Danny O Donoghue - ‘I’m finished drinking, I’m finished smoking, everything’

0:00This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to-do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person, on the phone, or using the award-winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

0:35Hello and welcome to How to Fail with me, Elizabeth Day. This podcast puts failure in the spotlight and asks us what we learn from the moments in life that don't go according to plan. Because I firmly believe that most failure can teach us something if we let it. I just wanted to remind you that for the first time ever How to Fail is going on tour and will be presented by Hey You, the home of reality TV Each show I'll have a very special guest sharing their three failures on stage so you can expect the usual uplifting, hilarious and moving conversations Tickets are on sale now Head to feign.co.uk or follow the link in the show notes You can join me for more how to fail in our subscriber series, Failing With Friends.

1:25Every week I get some extra time with my guests to answer your failures and questions. This week, you'll hear more from Danny O'Donoghue. The one thing that I can say is there is good in every situation. And that's the hardest thing to think of at the time when you're surrounded by negative thoughts, everything else. But if it's not in the moment you find the wisdom, definitely in retrospect, looking back, you do. And we'd love to hear from you. Just follow the link in the podcast notes.

1:55Danny O'Donoghue is a singer-songwriter best known for being the frontman of the Irish band, The Script, and a coach on the first two series of singing talent show, The Voice. He was born and raised in Dublin, the youngest of six children. Although his father was a musician, O'Donoghue was at first determined to pursue a different career, but he ended up dropping out of school to start a band with his best friend Mark Sheehan. Their first band was called My Town and had modest success. For 10 years O'Donohue and Sheehan lived in LA writing songs for other artists including Britney Spears and TLC.

2:32They teamed up with a drummer and eventually returned to Ireland to record their first album as The Script. The band have six UK number one albums, six billion streams and 11 million album sales to their name. But it hasn't been easy. Last year, Sheehan died at the age of 46 after a brief illness, a shock that was felt with seismic impact by his family and friends. The script has now reformed as a foursome and in August released their new album, Satellites. They go on tour in November, for the first time since the death of their beloved bandmate. The name of the new album has particular importance for O'Donohue.

3:17It's taken from one of the last songs he wrote with his best friend before he passed. We're all just bits of dust floating through space, O'Donohue says. Satellites rise above the earth and they have a vantage point to look down and you communicate through satellites as well. So there's a lot of meaning behind it for me. Danny O'Donoghue, welcome to How to Fail. Hey, thank you. Good to see you after all these years. I know. Well, I said to you when you walked through the studio door that I actually interviewed you when you did your first series of The Voice. Yeah. And I reread that interview recently.

3:55It was for the Observer newspaper. And in it, I say he's one of the nicest celebrities I've ever interviewed. So that's a big thing to stand up to. Yeah, he pulled the wool over my eyes. for an hour. And I've been doing it ever since, yeah. Well, it's lovely to see you again. Thank you. And I'm sorry for what you've been through. I think that's what I want to start off by saying. I can only offer my sincerest condolences. I appreciate that. Thank you. Do you feel, Mark, looking on like a satellite? Yeah. Some days are good, some days are bad. I always feel his presence, but probably more so around promotion or when we're doing public things.

4:33It's one thing to grieve to lose a friend you know he's my best mate for nearly over 30 years but then also to do it publicly and then to do it repeatedly it's just tough man it's really tough but I think the thing that I learned probably this year more so is that the more open that I can be personally I've always tried to be that in my music like the art form of making music to me is always something that I've said well if I bleed on the page and I can talk about my past and my childhood and stuff somebody else can associate themselves or see a little bit of themselves in. I grew up in a very musical household.

5:09Like you said, my father was a fairly prominent musician in Ireland. So I grew up at the foot of somebody who was expressing himself all the time on the piano. We had a piano. I didn't know what I was doing at the time, but I'd go into a room if someone annoyed me, I'd go into a room and I'd just scream and sing as loud and as hard as I could. But what I am realizing now as an adult is you know I'm level four now so I'm like I'm at a different area in my life and I realized that almost I'm I'm now turning into that song I'm turning into an open book where I feel that the more honest I am about myself in scenarios like this and to is the more that I'm helping other people it's it's it's it's an amazing thing it's tough to do because you're you know you're opening yourself up for for everything because you're vulnerable but I feel like in today's day and age being vulnerable is a massive asset and is a big shield that you can almost guard yourself because there's nothing to hide behind.

