#269: Damola Adamolekun, CEO, Red Lobster – Show the path to success

19:48So for me, it's about recognizing that and accentuating your strengths and shoring up your weaknesses. So for me, I had a ton of experience at the restaurants. I had a ton of experience at the headquarters. I had a great COO. So I had experience around me. So long as you're willing to listen to that, that can become your own experience, right? So long as you're willing to engage with these people. So I never felt like there wasn't information. You know, if I didn't have it myself, it was around me. And so my job was to align the team, build a strategy, motivate people, get things moving, empower the right people, promote the right people.

20:20And so long as I was able to do that, we built a great team and we're able to move the business forward.

20:25David Novak:You know, when you're the CEO, the job doesn't care how old you are. You own the results. What's a moment early on that made you feel the full weight of that responsibility? Yeah, I mean, I knew the responsibility from the beginning. I spend a lot of time in the restaurants. You see a lot of people's livelihoods are dependent on making successful decisions at headquarters. So you understand the scale of it. I did at least from the beginning. With pressure in general, if you're too worried about the pressure, it takes away clear thinking because you become stressed. So you can't, I think maybe a benefit of playing sports, you can recognize pressure and not let it affect your day-to-day or your mentality.

21:04right? You don't want pressure to force you into a mental corner where you're making bad decisions because you're freaking out about the stakes. You need to make decisions calmly, regardless of the stakes. So I recognized it, but I wouldn't say that. I tried just to make clear, common sense decisions, think through what we knew, what we didn't know, get information, use data, and just execute as well as we could, regardless of the stakes.

21:30David Novak:You know, almost every leader who's on of fast track will tell you one of the most difficult challenges they have is to learn how to manage people that are older and more experienced than they are. You know, what kind of coaching can you give people on how to do that? Because you've obviously been able to navigate it. Yeah, look, I'd say that people have followed young leaders since the beginning of time. It's not like a new thing. You know, Alexander was 28. Julius Caesar was young when he was a leader. Like, there's been young leaders, and people are fine with it if they respect the person. So a lot of it is about, do they respect the person?

22:05If a person's young, but they feel like is capable, intelligent, makes good decisions, has good judgment, they will follow, right? Because they respect the person. So a lot of leadership, no matter your age, is self-improvement. It's becoming the best version of yourself so that people are willing to follow you is number one. And then number two, I'd say, if you're defensive, people feel that and they wonder why you're not confident in yourself. it sort of betrays that you might be lacking, right? Because they wonder, if you don't trust yourself, why should they trust you? So defensiveness or blatant self-doubt will make it harder for people to follow you.

22:44So you need to sort of develop confidence. The final thing I'd say is include people and empower people. If you come in and you're young and you don't have a ton of experience, but you're listening to people, you're including people, you're incorporating people, They feel heard. They feel like they're helping shape the direction. It's a lot easier to lead that way. And you still own the decisions, you know, and so you have to, but you're confident that you own the decisions. So you're not afraid to be debated or to debate or listen to people. So you engage, you incorporate them, and ultimately you take the decision because that is your role.

23:19David Novak:You know, is there one mindset or habit that you have that you really think helped you rise above all the noise of age? I mean, you just gave some great coaching there. But if you had to look at yourself and you said, OK, what's the one thing you did to really demonstrate to people that you were you you may not be the oldest guy in the room, but you were the right guy to be able to lead the company? Yeah, look, I'd say that, um, number one, I never felt like I was the right guy. I did it out of necessity. The business was failing. It was it was middle of covid. The restaurants were shut down. It was my deal and somebody had to go save it.

23:58And I was best positioned to do that. Right. So I went in there not out of some like I'm here to save the day because I'm anointed by God, but it needs to be done. And I'm the only one that can kind of do it right now. So I'll come in here and we'll get it done. So, you know, that was my perspective. And so I think because of that, I wasn't coming in to like have people worship me. I came in and put, you know, put the hard hat on and we're in the trenches right from day one. So, you know, I was in the trenches with the team. We're trying to survive. We're trying to make decisions quickly. So there wasn't there was never a moment where I had to, like, convince people.

