#284: Shea Ralph, Head Coach of Women’s Basketball, Vanderbilt – Ground your team in values, not results

23:41David Novak:Yeah, I don't. I don't care respectfully. I don't care where people rank us. I know that those things that you vote on are subjective. Coaches vote on that. They vote on awards. Awards that we get are voted on. And I know there's a lot of thought that goes into it. So I'm not trying to be disrespectful. respectful but I want to win things that you can't vote on I care about the things you can't vote on so where we are in the pre-season poll it doesn't matter to me and you know until we continue to go in the direction we're going and do some of the things like we've done this year to make people understand exactly what we're capable of that we're not going anywhere that we are here to win championships then that's where they're going to vote us but as we continue to take steps in the right direction and check off boxes in order for us to be formidable and respectable.

24:31David Novak:Then they'll vote us what they vote us next year or the year after. I'm only concerned with where did we end up? Did we end up second? We ended up second, right? I knew that this team was capable of that finish. I don't care what other people think, but I know what I think and I know what they think and that's all that can matter to us. You know, I've heard you say something that I found really interesting. I'm the weather. What do you mean by that? the way that I show up matters. So when you, we started talking earlier about how I have a calm demeanor and I am a certain way because that's what my group needs from me.

25:08David Novak:When I come in here and I'm throwing lightning bolts and thunderclouds and my demeanor is not bringing great energy, I'm taking energy from people. They're walking on eggshells around me now. What's wrong with coach? Oh, she's busy. Now there's a time and a place for that. But if I'm angry, I'm going to tell you I'm angry. And I'm going to tell you why. I'm going to be really direct about it. But when I show up every day, whether it's a great day or a tough day or a long day or a short day, I am the weather. When I walk in, I want people to feel like, hey, she's ready to go. It's sunshine today.

25:40David Novak:Maybe a little wind gusts from time to time to get people moving. But I'm going to show up and be very, very, very dependable in the way that people can interact with me. and I'm not a moody person and I don't want people that are moody around me. There's too much going on. This environment is high pressure, high intense. I got to show up a certain way and I got to be that way all the time so that my team understands who I am and what they're going to get from me. Hello, friends. I hope you're loving this conversation between David and Coach Ralph. As always, stay tuned to the very end of the episode.

26:16David Novak:David and I are going to debrief some of the concepts that he talks about with Coach Ralph so that you have something really tangible that you can apply to your leadership and to your life. Enjoy the rest of this conversation and I will see you at the debrief. You referred to your faith a little bit earlier about how you use that to sort of ground you every day. Is there anything else you do to make sure that the weather report on you is pretty good every day? The weather report, it is my faith. 100 % is the number one thing. And the second thing, 1A, my faith, my relationship with God. 1A is my family.

26:57David Novak:I'm a mother. I have a seven-year-old daughter. I'm a wife. My mother moved here to live in this area so she could help with our daughter. My sister has three kids. We have family around the area. And then, you know, for me, no matter if I have a great day or a bad day, when I show up at home, I'm mommy. And my daughter needs a snack and she needs me to give her a bath. And like, will you watch a movie? And these are the days that I'm never going to get back. So I will never take that for granted. But it's also been a great blessing for me to be a mom and a wife because it has taught me the true meaning of consistency and just showing up for the people that need you to show up for them, no matter what's going on for you.

27:41And, you know, as I understand as well, in your program, your team created five standards and you had the team develop those standards with you or maybe by themselves. Tell us about the process you used to get an ownership on what your team is really going to stand for.

28:02David Novak:It's a great question. And we felt like we were missing that, you know, especially this year. I had come in and laid out the standards and the values as the head coach. And my staff had done work around it. And we just kind of gave them to our team, like, this is what we're about. And I did feel like there was a lack of ownership around those. And so as we were brainstorming last summer about how we could help them understand that they needed to take more ownership, the idea of them coming up with them, but the process of it, not just like we're going to do this one day, right? It was a week long, weeks long process.

28:42David Novak:And we involved ourselves just a little bit, but then I connected them with a former general here that works at Vanderbilt, that has a military scholar program at Vanderbilt and works with a bunch of the teams here in terms of team building and leadership councils. He has been such a blessing to our program. He came in and just kind of like, I think when we removed ourselves from the room, the players felt like they could have more open conversations with themselves. They were able to kind of bounce some ideas off of General Brower and his experience in war and leading a group of young men, just like we were leading them and just like they were trying to lead each other.

