio. And the reason I called Tom, and you got to remember I didn't golf at this time, know anything about golf or country clubs, is because all the most expensive golf clubs in the West were Tom Fazio courses.
24:10There's the Vintage Club, which is kind of the granddaddy of them all. There is the Quarry, and there's Maroon Creek. And so they were the most expensive memberships on the West Coast. So I said, well, sounds like Tom Fazio's our guy. called Tom, hired him, and we built the course right, I don't think, I think we moved less than 300 ,000 cubic yards of dirt, which a lot of it was all on one hole, just building a hole up with rocks. So it's a pretty natural, natural site, and it's beautiful. But I wouldn't have known how to do that without the Bartola Valley experience. And, you know, what we did is we'd box up the trees and move them, put in the golf, and then we'd re-veg, you know, take those trees and replant them.
25:05And so when we opened the golf course, it looked like it's been there for a thousand years. And you could barely see the roads because they were landscaped and going against the contours. So the 18 years of hell in Porto Valley ended up being something that really I leaned on and taught me. And I was able to go to these places and work with these environmentalists because I was always reducing density instead of looking for more. And the project ended up instead of with 900 units with 253 units.
25:43David Novak:So, and you had this perception of being the developer that, you know, not you yourself, but the industry, you come in, rate the land, take advantage of things, whatever, you know, but you do exactly the opposite of that. And, you know, I know when you went into Bakers Bay in the Bahamas, it was very controversial. In fact, you've faced a lot of resistances first and people literally had T-shirts, I'm told, that said F Mike Meldman, you know. So how did you go about winning the community over? Well, see, whenever there's people against us, it always seems like it's a big community that's fighting us.
26:25But it never really is. It's literally, in this case, it might have been five people. And they're just, you know, they just, not that they screamed the loudest, but, you know, that's who people want to listen to. so here we are we just had the 20th anniversary of baker's bay the race didn't die their health their healthiest can be and we suffered a hurricane about five or seven years ago called dorian and dorian destroyed baker's bay and it destroyed the rest of the island it destroyed the the neighboring islands and the neighboring islands are where our employees lived you know also on our island.
27:09And so everything got destroyed. I mean, it was horrific. I mean, when I heard about the news, it literally knocked me to the ground. I mean, I just went down, sat, you know, to my knees and sat on the ground and, you know, took a few breaths. I mean, it really knocked, you know, it was like being punched in the stomach. And so, you know, I knew that I had to be the leader. And I knew, you know, I had to put on a brave face. And so what I did is I started communicating with the membership every day. I would send out an email to everyone daily for probably 60 days until everything calmed down a bit, just telling them what's going on on the island, who we had there, what we're doing.
27:58and we actually rebuilt it. And it was a big fight with the Bahamian government because this hurricane didn't hit anywhere but us. And so when I went to Nassau to meet with the prime minister and the cabinet, they didn't, I mean, the prime minister was actually great and really helpful, but he wanted me there to show you the lack of support he was getting from the rest of the cabinet because they're all from NASA. It didn't even rain in NASA. And so I had to convince him that we had to build 20 years of construction in two months. And then they finally let us, they relieved us from that. They let us bring in foreign labor.
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28:50We brought up a whole bunch of our crew from Mexico to rebuild it. We brought in ships for them to live on. And we actually rebuilt it in two years, which was phenomenal and great. And for a lot of the members took employees in. And even to this day, our foundation is building houses in Marsh Harbor for, you know, who lost their homes in the hurricane.
29:21David Novak:Oh, that is so great. But, you know, El Dorado is another one of your discovery properties. And I think that's where Casamigos was, tequila was born. What's the story of you, George Clooney, and Randy Gerber, who's Cindy Crawford's husband? How did you guys come up with that idea? How did that happen? So we lived together at my house. They were about three, four lots down. And they built a big compound with two houses. and they called the house Casamigos so we were a lot younger in those days and we were drinking a lot more and we were drinking like Clos de Azul we liked that and we thought it was a little sweet and we were drinking 1942 we thought it was a little bitter and we go I think we can come up with something better and so we came up with this tequila that was, if you do a side-by-side analysis, we always win.