6:05Thank you. And it's how I strive to live my life as well, but I've never heard it so well expressed. And that feeling of letting everything in, every emotion in and understanding, as Rilke said, no feeling is final, but you have to feel it in order to create the art and I think that that's what you clearly do so beautifully. I feel like art is the only justification that there is for pain. The reason why I went to music in the first place, not even words, when I was just making sounds, I used to perceive any slight that came towards me because I was never a fighter. I couldn't physically, I was always terrified of if somebody had a physical altercation I'd shake and you know just you get this sick feeling in your stomach but how I used to put reins on that and try and turn that into something positive was I didn't know what I was doing at the time but I'd go into a room if someone annoyed me I'd go into a room and I'd just scream and sing but as loud as and as hard as I could and looking back on it now I think what I was doing I was verbalizing my pain but I was also getting better at singing so I was in some way using that energy from negative energy and in a way turning it into positivity for me.

7:20I didn't realize that at the time, but now looking back, I realized that that was probably a gift. I grew up in a very musical household. Like you said, my father was a fairly prominent musician in Ireland. So I grew up at the foot of somebody who was expressing himself all the time on the piano. I used to sleep downstairs on a mattress on the ground. There was a piano in the corner. There's a guitar, bass, drums, and there was just writing on the wall for 20 years. It was called the Rock and Roll Room. So it was like, it's a pretty modest house. It was about three bedrooms. We had six kids. Like you said, it was eight people and my granny and a dog and a bird.

7:55It was pretty crazy growing up. Before we get onto your failures, which obviously will involve your recollections of this best friend who you said something so beautiful about Mark that you knew him before you knew what knowing was. One of the interviews that I read. What was he like? Just a great guy to be around. You know, I was, he was four or five years older than me. I was coming out of a bad patch, I guess, as a kid trying to find what I was going to do in life. You know, I was, I got diagnosed with a disease called Wilson's disease when I was about 11 or 12. And I lost all my friends around that time because if you get diagnosed with something, kids don't, kids think they can get it.

8:36But it hit me really hard, I guess, as a kid that I was shunned away if you know what I mean I don't blame anybody for that but I remember being at a particularly low point and Mark was a breakdance teacher in this place called the the Blue Lagoon which was like a youth club center I just remember looking at the class and I was I was watching like MTV and stuff as a kid and I was watching you know all everybody like you said TLC all these people dancing so colorful and amazing I was like what a great thing to be able to do so this was the closest thing that I'd seen to America was like in my local youth club right his breakdance and I was like that looks like a lot of fun so I went in I started the class right at the back of the class I was terrible for months and months you know what I mean but I started like getting my act together and starting doing the routines and stuff and I started moving up towards the front of the class made friends with Mark made friends with everyone in the class and then things progressed.

9:33I started teaching then. I got really good. And then after about two or three years, started teaching. So Mark had a group of kids that he taught, but also that were good enough to then teach out. So it was like, it was the first time, I guess I'd seen his ability to like have people do stuff for him. You know, he was a great businessman. He was also making a cut off all the kids who were teaching for him too. So we'd have us all out in different places. We'd all then report back to him on the weekend, give the money in. But I was a kid and I had very little confidence. I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing in life.

10:08And this was probably the first person, I guess, that put me on a path, gave me something to aim for. It was somebody that gave me confidence, that trusted me no matter what. He knew that I had something wrong. He knew all these things. So that kind of confidence to be pumping into a young kid is, I suppose, at that age in life is absolute gold. You know, he'd stand up for you if there was anything going on. He was a great fighter. He was a great friend. He was very funny. He had an aura. You know those people who have it? He had it. I think the kids would call it Riz. Riz, yeah. That's what they'd say, isn't it?

