Anastacia – All My Songs Have Been Good Therapy

0:00All my songs have been a very good step into therapy. Not trying to please the man who needs me to look like a pinup doll. If a guy approached me, I'd be like, what do you have to say? So the word cancer, I didn't like it, but I looked at the first three letters and I was like, oh my God. This episode of How to Fail is brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant. Welcome to How to Fail. This is the podcast that believes failing better is living better. Before we get cracking on this episode, please do remember to like, follow, and subscribe so that you never miss a single conversation.

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3:00My guest today is a singer-songwriter who has released eight albums and sold over 50 million records worldwide. She has collected a total of 227 gold and platinum certifications and counts Elson John as one of her biggest fans. Named Anastasia by a mother who loved Russian literature, she was born in Chicago. By 15, she was working as a dancer, later singing backing vocals for Jamie Foxx, Tiffany and Paula Abdul. Her breakthrough came in 1998 when she reached the finals of MTV's talent contest, The Cut. At 30, she'd had to lie about her age to get in. She claimed to be 24 and her undeniable vocal talent landed her a record deal.

3:49In 2000, she released I'm Out of Love, her debut single, which quickly topped charts worldwide and paved the way for her first album, Not That Kind. This year sees her embark on a major arena tour to celebrate that album's 25th anniversary. Alongside her music career, Anastasia's own experience with breast cancer, she underwent a double mastectomy in 2013 after being diagnosed for the second time, led her to establish the Anastasia Fund to promote awareness of breast cancer among younger women. That same year, she became only the second woman to be presented with the Humanitarian Award at the GQ Men of the Year Awards.

4:32I was in my 30s when I had my first hit, she says. Being that little bit older makes a difference. I'd done real jobs, waitressing, shop assistant, receptionist. That reminds me not to take things for granted. Anastasia, welcome to How to Fail. What an intro. Well, Anastasia and Brody, I should say. Yes, Brody is here with me today. He has decided to be the Brody on the roadie. So he, and apparently he is smelling something amazing in the studio. So he's very nose up right now. He's usually not that snooty. Hopefully he'll just sit down and become a little comfy once we get to talking. For anyone listening to this podcast rather than watching it, Brody is the most beautiful chocolate Yorkie who has the wisdom of the ages in his face.

5:26He does. He's a little old soul in there. I love him. And I love you. Thank you so much. Thank you. We're a good duo together, aren't we? You are. Okay, down. There we go. So talk to me about all of those other jobs that you've ever had. Which one was the worst? You know, I don't think I've had a worst. I think they were just jobs so that I could pay bills. So I never really looked at it. It really needed to happen. So, I mean, I sold sunglasses. I was a hostess. I, very small time, I was a waitress. I think that probably was where I was least effective because I really did enjoy talking to people.

6:06So I'd be like, okay, what was your order? You know, I don't think I really remembered orders when I was a waitress that well. Loved working in a hair salon as a receptionist. I thought that was very fun. And then did some gymnastics, well, not gymnastics, but it was called Jamnastics. It was kind of like a step class and aerobic class for a while at Jackal Lane. but they were really to make a difference in paying the bills. Sin. Not that kind. I can't believe it's been 25 years. Can you? Once I was, let's just see, in the 24th year and thinking, let's plan a 25th year anniversary, I then was actually sinking in the number and going, that's kind of epic.

6:58That's kind of a big number. and I was still able to perform and I still had people wanting to see me. And it's, you know, and then all of a sudden, like this whole Y2K comes around and now my fashion is, you know, spot on right now. Yes. I had a lot of fun looking at Anastasia Images as a research for this podcast. Your midriff is like the eighth wonder of the world. It was. It was the eighth wonder of the world and I never worked out. I never did sit-ups. It was just part of just me. And I was very okay to show it because I was trying to distract from the top, which I was very top heavy in my chest area.

7:47So I felt like if I showed my midriff, like the attention could go there. That idea of wanting to be seen as a musical artist rather than as an easily pigeonholed female. Can you talk to me a little bit about that? Because you have such a specific style. And I know that you were rejected a lot in the early years in the music industry. What do you think was going on there? Well, I didn't fit into any of what was happening in music then. If I was looking at the artist that I was looking at to see if I could find a me in there or am I on the right path? Celine, Mariah, Janet Jackson, Madonna. I was definitely not in the sexy category of being that.

8:40And they didn't sound like me. I, the more I continued to try to have a career in my 20s, it just seemed futile because I didn't fit the mold and I also didn't sound the mold. And I would try to work with producers and sing a little different. but I do say that when I was doing like in the last three years before I got the deal I was doing a lot more weddings and I mean that was another way to make money was work with different bands and be a you know a band singer so that you could still do what you love doing but I think that's where I learned my voice. So when I wrote Not That Kind, to me, that was normal.

