#271: Childhood moments that shaped the world’s top leaders

0:00Hey, everybody. Welcome back to How Leaders Lead and Merry Christmas. Koula, thanks for joining me to host this special episode of How Leaders Lead. And today's show is different. And in this episode, we're going to reflect on some incredible guests we've had on this show this past year. If you're a regular listener, you know that one thing we always ask our guests for is for a story from their childhood that has shaped the kind of leader that they are today. In fact, it's my favorite question. And today, to celebrate the holidays and spending time with the ones you love, we're going to dive back into some of the great stories that have shaped the lives of leaders that we've had on the show this past year.

0:44David Novak:David, I'm so excited to revisit some of these amazing guests and their insights. And you're right, it is such a great time to air an episode like this. It's the holidays. Merry Christmas, by the way. People are spending time with their families, and it really is such a special time to reflect on the year we've had and all the moments we've experienced that have helped us grow. And as you start to slow down for this holiday season, I mean, that may be hard to do, and spend time with your friends and family, let's revisit some of these stories that have shaped some of the world's greatest leaders.

1:14And hopefully, it will remind you that every experience and person you encounter in your life can teach you something about yourself and how you want to show up in the world.

1:25David Novak:In this episode, you'll hear lessons from CEOs, coaches, and leaders, and the moments from their lives that have shaped who they are today. Lessons from their parents, from their mentors, really everything. And we hope that they'll inspire you as you enjoy this season with your loved ones. So let's start here with the story from Jamie Diamond's childhood. Jamie's the chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, and you're going to love this story about his mom. I'll tell you a quick little story about my mother. my mother's what we must be 12 or 13 years old and my parents are having a glass of wine in the living room and my father says my mother something about uh her name was themis which means justice in greek by the way i believe the the goddess of justice uh and he used the word you're acting hysterical and i don't remember those books about the second mystique or the second the second sex and she said i told you not to say that ted he said well when you're acting hysterical.

2:20You're acting hysterical. She said, I told you not to say that. And she said, he said it one more time. And she walked up to him and took her wine in his face and left the room. And he was in shock. And the three boys, we've never seen anything like that. Not in my house. And now, of course, the three of us were like, the revolution has begun because he was, he was the boss. Like just you. And it was like, we're going to overthrow the king. And to his credit, when we all sat down for dinner a little bit later, he came back and said, I just want you all to know your mom was right. So that sounds like the Jamie Dimon I know today.

2:54The other thing about mother, you got to understand, my mother was a Freudian. So my father kind of was, but my father was more like us. You're like, what did they do? But she was like, why did they do it? So I was like, so you end up in these conversations. I don't care why they did it. You know, it's what they did. And so, but because of that, I read a lot of Freud before I finished college. I mean, I read almost all of it before I finished college, just how people think. And of course, a lot of Freud was wrong, but it is a real insight into trying to figure out how the mind works. How much do you think that really helped you as you started working with people?

3:33Quite a bit. You know, I always try to be, I mean, I think both sides, you know, trying to act and do something, but also try to figure out people and their motivations. All those EQ things you talk about. Are they real or authentic? What motivates them? Why treating people respectfully? So, yeah, I do think it helps. In part of your life, you're always thinking how the world works, but also how people work. And as you know, both of those things can be very complicated. And we still spend most of our time trying to figure that stuff out. You know, out of the fact that your dad was in finance and was totally indoctrinated in that world, how did that impact where you headed?

4:16And when you think about your dad, what was the biggest thing you learned from him that you took into the business world? So of the three boys, I was the only one who took an interest in finance. I worked from the summer, basically like doing mailings and answering phones and stuff like that when I was 14 or 15. But I was interested. I always read the papers. I always read the business section. I read the sports section. I read the – so he nurtured that. He didn't make anyone do it. Like I said, my older brother became a physicist. My other brother, an educator, which my parents enormously respected.

4:53But I was interested in that part of the world. And so he'd give me stuff to read. I remember reading a book that Merrill Lynch had done, like how to read an income statement and a balance sheet. I read Graham and Dodd. There's a big thick one, but there's one called The Intelligent Investor. I probably read it when I was 15. And I bought my first stock when I was about 14 or 15. And so my interest was peaked. I wasn't heading to be a stockbroker. In fact, my father didn't want me to. His view, a lot of people are like, the grass is green on the other side. He didn't think it was what I should be doing or stuff like that.

5:27And I didn't head to be a stockbroker. But yeah, of course, it nurtured my interest. And I wrote a couple of papers in college about business and stuff like that. So I was interested. But the interest was more about building something, building something great. I would read the stories about companies that had really done interesting stuff and built things and bought things and made more employees and stuff like that. So yeah, it nurtured it, gave me stuff to read. I remember a very humbling thing. He came home one day a couple of times. I remember Yum Brands. Take a business you think you would understand, like a restaurant, you know, and you can understand what the profits are and that you actually eat there as opposed to like, you know, chips, which is hard for a kid.