10:43He's Riz with a lot of drip, yeah. Let's get on to your failures. Your first failure is that you failed music in school and you subsequently dropped out. and so you failed to complete your schooling. Yeah. So we've heard a bit about your childhood there, about being surrounded by musicians and the power of storytelling. Yeah. But there was something about you that was resistant to music in the first place. What was that? Well, because both my brothers had been in bands, my dad had been in a band, and my dad would be out on tour or my brothers would be out on tour. Seeing my mum miss my dad and seeing her miss the kids, I guess I just rebelled against it for a little bit.

11:21in ireland back then we only we didn't have a real a really great music program we had like your your instrument was a recorder yeah so everybody comes in just playing a recorder i was pretty good i've got a great ear for music so i i don't need to practice on it so if i have a recorder and you tell me play fairer jack i can play it straight away i don't even need to practice and where i guess somebody else beside me wasn't able to do it i just excelled in in that in that area so I could play anything on piano by by ear from growing up in a music room same thing on guitar but the one thing I couldn't do was remember what year Beethoven was born I couldn't spell his name I couldn't for the life of me think about what his parents were called what city he was from any of the academic stuff that goes along with studying music and I failed I failed music and yeah it was shocking for me because I I went to the school for that but I thought I prided myself and I was just like so nonchalant sitting in the back of class like I can do whatever I want and it was clear that I couldn't and then I left Benilde as a fourth year because I wasn't getting on well in the school etc my mum just thought like just let's go for a change we went to some another place where there was less rules there was no uniform you could smoke it was not in class but outside like you know it was a lot less rules on it which I think suited me and I went there and then I spent a year there and it kind of just got a little worse for me so I I was okay like I got pretty decent marks but I just wasn't interested in school and the music bug had caught me big time I was sitting down the back of class my my mum was saying that my English teacher was like look he's he's doing nothing he's just sitting in the back of class writing songs and poems and all sorts so here's the other side is you should take a look at them because they're really good so I don't know what he wants to do or what you want to do with him.

13:14So my mum said in between fifth and sixth year, what do you want to do? And she found this place called the Paranel School of Music and they took me in on my practical. So I played, I sang and they allowed me, they were a little less stringent on the academic side so the fact that I couldn't remember names or, you know, didn't matter to them. I absolutely loved the place. I went in for production for piano, guitar, bass drums production uh vocal arrangements and then i about was there about four months for four or five months and i uh i then got a record deal which in america which is crazy so mark in the meantime um mark had set up a band called my town and they'd done a few showcases and they were invited back over to do a showcase but one of the members had subsequently left the band and Mark obviously knew me a long time.

14:09He knew I could pick up anything. I could sing. I could play anything. And he was like, look, we got a showcase in, I think it was a month back over in America for this guy called Doug Morris from Universal. And he said, do you want to be in the band? I said, I've been waiting for this my whole life, you know. So I joined the band. We went over and we got a record deal. We got signed for, it was the biggest pop deal in history. So we got signed for 15 million. Are you joking? No. That's wild. Yeah, look it up. We got signed for 15 million over seven. Now when I say I didn't get the money, it's over like seven albums and you span the money over that.

14:44So I was like 16, 17. I got whisked out of Ireland, got flown over to America. We ended up working with them, Boys to Men, Dallas Austin, who produces for TLC, Teddy Riley for Black Street, Montel Jordan, like back in the day, you know, all these people, people listening there are like, who are these people? You're really showing your age. You know what I mean? So you're 16, 17 when you go to age. Yeah. Yeah. Before we get onto that bit, I'm very interested in your childhood because clearly it was filled with love. Yeah. And it sounds like it was also filled with a slight edge of danger because you've mentioned fighting a few times and how you had to be a fighter to get through.

