Erin Doherty - ‘Lean Into Your Truth’

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1:09Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that treats all failure as data acquisition. Before we get onto the episode today, I just wanted to give you a quick reminder about my subscriber podcast, Failing with Friends, where my guest and I answer your questions and offer some advice on your failures too. This week, I'm joined by the actor Erin Doherty, And here's a taster of what you can expect. And I just hope that I get to offer that to other women or men, like whoever you are, like just lean into your truth. Do join in by following the link in the podcast notes where you can email me or look out for my monthly call outs on Instagram for quickfire questions.

1:53Erin Doherty grew up in Crawley, West Sussex, in the shadow of Gatwick Airport, where her father worked in air transportation and her mother was a doctor's receptionist. In fact, Doherty's early talent for football, she was scouted by Chelsea women, meant she might never have been an actor at all. It was her dad, who, sick of having to drive his daughter both to drama class and to football practice every Sunday, asked her to make a choice. Since then, her course was set. She ended up at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School and after graduating, her early parts on stage moved one theatre critic to describe her as having star wattage as bright as anything.

2:35Her big on-screen break came in 2019 when she was cast as Princess Anne in Netflix's The Crown. Now, after acclaimed performances in Chloe, a BBC Amazon thriller about a parasocial relationship, and the movie Firebrand, alongside Alicia Vikander and Jude Law, she returns to our screens in A Thousand Blows, a Disney Plus drama about the Victorian underground boxing scene in which Doherty plays the real-life Mary Carr, leader of an all-female criminal gang. She's also currently on stage at London's Garrick Theatre in Unicorn, a play written by Mike Bartlett, who, in a neat twist of fate, also wrote the first play she ever saw at the age of 19.

3:20I've always been quite socially anxious and insular, Doherty says, but I guess acting became a way I could express myself. I don't know what I would do without it. Erin Doherty, welcome to How to Fail. Thank you for having me. I'm really, really happy to be here. I'm happy you're here and you just told me that you are actually performing a matinee today of Unicorn. Yeah, that's happening. That's happening in a couple of hours, but we'll just bash this one out first. I'm really buzzed to be here though. I wouldn't have it any other way. Oh, that was so kind of you to say so. And I'm thrilled as well because I've been fangirling before we started recording over Chloe, which was the first thing I ever saw you in and is an amazing, amazing piece of television.

4:01But I wanted to end on that quote, that idea that you might be socially anxious, but acting has given you the confidence because I think sometimes there's a misapprehension that actors do it for attention. Yeah, and it has always kind of bugged me. And I suppose there are people out there who are just more socially adept than me. But yeah, for me, it's 100 % a form of escapism. And there's something really freeing about portraying someone else and expressing and experiencing those emotions through like the weird safety of a script. And if that wasn't there, I think I would just, I don't know I don't know how I'd get it out um so yeah it's always kind of been a a lifeboat for me in that sense so do you think every role that you've played has taught you something about who you are I think so I I'm a definite believer in parts finding the actor and someone being in a headspace and things cross their paths when they're ready to explore it And so there's definite kind of, it definitely correlates with where I'm at in my life, the characters that I choose to play at that moment in time and what I'm ready to explore.

5:16Yeah, and I do, you do kind of, once you've embodied someone for a year sometimes, which I did with Mary Carr on A Thousand Blows, they kind of, they stay with you and you get to really learn things from them and try things on for size and go, oh no, actually, I feel really good when I just say things how they are. Like it's a really gorgeous opportunity to just try things. And yeah, I love my job. Let's talk about Mary Carr in A Thousand Blows. So A Thousand Blows written by Peaky Blinders creator. What I love about Mary Carr, I mean, what a role. But the 40 Elephants, the criminal gang that she's part of, was a real criminal gang.

