Bonnie Tyler - Her first ever podcast interview

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0:35Hello and welcome to How To Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. In my podcast, we look at and celebrate our unique individual failures because ultimately they're the stepping stones to success. Every week, I invite a guest to look at their failures and what has come afterwards that might have helped them grow and succeed. Before we begin, I just wanted to remind you about my subscriber series, Failing With Friends. Today, Bonnie and I look at your questions and give our advice and cover not getting Taylor Swift and whether you should talk to your friends about it, a cooking failure regarding soufflés, and is it too late to succeed in your 60s?

1:16Absolutely not. We'd love to hear from you. Please follow the link in the podcast notes to share your failures and questions. Last month, a total solar eclipse was sighted across America. As people rushed to put on their special spectacles to stare at the sun, an unexpected consequence was that a 1983 power ballad once again became number one across the United States. The song was Total Eclipse of the Heart, and its singer, Bonnie Tyler, is my guest today. She was born Gaynor Hopkins in Wales near Swansea. Her father was a coal miner who had fought in Dunkirk during World War II. She grew up in a council house and started singing in local clubs where she was spotted by a talent scout.

2:04Eventually, she was offered a recording contract by RCA Records. The legendary Ronnie Scott was one of her managers. Her hit singles included It's a Heartache and Holding out for a hero, but it is Total Eclipse of the Heart from her fifth album, for which she remains the most well-known. It has sold almost six million copies to date and remains a firm karaoke favourite. Tyler has earned three Grammy and three Brit nominations during her illustrious career. She was one of the first Western singers to tour the then Soviet Union and, in 2013, represented the UK in the Eurovision Song Contest. Nine years later, she was awarded an MBE for services to music and charities.

2:49These days, she's still touring and last year released her memoir, Straight From The Heart. Tyler turned 73 in June, although you wouldn't know it. But she says she has absolutely no intention of slowing down. I class myself as a working class girl and I've never stopped working. I do an awful lot because I feel other people would love to be offered what I'm offered. Who am I to say no? Bonnie Tyler, welcome to How to Fail. I know what a strange title that is for someone that's done so much. Exactly. Well, we're going to flip the notion of failure on its head because ultimately it's all a learning exercise.

3:32And you sit before me as this legendary success story. And I am so honoured that you're here today because I understand it's your first ever podcast interview. Well, I've done thousands of interviews, but I've never actually heard them called podcasts before. Well, I hope I will endeavour to make it a good experience. Right. Oh, great. Thank you, Elizabeth. I wanted to start off talking about the importance of working to you. What does it mean to you to work? Well, everything. When I left school on the Friday, I was determined to get a job by the Monday and start earning money so I could go out and buy things for myself.

4:11Although it was only a shop assistant, I got two jobs by the end of the day on the Friday after I left school. I had no qualifications. I was terrible in school. I got one O level and that's for cooking. God knows why. I think she felt sorry for me. So I was working right from when I was 17. But then when I was 17 and a half, I really, I'd always been singing in my bedroom with a hairbrush, you know. And it was kind of like fate was tempting me to answer this advertisement that was in the local newspaper, you know. And I did. And actually, that came after I entered a talent competition in the local rugby club.

4:58My auntie put my name down for it. But anyway, this advertisement said, looking for three girl singers to join Bobby Wayne and the Dixies. No experience needed. I thought, that's great. That's me. I'd never actually sang on a microphone before. I'd always used a hairbrush in my room. So I went along to the audition. There was about 34 girls there. And I thought, I've got no chance here. But I did. I became one of the Dixies. And I was with them for about 18 months. And then I formed my own band and we were working six nights a week, every week, you know. And we loved it. And this is why I call myself a working class girl because I've always, always worked.

5:48And I've always thought, like you said in the beginning, people would love to have the opportunities I've had. And to say no seems morally wrong, you know. So, of course, I don't do everything that comes my way. But, you know, if it's right, I'll do it. You've turned down quite a few celebrity reality TV shows, I understand. I turn them all down, I think. Do you regret saying no to any of them? No, not at all. Go in the jungle. My God, I couldn't think of anything worse. You know, I tell you, they've offered me really good money to do that. About five times, no chance. There's no point never asking me again, you know, because I'm never going to do it.

