Alex Hassell - Rivals, Rejection and Taking Acid at Alton Towers

0:00Genuinely, I think the tennis court scene, taking all of my clothes off and literally having nothing to hide behind. It's like either I am Rupert or I'm not. Hello and welcome to How To Fail. This is the podcast where each week I ask a guest about three times they failed in life and what it taught them about doing things better. This week we have the actor Alex Hassel on the podcast. Now many of you might know him as Rupert Campbell Black from the Disney Plus TV series Rivals, the adaptation of the terrific Jilly Cooper novel. He did me the honour of sitting down opposite me in front of a live audience at London's Barbican.

0:42And we spoke about three of his failures in life. Spoiler alert, it involves being allergic to onions. I hope you really, really enjoy it. I am so excited about the news that the second season of Rivals is currently being filmed. I can't wait. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Now, I know a little bit about building a website because I was pretty hands on when I launched my own production company and its own website. And I wish Squarespace had been around then because it ultimately makes your life so much easier by providing built in solutions all with their best in class design. And I'm not the only one who feels this.

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2:51In 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your£1 pound per month trial and start selling today at shopify.co.uk slash fail. Go to shopify.co.uk slash fail. Here you're first. This new year with Shopify by your side. So my guest tonight is the actor Alex Hassel. Yes, and he is thoroughly deserving of those whoops. You'll have seen him most recently in the smash hit TV adaptation of Jilly Cooper's Rivals. and when I say seen him I really mean you will have seen him all of him. Hassel played the irrepressibly attractive bounder Rupert Campbell Black and managed to give that somewhat dastardly character a soulful quality that left both taggy and a legion of viewers absolute putty in his strong spray-tanned hands.

3:54Hassel's own life is a far cry from Rupert's debauchery. He was born in Southend-on-Sea in Essex, the son of a... Yes! Big up the Essex massive! The son of a vicar and a nurse who had four children and fostered more. Hassel was 12 when he went to watch a local musical and realised acting was his future. After school in Chelmsford, he studied at Central School of Speech drama where he met his wife, the actress Emma King. Before Rivals, Hassel appeared in a number of theatre roles, including Henry V for the Royal Shakespeare Company in the Next Door Barbican Theatre ten years ago. He was also in the TV adaptation of The Miniaturist alongside Anya Taylor-Joy and the BBC HBO fantasy series His Dark Materials.

4:43His recent film roles include Young Woman in the Sea with Daisy Ridley, and he is the co-founder of the Factory Theatre Company, which he set up partly to be able to act when the roles weren't coming in. Rejection is, of course, a given in any actor's life. When asked recently how he coped with it, Hassel replied, therapy, and a really good marriage. London, please welcome to the stage, Alex Hassel.

5:15Thank you. That was amazing.

5:21Oh, Alex, are you sick of people objectifying you? No. Okay, good, good. I'm glad to hear it. So, Alex Hassel, tell us about season two of Rivals, which has just been commissioned. We're very, very excited. Well, unfortunately, Rupert dies in the first episode. No, he doesn't. And there's not much I can tell you, probably because I actually don't know anything, because they won't tell us, because they don't trust actors to keep secrets. But I'll probably be on a horse. I'll probably take my clothes off again. I don't know how many or how much. We haven't had those conversations. But yes, I believe most of the cast, without spoiling anything, are back.

6:07Some of them may not be, who knows. But yeah, just very, very much excited about doing it. How many spray tans did you have to have for season one? I smelt like biscuits for seven months. I mean, weekly spray tans. I got to know my makeup artist extremely well. I bet. She would have to spray tans. The only bit that she wouldn't spray was when we did the tennis court scene, so I had to spray myself. But I've never done a spray tan before, so I don't know how much one should do. So there was a fear that I might be too dark or too light. I wasn't sure. I think we got away with it. depends on the surface area exactly exactly now um i wanted to end on that quote about therapy and a really good marriage because your wife is also an actor and i wonder if it helps being married to someone who gets it who understands the pressures yes obviously i don't know different but i would feel that it does yes i mean it is a very at times obviously wonderful and can be extremely glamorous life, but it's a very unusual, odd one.