24:30I just came in and people were ready to go to work. And they knew me, to be fair. I'd spent a year there almost every week. So they knew I was, you know, a serious person and a capable person. But but at the same time, it wasn't there wasn't a lot of time. So it was, you know, you get in, you roll up your sleeves, you go and, you know, people get on board. And if they don't, then, you know, you have you have to just address that, too. right? Like there's not a lot of time to have people not following you, but it's easier when people want to follow you. So coming in and incorporating people is the best way to do that.

25:03David Novak:And you were CEO of PF Chang for almost five years. You had excellent success there. How'd you find your way to Red Lobster? What was that process? I wanted a more difficult challenge. I found it the hardest one possible is what it ends up being. That's what everybody's told me when I say I'm interviewing you today. Who would even take that job? Yeah, it's exactly. No, it's a difficult challenge. And I'm not, I don't want to understate the difficulty that the company was in when we took over. But, you know, for me, after the success of PF Chang's, you know, I went back on the investing side and, you know, was approached by the folks who owned Red Lobster.

25:45And, you know, What I saw was a company that was in worse situation than Chang's, for sure. It was in bankruptcy. Sales had tumbled during the bankruptcy. Lease issues from the sale lease back, some bad stores, et cetera. You've been here. Everything you can imagine on the negative side. But it had a couple of positives, right? It had a brand that people loved that was iconic, that had a ton of history. It had a followership that wanted to see the company succeed. and I thought it could be an opportunity to do something, you know, incredible and save this company that's mattered so much for so many people.

26:22You know, when I took the job, I wasn't under the impression that it'd be easy and it hasn't been, but we've made a lot of progress and we'll try our best to make this a successful outcome.

26:31David Novak:Did the fact that a lot of people see Red Lobster as a dinosaur, did that just really motivate you and want to take the job even more? No, not more or less. I'd say that, look, there's a lot to be done to improve the guest experience when you're starting in a place where not much has been done recently. So there was a lot of opportunity to be better and a lot of low-hanging fruit to improve the guest experience, for sure. Because there hadn't been a lot of emphasis placed on that by the people who owned this company before us. that's an opportunity. But at the same time, that's, you know, it's a challenge because of how much there is to do, right?

27:14And where do you invest your time and where do you start and how do you organize the sequence of things that need to be done, right? So yeah, it's a, you know, blessing and a curse in a way, but we've been able to kind of chip away at it and make some improvements and we'll keep doing that. And yeah, you have to, you know, figure out where you're

27:31David Novak:going to spend your time. And, you know, the problem with a lot of leaders when they get in turnaround situations, there's a temptation to try to fix everything at once. You know, what's been your approach to how to prioritize what you can actually do and execute? Yeah, look, I mean, I'd start with the guest experience. You know, as you know, you come from Young, which is a place that has done a tremendous job focusing on the guest over time. You know, you start with the guest experience and understanding what's most important there and what you can most affect quickly, right? So for us, there was a lot to fix, but service and hospitality was an area where we could make a change quickly.

28:10And we did some things that changed that were very effective. And my COO, who came from Brinker, did some things there that were very effective. So we were able to build a plan around service and hospitality quickly and roll that out quickly, which was a tremendous win. We call it red carpet hospitality, red being recognized, engaged, and delight. you know there's somebody greeting them at the host stand to recognize them right or or you walk past the guests instead of just kind of putting your head down and shuffling your feet you wave at them if they're within a certain distance we say 10 foot roll you greet them and four feet you speak to them hello how are you anything i can help you with right so trying to just make it more hospitable make it feel like you're taking care of guests in your home um so it's recognized engaged when you're at the tables serving a table engaging with them understand is it their birthday what's going on and speaking with them, engaging with them.

28:58And then delight, right? Finding opportunities to go above and beyond, right? When you recognize there's something you can do that's going to make their day. So, you know, we rolled out a program around that. Some stuff on the menu we're able to do quickly, rolled out some cool new items like the seafood boils, which launched in June. So yeah, but there's still lots to do. We got to remodel the restaurants. They're still old, Right. That's that's a capital question and a time question. We've got to do more with I want to get more value on the menu. It's a hard hit consumer and value matters a lot and we can do better there.