5:56Yeah, I had no idea that they even existed. So when the script came through in my emails, I was like, hold on a minute. Like this is based on real people. And so I went and did loads and loads of research. Yeah, I was just flabbergasted that no one had told this story before. But actually, when I spoke to Hannah and Stephen about it, Graham, they were like, yeah, that was like Stephen Knight was actually sitting on that story about the 40 elephants for a while before they brought Hezekiah Moscow to him. And he was like, I know exactly how I'm going to interweave these stories because he knew years back, I think, that he wanted to tell that story, but he just didn't have the right...

6:34machine, I suppose, to drive it home. But yeah, they're fascinating people. It's fascinating. And it's such a rich tapestry of London in that era. So Hezekiah, who you mentioned, turns up from Jamaica. He wants to be a lion tamer. He ends up a Thunderground boxer. But Mary Carr, I mean, were you just so thrilled when you got that role? I mean, you so deserve it. But explain that character for us. I mean, yeah, I was chomping at the bit to be a part of this series. But knowing that I could be this woman who on the page she's so grounded and just earthy and I just I I'd give my right arm to play someone like that so when I got it I was yeah over the moon there's not that much out there about her as a human being which was kind of freeing in a way which I loved so I kind of got the backbone of things she did like finding out they robbed Harrods she like kidnapped a kid so I kind of that created a backbone and then I was like oh okay well who psychologically would this woman be like in order to make these choices um yeah and it was an absolute gift of a role was it nice to act with your own accent yeah oh my god and it it took such a long time after the crown for people to be like oh so you're not like of a certain ilk um which was yeah I think all actors get it like when you just get pigeonholed when you first kind of break out and people go you're that person um so it takes a while to really break that mold and what did princess anne teach you you said that you take something from every role yeah princess anne what she gave me was this kind of resilience at just needing to be honest like she had just this thing about her where she wouldn't compromise um and now i found that really empowering like not in a I don't know it wasn't in a in a spiteful way but she was just adamant that when she was sat in front of someone she would give them the unvarnished truth and that's really empowering particularly as a woman but also from my lens of I've definitely grown up being a bit of a people pleaser so I've always kind of been tuned into how some things may be received whereas she just didn't buy into that and I've definitely taken a little slice of that with me which is so freeing and the hairspray do you know are you better at using hairspray now if i'm honest honestly like the smell of it for me brings back such strong memories of sitting in a chair for hours on end i don't do it anymore i'm a big fan of um dry shampoo that's my my closest link honestly i'm just lazy when it comes to it so no that's my kind of like in there but yeah it's a lot of hairspray i've got two more slightly weird questions before we get onto your failures Go on.

9:23One is, how did you feel when the Queen died? Odd. I was doing a play at the time. I was doing The Crucible at the National Theatre. And so everyone was talking about the big queue, like that was, people were queuing up for her funeral. So, and I remember we were actually in rehearsals when they were like, we're going to have to cancel or we had to push our press night because of this huge thing. And I just remember it in a way, because it had been so many years since being a part of that whole world I just kind of let it go so until that point I didn't realize how or maybe I'd forgotten how integral they are to our culture and how just how much people love this woman and quite rightly like I do like I look back at the things she has done for our country and who she kind of is as a human being I find her so brilliantly inspiring um but it took all it took all those years later to really kind of sit back and go oh wow like I got to be a part of this this show that is honoring this incredible woman essentially um but yeah I kind of grew up not really being aware of the royals like no one in my family is a royalist um so it was just you'd get the days off when someone was getting married and that was a result like that's all they really meant to me um so it was it was it was a really odd experience to kind of then years later be quite moved by this person that I've never known but you through process of osmosis you feel like you do have a relationship with this woman so it was quite a bizarre thing to grieve someone you've you've never met this must be so intense because of the way that you've spoken about how you prepare for roles it's like psychologically getting in tune with the part that you're playing.

11:13So psychologically you had got in tune with the Queen's daughter. Yeah. So that must be, yeah. It was really odd. I really felt like I had this kind of this link, which was odd as well because obviously at the age that I was portraying Princess Anne, there was a lot of friction there between them. So it was also, I suppose, it was quite therapeutic to work through that. And then sadly when she did pass, it kind of left me in a sense. And I know that past interviews I've read, you said that you'd never met Princess Anne. I just wondered if that's changed. Never. And honestly, if she's out there and willing, I would love it.