29:25David Novak:All of that turned into them defining who they wanted to be this year. This is who we want to be. These are our standards. And we're going to talk about them and live them every single day. It was really, really cool. It kind of took on a life of its own. But the process of it was awesome to witness. Now, I understand you get to pick one of those. What was yours? Be a good person. Be a good person. And give me a couple examples of the others. Be a good person is mine. The team's was be a soldier, positive voice, unity, and belief. One thing I know you obviously do is you watch a lot of film. You got to watch a lot of film.

30:07Do you watch a lot of film on what you do as a coach as well? I mean, I know players watch film and you watch other teams, whatever, but do you learn from film yourself? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And listen, and this is really important.

30:24David Novak:There isn't anything that I'm going to ask my players to do that I won't also do myself. So if I'm asking them, you know, review film, get in here and work harder. These are skills that you don't have that you need to build. I am doing the same kind of reflective exercises for myself after games, in preparation, specifically when, you know, I'll look at different lineups that we have in or timeouts that I've called or situational things that, you know, I'm not in the moment, you know, I know what we did, but I don't know that we prepared for that moment. And so like the games will show me, what are things that we need to work a little bit more on, but also were we correctly prepared for this moment?

31:06David Novak:Have I been preparing them? How did I manage our substitutions? How did I manage our timeouts? and that's been really valuable for me and has really helped me grow. We were talking earlier and you're a student of leadership and you're constantly learning about how to lead. And I understand you have a leadership council. Who's on it and how do you earn the right to be on your council? I think we have five or six of our players on there. Most of them are veterans. So I have my seniors, my two seniors that have been here with me four and five years. I have our graduate transfer. She's on there. I have our senior that Justine Pazat.

31:52David Novak:She's on there. She's been here for three years. Michaela, our sophomore, and then Madison Green, another sophomore who are rising leaders. Right. So I chose, they really chose them. I had them list out who they thought the leaders were. It was anonymous on our team. And then after getting their input, I put the people in the room that I felt like would be the best voices for the team. Right. So you can't, you know, for us, I wanted to make sure that we had enough leaders in the room where we could continue to build it after our seniors graduate. But also who would be the right voice for the right person at the right time.

32:32David Novak:And that can't just be one or two people. It's too much work. Right. There has to be people in there that can be that for the team, but that also can be that for each other. And the lessons that they're learning together, I thought were valuable for them as well. They are also still growing as leaders. So it was more of a training, like let's train you how to lead yourself first and lead each other first. And then we can talk about how we're going to lead the team together. You mentioned earlier when you were a child, you had a great role model. Your mother was a trailblazer in women's basketball, highly accomplished.

33:07I know that she's in the Hall of Fame in North Carolina. But she said, hey, I'm going to go out and blaze my own trail, which I love. Do you have another story from your childhood that really kind of tells us a little bit about how you became the leader you are today? There's so many people that were part of my childhood. And I think there's a lot of stories

33:35David Novak:that made me who I am. And what I remember is that there were people who saw me, right? So there was a coach, he ran a bunch of camps, Austin Lehman, who challenged me really hard. And I would go to his camps and I was always playing with the boys, or he would compare me to the boys or he would put me up against the boys and it was an impossible feat for me, right? Like I'm not going to win this. And he would continue to push me to be better and to not compare myself. And what I thought was really cool about, and I tell you that specific story, he still keeps in contact with me. He still text messages me.

34:13David Novak:He watches the games. He has his opinions. And I love that because that's how he always was. But at that time in my life, I felt like, and he was one of them, there were several, he really saw me. He didn't, he, he didn't gloss over, you know, oh, all the, all the awards and come, let me make this easy for you. And you're so great. He really saw me and pushed me and, um, and challenged me, but, and he would also comfort me in moments where he knew that I needed it, um, with just a conversation or something like that. But I think that my leadership style really lends itself towards like, And I wasn't quite sure.

34:54David Novak:You know, I knew I wanted to be great, but I was also being pulled in different directions at that time in my life. Like, am I going to be a cheerleader? Do I want to be, you know, am I going to be a part of this group with all the girls that are all really cool? Or am I going to be in the gym and do what I'm going to do? And so when there are people that see you for who you are and continue to pour into you, that made a difference. And I feel like that has made me the leader that I am because I try to do the same thing here. And you went on to become an incredible player at UConn, but your career was riddled with injuries.