29:31So there's we've done some things. There's lots more to do. But you try to just rank them in terms of importance and ease of execution.

29:37David Novak:Can you tell us a story about a decision you've already made that was really, really hard to do and wasn't necessarily the most popular thing to do? Well, I'll say that the menu decisions are always tricky because you're trying to keep the menu simple and innovate at the same time. So anything you possibly want to simplify is going to affect some people. So you try to just make the best decisions you can there. But I'll say what's rewarding is on the flip side is when you come in with an item that you're not sure how well it's going to perform. And it performs out of the out of the out of the box well.

30:08Right. Like our seafood boils that we launched in June. So the trade there's always tradeoffs with menu. If you just add and never subtract, it gets large. but anything you consider it's going to be a tough decision, right? Because it's on there for a reason. Now, you're predicting, and this is a bold one, you know,

30:25David Novak:but I read where you're predicting that this will be, I quote, the greatest comeback story in restaurant history, you know? Yeah, they always take that part of the quote, but they forget the first part. I said, if we're successful. Oh, if we're successful, okay. And I say that just because of where the company started, right? It started in such a depressed state that if we're successful, I think it would be. I've never read about a company that would have come back from the situation it was in to be successful. And why did you go public with a statement like that? Because people do cut off maybe that little caveat.

31:00Well, it's true. I just live in a world of truth. I don't mind saying things that are true. And I've said that to the team, too. If we can succeed here, then it'd be the greatest comeback in restaurant history, as far as I'm aware. I think that's true. So, you know, that's all. But but it's no guarantees of success. We have to work hard. There's a lot of things to do. You know, these are the other things I say that aren't as quotable, perhaps, but it's day by day. And that is the goal. That is the prize. Right. So it's about taking it one day at a time.

31:28David Novak:You know, I've been in turnaround situations before, and it can feel a little lonely, obviously. And there's a lot of weight on your shoulders. But you've got to go in every day energized, you know, and giving people a sense that, you know, you can actually get this done. What do you do to do that? Is that important to you? Yeah, people, it is important. You know that because you've led some great companies. But people watch you every day, as you know. And the attitude you come in with, the demeanor you come in with is noticed. right? So what I try to do is be even keel. Because if I try to come in like high energy, you can't sustain that.

32:05So some days you'll succeed and some days you'll look like you dropped off. So I don't try to be any different, but I try to come in even. I try to come in as myself. I try to be positive, but I also try to be realistic and honest about difficulties and challenges, right? So that way you're kind of moving at even versus spiking super excited one day and then down the next day because you can't maintain every day some super hyped up positive energy. You got to be yourself and you have to be even.

32:35David Novak:That's a great insight. And, you know, and anytime I've ever gone into a turnaround situation, I've always found the morale is usually down and people lack belief. How do you get people to believe again? Well, you show a path, right? And again, I try not to guarantee victory because it's not guaranteed. And this was a super challenged company. So there's a lot of ways where things could go wrong. But at the same time, you show a path to success, right? Like how could things go right? And how could we win? Right. And that's the that's what you try to zero people in on is how to win. Right. And it's not simple.

33:09It's not, you know, it's not without risk. It's not straightforward in a situation like this. But there is a path to victory. And you show them that and you try to walk that path. Right. And when things go wrong, I think you got to be honest. Right. And say there's we have to make these changes and there's a challenge and we have to make some adjustments. So you try to communicate honestly, but at the same time, keep on a path towards a potential win and then celebrate the small wins, right? Because it's hard to wait till you're at the end of the mountain. If something small goes well, I think it's good to celebrate that and let the teams feel good about it.

33:44David Novak:Absolutely. Can you give an example of when you've done that? Yeah, look, I mean, I think the seafood bowls were a really good win and I wanted the culinary team to take pride in that. So in my town hall, I shouted them out and all the work that went into it and how well it performed. Right. So that's one example. And then there's, you know, it's not all it's not a it's not a straight line up. Right. And it's a lot of times it's jagged. There's wins and there's setbacks. And so you want to acknowledge the setbacks and correct course and you want to celebrate the wins where you can. So people feel like there's progress.

