#273: Tony Capuano, President & CEO, Marriott International – Success is never final

24:07David Novak:You know, Marriott purchased Starwood, I believe, in 2016. That's one of the biggest deals ever in hospitality. What did you learn from that whole experience as a leader? Yeah, a lot of things. But again, it starts in some ways with Mr. Marriott. So Arnie was CEO at the time. I was head of global development at the time. And, you know, the deal presented itself. Arnie and I sat on a board called IREFAC, which is the, I think it stands for Industry Real Estate Finance Advisory Council of the AH &LA. And we were at an IREFAC meeting in New York and the interim CEO of Starwood pulled us aside at the break and said, I know you passed, but are you sure you don't want to jump in?

24:55And when we had passed, Starwood's stock traded at a pretty significant premium to Marriott's stock. In the interim, after we passed, the stocks had inverted and the economics looked a bit more accretive and more compelling. And Arnie's response was, well, maybe, but aren't we too late? And he said, no, but you didn't need to move quickly. And so we spent a bunch of time talking about it. We had the teams do some work. and Arnie went to Mr. Marriott on a Friday and said, this opportunity exists, but I don't want you to give me an opinion. I want to give you one sheet of paper that summarizes the opportunity and I don't want you to call me until Monday.

25:38And you could tell Mr. Marriott's initial reaction was, the company's doing great. We're at an all-time high in the stock price. The investment community loves us. Why would we rock the boat? That was his feeling on Friday. So then Monday, he came back in and he sat with us and he said, you ought to go after it. And I think everybody was a little stunned. And he said, on Friday, I realized I had fallen into the trap that I advise all of you to avoid. And that's the trap of complacency. We're doing fine. Why rock the boat? But this has the potential to be a transformational transaction. you ought to do the work and see if it makes sense.

26:22And so that was probably the biggest lesson I learned was even an iconic leader like Bill Marriott understood the risks of complacency.

26:34David Novak:And now, speaking of attacking complacency, what's the biggest change that you're driving inside the company? There's a few. I would say, number one, we're in the midst of the most significant technology transformation we've ever undertaken in our history. We're replatforming our three biggest systems, our reservation system, our property management system, and our loyalty platform. And I think technology is table stakes for most companies, certainly for companies in the travel vertical. But it also is a bit of an interesting riddle because thankfully we've all chosen careers in the human connection business, right?

27:18You're never going to have a hotel full of robots, at least not a successful one, I don't think. We are in the business of connecting people through the power of travel. And so technology has the potential to be an enabler of that, right? If you work for us as a front desk agent and I give you technology tools that create 90 seconds of incremental capacity where you don't have to be staring at a screen, and instead you can pick up on the visual and verbal cues of that weary traveler who's shown up at the front desk at 11 o 'clock at night, and based on those cues do some things to enhance their travel experience, then that's a massive win for us.

28:03But we've got to have the right technology tools to create that capacity. And what else are you driving? Well, I think next I'd probably go to the Bonvoy loyalty program. You talked about that at the outset. We're about 260 million members and growing rapidly. If you look at these loyalty platforms across travel, whether those are hotel platforms, airline platforms, they all started in a very similar sort of rudimentary form. You enrolled in the platform. You stayed with us. You earned points for those stays. You accumulated those points. And eventually you redeemed those points for a future stay.

28:48And while that facet of the loyalty platform is still foundational to what we do, shame on us if we don't evolve that in a really significant way. That rudimentary early platform I described, our relationship with our members was very transactional. And you only had occasion to go to the website or now the app if you wanted to conduct a transaction. Today, through content, through partnerships that we've forged, we have the opportunity to unlock this almost limitless world of experiences. Also, given the scale of our geographic footprint and the breadth of our brand portfolio, it's really the connective tissue that pulls together that whole portfolio and allows our members to explore what's possible with a company that's approaching 10 ,000 hotels in 143 countries and territories across 40 brands to really help them understand everything they could desire in the world of travel.