6:33And of course, Big Brother years ago asked me, no chance. I'm busy with my band anyway. My band have been with me for 35 years, some of them, you know. I have an awesome band. And just the other night now, I was doing sold out shows in Europe, you know, and I've come home for this podcast. Well, again, very flattered. Let's talk about Total Eclipse, if you'll allow me to. Tell me where you shot the video, because it's also an iconic video as well as being an iconic song. Oh, absolutely. And I was very lucky at the time that MTV had just started. So you can imagine how wonderful opportunity that was.

7:20And I was on heavy rotation. Sounds rude. Oh, hello. I was on heavy rotation on MTV, you know, and the video was extremely hard to do. It took two days and we were in an old asylum somewhere outside of London. It was freezing cold on that day. In fact, there was snow on the floor as well. And I had to run through it barefoot. But Jim Steinman wrote the most incredible storyboard. Couldn't understand it, but I did it. But it was an incredible video and it got nominated for a Grammy. And I lost out to Michael Jackson for the best song. That's right. He won it. And I also got nominated with the video with him.

8:13Thriller won it. And I had what company to be in here. I know. I guess we can live with that. I guess we can live with that. And I mentioned that it was a hit karaoke song and still is incredibly popular. Have you ever either performed at a karaoke or walked into a karaoke booth where someone is singing it and murdering it? I've seen many of them on YouTube that are sent to me, you know, my friend and I were out last night and have a look at this video, you know, and it's like, oh, my God, they love it. You know, they just all get together. But, yes, I did actually do it once years and years and years ago.

8:50We were at this party down in Swansea, some local pub somewhere, you know, and they had a karaoke night on. And somebody put my name down, didn't they? Well, of course I had to do it, otherwise I'd come over, I'd get right spoil sport, you know. So I actually did two total eclipse of the heart and holding out for a year or, you know. Oh, I wish I'd been there, Bonnie. What a night that must have been for those locals. Oh, it was fun. Tell me a bit about your voice because you have this extraordinarily powerful voice and it's got a slight raspy quality to it. And I understand that that's not something you were born with.

9:29That's something that happened. How did it happen? Well, you know, I was singing for seven years before I got discovered. I was singing locally for six nights a week and that took a lot of wear and tear on my voice. And I developed nodules three times in my career. and they went away with rest twice before. But this time they just wouldn't go. They were persistent, you know. So I had to have surgery to have them removed. And after the operation I was told to be quiet for a month. Bonnie is actively rolling her eyes. Can you imagine me being quiet, you know? So anyway, I tried my best. I had a notepad and paper and a thing around me saying, I can't speak to you because I've just had a throat operation, you know.

10:27But in the end, I just found it too hard not to talk. So I stayed in. Well, of course, when I stayed in and I had to stay in for like six weeks and I ate a lot, you know, I'd never had time off work. The only time I've been off work in my life was after this operation. I had to be quiet, but I wasn't quiet enough. And it ended up with my going back to the consultant. And he said to me, what have we done? You've been singing, haven't you? I said, no, yeah. He said, you've been talking. I said, I couldn't help it. I couldn't help it. He said, well, you've done it now. You're going to be like this now, probably forever.

11:13It wasn't so bad. I went into the studio and I went, it's a heartache. And they said, oh, my God, your voice has changed, you know. But we like it. And so it turned out to be a positive thing for me. That's so great. And that's really at the heart of everything this podcast is about, something that might be perceived of as a failure. One minute actually turns into this unique selling point. Yeah. I had my first number three in America. You know, everybody's dream is to make hits in America, you know, and I've done it a few times. But that was the first time with It's a Heartache. Strangely enough, before I had a chance to get my version out, Juice Newton and Ronnie Spector had already copied and released it.

