How to gossip — the right way (w/ Rachelle Hampton)

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1:31you're listening to how to be a better human i'm your host chris duffy what you're about to hear is a special live episode of our show this was taped at the 2025 on air festival in brooklyn new york and we recorded this in a very fancy event space at a hotel in williamsburg that felt like it might be too cool for me to even be allowed into but somehow they did let me in And the result is this episode of our show. So our guest on this episode is Rachel Hampton. Rachel is the new host of Normal Gossip, which is one of my all-time favorite podcasts. If you're not already familiar with it, the way Normal Gossip works is that on every episode of their show, the hosts and guest dissect a true juicy story from a real person who's not a celebrity.

2:15So that's the normal part of Normal Gossip. And they go deep into these niche worlds and the drama in them. So some of my favorite episodes involve like the world of knitting or the world of chair restoration or a homeowner's association. You get the idea. Rachel and her team, they're masters of the art of telling a good story, of hooking the listener and of transforming the kind of mundane details of a regular person's life into an edge of your seat thriller. I think you're going to love listening to Rachel talk just because she's such a fun and enjoyable person. but I hope that you also get some real takeaways from her about how to find more excitement and connection in your life by paying really close attention, by identifying and sharing the juicy details, and by getting excited to debrief what happens in your life with your friends and with your family.

3:03Here is our live episode at On Air Fest. All right. Thank you all so much for being here. And Rachel, thank you so much for doing this. Of course. I'm so happy to be here in the beautiful penthouse. I know. Look at this view. It truly is. Yeah. It's a gorgeous, I assume if you're listening to this, you're not seeing this, but it's absolutely beautiful. I'm so sorry. Well, Rachel, just to jump right into it, what have you learned about the mechanics of what makes a juicy story good? Because I feel like sometimes you think you have good gossip and then it turns out that everyone you're telling it to is just very, very bored by it.

3:38So how do you actually tell a juicy story? I think the devil is in the details. I think so often you can have the bones of a good story. And then once you start telling it, you're like, this is every other story I've heard about an E &M couple in Brooklyn. How do I make this more interesting? And so much of it is like, oh, well, you know, the wife, she is a art critic and the husband is an architect and they met here. And then you play into how their relationship came together. And so I think it's mostly about detail, context, setting. Unfortunately, the things you learn in like fourth grade English literature when you are learning how to deconstruct a story.

4:23Are you were you just making that up? That was a lie. Yeah. Cool. Also lying. Lying? Yeah. Well, it also seems like having the right amount of background info. Right. So like E &M. Don't know what that stands for. Not going to be easy to follow the story. Yeah. If someone doesn't know what E &M stands for, what is E &M?

4:46It stands for ethical non-monogamy, which is the latest fad in Brooklyn to avoid commitment. Okay. And so, you know, sometimes people get bogged in all of the background where they're like, let me explain the history of ethical non-monogamy and where the term comes from and why we use it. And then you actually haven't heard anything about the architect and the artist that you actually wanted to hear. But then other times they don't give you enough and so you're just clueless. One of the things that I think normal gossip does so well and so fun about the show is in the middle of a story, you pause and you say, how are you feeling?

5:22And then you also say, like, what's going to happen next? So tell me about those are very intentional moments in the show. Tell me about those. I mean, I think that when you have gossip, you really, really want to tell it. But I think one of the most important things about gossip is the other person who's receiving the gossip. I think that their reactions and what they bring to the story is actually what makes it sing. I think pausing to check in and figuring out what the person you're talking to is actually interested in is really important. where if it's the artist and the architect, if you're talking to someone who is not a creative, they don't really give a fuck about the art that's in this couple's living room.

6:06But if you know someone who knows art really well, you're like, well, they have this Basquiat, but it's kind of, I think it's a knockoff. And that says a lot about that couple. But if you said that to someone who doesn't know who Basquiat is, it doesn't really matter. So it really depends on who's receiving the gossip and what is really kind of snagging on them. And then you can hone in on the details that they actually want, which makes the entire enterprise just more collaborative. I think gossip is a very collaborative sport. See, this is also the thing that I think is fun. Like, obviously, we're in a room where a lot of these people are podcast people.

6:43This is a podcast festival. So I didn't mean to break that to you. But as a result, like, I'm sure people have thoughts about how they can use this in their own creative work. But even if you're someone who does not have a podcast of their own, they're not someone who's thinking about this as like hosting a show. I feel like this is the piece that anyone can use, which is like pay attention to the person who you're telling a story to. What are they going to care about? What do they need to know? And then how can you hook them even more? Because for me, like I'm a huge fan of the show. And before I listen to normal gossip episodes, often I do not care at all about some of the topic.

