#280: Blake Mycoskie, Founder, TOMS Shoes and ENOUGH – Stay connected to your why

25:09I think it goes back to that shared why. Like bringing people in that are there for the right reasons. You know, they're not there because this is the next best thing on their resume. They're not there because it's all about the money. They're not there because, you know, this is a hot company and, you know, whatever. Like it's they're there because they really believe in the mission and the company has a mission that is worth believing in. And I think that is at least in the businesses I've started really having people connected and there for the why I think is great. And then the other thing as a leader, I think it's like not take yourself too seriously.

25:50always be humble, always be curious, you know, create the least amount of kind of, you know, kind of hierarchical structures possible. I mean, those are just the things that have really worked for me. Hello, friends. I hope you are loving this conversation between David and Blake. Be sure to stay tuned to the very end of the episode where David and I break down his conversation with Blake and offer some real tangible ways that you can take what you've learned from the episode and apply it to your leadership and to your life. Stay tuned to the very end and I will see you soon. You know, eventually you took Tom's away from the one-on-one model, but you've also used that one-on-one model in other categories.

26:35How do you make that decision? Like you did in your eyewear business, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, it's really a simple decision. I mean, I started Tom's not as a business. It was actually just called a project. and the project was based on, I wanted to help kids get shoes. And then as I grew the business, I realized, oh, wow, this, this one for one model is actually like really works because it's easy to understand. It's, it's, you know, we can build the cost of it into the, into the product. You know, people love the directness of it. And so, yes, when we did, we launched Tom's Eyewear and, and we did the same thing.

27:11We provided an eye surgery or reading glasses to someone who needed them when you bought the eyewear. So I think the one-for-one model really worked well. It doesn't work in all businesses, but it worked really well for Tom's. But how'd you get the courage to pivot from the very thing that you were known for? Because you stopped it at Tom's. No, I didn't stop it. When I sold the company, they stopped it. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's a very important distinction there. Thank you very much for clarifying that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what'd you think? Here you are, the founder of this. When you heard that.

27:41Yeah, I was not happy. What did you think? Yeah? I was not happy. I imagine you weren't really consulted on that issue. No, I was not. Well, how'd you deal with that? I mean, you know, I mean, it's kind of like, look, you know, I have an 8 and 11-year-old right now, and I'm doing everything I can to make them into the most amazing human beings possible. And someday, they're going to leave my house, and they're going to go out, they're going to make their own decisions. and I'm going to love them no matter what. And some decisions they'll make I'll agree with and some I won't agree with, but I'll continue to be their cheerleader.

28:18And that's what I always say about Tom's. I'm Tom's biggest cheerleader. I think the company is still doing great work. They're doing it differently. They're not doing it with the one-for-one model that I created, but they're still doing a lot of good in the world. And so I'm cheering them on. So, you know, you sell this huge business, you know, that's most time when people take the victory lap, You go on the big cruise. You do something. I mean, how did it impact you? I mean, as an individual, having that kind of success and then selling what you basically, it was your baby. The reality is I didn't do very well.

28:54First off, I was not prepared for it. I didn't understand that when I sold it, I would really lose a sense of purpose. I also lost my community because all my friends still worked at Tom's. I also decided at the same time to move to Jackson Hole because I love snowboarding. And I thought now that I'm, quote, retired, I can snowboard every day. And it gets dark at 5 p.m. in Jackson Hole half the year. And that wasn't good for me. And I started to get depressed. And I'd never been depressed, you know, really a day in my life. And I actually think the depression started a little bit before I sold the company.

29:26I think that kind of led to me, you know, not feeling as connected to the brand that led to it. But yeah, you know, and then after I got depressed, what was interesting is, and I think this isn't probably just, you know, unique to me, is I was, I never had these horrible feelings. And I tried to do everything I could to make them go away. And I had a lot of money. So I started throwing money at it. So I built this crazy house. You know, I went on all the crazy trips. I moved my family from Jackson Hole to Costa Rica. You know, I got divorced. I got married. I got divorced again. Like I made a huge mess of my life because I was doing anything to frankly not feel the way that I was feeling.

