#270: Allison Ellsworth, Founder & Lead Creative, poppi – Build your brand

24:29You know, tell me about this thing you got. You call it a black ops budget. Tell me about your black ops budget. Yeah, especially in the early years, we would have what we called was our black ops budget and whatever you could put aside for, you know, it could be$20 ,000, depending on the size of your business up to 500 ,000 or even a million. It doesn't have to be a lot, but it can be a lot. The way when we always say we move at the speed of culture, the only way to do that is to not really plan. And that's really scary for big companies because culture moves so quickly that sometimes a trend is not a trend after three days.

25:07So if it takes you two weeks to get a trend approved internally at your company, you've missed the boat. And then if there's something culturally relevant happening, how do you move quick? And how do you have the funds if everything's already allocated to other things? So we always had this like fun little budget or we'd move stuff around that we could kind of have fun. And this is a fun example. I'm sure you're a huge fan or you've probably not even heard of it, but Love Island is a huge - Oh yeah, Love Island. I'm on the Comcast board. I have to know about Love Island. Well, we love Love Island.

25:38It's such a cultural moment during the summer because there's not a lot of other new TV running. And so for us, we fell in love with Amaya this season and she won. And we were having fun with it. And we created a meme. So memes are a lot of moving at the speed of culture, right? It's people love them. And so we did an Amaya papaya flavor. And we were like, and then the community went wild. They were like, you guys have to actually do this. Well, for us to launch a new flavor within a few months to culturally make it make sense is really hard as a company, right? You have to get printed cans. You have to do a photo shoot.

26:13You have to do marketing behind it. You have to have paid. We were able to pull together a brand new can with her. It was Amaya's Pina Colada. We did it, I think, within three months. Now, that wasn't in the plan, right? And so that's what I mean is this like black ops. But it's always, we know it's something like that's going to happen a year. So we kind of just keep fun money aside for it. Your approach to marketing must be blowing the people of Pepsi away. I mean, are they going to school on you now? I mean, they not only bought a tremendous brand, you're like one of the top marketers in the world right now.

26:51Are they learning from you as we speak? After buying us, they were like, did not want to mess anything up. Their number one motto is like, let poppy be poppy. So it's still the same team in place. And at one point, we were looking at marketing to how do we open our audiences and maybe speak to more males. They're like, we got 22 brands focused on men. You guys focus on the women, the girlies, the poppy girlies, the millennials. So they're obsessed with what we're doing. We are doing sessions with them and having the best time and being collaborative. And they're really just like allowing us to kind of stay poppy.

27:25And to your point, yes, we've had a few things where they're like, hey, maybe you guys could take a look at this. But we're still focused on Poppy, which is what's beautiful of just continuing the growth. That's great. You know, and you've landed some massive brand partners. You've Post Malone, Haley Bieber, Kylie Jenner, Paris Hilton, just to name a few. Tell me a story about one of the most important lessons you've picked up from one of them, any one of them. Well, I think it's more of an overarching thing. So a lot of people don't realize the new creator marketplace of influencers and creators is really where you shouldn't put your investment in in those early days.

28:11So we worked with JLo maybe I think year two. Even though she was iconic, incredible partner to work with, we didn't really see it move the needle. And it was really surprising to us because we're like, oh my gosh, she's like one of the biggest stars in the world. She was a great partner. But it's what we realized is people don't really care about what celebrities are doing anymore. Especially in the early days when you're just building a business and you're not sold everywhere. If they can't find you, it's not going to have the hugest impact. So we got that lesson a little bit early on in business.

28:39So then we doubled down with influencers and creators. And our hack was, just for fun, Zs, we actually never worked with Kylie Jenner or Hailey Bieber. We just sent them product for free and they ended up posting us for free, which was way more authentic than doing a whole paid sponsorship deal with them. And then when it comes to Post Malone, we love Posty. He's from Texas. And we had found out that he had stopped drinking soda and was drinking poppy. And he was a fan. And so it made sense to work with him because he was like already such a big fan of ours. And then the retailers love those type of programs.