7:19And then afterwards, now I'm like, she had acrylic wool? Oh my God, that's shocking behavior. Exactly. And that's because like you get invested. Or like when I first listened to the episode that takes place at like a kid's park, I didn't have a kid. So I had no familiarity with like the internal politics of the trampoline zones. But then you listen to that and afterwards I'm like, I cannot believe they brought peanut butter cupcakes in. They know there's a nut allergy. Yeah, exactly. And so you can really all of a sudden get this person hooked by taking them along on the journey and giving them the right little clues.

7:54Do you find that that plays out in your regular life outside of hosting the podcast now? Oh, definitely. Whenever anything happens in my life, I'm immediately thinking of how I will tell this story to the four people who I talk to the most regularly. And I'm thinking of the details that I will tell them about the event. And I will not give anyone a full view of the event because they don't need that. That's kind of boring. That's my experience. That's for my therapist. For my friends who just want the gossip, I'm like, okay, I'm going to tell this friend who's really into crafting that they were wearing a sweater that I'm pretty sure that it was hand knitted, but I'm not sure where.

8:32Or I will tell a friend who's really into Shakespeare that this person kept misquoting Hamlet while we were talking. And I didn't know that until I looked it up later. So I think with each story that happens in my life, I'm on a bad date. I'm 100 % thinking about like, oh, this is how my best friend is going to hear this story. And it's going to be great. I feel like when I think about gossip in my own life, it's often really like money or sex related stuff. And I feel like you all do such a good job of getting gossip that is not just in those two categories. So how do you do that? Like on a meta level, how do you actually get gossip that's not just, and she slept with this other person and he's sleeping with the teacher or whatever it is.

9:16Yeah, we put out calls for gossip at the beginning of every season. So this season, I'm going to try and remember what I asked for. We asked for, we did ask for sex gossip. We asked for specifically polyamory gossip. We asked for road trip gossip, megachurch gossip, fandom gossip, tabletop gaming gossip, which we did get, by the way. So I do think most people's instincts when you talk about gossip are to think who's sleeping with who. And I think those things can be window dressing to a story because those are often the most fun dynamics to think about. But I think getting a really good setting that feels both very specific, but also very understandable from anyone's point of view is pointing people in the right direction.

10:05Sometimes they don't think they have gossip. And then you're like, what's going on in your Dungeons and Dragons game. And they're like, whoa, you're right. We did lose a member of our team because they lied to us about their character sheet. And you're like, thank you. Tell me more. And how do you keep the gossip from being mean? Like, it doesn't feel like your show is ever mean spirited. So how do you keep that from being the case? I think we try to make sure every one of our characters, you could kind of understand where they're coming from in a story. I think when we receive gossip, sometimes there's very easy villains, which makes sense when you are the protagonist of a gossip, you're like, she sucked, which is fair.

10:46But you also have to think about as the person receiving the gossip and turning it into a story, like, why did she suck? In what specific way did she suck? Is the way that she sucks understandable because of where she comes from? And you kind of built those details in where it's like, I don't want anyone, if I'm telling them gossip, I don't want anyone to be on the side of the person I'm complaining about. But when I'm writing a story for normal gossip, I want someone in the audience to be able to empathize with the person who is being complained about. This is another thing that I love about the show is I feel like you clearly have a good time.

11:22Like you're laughing and you're enjoying it. That's contagious, right? Like I feel like there's a real, it's fun to hear other people have genuine fun. And especially when the world is full of horrible things happening. It's even more fun to be like, at least someone is having fun out there. At least Rachel's having fun for the rest of us. How much of that do you consciously do? And how much of that do you think is just naturally coming through because you just love doing this? Well, I love this job. I talk about that all the time. This is my dream job. It's one of the few jobs that exist in media right now that don't require me to be on Twitter or understand what Elon Musk is doing, which is just great for my brain.

12:01It's definitely very conscious as well in that I always want the guest to feel comfortable interjecting. That's actually one of, I think, the biggest technical things with the show is that with most interviews, for example, you're conscious of crosstalk. You want them to not speak over you. But in normal gossip, those little interjections are often the funniest moments. And so I'll often cut myself off or just make a little off color joke or start laughing because it helps the guests warm up and feel like they can do that as well, which is really what makes it really fun. But I'm also someone, I say this all the time, I'm a hee hee ha ha ass bitch.