30:09What I really recognized was underneath all of it. And this is what I came to after lots of therapy was that there was this feeling that I have never been enough and that I was never enough. And I unfortunately had to look at all of my actions in my life. And I saw that my life wasn't as much a success story as my life was like a strategy. And the strategy was doing all these things to earn my worth because I didn't believe that I had it intrinsically. And that started what became like a seven-year period of a really intense depression. Wow. You think that that sense of not having enough is what was one of the key drivers of your success in business?

30:56I mean, you mentioned that your college, lack of a college education put the, had a chip on your shoulder. I mean, you know, how much did that drive you? I do think, I do think it drove me. And at the same time, I don't think it was necessary for my success. I think that, you know, as I've learned more about, you know, me struggling with this for so long is I think that it does create a pressure that can drive you. But it also is at a huge cost. And I think the reality is now, as I think about building something where I'm building it from a place of wholeness, I'm actually having a lot more fun.

31:33And I think I'm being just as effective. So I think it is a little bit of a misnomer about the fact that you kind of need that drive in order to be successful. Yes, you need drive. But that level of pressure I was putting on myself just wasn't healthy. You know, what advice would you give to other leaders on how to pick up the signs maybe that you're starting to have some, you know, mental health issues and, you know, who might be quietly struggling inside, but just aren't really dealing with it? Yeah, I think that there's some pretty telltale signs. I mean, number one is I think the things that you used to love and that you used to have joy just aren't providing that to you anymore.

32:15So that could be golf. If you're a golfer, surfing, that was it for me. You know, time with friends, you know, even going to your favorite restaurants. months, like if just if all this, if not all of a sudden, but if you start to feel the things that depend that consistently gave you joy and happiness are no longer doing so, that might be a sign that you're starting to slip into a depression. You know, for some people, it's either they stop eating completely or they overeat all the time. You know, it's usually one or the other. You know, I didn't have as much of an appetite myself. And then also the biggest thing is, and this is what unfortunately leads to, you know, these horrible, you know, rates of suicide in our country is you really isolate, you know, because you're ashamed, especially if you're successful.

32:58I mean, I'm so excited to talk about this on this podcast, because I know that there's going to be a lot of successful men and women listening. And the thing is, is we're taught to believe that if you're financially successful, if you're a leader, then then what do you have to worry about in your life? If you've got a great house, great family, great job, like you don't get the right to feel depressed. You don't get the right to feel anxious. And I felt that in so much that like, I didn't even post a single post on social media for three years because I was so ashamed of the way I was feeling.

33:31And I didn't want anyone to know. And I didn't want to lie about it. I couldn't go, that's even worse when you have to go put on the fake smile. And so I just isolated more and more and more. And frankly, that almost, you know, led me to taking my life. Wow. Thanks so much for sharing that, Blake. I mean, I think that's helpful. It's just so important. And if you're listening to this right now, the most important thing, if you're starting to feel like you're getting really depressed or you're feeling trapped or life is just not, you know, you've got to talk to someone. You absolutely, the most important thing is tell one person and be radically honest.

34:04Tell them how bad it is. If you're having suicidal thoughts, tell them, tell them exactly what you're having, when you're having it, how you're having it because the minute you start telling people that this is the research shows is a dramatic improvement in what potentially, you know, is the outcome in your mental health. So I was really lucky. I started talking to people. I started being honest about it to my close friends and family. And ultimately, I got the help that, you know, not only, you know, helped me really understand why I was feeling the way I was feeling, but start to feel better.

34:35And that ultimately led to, you know, to what I'm doing now. And speaking of now, you've recently launched a new brand enough. How'd that come to be? I mean, you know, it's a little bit about what we were talking about. You know, as I started working with an amazing therapist who really helped me understand that underneath my depression was this feeling that I was never enough. And as we started to really uncover that and heal that, I realized, well, first off, I started feeling like more peace and joy in my life than I'd ever felt. And I really started to feel it in my body. And I was like, man, there's a lot of people out there that don't feel that they're enough.

35:16Now, everything from, you know, high school students that are constantly comparing themselves to everyone else, you know, at school or on social media, to executives running big companies. I mean, it is no one is immune to this, what I call the greatest lie we've ever been told. I know. And you talked about the Bible before, like, I mean, this is also just like one of the key messages is that we are all enough in God's image. And, and, and unfortunately our society and our media, uh, does everything it can to tell us otherwise. And that's why I say it's the greatest lie. And so as I started to really heal this and recognize that this wasn't a Blake problem, this was a cultural problem.