9:34But when I played it for people, they were like, well, what genre is this? What are you? Like, where would you fit? And I'm like, oh my God, I don't even know it. Like I didn't know I had to figure that out to be a singer. It just seemed I had to be like this business. And I didn't have that sense. I just had an artist sense. It's so brilliant that Not That Kind is an anthem for not fitting in. Right. And that's the thing that... Well, that was an easy song to write for me because I was just not the typical girl. Same with the title of my second album, which was Freak of Nature. You know, it's just I'm a little bit different, you know, but freak isn't a bad thing.

10:16You know, you could freak in your own little way. And that's why I ended up calling my fans my freaks. You know, They beat to their own drum. They're just their own unique selves. And I encouraged that. So I really did try to be my authentic self. When I did get my deal, that was lovely that they felt that way. But prior to being on that show, my authentic self was not signable at all. Is it true that you sang at Steven Spielberg's wedding? Yes. What was that wedding like? Well, I mean, it's like every wedding you're at. It's unbelievable and fabulous and everybody's there. And the only reason that that has come up in my conversation is because I was shooting one day in your life video and we all went to dinner.

11:07We were at an Italian restaurant and there is Steven Spielberg, his wife, Tom Cruise and Penelope Cruz. Wow. Let's just say the table of four that you're like, oh. And I said to people at the table, oh my god I sang at their wedding and they're like no go up to him and I was like I'm not gonna go up to him and so then I just okay whatever so I went up to him and I'm like I'm so sorry of course they thought you know I want an autograph and I was like uh I don't mean to be rude but I thought it was ironic that I'm here uh my name is Anastasia uh I actually sang at your wedding and I now am a singer and I just shot my video and I just think it's, you know, ironic.

11:55We're in the same restaurant together. And Stephen goes, what is your name? Anastasia. And he said, you know, I think the most ironic part is that we're still married. And I was like, and granted, I'm totally like so nervous at the same time. I was like, oh, okay. Nice meeting you. Bye. Well done you for going up. Also Arnold Schwarzenegger's birthday party. Yeah. Okay. Where he requested the same song 12 times. The number is more than more than four, but maybe no more than seven. Let's just say, but it it's his theme, like his, his really cool song that he thought was fun and he liked to play it, but it was what a man.

12:42It was an En Vogue song and I was singing it and just over and over. But he was just so sweet, like with it. He wasn't like, it's all about me. He was like a little kid in a candy store when it would come. And I just thought it was very sweet, but I was like, okay, dude, like, is there another song? And I'm looking at all the rest of the people that are there to sing their songs and I'm like, do I get extra? No, just kidding. But it was quite wild to perform in front of all these amazing stars and just wonder, not kind of, but like, will I ever be there? But probably not. You know, I didn't really dream dream about things, but I always did wonder what it would be like to be on the other side.

13:32Does it feel like you thought it might being on the other side and being the star that you are now? I just never thought it was possible. But looking at it, it just looked inconceivable. Even though I could see what was happening. I just I don't think I ever saw someone that seemed like they could be a me that it could be possible. Let's get on to your failures and the being you of it. Your first failure is technology, and that came accompanied by a triple exclamation mark. it's so true it is an absolute tragedy I if I did not have people that could facilitate my online life I probably wouldn't be able to do what I do it just breaks it just doesn't work like they're why is your phone not and I'm like see like you can't download this why isn't she able to do that?

14:33What's wrong with her phone? Everybody. And I'm like, it's not just me. It's like the phone already knows it doesn't want to do it. It already knows that I'm not into it. So they're like, I'm not working. I wonder how much of it, because you, like me, grew up analog and then transitioned into digital. Yeah. Let's talk about childhood and what that was like for you, where you got your creativity from. You grew up in Chicago. Yes. I grew up in Chicago and definitely a kid's kid. We're outside a lot, riding bikes, roller skating, but Chicago also has snow. So we were outside in the snow and ice skating.

15:19And it was all about going outside and playing or locked to the television. So that was like the way that life worked in our bubble of us three, which was my sister, me and my brother. And can you remember the first piece of music that you heard that really spoke to you or the first person you were obsessed with? Well, when I was young, my mom had a lot of Barbra Streisand albums and Elton John, And Billy Joel, too, and a lot of other Chicago and tons of Eagles. But for some reason, Barbara and Elton albums, the covers, and maybe Barbara because she could sing so pretty. And maybe I thought that was kind of like my mom, you know, as a pretty voice.