29:57they can find within the framework of Marriott Bonvoi.

30:01David Novak:You know, when you're trying to, you know, develop new technology platforms and take, you know, a loyalty program to the next level, you got to take a lot of people with you as a leader. You know, what's your approach to taking people with you when you face these new challenges and opportunities? Yeah, although I might invert your question a little bit, I think in the best of ways, they're taking me along, right? They understand our overarching macro objectives as an enterprise, but I'm a big proponent of leaning on subject matter expertise. So I think about loyalty. David Fleck, who interestingly came as part of the Starwood transaction, he ran SPG for them.

30:46He now runs our loyalty platforms. He's got such a deep, deep expertise. I can tell him some of the overarching objectives, but he's really going to teach me and bring me along on the journey that Bonvoy has started. And I think that's true across every facet of our business. And, you know, it sounds like you have a tremendous respect for others. I do. We have remarkable leaders. And some of that, I think, I mean, I can thank all the leaders that preceded me and their focus. when you think about the company's five core values. The first one is putting people first. And we're an asset-like company.

31:28Of our 9 ,700 hotels, I think we own about 20 and I'm anxious to sell those. And so if you really are asset-like in terms of physical hotel assets, what are your most valuable assets? The equity in our brands, the value of our contracts and our people. And so our people are so valuable And having these incredibly passionate, thoughtful, forward-looking leaders is really what's going to drive the company's success into that second century.

32:00David Novak:And, you know, speaking of culture, and you have a great one. I mean, you have one of the most trusted brands in the world. What's one behavior you want to see from every Marriott associate, no matter where they're working at? One, they need to believe in and embrace those five core values that our founders built this company on 100 years ago. But just as importantly, the way I talk about core values, those are etched in a block of granite. Our core values are never going to change. However, sometimes I think people sort of exchange freely core values and culture, and I find them to be quite different.

32:39Culture is built on those core values. But while the core values are etched in granite, the culture is a living, breathing entity that needs to evolve and needs to be nurtured. The day we are self-satisfied with the health of our culture, I worry about our future. Every day we've got to think, and this goes to your specific question, I want every associate to be thinking about what they can do to contribute by their actions to the health of the company's culture.

33:09David Novak:You obviously are very focused on your guests. You know, do you have a guest experience story you go back to because it perfectly captures what hospitality looks like when it's done right? I got a note from a guest once. There had been a massive snowstorm in a city where that's rare. And she was staying at a courtyard, and she realized she didn't have enough medication to last her the next few days. The roads hadn't been plowed. The ability to get a cab or an Uber or anything was not available. And she was genuinely concerned about her well-being. She called down to the front desk and said, do you have anybody that you know that's got access to four-wheel drive that maybe could figure out a way to get there?

33:58And this young front desk clerk said, let me work on it. And not because somebody told him, but because he believes in providing warm, genuine care to our guests. He walked about two miles in the snow and picked up her prescription and brought it back. Not for accolades, not for awards, but because he thought it was the right thing to do. And then similarly, I had a father reach out to me and he said, I've done a little research. I know you have a daughter. I want to tell you a story. And he had a daughter that had survived cancer. But as a result of her cancer treatment, she had to have one of her legs amputated.

34:38And so she was cancer free. She got to ring the bell. And to celebrate as a family, they decided to take her to New York for the first time. And she wanted to see a Broadway show. She wanted to eat a slice of New York pizza. She wanted to see the Statue of Liberty, all these things. And so the family saved up. They booked one of our hotels. And he innocently called the hotel just to explain why they were coming and to say, you know, I don't need any favors. Just if there's anything available, we would love a view of Times Square. And so again, a front desk manager heard this. And on his own accord, they arranged transportation for her.