11:51I've not lost my admiration for who she is and what she represents and the way she's tread her path. I just think, yeah, more power to you. Well, I know she's a regular listener to House of Vila. I'm kidding. I don't know. I would love it. Wouldn't that be great? That would be so, yeah. And it was because of you. I said I had two weird questions. The second one is that we have something in common. Go on. We both used to play the trumpet. Yes! No way! I've never met anyone. Everyone thinks I'm a weirdo for playing the trumpet. I did so. It's cool. It's so cool. And it's so rare for women. Yeah.

12:25Why didn't we follow that through? Can you imagine? I know. There's one amazing female trumpeter, Alison Balsam, isn't there? I don't know. Yeah. But otherwise, it's... Yeah. So when did you take it up and when did you stop? It was basically, it was just like in school. I don't know if this was basically they were just like, right, we're doing like music lessons and you can pick an instrument. And my sister chose the clarinet and I was like, nah. I just wanted, I don't know, I was just gunning for that trumpet. I knew that I wanted to play the trumpet. I don't know why. I was just like, there's no other option here.

12:58I'm going for that trumpet. And it was only me who chose it. So I had like one-on-one lessons with this dude after school. But yeah, there just came a point. In all honesty, I just couldn't be asked to bring in the case every day. Yeah, it's heavy. Because I'd also, yeah, and I'd rock up to school. Like you'd play football before the school bell went off, before you went into class. And so it just messed with my flow because I'd have to put it down like when everyone put their bags to make the two goals. And I was like, what do I do? I can't put my trumpet there. Like what if someone knocks over my trumpet?

13:29So I just gave it up so I could play football at school in the mornings before I went in. I'm so glad we have that in common. Oh my God, that is like, that's the connection I never knew I needed. Actually, and our initials are the same, ED. Come on. Oh my gosh, what is this? I'm going to leave here today. Like I've just had a spiritual experience. I love it. Anyway, let's get onto your failures. So your first failure is musical theatre and drama school auditions. Yeah. So at the stage we're talking about, you've made the choice that you want to act rather than be a footballer. Yeah. drama school auditions tell me about this process it was really awful so basically i on the weekends when i was doing football i was also going to like a musical theater thing afterwards so i grew up doing musical theater um so for a long time i was like that's what i'm gonna do um so the first my first year out of sixth form i auditioned to all these musical theater colleges um and i just very quickly realized that I wasn't it wasn't the life for me like they're these people I have such admiration for the work that goes into what they do but I was looking at them like before like you'd have to go up and do a dance call and do a singing thing and I was just like so unavoidably awkward and just disarmed by my own nerves I was just like this is not there's no point in doing this because I'm not having any fun here and yeah so I didn't get in anywhere on that first year which was no surprise to me but it was equally it was still really heartbreaking because someone's telling you no um but yeah so then I went and did um I stayed on at my secondary school and did a year of working there as a PE technician and a drama technician and earned some money but by that time I'd made the decision that I was just going to go for drama schools um and I didn't get in anywhere that year but maybe like a couple of months after finding out that I didn't get in Guildford School of Acting I think just by chance or whatever they sent a letter to my mum's address being like we're doing this foundation course um and I went in an audition for that and got that and that was kind of the start of the snowball of the whole thing for me.

15:43Wow what do you think kept you going during that time of rejection? I think having no other option like I've always just been fascinated by people and I think from that first experience of going on the weekends and doing this musical theatre class and understanding that it's a way of expressing yourself I think it just became part of who I am and so there's never been another option like without being it's nothing to do with I will be successful at this thing it's just I I don't know how I get to I'm going to live my life without this in my like as a part of who I am so I think it was just no I have to so I'll just keep going and do those experiences now have they helped when you've been rejected in other situations hugely like in a way I've learned to really love rejection and really use it as a positive thing of when someone says no you have to lean in times 10 like I just think it's really given me that strength of spirit of going well if I decide to do something it doesn't necessarily matter if straight away no one else wants to jump on board but if I'm gonna commit then I will make it happen and eventually people will go oh yeah like I'll buy into that or yeah come over here and we'll let you do that over here like I think if you're not going to be your own cheerleader no one else is going to be so sometimes it just takes a couple of years for everyone to jump on board essentially.