15:28What was it like? Was it quite difficult? I'm lucky. I'm not, I wasn't from the poorest areas in Dublin. It was just, we're working class you know I think in Ireland no matter how much money you have if you have six kids you know life's tough you know what I mean you have to provide for them so you know it wasn't I wasn't grown up fighting on the streets of Dublin or anything like that you know nothing of the sort but I guess in Ireland the more the older I'm getting the more I realize that the alcoholism that was going on around me the constant partying that was going on around me the the fact that our family I guess was in entertainment there's a lot of leeway given there's a lot of liberties that are given and I don't personally I wouldn't change it any of it but I'd be mad to not look back on it and think some of the difficulties I got into later on in life would have been because I came up from that kind of an upbringing now I just mean that you know it's we're so sociable in Ireland you know my dad was an amazing piano player people adored him and who is he to stop people coming back from the house and having a party and you know so but also there was there's not somebody else saying like we shouldn't be doing this everybody in the whole neighborhood is like let's go back it's back to Shays we're going to play piano but at the same time this could be a Saturday night this could be a Sunday night this could be I'm up for school the next morning um and then it would happen quite regularly but not just with my dad my brothers were in bands as well So there was always something to celebrate.

16:58There was always a big show going on. There was always tons of people around, which looking back, I don't think was the best environment for me growing up academically, you know, going into school the next morning, tired. I just, I always remember just being exhausted in school. And when you say some of the trouble you got yourself into later in life, what are you referring to? Did you ever struggle with substance abuse? yeah alcohol big time and i still do you know um i think the part of it you know i was very experimentative as a kid you know as you would be i'm a musician um so yeah like i've done drugs in the past and um that would be a reoccurring like i go sober for a few years and then you know have a few drinks and then this and the other so i'm always dabbling and this that and the other but never to the extent where it's gotten too out of hand where i've had to go anywhere you know so I think um but I don't have any I don't have any difference a story than anybody else growing up from my time in Dublin and that's the mad part is the coping mechanisms right so what I talked about before is I failed music in school the reason why I only found out like like I said I'm 44 years old now the reason why I failed all of those things is because I'm dyslexic so what I did was I went back through my mind in my mind I went back through all of those certain situations where everything just fell into place why if I had a scenario where I was supposed to learn in school was the hardest thing for me to do was to because I don't learn at the same speed as everybody else I learn in a different way so a very physical with dance, I excelled in dancing and music in a lot of different arts.

18:42So I wouldn't necessarily learn the same as everybody else. But even things like that took through to adult life, I have the scenario where if the anxiety builds up and this feeling builds up inside me, if I'm going to do something that I've never done before, because the kid in me is saying, they're going to ask you to do something you're not able to do. And it's going to be embarrassing for you. And you're not going to be able to know what it is and just so I'll jeopardize myself before I get to that point and I'll make up something else and blow up that makes me not go to that thing if it's something that I feel innately I'm not going to be able to handle or I'm going to seem like I'm not as good as everybody else it's like I don't know it's like mixing with imposter syndrome or throw in being shunned by some of my friends from finding out I had a disease as a kid so all of those things mixes this giant cocktail that you just everything then has to go through that filter before it even gets you I know we're jumping around a lot but that's life is life jumps around a lot and I feel this year because of Mark passed away I've had this epiphany I guess that like last year like when you're talking about substances I'm not I've never been into hard hard drugs at all but like I said smoked a little bit during the years and stuff too but alcohol was the big one depression is a massive one after mark passed away last year i was i called a therapist straight away a friend of mine suggested a therapist to me that it am that they thought was very good because i felt like i was doing okay i felt like my best friends just passed away i haven't cried yet i've just gotten through the funerals you know we had it wasn't we had two funerals we've also been going around the world and we'll dedicate a song to him every night and allowing the fans to to openly grieve as well so i kind of get i guess i got an inkling that maybe something's coming down the road here and i'd like to get there before it gets me so contacting him contacted a therapist and then one therapy session is not enough two isn't enough a week is not enough a month is not enough you need to be going to a therapist for at least a few months give it at least six weeks before that person is the chance to see you in in different states to then get an overall opinion you know because everybody has the the perfect five minute me like i'm sitting here you know what i mean like i sit here and within five minutes such good phrase the five minute me but if you hang it that's why podcasts are brilliant because after the five minutes it's you that's who people actually get to see past the bullshit you know what I mean and then experience who you are but I think therapy um the therapy side of it for me was was was brilliant in that I was seeing levels I was able to step outside myself and it was the first time it opened my mind to the fact that there might be somebody else in here who's trying to jeopardize me the fact that you can catch yourself doing something but the thing the trick is once you catch yourself doing something you can never run see it as in and I'll give you an example um it was a must have been Christmas time when I got home uh this this Christmas and I was about to get on the plane and I was saying to myself Dublin's going to be quite triggering for me uh I'm going to be stone-cold sober for the whole of Christmas because he's everywhere Mark's everywhere and um and also people they just want to show support and they can't help but bring it up and I get it but just like my father I when my father passed away I deal with it in my time but this is something that I have to do in real time and it's going to be every day probably probably for the rest of my life so I'm gonna have to deal with it and I think by the time I got off the plane I was smashed with every intention to get on that plane saying I'm not going to drink at all and then while I was on it whiskey please bang and I just hammered the got home and I pretty much spent Christmas just pissed.