35:20when she arrived. There was a red carpet to the car. All the hotel's associates were there to recognize and applaud her arrival. They arranged for Broadway tickets. They arranged for pizza delivery. You know, they just wanted to make sure she had a special experience. But when you asked the question, I was hesitant to pick any because I hear hundreds of these stories every day. I'm glad I asked the question because I love hearing stories like that. Yeah, me too. That's amazing. I've had some folks, both investors and media, accuse me of being the eternal optimist. And they say, gosh, you have so many headwinds and sociopolitical and macroeconomic challenges that make your business tough to navigate.

36:06Why are you such an optimist? And I say, maybe I'm naturally an optimist. But what really makes me optimistic is spending time in our hotels around the world, spending time with our frontline associates, seeing how passionate they are about taking care of our guests and taking care of each other. And when you see that thousands and thousands of times every year, it's really hard not to be optimistic.

36:31David Novak:You know, it's interesting because when I was CEO, I had the great blessing to be able to meet with Warren Buffett many times. And, you know, I'd never worked in the investor community. And I asked him, I said, what advice would you give me? He said, well, you love your brands, don't you? You're really optimistic and you love your brands. And I said, yeah, I do. And he said, do you ever say anything? Do you ever tell investors what could go wrong? And I said, no, I'm always talking about, you know, the positive. He says, you know, you need to start talking about the things that could go wrong.

37:05David Novak:People will respect you more for it because you at least acknowledge what might happen, even though you're an optimist. What's your response to that? He's right, of course. You know, I'm never going to argue with Warren Buffett. And I think, you know, it'd be interesting for you to talk to our investors. But if you listen to our earnings calls, I do think we get a lot of appropriate credit for being as transparent and candid as we can about the macroeconomic challenges that both we and our owner community have, the macroeconomic pressure that the lower end of household income households are feeling and the impact that could have on travel, some of the challenges with the construction cost environment, the interest rate environment, the labor market.

37:55I think we're quite realistic and candid. And then you layer in some of the sociopolitical challenges that we have to navigate given the breadth of our geographic footprint. I think you absolutely have to be candid and transparent with all of your stakeholders about the realities of the environment that you find yourself doing business. But the optimism is not sort of manufactured. You know, I am very confident because of the reasons I described in our company's ability to navigate those challenges. And part of that confidence comes from the fact that we're nearly 100 years old. You know, you talk to Bill Marriott or Arnie, their ability to navigate these extraordinary challenges and come out thriving feeds my optimism about the long-term future of this company and this sector.

38:50David Novak:Yeah, that's great. And you've obviously done a great job communicating your story to Wall Street and the investors. Your stock has really done fantastic the past few years. And I have to tell you, once I started talking about some of the downsides with our business, I did gain more credibility. And I think you've got to navigate the optimism and also the realities of the tough things that you face. Well, and I also think for our business in particular, all of us gladly, willingly chose an industry that by its nature is cyclical. I would love to tell you every year is going to be fantastic. But that's just not realistic, right?

39:31So much of our business is driven by how GDP is trending around the world. So much of our business is driven by the mindset of the consumer and where consumer confidence is. I talked about this with a group of investors the other day. They asked me, you know, how do you feel about the relatively muted performance in the US, your biggest market. And I said, well, it's tracking relatively well with GDP. But I would say to you, you know, I think it was three or four months ago, the U.S. hit a 50-year low in consumer confidence. And if you had told me a year or two ago that statistic, I'm not sure even I would have predicted the business would be performing as well as it is.

40:17David Novak:You have a lot of competition, obviously, whether you have traditional rivals like Hilton and Hyatt or disruptors like an Airbnb. What's your philosophy for staying competitive across such different types of players? It starts with doing what we do as well as we can, right? Making sure we're aligning with the right owners. They are being good, thoughtful stewards of the assets, making sure we're populating those hotels with amazing associates who embrace our core values and culture, being laser focused on the guests, making sure we anticipate and at a minimum meet, hopefully exceed their needs for every reason they travel.