7:14You're away from home a great deal of time. You know, I had to pretend to have sex with lots of people. So there are, yes, there are very sort of individual sort of challenges and peculiarities about the gig. And I think it definitely helps to be with someone who understands this, yes, what your mindset, I guess, and also understands that you'll have to go away and that kind of, you know, we're kind of used to it, I suppose. And does therapy make you a better actor? Oh, that's a really good question. Yeah, well, there are two aspects of acting. There's acting and then there's being an actor, which are, I think, often diametrically opposed.

7:56To be a good actor, I think you have to have a very, very thin skin and to withstand being an actor, you have to have a very, very thick skin. So definitely therapy has helped me be able to be an actor. and also I am very inquisitive into myself and the way that I think and the way that the relationships I'm in work and that can only help empathy and sort of understanding the human condition and the ways that brains work and emotions work. So yes, I think I might have stopped acting had it not have been for my therapist. So I'm very grateful to him if he's listening. Yeah. But yeah. That's such a sophisticated and interesting answer.

8:40And I relate to that idea of having a thin enough skin to let the world in and to feel empathetic, but a thick enough skin to withstand the exposure. And it's almost like we need something breathable but protective like Gore-Tex. Like that's the ideal kind of skin for anyone. I think I've said before that I think that acting sometimes can be a bit like being in an abusive relationship in that you can sometimes get this light shined upon you very, very brightly, and you feel like the most important and the best and the most sort of seen and loved and witnessed. Like every part of you can be witnessed, even the sort of grubby, shameful feeling bits, depending on the part you're playing.

9:19And then it's just taken away and no one wants you and they're not interested and it's like you're a piece of shit. So trying to weather that and sort of take, undo one's sense of self from that has been a real task. And I think I'm a great deal better at it now. And I think also somehow being better at it has allowed me to find greater levels of a career and stuff like that, weirdly. I'm going to talk more about your role as Rupert Campbell Black as it pertains to one of your failures. But I just wonder if you could tell me a bit about the filming of Rivals and how much fun it looks like it was.

10:00Was it that fun? I think it was more fun. Yeah, we genuinely all got on so incredibly well. The producers, and all producers say this, but it was really true. They phoned four or five people that every one of us had worked with before to make sure that we were nice people and good to work with. And it really worked. There was, I mean, they always say that if there's no assholes on set, you're the asshole, but I hope that's not true. We just had such a laugh. And as you can see the cast list and guests, everyone has got a filthy sense of humor, which really helps in a show like that. and is very game and really supportive and really kind and really funny.

10:36And we just had an absolute blast. And also we're in absolutely beautiful places, getting to pretend to be in the 80s in those sorts of costumes and riding horses. And it was a real wish fulfilment. I genuinely am so excited to go back and do the second season. What was it like the first time you met Dame Jilly Cooper? I was really nervous. I knew that she had approved my casting and everything, but actually, I'd forgotten this is the first time I met her. So we had this read-through. You do it like a table read, which is when you sit round and as many of you are there as possible, and you read the script.

11:14I think we read three scripts or something. And I had just come back from Mexico, where I caught a terrible stomach bug and had been in hospital off the plane. I got wheelchaired off the plane. So I was like this grey husk of a man turning up. And I already was quite nervous about being Rupert, so I was sort of for quite a while, slightly wanted to avoid her in case I could see in her eyes that she disapproved of my casting. But after a while, I really felt endorsed by her. But you didn't choose to audition for it, did you? You didn't think you'd get it? Yes. In this instance, I got sent, I think, just some scenes, one of them being the post-Concord shag scene.

11:55which if anyone hasn't seen Wymals opens the entire show spoiler alert there is shagging and I think maybe the tennis court scene actually

12:09I kept my clothes on and I just read it and thought I'm never going to get that part it said blonde hair and blue eyes and all of that sort of thing but also I just as I'm sure we will talk about I don't feel like that kind of person at all and I felt that I would not get the job there was no way that they would choose me to get the job I understood that it was a you know that lots of people would be trying to get this job and it was a cool thing and I just thought it wasn't worth it because I thought I won't get it and I also thought if I got it I would feel so ill at ease that I wouldn't be able to pull it off so I said no I didn't want to audition for it and my agents said, shut up.