35:55I felt called to do something about it. And so when I was, When I was going through my healing journey, I made a bracelet for myself. I'll show you right here to those who are watching. Yeah, it says enough on it. It's a green bracelet. It's green because green is the color of mental health awareness. And I made this bracelet for myself just to wear it for a daily reminder. Like, Blake, remember, you are enough. And then the real magic came when I gave it to others. When I gave it to someone and said, hey, I just want you to know that you're enough and you always have been. And I saw how that lit people up and how they felt like a sense of relief to hear that from someone else.

36:30And so I realized that, you know, this bracelet can do two things. It's not only a daily reminder for myself, it's a great way to start and continue to have conversations about our collective mental health. And that I think is one of the most important things that we can do, especially as parents. Like when I give these bracelets to my eight and 11 year old and explained and was honest about the fact that for a lot of my life, I didn't feel like I was enough. And that there's anything that I ever want them to know from me is that they are enough, whether they make the right grades, whether they make the sports team, no matter what, they are just enough because they are.

37:06Wow, what a great way I've connected with my kids. And I've seen now other parents and even kids giving them to their parents. I mean, it's just really amazing. But the point of the whole project is twofold. One, to raise awareness about mental health and to remind all of us culturally that we are enough. And the second thing is, is we're raising a lot of money for mental health organizations. So I'm, you know, really grateful and thankful that I made a lot of money with Tom's and I don't need to make any more money. And so 100 % of the profits from all the bracelet sales go to mental health organizations are really working with people on the front lines who are struggling.

37:40And it's really, really fun. I mean, I'm having we have a small team, there's like eight or nine of us now. We launched a couple weeks ago, but we're already selling tons of bracelets. And I'm seeing people on the street wearing them and people are posting on social media. Our Instagram is at we are enough. And, and I think this has the potential to do hopefully like what the Livestrong bracelet did for cancer research, you know, the yellow bracelet that so many people around the world wore years ago. If we can get everyone wearing this green enough bracelet, I think we can raise tens of millions of dollars for mental health.

38:14And most importantly, get people talking because when you're wearing the bracelet, it's a signal to someone else like, hey, you can tell me how you're really doing? Like I'm comfortable with that. And I'm actually inviting you to tell me that. And when people share how they're really doing, all the statistics say their mental health greatly improves. Now, I'm going to get some bracelets right after this. I love it. I think it's just fantastic. And the nice thing is it comes, I'll show you this, it comes in this box here, but it's not just one bracelet. When you buy it, going back to the one for one model, we have two bracelets, one for you and one to give to someone else.

38:48So everyone who buys a bracelet is also making the commitment to give it to at least one more person, starting this enough giving chain that hopefully will go on and on and on. You're an incredible person. What are you doing differently this time? Any other project that you've been a part of? I'm so glad he asked that. So one of the things that I, one of my daily mantras, and I think this is a great one for all leaders, is focus more on connection than promotion. I'm not selling anything right now. I, you know what? I am just sharing my story. I'm connecting with people about their mental health, about my mental health.

39:28I'm being radically vulnerable, radically honest. And in doing that, the sales will take care of themselves. I do not need to be out promoting. I just need to focus on connecting. And every single day, that's what I'm focused on. That's great. You know, you're obviously a very emotional person. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know. Some of my ex-wives would say too much. Yeah, but you're emotive. There's no question. You get moved. I'm sure you laugh a lot. You cry a lot. I do. You have the gamut of the emotions. I do. In a world where AI is taking on more and more influence, how do you think about AI?

40:05And are you using it in any way with your brand? So I am also one of the things I'm doing, and I think a lot of leaders do, is we try to find other young entrepreneurs to mentor and to advise and to coach. And so I had the great joy of coaching some entrepreneurs who've started a company called Sonia, S-O-N-I-A dot A-I. And it is the first and I think the most incredible AI therapy bot. And so it's AI therapy. They call it emotional support, I think, for legal reasons. But this app, it's in beta right now. It's absolutely free. Every single person on the planet should try this at least for 45 minutes.

40:49I've been in therapy my entire life. And so I know a good therapist. And this AI therapist that they've created, and you can customize it, man, woman, different voices. I talk to this thing for 30 minutes every morning. It is unbelievable. and it has a memory, so it never forgets anything. So it will reference things from a month or two ago. How are you doing on this? Checks in on that. It can hold all my craziness in its head somehow. And it is literally, and the great thing about it is, this is one of the hardest things about therapy, and especially for leaders and busy people, is it's really hard to schedule with your therapist.