12:44I am always laughing. I'm really glad that people find it contagious. I've definitely had people never read the Apple reviews, but so many people in my last show were like, why is she always laughing? And I was like, why do you hate fun? So it's, it's, it's a, it's a balance between being understandable and clear and speaking, but also, yeah, having fun, laughing as much as you would want someone to laugh when you tell them a funny story. Yeah. It's also so rare that you get a good like, he, he, ha ha. You know, I think that's a great noise. I'm always he, he, and it might come out at some point.

13:25I will say as a comedian that the worst thing you can ever hear is when someone just goes, ha. Like, I actually think a single ha is the worst noise that can be made. I don't know if I could naturally make that sound. Ha. Yeah, ha. When you tell someone a joke and they go, ha, that's funny. You're like, that is way worse than you saying, I hate you. You're my enemy now. Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm my own enemy when that happens. I'm like, I'm going to go home and absolutely look in the mirror and think, why have I done the things that I've done that got me to this place? It's time to start gossiping about that person who said ha.

14:00What was their life that led them to start saying ha? You don't even, you could just make like a hmm. Oh, that's so much better. Hmm is so much better. Or like, I'll do a hmm. Like, you know, you can have other little noises of amusement that signal you're not really that amused. But to say ha? No. And also, I mean, God bless the snort people. Like one snort can make up for the ha lady for sure. One of my best friends snorts. And whenever it comes out, I'm like, got you. It's so good. And they're always embarrassed. And you're like, don't be embarrassed. You are giving us a gift. Snort more, please.

14:32Yes, snort more. Snort more. That is, if there's one thing I can bring into the world, snort more. That's the lesson of this podcast right now. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I will say one time I did, this room is, you know, maybe under a hundred people is kind of an intimate room. And one time I did a comedy show in a room, similar size, also fully lit. and a woman in the front row just said, hmm, not for me. I'll think about that till the day I die. Low-key, iconic. Absolutely. Who is she? She was a - From the front row? She was. If one of you said that right now. A white-haired queen of the Upper West Side.

15:08My favorite kind of lady. Absolutely.

15:14We're going to take a quick break, but then we will be right back with more from this special live episode. Don't go anywhere.

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18:04And we're back. Okay, here's a big question for you, which is, what even is gossip? It's like talking about someone when they're not there, I think is probably the easiest way to define gossip. But I feel like gossip is kind of the space in between truth and fiction. And is there a point? To gossip? Yeah. I think that it teaches us about how we want to be in the world. I think often when we are gossiping about people, they're doing something that we kind of disapprove of or that we think is a little weird or is different from the way that we live our lives. And I think that what sticks out to us in gossip often has to do with our own positionality in the world.

18:52And that if someone was just living their life the way we lived, we wouldn't gossip about them. We would just be like, that's a person. They seem fine. But when they start doing things that are notable or in some way, I don't want to use the word deviant, in some way different from the way that we expect someone to live their lives, I think is when we start gossiping. People often think about gossip as a vice. I think that I'm not putting words in your mouth to say that you think of it as a virtue. Can you talk about that? Yeah, I mean, I do think being good at gossip is a virtue because there are many, many ways to be bad at gossip.

19:33I think that you can be just in gossip for malicious intent where you are storing up information on people to deploy at your leisure, which I kind of respect. I'm not going to lie, but I don't think I would say that's necessarily a virtue. I think being the kind of repository of gossip, being that person that everyone comes to when they want to gossip, just means you're a good listener. But I would say largely that gossip is kind of neutral. I think that gossip can just be harmless. I think it can be harmful. I think it depends on what you're using it for, what you're doing with it, what the kind of end point of it is.

20:19Um, so I would say like net neutral. Let's test it out and see if it is net neutral by getting some gossip from people here. So does anyone have a piece of gossip that they would be willing to share with us? Thank you. There's a person right here. We can give the microphone to you. My name is Kate Downey. Uh, I grew up in rural Maine. Uh, my parents still live there, very involved with the small community. The guy that plows the roads, there's one guy in the town, plows all the roads. you have to be friendly with him or he will do yours last. Wow. And so he gets a lot of presents and invites to a lot of things.

20:54The problem is he is 78 and he's still, he won't stop because it has like given him so much power in the town and he won't give up the town contract. And so a group of young people, like a group of the young guys who are like in their fifties and sixties, uh, forcibly took over, not forcibly, Like there was not violence, but they like, a snowplow coup is, I did not, the fact that seconds into asking for gossip we're at a snowplow coup in Maine is incredible. I am so close to doing my own podcast about it, but yeah, they tricked, they basically tricked him into giving them the keys to the snowplow and they just started plowing instead.

