Emilia Clarke - ‘I’m A Bad Celebrity’

0:00I was just convinced that I had cheated death and I was meant to die. I'm a bad celebrity. I suck at it. I finally feel like I'm at a place in my career now where I'm like, I get it. This episode of How to Fail is brought to you by Dove Whole Body Deodorant. Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that believes, as James Joyce once said, that failures are the portals of self-discovery. Before we get into this episode, please do remember to like, follow and subscribe so that you never miss a single conversation.

0:56I'll always be angry. Could it have ended differently? From Tortoise Investigates and The Observer, this is foundling. Light's always come out, don't they? Skeletons are always going to come out eventually. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

1:12Girl, winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cut-offs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang-on-the-patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope? It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Amelia Clarke was three when she sat on her mother's lap on the front row of the London Palladium watching a production of Showboat that her sound engineer father had worked on.

1:53She was, she recalled later, transfixed and set her heart on becoming an actor. Almost 20 years later, her TV debut was a guest appearance on the BBC soap Doctors in 2009. Then, at the age of 23, Clarke was cast as Daenerys Targaryen, Mother of Dragons, in HBO's juggernaut fantasy series Game of Thrones. She received four Emmy nominations across eight seasons and became internationally famous, going on to star in films including Terminator Genisys, Solo, A Star Wars Story and the romantic comedy Me Before You. On stage, she won critical acclaim for her magnetic performance as Nina in The Seagull in the West End.

2:40But the fact that she had been a complete unknown at the time of her Game of Thrones audition left Clarke feeling she had, in her words, imposter syndrome times a million. It was not her only challenge. In 2011, just after filming had wrapped on the debut season, she suffered the first of two life-threatening brain aneurysms, a shattering experience that later led to her setting up the charity Same You with her mother, Jenny. Clark's charity work in neurorehabilitation earned her an MBE in the 2024 honours list. Now she returns to our screens in Ponies, a Cold War spy series on Sky and Now TV.

3:22Clark stars as one of the two US embassy secretaries in late 1970s Moscow who become CIA operatives after their husbands die in mysterious circumstances. Still yet to turn 40, that happens later this year, Clark's acting career has been one of notable highs. But she says, if there's anything else you can do, do that. Because acting has to be the only thing you can do to commit to the levels of failure. Amelia Clarke, welcome to How to Fail. Thank you so much. Well, you're amongst friends here. Oh my God. Yeah. That was beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on How to Fail, but also thank you for being such a supporter of this podcast from the very, very early days.

4:10It did not go unnoticed and it meant a lot. I loved ponies. Oh, good. It's so good. Good. It's fun. It's so fun. Yes. It feels so fresh. Yes. It's two female leads. That's the thing. It's two female leads. And it's not even, there's like, it's pure friendship. Yes. It's just pure friendship. There's no, it's not two family leads that are actually going to fall in love with each other it's just friends just friends just female friendship which is you know the most important part of my life and it's amazing to be able to have a show and be and that and that being the main theme of it and you've said that it's the hardest job you've ever done oh yeah which seems weird yeah for all the really i think maybe it's the best i'm being honest about how hard jobs are um no i've had some really horrible hard jobs.

5:04This was hard because this is the first time I have a production company and this is the first production that we are producing, that I was a producer and an actor in. The added little spicy thing that made it nearly impossible to do was the Russian. Yeah. I speak a lot of Russian. I'm not a linguist. Incredibly impressive. Thank you very much. Took a lot of work. Did you learn Russian just for the script or can you now speak it? Нет. I can speak those lines. What I do notice now is that when I'm walking around, I hear Russian in a way that I've never acknowledged before. I could, you know, you're like, oh, I think I know what you're saying.

5:53Or like watching the Americans, I'm like, oh, I got that. Yeah. I knew what they were saying. But no, I definitely do not speak the language Russian. And how did you learn the lines? You had a very specific technique, didn't you? Yes. I mean, we're saying I, I mean, Fabian, my incredible teacher for this. And he and I built a process that was like a six step process, which involves visualization. It involves a memory palace, but it also involves writing stories that then you put into the memory palace. So you have a Russian line and each word broken into its syllables, you know, paw. Let's say that's one of the sounds in one of the words in one of the sentences.