29:14So for him, it's like if you see it's very specific on why we do things versus we need to slap a celebrity across our brand because our brand is like community driven. It's founder driven. It's, you know, team driven. So I think the biggest lesson I learned is don't, you don't sometimes need a celebrity, but if you do do it for the right reasons. You know, I want to go back to TikTok for a second. You know, you said a third of their platform, their users has seen you seven times. That's an amazing, amazing stat. You know, how did you get so much success on TikTok? I mean, what was it that made that happen?

29:56I mean, that's mind boggling. You know, I always say the biggest thing is I personally got on there and learned to edit. I know how to make a TikTok. I know how to make a trend. I post. It was like from day one, it was that. But then it had to evolve, right? So then we brought in an incredible team. We brought in a social media manager. She's incredible. We have community managers consistently on the keyboards talking to people. We have three people in-house doing that nonstop, 24-7, basically talking to our community, right? Those are our fans. They're creating content. At one time, we had like seven people had logins to our TikTok, and you didn't even need to get approval to post something.

30:38Like if you thought it was cute and it's trending, go for it. And that can be really scary to big companies to allow people to go quote unquote buck wild and just do whatever they want on social media. But of course we had Garb Rills. They knew what they could and couldn't do. But that allowed us to move quick and allowed us to really have it be part of the DNA at Poppy to where it was so much bigger than me, right? It was from leadership down, believing in this platform that it was such a beautiful place to be able to talk to people. you know, now it's very 360, right? We've run a lot of linear TV, a lot of streaming.

31:11We do a lot with meta, you know, all of that stuff. But I will say still the core audience of just like our like ride or dies are on TikTok. You know, with all the success you had on TikTok, You know, and you're obviously all in on technology and where's it going? How's the learning that you've gained on TikTok influencing the way you're approaching AI today? Well, little do people know that like TikTok and anything on there has been AI for so many years. the FYP page, the way we run paid and organic is all AI driven so much so that our paid strategy is to kind of let the algorithm and the AI do what they do best and not try to over-engineer it.

32:00And so with us, I think another piece of AI that we've really, I think, saved us a lot of money is I ran our creative team at Poppy. And really, if we want to create or produce a piece of content before we would probably storyboard it out, spend a lot of time like designing mood boards and what we wanted to see, where now you can feed it in and it'll almost like spit it out for you. Like if you're like, I'm not sure what song it is, they'll make one up for you, right? And you can kind of mood board stuff out. It'll save you so much time. The amount of times we've done that and we see it and we're like, ooh, this is a bad idea.

32:33And it saved us from doing bad ideas is amazing, right? So we're using it in that aspect. And I think that a lot of people are scared of AI. They don't know how to use it. I wouldn't say like we're masters at it, but I will say within our finance and ops team, it's we're best in class. You know, finance and ops, people see a lot of the AI benefits. But what you're talking about is really unlocking creativity and moving you further along. Not people, not many people really see AI as being a real benefit in that area. You know, how did you pioneer in that? I mean, how did you even open up your mind to that being a real possibility?

33:09You know, I think Google is a beautiful thing. chat sheet. There's nowadays, there's nothing you can't really figure it out on your own. And then I think we have an incredible team at Poppy, right? I think I get a lot of credit for a lot of things at Poppy when at the end of the day, it's the team that just makes me look good. And we, like I said, we hire young, we hire smart people. We've kept everybody through the acquisition, which has been incredible. So I don't know if we're huge pioneers within it, but we always think first to try something. We're not scared to try it, if that makes sense.

33:41I think a lot of people are scared to try it versus we are never scared to be the first to try something. And I think that's given us an advantage. Now, you mentioned that you do have guardrails. You just don't let people go wild on social media. But give me an example of what a guardrail would be for Poppy. You know, I think things that might get you canceled, like our core audience is millennial moms and Gen Z. So I probably we're not going to get on there and spend a lot of time talking about politics, religion. We're not going to spend a lot of time talking about cussing or anything that could offend people, right?