21:39Oh my God. I have many questions. Also, what a fitting metaphor for the world we live in. An older generation holding on to perks and benefits and refusing to give up to the younger generation. And he, like, shouldn't be driving a car. That was one of the questions. Should he be driving? No. Okay. Like, he didn't kill anyone, but, like, he didn't do a good job. My question is, if you don't give a present, you do still get your area plowed. It's just later in the plowing. It depends. I would hate to have to deal with this man, but I unfortunately do think he's an icon. When did he start? How long was his reign?

22:21So my parents have lived there since right before I was born. So 36 years. Oh, my God. And it's been the same guy the whole time. Wow. One thing that I want to know is, like, there must be, I'm assuming people aren't just handing off cash. So, like, what is the hierarchy of bribes? Like if you give him a home-baked brownie, that's better than if you give him six apples. Like what gets you to the top of the plow line? Maybe he really likes apples. Could be an apple. I don't know. It's a really good question. My mom does these like Norwegian Christmas cookies every year and gives him like a big tin of them.

22:55And I think she also lets him hunt on our land without a permit. The snow plow man must taste blood. Oh my god. Which is a very common thing in rural Maine of like, you can just hunt on my land, it's fine. This is a whole scheme. Yes. It's an economy. Blood of the plow is going to be hard to beat. Does anyone have another specific piece of gossip that they would like to share? Back there. Okay, hi, I'm Devante. So one of my best friends is getting married later this year. and four months before the wedding, the person who was officiating the wedding confessed their feelings to both my best friend and their partner.

23:41Wow, full disclosure. At the same time? At the same time. They were both there. They were both there. In what context? How'd that conversation go? You know, pretty well, because they're now in a throuple. I was going to ask which one, but it was both. I was really hoping that's where this was going. Because when you said both friends, I was like, they could let this drive them apart. Or. And if you didn't know we were recording in Brooklyn, you do now. Wow. Okay. Now, my obvious question, did they go through with the ceremony then? So, well, it hasn't happened yet. Oh. So all of this has happened before the wedding.

24:24Okay. The wedding is in May. Who knows? It could crash and burn. I think they should get I think they should get another a new officiant and then it can just continue adding kind of like Is he still officiating or did they get someone else? So they're still officiating they use they them pronouns and I'm trying to stay as far away from it as possible even though I'm in the bridal party No You don't have to insert yourself but you need to start doing individual dinners with all three members of this throuple and just being so curious, so inquisitive. Just how are you feeling? That seems really hard to handle.

25:06Do you need any help? I also think that person should teach, they should be teaching a master class on communication to have successfully created a throuple when they were confessing. That's absolutely best case scenario. It had to be. While they're planning a wedding. Yes. As soon as it happened, I was like, they've been engaged for like nine months. You're waiting until like three before they actually get together to confess the feelings. Did you ask why, what prompted them? Also, wouldn't it be kind of iconic during the wedding if they said when anyone, does anyone have any objections?

25:44It's less of an objection and more of a proposition. Right? Why not? Oh man, I think I'd have to pass away right there on the spot. But what a way to die. You're right. It would be iconic to die at someone else's wedding before they get married to a third person. Well, I certainly think that we are not going to do better than what we have done in those two pieces of gossip. Please give a round of applause to those people. Fantastic work.

26:20Okay, we're going to take a quick break. There's a lot to digest there. We're going to take a minute to process all that, and then we will be right back.

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28:14And we're back. I feel the most acute jealousy I've ever felt in my life that this is what you do for a living now. I can't lie. Any day I wake up and I'm like, oh, I can't believe I have to work today. I just think, Rachel, you just get to hear people's problems all day and you don't have to fix them. It's incredible. It's a best case scenario being a therapist. Oh, incredible. OK, what about like where do you get good gossip? Like a regular person. They're not people aren't coming up. Where do you get it on the streets? Are you on the subway listening in? Like, what's the best place for a regular person to hear some hot, juicy gossip?

28:50I think walking around in the world without your headphones on is really helpful. We are lucky in that we're in New York City. And truly, if you sit on the train long enough, you will encounter some good gossip. I have been in the back of an Uber and gotten good gossip. I have been walking through the streets and heard someone say, you won't believe what happened, turned my music down and said, tell me more. so I think just being alive and awake to the world helps you get good gossip but I also think going into situations with the idea of getting gossip makes you more aware of potential gossip that you could start observing I think every moment is kind of full of gossip I'm sure I'll have gossip about this event afterwards oh this event is full of gossip That's for sure.