6:47You think of a paw. You think of like a dog's paw. So you're like, right, that's an image. And then you create images for each of these sounds. Then you make those into a story. so you're imagining this a dog and his paw is holding up this something else that's holding with a cow over here and a and so you create this whole story then you put that story in a space this is all in your mind in a space that you know very well and so you walk in and you see in your mind's eye the action happening in these very specific parts of the room and then you've learnt it. That's fascinating. Wild. The real outtakes is me just swearing profusely every time I mess it up.

7:32Do you have a similar technique for learning lines in English? No. I'm very lucky in that now they just go in. People ask, like, how do you learn my lines? You just do it. You just... Yeah, definitely it's that one part of my brain that muscle is just really well flexed. Like, it just... it just goes in. Before we get into your specific failures, that quote that I ended the introduction on, that idea that it has to be the thing that you do. What were some of the failures that you were thinking of when you said that? Oh, just every job you didn't get. Every comparison you make of yourself and someone else.

8:15Every time you think, oh, I did something that felt good. I took the right job I had the right experience people are saying lovely things and then you look and you're like but I should have done that and that's amazing and this now looks not good you know it's kind of a life of it's asking I think the industry is life the world everyone this is not just for actors is asking you to compare yourself to other people and asking you to compare your where you're at but unlike in any other job an actor's trajectory is not built upon you know what i mean yes so you start at the in the mail room at caa and american agency for actors and then within 15 years you should be a fully fledged agent with really impressive client list as an actor you start with one job and then you go to the left and you go to the right and then you doesn't work out and this doesn't work.

9:12You're not guaranteed to keep going up. And you have to prove yourself every time. Every single time. You have to reprove yourself every single time. We're going to get into your failures now because they're so great. Thanks. And Emilia Clarke is an incredibly chic person. And you've given me very chic failures. Oh. Because they were one word each. But within each word, I'm just so excited about the stories that they are going to contain. Yes. Your first failure, we start slightly softer. Your first failure is maths. Yeah. I could have just put numbers. I could have just, yeah, maths and numbers.

9:53I just can't do it. There's this word for being essentially dyslexic with numbers. Yes. I think that's dyscalculia. Yes. My dad was a, just a, the genius level, maths, like just the smartest man ever. My brother, the same, like crazy clever. And I was kind of always the thick one in the family, the dummy. And it all really began with maths. My dad would test me on my times tables and I would just cry. It sort of became this like pinnacle of unintelligence which followed me throughout my whole school career to the point where when I'm on stage doing the seagull in the west end and Tom Reese Harris the cheeky little bugger we're talking about prime numbers and it's scripted and we have our lines and he decides to change it one night because he thinks it's funny and he looks at me and he goes white because I've gone what I'm crying and he runs out you guys I'm so sorry like I saw you crumble I didn't mean to do that I think he then riffed for me but it's like this constant fear sounds like fear like a deep yeah like a fear of numbers but which feels like a colossal failure so interesting I feel I can relate to this I similarly had a thing with my dad who is terrifically intelligent and an amazing scientist.

11:29Yes. You know, he's retired now, he's a surgeon. And he hoped. Yes. And he used to try and teach me. Yes. And I felt so bad that I was not living up to what I perceived to be his expectation of me. So I was letting him down. Yes. Did you have that aspect? 100%. Yeah. I could see it in my dad, like, why aren't you getting it? and my dad was an incredibly sensitive, kind, loving, gorgeous man. I rarely saw him cross. But I knew in that moment in the back of the car of just going, I can't get part, like this is, I have done something wrong here. This is wrong that I can't do it because he's something that's so simple for him to do and I just could never get there and the more you avoid it, the bigger they become.

12:20And then you end up pulling pints in a bar in Hackney between the days before Game of Thrones when I'd just come out of drama school and I lost their money. I lost the bar money because people would give me a 20 and I would probably give that right back. I'd give them six drinks and the fear of not being able to calculate.