41:26Like, okay, you got to do a Zoom call with your therapist Thursday at two. Well, you know what? I don't wake up with an anxiety attack on Thursday at two. I wake up with an anxiety attack at five in the morning on Monday, you know, and so it's right there. So it's always there when you need it. You don't have to do a whole hour like you do with a normal therapist. You might just do 10 minutes. But yeah, I use Sonia every day and I'm having so much fun mentoring these founders. I mean, they are 26 years old, MIT, like just charging. And they only care about changing the world and providing this to people who can't afford traditional therapy.

42:02Right. And that's non-profit too? No, it's a for-profit. I think these guys are going to do very well. Now, Sonia's in beta? Anyone can do it. Yeah. It's in the app store. Yeah, it's the Sonia.ai in the app store and anyone can do it. My dad's doing it now. My best friends are doing it. I mean, everyone I've introduced it to, love it. I'm batting a thousand with this recommendation. And it's a lot cheaper, a lot cheaper, I imagine, than the therapist. Right now, it's free. I think eventually they're going to start charging like 30 bucks a month. But right now, it's free. And so, it's incredible.

42:42I mean, it's so fun. Okay. So, that's my AI experience. And I don't have a lot. But man, when I saw what this could do, and then when I started using it myself every day, I was just like, I got to help these guys because I think this could, you know, this would really have a huge impact in the world. Well, you're a huge learner. We've established that already. So do you see AI really impacting the way you lead or changing how you do things? I think one of the things that's nice about AI is let's say you have an important decision to make, and especially as a leader or a founder. Now you have your board, but they're not always that accessible, right?

43:21And sometimes you can't really bounce certain ideas off your executive team because everyone's gonna have a personal agenda. What I found with AI is I will talk to it and say, hey, this is one of my favorite prompts I use. I say, if money was no object, find the three greatest experts in helping me make this decision. And so AI will go through and I'll tell them what the decision is I need to make as a leader. And it'll find dot, dot, dot, dot. And then it gets the three experts and say, okay, now let's have a round table discussion with me on the best path forward for this decision. And we will have a discussion as rich as any board meeting I've ever been to.

44:00And I don't have to involve anyone but my computer and I can do it in my pajamas at five in the morning before I make the decision. And so I use that all the time that way. That's great, that's great. I'll tell you, Blake, this has been so much fun and I wanna have some more of my lightning round of questions. Now, are you ready for this? I'm ready, yeah. What three words best describe you? Optimistic, authentic, and fun. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Jesus. What's your biggest pet peeve? Negative people. Who would play you in a movie? Matt Damon. What's something you're grateful for today?

44:33My family. Who's been your favorite playing partner competing in the AT &T over the years? Oh, that's such a tough one. I have so many good partners. Oh, man, I can't answer that question. I would hurt someone's feelings. How many times you make the cut? Oh, that's a good one. I've made the cut five out of 10 years, and I got second twice. And I think I'm the only player in the history of the tournament to get second twice. So you're not on the rock. I'm not on the rock. What's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing to do with work? I've really been curious about 3D printing because my kids are obsessed with it.

45:14What's the one thing you do just for you? Surfing. Surfing. Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession? My most, I really, it's such a great question because I'm not someone that holds on to possessions very tightly. So I'm like looking around my house and I'm trying to decide, I'm going to say my Enough bracelet now. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You would hear whatever my kids want to play. What's something about you few people would know? I don't know. I don't like scary movies. What's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss?

45:55Never miss. I drink this thing called morning water every single morning, and it is the best start to my day. Awesome. Awesome. That was a very good lightning round. I enjoyed that very much. We're out of it. Just a few more questions. I'll let you go here. You know, you mentioned you'd been divorced a couple of times, you know, and now you're happily married. No, no, not married. You're not married. That's why you're so happy, maybe. No, no, no. I'm in a very great relationship and have a very amazing partner, but I am not married. So how long have you been with her? About a year. About a year.