12:51Shut up. We've talked to the casting director and she thinks you'd be really good and just do it. So I did it and didn't hear anything for four months. I didn't expect to hear anything. Didn't hear anything for four months or something while they saw every other actor in the world. And then got a call to go and do those scenes with the producers and then with Bella as a chemistry read. Who plays Taggy? She'd already been cast. And then it was quite quick from there. And then I had to sort of get my head around it, which has took most of season one. Your agent's here tonight. Yes, yes, yes. So I just want to say a massive thank you to Alex Hassel's agent.

13:26I would also like to say a massive thank you. Yes. Thank you on behalf of all 1 ,900 of us here tonight. Your first failure, which follows on so seamlessly from this discussion, is a failure of self-confidence. Yeah. So, when you did get to play Rupert, how much of a struggle was that? to inhabit someone who is so arrogant in many ways. I mean, I really wish this wasn't the case, and it feels very kind of masturbatory to talk about it, but I did, which is appropriate in some ways, but I did find it very intimidating. I did question my wife. Well, no, very clearly. I spent a long time really questioning myself whether I was...

14:12I get, you know, acting is vulnerable, for me anyway, it is a vulnerable thing, and I am really drawn for some perverse reason to parts that intimidate me and that I think I'm probably not capable of playing. And so there is a, you know, you do live in a, I do anyway, for certain roles and for certain amounts of time, live in a very vulnerable place and you fear that the people that have employed you are regretting employing you. Genuinely, I think the tennis court scene, taking all of my clothes off and literally having nothing to hide behind it's like either i am or i'm not like this is it this is what i am and who i am and you know it was sort of freeing actually to from then i felt more easy about it somehow you've spoken also very humorously about the fact that everyone else on set was told to treat you as a certain like physical specimen Which obviously you are, but did that help your confidence?

15:15Yeah. Going home was slightly difficult sometimes afterwards. Yes, it was extremely helpful. I really hoped that when we finished season one, a bit of Rupert would rub off on me and I'd be strutting around. But unfortunately, that hasn't quite happened. But maybe two seasons we'll do that. We just have to keep recommissioning it until you get your confidence. Until my ego is enormous. Tell me where you feel this lack of self-confidence started. When is the first time that you can remember feeling it? Well, I was picked on at school. That was, I think, a big part, a really big part of it, I think.

15:49You know, unfortunately, I think they got into my head about my sense of self and, like, my sexuality and things like that in a way that I just thought that I was just a piece of shit in that sort of way. And that... And also, I was really quite, in some ways, very confident when I was young and came out of drama school and I think as lots of people do, expected to sort of stroll into work and like high profile work and it just didn't happen. It's been a very, I talk about it as being a, and also I want to caveat this by saying, one's career and how you feel about it is very much an individual thing.

16:30I'm sure people would look at my career and think I should fuck off in saying this, if you know what I mean. But it feels like a slow drag up a steep hill, if you know, it hasn't sort of, this is like a really big thing for me to be here and you know people know who I am and that kind of thing I think I thought I was going to just sort of stroll into being successful and it just didn't happen and I got jobs and stuff and I every time I get a job that I would think would like cross over some line and get me somewhere else it just sort of didn't or it did in a much slower way than I um I think it did ultimately but in a much slower way than was palpable and one starts to question what's wrong with me like why can't I get jobs am I crap am I not do I not look right or is there something uncharismatic or you know like it it's difficult not to turn in on yourself in that aspect thank you for talking so openly about something that so many of us will relate to that so many of us probably struggle to articulate and to hear someone like you say it who we have all seen on screen embodied this confident nature we wouldn't necessarily expect that but i think what it gave you was this soulful quality to rupert yeah i wonder that that is true i i actually think potentially i don't know that when i got the job i you know they were like we gave you the job because you were so confident i was like i was auditioning for you of course i was pretending to be confident but i do think that they actually probably made a really good maybe unconscious choice of casting someone who is very very far from ruper campbell black because you get the potentially the finer more um hard to express aspects i suppose because that's where i sort of am and live it more and i had to work to do the other side of it whereas if you cast someone maybe who was more like that it might have been harder potentially for them to have found the other stuff I guess, I don't know.

