#305: Harry Arnett, Cofounder & CEO, MUNICIPAL – Bet on yourself

29:19And we were noticing either they were searching for it on our site or they were reaching out to us directly. When is your footwear coming out? We didn't even have footwear, but they were asking us, when can we put your shoes on? And so we started to think about not let's do a shoe, but back to white sheet of paper. If there was a municipal shoe, what would it be? And imagining it that way, thinking about how we would want to launch it, who we'd want it on, what it would be for. And then again, we've kind of worked backwards from there of what's our best and fastest way to get there. And so we weren't stupid.

30:02We didn't launch a huge line of 20 shoes across, you know, 50 different SKUs or whatever. We launched one shoe, six colors, which was a lot, but we felt like that was important. And we sold out 20 ,000 run of shoes, which for a company our size is really big. We sold out in three weeks. So we, from there, we were sort of off and running. Wow. No pun intended. No pun intended on the run. I saw your eyes roll there, David. You know, and, you know, as I mentioned at the top of the show, you know, you're one of the best marketing people that I've ever, ever known. And, you know, I came up in the marketing world and, you know, sometimes you can get pigeonholed as a marketing person.

30:45And I remember you actually telling me you were a little irritated by that, you know. But how did you break out? I mean, what advice can you give to people who obviously have a towering strength that can be in marketing or could be in finance, you know, but you want to have broader responsibilities and be more of a general manager? What advice can you give people on the best way to grow yourself? Could you see me bristle a little bit when you said you're one of the best marketing people I know? And I was like, David, I've started a company for seven years. come on, man. I got to change your mind on that a little bit.

31:24Well, there you go. Well, you have. That's why I'm asking you the question. Actually, you kind of helped me with this a little bit, whether you intentionally did it or not. You said, I think when I mentioned that to you, you're like, that's the cool thing about these jobs is you can bring that with you into a new job and be a phenomenal CEO coming out of marketing. You can be a phenomenal general manager coming out of finance. You see that all the time. What's important is to be authentically you. And I think that the practical part of the career advice, I would say to people is try something that scares you that's not in your functional area of expertise.

32:02And when you get into it, get into those roles, bring with you the principles that made you good in that function. Sometimes it's even down to the actual stuff you were doing in that role. So when I got more general roles, either at Callaway or when I created one myself, I thought about this role, as I mentioned, as this is a people role. And I'm trying to create identity among all of the people at Municipal to create the belief inside that generates the energy that then we can transfer to the public. And so what am I good at? I'm good at communication, theoretically. What am I good at? I'm good at content.

32:40I'm good at connection. So I always thought through it more systematically. I'm saying this coming out of a marketing role is I'm really going to rely on those skills I have as a marketing person to then help me amplify and be a different kind of person in a general management role. Now, I never leapt over into something completely different. Like I never became a finance person or finance vertical or an operations vertical, but my guess is it works the same there if they're crossing over back and forth. But authenticity and I guess you helped me get over the stigma. It's only a stigma if you allow it to be.

33:19And I've always tried to not allow that to get in my way and take on challenges that really scared me and I realized would force me outside of the boundaries of what I felt like I already knew. What I hear you saying is you didn't want to run away from who you are. You leveraged your strengths and dug into the things that you basically needed to know that scared the heck out of you, at least at one point, your search towards being a good CEO and founder. And, you know, having said that, you'll never lose your creativity, okay? You'll never lose your desire to love customers and people. So when you're an incredibly creative person like yourself, how do you control yourself and your passion for ideas?

34:14This is a lifelong journey for me, David, because I also suffer from a healthy degree of attention deficit disorder. So my mind is going a thousand miles an hour. and um i think that that served me really well as a young person by the way creative uh i'm gonna give myself at least not a dummy and um and having a mind that works all the time over time and that can be exhausting but that's a different podcast for a different show david but um early on in my career that really helped me. That was probably a catalyst is I could outwork people, I could outproduce. If they asked for one idea, I could give them 10.

35:01I never was a copywriter in an ad agency, but I bet I would have been a good one because I could come up with a hundred different ways to say the same thing very, very quickly. And then as I realized that same talent and sometimes urge is actually a hindrance to being a great leader. And so I have still a work in progress, but I have tried to be in meetings, especially ones that are creative, to be a lot more curious about the problem than I am excited about the answer. And so that has really forced me to, in a lot of ways, be the last one to speak in meetings, because I'm trying to hold on to the other value that I have that goes with curiosity, which it goes with creativity, which is my own curiosity, is to hold that as more precious in some ways than my creativity.