34:16So you have to do both.

34:18David Novak:You know, everybody knows how important culture is, the work environment is, not only in every restaurant you have, but within your restaurant support center. And, you know, as a CEO, you're building this culture. What's the single biggest thing that you're really trying to drive from a behavioral standpoint within the company to turn the business around? Well, I think in this company, one of the things we can do better is be scrappier, Be quicker. You know, it's a company that came from a large, large company, right? This used to be part of Darden. And it was the biggest brand in Darden. So there was a, you know, when you're at that scale, there's a certain bureaucracy that takes hold.

34:58And we're just not that company anymore, right? This company's been bankrupt. It's shed a lot of locations. It's shed a lot of value. It's small now relative to what it used to be. So now it's time to act like a smaller company and do things more quickly to try to create value and create momentum. You know, that's a cultural shift as much as it is any sort of directive. So it takes time, and I think we're better now than we were a year ago, but it's always, you know, it's always progress.

35:25David Novak:How much of the past do you feel like you have to hold on to to go into the future? Well, you need to hold on to what's made the company great over time. You know, you can't overnight try to change what the company is. There's a lot that you hold on to. You started the interview with the Cheddar Bay Biscuits. We'll hold on to that. You know, hold on to the things that made the company great that people love, right, and try to innovate where we can while maintaining the core. And you innovated, as you mentioned, with the seafood boils this summer. You know, what did that rollout teach you about, you know, listening to and then, you know, responding to customers?

36:04Yeah, look, we had a big viral rollout, right? And it was, again, not by accident. It's a really great job by our culinary and marketing teams to identify the opportunity and execute against it. We tested it, of course, but what we didn't test or anticipate is how many new guests came in that weren't part of our customer set before. So we attracted a brand new guest of people who like love seafood boils and try them in other local places. So the expectation level there is just different. And so we noticed that quickly and there was people that wanted it to be more spicy, for example. So I pushed the team to deliver on what we could quickly to satisfy these people, right?

36:38These new guests that we had brought in. So we made some changes a few weeks later just to give people options, the spicy option and the extra spicy option. We did that within two weeks, right? So, you know, that was a quick reaction to the feedback we got right away. And you can't always do that, of course. But when the moment calls for it and it's important enough and we can move quickly enough, then, you know, we tried to deliver that.

36:59David Novak:Well, that's a great example of your scrappy culture. I commend you guys on that. That's fantastic. You know, something else happened this summer, and I know you're reputed to be an avid learner, and, you know, Cracker Barrel got a lot of people's attention trying to reimagine their brand. They had to pull back after getting so much backlash. What were you thinking and what were you, you know, observing as you watched all that go down as it relates to what you're going to be doing at Red Lobster? I mean, a lot, a lot, right? We watch that. You watch the competition closely. You watch others and what they're doing, what's working, what's not.

37:40But, you know, on that, I think it appeared to us from the outside. And, of course, I don't have all the facts. But from the outside, it appeared to just be a bit of a disconnect with the core consumer in terms of what they were expecting and what the direction the leaders wanted to take the brand. And perhaps that's the right end point, but perhaps they moved too quickly and weren't considerate enough about how people might react to it. So it seemed like a slight disconnect or maybe more than slight based on the backlash. But, you know, they course corrected. Now, I'd say leading up to the course correction, there's perhaps some communication that could have taken place to ease the backlash.

38:15But eventually they got there and they pulled back and it seems to have all quieted down. So, you know, they seem to have managed it well at the end. But yes, lots to learn. How quickly do you want to move? How much change do you want to impose? and how much are you listening to your guests in the interim to make sure that you're doing things the right way.

38:30David Novak:Did you and your team get together and talk about that and try to codify the learnings? Or is this just something you kind of packed in the back of your head? No, we talk all the time, right? So we talk about it, you know, not just the bad, but the good. People were doing things well. So no, this is part of ongoing observation and communication. So it's, yeah, we're constantly watching and learning where we can. And everybody these days is talking about AI. What's something about AI that has made you maybe stop doing as you're leading the brand? And maybe something that it's allowing you to start doing?