34:17Nowadays, people think to stand out, you have to offend people. I think our motto is more to just love, have fun and bring joy to the world. I think that people think you have to stand out. You have to do like really stunty things. We don't do stunty things. We just connect with our community and we're authentic. And so, you know, the team kind of knows that. Or for example, I'll be like, oh my gosh, we should work with so-and-so. And they're like, oh, that person's canceled. We don't want to work with them. Like they know, they have their fingers so much on the pulse of culture of like, that person said so-and-so, don't work that.

34:54Or this could maybe not be the best look. Like we're constantly having those conversations, those real conversations every single day. How do you get your pulse on culture? It's easier said than done. I mean, you've built a company on this, But I mean, how do you do that? It's the hardest question to answer. I think it's collaboration and team because I used to be a leader where I, you know, I think all entrepreneurs start companies and you don't really start a company to have people tell you what to do or to be collaborative. And then you kind of have to figure out that that's not the best way to do things and you learn to be collaborative.

35:28So over the years, I think we get together once a month. We have incredible brainstorms. we have like unhinged calls during the week. We have one call that's our like social creative call where we just get on and we just go down deep, dark holes on the most random things and have fun and like what's trending. We're pulling trend reports and kind of staying on top of what it is. And I got to give it to the team on this one because they are young, they are scrappy, they're hard workers, and they just have their pulse on culture. And a lot of times we can get there through interviewing people. So in a typical interview at Poppy, we'll ask, what are the brands you're looking at.

36:03And if a lot of them say really big brands, we know they're probably not really in line with culture. Like if someone says something like, you know, no offense, I think Wendy's is iconic and Taco Bell and all these things, that's fine. But that's not really the like down entrepreneurial, cool move culture things, right? So it's like maybe a nude project or is it just, I mean, even Skims, I think is a cool, huge brand that people can look up to. So we can kind of get a pulse within that. And then I think we always, you know, you can kind of just, your gut can tell you. You know, back to AI for a second here.

36:38I understand you joined an AI cohort. What are a couple of the biggest insights you've learned from that group? You know, it's this TikTok collective cohort that we're part of where we've brought together quite a bit of incredible digital marketers and brand builders and creatives. and we get access to a lot of new beta programs. There's something interesting happening right now that I'm kind of here for whatever's new and if it doesn't offend anybody, where you could create a whole avatar of me, for example. So I still create 5 ,200 pieces of content a month. My time, it takes time to do this thing.

37:18So then it's like you start having these questions. Do we have a fun avatar? And then we talk about it and we joke about it and we always poke fun at it and say like, I couldn't be in seven places at once? Or is that authentic to our community, right? So these are the kind of conversations that I think a lot of people are having with AI right now. And so for us, we've definitely decided it's probably not the most authentic thing for us at Poppy, but we're having conversations. We're talking about it. We're aware of it. And I think if something comes out and it's right for us, we'll consider it.

37:51What do you think is a leadership habit that you developed because you didn't come from the beverage industry? Yeah. So it took me a while to figure out my superpower as a leader. But I think my ability to inspire and encourage is really infectious. So I feel like if I'm in the room, anybody can feel like they can do anything and almost take it 20 % bigger, if that makes sense. So it's like, if they're like, the sky was limit. I'm like, no, no, no, go more. like go 20, 30, 40, like think bigger is really my superpower. I think leadership is where it was an evolving journey for me because I was Poppy.

38:36Poppy was me. I was creative. I was like this whole thing. Then to come in and like have other opinions and to grow. We were one of the fastest, if not fastest growing companies in the history of beverage. You know, I think that But when you're growing that quick, you need really incredible people on your team with a lot of success. So early on, we decided to bring in a CEO. That was really hard. I had to get coaching and business coaches and figure out how to go through that because it's the thing that you want success for the company so bad and you don't want your ego to get in the way of growth.

