3 More Questions (Peter Cuneo) with David Novak and Koula Callahan

0:04David Novak:Welcome to How Leaders Lead. It's Monday morning, which means another episode of Three More Questions is coming your way. I'm Koula Callahan here with David Novak. David, today we're debriefing your conversation with the former CEO and Vice Chairman of Marvel Entertainment. Yes, that is all 37 of the Marvel movies that we're talking about. Well, I got to tell you, my grandkids love the Barbel movies, so I don't know if they're going to listen to this podcast or not, but this one might have a better chance than others. Audrey, Claire, and Luke, you should listen to this podcast. Your Ogo's going to do a great job.

0:37I don't think so. Maybe someday they will.

0:39David Novak:Well, Peter Cuneo is a guy who has led seven successful turnarounds in his career. And what's interesting about the way that he leads and enters these environments is that usually he's stepping into an industry or a business that he doesn't have a ton of experience in. And yet he's been successful with all seven. So David, I'm excited to break down some of the topics that you chatted with Peter about in your episode in today's edition of Three More Questions. All right, well, let's go.

1:11David Novak:Question number one. It seems like today that you have to have experience in a certain industry if you want to get hired in that industry. For leaders looking to make an industry shift like Peter did many times in his career, David, what would you tell them to do in order to prove that they have what it takes to get the job done? Well, that's a great question because I've had a couple of experiences kind of like that. I went from the advertising agency to Pizza Hut, which is a restaurant business. And then I went from the pizza business to the Pepsi-Cola business, which was the beverage business.

1:46So, you know, I had to learn two very different industries and succeed in both of them, which is really a daunting task. You know, when you walk in there and you really don't know an industry that you're now basically in charge of growing as the head of marketing. What I found cool was the best way to do it is to go to the people who know their stuff. So I went in, didn't have any problem telling anybody that I didn't know anything, but I was going to learn as much as I could. And the best way I was going to learn it was by going to the people that knew a lot about the business, a lot about the brand, a lot about the category.

2:21And I was going to be in the listening mode. And I wasn't going to do anything until I'd really listened to the people and learned from the people who knew what needed to be done. And then I take it from there. And then the other thing is, is that I focus very much on the customer. There's always an end customer in every business. Who is it? Who do you have to satisfy? I went through every bit of data, every bit of learning that I could get through about the customer. And then I got immersed with the product. You know, I went and I worked and made pizzas at Pizza Hut and rode route trucks at Pepsi and, you know, kind of learned the job from the bottom up.

2:59And I think when you do that, you can familiarize yourself very quickly with what needs to be done and begin to formulate a plan. And as you do that, you're not doing it by yourself. You're doing it with a team of people who already have a lot of experience and you lean into them as well.

3:16David Novak:In the episode, David, Peter talks about how for the first six months of a turnaround, anytime you went into one, what he really did was exactly what you said. He asked great questions and just listened for six months before he made any plans of what needed to be done or who needed to be promoted or let go or what products needed to be replaced or strengthened. So it's really that first, you know, 90 days to six months that is so critical just to learn. Yeah, I think in the businesses that I went into and what I've learned about moving into new situations, the 90 day plan is really the key. If you're going for six months, people are going to wonder what the hell you're doing.

3:55Okay. Yeah. You know, to me, it's like you got 90 days and then you got to sit down and play the piano. You know, people are waiting for you to play the piano, but you just tell them up front that you're going to, the process that you're going to use to learn the business. And then together, we're going to figure out what needs to be done. And, and we'll sit down and, and we'll play the piano and we'll be playing from the same music sheet going forward. And that's how it works. Question number two, as opposed to a fixed

4:22David Novak:asset business, Peter explains that in a creative business like Marvel, everything is dependent upon the creativity of human beings. How can leaders in the creative space help develop that skill of creativity in their people? Well, first of all, I think you have to be open to creativity. You got to really want it. You want to have people break new grounds and come up with new ideas and things and then just celebrate it and recognize when it happens. Because as I've talked about before, when you recognize what you appreciate, you get more of it. But if there's one thing I would teach to have people really create a creative work environment is the skill of suspending judgment.

5:02If you want to be in a creative company or a creative environment, you must suspend judgment. You've got to let everybody get their ideas out on the table. And then you cull through those ideas and then you select what you think are the best ideas that you need to pursue. And the final thing I would say is, you know what? It's hard to find really great creative people. When you find them, love them, do whatever you need to do, pay them more than anybody else because they're going to make your bones. You know, a lot of people can execute, but the ability to create something is a talent that very few people have.

5:42And, you know, I think when you find those people, you want to want to do everything you can to celebrate them and make them happy.