16:10And Elton was, I think I gravitated to him because at six years old, I got glasses. and I kind of remember that being a defining moment of when my mom said I needed glasses she said I did like yes and I did the whole like my life is good she was quite surprised at that but I think because I was visually stimulated by his records having different glasses and And I think that I was cool like him. Talking about this transition from analog to digital, you were in New York in the 90s. What an era. What are your memories of New York in the 90s? I grew up in New York in some of the 80s because I was quite still young and still in high school when we moved from Chicago to New York.

17:08and the move was hoping my mom could get on some more Broadway. She was an actress. Yeah, she was a musical actress, my mom. And I think that was the purpose. Once we did move there, it was very, very apparent that my brother, who is cognitive brain dysfunction, it was not a city for him. We were in Manhattan. It definitely was not a thriving place for Brian. So they only stayed for about three years and then moved to California. I immediately was like, I love New York. And I stayed after high school and just decided to stay in New York. So for me, my growth as like young, late teens and 20s manifested its life in New York.

18:04And I realized I became me. And also the people I ended up hanging with, like had their own identities and they were quite sure of who they were, but also really OK that I was kind of wide eyed and innocent. but they kind of just took me in and a lot of the families were different people were Ecuadorian family and a Puerto Rican family and a Dominican they were all like Latin and um and like Haitian so they all were family oriented but not white and so for me I think I learned different cultures being around New York and learning that different cultures were fun and exciting. And I adopted different energies from the cultures and I just loved it.

19:02Prior being in Chicago, my mom being a thespian, everything was at my house. There were gays and drags and, you know, black, white, brown, everything. So it was all accepted from my childhood. But I'd never adulthood it. You know, I never went out there myself and met friends. You know, I was kind of like a little bit of a shy kid. My mom was like, don't lie. Don't wear makeup. You know, I was very, very more on the sheltered side. And she instilled fear in a good way, my mom. So it was kind of like when I went to places and my dancing didn't start till about 18, by the way. And I went to clubs because my mom knew the guy that owned the club.

19:55And so I go to the club and I get, I get to dance all night and then take a cab there, take a cab back. But my mom said, here's money for a soda or an orange juice. But her whole story was like, you take that, the minute he pours it, you keep your eyes on it, you put it in your hand, and you go into the bathroom, and you go into a stall, and you drink that. And unless you drink the whole thing, you put it down, you can't drink it anymore. Someone will spike it and kill you. Like, it literally had me terrified. But at the same time, rightly so, I was single-focused on dancing, single-focused on, I'll just have a little soda and everything's good.

20:40And my life was easy. You know, come and kiss me when you get home. All her reason for it was she wanted to smell that I didn't drink alcohol. I was like, are you kidding? I wouldn't lie to her. It's like my biggest fear. Smart, smart woman. She was a very, very, she had her techniques going on. Yes. Fear never hit us. The fear of hitting was probably the bigger fear because nothing was ever done to us she was like if like teeth clench don't you you know so we were like okay you know you're just sort of like these kids that did what she said for us to do all the more impressive because she was a single parent and you've written so movingly about your dad and one of your biggest hits yeah how are you feeling about that relationship now?

21:32Well, I don't have a relationship with my dad. And so that was pretty much what the song was about. And I sort of left it as I'm able to say, don't have a relationship with you. And I leave it at the door. I don't talk about it, but it was enough for me to be able to get out a song that allowed me to write Left Outside Alone with a theme going, yeah, this is, believe it or not, this is becoming about my dad. Didn't mean to write that, but okay, that's good. That's out. You know, all my songs have been a very good step into therapy and not all of them have been told what they're about, but I did feel quite surprised that I had written one sort of, and it, it helps, I think everything like that, therapy or whatever can help your closure in your own spirit about how something made you feel, um, whatever that may be.

22:33And, um, I really enjoyed that song because it had such power in the words, you know, the words actually, and the song itself is powerful. It's a, it's a very big song and became one, if not my biggest song in my career and how ironic it was about something so sensitive or something so close to, you know, nobody, I don't talk about my, my father. I don't talk about my past because it is what it is. You know, it's just my, my part of my life that, that I, I have. However, writing about it made me feel really good to share it, but not have to go deep. Yes. Well, I know so many people who've been helped by that song.