22:41I do this one thing on Christmas Day, doing it for 14 years now, where I go to Temple Street Children's Hospital from 9 in the morning till 3. 3 in the afternoon, we spend time with the kids and the nurses and it's a beautiful, beautiful morning. So I wasn't drunk Christmas Eve after the hospital and then just went straight out to my sister's, had dinner straight on the Guinness again. And I went like the 25th, 26th, 27th, just drunk the whole time. and then the 27th I said if I stay in Dublin much longer this is just so bad for me so I just I cut it short went home to the UK where I have my studio and stuff my girlfriend lives and I just I said that's it that's it I'm finished I'm finished drinking I'm finished smoking I'm finished anything stimulant caffeine everything it was on the 27th of December and that's it I I gave up everything that day.

23:35And I, for the first time, was able to legitimately say, there's another guy in here who's fucking hijacking me. And then also on top of that, I bit the bullet and I went back to church. I want to ask you more about that. Sorry, I kind of talked. No, it was amazing. Blasted you there for 30 minutes. It was amazing. and I am so admiring of your courage for facing that inner demon that you have. And the scariest kind of inner demon is one that has your face, is one that is part of you. Oh, I love that guy. I mean, he got me through my worst times. He protected you in the way that he knew how. And it sounds to me so much as if you had, there was a lot of confusion.

24:22Some of it was beautiful confusion in your childhood. Some of it was beautiful chaos. And actually now you're getting clarity and that comes across loud and clear. And actually you have explained your third failure as you perceive it, which is your failure to look after yourself physically and spiritually as an adult. Yeah, 100%. And I want to come back to that failure specifically, but I wonder if you could tell me more about your faith and your journey with that.

24:52At Sierra, discover great deals on top brand workout gear, like high-quality walking shoes, which might lead to another discovery. 40 ,000 steps, baby. Who's on top now, Karen? You've taken the office step challenge a step too far. Don't worry, though. Sierra also has yoga gear. It might be a good place to find your zen. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving. I'm Christian McCaffrey, pro running back, and Abercrombie is an official fashion partner of the NFL. I'm not kidding when I say NFL by Abercrombie broke the internet last year, and I think this season's lineup is even cooler.

25:31And so does my wife, who keeps stealing all my hoodies. Stay fit for the season and Abercrombie's newest arrivals. Shop NFL by Abercrombie in the app, online, and in store.

25:52yeah it comes and it goes you know I am like grief yeah yeah depending on the stage that you're going through in life you look for different things and crutches and I grew up in very in Catholic Ireland my mum was very religious my dad also we were you know not say made go to church but church was a part of our upbringing we went on a Sunday my sister used to take me all the time and then I became an altar boy so I had a I had an instilled belief in Christianity and Jesus and stuff from a kid so I lost faith I guess not lost it but I just it wasn't at the forefront of my thinking I think you know when you're a teenager particularly in your 20s you're just like you know it's sex drugs and rock and roll and it's you know that's the last thing you're thinking of and you don't want to think of of this this guy looking down you all the time and he knows all your what you're doing because a lot of the stuff you do in your teens is bad well perceived bad anyway because it would be necessarily against what your parents would want for you if you know what i'm saying so you have this you know it's naughty and it feels good but it's not kind of stuff so i guess i lost it through that but um always return to it i've always been massively spiritual when i say spiritual i've meditated.