39:09And so I'm very self-aware. Was it hard? Absolutely. It was hard. But look at the success we had because we made those hard decisions. What was the hardest thing about that? stepping back and not just like having the final say or not just doing it my way. Because at the time, I thought my way was best. I've learned it's not. Not always best. Sometimes it is. And I think that's a growth. That was a really big growth opportunity for me. And I think it made me an incredible leader today because of it, going through those hardships. And so, I think change is the only constant life, right? Things are always changing.

39:44And those that can embrace change as a leader, I think are going to be way more successful. And you just take marketing, for example. If we would have just gone in and done the same boring old marketing that everyone's done for the last 25 years, Poppy wouldn't be where it was today. But we changed. We evolved. We thought differently. And so I will say even our CEO that came in, he has told me I've changed his leadership style because before he was like very, you know, organized and not as chaotic, didn't know what a black ops budget was. And now he's like sees the beauty in that. And so we were able to evolve together.

40:18What's something, you know, people are so important and you created this company and you created the culture in so doing, you know. What's something that you really focused on in the work environment and the culture that you're trying to create at Poppy? So with our growth, it was so fast. I mean, we were 300 % year over year. We went from like zero to 500 million in four years. Like it's crazy growth. And so to keep people to not burn out and to keep people motivated is really hard, right? But I think what we did special at Poppy is we invested in the culture and the team. So when we first started the company, we were a fully remote company for the first two years.

41:02Two years of COVID, makes sense. When it was time to reopen and start an HQ, we did start one in Austin. And anyone that wanted to come could come. Nobody had to come, right? It was this, we were able to create a beautiful culture where remote worked and person worked and we didn't care what you wanted to do. I think that's hard for big companies to like kind of figure out that balance. And it was because we invested in things that were fun. So my biggest thing to prevent burnout is to have fun. And I know it's like work hard, play hard, but it's more, you know, giggling and meetings, being funny, not taking yourself so serious.

41:38If you're going to be together as a team, don't spend the entire day in a, you know, a boardroom, talk going over PowerPoints, like go play pickleball. you know how much more creative you can be in talking about stuff if you're out playing pickleball or golf or axe throwing or a panic room? Like, I know it sounds cheesy, but we were really intentional with making sure we did stuff like that at Poppy that it wasn't all work because then people come back refreshed. They want to work harder and we saw a bigger return. And I always think laughter prevents negative health issues, all sorts of things.

42:09So don't take life so serious. And that's kind of was the culture at Poppy. It was this work hard, play hard mentality. be silly. And now you have this group of axe throwers. Yes, exactly. Anyone that wants to sign up, pickleballers and axe throwers. I love it. You know, there's this phrase that I hear a lot, you know, mom guilt. Has that shown up to you in any point? And if so, how do you navigate through it? Yeah, I mean, I think people have all sorts of guilt when you are working, you know, 80 hours a week and gone constantly. I think for me, I had a good support system at home and mine were very little.

42:50And I think early on, me and my husband, we worked together. We're both the founders of Poppy. So it was 24-7 Poppy. It was like all we talked about in our households. And early on, we kind of said, let's let the guilt go. We're already working so hard. We are so tired. And we're just making it harder on ourselves. Let the guilt go. Are the kids happy? Are they loved? and do they feel safe? And once we kind of got to the bottom of that, I'm pretty good at letting that stuff go. Yeah, do I miss someone to go to town? Yes, but like they're fine. They're loved, they're safe and they're happy and healthy.

43:24So I'm better at it than most because I just feel like we're all human and sometimes you don't have to be so hard on yourself. Now you and your husband, Stephen, built this business from scratch as a team of two And it was that way for quite a while. You know, what advice would you give to others when working with a spouse? Just know what you're getting into. At the end of the day, we do very different things. And we have such incredible talents at what we do, right? I did the creative and brand. He ran our ops and supply chain and our innovation team. And I respected what he did. I think he respected what I did.