36:01Whenever I do that, I find that I'm a better version of myself in those meetings. But it is a struggle. I got the devil on one side and the angel on the other. Speak first. you got great ideas. And the angel saying, I got to just wait and create an environment where the best ideas come and they're not going to come from you. You landed on a definition of culture as a CEO that I've never really never heard before. And you said, and I quote, it's how a group comes together to solve problems under stress. That's how you defined culture. It's how a group comes together to solve problems under stress.

36:37Explain. I mean, everybody gets along and feels great and is the most productive, creative versions of themselves when everything's going awesome. If, if, if I sit there at home and I walk in David and I've got my wife and two girls and I say, Hey, everybody, anybody up for going to get Thai food tonight? And everybody says, yes, culture's great. That doesn't happen very often. That does not happen very often. So how are the four of us going to come to a solution in times of stress when CJ wants tacos, Karis wants hamburgers, Kim wants a salad, and I, well, I want them all. So how is that, how are you going to come together to collaborate when times aren't so good?

37:26And if you have a, I know that sounds really simple, but if you think about the complexities of what comes into the room to solve those problems, you got politics, you got, maybe you have a culture that doesn't really look at the root problem. You tend to look at symptoms. Maybe you have a very fragmented or siloed organization where people think more about departmental optimization than they do company system optimization. That's going to show up when you try to tackle a problem. And so for us in the team, I think the part two of that to me really is culture is not something that you dictate.

38:10Culture is something that unfolds based on the environment that you create. And so in that environment, what's the one that's going to produce the kind of results you want? It's the environment when it's under stress. And I think for our team, at least, it's a good shorthand, too, to think about how they show up in those kinds of meetings when things can get tense. Not everybody wants to eat Thai. You've also said, Harry, that if you're shaky about your core values, don't start a company. You know, which one of your core values has been tested the most? One of mine is responsibility. and I think that it had really early, David.

38:54I mean, I mentioned, I was talking to you in August of 2019. You were said, what are you leaving this job for? Well, I had this thing that I feel like I want to do these co-founders. Okay. By March, COVID hit. So I had left my job in August. I'm making a lot less than I was. March rolls around. We had hired at that point 13 people, most of which I had known from the past that were part of my network. And our main investor pulled out. We had four days left to cash. Four. And so I could barely even peel myself up off of the ground when he called to say that they were pulling out and we only had four days left to cash.

39:39And so I think at that point, once I caught my breath, is thought about, okay, there are a lot of different options, but what's the one that stays closer to the things that are important to us? And one of mine is responsibility. And I felt a responsibility to the people that we had hired to keep going. And so we didn't lay anybody off, kept everybody employed at full salary. And the reason is because we were just unwilling to compromise on the responsibility and the commitments that we made. Where'd you find the cash? shook the couches, went into our retirement. All the three founders and I went into our own pockets and funded the thing and kept funding it.

40:32Because at that point, like I said, we had started it. We wanted to finish what we'd started. And we also knew that we had something special if we just hung in there. So it meant that much to us. We literally bet on ourselves. Yeah, that's fantastic. And now I want to shift gears for a minute, Harry, and I want to take you back a little ways. What's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today? I grew up in what can best be called an untraditional household. So, and I don't mean that in the way that people think of untraditional households today, but my dad was from the deep South.

41:10He was from a little town in Georgia and he chose a career in the arts in Atlanta, Georgia. So we were sort of outcasts in a weird way because we lived in Atlanta, Georgia. My dad didn't have an office job. If you went to our house, in any given day, you'd see museum collectors, artists, bohemians, dancers, entertainers, curators, you name it. Star Wars bar. That's what it looked like in our house. And, but what I didn't realize at that time was dad was doing a lot of what is I'm passionate about now was he was creating an environment where curiosity manifested itself and I grew up going to see artists on summer never went to summer camp we never went to beach as a family never went on a single traditional vacation we were driving around the southeast looking at artists and I think that the the the part that I remember about that was how it all ended um dad sort of crashed out for a period of time and what was entertaining and lively and joyous became really, really quiet.