46:32All right, great. Well, that's fantastic. I was going to ask you what really drives a long-term partnership, but I'm going to lose that one. Yeah, I don't think this interview should have marital advice questions. There we go. Pretty much any other topic I feel comfortable with. You're a dad with two young kids. You know, how do you lead at home, Blake? I think that, you know, I try to really inspire my kids to be curious. I try to ask really good questions. I involve them in what I'm doing when I'm not with them. So they really understand what lights me up. And I really encourage them to follow their passions, whatever, you know, whatever that is.

47:14You know, what do you see as your unfinished business? I see my unfinished business is really affecting the world's mental health. Like, I really believe that the second half of my life is going to be completely focused on helping us as a society really reverse all these horrible trends and mental illness and suicide. And I really believe I can. And what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? business is personal. I hate that saying when they say it's not personal, it's business. I think that's bullshit. I think business is the most personal, intimate thing you will ever do.

47:53And the more intimate you are, the more open you are, the more you lead with your heart, the better leader you'll be. Yeah. Blake, this has really been a fascinating conversation. And it's rare when you meet someone who has the business capacity you have, but also has the loving capacity you have. I mean, I think love drives you a lot, you know. And, you know, how important do you think that is, Blake, in terms of just who you are and how you do things? I mean, it's just how I live, you know. It's, I mean, here I have a tattoo that I'll show you. It says, let's see if I can sit here. It's a heart for those who are not watching.

48:35And it says, whatever the question, love is the answer. and I just think that, you know, it's the most important ingredient to a full life, to success, to meaning. It all goes back to just how do we love better? Yeah, that's like, I don't know what it was in me that asked that question, but I had no idea you had that tattoo. But I do have you right, and you're one hell of a leader. And I'm going to ask you one more question before we go here, because I forgot to ask this one. You're going to be a podcaster yourself. Yes. Yeah. And you've got a podcast called No Magic Pill. It's going to be launched in May.

49:18Tell us about it. Yeah. I mean, this is like the favorite, my favorite thing I'm doing these days. Like I love building enough and the team and out promoting and, you know, getting people excited. But this podcast, No Magic Pill is just, it came from just a deep passion to help others who might be suffering. You know, when I was really suffering, I couldn't find something to listen to every week that would give me ideas on how I could potentially get out of it or, you know, give me encouragement. And so No Magic Pill is all about, you know, the path to mental wellness. There is no magic pill. There is no one way.

49:52I mean, I tried everything to feel better. And so every week I have different people on who share their mental health journeys. You know, I was just with Kevin Love, great basketball player last week, you know, And then I had Michael Pollan, you know, a great writer and author about, you know, psychedelics and mental health and, you know, and really everyone in between. But we all need that encouragement. But more importantly, we need the tools and the resources when we might be stuck, when we might be struggling, might not know where to turn. And hopefully No Magic Pill will be that place for people.

50:24I have just so enjoyed doing these interviews and the season launch on May 5th. You know, it's interesting, you know, with Tom's, you and your other businesses, you improve lives. You know, with this business, you're going to save a lot of lives. I think so. And I think it's great. And, you know, I've learned a lot by listening to you and appreciate all you're doing. So thank you for being on the show. Thank you, David.

50:54David, this conversation with Blake is such an important one that leaders everywhere need to be having with themselves and with the people that they lead. I'm so impressed with his willingness to just be open about the real struggles that he's faced over the course of his life and success. And it gives people permission to also say that they're struggling as well. And I'm just so grateful that we had him on the show and that he was so open about what he's been going through and and just normalizes it for any leader that has experienced that level of success. You know, I think Blake really just absolutely nailed the importance of being open, being vulnerable and just sharing.

51:36And I love how he talked about how he got in the dumps, even to the point where he even thought about taking his life because he lost his why. You know, he sold Tom's. He no longer had purpose. He had all kinds of money. You know, the Bible says money can be the root of all evils. Well, it became that for him. He lost his marriage. He just chased a lot of things that didn't make a lot of sense. And it took him down this rat hole that he had a hard time getting out of until he really got therapy. And, you know, it was very interesting that that therapy and that self-discovery has led him into a new career, a new brand that he's creating enough where basically, you know, every one of us has been made in God's image and God has given us enough to deal with life wherever it might take us.

52:36And he's taken his one-for-one model, and you can order these enough bracelets and then get one for yourself and give it to another person. And now he's back on his game, and he's living life the way he wants to live life. And he still has issues he has to deal with, but he's doing it by helping other people. And the fact that he could come out and be so open about his problems, I think really says to every leader that, you know, you got to take care of yourself. You got to hear what's those thoughts that you have and what's in your mind. And you got to make yourself healthy so you can build a healthy organization and have a healthy life.