6:11But he would, back then, annual reports were much shorter. And he would rip out the page that had the price. And he'd say, read this thing and tell me you would pay for it. And for anyone out there, I don't care how smart you are or how good I think you are, you would be humbled by that exercise.

6:28David Novak:I love how Jamie ties the story back to curiosity and really trying to understand people. His mom was a Freudian thinker, and that shaped the way he thinks about motivation, EQ, and even business strategy. You can see that early upbringing really fueled both his empathy for others and his intellectual curiosity. be. And speaking of early lessons that shape your career path, it's not just about parents. Sometimes it's the mentors, the coaches, or even the sports you play as a kid. Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon, has a perfect example of that from his tennis days. Listen to this clip. A lot of my childhood was dominated by sports.

7:08I played competitive tennis. I played that junior national circuit and I played soccer. And I would say on the tennis side, it was actually kind of a hard way to grow up. It's such an intense sport. It's so individual focused. When you lose, there's nobody to blame but yourself. When you win, there's no one to really celebrate with but yourself. And growing up in the East Coast, I also felt like the parental environment around tennis was very intense. But tennis taught me a lot of lessons that have really helped me later in my life. It taught me what hard work looks like and what happens when you don't work hard.

7:49It taught me really how to be focused in the moment. When you get to competitive levels in tennis, all the matches are won by 15 to 20 points during the match. So you just have to have the ability to be laser focused in the moments that matter. It taught me how to move on. You can play a tennis tournament and you can have the best win of your year at 9 a.m. and then go out at 2 p.m. and play another match and it's all gone. So you have to be able to move on from success really quickly and from failure very quickly. Because the other thing is when you play tennis at a competitive level, you rarely win the tournament.

8:28So it means you actually lose almost every single time that you play. Um, you know, and then, uh, it did teach me as well, um, that you, um, you have to find a way to be good to yourself, even when things go wrong. You know, they're like, we all plan so hard and work so hard and no matter what happens, sometimes it just doesn't work out. And if you're competitive and high, have high standards, you have to live with that. And then you have to, you have to find a way to give yourself a little bit of a break. And, you know, I learned those things, I would say from tennis, which have been helpful.

9:04And, you know, I would say that one lesson I would say from my soccer life, which really involved my dad, who's probably the, you know, the person on this planet that I most respect. And, you know, as a kid, I really kind of worship my dad. I still do. But I remember I went to a soccer game, my younger brothers, and I was driving my dad crazy and just being antsy. And he said, well, why don't you go run a mile around the track? The field was inside of a quarter mile track. And so I went and I ran and I ran it really slowly, but I ran it and I got back and I said to my dad, I said, see, I did it.

9:43And he said, if you're going to run like that, why bother running? Like if you're going to do something, do it. And he doesn't really remember that story, but that story always stuck with me that if you're going to do something, whatever it is, do it and do it to your fullest or don't do it. And so that was, those were good lessons for me.

10:02David Novak:God, tennis is brutal. I mean, you win, you celebrate alone, you lose, you really only have yourself to blame. And Andy talks about how that intensity taught him focus, resilience, and self-accountability. But I also love the story with his dad and soccer. It's a simple but universal lesson. If you're going to do something, you got to give it your all. And that mindset really sticks with you for life. And sometimes those lessons are reinforced in many different ways. Pat Kelsey, the coach of the Louisville Cardinals basketball team, talks about how both family and coaches shaped him, giving him a template for leadership that lasts a lifetime and something that he executes day in and day F?

10:44I'm a big believer that you're a product of your upbringing. I'm really blessed. I'm biased, but I think I have the greatest mom and dad in the history of planet Earth. My father is my hero. My father is my role model. My dad was a Marine. My dad was a college basketball player. My dad's a very successful businessman, father of five, a grandfather of 24. And he just always amazed me from the time I was little. And, you know, my dad was a disciplinarian. You know, he held us accountable at the highest level. He loved us with everything he had. But just the way he went about his life, how he treated people.

11:33He's in the car business, David and you know the car business in general probably doesn't have the best overall reputation if you compare it to all the other you know industries and and look my dad thinks it's one of the most noble professions that there are and the way that he leads the way he leads his sales force the way he leads his dealership my dad sees the world in black and white you know there's There's no gray area. He always chooses the right path, regardless of the consequences. Tell the truth at all times. Just has such, you know, just just has a way about him that's infectious with the people around him.