42:33And that stuck with me because it made me really think about a lot of the subjects that are important to me now, one of which is mental health, which I'm talking about now. The other is, as I was mentioning, curiosity and sleeping on the back porch of artists in Mississippi's house in July. I bet not many people have done that, I've done it multiple times, is there's genius to be found if you're willing to look for it. Did you have, Harry, did you have like, you know, your dad had his own business. He was a famous art collector, you know, gallerist, you know, did you, you know, how much pressure did you feel to go in the family business?

43:19A lot, a lot. And dad, dad had a vision and he had his vision superseded really just what, what element of a business there was to support that. A lot of times it felt very hand to mouth. And so he had a very kind of a agrarian viewpoint on how the family should support family business. So I was expected to go into the fields as it were coming out, but he also was very encouraging for us as you would expect somebody that's interested in the arts and creativity to pursue whatever our passions were. And my passion was never really to grow up in a family business too chaotic, too crazy, too turbulent.

44:08So if you had asked me the 21-year-old version of myself, would I ever want to be an entrepreneur? I would say, no way. I need something way, way, way more stable. Yet here I am. Here you are now. Let's go back in time and I'll talk to the 21 version of myself. Don't do it. How many people do you have working for you now? They're all in, including our retail stores. I think we have 38 people that work here. So we're a nice size. 38, yeah, it's nice. I know everybody's name. How do you use AI? I mean, in a small company like that, I mean, what's your thinking about AI and how are you incorporating it into any of your strategies?

44:49I had somebody in here recently from the creative field that said they think we use AI here more than any brand they've ever seen. And I think that what surprised that person was that we use it more as a productivity tool and we use it as a generation of helping us flush concepts out tool. but I think that we've made, as you'd expect, we've made a concerted effort from day one to hire very, very creative people. And I think the creative people are finding the best ways to interface with it that sometimes can be related to their own creative process, inspiration, frameworks, mood boards, things that they used to take them days and days and days they can now do in literally half an hour, two hours.

45:44From me, I was telling someone recently on our board that I've probably done six of these comprehensive market studies, strategy, market entry decks in my life. And with AI now, with our data that we can plug into AI, it took me about two days to do what used to take three months. So we use it as absolutely as a productivity tool. I don't think that's going to change. I think that for us, what I try to do is making sure that we're not the creativity part and the new innovation part doesn't become subservient to AI because I personally have found that AI looks, it does a really good job of organizing things.

46:23It does a really good job of organizing thoughts, organizing data, data analysis to a degree, but what it doesn't do is think of new things. And so, you know, for us, that's the most important thing. So we, we always want to use it as a, as an enabler, but this is a scary time, David, I mean, we have a group of high schoolers that come in every summer to be fully immersed in our company. And all of them, now it's been almost 100 of them have come through over the last two summers. And every single one of them has some notion in their brain that they're going to get replaced by AI. And I say some version of it's only going to replace you if allows you to replace you, if you allow it to replace you.

47:05So think of yourself as not doing commodity work. And what's the best way to not do commodity work? Be creative and think of new ways of doing things. One of the things that you talked about earlier at Callaway, and I'm sure you're doing the same thing now that you're a municipal, is you're a belief driver. You got to give people a sense that it's actually going to happen. When you have a startup, you got to give people a sense that you actually will build a business someday. And you got to be out there leading the charge there. And, you know, I wanted to take you back to Callaway because one of the things that I remember you did at Callaway is that, you know, you went there and the business was down and, you know, people were depressed and they weren't winning.

47:49And you declared what you called a five-year war on mediocrity. And that's a bold thing to say out loud to your own company. And, you know, how'd they respond? I mean, it was like, you know, here you are coming in from the outside, basically tell everybody performing mediocre. I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but I didn't rehearse it and I didn't write that language down at all. And but what I really sensed, it was our first opportunity as a new leadership team underneath Chip Brewer to address for all all intents and purposes, our entire company at a sales meeting. And so my intention was really to tell them what kind of brand we were going to be and how we plan to show the brand and get behind product, you know, all the usual stuff.

48:49And I could tell standing up there that they wanted a different message than that. Because of course, some new marketing person is going to stand up and tell us that we have cool marketing coming. And if he's any good, and I think I'm okay, he's probably going to show us what it looks like. And we're probably going to like it. But the last 10 people that stood there in that kind of role did the same thing. And I could really sense that in that room. And so what they really wanted was us to say, we're going to win. We are going to win. It may not look like it now, but I can assure you that we are going to win.