41:07but we can't be satisfied comparing ourselves to ourselves, right? We've got to be aware of the point that you made so well. It is a highly competitive environment. There are traditional competitors, there are intermediaries, there are disruptors, and we've got to be painfully aware of what that competitive landscape looks like. And we've got to do our best to peer around the corner. What are our guests going to expect in the future? What are our associates going to expect in the future? And what might our competitors do in the future? And try to do everything we can to stay at least one or two steps ahead.

41:47David Novak:You know, when you peer around that corner and you look at the future of travel, Tony, what's the most exciting thing you see coming? And what's your personal leadership challenge you have to stay ahead of it? Yeah, I think the most exciting thing for me, we have these amazing partnerships with credit card partners, American Express and JPMorgan Chase. And on the long list of benefits of those partnerships, we get extraordinary data in real time around how consumer discretionary spend is evolving. If you looked at that data prior to the pandemic, you had the younger demographics already starting to shift their spending away from hard goods towards travel and experiences.

42:33If you look at that data today, the pandemic essentially accelerated that trend across every demographic. And there had been industry analysts that thought that was going to be a one-year revenge travel phenomenon. But here we are several years into the recovery. And if anything, that trend is accelerating. And so my personal view is there has been a fundamental shift in how consumers think about prioritizing their discretionary spend. And I am certainly not a sociologist, but my sense is while folks were locked down, they weren't buying as many shoes, handbags, watches, et cetera, and they didn't miss it as much.

43:21But boy, did they miss exploring the world. Boy, did they miss traveling to see friends and family, to explore new places, to immerse themselves in new cultures. And they are hell-bent on ensuring they don't miss that opportunity this time. And so this shift and this prioritization to exploring the world gives me tremendous enthusiasm about the long-term future of the sector and certainly for Merriam. In terms of my mindset, it's really about making sure we are listening to the constituents we serve every day. I have often said in some ways the challenge for Marriott leaders is every day, figuratively, when we show up at work, there's this Rubik's Cube on our desk.

44:10Because every decision of consequence that we make, we've got to look at through the lens of those three constituents we serve. How will it impact our associates? How will it impact our guests? And how will it impact our owners? And to be candid, sometimes what they want and need is at opposite ends of the spectrum. So trying to strike the right balance to meet the needs and expectations of each of those incredibly valuable, critical constituents is the most important thing that we've got to make sure our leaders are focusing their efforts on.

44:45David Novak:Tony, when I look back at my career, I made a ton of mistakes as a CEO. You know, has there been any decision you made so far that you wish you could take another swing at? Yeah, I'm sure there's a thousand of them, big and small. I'm not one that necessarily you need to learn from mistakes you made, but I'm not sure I want to kind of dwell on them. I want to continue to look forward. The way I think about it a little bit, my family is Italian. I spend as much time as I can in Italy. And the first time I rented a car there, the guy at the car rental, he said, have you driven in Italy before? And I said, no.

45:26And he said, well, it's easy. He said, let me just give you one lesson. He said, you see these side view and rear view mirror? Ignore those. Just look forward. You know, don't look behind you. Don't look to the side. Just stay focused on where you're headed. and it was good advice for driving in Italy, but I think it's good advice for how our leaders should think about driving the business forward.

45:49David Novak:I love it. You know, this has been a lot of fun and I want to have some more and I have a lightning round of questions. Great, fire away. Are you ready for this? Okay, what are the three words that best describe you? Optimistic, passionate, and humble. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Abraham Lincoln. What's your biggest pet peeve? People showing up late for meetings. Who would play you in a movie? Whoever drew the short straw. What's a belief about travel you've changed your mind on in the last three years? How extraordinary hotel food and beverage can be.

46:23When was your last trip to Italy? Just two months ago, I think, for the WTTC conference in Rome. What's the best Italian food that America hasn't mastered yet? Tortellini ambroto from Bologna.