35:27I couldn't believe it when I found out you tore your ACL five times by the age of 23. What did going through that kind of physical adversity teach you about leading through pain?

35:40David Novak:You got to take care of your body as an athlete. And I just thought I could outwork everything. I thought the harder I worked, the better I would be. And that just wasn't the case. You know, I needed to take a little bit better care of my body. I needed to fuel it better. There's things I could have done differently, but I was so stubborn because I wanted to get back out on the court. I mean, I was stubborn as a mule. And I don't know why I had five ACLs. I just knew that I was determined to play. And another reason why I'm so grounded in my faith now is like, yeah, no, I'm tapping you on the shoulder.

36:15David Novak:And if you need me to tap you another time, I will. but this isn't your path. And leading through pain, I'm not afraid of pain. I loved playing really hard. I felt like that helped my team. The people around me inspired them because I would play through anything. I'd wrap everything up and tape everything. I got so mad if I got pulled out of practice, but it gave me an idea of what it looks like to be a great leader because I'm going to show up for you. I'm going to show up. But also I need to learn how to do it maybe in a more intelligent way, it turned me into the path of coaching. So it was really hard to go through all those injuries.

36:53David Novak:I didn't get to play professionally. That's something that I will never be able to do. But now I get to be part of someone else's dream to play professionally. And I think that's what I was built for. What was it like, though, before you developed maturity where you can say, I think that's what I was built for? When your dream is shattered, You know, you want to play in the NBA, but you don't get to play in the WNBA. You know, when your whole world seems to like just crash, you know, because, you know, how'd you deal with that? Yeah, I didn't deal with it very well. I was pretty angry. I don't think I watched basketball for like a year after my last ACL.

37:33David Novak:I was trying to finish school. Had no idea what I wanted to do. I was kind of hopping around from thing to thing and not really invested in any of it. And it was all in Connecticut while I was rehabbing. But what it did give me as I came out of that fog a little bit was, number one, I am not a basketball player. My identity is not just a basketball player. And I didn't know that until that point. I had not built an identity outside of being a basketball player, which led me to my faith. right? It led me to, this can't be what happens when I don't get things that I work for. This isn't who I am.

38:13David Novak:I am something much greater than this, much bigger than this. My purpose is much greater than this. But it also fueled me to want to coach because I feel like every athlete needs that. At some point, whether it's on your terms or not, the ball is going to stop bouncing. You're not going to be able to go back out on the field. Your career as an athlete is going to be over. Now what's next for you? Who are you after that? And we need to make sure that they can define that here and now, especially in the world that we live in with social media and all the narratives that people are going to want to talk about, a bad performance, a good performance.

38:49David Novak:You are not that. You are a great basketball player, but you're a human being with lots of other skill and talents, a child of God, all the things. And you're going to have a long career after you stop playing sports. We got to figure out what that passion is for you and pour into that as well. You're blessed enough to become a coach, you know, and pursue this goal of yours to help others get to the WNBA or just become the kind of a good person. I love that as being the one thing that you pick. Just be a good person. I think that's really cool. And, you know, you know what it takes to build a dynasty.

39:24I mean, you've seen it close up front and personal when you were at UConn. I was just curious if you had a story from Coach Ariema where you really got that moment where, you know, he kind of changed the way you think about leadership just by what he did as you were learning how to coach. Was there, do you recall a story where you go, whoa?

39:48David Novak:Yeah, there's a couple of them. He was masterful and is masterful at pressing the right buttons to get every single ounce of potential out of players. But one of the things I remembered when I coached, when I played for him, I just thought he was angry all the time. Like, why is he so angry all the time? He comes in here pissed off. And it's like, you know, I don't understand that. When I started working for him in the meetings that we would have, it was like, he really cares. And he's trying to figure out ways that he can show up and make the team better. And because at that time we were so good, I mean, we went on like 111 game win streak and no one could even come close to beating us when we played really well.

40:37David Novak:He felt like he had to be the opponent. You know, I'm the opponent. I have to be really hard on them every single day. So they don't, they don't get caught up in all of this stuff. And there were several practices. I remember one where we were playing five on eight in the half court. And he was allowing the eight defenders to trap the offensive players. And we weren't allowed to dribble. And it was like turnover, turnover, kicked ball. Like it was mass chaos. And I walked over to him and I said, listen, you know, like we're not going to. He goes, I know. I said, OK. It's supposed to be hard. It's good.