30:21Because like 42 is a great tequila, but it's bitter. But you don't know how bitter it is unless you taste it compared to Casamigos. And Clos de Azillo is a great tequila because, you know, we're drinking both, but it's a little sweet. And if you drink it next to Casamigos, it's real sweet. So we kind of tried to find something right in between. And we didn't really do it to sell it. we did it for ourselves. We figured we'd sell a lot at Discovery Properties. We'd sell a lot at Randy's bars. And we felt George would just drink a lot. So, you know, so we'd be good. And so everybody just liked it so much.
31:02We went to Southern Wine and Spirits and we said, can we, you know, will you take this for us? And they tried the Repo and they go, yeah, we love it. It's great. we want it but you need a blanco and i remember saying well we drink the repo we don't drink a blanco and um larry ruvo from southern wine spirits goes well 85 percent of the markets blanco i go well we'll do a blanco then and we launched and we said we said to him at the launch We go, so how many, what would be a good year? And they go, if you could do 24 ,000 cases your first year, you'll be a huge success. So we made 24 ,000 cases.
31:49George, Randy, and I each were third of third of third partners. It cost us$1.8 million, which is$600 ,000 each, and sold out that first, actually first two days. And we never had to put another dime in it. and we sold it for a billion dollars in four years.
32:12David Novak:That's a nice story. You know, looking back, what was the single best strategic decision you made that unlocked that kind of value? I mean, that's— Well, first of all, the three of us had completely different talents. So it was, you know, three good friends, you know, hanging out together, which as you get older, you don't see your friends as much. So that was fun. But the real reason Cosmigos did well was because it was good tequila. So if it wasn't good tequila, it wouldn't matter who was behind it. And so the story, kind of the organic story behind it, how three friends went and did it, was a good story.
32:55And it followed up with being a good tequila. And so we knew we had a winner before we launched because we sampled it with so many people and had parties. We had a, which became famous, big Halloween parties at my house and served it and everyone loved it. So you could tell we had a pretty good sample audience. And there's no doubt it wouldn't work in our minds.
33:24David Novak:I have to ask you, I guess, what's your favorite George Clooney, Casamiga story?
33:33I probably can't tell it
33:38David Novak:all right you know but you hang with all these CEOs celebrities uh athletes you know and and and people can be guarded I mean you know it's just there's no question about that especially when you're of that ilk how do you how do you break through the wall and earn trust with with with people who are naturally guarded. And, you know, how do you, and your communities are filled with those people. Yeah, well, like with George, we're friends. And so like in Casamigos, like Randy and I didn't ever think it was a celebrity tequila. You know, we thought it was our tequila, me, George, and Randy's, who were just friends doing something.
34:20Now, fortunately, George is a big celebrity. So him wearing, you know, His attitude was, well, if the paparazzi is going to follow me, I'm going to wear a Cosmigos t-shirt and they're going to photograph me in that, which was obviously a big help. At Discovery, I think I'm lucky because I get people mostly on their good days, because if they're not happy at their Discovery property, they probably wouldn't have bought at Discovery because they're probably not the type of person who could relax and have fun. And I think one great thing about discovery is people who are, you know, A-type personalities, who work really hard, who build their businesses, who are, you know, they usually have one regret.
35:11And that one regret is they haven't spent enough time with their family. And so Discovery gives them that time with their family because no matter who you are and where your kids are located, let's say you have a house in El Dorado, it's almost certain that everyone in your family is going to show up for Christmas in El Dorado. So it's a good gathering point, and it's a good way for people, you know, who spend time, you know, working away from their family to be with their family.