17:19That also makes me think you have a very strong work ethic and yeah you're nodding does that come from your parents do you think I think so I think um I've always kind of grown up I've had such a and still do have such a beautiful relationship with my dad um and he he when I first was like I'm gonna try out for drama schools he was like you probably should go to uni like just to have this like back so he's very much been this person of like we would always talk about my next step my next step I've not questioned that you just you work and you work and you work until you get to where you want to be and he's kind of given me that beautiful gift of believing in what you're doing um and just yeah not giving up so your parents got divorced when you were young yeah yeah really young I was four it's it's again it's a gift of of really understanding people and relationships and not applying any immense pressure for everything to work out in in my own life because when you watch something break down and you've experienced it you kind of go all right like people can go but it doesn't mean they don't love you like it's still so it's offered me that which has been gosh that's beautiful yeah it's it's taken me a while to get there so wise yeah well I just think again I think I'm an inherently positive person like I'm constantly seeking out and I genuinely do believe it I feel like there's a lesson in everything whether you're ready to hear it and believe it it will get you eventually and you'll be like oh that's what I was supposed to take from that I just think that's the wonderful thing about life is that it's cyclical and you'll go on these circles until you receive what you're supposed to receive and then you'll move on yeah I could not agree more there is a lesson in everything and you're so right that sometimes the lesson isn't immediately apparent yeah and sometimes the lesson is just well I survived that so I was stronger than I think yeah which is amazing like what a gift to be like oh my gosh like and then because then you're gifted with compassion and empathy for seeing someone else and being like, whoa, you can recognize it.

19:29I feel like it's such a wonderful thing in a way to have experienced immense hurt and pain because it gives you just an awareness and a sensitivity to others. And what a wonderful thing to be able to sit in front of someone and go, are you okay? And genuinely ask that question and want to know how they're doing.

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21:09Okay, let's get on to your second failure, which is keeping friends, Erin. Yeah, I know. What a great one to choose. Thank you, because I'm fascinated by friendship. Me too. So tell me why you chose this one. I think for that reason, there's a bit of a taboo around it about like, well, if you can't keep friends, are you a good person? And that's been like my thing. again like something I've like grappled with is I've always just I don't know whether whether it's because I've I always grew up basically at school I never really committed to the idea of it so I always was like I'm gonna go to drama school I never liked any of the subjects that I was studying so I never really committed so I didn't gain those integral friendships that most people savor until they're blooming 80 years old like a lot of these friendships are formed at that moment in time and so I just never got that um and then when you become an actor you do a job and it's the most wonderful intense thing for like a year or a couple of months but then you move on and so these people enter your life but then they go again and always just kind of gone oh okay people can come and people can go but you don't need to like it's just not been a lesson of mine that you have to hold on and really nurture these things which I am like there's there's a sadness that I haven't gained that ability um but there's also something gorgeous about being in the present moment with someone and just diving in and then letting them go and then sending them a text every now and then being like I'm thinking of you or do you want to meet for a coffee like that's as far as it goes with me I don't have these like I don't I just don't have these people the one person I have is my sister so do you is it partly because do you ever feel overwhelmed at the idea of having to constantly communicate that's definitely a thing yeah I'm really bad at my phone like I think I think that feeds into it I really I'm just not that way inclined like I'm really bad at picking it up and text or if someone does text me I won't like read it and reply I'll like look at it and put it away I just don't I don't know what it is um so that's a tough one because again a lot of the people that I would stay in touch with or meet like don't live anywhere near me like because of all people are away doing a job in Morocco or whatever like so it's that's a big issue I guess what it is is I'm a perfectionist and so I hate the idea of being a really awful friend so I'm like right well I just won't commit to that and I'll be the person that they can meet for coffee every now and then but I don't have to put that label on it because then I'm under no pressure to be this shining beacon of hope for friendship.