27:05I know that I'm smart enough to know that I'm dumb enough to know that I'll never know. Yes, that's so well put. That's exactly how I feel. Yeah. So I don't need the answers. I don't need to find the answer to God. This is it. I have a feeling. I have things that have happened in my life that are very specific to me. And that's, I don't need to explain that to anybody else about who I think, you know, who I think God is or what I think it is, but I feel it. It's funny because I'm the guy who sings, you know, I'm still alive, but I'm barely breathing. I just prayed to a God that I don't believe in, right?

27:40In the song Break Even. So people were like, well, he's atheist. And it's like, no, I'm in such a bad spot right now that I just prayed to somebody that I swore I didn't believe in. But why am I praying? Because I obviously do. Do you know what I mean? Yes. I also am aware that the time that you're talking about after your teenage years, you lost your dad very young. He died aged 63 on Valentine's Day. And then your mom died on the same day, some years later. And they both died of aneurysms. Is that right? But different kinds. Yeah. My dad died of stomach aneurysm. My mom's brain aneurysm. I'm so sorry.

28:19And I can't imagine how horrendous that was to go through. And I wonder what those those losses had they informed your spiritual relationship i'm not sure because it was so confusing at a time my dad pat because there's a lot of things going on at that one time where we just got in a record deal in america and we were like that's it we're back in you know my town had failed and then we were back in again with my with the script now and we just got signed and we got a call to say that Mark's mother had fallen very ill. So Mark immediately was like, well, I've got to go back to Dublin. So we kind of packed up everything in America and we moved back to Dublin.