35:45David Novak:You know, for you personally, you know, and you look at your own leadership and you're at the top of your game. Everything just keeps moving in the right direction. What are some of the things that you may be doing to level up your own leadership? How are you trying to sharpen your own acts right now? Like I said, I learn from every project because, you know, we're not just the developer. We're the brand. You know, we're the, we design them, we operate them, we do every aspect of it. So I'm always learning. I've never, ever, like, gotten complacent on anything. We're always, you know, pushing ourselves to be, you know, to be better.
36:34And so I think that is infectious and other people see it, and I truly lead by example. I never really consider myself and thought about myself as a great leader. I just think of myself as someone doing what I love, continuing to do what I love, and having good people with me steering the ship in the right direction. And we go to these new communities or countries or, you know, regions of the world. And so it keeps my interest, right? When you go to Dubai and meet new people or you go to Tuscany or Portugal. And, you know, there's great people around the world. And so it keeps me truly, you know, motivated just to get, keep going and getting better and better.
37:30David Novak:You know, you've grown so much. You have so many properties now. How has your leadership had to evolve as you've scaled? Or do you think you're basically the same guy doing it just on a bigger level? Well, I'm pretty much the same guy doing it on a different level. I think I've evolved a lot over the last, you know, the last 30 years, which I'm proud of. But I've also brought in a great executive team. It's funny because when I started out in real estate, I was at that startup company. And then I ended up going to Cushman and Wakefield. And Cushman-Wakefield was the gold standard back then, and it still is today.
38:11So Brett, who's Brett White, who is our CEO who came from CBR and Cushman-Wakefield, you know, has made my life so much easier and better. And a lot of, I don't consider myself a control freak. Like a lot, and I don't really think I am, but I am in a lot of, a lot of details. And I mean, Brett's taking so much off my plate. I remember one of my financial partners going, okay, what's the over under on Brett? You know, 60 days before you get rid of him because you can't not stand him, but just can't stand the fact that, you know, you're giving up so much control to one person. And I go, it's the best thing ever happened to me.
38:56You know, there's no over under here. It's just over. And, you know, keep bread as long as we can.
39:03David Novak:Yeah, that's great. You know, and you and I both share something in common. We both love golf. And I understand you didn't really start playing golf until you were in your 50s. You know, what does that journey show about the way you take on challenges? Because there's no game that's more challenging than golf. Yeah, and there's the people who've been around me since I started, like at the beginning. they never ever thought I'd make it to where I am today. I mean, I was the worst golfer ever. And I'm an athletic guy and I'm strong and I just tried to muscle it, which isn't obviously the way to go.
39:43And I also had so many different teachers because anywhere I'd go, whether you're an assistant pro, pro, director of golf, they wanted to be the guy to give me the one tip that made me a good golfer. And I always said I'm too cerebral and muscle-bound for the game because I actually listen to people and understand things most of the time. And so everyone would give me different thoughts. I'd have so many thoughts going through my head all the time that I couldn't do anything. And then I finally started working with Hank Haney back when he did the Charles Barkley thing. And everyone would come up to him, who's the worst golfer you ever taught and everyone's expecting him say charles barkland and he'd go mike melvin for sure not not even close and then you know hank helped me and then as you know i went to matt killen who's not only a great teacher a great coach a great person a great friend to both of us um and he's he taught me not just how to like hit a golf ball but he taught me how to play golf which is a lot different and next week I'm heading to Scotland for the the Dunhill Cup and I'll play with like you know scratch golfers or plus two and I'm a you know fairly solid nine and so he'll you know the guy will will be 180 yards away he'll take you know, the scratch golfer will take a six iron, which is this 180-yard shot, hit it in the air, blows three holes away, right?
41:27Because of the Scottish wind, the Scottish winds and weather. And I take a finesse five, you know, five rescue club right down the middle to the middle of the green, you know, low, straight, and there. And so he taught me, and I'm sure he did this with you, not just how to hit a golf ball, but how to actually strategically play the game.