39:07AI is going to change the world. I mean, to a large degree, it has already. So it'd be silly to ignore it. For us, I encourage people to use it in their day-to-day work. We have a license via our technology provider. So people should use it to be better at their jobs. It helps with a variety of things that you do day to day for everybody. So I'm heavy on encouraging people to use it. We haven't implemented an organizational use case for it in terms of what's a thing that we do as a company that AI could replace. But there's a lot of people working on that. A lot of our partners are working on that, inventory management, labor scheduling, guest comment management.

39:46So there's a lot of use cases that I expect in the near term, AI will become more and more a part of. I think a lot of that will happen through our partners. and they'll provide solutions for us to use versus us developing it in-house. But nonetheless, I think it's going to be more and more of a part of our business.

40:02David Novak:And for you personally, how are you using AI right now to make you more effective? Yeah, like I said, it can help you with a variety of tasks. I think a lot of administrative and organizational tasks it's good for. A lot of research it's good for to comb the internet and pull research on a particular topic it's good for. So I use it. I think most people that I know use it in some capacity. And it's, I think, a wise thing to do because it's here to stay. Demol, this has been a lot of fun, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? It's rock and roll.

40:38David Novak:The three words that best describe you? Bold, empathetic, decisive. If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be? You know, let's go Tom Brady. What's your biggest pet peeve? I don't like dishonesty. I think not accepting truth is a mistake. And when I see it, I try to tell people to live in the truth. Who would play you in a movie?

41:02I don't know. Let's do Will Smith. He played the stockbroker in that one movie.

41:08David Novak:What's something you miss the most about Nigeria, if you remember it since you left at nine years old? Or do you go back? Nigerians generally are just a very kind of warm culture. It's very connected. and it's a nice thing to be a part of. If anybody has a chance to visit Lagos, I'd encourage it. You'll be welcomed. People are very kind and very loving and it's a great culture to be surrounded by. What's your personal record for Cheddar Bay Biscuits eaten in a single setting? Ooh, I mean, sometimes I'm there for a long time all day with the team. So if I count that as one setting, it's going to be a big number.

41:49It's going to be, let's say, it'll be over a dozen. Across a couple of meals, it'll be in the dozen, couple dozen.

41:56David Novak:Do we have a Cheddar Bay Biscuits national contest coming like Nathan's Hot Dogs? Okay. I think that's a good idea. We're going to name it after you. We're going to roll that out. I had to give you one idea, you know. What's something you've been curious about lately that has nothing to do with work? You know, I'm curious about, I think we have a lot of difficulty in certain segments of the consumer. And this has to do with work, but it also has to do with the sociopolitical climate that we live in, which I think is tied to the economic climate. So understanding what young people are living through right now.

42:30And people, you know, call me young, of course. I'm talking about the people graduating from college now and what their opportunities are and how it's affecting them sociopolitically, especially, to try to understand what it means for our future. So that's a curiosity that I think it's work-related, but not totally. What's the one thing you do just for you? I work out every morning. And so I think that's for me. That's, you know, you say, how do I come in every morning with energy? By trying to stay fit, stay active, and you'll have more energy.

42:59David Novak:I agree with that. Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession? I don't think much about possessions, to be honest. I like my house. My house is great. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Jazz music these days. Again, they say I'm young, but I'm an old man. Just listen to my jazz and relax. That's kind of most of what I'm listening to. You're wise beyond your years. What's something about you few people would know? For me, it's just, I like to just make it clear to people that I had a normal high school, pre-high school upbringing. I like to make it clear that anybody can achieve anything.

43:31So not that they would know or wouldn't know, but I like to be clear that I didn't come from any sort of special background in terms of what I'm, aside from good parents and a good household, but people should feel like anything's possible and what I'm doing is available to them and the world is their oyster.

43:45David Novak:Besides your workout, what's one of your daily rituals that you never miss? This isn't daily, so don't send a group to have an intervention, but I like to smoke cigars and probably most days I'll have a cigar.