29:04We'd set up a studio out the back in a place called James Street where his mom and his family had this shed out the back that we turned into the studio. It was right beside where Guinness' Brewery is. So you've got the smell of hops and stuff during the day. But we wrote there and he was going around to visit his mom because she was in James Street Hospital and he would see her during the day and then he'd come around and on those hours just pour his heart out on the page which songs like The End Where I Begin and Anybody There songs kind of came around from that era and I thought I was being there for him as a mate by moving everything, coming home because it was the best headspace for him to be in considering we'd just gotten another record deal and this is our second bite at the pie or whatever cherry and um I didn't realize but then those in those times his mom had been slowly I guess um passing away over over while she'd been deteriorating and I was getting to hang out with my dad again because I'd been in America for a number of years and now I was coming back as an adult getting to spend time with my dad and it was maybe I think it was about six or seven months later Mark's mom had passed away um within a few months my dad within within the day he was there in the morning gone at night and it was crazy like I said you talk about idolizing my my mark my dad was the man you know what I mean he was the one that stemmed it all off from you know all of our brothers um still to this day we just want to be my dad because he was so kind so generous so amazingly like people think I'm good you should you should have seen me dad like he was incredible and um so the impact of that was massive but at the same time our first song had just broken on radio you know joe wiley gave us our first spin on we cry and i just got sucked into the into this what this is now so i don't know if i really if i really dealt with it at the time like i should have again smoking and drinking but i've got things to distract me from really facing what was going on and dealing with those issues at the time got sucked into the machine we had all that success and we had like man who can't be moved and break even came out and we went like top five in america and it was just everything i've ever wanted everything anything my dad had ever wanted and my family had ever wished for was all coming through at the one time and he's not here to see any of it like that's so weird he trained me for this like specifically was like I know it sounds ridiculous but he's like you're going to be you're going to be bigger than Elvis Presley you're going to be bigger than Elvis he was telling me since I was a kid he was probably he'll look at me hair I was going to say it struck me today like all day that you look really like Elvis Presley in his early years yeah the old the later years I'm going to say the Vegas years but he told me and it was this it was a big sickener it still is that he's not got to see this people will tell me that he's been he called it from the get go so since I was a kid he's like telling everybody wait wait and you see him you think those are good when you see this guy and then like I said we got sucked into the machine um we were on our third album we then the voice came along we'd had two number one albums people knew who we were but we needed like a moment that people could put the face to the name to the band to the music and the voice came along and then that was like this huge even like we thought we were famous before and then was just like put put us in the stratosphere um and it was that was the time where it got its craziest you know like paparazzis under your bush you know taking pictures of anybody going in and out of your house all that kind of stuff and then on the second year of the voice my mum I got a call to basically say my mum has had a yeah she's you know basically just get home now and we I rushed the hospital with her and we'd been in the hospital for a number of months she had she she couldn't talk couldn't speak she had very low low levels of communication skills and it took her a long time to get back to even it's called EDL like everyday living to a level where she could come back to the house again and just kind of like just do the things that she normally did so I just kind of shut up shop at that point I just like I left the voice I was just like I have to go home she then kind of was a different she was a different person a different mom but then we got time to really spend time together where she's just lying just my great favorite memories of me her just lying in bed watching something on tv two of us like sitting there holding hands and i'm just lying on tv with my mom like i was four years old again you know i just thought it was a really funny story actually she was there because of the brain the brain aneurysm she's like you want to come upstairs and watch uh watch um some hardcore porn and i was like i said fucking what she goes yeah do you want to watch some some porn stars upstairs and i was like are you asking me to go watch the pawn stars that's on discovery channel she's like yeah i was like okay now mom it's like just hilarious like the gift to get kind of get and she's just laughing her ass she's like why what did i say and i said you said this and i'm just laughing you're trying to find humor in in any or under all of it you know um but I I again I had time to spend with her and to really know that she loved me and she didn't just love me because it's a mother's job to love a kid but she liked me you know and I got to find that out and I had this great um really great relationship with her towards the end and my whole family rallied around to make sure that those last few years that she had were were huge so but my mum still to her to her last days huge believer in gods and we used to pray together she lost faith after my dad passed away she had a lot of questions about it and you know if there was a god why would why is he not still here why did you not take me instead you know beautiful um way to think about things i then i guess i not lost faith but i just put it on the back burner and then i didn't realize and this is probably a later thing and I'm only realizing it now through having my eyes open is the more that society continues on and the more social media happens the you're supposed to we grew up with this trust in government you know or government and your institutions about like schooling all the way across the board religion everything and but it within society they removed religion and they removed spirituality and they made stuff so beige but if you take out spirituality and the good parts of religion out of society something very bad is going to fill that space and i feel like the more i'm an adult now i feel like in that period i church was a laughing stock to me like if i had told anybody i was going to go to church to pray over my mom or whatever i'd be laughed at or there was all that sexual abuse stuff so it's like it comes with this horrible label that is man-made.

36:08That's not God-made. That's man manipulating that. And like I said, specifically, I grew up in a Catholic society. So if I had grown up anywhere else in the world, I probably would have been another denomination. I would have been another religion. I still would have had those same beliefs. There is something higher than we are. I just, I know that I'm smart enough to know that I'm dumb enough to know that I'll never know. I'm going to use that line myself. You're welcome. My final question on this particular failure is whether you think, whether your spirituality is one that allows the idea that when you die, you will see your loved ones again.

36:44I'm of the firm belief that the stuff that I do feel, I feel that I am you. You are me. We are all made of molecules. All these molecules are made of the universe. The realms of time and infinity. You're only here for a short amount of time. I don't have any fear of dying I have a fear of how I'm gonna die but death and being in a place with nothingness I was there before for a lot longer than I and I'm going to be there again so I'll feel more at home there than I probably ever will here I know that even the likes of Mark me man me dad they're all here they're helping me they're not like on my shoulder giving telling me things or whatever but I know that I feel them I am them I'm going to go back to source like whatever the source was, I know that they're there and I know that I'm going to go back.