12:23So I felt like I learned from the best. And then as I've proceeded throughout my career, David, I've been very lucky to work with and work for some just phenomenal human beings. My high school coach, Joe Schoenfeld, who is one of the winningest coaches in Ohio basketball history, was in my wedding. He's one of my best friends. And man, what a phenomenal leader he is. Not the type of coach that raises his voice, but he's the type of leader that you're just so, you don't want to let him down. You know, and he just has that way of getting the most out of people without raising his voice. And then, you know, when I got into the coaching profession, I worked for a man named Skip Prosser, David.

13:07And Skip was the head coach at Xavier University. He was my college coach. And then he became the head coach at Wake Forest University all throughout the 2000s. Was amazingly successful. and tragically passed away in 2007 at the height of his professional career. And, you know, the legacy he leaves is on all of the people that he coached and worked with, like me, that I pay forward the lessons and the ideals that he taught me as I move forward in my career. So it's a long-winded answer to say that I just had great, great role models, whether it was my dad, whether it was Coach Schoenfeld, whether it was Coach Prosser.

13:54I just had men in my life that taught me right from wrong, that taught me how to go about my business and be a professional with class and integrity. And all three of those men were leaders of men, and I learned so much from them.

14:10David Novak:I love this. You see how this combination of a disciplined parent and incredible coaches build someone's character and their leadership style. He really emphasizes the the human side of leadership and how you can inspire people without having to dominate everything. And sometimes it's the lessons from youth sports that really stick with you. Mike Wirth, the CEO of Chevron, has a story about running up a mountain as a team that's kind of like a blueprint for how to push through the limits. You'll love this one. Well, I'll give you maybe two. One of them, I grew up playing sports. I love playing sports, team sports.

14:49The typical U.S. sports, baseball, basketball, football. When I was 10 years old and showed up for my first football practice with this youth football team, we were coached by a guy who, I grew up in Golden, Colorado. He worked for the Coors Brewery. He'd take three weeks off work, his full allotment of vacation for our fall practice before the football season began. And we used to have three-a-day practices. You know, most people hear about two-a-days. We'd actually practice three times a day, early in the morning, kind of in the middle of the day, and then in the afternoon. And he had built blocking sleds and these ropes and chutes, things that look like medieval, you know, systems.

15:31And we're a bunch of 10-year-old kids out there. And he taught us technique and hard work. And he walked around and he was always giving us, you know, these kind of development and leadership inspiring quotes and bromides. Some of them had stolen from people like Vince Lombardi. Some of them were his own. But what would happen by the time those three weeks were up and we showed up to play our first game, we were so well prepared that for the three years I played for this team, not only did we never lose a game, there was only one game where a team scored a point on us. And we didn't have any special talent.

16:10We worked harder than everybody else. And what I learned is you can outwork the other guy. And he taught us to believe in ourselves, to believe in one another. It was a little bit like Ted Lasso before Ted Lasso came along. I love Ted Lasso. I do. I do, too. So I learned I learned, look, leaders can can can keep people focused and they can you know, they can really change the outcomes if you can get a team fully aligned and absolutely committed to a specific goal. Second one I mentioned from my youth was I was in high school and playing high school basketball. And a high school coach who was a basketball coach was an Ironman competitor back in the early days of the Ironman.

16:59This is in the 1970s. And he taught me that the only thing holding me back were the limits I put on myself. And the way I learned this is I broke my thumb. I caught a pass on the tip of my thumb, fractured my thumb. And so I had a cast on it. I couldn't practice. And so he said, well, you're going to stay in shape. So let's go out for a run. So I got for a run one day with him. And in Golden, Colorado, it's a little town at the base of the Rocky Mountains. And there's a big mountain there called Lookout Mountain. And at the top of it is one of like three or four places in the western U.S. where Buffalo Bill allegedly is buried.

17:39and um but there's a it's a windy road up you know several a couple thousand feet to get to the top of the mountain and uh so we're running through town and and i'm going maybe a couple of miles so i'm getting a little winded and i say mr myers where are we going he says we're going to run up lookout mountain and and i said no really where are we going and the next thing i know we're on this road this windy road with switchbacks running all the and there was no way i could get to the top. I said, I can't do this. But, you know, I was 16 years old and he was, I don't know, you know, more than twice my age.

18:12And I wasn't going to admit that a history teacher was going to be able to run farther than I could run and do something I couldn't do. So 45 minutes later, there we are at the top of Lookout Mountain. And he had this habit. He'd run. He had his always tuck his keys in the waistband of his shorts. And so I thought, oh, he must have his car parked up at the top here and we're going to drive back down. And we got up and he took two laps around the parking lot. And then we started running back down the damn mountain. And the only thing harder than running up a mountain is running down one. And I managed to get the run in.