41:53David Novak:It sounds like you're doing it better than me. I needed a little bit more of that. I probably hog killing too much. Well, basically what you're saying with golf is you use the same learning mentality you've had as you've grown your business. Yeah, you've got to be disciplined. You've got to be patient. and you got to be persistent. But if you found people in the early days when I started, no one thought I'd continue with the game. And they asked me, how did you keep playing? And I go, well, I see all these big old fat people hitting the ball good. Why can't I?
42:37David Novak:Mike, this has been so much fun, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? Sure. What three words best describe you? Intuitive. We talked about patience and persistence. We talked about this too, loyalty, loyal, being loyal. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Thomas Jefferson. Who would play you in a movie? George Clooney.
43:03David Novak:Or Adam Sandler. Good combo. So you're routing a three-day trip with friends across multiple discovery properties. Where are you going and what essential activities are on the itinerary? I'd probably go skiing at Yellowstone, golfing at El Dorado, and I'd be going surfing, golfing, Padel, and hanging out at Costa Terra, which is in Portugal. I've heard that place is amazing. Well, they're all amazing. But, you know, what's something about owning an NFL team that caught you by surprise? Something that you didn't expect. So I love football. I love going to games with my kids. Now, as an owner, and I'm part of the active ownership group, it's taken the fun out of the game, and it's so stressful.
44:01David Novak:I love it. What's the one thing you do just for you? Most relaxing time I have is, well, now Sundays I go to all the games. But, you know, laying on my— It's no longer relaxing. Yeah. But when I'm home watching football and not being at a Raider game, you know, I have five TVs in my main room, laying on the couch with my sons and just watching football. Besides your family, what's your most prized possession? Probably just the brand of discovery and what it means and what it means to people. And not just the members, but also the employees. Because we've changed a lot of employees' lives. And our members treat the employees like they're family.
44:48And the employees feel like they're family. So I think that's something I'm as proud of as anything.
44:57David Novak:If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Grateful Dead, classic rock. That's why you look better in the black than the pink. Exactly. I can't believe I have a pink sweater on today. I was totally unintentional. This is almost black, but it's close. You're out of the light around here. I just have a few more questions. I'll let you go. Mike, as you look ahead, what do you see as your unfinished business? Well, we're going to different regions of the world. So we're in Europe now, which I love. Like we talked a little bit about Portugal. It's one of my favorite places. The country's great.
45:30It's safe. People are educated. The work ethic's great. I mean, it's an amazing country. And we're on the beach. We have different, you know, we have beginning, intermediate, advanced waves. I mean, they're just, the weather's perfect in the summer. You know, you got most places in Europe, it's hot. And our golf course feels like it's air conditioned because you have the Atlantic breeze coming through all the time. The fish is great. The food is, I mean, it's just great. I love it. And I probably spend six weeks there in a row, which I don't spend anywhere else six weeks in a row. And so it's fun.
46:11So conquering Europe, and now we're in Scotland, and we're in Tuscany, and we're soon to hopefully be in Spain. and then we're starting going big in the Middle East. And so I really like it when we go to areas and we're the one of one, right? Like you go to Las Vegas and we did the summit. Well, there's 100 golf courses at the summit and everyone said, your pricing won't work. This whole thing won't work. And I knew it would because I had a lot of friends in Las Vegas who lived in these beautiful houses and had beautiful views of a golf course, of the strip, but nobody was part of their community.
46:59So we built a community that had everything to draw those type of people and they all moved into it. So now you really have a community where everyone else used to live just in their house on a lot and not being part of the community. I like doing that. And you go to, like, Dubai. We're opening our course in November. Well, Dubai's got 11, maybe 8 to 11 million people circling through there. A lot of people live there. They have 10 golf courses. And they're not good golf courses. And, you know, once we open and they understand what a private, you know, real private golf course is, they're going to go crazy because, you know, there are shotguns, there are rounds.