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14:48Talk to me a little bit about young Amelia and this transfixed moment you had when you went to see Showboat age three. Yes. Did you literally want to be an actor from that age? Yeah. how wonderful i know wild i mean it's what it sort of just sounds really precocious and obnoxious but i think with my dad in the theater i was aware of that job earlier than than someone else would have been i used to watch um audrey hepburn and rex harrington in in um my fair lady my fell ad i used to watch that daily for like four years i think fast forward through all of rex's bits i'm not him in the library nope not interested in you bruv um but that whole story had me transfixed and i just i remember being at school and we had put on they were putting on a play and this was baby school this was like before I mean I must have been five and I didn't realize it at the time but the teacher had us stand in a line and she gave us a paragraph to say out loud I now see that that was my first audition which is crazy that she made us audition really weird and then I and then I got and then she said okay that's the part that you'll play and I remember I ran out of the school gates and said to my mom I did it I got the part she was like what are you talking about I don't know what do you mean and that feeling of succeeding and getting the part and then I'm stood on stage in front of at that time it felt like a thousand people and I just felt really comfortable and I forgot my lines and I just stood and looked out into the audience and just smiled we got it all on camera me just going and very at ease very very at ease you felt aligned maybe yeah with all eyes on me I find it very moving that this failure has led us to talk about your dad yeah and I wonder if subconsciously or consciously maybe that's why you chose it maybe yeah because your dad died in 2016 yeah 10 years this year i'm so sorry thank you it's the worst it's i've had two brain hemorrhages i've had game of thrones and nothing there is nothing worse it's it was the it's the it's the single most transformative thing that's ever happened definitely definitely

17:44it's this thing where when I find and I when I meet women who've also lost their fathers the thing that happened that I didn't that I had that you can never predict or understand it feels like the safety net in the world has gone but it's a safety net you didn't know was there and it It was just unfathomable. I'm a relentlessly optimistic person and it was unfathomable that that could happen. And it took me years to just comprehend it. The finality of it, the enormity of it. and we just weren't prepared and it wasn't at no point did anyone say your dad's dying of cancer it was just like oh this is wrong with him and then this is wrong with him and then this is wrong with him and he'd had this cancer diagnosis and I was away I was filming and I went back I'll tell you my spooky story about this so I was filming this tiny movie that barely even got released because I wanted to I really wanted to do it and and I remember leaving and then being like should I be should I be leaving and my mum being like your father's a professional he would kill you if you didn't do this job so I was doing it in Kentucky which is like a 22 hour door to door journey and and I got some, we got the call that said, first of all, I had the call of your father's going into an operation that he might not live through.

19:32Talked to him on the phone. Not pleasant. He survived that. And then I got the call saying you have to come back home. So I got the flights back home and he was in a coma. And I sat with him for three days. And then my job was like, we can't continue filming if you don't. come home and my mum again was like it's two weeks you've got two weeks left like just go just go back so i went back and then woke on up in the middle of the night it's time you've got to come back so i didn't tell anyone i just left and the whole flight from kentucky two flights kentucky to new york new york to london i didn't have i didn't know But when I landed in New York, my mom was like, he's asking you to hurry.

20:30He was sort of like doing this and, you know, and this whole time you're like, I'm on this, I need this flight to move quicker. And I'll never forget, I got on the flight to New York and do you remember the days of satellite phones? Yes. So this was 2016. There wasn't, the Wi-Fi didn't exist in planes at that point, probably didn't. And I asked them, I was like, do you have a satellite? And they were like, what are you talking about? Of course we don't. And I was like, okay. Okay, so I'm just going to be sitting on this flight for like 10 hours and I can't contact anyone. Oh, my God. How do I even, I can't, this is really difficult.