41:16David Novak:And then, you know, I think, you know, when we got back, the next game we played, it was like it felt like we were playing five on zero because everything was so much easier. It was just a very eye opening moment for me and like how we continue to make things so impossible for our team so that they could actually achieve success. And so now what is it going to take for you to build a dynasty at Vandy? at Vandy? I mean, you're obviously, you know, building your program up great year coach of the year, all this, you know, I mean, how do you take it to that, to that kind of consistency? The world that we live in now, the landscape that we live in now, it's, it's, you know, I have to do my job really well.

41:58David Novak:We have to recruit great talent and we have to coach and, you know, and, and, and we're going in the right direction, but what it takes to build a dynasty is much bigger than that in college sports anymore. I think one of the things that I will never, ever, no matter what the landscape does or changes or, you know, stays is like build relationships because in the world that we live in now, kids can just jump from school to school and, you know, and they're treated, these are kids in college or we're treating them like commodities. And it's a great opportunity that they have to earn money. And it's, and it's the right thing.

42:35David Novak:You know, NIL, like their March Madness is one of the most money-making tournaments, you know, sporting events in the world. So it's the right thing, but we still have to build relationships and teach them how to overcome adversity, teach them the value of delayed gratification. That comes through community and leadership. It comes through investment from our athletic director, our department, our chancellor, our university. It doesn't look like dollars. You need that too, but you need people. You need to surround them with people so that you can continue to retain athletes, coach them, continue to bring in talent because they see that we're different.

43:10David Novak:We have all of these things that they need to be great. And my hope is that as we continue on the path that we're on, that people will recognize that we are different and that we will be able to build a dynasty because that is the goal. This has been so much fun, Shay. And I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? I'm ready. I'm ready. Three words that best describe you. Aggressive, humble, smart. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? My husband. Sometimes I just want to think, I want to know what he's thinking. Your biggest pet peeve?

43:44David Novak:People chewing gum like this. I hate that too. Who would play you in a movie? How about Jennifer Garner? There you go. There you go. What's the toughest arena to play in? I would say Gampel Pavilion or South Carolina. Who's the best teammate you ever had? It's probably a tie. Carla Berube, Stacey Hansmeyer, Paige Sauer. What's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing to do with work? I am so curious about music and art and how people, is that something you can learn or is that a gift? Because I would love to learn how to play an instrument or how to be some sort of creative, but I'm not sure I have that.

44:31David Novak:So I have been curious about that lately. What's the one thing you do just for you? I go to yoga. Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession? My wedding ring. It was handed down from my grandmother. And funny story, it's a Vanderbilt diamond. Is that right? That is so cool. It's a Vanderbilt diamond. If I turned on the radio on your team bus on the way to a big game, what would I hear? Some songs with words that you should not be hearing anywhere. What's something about you few people would know? I'm a vegan What's one of your daily rituals something that you never miss?

45:06David Novak:My time with God, my devotional time Well, that was great lightning round, good job And I just have a few more questions and I'll let you go You know, you've been very open, Shea, about your battle with anorexia In high school and in college And that's a fight you've said never fully goes away How does having walked through something like that, you know, which is so personal and so difficult, how has that impacted the way you lead and care for people around you? Number one is you just never know what people are going through. And it's one of the reasons why I'm so relationship oriented, because I feel like I can't be a great coach if I don't know you.

45:52David Novak:And I need to be able to build trust in that way. Also, when you lead young women, there's a lot going on in the world. And I don't think it makes our young women weak. But one of the reasons I got myself into trouble is just by comparison. I just compared. And I thought that if I could control this one thing, then it would make me better. And I don't want my young women, I can't control that part of it. But I don't want them to ever compare themselves to anyone else. I want them to be secure in who they are. And it changed me as a human, but it changed me as a leader. So I think in order for people to really believe that and to dive into uncertainty and failure with a good attitude, they need to know that they're cared for, that they're loved regardless of the result, that we're gonna continue to push them.

46:43David Novak:But that's really, really important to me because I think if they don't have that, if our young women don't have that, then it could be anything that derails them. And I don't want their talent their potential future, their gifts to ever be derailed by something so easy as a relationship could take care of. You know, you and your husband, Tom Garrick, who played in the NBA, coached at Vanderbilt before you arrived here, and now coaches alongside you every day. You have a very unique partnership for sure. I mean, and what have you two built together that you couldn't have built alone? Everything.