37:30Is it a big party in heaven and there's all angels and whatever? Like, I don't, you know, I don't know. It's like, is alcohol good or drugs good? Is there drugs in heaven? Is there not? Is there like, do you know what I mean? Like, is there music in heaven? What type of music is certain? Are cats allowed and dogs allowed? You know what I mean? I know what kind of music, because one person's heavenly music would be another person's just fingernails on the chalkboard. Do you know what I'm saying? Like how, you know, how diplomatic do we have to be in heaven now? Do you know what I mean? We've got every, if you're letting everybody who's good up there we've all got different tastes and stuff so i'm not i don't think about it as that deep and i don't put like if i have a certain elements of faith that i do believe in or some that are questionable i don't discount all of it because i can't answer this one thing um if you're looking for what you're supposed to do in life lean into every feeling lean into every emotion if it's fear if it's pain if it's anguish if it's anything lean into the mob because that's all you have while you're here rinse life you know let's go for it.

38:31When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th, and never miss a meme or milestone, all protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. The new Popeyes and Hot Wins menu is the definition of fire flavor. We've got the sizzling sriracha dippers. 10 out of 10. Time to take it up a notch with the smoking raw whole chicken sandwich.

39:10That's so hot, but it's so good. Now onto the daring dab ghost wings. Yup, there it is. I love the spice level. Attempt the Popeyes and Hot Wins menu in stores, our hottest collaboration yet. Love that chicken from Popeye's. Limited time in participating US restaurants.

39:33I feel like I'm in a session with the most amazing professor of philosophy. It's actually so enlightening. You're expressing things that I really deeply feel, but articulating them in a way is exactly what you said you did at the start. turning your pain into a focal point that other people can connect with and to and and thank you for that we've got one more failure because I skipped it so um your second failure was that you failed with the first big record deal you had now was that the 15 million one or was that okay so how did you fail with it well it was it was failure for me at the time and like I said I was young we we had a single out at the time it did fairly well we we ended up being on like smash hits road show those are the days proper it was like you know everybody was on that show at the time and that was a big staple diet for me to be like on that i'm like i'm finally on smash hits like we're in the magazine like you know it's like being on first time on top of the pops or something you're like that's it now you've made it um but i at the time i thought that was literally the end of my career stroke life was um we we had the single out the single did all right to put the album out the album compared to the amount of who how that went on while we were signed um it failed you know it was a flop and i went home a tail between my legs i it was i was devastated but and also i'm in a musical family so it was even more weight was put on it because of the the excitement about what it could have been and the amount of money it was a dead set it was the most surest thing you could ever have and um and then a few years later I just find myself back in Dublin me and Mark tail between our legs not much money to show for it kind of the money that we had we we saved up and um he had met his um he had met his wife Rena while we were away and then she was recording who wasn't his wife at the time but she was recording an album and we we got invited over to come and kind of write a few songs and work with her and stuff and we were like look let's just give it our best shot give it our best go if if all we do is we're like if i'm making tea the back of the studio from now on i don't care i just want to be involved in music so we flew over to orlando um to go work with her and then we we got introduced to this guy called johnny right who managed Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake and NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, all these different people.

42:06And we, you know, if you let an Irish person in, put your foot in the door, we're bringing everybody in. So bringing the whole kitchen sink over. So, you know, we got an opportunity to do it and we never let go of it. So we went over, flew over. We got a gig, a paying gig. If I hadn't of believed in myself and backed, backed myself to go do it again I would the script would have never happened I would have been you know I think 23 24 washed up musician with my career over and this is just a lesson to people who feel like they're coming into something a little bit later on in life I was 27 when I got signed for the script so think about people who think like your pop career or your you know when you're young that that's all you have as youth is like no we we we did it later on in life so it was a bit of a blessing because I think if I had gotten the fame considering everything I talked about if I had gotten that fame early on I probably would have been washed up and career over by 23 24 so by the age of 27 then I was fully formed as an adult as a human and then ready to to basically enter into I guess one the most important part of my life you know Danny O'Donoghue I think what has come across loud and clear is that everything can be a blessing yeah in what you make of it or what you learn from it yeah exactly and I cannot thank you enough for being so open hearted and coming on How to Fail I've loved every second of it amazing I like to say I'm so glad of your success as well I watch the podcast all the time stop it but the things you do is great well it means a lot to me but you're going to stay and help a couple of listeners who've written in for your wise words of wisdom.