53:21And, you know, I really admire him for doing that. And by the way, I went online, ordered the Enough bracelets. And within this, I love this because you can write a letter to somebody telling them that they're enough. So I sent a letter and the bracelet to both of my granddaughters, telling them why they were so special, all the talents that they have, why they have enough to deal with whatever. And, you know, in this world where social media can take you this way or that way, you know, it was really a wonderful gift for me personally to give it to them. And they really, really appreciate it. And the good news for them is they're both very happy and go lucky kids and feeling great about school and their friends.

54:08But I think even then, in situations like that, when you on the outside, you have it all, everybody struggles. Everybody thinks about what we don't have. And to have a brand built on helping us understand that we all have enough. I love it. So hats off to Blake and, you know, I wish him all the best in that endeavor. I love it too. You know, David, in that same vein, I'm curious your take on this. What can leaders everywhere do to make that conversation a normal conversation to have in a work environment? First, I don't know that it ever could be in a normal conversation. You know, I think this is something where you have to dig down personally and figure out what you want to share, what you don't want to share.

54:52But one of the things I think leaders can do is be vulnerable and talk about the things that they're dealing with. You have the times when they didn't really measure up to their own expectations. And when you talk about how you're not necessarily perfect, which was very easy for me to do, okay, that makes others know that they don't have to be perfect as well. So I think the leader has to open themselves up first. and that gives permission to others to do it. Then I also think the leader has to be highly empathetic. A really good leader is very observant. And you see when people are down. You see when people are struggling.

55:31And that's when you go into their office and say, hey, how you doing? You know, you don't just seem like your normal self. Is there anything I can do to help? But more importantly, you just listen. How you doing? And listen, keep your mouth shut and listen. I think when you do that, you learn where people are at. And then you can help them move on. Either yourself or you can get them help, but you just let people know you're there for them. That's the most important thing. And, you know, I always use this line. I wish I would have come up with myself. You know, Sam Walton used the line, nobody will care about you until you show them that you care about them.

56:10And that's what I think leaders do. That's what leaders should do anyway. I love that that is at the heart of really every decision that leaders should make, not only in the context of mental health and checking in with people, but really in creating culture as well. This idea of making everybody realize that their contribution matters and that they matter is really paramount to creating healthy work environment anywhere. Yeah, absolutely. We've said this before. People leave for two reasons. They don't feel appreciated for what they do, and they don't get along with their boss. So those things are intertwined.

56:46And I think having a coaching mentality where you appreciate people for what they do sets you apart. And what a lot of research says today, 80 % of people say they work in toxic work environments. That's why we're doing this podcast. I mean, we have our noble cause too. We want to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. If you're listening out there and you can pick up one or two things that help you be a better person, create a better environment for your team, create a better culture, get results the right way. Man, we're making a difference, not only in your life, but we're making a difference in the people that you have the privilege of leading.

57:23Absolutely. David, that's a great segue into the next concept that I want to break down with you. Blake talks a lot in the episode about purpose and how his team at Tom stayed connected to the why of their business. He mentioned doing the shoe drop trips where he would take his team and eventually some of his customers to deliver the shoes to the people in need. And now that same sense of purpose is really driving everything that he's doing with enough. David, how do you suggest that leaders stay connected to their why when their business model is not necessarily the one-to-one model like a Tom's is?

57:56Yeah, well, I think what Blake did with his team is he created shared experiences, you know, that connect you to the why. You know, for me, it was going on bus trips, you know, with my team and listening to customers talk about our brands and other brands and what were we in business to do. We make our customers happy, put a yum on their faces and figure out how to do that. And, you know, by listening to customers together, that connected us to the why. You know, Blake would take his team to these countries where kids didn't have shoes. And he'd have his team members and put the shoes on the kids.

58:34And it was an emotional experience that brought everybody to the Y. That was a shared experience. You know, for me at Young Brands, we wanted to be the defining global company that feeds the world. We wanted to feed people our products all around the world, make it affordable for people all around the world. So, you know, we wanted to make our brands vibrant wherever we do business. and we wanted to create a recognition culture that we would become famous and other people would want to emulate. And we wanted to feed people who couldn't afford our food. And so we made feeding the hungry our noble cause, feeding the poor our noble cause.