47:54You can't even get on a course. And even if it's a private course, they still let the public on. So it's just private by word, but not by definition by any means. So it's kind of, I like going to places where we're one of one, introducing the concept to, like in Dubai, I think we're being every Middle Eastern country. And I think Discovery Dunes, which is the name of the project in Dubai, is going to change luxury real estate in Dubai, which is the luxury real estate capital, just like the summit changed hospitality in Vegas. And Vegas is the hospitality capital of the world. So, you know, we set our sights high and we do it.
48:43And, you know, that keeps me going.
48:47David Novak:Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? I always say patience. It's probably my main word. I tell my kids that. I tell younger kids because everyone wants instant success. And it doesn't work that way, as you know. It takes hard work. It takes, if you're an entrepreneur, it takes vision and dedication to the vision. You can't be afraid to fail. You've got to just, you know, really stick to, you know, your goals and your objectives. And people seem to want too much instant gratification, right? I want to become an AI billionaire, right? Well, you got to go do something to become an AI billionaire.
49:33It just doesn't happen. And so I tell my kids that a lot. I tell my young guys in the office, be patient. You know, you got to be patient. You're, you're, you know, you're not who you think you are right now, but you're going to be that person. So just, you know, keep your head down, work hard, have fun and execute.
49:57David Novak:Well, Mike, I have to tell you, I really enjoyed this conversation. I know how, you know, just how much you have going on. You just talked about you're gone all the time. And the fact that you carve out this time with me really means a lot. And I appreciate it. I was really looking forward to this podcast because I wanted to get to know you better. And it's so, so clear to me why you've been so successful and why you will conquer the world. Well, thanks. You're a good man. I was excited to do this as well.
50:31David Novak:Okay, David, you've played some of the Discoveryland courses. I mean, when you think about the brand experience beyond just the golf on these golf courses, I mean, is it really like what Michael says in the interview? The comfort stations with all the snacks. You wear whatever you want. It's about more than golf. What's it like? I think Michael actually understated it. I mean, the discovery properties are incredible. I was at Troubadour. I played golf there with my good buddy, Jimmy Kirchdorfer, and Matt Killen, who's the golf instructor for Michael. And, you know, it's just so much fun. I mean, you know, people are laid back.
51:05David Novak:You got the music. There can be eight people playing. But if you've got two, they'll let you through and everybody talks. And, you know, the camaraderie there is great. The comfort stations are fantastic. You can go in there and get ice cream. You know, you can get some tequila. You know, it's your choice. I mean, it's great, but it's so, so different. And, you know, I played with Justin Thomas. And, you know, Justin's out there in his shorts and, you know, in T-shirt. And we're listening to, you know, Eric Church. I mean, you know, it just doesn't get any better than this. I mean, it's just a lot of fun.
51:40David Novak:Now, you know, it's not the traditional golf. But, boy, I think it's what everybody loves about golf. It's friendship. It's fun. It's just really cool. I love the story that he told about how, you know, when he made the decision to not have a traditional golf dress code on his golf courses, because when he tried to get his kids to go play golf, they didn't want to wear collared shirts. And he says, isn't the point of this to have fun and be with each other? Like, if you don't want to wear a collared shirt, screw it. You don't have to. You know, isn't that what entrepreneurs do? You know, they just watch consumer behavior.
52:14David Novak:They see what people go through and they're empathetic to it. And they say, why? You know, we can do better. And I think that's what Michael has done with his discovery properties. It's, you know, everyone is unique in the community. There's nothing like it. He's doing it all around the world and he's doing it successfully all around the world because people like to be a part of something that's unlike anything else and just really breaks the code for what you'd expect in terms of where you can live and where you can hang. And that's what he's doing. I love it. Well, I can't wait to to go to the Discoverylands property, the one he was talking about in Portugal, because it sounds amazing.