44:08No, I know he respected what I did. And I think that we saw value in that. And the sacrifice that we had was towards one common goal. Like all teams or all things you're doing, if you guys have a common goal that you're both working towards, it's really rewarding. I'll be honest, now that we've sold Poppy and we're on the other side and we're working on almost like different goals, it's a new dynamic that we're working through. Like, wait, what? You're doing what? You're doing this. And we're having to like relearn how to work together. But that's just adaptability and change that now I'm like, got to figure that one out.

44:39So I think that most people can't do it. I would never change it and not do it with them. You know, has there ever been a moment when you two completely disagreed on something and it actually made Poppy better? Yeah, one of our biggest fights was when we were going from mother beverage to Poppy and he wanted to add sugar to it. So how I started Poppy is I had some health problems and my tummy hurt and I was tired all the time. Started drinking apple cider vinegar. Didn't like the taste of apple cider vinegar. So I went to my kitchen and I created the first version. And he was like, it's good, but it can be a little bit better.

45:18Let's add five grams of sugar. And I was like, never, we're never doing that. And then he totally just did it anyways. And then our sales like tripled, quadrupled. It was wildly successful after that. And what we realized is people say one thing and they do another. So people want to be healthy, but they aren't, right? And so five grams of sugar was like that cusp of, I still feel pretty good about myself. And then we opened ourselves up to so many more people because it tasted way better. And so it was one of those moments where I was wrong. He loves when I say that, but I will say, you know, like there's stuff like that, that it was just like, I thought it was the right way.

45:57And then he won it and vice versa. We have multiple where I was like, nope, we're doing this. And he got behind me. Now I got to ask you this. take me behind the scenes of your PepsiCo deal. What's something people don't know about how it all came together? Okay. So I think something that's kind of fun is we were having crazy growth and we never did a formal process. So a lot, what that means is like you hire a bank, then you kind of go out to the market and say, we're for sale. Well, we weren't sure because we were having crazy growth. It's always a balance of right time. You don't want to do it too soon.

46:32You don't want to do it too late. And so we had almost been kind of like talking to Pepsi and dating them. But then when it was finally time to do it, I think we made one phone call and they gave us an offer in three days. And it was, I think, one of the fastest M &A offers and acceptance. I mean, I don't know the ins and outs of other ones, but I mean, it was just so wildly fast because we had been dating them, done the in-person meetings. It was like all of that stuff already that when it was finally down to get down to business. We just knew they were the right partner. They gave us a fair offer.

47:07We didn't want it to drag out and hurt relationships. And we said, yes, we're like, let's, let's go. And it sounds like, you know, while Pepsi has a hundred percent control of the business, or did they own a hundred percent? They bought a hundred percent. Yeah. And, but you're still running the business, you and the CEO and the team and they're, they're, it's pretty much hands off. And is that that am I describing it that properly or they're working? Yeah, they're allowing Poppy to say Poppy. So our CEO is still running the business. I obviously am no longer an employee because I sold my business.

47:40So I came back on as an advisor. So I'm still advising with the same team on the creative and brand and all of that. So, yeah, their their whole thinking was like, don't mess up a good thing. Because, you know, this brand is your identity. I mean, it's it's like letting your baby go. How hard was that? You know, I just kind of feel like she's at college now. So I'm here to like guide her. But I know for sure the team. I mean, some of the team has been with us since day one. They are they know stuff and are way cooler than me and a lot of stuff. So I also think what comes with a good leader is trust.