18:22The school experience, what do you think it was that was being picked on? As someone who also was picked on at school when I was at school in Belfast, obviously I don't have the accent, so I didn't fit in. But what do you think it was about you that made you this target? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, now I think maybe it actually was because I did have lots of good qualities and I didn't fucking care about what they wanted me to be. Like, I didn't... I hated being at school in Essex and I didn't... Sorry for those who shouted out about South Ed there. It wasn't South Ed. You don't hate Essex.

19:03No, exactly. I felt very much a fish out of water. I felt, I guess, very artistic and sort of vulnerable and fine-spirited, I suppose, and that, you know, school in Essex can be blunted out of you a bit. Or in the 90s, anyway. But that's definitely not how I felt all the time. I thought there was something deficient in me that they were picking up on. Like so many people, my whole year almost, it was sort of... Well, that's what happens with kids, isn't it? They can jump on a bandwagon about that because it's easier. And I understand that. I'm forgiving of that. But it wasn't a great experience.

19:37I'm so sorry you went through that. I wonder if any of those school bullies have been in touch since you played Rupert Campbell Black. I've got some... I mean, one amazing thing that happened is when... I think also partly because people that know me know that I'm not like that and know that I've been working really hard to try and, you know, get somewhere. And I got so many incredibly lovely messages that make me want to tear up. You know, it was so gratifying, and it means so much. But it's so fascinating. It's, you know, really a big impact in that, apart from Rupert Campbell Black, most of the characters I play are evil, horrible, violent murderers.

20:15and I think there is a desire to say I would fucking kill you if you came near me again unconsciously obviously I wouldn't I would be able to punch them very close to the face but not in the face in and of itself a skill not everyone but I agree with you that I think fuel is fuel and sometimes what drives us is wanting to prove people wrong yeah I do think that's a massive part of it definitely yeah yeah definitely I think that drives me hugely I think wanting to prove them wrong and prove myself wrong I think and in therapy the other day my therapist said something I was talking about feeling I was talking about what I would talk about here and I talk about failures and stuff and I was talking about confidence and and he was saying that obviously I do actually have a really massive sense of confidence otherwise I wouldn't be sitting here talking about my failures in front before I wouldn't be putting my taking all of my clothes off in front of everyone I wouldn't be being an actor I wouldn't you know I obviously believe that I could do it and can do it so there is that and I want to get more in contact with that part of me because and it's not like I'm a massive nervous wreck all the time that it's definitely not you know I'm capable of working I'm capable of like please employ me if you are a director and here I'm not that much of a mess well there was this very interesting quote that I read that you gave about loving difficulty you said I regret almost immediately that I'll take a job and I'm really drawn to something that I don't know how to do and I'm not sure I'm good enough to do then I get massively insecure about it along the way but is there a sort of creative aspect to that difficulty that you thrive on I think I want to know how good an actor I am and like feed find the edges of that out I think I want to go I don't think I I just I think maybe I could do that and I want to find out if I'm capable of doing it.

22:04I want to be in the mindset of someone else that doesn't exist, but like a different mindset of my own. I find that really interesting to explore. The idea that I could get through the other side, it means a lot to me, I suppose. And there's an exploration to the unknown, but the unknown in and of itself is quite fear inducing a lot of the time, I imagine. But tell me about the factory group, because I'm fascinated by this, because that speaks to what we're talking about. Yeah, so that is entirely about being put in the most terrifying acting situation. So in a very, very quick summary of the work we do, I'll explain the first show that we did, which was Hamlet.

22:44And because we didn't have any money and we didn't want to try and make and raise any money, we didn't want to spend time doing that. So that meant that we had to have a cast that shifted. So we all learnt a bunch of parts. So I knew 13 parts in Hamlet by the end of it. We all worked really, really, really hard on the verse pattern. So there was a sort of structure that would hold this chaos. If we were playing here, we would do maybe act one on the stage, act two, we would put all of you on the stage and we would be in the balcony. Act three would be in the bar, act four would be in the road, and act five would be on the roof.