52:53David Novak:And I'd love an excuse to go play golf in Portugal. So that's on my list for 2026. Well, you do live in Nashville, so maybe you could go to Troubadour and play there. I'm trying to go abroad. I'm trying to go abroad. Okay. Okay. In Kula Callahan fashion, you're going big. I love it. That is exactly right. That is exactly right. David, you said something a couple of minutes ago that struck me, and it's really one of the themes that Michael talks about in this episode, you know, a big piece of his strategy is to be one of one in their category. And, you know, that sounds great for someone like Michael, and he's done that really well.
53:28David Novak:But if there's someone listening who's really trying to figure out and define what their lane is, where should they start? Well, figure out what your lane is. Figure out where you really want to be and then getting that lane and then do everything you can to differentiate yourself so that no one is like you. But you're not just different for different sake. You're different for good reason. You're different because you understand the customer better than anybody else. And you tailor what you have to offer in such a unique way. People go, man, this is so different, so right on. I just want to be a part of it.
54:08David Novak:I want to be part of who I am. And so their brand becomes that brand. And I think that's really, really his secret. I mean, you know, people who are discovery property homeowners, all you have to do is talk to them. They are, you know, they are raving fans. Yeah, they're obsessed. They love it. Is there any risk, David, to choosing your lane and deciding what your one of one is? And is there risk to determining that? Like, what if it goes wrong? What do you do? Well, I think things can go wrong. But the biggest thing you need to do is to follow your instincts, follow your guts, and find out if you're right.
54:55David Novak:Don't worry about going wrong. If you go wrong, you can always adjust. But try to make it right and see what happens. And then, like anything else, you're going to get learning and you'll figure out how to modify it and shift and pivot and all those kind of buzzwords. You know, you do that. But the biggest thing you can do, though, is to really find out where you really want to be, differentiate yourself as best you can, and see if it works. Do you have a story from your time at Yum, David, where you feel like you really nailed it in the becoming one of one? Well, I think Taco Bell is one of one.
55:34You know, Taco Bell is, you know, the only national
55:37David Novak:quick service restaurant that offers Taco Bell food. I mean, Taco Bell isn't Mexican food. Taco Bell is Taco Bell. That's what's really beautiful. And everybody thinks, you know, it's like, you know, Kleenex owned the category, right? Kleenex was Kleenex. I mean, there was nobody but Kleenex. I mean, that's basically it. Anybody else is just kind of ripping them off. You know, Taco Bell is the category and there's no such thing as Taco Bell. And we were one of one And we offered, you know, great products at great price and great value that you couldn't get anywhere else. And we positioned the brand as hip, cool, and irreverent.
56:15David Novak:And it's had leading same-store sales growth for years and years in the category. Building brands is something that Michael is certainly very gifted at. I mean, he talks in the episode about how he and a couple of friends, including George Clooney, created Casamigos, the tequila brand. And, you know, with a couple of buddies, they had a goal of selling 24 ,000 cases in the first year. And then they blew that out of the water and ended up selling the brand for a billion dollars. So this guy knows how to build a brand and create momentum around it. And one of the things that he knows is so important is consistency as part of brand building.
56:49David Novak:And you and I both know that's probably easier said than done. And in your experience, David, where can leaders or marketers or brand builders go wrong when it comes to keeping their brand consistent? Well, I think, you know, getting back to what Michael's done so well, first of all, you have to define who you are. Make it clear to everybody about who you are and this is what you stand for. And then stay true to it. Anything that gets outside of that, you just don't do. But that takes real rigor. That takes real discipline. And that takes real clarity about what you really stand for. But I guarantee you, people who work at Discovery Properties know what they stand for.
57:30David Novak:And they know what isn't them. You know, there's one exercise, you know, that always worked very well for us when we were like really trying to define our brands. And we'd write down what we are and what we are not. And, you know, I think that's really, really helpful. It sounds so simple. And yet you can kind of tell when people don't do it because it's like a junk drawer. They're trying to be everything to everybody. And those are the brands that really don't take off. Well, you know, I think, you know, brands are like people. You know, I think as a person, you need to be thinking of yourself as a brand.