48:15And I truly trust the team. And I'm so happy that I could kind of like step back and advise and just like really see it grow. And I'm seeing it. We're just still doing such sick stuff. That's great. And you disrupted an industry dominated by giant corporations like PepsiCo and Coca-Cola. What do you think it is that you understand about today's consumers that maybe big players don't get? And I'm not just talking about PepsiCo and Coca-Cola. You know, it's Procter & Gamble. You pick the company. What do you think it is that you get that maybe others don't? I think to make impact, you don't have to spend a lot of money.

48:53I think that big marketing campaigns and to break through to build community isn't highly produced content. It isn't over the top in real life activations. It's not spending a ton of money running TV ads. It's finding out where your community is and meeting them where they are. And that's where you should invest. And I think, you know, I always say, I think if three years from now and I see like an ad where people are giggling around a pool, like cheersing a poppy with cheesy smiles on the face, like that's my worst nightmare to have like this overproduced like we're having fun ad. It's like they just try so hard versus what is culturally relevant.

49:36And it's really hard to figure it out. But hire young and trust your team. Now, in your business, you know, how big is your brand right now in terms of sales? You know, Poppy is, well, we have 250 employees. We are in the U.S., Canada, Mexico, looking to go into the U.K. And then, you know, on track, you know, sometime next year, do over a billion. So you're a billion. And, you know, in the soda business, typically, you obviously want to make that as mainstream as you possibly can, you know. And how do you balance this community versus going broad? No, you just, you don't forget where you came from.

50:18We had a good lesson one year. So if I had to say there was one misstep along the way with Poppy was our Super Bowl last year. We ran an ad and we wanted to figure out a way to 360 amplify it. And we sent out vending machines. And we sent them to 30 different places because we wanted to be in like all the cities across the US. and the internet thought that we had gifted vending machines to influencers. And they were like, Poppy, this is just too much. You already did a Super Bowl ad. This is like out of touch. Why would you give them? And then our biggest competitor got into the conversation and started putting false information out there that they were$25 ,000 vending machines and it was this.

51:01And so it just started to spiral and it felt really out of touch and not community driven. And so it was a good lesson for us to remember where we came from that we didn't really need to do something so extravagant in that versus this year, you know, we're just going to do some fun watch parties. Like you don't need to go that big every time if you're already doing a Super Bowl ad. So I think for us, we're still learning and it was a good lesson for us. You know, this has been so much fun. And Allison, I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? Okay.

51:32The three words that best describe you? Authentic, direct, and kind. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Martha Stewart. What's your biggest pet peeve? People chewing really loud. Who would play you in a movie? Anne Hathaway. What's your go-to poppy flavor? Strawberry lemon. What's something from your early prototypes you're glad never made it to the shelves? Glass bottles. What's a piece of feedback you've never forgotten? Figure out your non-negotiables early and hang on to them. What's something you've been curious about lately that has nothing to do with work?

52:12Golf. What's the one thing you do just for you? Golf. Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession? Maybe my jewelry. My family owned a jewelry store, and I have some beautiful pieces from my grandfather that gave to me. I thought you might say it was your lob wedge after those two golf games. I know, right? If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? A podcast. What's something about you few people would know? I was a dance major in college. What's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss? Five-step skincare routine. I love it. That's fantastic.

52:52You're out of the lightning round. Great job. What's next, Allison? I mean, both for Poppy and you personally. I think for Poppy, it's to continue doing what we do best and revolutionizing soda for the next generation. And then for me, figuring out personally how to, you know, step back, be with my kids a little bit. My husband's very eager to start another business already. I'm like, give me a second. So we'll see. But I definitely see another business in me. I'm not done yet. And so I have to ask you, you know, what's your handicap? What's your golf handicap? Oh, it's horrible. So since quote unquote retiring, I've been taking golf lessons twice a week.

53:36I did a 97 yesterday, which is for three months in is not bad. 25 handicap. I mean, you're getting there. It's horrible. It's okay. You're getting there. Three months in, I'll take it. All right. Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? Be comfortable with being uncomfortable if you want to scale and grow quick and don't let your ego get in the way of growth. Fantastic. Allison, you're something else. I really enjoyed this. The time flew. Fantastic. Thank you.