23:59Like I just won't put myself under that stress. Yeah. So insightful. Yeah. I think that there are many different metrics to friendship and because it's friendship, we don't accord it enough space in our mental lives to give it a language. Yeah. So we do that with romantic love, but never really with platonic love. Yeah. And so there's this assumption that there is one way to be quote unquote a good friend yeah and being like good is moralizing language yes and actually it's about being true I think for me in friendship and I'm like you I think the most important metric I look for in my friends is generosity of spirit so that idea that we cannot see each other for months or I hate talking on the phone so we'll never have a phone call but I will send a text seven months after I last spoke to you being like I'm thinking of you I love that and when we do meet up we can just hit that relational depth really quickly yeah it doesn't there's no awkwardness and I've always loved that and I think because as well growing up I kind of did this summer school thing and so there would be people that I wouldn't see for a year but the minute that you were in the same room with them it's like no time had passed and I always just thought well this is brilliant like that's not yeah it doesn't take away from my love for this person but I'm just a very of the moment what am I doing now okay I'm here with you let's do this thing um I just yeah I just can't have that like continuous thing but like you say it doesn't necessarily equate to me loving that person any less we can be friends by the way we can be friends forever and never have to speak again yes that's my gift to you I love that honestly I'm there's this weird pressure of I don't know where it's come from I suppose it is just in our culture yeah of like keeping that up and keeping that communication up um but yeah I wonder also because of what you were saying about your parents divorce and understanding that love still exists even if you're not with someone all the time in a conventional way yeah can I ask how this plays out with romantic relationships I mean for me like I I love love I am a hopeless romantic it's everything but yeah it goes the opposite direction again I can see as I'm saying these things out loud I'm like oh god that's why I do that um I go 100 % in like my person is my person like I just I adore being in love and I adore nurturing this thing but I think that alongside my work my brain would explode if there's anything else aside from my family like I adore my sister but sometimes she'll she'll let me go for six months and she's like I got you like it's fine I know that you're doing this and this but yeah so romantic wise I'm all in like it's everything to me um but at the same time I have to really really work on that idea of people can come and go like I think it's it's a part of life is that sometimes people are for you at that moment in time but then you have to relinquish that and go okay well then it ran its course but I'm very very wholeheartedly into love.

27:10There's this line that keeps coming back to me from the first episode of A Thousand Blows uttered by Mary Carr that I can't get out of my head. And I know that she's talking about men, but it seems to me to be relevant in so many areas where she says, I am beyond men. And there's something about that that feels so apt for this conversation that you kind of exist beyond what you are being told is appropriate. Yeah. In terms of how to express your love as a friend or romantic partner. Does that resonate with you? Really, really. This is great. This is like therapy. That's the biggest compliment you've made me.

27:49Honestly, yeah, that's amazing. Oh my God, it's so true. And I think, yeah, it's kind of this weird belief that I've carried around of being an outsider. And so I've witnessed the social norms, but always, thank goodness, felt so much on the outside that in a weird way, I've never really felt the pressure of not buying into it. And so going, OK, I understand that people say that you're supposed to have this solid group of friends or, you know, like you're supposed to, I don't know, have these social heirs and graces. But actually, I've never felt so, I've just never felt the need to abide by them because I've not felt in the thick of life in a weird way.

28:36Like I have, it's such a weird thing to say out loud, but I've just kind of grown up with this outskirts outlook. Yeah. And I don't want to be making an inelegant leap now, but how does that play out with your sexual identity? huge yeah it took me a really really long time to finally get to the point where I was like oh I'm gay like but I think again because I kind of grew up doing the social thing of going okay well I'll I'll have a boyfriend and I'll do this thing and I never questioned it um knowing who I was in my heart of hearts in my soul it took me a really long time to I suppose no one in my life had shown me that that was an option so I just never applied it to myself so it took a while to really go oh this is this is something that I can have um which also kind of leans into the whole kind of people pleaser thing and I I kind of never really was ready to carve out that path for myself even though I always now looking back always knew that my relationships with men weren't satisfying in in that whole hearted way that I I wanted them to be um but yeah it took me a while to get there and now I am there I'm like just so adamant about being vocal about it because hopefully it may offer someone else that just that little outlook that it can be for them because that's all I needed.