46:38David Novak:What's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing to do with work? Whether we'll ever make a manned spacecraft, we'll ever make it to Mars. What's the one thing you do just for you? Probably just read. I love to read physical books. Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession? Probably the St. Christopher medal my grandmother gave me. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Either the NFL Network or ESPN. What's something about you few people would know? I really wanted to be a pilot in the Navy, and I was too short to get accepted into flight school.

47:19What's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss? I have a set of websites that I read every morning, no matter how early I have to get up. Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, ESPN.com, and TMZ. so I can pretend to be relevant.

47:41David Novak:We're out of the lightning round, Tony. Great job. That's fantastic. I got a few more questions and I'll let you go. You and your wife live in Potomac and you've built a great life there. You know, how do you lead it at home? Yeah, well, I am very fortunate. My wife and my daughter, for as long as they've known me, I've traveled like this. They are extraordinarily supportive. They love travel. My daughter followed suit and went to Cornell Hotel School. She's in the industry, although she refuses to work for us. She wants to pave her own way. But I think they both share my passion for travel. They share my passion for hospitality.

48:22And one of the things we talk about often, because we spend so much time in Italy, every time I come back, the thing I'm most taken with, and there are other cultures, to be sure, that are like this, But the Italians really embrace and celebrate careers or celebrate the dignity of careers in the service of others. You know, we go to the same restaurants and we have waiters that have been there 30, 40, 50 years. It's their chosen career. It's not a part-time job while they look for a, quote, real job. There is a real celebration of service careers in Italy. And I think my family all loves and appreciates that idea.

49:06David Novak:You obviously have a great deal of respect for the front line. And you told the dishwasher story earlier. You started out as a pot washer. How do you stay in touch with the front line today? Well, somebody asked me the other day, what's the best part of the CEO job? And I said, you know, early in my career when I was in development, I certainly spent a lot of time in our hotels. but it was often sprinting to a meeting room to negotiate a deal. Today, I get to tour hundreds and hundreds of hotels and shake thousands and thousands of hands of our frontline associates and just thank them. Thank them for the amazing work they do.

49:46Thank them for taking such great care of our guests. Thank them for taking such great care of each other. Thank them for representing the company so well. That's the best part of my job. I love it.

49:57David Novak:You know, that's the high touch part of the job. No question about it. And here we are now. You talked about the need to lead on the technological front. Artificial intelligence is the buzzword for everything, not just the buzzword. I mean, everybody's into it. How is AI going to impact Marriott? And two part question. And how are you as a leader preparing yourself to lead during this revolution? Yeah, so maybe I'll take the second one first because that's a little easier. I mentioned in response to one of your earlier questions, this need for leaders to have this natural intellectual curiosity.

50:35I'm consuming as much as I can about AI. I'm reading as much as I can. A few of my leaders and I spent a good week in Silicon Valley meeting with some of the most important thought leaders. Some of the conferences I attend, I choose to attend just because some of the thought leaders around AI are there presenting, and I want to hear their perspective. So it's really, I'm just in the learning phase. I'm trying to be as much of an AI sponge as I can. In terms of how it will affect our business, I think that story remains to be told. I am a firm believer AI is going to impact every business, every industry in unique ways.

51:17Ours, again, will be a bit more unique because we've got to retain that human connection, that human touch. I think our scale makes AI particularly relevant. I traveled to one of our big customer engagement centers in Cork, Ireland, not long ago. And as part of that visit, we have 500 or 600 agents there. I put on a headset for two hours just to listen to the nature of the calls that come in. And that's a place we're already using AI. But imagine being an agent in Cork, Ireland, and a very thoughtful guest calls with very specific needs in terms of the type of destination they want, the type of rooms they need, the types of food and beverage they enjoy.