49:31And we have the resources. We have the people. We have the capabilities. We have the scale. We have everything. What we don't have is a group of people that are all lining up under the same vision and rowing in the same direction. And the part that wasn't rehearsed is the war part. And it just came to me because I really saw it as the enemy, that the enemy wasn't tailor-made or Titleist or Pink. The enemy was right there in those walls. And for the people that were willing to accept not being number one. And that really resonated. I mean, people still talk about that to this day. And it was such a clear reminder that the momentum begins with the belief and creating a clear vision for people is the best way to get them to believe.

50:29And so Chip, as I walked off stage, he's like, hey, thanks for letting me know. We're declaring war, pal. I was like, no, no, I swear, I swear. But, you know, he saw it too. He was like, yeah, this is exactly what they need. They needed us to be able to have them believe that winning was not only possible, but it almost felt inevitable if we worked together. That's great. Harry, this has been so much fun. And I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? Fire away. What three words would your team use to describe you? They would say creative. They would say funny, probably.

51:08And they would say integrity. If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be? I might pick Mark just to see how the heck he does that. Because just looking at his schedule makes me tired. Your biggest pet peeve? Aside from people that I let in traffic that don't wave, it would have to be people that are ungrateful. Who would play you in a movie? Young me, let's go Tom Holland, because he's hot right now. Old me, I would say Robert Redford, although he just passed away, so that's not perfectly good. And Matt Damon was really good in The Odyssey, so I'd pick him if Mark doesn't want to do it, because he doesn't want to have to lose as much weight.

51:51The municipal piece you wear the most often. I have a bootleg, long-sleeve polo. I'm wearing it right now, actually. And my team laughs at me because I don't like showing my bare arms in office, but I like to wear a polo. So they made long-sleeve ones for me and I love it. If you could have lunch with Ralph Lauren, what's one question you'd ask him? How did he remain truly himself as his business got bigger and was obviously synonymous? Your lowest round of golf and where were you? I shot a 69 at Pacific Dunes in Bandon, which needs an asterisk because it was on a morning when there was absolutely no wind and it's still one of golf's most miracles.

52:33Not that there was no wind, but I was under par. The one thing you do just for you? Definitely golf. It's my escape hatch. Besides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession? Most prized possession. I have a piece of art hanging in my office that my dad gave me. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Oh, you're such a boomer, David. Nobody listens to the radio anymore. You're going to listen to either an old school wrestling podcast. I won't disclose why that might be. Or a playlist from all the concerts I've gone to with my daughter. What's something about you few people would know?

53:15I don't relax easily. I think that would shock people. I'm a really poor relaxer. What's a habit you have that's been instrumental to the success you've had? I'm never satisfied. I don't know if that's a habit because I don't like that about myself, but it has to do with that lack of enjoyment I mentioned earlier. I'm constantly thinking about how things can get better. Round of the lightning round. Great job. That's it? Oh, my gosh. I got a few more questions for you. I'll let you get back to work here. You know, at Municipal, you mentioned this a little bit earlier, you bring high schoolers in during the summer.

53:51You have a free program also teaching high school schoolers how brands are built. And I understand this idea came from your youngest daughter. You know, tell us about that. We were driving around one afternoon and she really has been brought up in this transition from Callaway to Municipal. And, oh, dad used to be a Callaway guy, and now you're a municipal. So she really has been switched on, my younger daughter, about it and has grown up with it. When COVID hit, I would go into the office. I'd be the only one there. I'd bring her with me. She just liked it. And so we're driving around one day.

54:32She's asking me a gazillion questions. I'm glad that day that I was listening to them. And she goes, this would be really cool, dad, if we gave other kids the opportunity to ask you stuff or learn about a municipal or learn about business. And I said, that's a massive idea. And you should build that. And so she was like, what do you mean I should build it? I was like, you should figure out what that means. Is it one day? Is it a podcast? Is it a video? video and so she came back and said what if they came to municipal for a day and they learned everything there is to know in a day and I said well I don't think they could do it in a day but how about a week and she's like that'd be cool you guys should do that I was like we're not going to do that you need to do it if you are that passionate about it you should make it happen and from that point on she got her school involved she got the local schools involved we posted it out on um our socials and we ended up having kids from all over the country that came in and learned about not just municipal, municipal is just the vehicle, but they learned about all the different functions and it gave them, we think, the idea or at least an education about what a real job is like and what they might be interested in.