47:20David Novak:Everything that we have right now. I mean, our lives, our family, this program, I am not nearly as experienced as he is. And he had a lot of head coaching experience. I had a lot of championship experience. He was a really great player as well. He was a sitting Division I head coach when we took this job together. And there's a lot going on around like he's working technically for me, but that's not how we approach it. And honestly, that's not how I approach it with any of my staff members. We are working together, but there isn't anything that I do that his hand isn't in and vice versa. We were just a really good team.

48:03David Novak:And, you know, we compliment each other. Well, our styles are very different and that can be challenging, but that's the beauty of it. You know, is, is that whatever our team needs, whatever our staff needs. Either one of us has it. You just have to know who to go to, but we're solid. And in terms of our family, I mean, we have this huge family. We have lots of people coming up this weekend. We have something so special, both at work and at home, that we would never have if it weren't for each other. And you're parents and you're a mom. And how do you think about leadership at home, Shea? We're pretty traditional at home.

48:41David Novak:I love being a mom and a wife. And I think we're just partners as well, but respectful. We want to make sure that we show our daughter what it looks like to have a healthy relationship, to have a healthy love, to have healthy boundaries, and to understand what it looks like to be loved and cared for. She is, you know, she's got it tough because our eyes are always on her. But we are unified as parents. And I absolutely love being a wife and a mom. It is just changed my life. And your mom travels with you to the games. You know, you have your mom come to the games, you know, that, how has that relationship changed and evolved over time?

49:23Because I imagine when you were a kid, you, you, you, you were independent, you know, you wanted to get to the point and now here you are back together. What's, what's that feeling like when you see your mom in the arena?

49:34David Novak:It's really cool. You know, as you get older and my mom, she's in her, she's, she's going to be 73 this year. Um, and our roles have changed. Our lives have changed. Our relationship has changed, but she laid a lot of the foundation of what women's basketball is experiencing right now in general. Right. So like she played at North Carolina and she had to drive the bus and she'll tell you all the stories. Like she had four different coaches in four years and they didn't have a locker room. And now all the things that I put her through when I was tough to raise, I told you I was stubborn. I put her through a lot.

50:10David Novak:And now seeing her be able to be part of my daughter's life and my life and witness firsthand what's happening with our sport and the eyes that are on it and the things that these players are experiencing and the joy that she has in all of that has been so cool. It's been so cool. And here you are now, you're one of the best coaches in college basketball. And you think back, walking into Vanderbilt five years ago, what have you become as a leader through the process that you weren't when you walked in the door. I mean, how have these last five years really changed you as a leader? Truly, because I say this word, but I truly am this word now.

50:51David Novak:I'm resilient. As a leader now, resilient. And I think that really matters because, you know, so many things can change from year to year. And I know who we are here. I know what we're trying to accomplish. And I know that it's not going to always be what we want, but we understand that. And we know that as long as we continue to do things the right way to get the right people in here, then nothing's going to get in our way. So I'm not, I'm not going to let the ups and downs, you know, fly me off the handle or, you know, get us in, get us into a place where the weather's not good up here. The weather's great because we're resilient.

51:33Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? Remember that you're not alone to study leadership, to listen to your podcast, to read books,

51:46David Novak:to remind yourself daily and however that looks like of who you are outside of your leadership role, but to continue to give yourself tools to be a better leader. And in order to do that, you have to have self-awareness. That makes all the difference, whether it's for yourself or people around you. Keep your head down. Do the work. Have self-awareness. Know who you are outside of that. And my guess is when you pick your head back up, you'll be a better leader. Well, Coach, I can't tell you how much I enjoyed this conversation. I wish you all the best in this tournament and the tournaments ahead.

52:22I know the outcome will be what it's going to be, but the process that you have and your belief in people and the way that you're supposed to get there, It's definitely textbook and any leadership book that I've ever read.

52:35David Novak:Yeah, well, thank you. I'm honored. I really enjoyed this time with you. Thank you so much.

52:45David Novak:David, as an alumna of Vanderbilt, I got to start this debrief conversation by saying anchor down. Did you actually go to Vanderbilt? I didn't know you were that smart. Shocking to most people, I did, in fact, go to Vanderbilt. My daughter went to Vanderbilt, too. So you guys have that in common. I love this conversation with Shay. Obviously, I'm a huge Vanderbilt fan, but what she's done with the program is so impressive. And David, I love conversations anytime we have them with coaches in sports. And I want to get your perspective on some of the things that Shay talked about in this episode and how our listeners can apply those insights to their own leadership and to their own life.