52:02Imagine trying to navigate a nearly 10 ,000 hotel portfolio manually, right? AI is critical to be able to navigate that in a split second so that we can be responsive to that guest's needs. You think about functions like the traditional concierge. I think AI can be highly impactful. You think about some of the processes that have historically been manual behind the door of the front desk, whether that's the rooming assignments that are prepared at night, whether that's night audit function. So there are clearly lots of touch points in our business, and we're exploring how we can incorporate AI, not simply to eliminate jobs, but again, to create capacity for many of our frontline associates to be more engaged with our guests.

52:53David Novak:You know, one of your core principles, I believe at Marriott, is that success is never final. You know, how do you drive that in your organization? What do you keep front and center in your own leadership to make sure that you don't fall trapped to, you know, being complacent? Yeah, I talk about the dangers of complacency almost every day. it is hard to lead from the front right we're the the world's largest lodging company we have these these extraordinary category leading brands we have the industry's largest loyalty platform these are all wonderful things and none of them matter if we're ever satisfied with any of them So whether we use the words of our founders, success is never final, whether we continue to warn our leaders about the risks of complacency, I think waking up every day and trying to be incrementally better than the day before is the key to our success.

54:00It's the key to success for our sector. It's the key to success to almost any business. You've got to aspire to get better each and every day.

54:09David Novak:You know, I always felt that the feel that the best thing about business is the unfinished business. You know, what do you see your unfinished business? Well, you know, it's funny. When I ran development, the question I got most often is, what's the company's development strategy? And in many ways, I thought then and I think now, it's the easiest question to answer. I want to make sure I have the right product everywhere you want to go for every trip purpose. Because if I succeed in that lofty aspiration, there's no need to ever leave the Bonvoy ecosystem. And that drives a lot of the strategy.

54:49You know, when we launched Marriott Homes and Villas, the question I got all the time was, are you trying to go head to head with Airbnb? I said, absolutely not. I have tremendous respect for Brian Chesky and what his organization has created. But what we hear from our customers is for a very specific trip purpose. think a multi-generational vacation. A multi-bedroom luxury home better fit their needs. Well, if they can't find that within the Marriott ecosystem, then they have no choice but to go to the welcoming arms of our competitors. We heard from our luxury guests we'd really like a luxury experience at sea.

55:30That in many ways was the catalyst to the launch of the Ritz-Carlton yacht collection. And so I just think we've got to continue to be driven by that simple idea. We want to make sure any travel needs you have, you can find within that ecosystem.

55:47David Novak:All right. That's an exciting vision you have there. Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? Be humble. And how do you do that? I'm going to ask you how you do it because here you are. You're leading the largest hospitality holiday business in the world. How do you stay grounded? You have all these associates, you walk in, you might want to come in unannounced and have people not know who you are, but they know who you are. How do you stay grounded? I remind myself every day how much more they know than I do. I'll give you one quick story.

56:21I was in China for the grand opening of our 600th hotel in China. And we had a great grand opening event. And afterwards, I did a town hall for about a thousand of our associates. And I really had not planned, you know, I had a few jotted, a few bullet points jotted down for my remarks, and this wasn't part of it. But I got on that stage and I'm looking out at a thousand associates. And I said to them, there aren't a thousand people walking planet earth that know more about developing, staffing, opening, operating hotels in greater China than the thousand people sitting in this room. You are our subject matter experts.

57:04You know, I'm available to help you. I can make sure you understand our overarching strategy. But boy, I hope I'm not making many of those decisions because I have this extraordinary pool of subject matter expertise here. And that's how I feel when I walk through every one of these hotels, right? I get out of the car and I meet a doorman. He knows more about where to catch a cab, where the best Irish pub is, you know, where to get a newspaper, all those things than I could ever know. He's the subject matter expert, right? And if you remind yourself of that, it's really easy to be humble. Everyone has their own sort of bucket of subject matter expertise, and it's fantastic.