23:14And we wouldn't have planned that. Someone would have planned it, but none of us actors would have known. We didn't have any costume or set or props, and the audience would bring random objects with them, which we would then incorporate into the show. so and also sometimes we would say right we'll start on the stage here and then the actors will just decide so you'd be playing hamlet and like cajoling a thousand people into a different part of a building and stuff it was so terrifying it was so terrifying but such an incredible crucible of learning like if you aren't sucking in that environment that means you are capable of something and being able to to hold people's attention and um i had some of the most revelatory sort of moments of connection to a text that i've ever had in those instances because it was all accidental like we didn't have any blocking either so we like we didn't know where we were going to go obviously so it was incredibly we also was anti-interpretation we weren't allowed to decide what our characters were like or what they felt about stuff or what they thought you just this this night this is what it's like and it was wild yeah so we played in clubs to you know we played a festival at four in the morning when everyone including us were high as kites and like we played in like the globe and we played in art galleries and it was kind of this underground thing for a while and didn't you use your baby nephew as a prop yeah that's right yeah that's right yeah so people would bring like their dogs and like like my dad was the ghost once and stuff like that for example and um so henry my brother bought henry who was four weeks old and we weren't allowed to plan like if you saw something in the audience that you thought you wanted to use you weren't allowed to decide like early on oh i'm going to do that because that would sort of kill the serendipitous feeling of it anyway so i happened to pick him up for what a piece of work is man um how noble in reason how infinite in faculty in form and moving how express and admirable in action how like an angel in apprehension how like a god the beauty of the world the paragon of animals and yet to me what is this quintessence of dust man delights not me no no woman neither and i burst into tears while saying man delights not me because i was holding this incredibly innocent well i didn't really know why but thinking about it afterwards because i was holding this beautiful innocent child full of promise and full of and i just desperately didn't want him ever to feel like that um i suppose and what was so wonderful about that is i couldn't have faked that you know i couldn't that would have been bullshit and it really communicated to me and to everyone in the room because it was totally accidental um yeah it was it was it was very scary i definitely think the experience of doing the factory really really really helped me in in you know later jobs in terms of a feeling of a sense of self and a sense of i you know i do have something to offer jason disney asked me to do this podcast thing i need some advice You've got to have banger guests.

26:15Walker and Leah. Daniel Diemer. Tim Simons. Adam Kovlin. You're the one asking the questions. How, why? And they better answer. I don't know anything. Epic. This either is just make up. Quest! I'm Ariane Simhadri. Welcome to the Percy Jackson and the Olympians official podcast. Available wherever you get your podcasts. And watch season two of Percy Jackson streaming now on Disney Plus and Hulu. Learn more at DisneyPlus.com slash what's on. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class.

26:51I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. Kraft mac and cheese is the best thing ever It's even better than pop music You look just as natural Enjoying us at age 13 as you do 55 Kraft mac and cheese Best thing ever We're going on to your second failure Which is equally profound And philosophical in so many ways Because your second failure Is your failure to eat onions Yeah to be fair it's onion garlic leek shallots spring onions and chives allium allium the allium family and if you are all thinking now god i love onion and garlic fuck you that's what i'm thinking and you're also thinking but that's the first two ingredients in every single meal that you make and fuck you again that's true that yeah it's really a total bastard yeah when did you discover this failure i think i had it as a kid i had operations on my stomach when i was a kid and stuff I had a what my family would call a dog belly which was like a massive distended belly 100 % of the time till I was in my 30s you can see it in early jobs I did and stuff in the you know the bottom of a shot I didn't know what it was like food allergies weren't a thing when we were young so later on I was sort of shamed by a producer because I had this massive belly and decided to just stop eating everything and slowly reintroduce stuff and and and thankfully worked out what it was and now if I do avoid them I'm completely and utterly fine but it's extremely difficult to avoid them and I'll roll around in pain for a week I'll projectile vomit and it's awful like the number of times and events that I ruined by puking on things and on people like when I was young yeah the one potentially the worst but it was a church fate when I was young and I like felt really really ill but we saw there was nothing to do about it and I was just like I'm gonna puke so I thought I know what I'll do I'll go over to this side thing here and puke over that because that will be safe it was three flights up on a like stairway and it went into slow motion as i puked and it hit this old lady like oh no on her whole back and i had to go around and apologize to her and everything oh alex that's that's low-key trauma yeah yeah yeah it is a bastard i missed two shows of henry sam who's here he went on as my understudy um thank you sam it's glib to talk about but it is it is actually i've all sort of it's a bodily failure of course but i've been it's the most frequent thing that i'm in contact with all the time it's like every single meal and yeah i mean it sounds like it's very difficult to avoid yeah i just yeah i yeah i yeah i get ill not that much but yeah too much really yeah so when you go to restaurants sorry to get into the nitty-gritty please but are there many restaurants that cater for that well we often try and phone in advance and stuff.