44:02David Novak:I can't handle that. That's one thing I can't do. I'm happy you can, but I'm not man enough for the cigars. That's my thing, I know. We're out of the lightning round. Good job, appreciate it. I got a few more questions. Now, you said yes to P.F. Chang's, and now you're doing it at Red Lobster. You're celebrating the small wins, but you've admittedly said you got a ways to go, and it's not going to be easy. What do you like so much about doing things that are hard? Because you're not taking it the easy way. I like challenges. And there's no way to live a super impactful life without going through hard things.

44:41I just don't think there's ways to make impact without subjecting yourself to some degree of difficulty. Because by definition, the most impactful things are the hardest things. If they were easy, everybody would do them. So I don't mind if there's an upside case or a reward to it. I don't mind putting myself through something difficult. And you're not guaranteed to win either. And people need to recognize that. You're not guaranteed anything in life. So you do your best. You try your best to win. It's not a guarantee, but you take all the challenges and you let it turn out as best as it can.

45:12David Novak:You know, if you had to summarize and you're in the process of turning the business around at Red Lobster, you know, and P.F. Chang's was no piece of cake either. You know, what are the top two or three things you've learned leading a business in distress that others can apply to their own situation? One of the most important things is when you take over a business that's performing badly, assume the downside conservative case to start. And not because you want to be a pessimist, but you want to prepare the company to be ready in case things don't improve as quickly as you want them to. So in all of your planning and forecasting and budgeting, assume a downside case as a baseline and then try your best to beat it is what I advise.

45:56In addition to that, I think it's important to make sure everybody understands the difficulty of the work that's required, but then lay out a path to victory, right? So that's two things. You don't come in and say everything is great and it's going to be just fine. You say we're in a really challenged situation and here's all the problems and there's no guarantee of success, but here's how we're going to win and here's how we're going to try to find a way through it. And here's the strategy and here's the path, right? So getting people on the same page, not being over-optimistic on your forecasting will prepare you to grind your way out of the situation that you're in.

46:31David Novak:You take over Red Lobster. Red Lobster has a great history and was a leader in its category and had its glory days. What is it that you've learned that brands like that do that take them down the rat hole? They take their eye off the guest. That's the number one thing I've seen is things are going well. And maybe it becomes more about optimizing margins. Maybe it becomes more about, you know, expanding the tent. They take their eye off the core guests and do some things that make the core guest unhappy and come visit less. And if that's not corrected quickly, it can snowball and you can start to see the traffic declines.

47:13And in our business, traffic is king. You know, if traffic starts to decline, you know, the whole business will start to struggle. that's the number one thing. And if people can stay focused on the guest and on driving positive traffic, they tend to do well for a long time.

47:28David Novak:And what do you do to make sure that as you lead the company, that the company stays front and center focused on the customer? Yeah, that's a lot of my job. And it's a great question because you have a lot of competing priorities. So you just have to make that decision that that's going to be your number one priority. And it's not always easy because there are trade-offs, right? But if you make the decision, you're going to prioritize that, then the team will do the same. And last question here. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? Leadership is self-improvement.

48:04Understand yourself and what your strengths are and where you can be better. Because the stronger you are as a person, the more people are going to want to follow you. So if you want to be a better leader, become a better person. That's my advice.

48:16David Novak:And how do I have to ask a follow up on that? You know, what's your self-awareness process? Truth, honesty, right? How do you get it? Well, the problem is most people are sensitive and they don't want to be criticized and they don't even want to think about criticizing themselves. So it's hard for people. So at some point you have to not take it personally. It's almost like you have to separate yourself from yourself. You're not talking about you. You're talking about this person, right? And what's this person do well? And what could this person do better? And so if you cannot take it personally, then you can be self-critical, which I think is important because that's how you improve, right?

48:51Or you can accept third-party criticism and not take it as a personal attack if it's coming from a good place. So that's how you improve is just by being honest and not being afraid to recognize your weaknesses.

49:03David Novak:Well, Damala, I've really enjoyed this. I see why you're in the role and see why you're making good success. And if you're successful, I want you to know something. You will be leading the greatest turnaround in the history of the world. Restaurant industry, I said. Yes, thank you. I appreciate that.