23:24So thank you. And sometimes it could be about a boyfriend. That is how I first heard it. I'm just thinking. I know most people did think it was about that, but I was like, well, I don't want to lie, but it just happened to be in there like, oh, wow. So it definitely keeps something honest and something to be mine. Totally understood. Technology. How do you feel? Okay, aside from your own personal failure with it, how do you feel about its impact on music? I'm sad and happy. I'm sad that musical artists, writers, and people that work so hard on their music are not making the money that they should make because now all these new platforms are streaming their music and they are making more money than the artist is making because they own the platform and you're just lucky enough to be on it.

24:26It's definitely not what you would be making if you sold physical copies. So that's the unfortunate part. The thing that I think is also positive is that people that do have talent have a way to facilitate and get their music out to so many places, not just where they live and go on the corner of the street and try to sell, you know, a CD or, you know, try to just have one little place that people go to. Then there is the amount of music out there is super saturated. So the great music can get lost because everybody wants to be a musician, like everybody. And really, you can, you know, and you really can be a musician and you can actually make yourself sound better than you are.

25:22And now that once again, technology is technology, AI are writing songs and AI are singing similarly to an artist. When I was young, it was about standing outside and waiting for the release date. And that release date meant you waited outside the store and hoped they didn't sell out before your three hours or 10 hours or 24 hours of waiting in line for your product, your favorite artist. And now it is, you know, like one song off the album you'll take. You know, it just doesn't get the whole vibe of what it was to create a whole album. It was like a story arc of the way you used to write before.

26:12And now it's super singles and EPs. And it's just changed a lot. And if you don't know it and never experienced it, I think it's OK for the younger audience. So they don't really get the uniqueness of what it was like. But I'm glad I experienced that. Because if I didn't, obviously I would have as much sympathy as I do for even musicians today. I have tremendous amount of sympathy. I don't know what to tell musicians today, to be fair. Good luck. Yeah. Like, just get another vocation in case, you know, this becomes hard. Because it doesn't mean you're not talented these days. That was an amazing answer.

26:58Thank you so much. probably 12 of your questions just and I feel exactly the same and I feel so grateful to have had that experience right of saving up my money for a Madonna album that came in like a little cassette and literally opening up the cassette yeah and looking at all the words and looking at the pictures and look who did sing backgrounds like you end up kind of going oh my god you know what this person is saying backgrounds on this person's like you start to love your artists enough to see that you go, oh my God, Michael Jackson had the same singers as Luce the Vandross. You're like, you just really got to be musey.

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28:20That shift from setting up to building is such a turning point. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it one. Start your free trial at shopify.co.uk slash fail. Start your free trial at shopify.co.uk slash fail. There are those weeks when everything lands at once and it feels overwhelming. The leak in the shower you didn't see coming, the table you've been meaning to put together, the garden that suddenly turned into a mini jungle. But don't panic because you're not on your own thanks to TaskRabbit, the app that makes everyday life easier by helping people get more done around the home.

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29:47TaskRabbit.co.uk and the code FAIL. Terms and conditions apply. A lot of people listening to this show have sat with something they've never told anyone. Not a mistake, not a bad decision, a thought that arrived uninvited and just kept coming back that made them feel like there was something deeply wrong with them. And because it didn't look like a failure they could talk about, they just carried it in silence. For millions of people, that's not a character flaw. It's OCD. Not the organising stereotype. real OCD is persistent, unwanted, intrusive thoughts that latch onto the things you care about most your relationships, your values, your sense of who you are and bring enormous guilt and shame with them and the more you fight the thoughts, the louder they get The good news is that OCD is highly treatable with the right kind of specialised therapy OCD needs ERP or exposure and response prevention therapy which has proven to be the most effective treatment Regular talk therapy isn't recommended for OCD and can actually make it worse.

30:52And that's where NoCD comes in. NoCD is the world's leading provider of OCD treatment, and it's covered by insurance for over 138 million Americans. All their licensed therapists specialize in ERP therapy and will help you learn to take the power away from intrusive thoughts in live, face-to-face virtual sessions. They also provide support between sessions when you need it most, so you're never facing OCD alone. If any of this sounds familiar, visit nocd.com to book a free 15-minute call with their team. That's nocd.com. Your second failure, and you mentioned how important it was for you to get glasses at that young age because it made you feel closer to Elton John.

31:37Your second failure made me laugh. Not securing the world's biggest glasses deal, dot, dot, dot, yet. Yet. Still out here, folks. still out here, still wearing glasses, still have a great, great eye for glasses. Half the time, everyone's like, oh, my God, I love your glasses. I wear so many different shapes that it's not about one shape suits one face. I think people now are really into wearing glasses with the tint. So I think if now it's not even like the second thought is there, Like I would love to have like a spec savers type of situation because it's not about paying a lot for glasses. The fun part is if you need them to see, you could put a little tint in your glasses and they could always be there.