11:59But they never got played because they liked my raspiness, you know, and they played my version. and it went racing up the charts, you know, to number three. Three or four in America. I mentioned in the introduction that you were born Gaynor and on stage you are Bonnie. Yeah. Do you feel you have a split personality? Do you assume a role when you go on stage? Funny thing, yes. I'm Bonnie on stage, full of it, and I'm anti-Gaynor, Gaynor at home, you know. And all my family call me Gaynor, of course, and my friends. Before we get on to your failures, I want to ask you what it was like touring the Soviet Union when you did, one of the first Western artists to do so.

12:41I was one of the first girls, I think I was the first Western girl to perform there. And it was very, very strange, but beautiful in a way as well, because I had my own band, obviously. I had my crew and we had a Polish crew there as well. and we took our own catering, thank God, because in them days you had to queue for anything, you know. We had, I believe it was the KGB taking care of us. We were in all these massive halls, you know. It was a bit strange because there'd be a lady on every floor of the hotels we stayed, you know. It's a normal thing. It was a normal thing in Russia then. But they watch everything.

13:33They write everything down. Whoever goes to a room, it's all written down, you know. But the audiences were loving it, you know, because they'd never had this before. But the strange thing is, the first 20 rows or something like that was all soldiers, you know, and police. The audience had to be very well behaved, you know. I mean, when you go to a concert, you want to go, yeah, you know, and sing along. Do you know what I mean? You know, in 1988, there was none of that then, you know. It completely changed then. I mean, I've been to Russia so many times. I've sang in the Kremlin three times. Haven't you?

14:11Who for? Putin, I know. What was that like? He was in the front row at one time. Was he dancing at Please Tell Me? No, he had a face down to his feet. The image, I sort of want him to be like mouthing the words to Total Eclipse of the Heart. Well, he was there because it was, I think this particular thing was like a charity for younger entertainers getting into it. Obviously, that's not going to happen anymore, which is a great shame because it had turned completely different to what the first time I went there. And then when I went back, I couldn't believe it. Like designer stores everywhere, you know, didn't have to queue for anything.

14:55I mean, we took our own catering. We had articulated lorries full of stuff, you know, that we'd taken over in the plane. I don't know the hell they managed it. I even took my sunbed over there. Can you believe it? Did you? No wonder my skin is fried. Your skin is beautiful. Thank God I never did my face, though. I always covered my face with a towel because I'd never looked good with a tan face. But my body was always brown. now I'm paying for it you know because my my skin on my arms and my legs and whatever oh god but well you look great my face is all right yeah your face looks fabulous okay so your first failure is elocution lessons oh yes how old were you when you started having elocution lessons well I'd already started singing and I was working like six nights a week in a nightclub and I used to be frightened about talking in between songs, you know.

15:55I mean, I tell stories now in between every song, you know, and I go on and on. But then I was really nervous about talking, you know. And so the owner of the club where I worked, his daughter had been going to elocution lessons and she spoke very nicely, you know. And I said to her mother, where did she go for an elocution lesson? So she told me, Mr. Veganer Powerwell. So I said, can you give me a crash course in elocution lessons? Well, that didn't last very long. I said, I better leave you before you end up talking like me. So were you going because you wanted to diminish your Welsh accent?

16:45Yes. I wanted to calm it down a bit, but I got no chance. I'm all over the world working, right? But there's no way I'm going to get rid of my Welsh accent. I can't do anything about it. It's a bit like Tom Jones, I suppose. Look at him. He lived in America since God knows when until recently, and he's still got his Welsh accent. I just imagine that all Welsh celebrities know each other. So do you know Catherine Zeta-Jones and Tom Jones? Well, Catherine Zeta-Jones is my husband's second cousin. So her father is Robert's cousin. And I actually sang in their wedding in New York. But Tom Jones, yes, I've worked with him a few times.