54:16David, I had to run out of poppy on the very day that we record the episode about Allison Ellsworth. What's wrong with you, Kula? I mean, you know, I mean, everybody has poppy in stock now. It's the hottest new soft drink beverage out there. Well, I agree. And it's why my fridge is normally stocked with poppy. However, I drank the last one I had last night and didn't have time to make it to the store today, but I was hoping to cheers you with a can of poppy as we debrief this episode. I love the way that Allison goes about building a brand. She says that, you know, a lot of startups make the mistake at the beginning of focusing way too much on their product and not enough on the brand.

54:53And when that happens, people don't feel a strong connection to the product because there's no real brand that they can develop a relationship with. When those priorities compete, David, product and brand, how do you guide your team through that tension and create a great product while also building momentum around a brand people feel connected to? Well, I think they're inextricably linked. I mean, I think if you have to understand what your product is, then you develop the emotional connection that exists between your product and the customer. In her particular case, she developed this fantastic new brand that basically is solving the problem in the soft drink category.

55:40Most soft drinks are perceived to be not healthy for you. She's created a healthier soft drink, and it only has 25 calories, you know, five grams of sugar, you know, great ingredients, and it tastes good. And, you know, that's the key here. I mean, she's really created a better for you brand that tastes good. Anytime you can do that in the world of packaged goods, you've usually, you know, hit the home run because people don't want to sacrifice on taste. So if you can give them something that tastes good that's better for them, you're all set. In fact, you know, I was introduced to this product I mentioned on the podcast by my grandkids.

56:22My grandkids love the product. They said, you know, Ogo, you got to taste this product. It's great. And, you know, I did. And it's a terrific product. And my granddaughter, Audrey, says, you know, Pepsi ought to buy this. And I said, they will. And sure enough, as I mentioned earlier, they did. But, you know, she's found the magic of linking a product with an emotional hook, a real benefit that the consumer buys into. and she's really a tremendous marketer. One of the things I really love about, you know, the way she markets the brand and stays culturally relevant is in her team, there is an entire team called the culture team.

57:04And she talks about this in the episode. It's not, you know, HR or internal culture. It is a group of Gen Zers who are constantly scouring the internet for culturally relevant trends that they can latch onto to build momentum for a brand. They even have a black ops budget. And it's basically like carte blanche a little bit to this team to say, hey, if there's a trend and you see something that would work, go ahead and do it. There's no approval process for social posts at Poppy. So she's created this environment where people really feel the autonomy to see something that might work and test it out.

57:37And they have the resources to really do that. And I'm curious, you know, as she was talking about that in the interview, David, what do you think the real lesson is there for leaders whose brands might not be trying to stay culturally relevant, but there's surely a lesson there in empowering your team? Yeah, well, I think the team has been empowered to execute what the brand stands for. What she said is that everybody understands what the brand is. Therefore, she can turn them loose. And you go out on social media, and you get the message out, but you do it in a way that's consistent with our brand.

58:10So if you're in charge of X, you go out and you do as many tweets as you can possibly do that's consistent with our brand. And whether you're doing it with Snap or Facebook or TikTok, which I mean, it's amazing what she's done on TikTok. She's the TikTok maven. You know, the statistics of the people that know her, have seen her over seven times was amazing. A third, 33 % of all TikTok users have seen her seven times. And she said she basically posts on TikTok almost 100 times a month. And she's out there. And they built that brand without spending a lot of marketing dollars relative to a lot of other companies in a category which is driven by Coke and Pepsi.

58:58And they're spending millions and millions of dollars. And they did go on the Super Bowl, but they went on with the coolest ad that got the most publicity and the most likes. And just, it was amazing what they did in social media because they took it virtual. And so they compounded that Super Bowl ad and probably was maybe one of the best Super Bowl buys in the history of marketing. I love that you make the distinction that the team is empowered to act on what the brand stands for. And she's very clear throughout the whole episode. We are Poppy, we are fun. We sell fun. Poppy is popping off the shelves.