53:23David Novak:And the first thing I want to talk about is, you know, the importance of a leader knowing when they need to be present and when they need to leave the room. Shay talks about the process of how her team developed their own team values. And she says that things really shifted when she left the room and when she wasn't around for that conversation. As a leader, how do you know when you should step away from something so that it can grow and flourish? Well, you know, sometimes your team will tell you to. We had a podcast recently with John Donahue, the former CEO of Nike. And, you know, he talked about how his team went to offer an offsite and they were meeting and they said, hey, John, we'd like you to step out because we need to talk together as a team.

54:13And when he came back in, they had developed a contract on how they were going to work together. because they felt like they hadn't been working together the way how they needed to work together to get the kind of performance that the company needed. And John said it was so powerful because they came to their own conclusion. You know, I've always believed that, you know, any idea that someone comes up with on their own, there's more ownership of it. and you know i think you know there are times when a leader needs to step away and let their team get the ownership that's that that's required and you know i i've done that in in times where there i knew there was a lot of strife on on the team over a particular issue and i walked away so that they could have the comfort of getting it all out without me having to judge.

55:15And then when I came back, they had the solution. I think in Shay's case, she wanted people to really own the team culture. She wanted her players to really step up. She said she got to pick one of the core behaviors that they wanted to have, but they developed the others. And by doing that, you follow what I think is the law of leadership, which you got to remember, if you have no involvement, you have no commitment. So she could come in and say, hey, look, these are the five behaviors that we need to do. And the players said, oh, okay, okay, okay. But the players didn't develop. They didn't have any chance to have any input.

55:56They wouldn't own it. She's smart enough to know that if they come up with the behaviors, people will own it. And, you know, I think that's the real point here. You know, leaders need to be present, obviously. You know, you got to be present. You got to be out there. You got to let people know you're with them. You got to be a coach. You know, that's something that we all need to do. But you got to find whatever way you can to get ownership of something. And sometimes that means you don't need to be there. And, you know, I think that's a very powerful thing to remember.

56:37David Novak:It reminds me of the stories that you tell, David, about your time at Yum, when you would go up to someone and say, you know, how do you think I'm doing? And they would say, oh, David, you're doing a great job. And then you would ask them again and say, how do you think I'm doing? And they would say, oh, David, you're doing a great job. And then you'd ask them a third time. And then finally they would say, well, you know, I think that maybe you could do this a little bit differently. So as a leader, you, it's the same concept. You have to understand that a lot of times if you're present, you can't really get down to the nitty gritty of what's happening or what people are really believing unless you give them that time to discover it on their own.

57:09Yeah. And you got to have a process that will get it out of people. You know, and that's why I would always say ask three questions. Sometimes you have to ask four to get it out of there. The other thing you have to do with a team is you always have to be able to snip out the conflict. You know, one of the great things that you need to do as a leader is you got to be good at really driving productive conflict. And if you know there's issues on the team, you got to get those things out on the table so it can be resolved. But that's a great example when the leader has to be in the room because people would probably be just, you know, smiling to each other, you know, acting like everything's great.

57:50But the leader knows what people are really thinking because a lot of times the leaders come in, they have their people come into their office and tell them what they're thinking. But then when they get in the room with everybody else, they don't get the conflict out there. And so if you know what's going on with your team, you can make sure that the issues are raised so you can have the kind of productive conflict that'll get you to the best solution.

58:10David Novak:Another thing that's really obvious about Shea and the way that she coaches is that she never wants her team to define itself by their results, whether they're good or bad. But of course, in sports and in business, results matter, obviously. How, as a leader, do you walk that line? I think she doesn't want people to define themselves just by the results that they generate. But believe me, the key there is just by, okay? You know, just by the results. Because believe me, Shea likes winning. I mean, she is very, very competitive. She's been a winner her entire life. And she's got this team now on a roll and it's taken her five years to really build the kind of program she wants at Vanderbilt.

58:57So she loves she loves winning much more than she did when she was an assistant coach at Pitt, where she was losing all the time, when she talked about learning how to lose, you know. And, you know, you learn the best way to learn how to lose is to learn from when you lose. And that helped her become a better coach. But, you know, I think what Shea is really saying is, yeah, come on, team. We want to put wins on the board. But I'm here with you because I care about you as a person. I care about the whole person, not just part of you, not the basketball part. I want to make you a better person.