21:08So I was sat there and I just knew I needed to calm myself down. So I was like, what can I do? I'm going to do a thought experiment. I'm going to imagine that I'm in the hospital. how what what could get into a hospital a bird is too big they would know that there was a bird in the hospital forget the bird a butterfly a butterfly can be in a hospital and so I imagine that I'm flying around the hospital and I'm like making sure that the doctors are going to do a really good job and I'm fluttering around my dad being like I'm coming I'm coming home I'm coming I'm coming, like, hold on, you're going to be fine.

21:51And then I somehow fall asleep. And in a dream, I'm in the dream, and I'm in my airline seat, and my dad's hospital bed is next to me, and he just turns and said, I just came to say goodbye. And I land, and my mum sends me a text saying, don't rush. So I knew that he'd passed, and he passed at the time that I was having the dream. and then I you know I get there and I see I spend time with his body which just you know I was there with my dad my mom and my brother have been in the hospital for days and we open the house and there's butterfly is flying around the room so now I just see my dad in butterflies everywhere and every summer, which because he passed away in July, it's just, I don't know.

22:44I just feel so strongly that what happens after we die, we don't know. But one thing's for certain is that we go back into the world. We go back into the world. My father was cremated and he is everywhere. Yes. He's absolutely everywhere. That is so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. And this is the extent of my scientific knowledge is that we're made up of atoms. This is where science and spirituality meet. And my dad was a deeply spiritual yet deeply scientific man. He deeply believed in black holes. And I'm like, that's where you are. We're in a parallel universe. And I miss him every single day.

23:36And I know that he, the only good thing about having someone that you love pass away is that every good thing that ever happens, you know it's them. And I feel that. Yes. I really, really feel that. Thank you so much. He sounds like a wonderful person. And I hope you're going to be kind to yourself in July. Yes. Yes. No, we always do something or at least, you know, if we're not all together, we'll always try and do something. Sometimes it's just going to the pub and raising a pint because he liked beer. Yeah. Beer and butterflies. What a legend. Beer and butterflies. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. This sort of brings us on to your second failure.

24:15Yeah. Which is recovery. Yeah. And I know a little about this because of our mutual friend, Clemency Burton-Hill. Yes. Who went through a brain aneurysm and the process of recovery was very long and challenging. It was a really big thing to go through. and she had a near-death experience that was a sort of visceral it was a visceral thing that she went through and I wonder whether you ever experienced something similar whether that changed your attitude no so this is the this is why I have recovery as a failure yeah uh I I wrapped the first season of game of thrones wild experience biggest job of note you know I'd never done anything with America.

25:09I didn't really quite understand the level of what HBO was and could be and clueless, but had the most incredible time. But it flipped my life upside down. So I was quite stressed. And we wrapped that in December and February. I was in the gym doing a plank and had my first brain hemorrhage and then spent the next two weeks with my agent trying to not tell HBO until they knew I wouldn't die. So the first two weeks after a brain injury, if you're not clearly severely mentally disabled or in a coma or whatever it might be, they're just waiting for something to go wrong. They're waiting for it to get worse.

25:52I was in A &E until they worked out what was wrong with me. And then I went to a different hospital and they were plugging me in. And I just kept trying to say, I've got to go to work. I can't can't be here how long am i how long is this gonna take and they're like you've got your brain is bleeding it's gonna take quite some time so that took a long time for me to wrap my head around but as soon as i left hospital i had maybe maybe a month and then i was doing press for the first season of game of thrones still with a bit of morphine bloody hell amelia i was so ashamed that this thing had happened and that the people who had employed me might see me as weak or see me as something that could be broken.