59:36And you kind of alluded to this earlier, but what I love that she has leaned so hard into is that they really sell fun in a soda. And then, oh, by the way, it's better for you than Coke or Pepsi. What is the lesson in not necessarily leading with the features of your product, even though they might be valuable, but instead leading with this kind of brand identity piece that people really can create a connection to? Well, she has a great name and she has a terrific product. Great name exudes fund. The soft drink category is a fun category. But the magic of that is that people did discover on their own that it was a better for you product.

1:00:22And, you know, I think the fact that she sold the benefit of the category and the consumer then realizes exactly what differentiates it on their own was extremely powerful. because, you know, anything that a consumer can convince themselves of is infinitely more powerful than being told something. And so, hey, I get this great tasting product that's fun. And by the way, it's better for me. Not bad. Pretty good formula. I mean, I was pretty surprised the first time I took a sip of poppy that it was actually delicious and amazing. Like, I thought it was going to taste watered down and kind of gross because my friend, it says, you know, prebiotic soda on the can.

1:01:02I'm like, what is a prebiotic soda? It's going to taste nasty. What's cool about that, and I love that story, is that, you know, you've got to have good, healthy debate along the way. And her husband, who's in charge of supplies, chain management, manufacturing, you know, basically said, Allison, you've got to, you know, we've got to make this product taste better. It just doesn't taste good, and people aren't going to drink it if it doesn't taste good. And he said, you've got to put a little sugar in it. She said, no, no, no, no. This is a healthy product. This is vinegar and, you know, all this stuff.

1:01:31It's going to go after gut. What is it? What's the phrase? Gut health. Gut health. Oh, yeah. Oh, boy, I really want to drink that stuff, you know. And he says, put some sugar in it. So I put a little sugar in it, made it taste good, and it flew off the shelves. But they had healthy debate. She was totally against it. But he helped define the brand and take the brand in the right direction. and she freely acknowledges the fact that they wouldn't be as successful if they hadn't made that decision. It certainly sounds like she and her husband act as truth tellers for each other. And we talk a lot about that and how important it is on the show.

1:02:08David, after you talk to Allison and as you're kind of reflecting on this conversation, if there's one thing that a leader listening to this episode should really take away and try to apply to their own life, what do you think it would be? Well, it's interesting. I was really impressed with how confident she was. And people always ask me all the time, what do I look for in the very best leaders or what the best leaders really exude? And I always say they have an uncanny combination of confidence and humility. And I think she's a good example of that. Now it's hard to tell from a one-hour podcast, okay?

1:02:43But she was extremely confident. I mean, she knew her brand. She knew how they differentiated themselves. Why wouldn't you be confident? You just sold a brand for$2 billion. You have enormous success. But she was very humble. She gave so much credit to the team and talked about how, and her husband, for how they got to where they are. And I think when you have that uncanny combination of confidence and humility, which means you don't know everything and you need other people, that's great. And by the way, she really is rooting for Poppy and she's rooting for whatever their next brand is. So she has that third thing that great leaders have too, which is a healthy dissatisfaction with the status quo.

1:03:23I mean, she's got some unfinished business out there. And she's going to try to help Poppy get there because she really believes in her team. And she's also going to probably come up with another new product. And I hope she can go on Shark Tank and sell it. Although she's a Shark Tank consultant now. She's actually asking the questions. And by the way, she has the money now, so she won't have to go on Shark Tank. So I'm pretty impressed with that too. I love it. I love it. I will certainly keep my eyes on Alison Ellsworth and her husband to see what they do next because if it's anything like Poppy, it's going to also be popping off the shelves.

1:03:59I agree. Well, David, thanks again for another excellent episode of How Leaders Lead. And thank you for listening to this week's episode. See you next week.

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