49:28David Novak:David, after that interview, I, for one, cannot wait to hit up a Red Lobster. I'll probably go tonight for dinner. Damola got me so excited for all the amazing things that he's doing there. He's got a lot to do, and he's the first to admit it. But I like the fact how he's celebrating the small wins. And I think when you're in a turnaround situation, you can't wait until it's finished and it's over. You've got to build momentum. And finding those small wins, those are key, whether it's his hospitality program or the new product that he just rolled out this summer. He's building momentum, making progress.

50:08David Novak:And he's got this path to victory. I liked how he talked about you got to give people that a sense that they can win. And there's the steps that you need to take to get there. And, you know, we'll see what happens. I think that I was very impressed. I mean, this guy is he may be 34, 35 years old, but he's he's an old soul and he's wise beyond his years. I agree. You know, this is not the first restaurant turnaround situation he's been in. He did it at P.F. Chang's when he took over as CEO during COVID and turned that business around. And he's trying to do the same thing at Red Lobster. I love what he said, though, David, when you asked him about, you know, how do you prioritize the things that you need to do in a turnaround situation?

50:48David Novak:Because everything feels like it's on fire. And he said, you know, you have to rank the things in order of importance and ease of execution. And then he says, you start with the guest experience. And that seems like such an obvious thing to do, especially in the restaurant business. But from your perspective, David, if there are listeners listening to this who might be leading companies during a time of crisis. Is that always the thing to do is start with the customer, like in any scenario? Well, I mean, it is a basic and you think that it should never not be done. But anytime brands go afar, it's when they lose touch with their customers.

51:29David Novak:And anytime someone brings them back, they get in touch with their customers. So, yeah, it's an obvious thing that you should do. But too many people don't. And you get too internally focused and you're not really focused on what really matters, which is making your customers or your guests really happy. And that's why I asked him, what made Red Lobster get in trouble in the first place? And he said they lost track of their guests. And I can tell you what's going to get Red Lobster back on track is if they can really satisfy and delight their guests, which is really what he's trying to do. recognize the guest, engage with the guest and delight the guests.

52:10David Novak:I also love when you ask him, you know, how do you deal with all the pressure as a young CEO? And you're trying to revive this brand that's been around for, you know, over 50 years. How do you deal with all that pressure? And I loved his answer. I wrote it down. He said, pressure takes away clear thinking. Don't let it. And I just love that because he's so right. You have to stay tethered to his, he's big on truth and honesty and not let the pressure of the moment cloud your thinking. David, what else would you say to someone who is in a leadership role dealing with a lot of pressure, maybe even not in a turnaround situation about staying focused on the things that really matter so that the pressure doesn't cloud your thinking?

52:52David Novak:Well, I like his comment about the importance of staying even keeled. You can't get too high. You can't get too low. I think, you know, staying even killed and doing what he said, focus on the truth, you know, keep bringing the reality front and center in terms of what your customers are telling you, what your people are telling you. And also, you know, wanting that truth as a leader so you can get better. And, you know, I think he understands that that's key to the success of this turnaround, but it's also key to the success of keeping a business that's humming, humming. I also wrote down in all caps after listening to that interview, a quote from him.

53:36David Novak:He says, I live in the world of truth. And obviously we talk about truth tellers and establishing the reality of our business in most of the interviews that we do. But for some reason that really hit me. I live in the world of truth because I think, you know, especially at such young age and dealing with all this pressure to try to turn around this business, it would be really easy to let yourself drift away from that truth. So aside from having truth tellers in your life and staying grounded and the reality of what's going on in the business, what else would you say to people to just stay laser focused on what it is that really matters?

54:12David Novak:Well, I think you have to define what really matters. You know, every great company has process and discipline around what really matters. You know, the customer, the operations that satisfy the customer, the quality that satisfies the customer. You identify those key things that you know that if you get them right, you have a chance to win. If you get them wrong, you know you're not going to win. And then you let everybody in the organization know what those winning factors are. Another thing that was really clear throughout the conversation is that Damola is someone who is constantly learning and constantly trying to refine and improve.