55:47Fantastic. And what has your family taught you about leadership, Harry? Patience, communication. I tend to, when I'm under stress, I get quiet and I get reserved. I can maybe feel aloof. Now, family's different because they're around me. So like, I can't be that aloof. But they've really shown me a couple things that the impact of communication and the importance of support for sure. I could never have done this without my wife's backing and our kids being in it. We just talked about that. But you bring that into work and you think, OK, if those two things are really critical, people feeling supported and kind of constant communication so everybody knows where they stand, good, bad, or indifferent, that's a pretty powerful combination.

56:45Absolutely. And Harry, what do you see as your unfinished business, not only at municipal, but for you personally? It's a great question. You know, I go in these cycles and I think that for municipal, we have, obviously, there's a lot of growth in front of us. We're in massive categories. We're growing like crazy. So there's still opportunity for us to grow, continue to make great product, continue to expand into new categories, new adjacencies, as you said. And I think I'll be connected, obviously, to that growth somehow, whether that's operationally within the company, whether that's obviously as a co-founder, advisor.

57:36you know I've kind of I kind of thought about that question quite a bit because you know growth happens to me when when you start to see there's a version of yourself that's more compelling than the one you are right now and so I kind of think about that a lot it's one of the driving forces behind I think what's made life at least enjoyable for me. And so I really think that as we continue these transformations and these steps, I think as a real change agent here is important for me, for the company. And I think for me, it's to really never be satisfied. As long as I'm doing that, I think that I don't really think about roles or X's or boxes.

58:31I think of what do I have energy for? And what's going to continue to make me curious and what's going to continue to challenge me to exercise the good parts of me. Great. And last question here. What's one piece of advice you give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? Never forget, it's all about people. I think every strategy, every business plan, it all comes down to people executing them. and if as a leader you can create an environment where great people do great things that's pretty much it well Harry it's been great catching up with you and congratulations on all your success I'm glad Municipal's taken off and you know I'll take this free swag anytime you can send it to me and now I'm going to put these shoes on and I'm going to go out and play some tennis so thank you very much buddy I love it.

59:31Thanks for having me, David. It's great seeing you again.

59:38David, I loved that interview. It's, I always love hearing the founder perspective and what it really takes to start a business and get it off the ground. And I'm just so inspired by Harry's story and everything he's done with Municipal. Yeah, you know, I think one of the first big learnings that we got from Harry was to bet on yourself. I mean, even when he went into Callaway, we talked about that story where he told everybody there's going to be a five-year war on mediocrity. I mean, that's like putting it out there and now you got to deliver. And he had enough confidence that they could, that he could make a statement like that.

1:00:13And then he had to bet on himself to leave the safe corporate environment of Callaway, which he was a senior executive officer in. You know, people thought he was doing a great job and do a startup, you know, and he had to bet on himself. And then when they had the issue in COVID and they lost their number one investor, he and the co-founders had to get together and figure out how to raise the cash personally to keep everybody hired and move things along because they believed what they were working on, what they had was something that was going to be successful. So I think the first big insight I got from Harry and that I think everybody should take away from is the importance of betting on yourself and believing that something's possible.

1:00:55And he's actually a big belief builder. He built belief at Callaway and he's doing the same thing at Municipal and helping people understand that they can win. I love, too, that he's incorporated that into the brand of Municipal. The brand kind of asks their consumers to bet on themselves, too. He talks about when people put on Municipal gear, they become a different version of themselves. So I also love how that mindset has crept into the design of the product and the feel of the brand, too. Yeah, he's the individual that breaks the mold. And when you think about brand building, you know, they like the name municipal because it breaks the mold.

1:01:33It kind of, you know, makes you think what it is. But there's a real reason for municipal because of all the municipal golf courses, municipal pools, etc. It's a mainstream brand where they want to really create community. And, you know, he's a very creative person and finds ways to break through the clutter. And he's doing it at municipal. Another thing that I loved that he talked about the episode, David, is how he defines culture as really who you are under stress. Talk a little bit about your take on the way that he thinks about culture and what other people can learn from that. Well, I think what he's talking about is a work environment.

1:02:08If you have a really great work environment, people are going to stay true to who they are, no matter what the situation is. And they also want to do what needs to be done so that the company can or the brand can be successful. and it's easy to go along when things are great, but what are you made of when things aren't so great? And I think he makes a really great point there. You're going to find out how strong your culture is in the tough times because people aren't going to jump off the boat and people are going to believe in where you're headed and they're going to stay on track and help more importantly, help you get out of there.