17:28In 1979, I think it was, when I had It's Heartache, a huge hit in America, I did three shows with him, supporting him as if he needs any support. He doesn't need anybody to support him, but his manager knew my manager. And so I was on the bill, you know, and it was incredible. He was incredible and he still is. And we all went out for dinner every night after the show. It's fabulous. But no, I don't have his telephone number. I can't call him a friend or such, you know, because I don't, we're not in touch. But, you know, the last time I saw him was that we were doing a charity show together with lots of other artists in the O2 in 2020, just before the lockdown came.

18:19That was the only other time I hadn't worked throughout my life during lockdown, you know. But he was very nice. I got a lot of time for him and he's still awesome, you know. Yeah. His voice is as strong as ever. Well, this is for you.

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19:41I'm very interested in this idea of Welshness and your Welsh heritage, though, and I would love to talk about your parents, who sound amazing. Tell us about your mum and your dad. Your dad was this World War II veteran. Yes. And very affected by what he'd witnessed. Well, he saw my uncle and his brains shot out, you know what I mean? Sometimes, occasionally, when he'd come home and he'd had a few drinks, He'd be like crying and saying about Uncle Frank, you know, and, you know, the things they went through. Can you imagine? No. You can't imagine, can you, you know, being in Dunkirk, you know. And my other uncle was there as well, my Uncle Ernie.

20:23And he had terrible problems afterwards psychologically. But my father didn't have it that bad, you know. It's just memories coming back to him and in drink, you know. and he'd be like, there's a word for it now, isn't there? Post-traumatic. Post-traumatic stress or something. But no, they just had to get on and deal with life, didn't they? But my father, he was only a minor for a very short time when he was a young man. But he was working as a fitter and turner in the oilworks in the BP. And when he was young as well, he used to be a very good boxer. You'd never think so, mine, because he was so beautiful.

21:02He was absolutely gorgeous. but I have got his blue eyes. You do have amazing blue eyes. My daddies. And was it a happy childhood? Yes, it was very happy. We didn't have any material things as such, you know, but nobody did in them days, you know what I mean? I was born in 1951, and when you think of it, that's not long after the war, is it, you know? But my pride and joy was my bike, you know. I love my bike. I used to go everywhere on my bike. Growing up in a big family, three sisters, two brothers, there wasn't a lot of, hardly any money around, just enough to get through, you know what I mean?

21:43The pantry was basically what was in the garden. You say you have three sisters and two brothers. Yeah. There was another sister. Oh, yes. Pauline. Yeah, Pauline was stillborn. My mother never, ever got over Pauline dying, you know. She was full term, you know, nine months. I can't. Do you know the thing is, see, when you're young and you're told that you would have had another sister, but she was stillborn. It doesn't sink in what actually my mother actually must have gone through carrying a baby for all those nine months and then nothing at the end of it. It must have been traumatic. But she never really showed us her pain.

22:36It must have been terrible for her. But she never did get over it. Whenever people said, how many children do you have? And she always counted Pauline, you know. And actually, in 2020, my brother, my eldest brother died, Lynn. I'm so sorry. He was so proud. He was, you know, he was wonderful. And he wasn't ready to go. He was enjoying his life. You know, he loved life. He loved his kids. He loved his grandkids. And he just died in his sleep. I'm so sorry. And now it was an awful shock. Awful shock. Bonnie, I'm so sorry. Anyway, sorry. I'm so sorry. Oh, well, you know, he had a wonderful life. And I know he's in a good place.

23:21But it was a terrible shock. Yes. And so you could relate, presumably, even more to what your mother must have been through. Yeah. Yeah. You know, because at least he's with my mother and father now and Pauline and, you know. Will you tell me the story of the father Christmas napkin? Oh, right. Oh, gosh. I'm sorry. I read it and it was so beautiful. Yeah, I know. But my mother, she died of Alzheimer's, bless her.