30:11Yes. And how did you, what age were you when you felt you had got there? Because you're still so young. It took me, honestly, I was, how old was I? 24, 25? Before my first relationship with a woman. And yeah, as I say, it was mind blowing and it felt like I had come home. I was just like, wow, this is a part of who I am that I'd never got to meet. which was just so crazy. And again, like I wouldn't change it because it's really made me adore that part and really cherish it and really, and I just hope that I get to offer that to other women or men, like whoever you are, like just lean into your truth because there was something so monumental about that moment of going, whoa like this is me and just embracing it and not applying anything else to it there's I just think we all deserve that yeah so I just want to take a moment that was so beautifully put oh it's like coming home it really was moving oh I love that thank you for sharing that no not at all

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34:37Yeah. Or she left. She left. And you've never gotten over it. I know. I never have. Amy Smith. She was my best friend. I know, wherever she may be. So we were like besties. I've always been like a one-person type. That's just who I am. I can't be the six friends type of gal. So I grew up being best friends with Amy Smith. She was the one. We first went to, we found this football club, Crawley Wasps together and we went and we like she was the goalkeeper I was sent amid like we did everything together um but then we went to different secondary schools and it just died out which I think again is another thing of like it was just a moment of understanding that you can live in someone's pocket and adore the pants off them but then they can go and yeah I had to let go of my best friend it feels like your characters are friends too so that sort of um obsessive nature that you have where you're like i love this person i'm a one person person yeah i need to understand everything about them you apply to your characters i do yeah i do i fall in love with them yeah and my girlfriend will attest to this at the minute like i just the minute that anything comes into my sphere i'm like like the blinkers go on i don't like at the minute she's like what what are we doing on Sunday?

35:59And I'm like, absolutely, I don't know. She's like, she's trying to broaden my social circle. Wait, are you embodying Mary Carr at the moment or the character in Unicorn who's part of a throuple? I'm a bit of everything at the minute. So I think that's why my days off on Sundays, I'm like absolutely lying there on the sofa, just an absolute shell of anything. But like, yeah, the addiction and commitment to honing in on one person and wanting to do it justice and wanting to, it's the workaholic thing as well of just going, well, I can walk away from that knowing that I gave it everything I've got.

36:34And it's also something to do with, I don't know, being an artist, people are always going to have an opinion on something you did and you have to just accept it. But I can only accept it if I know I gave it everything because then I'm like, okay, well, then it just wasn't for them. But that was my all. But, yeah, so I think when characters come into my life, I have to give it all my body and soul and heart and guts and blood and everything. Because I'm like, this person has, for whatever reason, come into my life and I'm going to serve them as best I can. Because then you can let it go at the end of the job.

37:15So well expressed. Thank you. Not at all. Your final failure, we've touched on it a little, your final failure is big social gatherings. Yeah. So you have said that you like being part of a team. Yeah. Whether that's football or on stage or on set. Yeah. But that doesn't translate to a big social gathering. No. I'm awful, awful at them. Like even this weekend gone, like we were supposed to go to something on Sunday and I was just like, I can't, I can't do it. I just have an immense amount of anxiety about being in those types of environments. I don't know, like I love one-on-one. Like that's my thing.

37:51I think because I just want to be with you in this moment and have this chat. And I love really getting into the nitty gritty of what's going on in your life and then exploring something in my own. I just think I just crave that kind of communication. And you never get them in big social gatherings. It's very much just kind of like, how are you? What are you doing? It's just very surface. And I find it emotionally and physically so draining. and I don't get to walk away from it with anything I never feel. I'm always like, oh, I never really got to speak to that person or whatever. Like I just never feel like I gain anything from it.