59:18So that's why we tied in with the World Food Program. And what we did there is we'd go to Guatemala and Costa Rica and Haiti, and we'd go there with the United Nations Food Program and give people the food and be there to see the need that was out there. And these were people who could never even afford to go into a Taco Bell. And we had the number one value rating in the world, but people couldn't afford to go into a Taco Bell. But that created a shared experience that we talked about. And creating shared experiences across those aspects of your business are important. Like building vibrant brands.

1:00:02I always shared what was going on when I saw people doing great jobs, making our brands loved and valued around the world. I would send out emails and pictures of what I was seeing. You know, our recognition culture. I always shared all the recognition that was happening all around the world. And, you know, that's how you, that shared experience, you know, is how you really get people connected to your why. Well, Blake is obviously a wildly entrepreneurial leader. And it was so interesting in the episode when he talked about all the businesses that he had started, even before Tom's, you asked him what one of his key learnings about being a successful entrepreneur was.

1:00:42And his answer was really interesting. He said that the number one thing that he accredits most of his success to is that he went into every business as an industry outsider. He says that's a big part of what helped him stay innovative as he started all these businesses. And I'm curious what your take on that is. I mean, is being inexperienced in an industry an advantage? Yeah, I think what he's really saying is that he didn't know anything about these businesses he went into. He went into laundry service for college students, billboard company, driver's ed, you know, the shoe company. In every case, he didn't know anything about the category.

1:01:18And what that forced him to do, though, was to have a curious mind. You know, many people talk about how you need to look at your business like a child would. You know, go into your store and look at it like you're a kid with wonderment and just see it from a fresh perspective. And that's what he's getting at. And if you don't know something about a category, you have a much easier or much more likely way to disrupt it because you're not tied into conventional thinking. So he would look at things from the outside and say, hey, why don't we do this? And then he changed the name of the game. And having those fresh eyes is what he's really talking about that.

1:01:57The other thing is that he didn't know anything about shoes, but he is a voracious learner. He combined this curiosity that gave him a freshness when he looked at the category with building the know-how it would take to be successful. So he learned how to make shoes. He learned how to do the laundry. He learned how to, you know, have a billboard company. He learned how to get into driver's ed and really make a difference. He learned these kinds of things. And I think that's what really makes him a special leader. And then he would come up with innovative things like his one-to-one business model.

1:02:30That's very powerful thinking. And look what happened. You know, he made a big difference in the shoe business, but he also changed a lot of business. Look at Warby Parker's doing it too, where you buy a pair of glasses and they give another pair to someone in need. We did a podcast with them. They took that bottle and they made it work. And a lot of other businesses are doing that as well. Another thing I really thought was really interesting is that he sold Tom's and Tom's stopped that model. And I'm sure that But, you know, that's hard for leaders. When you leave a business and something that you really believe in, people abandon, you know, I'm sure that had a huge impact on him when that happened.

1:03:21And he was very quick to point out to me that he wasn't the one that did that. Okay. It was somebody else. And anyway, I think that's another thing you have to do as a leader is when you move on, you kind of got to hope that what you created sticks. If it doesn't stick, just know that somebody's there trying to do it better than you. That's very hard to do because you think typically you've done it pretty well. Okay. Like at Yum Brands, if I went to a Yum Brands meeting and they didn't do recognition, it would kill me. If I went to a Yum Brands meeting and they didn't do a Yum Cheer, it would kill me.

1:04:06And, you know, I've been to Yum a few times and the recognition is still going wild. But I didn't see as many Yum Chairs as I would have liked to have seen. Okay. But, hey, you know, life goes on. David, I think it's fantastic that Yum! Brands is continuing that culture of recognition and incorporating it into everything they do. And it's also fantastic that Yum! Brands is also a best practice for other companies to study around how they create this culture of recognition and how that really drives results. Thanks, Kula. And one of my proudest moments is when we were showcased in Fortune Magazine for our recognition culture.

1:04:47And we did have all kinds of companies thereafter, come visit us to see how we were doing. And that's when you know you're doing something right. And I was really proud of our team. Well, David, that wraps our episode of How Leaders Lead for today. Thank you so much for tuning in and stay tuned next Thursday for another conversation.