30:00But the number of times my wife and I have been like in a different city. We'll be like, oh, we'll go to a restaurant. Wouldn't that be great? And then it's a bit too late. We probably should have gone half an hour ago. And then we'll go find a restaurant and be like, this looks great. And we'll sit down and it'll be like, this is lovely. And then they'll say, you cannot eat anything in this restaurant. Like in Paris, I said, I can't eat gluten either or onion and garlic. And he's like, why are you here? Like, why are you in Paris? Yeah, exactly. And there's some people who are like, that Alex Hassel, what a Mariah Carey.

30:30I do often say, I can't include, it's not an affectation. Right, that's what you say. It's not an affectation. But it's so annoying because I have to, you know, I phone up in advance and then I say it when we order and then they bring it and I say it and they're like, yes, definitely, 100%, 100%. And then the other day we're in a restaurant and we're like, great, excellent, this is lovely. I ate it, put it down and they came over and went, oh, I'm so sorry. And I was like, oh no. So I had to go home and drink salt water and put my fingers down my throat. It's just absolute agony, yeah. Woe is me.

31:00I'm so sorry. What's on-set catering like for you then? Well, I have to just, yeah. I mean, they take it really seriously, but I have to just hound them all the time. Yeah, I did get ill on a film set once. And the only thing that has worked, actually, so if anyone could like back black market, get me some of this, I would really appreciate it. But gas and air worked. Okay. So I did the rest of the day totally off my tits, but I wasn't puking. And actually, it was one of the best scenes of the film. What was the catering like on Rivals? It was all right. Okay. Yeah, it was good. It was great. I think it'll be better in the second season.

31:43Okay, got it. Just thinking about that, because we're of a similar generation, and when we were growing up, allergies were very much seen as not really real. And it sort of makes me think about rivals as well because it is a period piece, Rivals. But I imagine it was quite difficult sometimes to tread that line. There is a sexual assault halfway through the season. Well, there's a sexual assault in the second episode by me to the person who ends up being my love interest who is like 18 years younger than me. Was that awkward? Were you ever worried about treading that line? I was really worried about that, yeah.

32:20And there were discussions about taking it out or not taking it out. And I think it's so important that they didn't. I think that is what happened to lots of people and still does happen to people. I think it was a really bold thing of them to do. And I think partly, potentially, what's connected with people is that it is a period piece. So all of those things do happen in the show. There's lots of smoking, there's lots of sex, there's casual misogyny and racism, that it is not sanitised. it is not condoning any of those things I think it's really clear to me that the show is not condoning those actions but it is exploring how far we've come or not come by showing them I think.

32:59Okay, your final failure, this is such a good one I can't wait to get into it, is your failure to get in trouble. Yeah So are you a very well behaved man? I'm so painfully worried about other people and they're like recently since Rivals has come out you know, have been invited to sort of sexy events. And I'm always the first person there. Like, I force my wife. She's like, we could leave a bit later. And I'm the first person there. And no one expects you to be there for like an hour and a half because you're supposed to be cool. And I'm not cool. So, yes, I am, you know, I'm very obedient. I want to be on time and I want to be thought of as professional.