18:46And then I realized I could do that, but I didn't, I didn't think I could do it. And I've used that a lot in life. And one of the most rewarding things I ever, ever am involved in is when I'm working with a team and they accomplished some goal that is way beyond what they envisioned they could do. And I actually see this a lot in people is they don't see the greatness in them. They don't see the opportunity in themselves. And my coach saw in me something that I didn't see in myself. And I try to look for that in people and try to help them achieve things that maybe they didn't think they could.

19:20David Novak:I love this idea from Mike that limitations are often self-imposed. And a great leader sees potential in people that they don't always see themselves. Mike really ties this back to how he looks for that potential in his teams today. You know, some lessons are as much about passion as they are about work ethic. Now, Zach Brown, the CEO of McLaren Racing, shares here about how falling in love with racing as a 10-year-old fueled his approach to business and mentorship. You know, you've got one of the most interesting jobs in the world, you know, running a Formula One team. But I want to start with the fan in you.

19:59You know, just what makes you a fan? What's the moment that you first fell in love with racing? I remember it like it was yesterday, and I carry it with me today as far as not only my fandom for the sport, but how I personally engage with the fans and how I expect our team and drivers to engage with the fans. And that was 1981 Long Beach Grand Prix. I'm from Los Angeles. My mom and dad took my brother and I, and just because it was kind of the circus is in town, they didn't know anything about racing. I didn't know anything about racing, but a 10-year-old boy running around with his eight-year-old brother, the Long Beach Grand Prix, the sound, the speed.

20:40I remember the grandstand I was in. I remember the first racing driver I met. I remember who won, which was Alan Jones, the then current world champion. and some funny tiebacks to it, such as the gentleman, Montoroge, who's unfortunately since passed away, brought me into McLaren, was a sponsor of that racing team that won that day. So all sorts of cool stories. But it was when I was 10 years old and I just fell in love with racing at that point and the whole visceral experience. And I still have the race program to this day, I'm a bit of a hoarder of stuff, always have been. And I was fortunate back when I was racing to hang out with successful people at an early age, people like yourself, because when you're racing cars, you've got CEOs around you.

21:31And so it was a great education for me. And I was always very interested. I had to fund my own racing career through sponsorship. So I needed to understand how business worked so I can understand how I could deliver motor racing sponsorships to build their business. So instead of kind of, you know, I'm an advocate of everyone go to school. That's what I told my kids. They're doing a great job. One's graduated and one's close. That wasn't my background, but I got mine by hanging out with CEOs of these great companies, seeing how they worked, what they did great, where they had some blind spots and learned along the way so much of what to do, what not to do.

22:16So I've kind of developed my own ways of working, if you'd like, but it just comes from years of being around successful individuals. And quite frankly, some unsuccessful individuals to go, oh, I would do that. I wouldn't do that. A lot of what I do today are things that I've seen and I've learned from my mentors. I've got an advisory board of 20 people that I had at my old company that I've always had, which is kind of a build on, surround yourself with great people, whether you work for them, they work for you, or they're mentors. And for us, they're very engaged. And I just learned a lot over the years.

22:58David Novak:It's interesting because Zach doesn't just learn the sport. He learns the environment, how fans behave, how teams interact, the business side of everything. And when you can combine your passion for something with acute observation like that, you really can motivate people to achieve incredible things because you have this global view of what it is you're doing. And that curiosity carried through as he started racing himself. You know, leadership is about showing up authentically as yourself. And this next story from Lindsay Snyder, who's the president of In-N-Out, is an inspiring one about doing just that while leading a family business.

23:34You know, you come up, you know, in a family business, you know, how hard was it for you to really, you know, forge your own identity and be Lindsay, you know, and have everybody see you as the president?

23:47David Novak:It was interesting. um I'm I'm not very tall I'm blonde um and you know there was there was a time there where I was trying to maybe dress the part like I would get some some business suits and and you know dress differently but then I finally just found I'm like you know what this is a family business My uncle wanted to dress up. My dad wanted to dress down. I'm like, I think I'm just going to do what I feel comfortable with. And I'm going to encourage the same. So we kind of brought a more casual work environment to our offices. And it's not the outside, right? It's the inside. And so we want our people to be happy.

24:37David Novak:We want our people to know that we're all going towards the same thing. We want to take care of our customers. and whether we're in the store, handing the customer their order or behind the scenes, making things right for our customer. I just want people to know that they're cared for, that they're loved and that we're giving them this opportunity to do this in a fun way, you know? And so I think I just started kind of connecting my identity really in this world first with God and then from there it just brought me to a place where I didn't really care what people thought like I don't care if you feel like I should dress up I don't feel that I need to try to please everyone um what you see is what you get and hopefully you know you know um what I'm about and that I really um love people and want to hold things to a standard that my my family would be proud.