57:46David Novak:Well, Tony, you're obviously the subject matter expert on how to be a great CEO. I mean, you, you know, you care about people. I'm very much a work in progress. I told Bill Marriott, I would try to get one degree better every day. I got a long way to go. Well, you're doing well. You're doing well. Let's just say that. And I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on How Leaders Lead and sharing your insights and stories. Just a lot of fun. Anytime. Thank you so much for having me. And thanks for giving me a little forum to talk about our incredible associates around the world. All right.

58:19David Novak:Great.

58:26David Novak:David, Tony's got me really wanting some Italian food. Well, I thought you were going to say he's really wanting you to stay at a Marriott. I want to stay at a Marriott in Italy while eating Italian food at that restaurant that he talked about that's in Bologna. And, you know, you probably took his recommendation that he made for the best bed. Absolutely. Absolutely, I did. I love this episode, David, and we're going to get into some of the key ideas that Tony shared so that our listeners can have something really practical to take away from this episode. Of course, one of the core values, as we heard Tony talk about a lot at Marriott, is that success is never final.

59:03David Novak:And he talks a lot about fighting complacency. And I know, David, that you've said many times that every leader should have a healthy dissatisfaction with the status quo. So kind of that same idea of fighting complacency. What are some of the things that you do personally, David, to fight complacency? And what advice can you give others on how to do the same? Well, I think, you know, I pick up something that I know Jamie Dimon, Jamie Morgan Chase did all the time is he benchmarks competition, not only internally, but externally, you know, in different categories of who's the best at processing orders or whatever.

59:39David Novak:OK, and, you know, he tries to find people that are doing something better than you and then let the people know that this is, this is, we gotta, we gotta up our game to get to that level. I think that's great. I think the, the, the biggest thing I think that really drives finding complacency is the voice of the customer. I think you just gotta be all over the voice of the customer and, you know, you gotta keep learning on what you need to do to get better and how you can improve and, you know, how can you get better execution or whatever, but just keep bringing that voice of the customer back to you.

1:00:15David Novak:And, and then, you know, uh, never get intoxicated by your financial performance. Okay. Yeah. It's great that you you've done well, get focused on, get intoxicated with how you got there. Okay. In other words, if you're a CEO, don't get so excited about your stock price, get, get, get excited about, you know, what it takes to build that stock price. And that gets people, if you want to keep growing, you got to keep growing. And I think that's very important. So you can't really reap the rewards without growth. And so I think as a leader, you got to just keep telling everybody that this is what we do.

1:00:54David Novak:This is why we get paid. We get paid to grow the business. And you can't grow the business by staying the same. Just did a podcast with Chuck Robbins, the Cisco CEO. You know, they dominate, you know, across the board and the internet services and, you know, incredible leader. But he said he had somebody in his company say that, you know, in six months, they'll be as good as competition. And he goes, what makes you think that? You know, is competition going to stand still for six months, you know, while you catch up? But I think it's that mindset of having a healthy dissatisfaction with the status quo, which is great.

1:01:32David Novak:And healthy by that, I mean, it's like, hey, you know, at least celebrate the success that you have, but don't be, you know, satisfied with it. You know, I always say, and I love this line, and I don't know if it's my line or not, because I don't know where a lot of these things come from. We'll give you credit for today. But they come out of my mouth. But it's the best thing about business is the unfinished business. And the best thing you need to do as leaders just to keep identifying them. What haven't you done? He talks a lot about the importance of that intellectual curiosity. and he also is on the road 200, 250 days a year.

1:02:05David Novak:So he's the leader that I think, you know, knows the importance of the voice of the customer and going there first for ideas on how to innovate and continue to get better. David, another story that I loved from the episode, Tony tells it was early in his career and he was trying to get this deal done. And Mr. Marriott calls him and says, hey, back off this deal. They say you're being too aggressive. Like, let's just get it done in the way that works for them. And Tony stuck to his guns and kept pushing forward and got the deal done and all of the points in the deal that he wanted to get done. And Mr.