29:43Yes, absolutely. It also seems like, you know, you're a writer and I think writers often have the very like perked up ears to clips of little dialogue that is floating around. And that's the best. It's so good to do that. You know, I think that idea of like not just being zoned out or also that we have the ability to fill all of our seconds these days. Like you can be listening to a podcast and then move straight from that into like watching a video into being at home, like taking a shower and there's never like a moment where you're just alone or also like having the world intrude on you. And I think that's often where like the really fun stuff happens.

30:21I think so as well. I also think being quite frankly alone with your thoughts helps gossip. I think that the moments that your mind keeps returning to in an interaction are often the things that are most interesting. It's like, why do I keep thinking about that? I've heard sometimes friends who are doctors have told me that there's a – I've heard that this is called like the doorstop moment. I don't know if that's true. But that like one thing they teach you in medical school is that often if someone comes in like right at the end of the checkup, they'll go like, and one more thing. And like that was the whole point of the checkup.

30:54So they could be like – and also like is it weird that I've been bleeding for my ears at night? And you're like, yeah, that's – I'm glad you asked about that. And I think like sometimes – I've been listening to a lot of fish.

31:07But there's like a lot of, a lot of those moments that happen like at the very end where you think you're done and you have to like, always in an interview, the single best moments are when you're like, and the interview is done. And then they say the most interesting thing. Exactly. So I've learned over the years, you got to keep the tape rolling. Yeah. I think the silence is usually what people choose to fill the silence with says a lot. Just the thing that you made me think of because you were talking about like places where you hear gossip is I feel like a lot of times if you're like in a crowded diner or a restaurant.

31:38Like this morning, I met up with a person in a diner and we were just sitting in a totally regular diner, like Midtown Manhattan diner. And in a lull in our conversation, the person next to us, a stranger, got up and was thanking the waiter. And they said, this was the best meal I've had in my entire life. and we were both like, what happened to you in your life that this was the best meal you've had? And like, those are the moments where I'm, for me, my entire trip to New York City is defined by hearing that one person say that. Yeah. That's why I came here is to hear that man and think like, this was just a regular diner.

32:13What's going, do you say this to every single waitress you've ever spoken to? It didn't even occur to me that he could be lying. Oh, he could be lying. Oh, he said it so genuinely that I was like, I have to help you. If a man says something, probably lying. That's true. That's true. You have, and this is something, anyone who listens to normal gossip knows, you have deep insight into the male psyche. Working at Defector has really helped with that because it's work-your-own, but it's also a sports media website. And I know nothing about sports. I very recently learned the Chicago Bears are a bad team, and my dad loves the Chicago Bears.

32:48I was like, there's no way you're spending all your time rooting for a bad team. Turns out he was. That's gossip. but working with all of these men i'm like wow there's some good to be found here and that really does help me move through the world that's hilarious and also um you had a moment in one of the episodes of the podcast where you dissected what uh straight male friendship is in a way that i've never heard someone dissected so perfectly that you were like there's a lot of men out there who just they just kind of zone out with their friends and then at the end they know no facts about their life at all, but they've been hanging out for four hours and they couldn't tell you a single thing about that other person.

33:27And this is why they don't get good gossip. Whenever I am with men, I mean, it's really nice when you're going through something hard that you can just have a dinner with two men and they won't ask you a single question about your personal life. Low-key, slay. But you have to ask your friends about what their love lies. There are so many people I know who I'm like, so your friend, how does he feel about his girlfriend? and they've been seeing each other for a while and he's like, couldn't fucking tell you. And I'm like, are they getting married? And you're like, I don't know. And it's like, what are you talking about all day?

33:58I'm being honest. This does not reflect well on me, but I know so much more about my male friends now because I know when I'm hanging out with them, I will be held accountable when I come home that my wife will ask that question. Like I literally am hanging out with them and I'll go, she's gonna ask how their relationship is doing. I better ask, how is your relationship doing? And then I find out a lot about them. Yes. It's really helpful. Yeah. That's the only reason I do it now is because I'm like, I'm going to have to, there's a test afterwards. You have to start at some point. Yes. And at some point you'll just be interested in how their relationship is going.