58:11David Novak:You know, what do you really stand for? How can you be consistent with what you stand for? How many people do you really admire and respect that are all over the map? and don't really stand for something. You know, not many. So, you know, I think it really behooves everybody to not only think about brand building for their products and companies that they might work for, but also for themselves. You know, what brand do you want to be? You know, how do you want to have people see you? And then how do you really drive that home in everything that you do? The theme of consistency, David, brings up another kind of key point that I heard a lot in the episode that Mike talked about, and that's loyalty.
58:52David Novak:He says that loyalty is his best quality. He also says that loyalty is sometimes his worst quality. So I'm curious what your take on loyalty and leadership is, especially when and if it could be holding you back in some way. I'd much rather be air on the side of being loyal to my people. And, you know, there may be a point where that loyalty is not paid off. but I think 99.9 % of the time you're rewarded for, for, for loyalty. And sometimes maybe you take a little bit longer to, to give people a second chance that maybe you could have moved a little bit quicker, but Hey, that's a mistake that, you know, I can live with versus being disloyal.
59:41David Novak:You know, it's almost like recognition. I mean, you know, people would say to me, David, As you know, I loved recognizing people. And people say, can you recognize people too much? Or have you ever recognized the wrong people at the wrong time? And I'm sure the answer is yes. But I don't care. I'd much rather err on the side of recognizing people and making a mistake now and then than not doing it. And I'm sure I've made mistakes in that realm. But, you know, recognition overall is something that I believe is extremely powerful. So if I got to err on one side or another, I'd rather do more of it than less.
1:00:22David Novak:And so I'd much rather be loyal than disloyal. I'd much rather, you know, err on the side of being too loyal than not loyal. Well, and I think of another concept you talk about a lot, David, which is the importance of having truth tellers and being a truth teller. So, you know, I think another part of that being too loyal is if you are too loyal and it ends up putting you in a bad spot, having the humility to admit that you were wrong about something and that you made a mistake. You know, I know a lot of people that work at Discovery and they sing Michael's praises because he believes in them.
1:00:59David Novak:He sees in them many times what they don't see in themselves well before they realize they have those capabilities. And I think that's because he rounds up on talent. You know, I had someone that worked for him say that he was so good at identifying people that he just might see. He might see somebody in a supermarket. He'd look at that kid and he'd say, that person needs to work at Discovery Property someday. Keep an eye on him. OK. And you know what? That guy might show up at Discovery. And, you know, but he has an eye for talent. And I think, you know, when you're in the hospitality business, if you don't have talent, you don't have anything.
1:01:39David Novak:That is so true. That's true for almost any business. I'd say true for any business. Well, you can tell that Mike's a guy who is deeply loyal to his people. And because of that, they're able to grow and have properties all over the world and just continue to provide that one-of-one experience for people almost in every part of the globe. So I can't wait to go to Portugal. I can't either. I'm looking forward to myself. Are you trying to go to Portugal too? Where are you trying to go? What Discoveryland property? I want to check it out. I've had some friends go there and they tell me it's amazing.
1:02:13David Novak:So yeah, I'd like to do it. I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. Well, David, another fantastic episode of How Leaders Lead. Thank you all so much for joining and we will see you again next week.
From the publisher
How do you make your brand stand out?
Ask Michael Meldman. He’s the founder of Discovery Land Company, a global portfolio of high-end private golf communities known for doing things differently. By tossing out the traditional country club rulebook and building around comfort and community, he’s created a truly distinctive brand.
He’s also a co-founder of Casamigos Tequila, the billion-dollar brand he built with George Clooney.
In this episode, he shares how he builds brands that deliver exactly what the market wants and needs. If you want to create something unique or stand out in your category, don’t miss this one.
You’ll also learn:
What most leaders get wrong about brand experience
The key to attracting great talent
How to sell your product’s emotional benefits (not just its features)
Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:
The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go
Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day
Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.