24:00and shortly before she... We don't have to talk about it. I'll be all right now. Okay. Shortly before she, you know, got really bad with Alzheimer's, she was at my house and it was near Christmas, I suppose, because I had these placemats on the table that they had like a Father Christmas on them and like a pocket where you put the napkin in. And it was very Christmassy, you know. And she folded it up all the way into like a little triangle. It was a linen placemat that you put over a placemat, you know. and she folded it up into like a little triangle and she gave it to me in my hand and she said, when I go, please put this in my coffin, right?

25:12I said, ma 'am, don't talk like that. You know, I want you to put it in my coffin, she said, because I want to give Pauline something when I get there, she said. Oh, God. Anyway, so I did it along with us all putting little things in the coffin, you know, photographs, lectures, as you do, you know. But she wanted me to do that, so I did it. And I still got one. You had a tea as well. I've still got one in my house. Thank you. Oh, thank you. That's a dish. I'm so sorry. Oh, gosh. Oh, I had the best mother in the world, though. I know we all say we got the best mother, but I did. Yeah. She was an angel.

26:06In fact, when I had my boat, I had a 50-foot, what do you call it, princess boat. Yeah. And it was for my 50th birthday. But just before my 50th, my mother died. So I said to Robert, forget about the boat. I don't want it. Nothing. After you, Mother, you know? Yeah. Nothing mattered. And anyway, I did the following year. And my father was still alive then. He was alive for 18 months after my mother. So the boat was being built down in Plymouth. so before we took it over to Portugal where we have a house there we said daddy come in and have a look at the boat you know and so we took him down to Plymouth and he kissed the side of the boat you know and we took him out for a spin in it you know it was it had a fly bridge and everything you know it was a fabulous boat with three bedrooms and and daddy absolutely loved the boat but I said to him dad I want to name it after mammy but I don't want to call it Elsie you know straight away he said there was an angel in the harbour you know he pointed at the angel and he said call it angel he said your mother was an angel and so we called it angel yeah so uh I had that boat for about 21 years.

27:45We had wonderful times on there and all the family and everything, you know, great holidays with friends and family. And I sold it last year because I found that I wasn't going out in it so much, you know. I cannot thank you enough for sharing that. Oh, I'd love everybody to know, actually, what a wonderful person my mother was and my father, you know yeah i think you have paid great tribute to them with that and what and what a testament you are to them too she always brought us up all of us to believe in ourselves you know it's strange because she was such a gentle person right and of course with six children or seven i mean you would have said yeah she was working so hard in the house keeping the house clean and washing and ironing and we were terrible, mind.

28:40We weren't any help at all. I can't... Looking back now, I think, God, you know, but the only thing I did do was, like, tidy my bedroom now and then, you know, and I can't remember ever learning to cook or anything like that, you know. My mother was too busy doing it for us all, you know. She brought us all up to believe in ourselves, even though she was a housewife, you know, and she was doing everything. A housewife's job is so hard anyway, but she didn't have a chance to do anything else, even if she wanted to. But she had the most incredible opera voice, but she only did it in the house. You know, people used to stand outside of my house just to listen to my mother sing an opera.

29:27That's amazing. Fabulous. I mean, there was all kinds of music in my house because of all the generations, different generations, you know, there. My eldest sister was into like Frank Sinatra. My brother, Lynn, loved him. He loved Elvis Presley, Eddie Cochran and all that, you know. And then there was Angela, the Beatles and, you know, all the 60s bands. And she gave me my first album, Hard Day's Night. I know every single word of it, of the whole album. and I got to meet Paul McCartney in the end. Oh, wow, that must have been an amazing thing. But yeah, funny that my mother gave us all so less to be confident and yet she was very, very low-key herself, you know.

30:13So you were all into music and you were all into singing. So why do you think you're the one who became... Fate, I think. Do you think it's fate? I really do think. And not only that, I heard somebody saying the other day, something and I thought yeah that's really good that is fate comes away but be ready for it and bite its hand off yes yes oh Bonnie thank you so much for telling us about your family your wonderful wonderful family so you had this innate talent for singing you become a superstar and then we come on to your second failure now this failure I couldn't believe it it's such a good one again because it goes to the heart of everything that we're talking about.