5:50David Novak:I love that you started out with that idea of suspending judgment, because if people don't feel safe sharing ideas in the first place, then you're never going to have a creative environment. People are just never going to open up about what it is they think you should do differently or a new idea for a new product that could make a really big splash. So that suspending judgment principle is so critical. And I think, honestly, something that everybody in any working environment craves. You know, I went on a raft trip the other day, Kula. A raft trip? Say more. The Snake River. And we're going down the river and we're talking.

6:30And one of the things the guy asked me about was my career and, you know, what I was fortunate enough to do. And I said, well, I was able to work with the team to create Cool Ranch Doritos. And boy, he thought I was a rock star when I told him that. And then he says, you know what I do? He said, I take Cool Ranch Doritos, I crunch them up and I put them in my hamburger.

6:50David Novak:Sounds amazing. And then what I do is I take Cool Ranch and I sprinkle the Cool Ranch Doritos on top of the hamburger. And then I melt the cheese over. And he says, you cannot believe how good that product is. Now, you know, I'm suspending judgment, Kula, and I'm going to give that a try. I love it. But it was interesting, you know, just to do that. You got to suspend a little judgment. You know, you got to try something new. You got to take a little bit of risk. And that's another thing that I didn't bring up. You have to have sort of a risk-taking culture. It's okay to take risks. It's okay to fail.

7:23But, you know, we're going to keep at it until we win. But, you know, it's okay to not necessarily hit a home run every time. But I guarantee you, this cool ranch hamburger or cheeseburger is going to be something else. I'm hungry just thinking about it right now.

7:38David Novak:And if you were still there, I really hope you'd run with that idea because it sounds amazing. Maybe I can get the guys at Yum Brands to try it at Habit Burger. Gosh, that'd be amazing. Question number three. Peter emphasizes the importance of thrusting yourself into unfamiliar scenarios. He says that effective leaders are comfortable in, quote, alien environments. David, what's a story from your career where you entered into an alien environment and how'd you navigate it? Well, when I was CEO of Yum Brands, Jamie Dimon, who was on my board, asked me to go on the board of Bank One. Now, I am a marketing and operating guy.

8:19I'm not a finance person. So I walk into that environment. I'm walking in an environment where I don't really have the skills that almost everybody in the room has. So what I did there is I said, I'm going to leverage the skills that I have as well as I can and try to learn the other skills as I'm doing it. So, you know, what I was really good at was culture and working with people. And so what I did, We had at the time, I think, 16 directors, some were from Detroit, some were from Chicago. And I think one of the things Jamie wanted me to do is to try to bring the board together. And I think I used my skills to get everybody to work together on the board and ultimately reduce the board and make it a much more effective board.

9:00But that was something that I could do, you know, help improve the culture of the board. The other thing was, I knew a lot about retail because I was in the restaurant business. We had units all around the world. Well, Bank One had a lot of retail stores. And so I really could contribute on that front. So I started out by just figuring out how can I contribute by leveraging what I already know and that which is alien, that which is foreign, I tried to pick up as I was doing it so I could contribute and learn. And that's one of the reasons why I went on the Bank One board is because I wanted to learn about the things that I didn't know.

9:33And I think anytime you go into an environment where you know you don't know something or you don't know the industry, you just got to trust yourself that you're going to figure it out. You're going to figure out how to learn that industry and that you'll ultimately be able to contribute. And so I think you got to have a lot of trust in yourself that you'll get to the end line.

9:54David Novak:It illustrates such a great point, David, and you've made it many times. You don't go into an unfamiliar environment and try to be somebody you're not. That's a recipe for disaster. But you go into these alien environments, doubling down on what you know you're really gifted at and the unique value that you can bring to the table. Yeah. You know, you go into an alien environment with your eyes wide open and every alien environment that I went into that I was going to work in where I was going to have to learn something new. I went in with my eyes wide open, wanting to learn, knowing that that was going to be the joy.

10:31The joy was going to come from the learning. And I think you just kind of, what is it? What do we say? Flip the script. Okay. Hey, I'm not going to an alien environment. I'm going to an environment where I'm going to learn and really be able to make a difference. Flip the script.

10:44David Novak:So powerful. I love it. You know, it's how we choose to think about things. You have a choice and the choice is how are you going to think about it? The only person that thinks the way you think is you. So if you're not thinking correctly, change how you're thinking and flip that script. Well, if you are a Marvel fan, and I know that there are millions of you out there, millions of you Marvel super fans out there, listen to this episode because Peter gives you a behind the scenes look of how all of that magic comes to be before it hits the big screen. And it's really, really fascinating, especially if you love Marvel movies.

11:23And I do, and my grandkids do.

11:26David Novak:That's exactly right.

11:31David Novak:Well, David, that does it for our episode of three more questions for today. Thank you so much for tuning into How Leaders Lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you build the confidence you need to lead well. And coming up next on How Leaders Lead is my conversation with David Levy, the co-CEO of Horizon Sports and Experiences.

11:59Thank you.