1:02:41So, you know, I like the definition, but I think it's a great test of what a really good culture should do when it's being driven appropriately. He also talks a lot about, as part of your culture, building momentum and how important feeling that positive momentum can have on your team, especially in times of stress. And I just loved how he thinks about operationalizing momentum because it is such a powerful force. And if you can create that, it just gives people that extra oomph to do what it takes to really win. And I think, you know, one of the best ways to do that, Kula, is to use recognition and celebrate the first downs along the way.

1:03:25You know, when you're going into a turnaround situation or you've got a really tough project or you're trying to start a company, you know, it doesn't happen overnight. But he starts out with the end in mind that he has. He makes sure everybody on the team really understands what that is. And then you need to celebrate the first downs. the progress along the way. And then that momentum builds on momentum, builds on momentum. I always felt it was great to have a great year after you had a good year, okay? Because you can build off of that. If you have that bad year, it's tougher because you just can't believe the negative inertia that comes from people not believing.

1:04:05And your job as a leader is to define the reality that needs to be dealt with and then create hope and then push for the execution that'll ultimately get you there. It's obvious too in this conversation, David, that Harry has really evolved as a leader. I mean, you asked him about what it feels like to be pigeonholed as a marketing person. And he talked a little bit about the process he went through to get out of that pigeonhole and really demonstrate that he was capable of much more than just marketing. Talk a little bit about how others can do the same. If they're seen as one thing, but want to be seen as something different?

1:04:42Well, I think the important thing to do is to understand how you are seen, define reality for yourself, and then develop an action plan

1:04:53to change the perception that people might have of you if you are pigeon-told as a finance person or a marketing person, operations person. It really doesn't matter. You have to know what you have to get better at and then get better at it. And I think, you know, when you're really a great marketing person, you know, for example, that that's your core strength and you love it. It's easy to stay right where you're at. But, you know, what he talked about doing was do something that makes you uncomfortable, something that scares the hell out of you. And that's usually moving into an area that you know nothing about and diving in and learning about it so that you can be capable of it.

1:05:34And, you know, I think that's important. I think it's also important to have mentors and coaches that can help you get there. So when you go there and you ask for the experience that you need to grow yourself, they're going to give it to you. And I think that takes courage as well. But it all comes back to if you're going to bet on yourself, you better make yourself better and keep improving so that you have more and more value to whatever entity you happen to be a part of. He talks about it in the conversation too, David, you know, pivotal to evolving as a leader is self-awareness. And you talked about defining reality for yourself.

1:06:12But I think it's very clear that Harry, as he became more self-aware, especially around his creativity and the things that he was good at, he was then able to more swiftly move into a different sort of position. So, I mean, we talk about it a lot on this show, but it's just so critical to have that self-awareness and really understand not only how others see you, but how you exist in those environments. Yeah, and he has lots of ideas, so it'd be easy for him, like he says, to go in a meeting and tell everybody we ought to do this, we ought to do that, we ought to do this. but I think he's learned to keep his, uh, he keep, you know, keep his listening mode into full, uh, uh, full gear until the end.

1:06:49And then maybe he can kind of chime in at the end and summarize and, uh, inspire people to, to move on what might be the best ideas. So, you know, I've always felt that if you're a creative person or a leader, you've got to, you got to be able to go into the room by yourself. And if you have to come up with an idea. Okay. Yeah. Now, hopefully you can get those ideas from other people, inspire other people to make that happen. But sometimes, you know, the leader just has to go in a room, come up with an idea and believe in it and then, you know, get other people to believe in it. So it's the combination of bringing out other people, but also knowing that if you don't have that idea, you better get one.

1:07:31And your job is to make sure you have one. And so you can only delegate so far, but you definitely want to make that your job number one. Absolutely. So David, other than going out and, you know, maybe purchasing a municipal hoodie, what do you want people to leave this conversation really thinking about? Well, I think number one, we talked about it. Bet on yourself. Number two, you know, remember that your culture is really tested under times of stress. And that's when you can find out how much progress you're really making. And third, you know, evolve as a leader. Know what you have to get better at and come up with a game plan and action plan that allow you to do just that.

1:08:12I think those are three of the many insights that I picked up from Harry. And it was great reconnecting with him and seeing the success that he is generating with his team. I love it. Well, David, thank you again for another episode of How Leaders Lead. Thank you, Harry, for joining us for the show. And thank you, of course, to our listeners. Tune in next week and we will see you soon.

1:08:40Thank you.