26:43I was so like, I'm fine. I'm fine. And I was so young and it was so all consuming that any repercussions of the injury, I just absolutely ignored and tried my best to just like, pretend like it didn't happen in order to get back to work in order to keep working and be you know good and then very quickly after that we were doing season two did you tell anyone on game of thrones at all no i told david and dan the showrunners uh because i felt it was like my duty to say i didn't die so everything's fine but just letting you know and they were obviously very kind and lovely but it was not something I told a single soul because I just didn't want anyone to know so if you don't mind going back to that moment when you're doing a plank in a gym in north london yeah what is the first feeling that you get I have to preface this with the night before I'd had this horrible headache and I just felt restless and anxious and stressed I remember really clearly being like I don't feel good in my brain and body and I was um I was staying at my parents and then I'd got the train to London and was just like oh I got this weird headache in the back of my neck like right around in the back didn't think anything of it because I get I got headaches quite a lot um and then I arrived at the gym and was like like we've all had those days where you're at the gym going I mean I'd rather be anywhere else like this is really hard and it felt particularly difficult but i was in a mode of beating myself up so you're like come on we're doing this we're gonna do it so i arrived incredibly tired and we were doing the plank and then the closest thing to describe it is imagine an elastic band just snapping around your brain this like insane pressure um and i stopped and he was like where does it hurt and i said my head and And he was like, my trainer was like, that's not good.

28:53And then everything feels like a blur. I crawled to the loo and was just vomiting profusely with this unbearable headache. And in that moment, I knew I was being brain damaged. Something clicked. Tomorrow's world. I don't know. Someone somewhere had said, if you're throwing up and you have a headache, that's bad. That's really bad. So I started wiggling my fingers and toes. and I started going through all the lines from the show. And I just kept saying to myself, I'm an actor. Because I'd just got my dream job. So I just wanted to, you know. So I just kept saying this kind of mantra over and over and over and over again.

29:34And then someone, and I don't know who, because I was really coming in and out of consciousness, someone obviously heard me, called an ambulance. Someone else found my phone back in the day when your phone didn't need to be unlocked by your eyeballs. and they called my mom and they got me in an ambulance and then my parents by the time I'd got to hospital my parents walked past because I was in the hallway it was um very busy London hospital which at this point we're now at like on like a Saturday night and my parents walked past me because they didn't recognize me when you're in so much pain there's just and they were waiting to figure out what was wrong with me so they couldn't really give me any drugs so I was just in excruciating amounts of pain and then they put us in this little room um and the nurse on duty on the nurse on the night duty that came on her husband was a brain surgeon and she was like has anyone given you a brain scan because no one knew what was wrong no one they were like this girl's on drugs which is often happens if you're a young person and you're having a stroke or having a brain bleed of any kind people who assume it's drugs which my goodness and then I got rushed to a specialist hospital thank you so much for telling that story because I imagine it costs you something every time you tell it and you go back there I definitely go back there yes you then have another aneurysm yes so yeah I thought that I was doing really well and everything was brilliant and I was doing a terrible play on Broadway but I was living in New York.

31:13And I was having the time of my life. And this cute little studio apartment and everything was wonderful. And I was coming to the end of the show and the end of my SAG medical. Yeah. So SAG Screen Actors Guild, it's the union medical that you have when you're acting in America. Yes. And I was like, oh, I need a brain scan. Because at that point I was having a brain scan every six months. Because basically they saw, when they fixed the first one, they saw that I had a second aneurysm right because they often come in clusters or what we call mirror aneurysms which is basically when your brain is being formed it's one cell and there might be a weakness on one artery and as the cell grows and turns into the two sides of your brain that weakness is separated equally onto both sides so I had this one that ruptured and they were like there's this smaller one but it's too small to operate on so we're just going to keep an eye on it and it's going to be fine um and I went and got the brain scan and the doctors in America said hey lady we got to do something about this it's got like three times bigger in the last six months it's going to be a really quick operation it's going to be in and out in overnight that's it it's going to be totally fine giving really good hands my mom and dad flew over for it and I remember counting down with the anesthetic and I was just like this is I had just a terrible feeling and then the next thing I remember is them waking me up and having that fit that pain all over again because they had they were like we're gonna crack we it went wrong we have to crack we have to cut your head open and we have to have your permission and then I remember all I remember is I'm lying on the gurney and I can see my mum and dad like over there and I can just remember my mum's head nodding going say yes it had just gone wrong in surgery if you imagine like a bubble you've got your vein and then this is just like a the weakness as the blood pumps round turns into this little bubble that's filled with blood and as your blood pressure gets more that the pressure on that becomes so great so if it ruptures they fill it to simply stop at that so there's not blood blowing into your brain and I think they just filled it a bit too much so that caused a tear so then they had to cut my head open and clamp it and then that's a bit more secure but it was quite a big bleed and the only I have no memories of anything that I was I don't I didn't see any I didn't have any spiritual awakening or anything but my parents were waiting for me and they were just the doctors would just come down every half an hour going we think she's going to die no we think she's blind no we think she's going to be paralyzed no every half an hour they're just to work out what parts of my brain were going and how they were trying to save me and my mum says that she felt a bright light and she knew that everything was going to be okay and then they came down and said she's fine so that's pretty wild so I know this from Clemmie um whose initial recovery I was I was there for some of it she had to she was in a coma for 17 days and then had to relearn how to walk and talk did you have to relearn yeah so that that happened the first one not at all the second one when you're in america has stronger drugs i was an oxycontin and percocets way back before anyone knew that those words were bad there was a lot of pain medication speech and movement came but it was a process nothing like clemmy the biggest thing that happened to me with the second brain hemorrhage was i shut down emotionally right and it became this thing where i just couldn't look anyone in the eye when you have a brain injury you move around in the world and for me what happened after the first and specifically after the second I was just convinced that I had cheated death and I was meant to die.