59:36I want you to leave Vanderbilt with a great degree. I want you to leave Vanderbilt with a great experience with your team members. is I want you to look back on these days and say, this is where I really developed and became a better person. And I think the best coaches, the best leaders, let people know that they care about them. And they don't just care about their output. They care about them as a person. And that's what she's really saying. And when people know that you care about them, you know, Sam Walton said, and I've said this many times, nobody will care about you until you care about them.

1:00:11when people know that you care about them, they're going to be committed to you. They're going to be inspired by you and you're going to get much better results. So in the end, you know, that, that, uh, that focus on the person is basically building people capability, helping that person be a better person. And I, as you know, I always say the formula for success is put people capability first, then you satisfy more customers, get more, and that's how you get more, make more money, care about your players. That's how you get more wins. You know, that's how you end up being in the NCAA tournament and potentially winning a national championship.

1:00:50David Novak:That spirit of caring about the whole person is really part of Shay's demeanor as a person and as a coach. And it kind of segues into this next topic that I want to debrief with you, David. And I love how in the episode, Shay says that she is the weather, meaning her mood as a leader really sets the tone for everyone else. Explain that concept. I love this idea. She says, I am the weather. I always say that's the shadowing, casting the shadow of leadership. She recognizes that what she does really projects the kind of energy that will be transferred over to whoever she touches that day. And so she tries to get herself in the right place.

1:01:33So when she goes to work, she goes to the gym, you know she's going to be positive she's going to have that contagious energy that inspires she's going to she's going to be able to pump people up she's not going to be the e or the downer you know she she doesn't want that to happen so for her the way how she does it is she she relies on her faith you know and that that a lot of people do that you know they'll get they'll spend private time they'll pray and they'll they'll they'll be thankful and they'll get gratitude you know but she finds a way to make sure that the weather's good, that she's got a great weather report.

1:02:12You know, she's, you know, the weatherman's saying, you know, it's sunny out there, no clouds in the sky, and, you know, we're going to get things done. And so, yeah, that doesn't mean she's always positive all the time because there's time when she's got to show some frustration with the team. And, you know, that's when those storms coming in, man, because, you know, she's kind of, you kind of, you know, you have made Shay too happy, so you better get your act together. So she has some stormy weather every now and then. We all do, okay? But I think, by and large, she wants to come in and be positive.

1:02:45And, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about how she just conveys the power of belief in the person. And, you know, she's interested in the whole person. You know, and I saw that at the end of the interview with me. Because she didn't just get off the mic and leave the computer. She said, hey, you know what? That was really fun. That was really good. I really enjoyed it. And I learned a lot, you know, from listening to your podcast in the past. Do you have any advice for me from what you heard? I love that. That show, that show that she, she, she cared about me to a certain extent as a person, or at least she cared about what I had to say.

1:03:34And that made me feel very valued. And I bet she does that with everybody she touches. And that's why she's great. You know, she's partners with her, her husband who coaches, and he's been a professional coach. She said he's a lot better coach than, than, than she, she is. but she went on and on about the, you know, the, the, the power they have together. And, you know, she knows how to make people feel valued and, and, and respected. And it's genuine. It's not, there's nothing fake about this woman. She's a very genuine person. I'm honored. I got a chance to meet her.

1:04:13David Novak:I love this concept too, David, because you don't have to have an official leadership position in order to assume this, this role as setting the tone for the people around you. And I think the more that we know how our attitude and disposition and outlook and perspective affects those around us, the more, the more we're able to lean into our own strengths and help other people lean into theirs as well. So I just, I love this concept of being the weather. And like you said, I mean, she's like, there are days when I go in the locker room and, and my players better get ready for a big old gust of wind because they know that I'm not going to be all sunshine today.

1:04:49And the other thing too, Kula, is think about your energy level when you smile. It's kind of hard to be down when you smile. If you force yourself to smile, it's kind of hard to be down. We happen to work with a guy who smiles all the time. His name is Tim Schur and he's just so positive. It's ridiculous. I've never met anybody so positive in my life, but it's amazing how he wins people over through his positive energy and his smiles. And, you know, because people want to be around people like that. And, you know, he has a contagious energy that makes it work. And I think that's what all leaders really want to have.

1:05:23David Novak:Well, David, another great episode of How Leaders Lead. Anchor Down. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next week.