38:31So I avoid it at all costs. It's really, really a problem. I think it sounds completely logical that you crave connection and the deepest connection you can have is one-on-one. Yeah. But it also makes sense of why maybe you like being on stage or filming because you are still doing your connection. Like you are able to offer this connection to a broad audience of people without it being surface. And that's the difference. Yeah. And it's not as exhausting. So then when you and that's the dream in a way, like it's not why you do it. But hopefully if you've done your job correctly, people will watch this thing and they'll find like through the screen or through the stage, they'll connect with this thing and you'll have offered them something.

39:21But I'm not as exhausted by the process. And then if someone wants to come up and chat like in the supermarket about something, then it's amazing because you're like, oh, wow, like we've got this thing that you've offered and it's hit something. But yeah, to physically do it in a room, I just, I get overwhelmed by the prospect. Do you think you would like being super, super famous? Like a sort of global... The face you're making is like you're about to throw up. No. Because I imagine that would be hell then, given how important that connection is. I think I'd have to lean in even more to like, I'd have to get better at my friendships and at carving out time of please I'd just be that person who would invite people around or I'd get them to invite me around or go and meet up.

40:13I would just have to make it happen more because I feel there's something really and the whole fame is a whole other subject that I'm like the whole thing baffles me and it makes me so uncomfortable because I just it's such an odd concept of people not knowing who you really are but kind of feeling like they have the ability to place these things on you and go oh you're this person oh you're this it's just such an it's just bizarre to me um but I think yeah if ever I did have to navigate that I'd I'd have to just get better at honing and nurturing friendships so it's not you wouldn't ever turn down a part because you were worried about the level of fame that will come with it no not again I think I would just be interested purely in the part and if it's like necessary and I'm completely if it speaks to me there's something weird that happens when you read a script and you're like I have to do this it's just it's one of my joys of the job is that weird aligning and that weird moment where you're like this is mine I'm I am going to be a part of this thing um so I would never I would never turn something down for fear of what it may mean in the future if something feels right in the moment I'm gonna jump on it but I think yeah I would just have to the thing is what's wonderful is that the longer you're in this industry, the more you meet people who are successful and you see them rocking it and you're like, oh, that's how you do that.

41:50And you just pick up little lessons along the way. And I, not like I've always loved her, but getting to see Olivia Colman just absolutely smash it. She's smashing life. She's smashing career. Like she's just doing everything as it should be done in my eyes. Like she just, she doesn't buy into any of the faff, but she loves her job enough to lean in. And I think that's all it is, is if you lean in, you do what you have to do, but ultimately you can still be a normal human being and be successful. You just have to really, really remain grounded. And, yeah, it's one of the great privileges of my life to watch her do it.

42:30And Stephen Graham, I guess, would be another one. Yeah. Who navigates that really well. He is, I think, one of the most incredible people I've ever met in my life. he honestly he's just he's got a heart of gold he's the most generous spirit him and hannah his wife who are they're both the producers on a thousand blows um they're just yeah two people who have entered my life and i'm like wow like i don't know who i'd be without you now like they're the people that come in and just change things and again as you say they kind of show you how to do it because he is so who he is whilst this he's like at the he's in the eye of the storm of this crazy incredible career but nothing's changed about him like he's rooted in why he does it and I think if you always come back to your why you'll be safe and he kind of he's driven that home for me oh Erin it's been such a pleasure to talk to you because I mean it almost sounds like Stephen and Hannah are your friends.

43:33I would call them my friends. And even they would say I'm really bad at responding. Okay. Yeah. But I kind of trust that. I kind of trust the bad responder because when you do respond, it's really heartfelt. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah. I can imagine a day when you are in your 80s and you're a dame. You're like Maggie Smith. That's what I imagine for you. And that's what I feel for you. And when that happens, if this is still going, I want you to come back. Hell yeah. Okay. I mean, we've got to come back and we've got to do the trumpet podcast, but you know, and then, and then I'll come back. Yeah. And then we'll do that.