35:41And that every day that was, I should be, that's all I could think about. So it was the opposite of like, I survived. I feel great. And it was this like, I'm, I'm not meant to be here. This is going to come and get me. And that like, it just, it just, that cuts you off from being able to engage with the outside world because you're walking around knowing that your body has failed you, your brain has failed you, this thing that you know to be where yourself, your perception of yourself lies has failed you and no one else can see it. so you've you become very sensitive and then i'll never forget we went to comic-con again like literally six weeks later i'm like promoting the show six weeks after the operation that you've just described is that yes okay so sorry i don't want to interrupt no no no at all so we're for anyone who's listening to this rather than watching on youtube my expression is one of shock and admiration in a way.

36:56It was helpful. Without my work, I don't know what I would have done. The repercussions that I had as a result of my brain injury are all things, hilariously, that I've only just fixed. That I was quite happy living with. Not happy, but you know, I can't be fine. Like it wasn't debilitating to the point where I can't walk or I can't speak or I used to think my ability to act had gone. Definitely don't have any maths now. And so we were promoting the show. We were at San Diego Comic-Con. It's wild. It's crazy. And I started getting a headache. And any time I got any kind of headache, I was like, that's it.

37:32It's happening. It's happening again. And I was getting this headache. And my publicist was like, right, we've got to go do this live interview with MTV. And I was like, I think I'm going to die. I think it's happening. And she was like, what do you say to that? And in my head, I was like, if I'm going to die, I'll do it on live TV. Like, let's go. This is, there is, there is no other option, which was after each, I was blessed that after each of my brain injuries, in my mind, there was no other option but to carry on. I was raised by a family that did not partake in pity. Self-pity was not on the table.

38:16It's not how we operated. and one of the deepest cuts of having the second brain hemorrhage was that I was like that's not very fair why did I have to have another one like that and that thought felt like going backwards gosh you must have lost faith in so lost trust in so much in myself Yes. That being the biggest issue. Yes. That's what it does. And is that why you've chosen recovery as a failure? Yes, because I didn't. I didn't do any of the things. I did not take care of myself. I did not give myself any grace. I did not give myself any encouragement or I didn't I didn't glean any courage from it I didn't I didn't give myself any kindness any everything was like you failed you like I remember calling David and Dan after the second one and being like lol have it again don't worry though don't write me out of the show I'm good I'm gonna be fine and they were you know sweet and lovely and kind and obviously like oh my god are you okay but in my mind i'm like that means that you don't think i can do my job and again we are talking about a time when there weren't a lot of young women in big shows hell there weren't a lot of shows this was the beginning of prestige tv not the beginning obviously sopranos was the beginning but like you know the the like tomorrow's world was the beginning love that reference loved that reference The baby in the water.

39:58Yes. Yeah.

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