54:46David Novak:not only the aspects of the business, but himself as well. And that final question where you asked him, what piece of advice would you give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? He said, leadership is self-improvement. And I love that so much. I mean, self-awareness and self-improvement is also a thing we talk about a lot. But I'm just curious what you took away from kind of his emphasis on this idea of self-improvement and leadership being defined as that. Well, I think continuous improvement, perpetual improvement, these are things that every business has to do to stay on top. When you stop improving, you start to decline.

55:26David Novak:And when that decline happens, it compounds and it gets worse and worse and worse. And the same is true if you're a leader. You've got to be into perpetual improvement. You've got to constantly be trying to make yourself better. And you've got to be seeking the truth. So I think the idea of seeking the truth, defining reality for your customers, and then defining your realities for yourself as a leader, I think is the way to go. And if you had to boil it down, if you don't start out with high self-awareness of what needs to be done in the business that you're leading and for you as a leader, you'll never maximize the potential of your business or yourself.

56:03David Novak:You mentioned this in the interview, David, but you can't see Damola's name in the press right now without somebody mentioning that he's 34 or 35, however old he is. and I love when you just talk to him about it. You said, well, how do you deal with people talking about how young you are? And I love what he talks about when he says how he kind of hedges that. He says he surrounds himself with great people and listens to those great people and that becomes his experience. After talking to Damola, like let's just say, David, you're still at Yum Brands and you're looking for a CEO of Taco Bell or Pizza Hut.

56:36David Novak:Would you seriously consider someone who is that young to take over a brand that big? Probably not. You know, I think that - What about him do you think got him to the place that he is at? Well, I think he was put in these situations because nobody else wanted the job. And, you know, I mean, and he's the first to admit that, and I love that. And I might, you know, I don't know. I might take a shot on him, you know. You know, but I'm saying most leaders would not. Most leaders would come up with reasons why he couldn't do it. And, in fact, I used to get in real arguments with my team when I would hear them say, you know, he or she doesn't have the experience.

57:13David Novak:I said, well, what were you doing when you were 37? You know, I know what I was doing. I was running marketing, you know, at Pepsi Cola company. I know what Roger Enrico was doing. He was the president of Pepsi Cola. And, you know, these people did a lot of, you know, we all did a lot of things younger. But when you get older, you think people don't have that kind of, you got to have all this experience that you've gained by putting in the hard yards. And that's just not the way it is. You want to find talent. You want to give them the opportunity. I would hope that I would want to put somebody like him in a big job.

57:45The other thing I really liked what he said is that just look at history.

57:50David Novak:Look at all the great people in the past who've been, you know, 24, 25 years old when they had big jobs. And, you know, I thought that was great. And, you know, if you can use history to inspire people with what's possible, you know. And I think that's kind of when, hey, who was it he said was 24, 25? I forget right now. Alexander the Great. Oh, Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar. Yeah. They were younger than me. Well, okay, you go for it, big guy. I love that. He said, listen, this is not a new thing. There have been young leaders since the beginning of time. Yeah, well, that's because back then people died when they were 34 and 35.

58:31David Novak:But anyway, I think this guy's got a lot of potential. And I think what leaders have to do is find people who have potential and put them in big jobs, as big as jobs as you think you can handle as fast as you can. Because my dad always said potential means you haven't done it yet. But I tell you what, when you have potential, that means you can do it. And you want to test somebody as fast as you can in that arena. Well, I, too, am so impressed with Zamola. He's just so smart. And he is an old soul. I mean, I can just picture him after a day of work, like sitting back on a recliner, smoking a cigar, having maybe a glass of bourbon and reading a book about Alexander the Great.

59:06David Novak:He's an old soul, but it's that energy that he brings to his work and the passion that he has to really make this iconic brand iconic again that I think we are going to witness if he is successful. The greatest comeback in restaurant history. No, in the history of the world. He's got a big job. He does have a big job. He does have a big job indeed. David, that does it for another episode of How Leaders Lead. Be sure to tune in next week and we'll see you soon.