1:02:42David Novak:Marriott then goes on to actually thank Tony for not listening to his advice, but rather trusting his gut and doing what was best for the business. So I love the story. It's a younger leader telling the founder of the business, hey, I think that my gut is right here and I'm going to go with it. For leaders listening that might be in a similar position, how would you advise them on how they should handle situations like that, where their gut is telling them one thing that might be different from the boss? I think this is a truism that works every single time, Kula. Do the right things and the right things happen.

1:03:17David Novak:And what Tony did there was he did what he thought was right and then the right things happen. Bill Marriott sends him a note and says, hey, you know what? I was very satisfied with all the progress we were making. And he admitted that he maybe had too much satisfaction with the status quo and thanked him for pointing out that the way they had been successful was by challenging convention and doing things different. And I love that story for two points. Number one, you know, do the right things, the right things happen. And that's what Tony did. And then I also love the fact that Mr. Marriott really pointed out the fact that maybe he had gotten a little bit complacent.

1:03:56David Novak:And as leaders, we've got to have people around us that are always pushing us forward. And Tony obviously does that at Marriott and did that for Mr. Marriott. And that's why he's the CEO. He did it enough times where it became sort of a trait that said, hey, if we follow this guy, good things are going to happen. I love all the stories he tells about Mr. Marriott. He's still such an integral part of the business. David, as we wrap up this debrief, if there's one thing about Tony that you are really taking away from this conversation and going to incorporate into your life, what is that thing? Well, first of all, you know, Tony's very accomplished.

1:04:32David Novak:The company's done extremely well. He's made lots of acquisitions. He's trying to own basically the world of rooms. You know, they're different kind of hotels. And, you know, he's trying to compete in every aspect of the business. And he's done extremely well. You know, so he's accomplished their stocks really doing great because of the things, the wins that he's put up on the board. But the thing that I took away the most there was just how much reverence he gave Mr. Marriott. I love the fact that Marriott has an icon. It's Mr. Marriott and the Marriott family. And he gave, you know, Mr. Marriott the cred that he deserves.

1:05:14David Novak:And that's the shout out, that genuine shout out, that genuine respect that he had for Mr. Marriott really, really, really impressed me. You know, too many times leaders want to be in control. And that means they've got to wipe out the past. They've got to be the new sheriff in town. They can't celebrate the person that helped build the company or get the company to where it is. I think whenever you can give homage to someone, you know, for the work that they've done that allows you to have the opportunity that you have, then, you know, I think that's great. You know, tonight I'm having dinner, for example, with the current CEO of Yum Brands and the last CEO of Yum Brands.

1:06:04David Novak:You know, there will be three Yum Brand CEOs going to Lyman Cellos tonight here. And, you know, but, you know, they go out of their way to give homage to me, not because I'm anything special, but because of the culture that we build at Yum Brands. And, you know, I think that's important, not because of the recognition I get, but because it's the culture that I want to see sustained at Young Brands that I think is going to help them grow results and put people capability first. And that's what really matters. And that's what Tony's trying to do with Mr. Marriott. Mr. Marriott put the culture in place, put the principles in place, and he's sustaining it.

1:06:45David Novak:But he's not sustaining it exactly the way that Mr. Marriott did it. He's raising the bar in many different ways and doing things differently, whether it's developing new approaches to AI and customer satisfaction. He's doing things that Mr. Marriott never did. OK, and that's what you got to do. Keep finding that unfinished business, turning over new leaves. And yeah, that's what I know the CEOs at Young Brands are doing as well. I'm history and they're writing new history. Well, you've certainly cemented your name in the history of Yombrans. That dinner is going to be so special. I can't wait to hear the report on what you guys talk about.

1:07:21David Novak:Well, I'll tell you, I hope that the Linguinean clams are good. You love the Linguinean clams. I have no doubt. They will be good. David, that does it for this week's episode of How Leaders Lead. Thank you so much for tuning in, and we will see you next week.

1:07:43you