34:33Oh, it turns out I am interested. I just was like, it didn't even occur to me that we wouldn't just talk about like a random online comedy sketch that we saw 15 years ago for four hours straight. What is overdone gossip wise? Like we talked about maybe like love and cheating is a little overdone. Or what is the kind of gossip that you don't want to hear again? And the flip side of that, what kind of gossip should we be hunting for? I'm kind of tired of toxic friendship gossip. Mostly because once you get to that point, I kind of think both people are toxic. And it can – you ever have the feeling where your friend's telling you a story and at first you're like, yes, pop off, queen.

35:14and then she keeps going and you're like oh you might be the person who's wrong here and I don't really know if I should say that right now and that's really hard to deal with um and also it just means you're not really getting a full story because they're looking at the friendship through this such a specific lens and they're like this person's evil and it's Like, sounds like they just were hungry, but sure. So I'm kind of tired of people who are just like, I'm going to cut my friend off. This is how I cut my friend off. And it's like, we only get so many friends in a lifetime. Work through it.

35:54And then gossip that I'm never tired of. Maybe because I'm not a parent and I don't foresee myself being one for a long time. But inter-parent drama is very fascinating to me. any drama that has to do with having to be around people you otherwise would not choose to spend your time around so like work family parenting I feel like when you're a parent you're like this is my kid's friend's parents so I have to be friends with them and you're just stuck in this situation and I love that shit it is also interesting when you I have a 14 month old so like in that first two years of parenting and it's really interesting that I haven't had many other times in my life where you talk to someone and you're trying to feel out what is normal for you might be like absolutely a cardinal sin for them where they're like and of course we use what kind of diapers reusable or disposable what kind of wipes and do you let your baby feed itself or do you feed the baby and screen time and whatever you answer you're like one of these you're going to hate me and one we're going to be friends yes you so rare that you like declare an alliance in those ways in other ways.

37:05It's such a minefield. And I think that's what makes it very interesting. There's a lot of politics and parenting with very innocuous questions and it's like decoding a new language. Okay. And what is the best place for people to get gossip online? I feel like there's a lot of bad gossip online, but where do you get gossip online? I think any gossip you find online has to be taken with a grain of salt because I think so much of gossip and what makes is good is trusting the person, the gossip bearer. You trust their point of view. You trust that they're telling you the important details. So I think of gossiping online less as finding someone to tell me something and more as like, I'm going to get 27 different perspectives of one moment.

37:48And then I'm going to figure out what I think. This is how I watch Love is Blind, basically. Where I watch the show and then I'm like, Love is Blind subreddit. Love is Blind YouTube video breaking down what happened. Love is blind Twitter. Love is blind chat with my friends. And then by the end of it, I'm like, now I know how I feel about this. So I would say gossip should be found. If you're going to go on Reddit, just if you don't know those people, don't trust them. You can read what they say, but don't take that on board as your own. That's what I would say. Most of it's probably lies. I mean, that's extremely good advice for just being online in general.

38:22You can read what they say, but don't trust it. Yeah. And that's fine. I think there's sometimes something not being true makes it more fun, but you have to know that it's not true. It's like when you know you're being delusional, you have to know you're being delusional. And yet, if you know you're being delusional, in some ways, you're not delusional. It's active choice. It's an active choice to be delusional. Now that is, I think, a perfect place to end, which is sometimes you have to actively choose to be delusional. And I do it every single day. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Rachel. Thank you so much for being on the show.

38:56This is so fun. Thank you.

39:04That is it for this episode of How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Rachel Hampton. The new season of Normal Gossip premieres Wednesday, April 9th. Do not miss it. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and you can find more from me, including my weekly newsletter and other projects, at chrisduffycomedy.com. You didn't hear this from me, but How to Be a Better Human is put together by a team filled with intricate drama and messiness. On the TED side, we've got Daniela Bollarezzo, Ban Ban Chang, Chloe Shasha Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lott, Antonia Leigh, and Joseph Debrine.

39:36This episode was fact-checked by Julia Dickerson and Mateus Salas. For them, gossip is an incorrectly cited journal article in a bibliography. They cannot believe it. On the PRX side, their ears perk up every single time you say something juicy. Morgan Flannery, Norgil, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez. Thanks again to you for listening. You are the listeners. You make this show exist. Please tell everyone you know about our show. Spread the word. Whisper it. Shout it. Write it on a bathroom wall. Share this episode with a friend or a family member who you think would enjoy it. We will be back next week with even more How to Be a Better Human.

40:15Until then, take care and thanks for listening.

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